Wrangler Went SWIMMING? (Battery Not Charging & Oil Pressure WARNING?)
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- This low-mile decked out 2010 Jeep Wrangler left the owner stranded...
Apparently the owner drove her Jeep through some DEEP water...repeatedly??
Shop says they tried 2 reman alternators and it's still NOT CHARGING the battery.
Also the OIL PRESSURE WARNING light comes on for no apparent reason...
They cleaned out water from a few of the bulk connectors, but that did not help.
Let's see if we can get to the bottom of these issues and recommend a repair.
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Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Another spot on call Ivan. Nicely done. I had a similar experience with a Dodge Ram 1500. Customer had tried replacing the alternator 3 times for a no charge issue. Asked me to replace it again? But before I did that, I checked the wiring. It was all good. Had the alternator bench tested. It too was fine. So, I made the call for a bad PCM. Let's just say that the customer was not happy about that when he argued till he was red in the face that the truck still runs and drives fine. From what I understand, he took his truck to 2 other shops, and they told him the same thing. He came back to my shop because we quoted him the best price. I refused to do the job because of his overly aggressive attitude.
You definitely don't need customers like that 😝
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I feel bad for those people that got burned by shady shops and such. And I can understand why some people maybe apprehensive about trying a new shop or mechanic. But when someone comes at you with a huge chip on their shoulder for no reason? It's good luck somewhere else time.
We don't really talk much about agressive customers, however they do exist and from time to time you need to fire them. While in this to make money, you don't need to take that.
Customers like that clearly know too much - but not enough to understand how it works! The alternator should be a standalone system, but that is no longer the case....
Bro refuse the job😂
I’m in awe with the lack of parts availability. That made this close to a “parts”car.
This is the worst I’ve seen “obsolete” in 50 years in the business.
But I will admit to installing an external VR on more than one worn out Chrysler that wasn’t worth much.
Nice work Ivan. Who would have thought there would be so much interest in watching someone fix a car.
I’m a PHAD junkie too.
Congratulations on reaching the 200k plateau for subscribers, Ivan!
The failed charging thing became such a headache for me that I resorted to selling customers a $30 aftermarket external regulator, you know like cars used to have back in the day. 10 times cheaper than an unobtanium ECU and works like a champ!
Wow. Simple idea but not thought of very often.
@@johnwhan7288 Keeps the battery charged, but often does nothing for the warning lamp which on Dodge vehicles I *believe* is controlled by the ECU and not the alternator itself like on other cars. I suppose you could locate the wire coming from the dash and route that to the new regulator, but most people opt to ignore the light as long as they know it's charging again to avoid the extra cost. it's tough out there...
Wouldn't work in this case. Usually the ecu idles up to facitiate the extra load from the alternator. It didn't do it if you apply the load externally. If you throw an external regulator on, the car will just randomly stall/shudder.
@@tschuuuls486 you’re seeing the engine stall in this video because he slammed the field (rotor) with full battery voltage, meaning the alternator went directly to full output in an instant without passing go or collecting $200. In reality this is not what regulators do, internal or external. The output ramps up over time, so the engine has time to respond. None of the ~30ish or so vehicles I have installed an external regulator on have had any concerns with stalls, empirical proof that it works.
@@nickolaswilliams935 interesting that the ecu can react to the external load. Didn't think it would react reliably, but then I haven't tried adding external loads to one :D
It's a Jeep thing! Spot-on diagnostic, Ivan! Just because it's an all-terrain Jeep, don't take it to the water - too many connectors to develop green crusties that cause mind blowing faults.
The only thing worse than swimming, is swimming in salt water! Waaaaaay more corrosive and when power is involved it is accelerated! I had an 89 XJ (12 years old at the time) that I crossed a huge saltwater puddle with (over a foot deep) the next day the Crank Position Sensor failed. Not the connection, the sensor. It was the only sensor under water. Coincidence? I think not! Great diag, Ivan! 👍
It's a nice feature Chrysler gives in checking the field control duty cycle under functional tests of the scan tool too. Just plug in a test light with a real bulb (not many techs have those anymore but should) and ramp up the percentage of the duty cycle and watch the light brighten and if not, check wiring and pin fitment and if good there the PCM driver is the only thing left. Good thing is a lot of module rebuilders can replace that driver among others and save programming if you've got a couple of days to wait.
And then there's those that don't worry about the charge light and CEL and just switch voltage to that control terminal. Works fine since the alternator is internally regulated. I probably wouldn't do that for a customer though.
Good call on the PCM. Unfortunately, since 2000, they are no longer Jeeps like the old Jeeps. Testing the charging system with an external voltage regulator also would have condemned the PCM. The computer should have been installed in the passenger compartment where it's safer and drier than underhood. Ya, I know, it's cheaper to install it under the hood with less wiring. The results have shown what happens.
Good one Ivan. With that much underhood mud, this Jeep may be back soon with more problems.
They were still JEEP until the 4.0 Liter was phased out, the Wrangler was redesigned, and the Cherokee became the Liberty in 2002. But of course, I understand - the 2000-2001 4.0 Liter equipped models with the infamous 0331 head that enjoyed cracking were somewhat troublesome. Although it is funny, for what I once thought that the Cherokee was a relatively spacious SUV, in moderns standards, I find even the 2004 Grand Cherokee to be tiny (I was in one recently, the headroom was quite low!) How we change over time, and expectations grow. NOW, they're all turds - avoid any Chrysler product like the plague, followed by Ford.
I'm amazed at how Ivan always makes it look so easy😅...
Love from Nigeria
I took my 87 Chevy Silverado Stepside swimming all the time-Snorkel Air supply and electric fans- and never had one problem. I beat the crap out of that truck, and it never let me down other than getting stuck in deep mud a few times.
I remember back at the Badlands in Attica, Indiana sometime in 2007, someone with a brand new Wrangler drove through a puddle - a literal puddle, not a stream, creek, or enormous rut - and hydrolocked their engine. Popped a rod through the block on their attempt to restart. And I have a feeling the damage wasn't covered under warranty because they were off-road. TRAIL RATED!
AMAZING 😆
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Note for the wise - never attempt to restart if your engine dies after driving through any level of water without further inspection!
Good to see you again Ivan! 😊
Hi Ivan, another good call. Many thanks from UK.
Thanks Ivan!
Great fast and efficient diag, Thanks for sharing!
Nice. There's an older dude on the Iatn that has external VR solutions for Mopar pcm controlled alternators if/when a new one is not available or cost prohibitive. He says there's 2 kinds or alternators they used, A or B, and different solutions for each.
Always impressed with you Ivan! Keep up the good work!!
Thank you Ivan! Great that you can reliably call these modules.
Good job Ivan.
Good job Ivan! 😃👍
It's good that you do the follow ups, so we know if you got it right!
Love watching your videos.
Thanks for your support! :)
If you want to go out and do all the crazy adventure Jeep stuff. At the very least buy one before they were bought out by Stellantis ( '05 or older ) that will greatly increase your chances of survival. Plus you get the old 4.0 L workhorse. The newer Jeeps, at least from factory, are mostly window dressing. Ivan should agree, the older ones are built a little more rugged.
Nice call on the pcm Ivan. Definitely pretty straightforward with the right tools and know how. As for the jeep going swimming most people aren’t smart enough to do the necessary preparations for fording deep water they just see videos online and think I can do that too 😂
Had a 74 CJ 5 we would take spray undercoating and coat the distributor wires etc. and then but an exhaust up the front pillar I think they called it snorkel. Was pretty good in deep puddles but still would go through voltage regulators and alternators etc. we would carry xtras remember replacing them in the field👍
Ivan, AWESOME diagnoses fast and to the point/accurate 100% never get tiered watching ur videos brother what a blessing to people with this profession to watch and learn specially to young guys who want to be good in diagnosing thanks for ur time. cheeeeers
Well done, Ivan! "Another one bites the dust!" 👏👏👏👍👍👍
Excellent diag. I had similar case study with a ram 1500. Customer installed 3 alternators and still no charge. I installed a pcm and corrected the issue. I normally get pcms from flagship1.
Weather packs are designed to keep moisture out, not be submerged! Same for the PCM case seal. This is also why I tell people I don't recommend pressure washing under the hood. Way back in the mid 80s, Chrysler used what was called a power module and logic module for MPI turbo cars. The logic ECM was inside the car and protected. ( Carb cars only had 1 module under hood in the airstream) The power module, which was underhood, was mounted BEFORE the air filter and had the engine air intake duct running through it to cool the high current internal relays and transistors. What would sometimes happen was during a driving rain storm at highway speed and under acceleration, the power module would start to ingest too much water on some models and fail, causing stalling, and then a crank no start. I recall seeing them soaked in water, ( actually recall removing 1 power module on an 86 Daytona and dumping about a Dixie cup of water out of it) and water pooled in the bottom of the airbox. The filter saved the engine, but the power module relied on the goopy resin to seal the board. Over time that resin would melt and form cracks, so water could get in. Just a couple fun facts from back in the day. To Jeep owners today, no, it's not a submarine, sorry!
I feel like I will never hit the level and range of skills and abilities of this man. Always learning from your vids... Thank you thank you!
Wow awsome job ivan this was some deja vu .I worked on a jeep that had an exact same failure and they ended up taking it to a dealer to trade it in. The theory i had on the one i worked on is that the og alternator shorted n burnt out the pcm. I couldnt test that because they didnt have the og alternator they had replaced it 3 times before bringing it in for diag and already turned in the core.
Way to go! Analyze and advise.... It's hard to accept that a new oil pressure switch was bad - but it happens! Same with ECM, it should not control the alternator, but it does!!!
Nice fix man! Jeeps and Cryslers have regulators inside ECM , so if alternator shorts internally it takes out ECM.
You’re absolutely correct about Chrysler pcm’s are problematic. Great call!! Thanks Ivan!!
Hello Ivan great video as USA I was under the impression like Sandmansa customer that if the vehicle is running without problem the pcm was 💯 good with this video I don’t think so anymore.
Thanks Ivan happy new year.
Doctor Ivan;
Another inspiring video!
From your videos, l hate to think how more complex an electric vehicle must be.
Im convinced, l would never buy am electric car where salt is used for ice-melt brining on the dreaded crusties. Yikes!
✌️
My sons 2003 Pontiac had a similar problem. He went through about 3 alternators before he junked it.
The charging issue with dodge jeep trucks has been an ongoing issue with the PCM since they started running the regulator through it. You don't have any thing to fear by calling the pcm if you have put alternators in and dont charge its more often than not the computer that is the problem not the alternator there's lots of info on how to use an old style voltage regulator to get it charging again and not have to spend 100s of dollars on a pcm that is perfectly fine other than the voltage regulator
It seems that allot of mechanics on YT always have problems with rebuilt alternators and reccomend the gold models $$$(like napa) top of the line to avoid issues on the cheap
@@nickmalone3143 for sure ironically they are all junk had just as many problems with the gold as the cheaper ones just not on camera Infront of everyone. There are some components that you have to be wary about but starters alternators ehhh what is so special about the gold compared to the others? Only so much inside one of those and what is there some fancy brushes in the gold one? 🙄 Sometimes it is install what they can afford and as long as you have done your job and set the customer expectations correctly they will always be satisfied with what they have been able to get for the money they have
I just go on Rockauto and get OEM or Denso electrical components. Sometimes it takes a week to get, but sure beats getting a comeback! 😉
Agreed going through deep water or mud all the time and taking no extra precautions or doing aftercare leads to many issues. Same with companies who love to put the pcm and other modules right on the floor under passenger side carpets. Wet shoes and boot and a little leak into the harness leads to a world of frustration. I like my Mopar stuff but you are spot on the ecu they get hot and moisture where they put them. The jeeps are always by heat sources and water, the vans put them down under the bumper to catch all the salt and water too. Nice job.
Or GM who put PCMs in the lower front fenders
Yep they are right there with Chrysler lower bumpers and fenders are a curse in the midwest@@Dirtyharry70585
200k wow !
This is why I don't do water crossings in my 2001 Nissan R50 Pathfinder 5-speed 4X4. Even with a lift, and a snorkel just simply ain't enough I'm just saying. Great work on the diag Ivan👨🔧
Chris.
A scope is a must
Happy ending made by you!
The glare , you go so fast I can’t follow . Lol
I remember reading somewhere in Chrysler service info, that the 8.something volts on the sense wire is expected because of the internal circuitry. Alternator and coil drivers seem to be the common failures of those Chrysler pcms.
Nice house. Nice Jeep. 'Murica
Vehicle swimming is so much fun....doorstep to water to fishing for dinner, to sun bathing to doorstep without getting your feet wet. Why I bought a DUKW decades after using 1 in the Military. A snorkel will never count for true waterproof of the entire vehicle. Rolls Royce B series engines were a good start.
I miss the good old days of 10 years ago, when they just used a '1 wire' alternator. Worked fine in keeping the battery full. Auto companies have fallen for the 'why don't we do this?' mentality of their engineers in over complicating things that should be simple.
Nice work Ivan! Jeeps need to be built to get a little wet.
This one got REALLY WET 😂
AllData is a MUST....
Absolutely!!
Irony...this is the kind of thing that happened to get me watching your channel and others to BEGIN with. in my case, a tech newbie goof blew a fusible link in the alternator top wire...and none of us but a co worker of mine even KNEW they were still using them :P we all thought the goof had fried the computer :P even a DEALERSHIP didn't know. the jeep turned out to have mechanical problems that were a bigger priority, and more expensive.
And that's why I like my older jeeps!
Great video! So do you still get a 5v reference at the MAF sensor?
I see this alot but on the caravans. I always install a in line fuse in the control wire. I see that the regulator shorts out and damage the driver for the alternator
Great idea!
That's what happened to my mothers old Toyota Corolla when my mother decided that she would take it for a swim 9 1/2 years ago,I had to ordered a used ECU for it because the old one was ruined !
Ah well, a Jeep that can't do terrain driving, I also saw on a German site that a Porsche Boxter needed a special engine to use it on tracks (expensive factory option, of course). Nothing surprises me anymore.
Eric “I do cars” import a part I believe does modules
Lol it's a jeep thing lol. Pcms aren't known for reliability for that case. But really spot on fix!! Good call on the pcm. Now hope the customer learned lesson not to go swimming lol
It is amazing how many people do not use OEM for things like sensors. It seems to cost more in the long run when they have to buy the OEM anyways when the aftermarket trash does not work anyways.
Yeah, especially since many instances OE is less expensive or real close.
I keep telling them over and over again 😂
I agree with you, but the problem is what to do when OEM is No Longer Available. In this case the PCM could be repaired. The Oil Light could have an aftermarket Oil Pressure Gauge either mechanical or electrical with an adjustable oil pressure switch and a light. That way you have positive pressure readings, and with the OPLIGHT the switch can be adjusted to have the light come at a specific pressure you can adjust it to. I had a Morosso adjustable set up on an older truck that worked great.
@@mikechiodetti4482 I have mechanical oil pressure gauges installed in both my older trucks... Not taking any chances!
I had this issue with a dodge van 2015
I had one that the tip prevented the pcm from charging
Nice video Even knowing you make the call to replace the ecm in this case I would be wondering what else water damage to other components could takeout the replacement,be nice to know what circuit or circuits they repaired. Happy New Year by the way how’s that heat pump ? CHEERS
Heat pump is pumping as designed 🙂👌
Excellent video. Could you not also just put a test light on pcm input and use scan tool to command cycle and see if pcm gives command by light flashing ?
Those "duty cycle" or computer controlled voltage regulated alternators seem to be more trouble than they are worth. Seems that the internal regulated versions have way less failures.
No bonus footage, dang 😕 😢 😊
👍👍👍
The stall problem is a Chrysler thing. Pcm freaks out when the alternater current spikes. Iv seen audio systems hit hard enough to spoke the amps on the alt and it stall
Also the Russian fix for this jeep would be install a external voltage regulator
👍
For the Reason that U know and understand circuit boards, If you took a computer apart, and separated a circuit board, and U examined it, carefully, you might find and discover one or two soldered connection points that "Look funny." Connected to resistors/diodes, whatever. If you desoldered and re soldered, replacing the cheap questionable items, AT the Points were the soldered connections did not look "right," then, presto, that computer would be "Refirbed." (Of course, you can't give a guarantee for such an effort, but, if you get a chance, try it. I think you will be surprised......most of the stuff on a circut board is fine, no matter how old. Key is to discover the one or two failure points. Bring back points distributors! Great video!
Unfortunately many computers are glued and potted so that makes it very difficult...
O2 sensor could be grounding out and grounding may now power but not all the time which would make sense if the O2 sensor was shorting out and it was constantly pulling power just an idea
I don't drive any of 4 x 4 in water holes that reach the rocker arms. Especially when the computers are in engine bay or underbody.
The worst problem with that Wrangler is the angry bird grill.
Episode 1. He will be chasing ghosts in that thing for years to come.
Just a suggestion for the shiny screen on your computer, cut a piece of clear non shiny (flat) self backed plastic film over the screen. This can work well for your computer and can work for any computer that does NOT use a touch screen.
Mine is a touch screen 😅
Ivan question did you connect the 1 amp (test ligth) form battery + to the sensor wire ? In order to make the duty cycle?
Thank you sir
Yes to the COMMAND wire to power up the field coil in the alternator 👍
What Mopar guys have been doing since the '80s: Lash up a 70's style "flat pack" external regulator. $15, and 15 minutes. Unbelievably easy.
It's a common issue. No charge even with a new alternator. I usually call ecu and pcm.
Nice video and diagnosis. I’m impressed that the PCM repair worked on the first go around. 😂
I guess if you want a real off road vehicle you have to have a mechanical diesel engine with a snorkel so you can push water over the hood.
My Suzuki 4x4 has pushed water over the hood on 3 occasions... Good thing the ECM is under the glove box 😅
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I'm surprised to read that, Ivan. I always thought you took good care of your XL-7.
have you ever bypassed the computer and installed external regulator on any of them where they don't have to buy computer
Have a little old lady customer. She had a Chrysler Concord she was like that damn tea kettle light keeps coming on. For sure needed her to show me what light bud I'll be damned it was a tea kettle. It was full of oil and ended up being a pressure switch. I
My nephew also got lucky... The plastic connector broke off due to brittleness from just too many heat cycles 😂
Give. Me a single wire alternator. With adjustable regulator. I’m 63. Love old school cars
Modern cars are overcomplicated. There's way too many modules, and many are in the hot engine bay. I've wondered why they dont put a central computer in the trunk with all modules attached. They can also make a universal module for each year, which would work in all manufacturers' vehicles and just require separate programming. It's rather archaic the way it's done today.
A modern car can have 30+ modules in it, absolutely crazy
Gotta love jeep's after all it just emptied every pocket again 🤣🤣
I would have been tempted to rig up a cheap chinese PCB that has a simple voltage sensor and shut of switch with a variable PWM output.. There's a lot of cheap stuff out there for DIY projects. :)
I wonder why the battery light didn’t showed in the dash board since was not charging.?
Because Chrysler lol
*The horrid Chrysler junk car repair vids. Love it*
If you could see the original alternator I bet that would explain everything.
I don't understand how hard it is to rebuild starters and alternators. The Amish do it. I rebuilt alternators for myself. It's sad that a place that's set up to perform such tasks can't do it well.
It is to do with how much you are prepared to do, If you don’t want to do a lot, your work won’t last more than three months on a good year. BUT, there’s always been a market for cheap kit for the low end car dealers. Guaranteed till you get round the corner !
There are good guys who can do this properly. For this kind of stuff you don’t need to go to parts suppliers, you need to find the local trade shop that does this. You don’t want to pay a middleman for parts refurb.
There was nothin wrong with any of the alternators, it was a PCM problem. The days of a 1 wire alternator are long gone, PCM has too much to control.
What about that green corrosion on the connectors, definitely needs to be cleaned, or it will create problems on the future.
Probably the original alternator died and took out the driver circuit in the pcm. I doubt moisture was inside the pcm, just a fried driver transistor.
They got a little carried away with the dielectric grease. I never believed the whole "the pins will scratch off the grease and make a good connection" thought process.
If the fitment is good, the grease gets out of the way but seals against water and oxygen. If the fitment isn't good, it's just acting like an insulator. I use the stuff all the time, especially when crimping terminals onto wire or cable. Never had a problem
@@major__kong right, that requires a tight pin fitment, and this is a jeep!
My brother has drowned 3 engines and 2 transmissions! They just keep doing it. He is
Not the only one.🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Just wait till people start taking these new hybrid plug in jeeps swimming 😂
JEEP: Junk Experiencing Expensive Problems 😂🤦♂️😂
Why do they do it I never know.
I'm not much of an off-roader, but before you ford streams and such, surely someone makes kits and parts that waterproof the electrical system to avoid exactly this problem, no?
No PCMs for a 2010 vehicle, either they are reliable and too many are still on the road and not enough have been junked, or they got swallowed up because of unreliability and high used prices had people bringing vehicles back that would have been junked.
I guess it's too much to ask that Chrysler provide some resources to help repair or at least help with some kind of support after all it's not like it's 40 years old, it's not even 15 and you're on your own
What the name of your scan tool?
SEE DESCRIPTION
12:42 I know customer has bigger problems, but that orange oil filter 😢
Did fram upgrade their build quality for their standard filters or they still using cardboard endcaps?
And I don't see that extra truck bed liner grip at the end of that filter canister, hmmmmm