Crossfire Can't CRANK? (Part 1 - Beached Whale for a YEAR?)
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- For this weekend's "Beached Whale Special" we have a Euro/Domestic cross-breed: a 2004 Chrysler Crossfire towed all the way from Indiana...10 hours away!
It has been off the road for over a YEAR, ever since in intermittently stalled out, got the battery replaced at a shop, and turned into a complete NO CRANK...
Several modules are offline, but the engine computer is online, and not setting ANY codes!
Weird...
Let's see if the engine can even turn over and go from there. Get out the popcorn!
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Enjoy!
Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
NAG1 transmission. If the transmission control module is not online then that is a no-crank. The neutral safety is the same as the transmission fluid temperature line, the line is grounded when not in gear (reverse or any forward gear gives temperature reading). Check fuses and then TCM and ABS powers and grounds, they might share the same fuse. Brake signal might come from ABS while the neutral safety signal would certainly come from the TCM on a NAG1 so if the TCM is offline you get no-crank even if the ECM is on. The harness connector on the transmission could be leaking causing transmission fluid up the harness and into the TCM. ATF+4 is designed to keep some of the metallic clutch wear material in suspension while the filter catches larger pieces, so ATF+4 might be fairly non-conductive when new but will be much more damaging to electronics when used. So if its wet with oil, the TCM may be fried. There is a chance you can clean the PCB and case of all stray particles and it will just come back to life but it is probably toast if used ATF got in there.
Yeah the nag1 was kinda a bear to deal with. Isn’t it the 722.6 Mercedes? If not it’s painfully similar. Probably comes standard with a burnt c clutch
@@marknaravas318 yeah, nag1 is basically a 722.6 transmission. There are different variants with slightly different gearing like w5a580, w5a380 etc. They are a workhorse that is actually pretty easy to service, and if you have the right equipment they can be easy to rebuild.
Ivan... thanks for another head scratching issue. Appreciate your step-by-step diagnostic approach as a great learning tool for technicians.
check for oil in the TCM connector. Oil wick up all the way to the TCM connector when the transmission connector orings fail.
I left one of my cars for short to ground 10 days. In the 11th day I go to the shop, found and fixed myself for an hour. With a single test lamp and wiring diagram. And all because of you and your clips I've watched. Well basically I've watched every single clip you've made. Before you I didn't know zero about electrical ...
Thank you.
I enjoy all of your repair content. You have a great scientific approach to gain the best result and you are always striving to improve, and you have! I have been a repair technician since the 1980’s for just about anything electronic or mechanical, or both. Keep up the great work.
9:44 - Let's touch starter motor. That's when you hope that the gearbox actually is in neutral or park so that the issue isn't that the gear shifter linkage is out of sync and the car starts to take a tour all by itself in the neighborhood.
I'm sure, (not at all) that the e-break was set. If not, mind warehouse will add it to their clips of people running after cars.
Looks like a similar problem I had my 2007 Pacifica. Turns out 4 ground wires bundled together and bolted down to the chassis directly under the fuse box had ripped loose.
We had a 1990 model Holden VN Commodore which we got off our auntie 25. Years ago which ran the 3.8 litre Buick LN3 engine from the 1980's in its.
It had a crank no start issue which was caused by the strain on the wiring harness connector on the crank angle sensor which over time caused a high resistance join within the crank angle sensor while the engine was warm but it would start after the engine has cooled down.
Replacing the crank angle sensor fixed the problem & I think GM & Holden fixed it up by the 3.8 litre Buick L36 engine which my dad has in his 2000 model Holden VX Commodore
Wht would I do next? I would be looking at the transmission module. I suspect that the two wire CAN bus is not doing well, possibly because the transmission module is having a moment. Not being able to get out of park is a big, big clue. You can't talk to the module, the module isn't doing anything useful, and could possibly be a contributor to the no-start.
Ivan.. I think it would be interesting if you did a video on how you organize all your scope gear-- wires, attenuators, pressure transducers and even test lights, etc.. How do you keep track of all that stuff? How do you have it organized? Is it in a bag or do you have a mobile tool box? or maybe just some of the factory cases, etc.. and even the scope itself and multimeters; not to mention tools. I've been building my kit and I'm just trying to see what the best options are for keeping track of all this stuff and yet still keeping it mobile. I found a cheap 5 zipper pouch roll up tool bag that seems to be useful; Also I might throw it all into a rifle carry pouch with all the exterior "tactical" pockets, etc.. Not sure yet what I'm going to ultimately use.. I would love to see a quick video of how you have your stuff organized. Right now mine is just all in a cardboard box. :)
Ziploc bags and clear plastic boxes with snap lids work perfectly. Plus a small 4 drawer toolbox that slides into the back of my SUV with all the hand tools. Only factory case is for the Verus, which is also packed with extra electronics gear 😊
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Nice.. makes sense: so you can SEE everything.
Pretty cool.
I'd probably want to figure out the tcm so it can shift, and enable the starter.
The crank no start - if the ecm is enabling the fuel pump while cranking, that might tell me it's happy with what it's seeing from the crank sensor, if I didn't have a scope handy.
When you first said it came from Indiana I immediately thought crusty grounds from the salt and sandy roads from winters. He really wants his car fixed
I’d check for power and coms at the other modules. Especially TCM
Nice video on another beached whale.
I definitely would look at tcm and the connector on transmission. Those like to leak and the atf will wick up to the tcm in passenger foot well. I had that on a C230 Compressor coupe.
Boss radio... You know this car is a nugget.
Odd that it fired up and didnt stop straight away, i thought the module was on holiday lol :-D
Ivan can entertain and educate simultaneously, and for him to do this without any measurable contribution from my side makes it even a better act. thank you ivan for what you do. (Following from northern iraq since ≈2019 😁)
A awhile back I had this same issue with it not shifting on my 2002 Acura MDX.. Little trouble shooting and I found that it was just the brake switch on the brake pedal. Found one online for ^7 dollen new (free ship).. It's been working good so far, for a few months now. OEM is like 70 dollen; so I guess we'll see how long this aftermarket junker lasts. :) It's simple enough that I think it should be a fairly good copy. (I'm only 2 mins into the video).
On my MDX I fixed this with a simple brake switch, but you said your brake lights are working and that the shifter has it's own module along with the transmission module. I think I'd be checking power and grounds on those next. The fact that there are no codes is suspicious though and might be the ECM. Definitely another hour needs to be approved by the customer. :) could be a long ways to go yet.
Wow, towed all the way from Indiana! That's high praise indeed! BTW, you checked all of the inputs to the pulse module, but I didn't see you check the output to the violet and white wire. Seems like the pulse module is possibly bad, among other things.
That car looks pretty much identical to my SLK! If it’s electrically any similar, I might have some tips. If it has one, the K40 relay module often gets super iffy. The ECU also likes to blow some components, though that usually causes crank-no-start and PCM communication issues. Not sure about the automatic though, I’m only familiar with the manual!
You also pretty much need a Star Diagnostics scanner on the actual Mercedes, codes often don’t show up on more universal scanners.
They're the same car. Chrysler only designed the body. Everything else is an SLK
that thing is pretty much a mercedes sl , mb 242 engine just crappier , front sam may be problem ,check for rodent damage of wiring . check bulk head connector at trans , will leak and have trans fluid in pins and will cause weird stuff to happen ,like no starts, erratic shift concerns , wont come out of gear .. and i would check wiring at crank position , check harness around engine and injectors / coils , for loose / bad grounds or chewed wires .
I'm liking my '65 Corvair more and more. Electrical system has about eight fuses! Eight.
My old Yamaha bikes have 4 fuses each. 65 Honda S90 has ONE 😅
My next check would be if the junkyard has room for it in their lot.
🤣
they usually have several rows dedicated to Dodges so there might be a spot lol
PHAD scrapped one last week..only because the owner gave up. One scrap per year is enough. Ivan saves these cars! they should be saved.
@@pootthatbak2578 its a really cool ride, just needs to get a gen 4 HCI 5.3 and 6 speed to be worth keeping lol
Those were basically made from the previous-generation Mercedes C-running gear than what Mercedes was offering at the time. Even so, nice cars overall. As for "no-crank", they have a "SKREEM" security module that gets flaky and can intermittently keep the car from cranking.
I would concentrate on the shiftlock problem, and establish if the trans module is sending out any canbus messages. Definitely remove that stereo whilst your testing, just incase as its playing up like it has insufficient power
Aftermarket stereo has damaged the wiring harness to the transmission?
I have had aftermarket stereos interfere with canbus message, and csrnrefuse to start, had to disconnect a wire and all functions returned, the noise it wad making in the video was like it was contsantly reseting. On first power up the spit the cd out
Thanks Ivan!
I’m guessing it’s something to do with a bad TCM, or something communicating into it (such as the shift lever position sensor)
I'd be looking at powers and grounds for the TCM and ABS. You had one problem with the battery to engine block ground, how many more bad grounds are left.
Until the TCM is online that car is not going anywhere. I would start there.
Well this i part 1 which means this video should be good
I’d check the Tom for powers and grounds and communication line with Pico if powers and grounds are good. Car ran seemingly fine which tells me crank and cam sensors are likely working. My guess currently is TCM is causing the road block.
Had a chrysler 300 couldnt move the auto shifter in the center console. Inspected all parts in the complicated shifter handle base, and found a tiny pink plastic molded part that broke and lost a very tiny spring. Redrilled the plastic part, inserted the spring and the shifter worked
Woo Hoo, another PHAD video. 💖
I wonder if the aftermarket radio is to blame. I can't remember the year of this car, but if it's one of those that requires a CAN bus adapter to get "key on" power they can send some funny signals down the CAN bus if they're the wrong one or cheaply made. Great work Ivan, always look forward to your videos.
As for the starter not working well the second time - I wouldn't be surprised if it's in need for some lubrication since the mechanism could be sticky and not move freely when the solenoid is pulling. Or just a new starter, erratic starter behavior is the first signs of a starter on its last legs or suffering from corrosion.
And as I noted in another post - that aftermarket radio could be the culprit, you don't know if it has damaged some harness or if it was installed in a wonky way pulling power from the transmission harness.
You lube your started regularly? Lol
Sometimes the traces in the shifter get dirty from spilt drinks and dirt and it doesn't know what gear it's in...but generally there's circles around all the selections (based off jeep but still Chrysler junk)
i would go to the shift lever assembly next because it is tied into the tranny module and the illumination module and brake and traction control, which are not communicating, for direction.
As I have found out recently if a module has no comms the problem is most likely to be the culprit (TCM) in this case Cheers waiting on the part 2 to find out.
I jumped power to the TCM in the relay control module in the RCM. The solenoid in the RCM will engage, but would not conduct current across it to power the TCM. I replaced the RCM and it solved the no crank issue and TCM being off line.
Go to the RCM connector C. Open up the top of the connector there will be 2 red wires with a yellow tracer. Put 12 volts to those 2 terminals and that will bring the TCM back on line. The relay on the RCM will click but not conduct power to the TCM. This allowed me to make the call for the RCM.
I always somewhat liked the Chrysler Crossfire when it came out. One of the cars to come from the very short lived Daimler-Chrysler merging. Lets merge some of the crappiest American made cars with some of the most overly engineered German vehicles. A sure fire recipe for success (at least for auto technicians that need steady work).
It _is_ pretty...
DRB3 scan tool, multiplex cable, crossfire super card for this American German cross breed….if you have a access to one, it makes this no start pretty easy to diagnose…park neutral switch is in the shifter assembly.
look for blown fuse or other lack of power on the shifter lock. We had similar problem on a Cadillac CTS would not start and would not shift due to blown fuse. In our case fuse was blown due to aftermarket remote start, but regardless without power to the shifter lock the car was dead.
Some chrysler products won,t shift if the brake light switch is half stuck,but brake lights will function
Ah, the Crossfire car which looks like a dog taking a poop
Those modules in SLKs would usually cause random stalling or no starts, I've tickled them with the soldering iron before. (typical round pin Mercedes module things) CLKs would sometimes open circuit the positive cable between the battery and alternator somewhere too, great cars 😅
IIRC that Chrysler Crossfire was based on the Mercedes-Benz CLK while Chrysler was owned by Daimler-Benz. Chrysler had several vehicles/components that were based in M-B vehicles. Before the 300/Charger/Challenger ended production they were based on the old S-class chassis. I think even some Ram pickups had M-B transmissions. For not being on the road for a year, that car started and ran well. I hope this repair is "no parts required because I doubt you would find parts for that car. GREAT VIDEO!
Based on SLK not CLK
Before anything I’d turn the motor by hard first to see if it’s not locked up. Seen it before shop changed battery, alternator, starter.
tcm and other components are under passenger floor and are notorious for getting wet.thats also where the radio amp is.
Absolutely perfect video to prove I need to stick to old cars. The more the "clever" electronic modules, the more the expensive problems.
Found this out when I worked in a GE factory making sensors. (to obtain access to VR in the early days to achieve cheaper driver education by experience). Most of the workers couldn't care less about quality or consistency.
I still enjoy these videos as I find them educational even at my old age but I prefer stuff you can see work or take apart and grease. I even know where to put the coal in and how, properly ....lol
These M112/M113 engines are notorious for crank position sensors failing (cheap and easy fix) and causing stalls or crank no starts. That would definitely be the very next place to look.
The best
It's somewhat normal after sitting for a year but man, those lifters were clacking super loud.
Probably because they cranked the shit out of it before it became a no crank? 😆
If it werent for Late model Dodge vehicles, youtube would have 90% less derelict vehicle content😂😂😂
Good ol chryler, probably a groung issue. no matter what the customer will have it back and running soon
Actually it's a Mercedes 😉
i would check the grounds on those modules tht are off line with all the dash lites on when you had it running because you had to give the block a new ground source
Could really go down a rabbit hole but I'm wondering about power & ground at the TCM. Also what doesn't the can signal look like?
Check why the brake system is not showing that will be why you can't start it with the key and move the shifter leaver. Why it won't run after warming up might be that sensor you're looking at
What would I test next ??? Probably my patience because I have none.
That car came all the way from right near me. Looks like Whitley county IN. It’s definitely a long way, but I would do the same if I ever had one I couldn’t figure out on my own.
How did it go from start and run to a crank and no start?? Did something happen with spark or fuel in that short amount of time 🤔
Also, whilst in live data, does the shift level position sensor show up in the engine ecu data
It's strange some of the modules are offline and the radio is acting weird. Almost seems like a water intrusion or ground problem. I guess I would try to unplug one module at a time look for green crusty's and see if one of them is interfering with com signal. I may be wrong, but I have a plan!! 😂
Your game plan my turn out great!
Seem like you went in 2 different directions on this one. Personally, I would have focused on the TCM. And that once you had a solid crank signal, focus on the non running, which is a separate diagnostic charge
Ever consider getting a Mercedes-Benz Xentry for diagnosis, even a fake one
My observation is that this vehicle has multiple issues. A crank no start condition when hot (ckp sensor maybe) & an issue related to the shifter stuck in park which causes a no crank. Looking forward to part 2.
What would be your explanation for all the no coms then?
@@remodz6385seems obvious, likely a module offline due to power/ground issue or network problem. Simple test with a test light should give direction.
I would test this cars ability to be pushed off a cliff or it's ability to resist fire😂!
Would check the shifter lock if not adjuster right the inputs will be right for crank but signal from trans will not be if you don’t hear the shifter lock move when you press the brake pedal it might be moving but not enough for trans lock
Neutral/park start switch. I had a old tractor that would not crank, cus the transmission start switch was disconnected - way back in the 90's
The safety interlock here is integrated into the modules that are not talking... That's definitely the direction we are going to go next 👍
Yeah, he said the shifter has it's own module.. Another thing that is over complicated for no reason. :)
The Crossfire seems to have a Misfire.....
If it’s the CPS can you hit it with a can of freeze or is it buried?
Hi Ivan. I had something similar on Merc SLK. No comms with ABS, shift lever and auto box, as a result it wouldn't crank. There was a relay pack of 5 built in relays under the bonnet next to fusebox. One relay was open circuit. Had to replace the full pack. You might have something similar.
You'll love Part 2 😁
Chrysler Crossfire ... Made in Germany by Karmann while Chrysler was owned by Mercedes.
Hi Ivan, I have similar problems with my 99' MB SLK230. It's a no start but will crank 3 times. CAN is at 120 ohms. I'm assuming I can still measure the Ohm's between the HI and LOW with the modules powered down by the K40 relay? I unplugged the ECM and the Ohm reading dropped to OL. Where's the other resistor? Your videos and know how are so helpful.
I think you have seen the answer. The missing brake signal for the gear shift lockout is likely not the same switch as the brake light.
Shifter issue perhaps.
the ecm fuse and the tcm fuse even pull the fuse to the abs modal ! then i wold check ( with the batt unplug if you have close to 60 om +/- 3 at the DLC ! let say it 40om will then you have to find the modual or brokering wires that brought it down ! You might say why simple one or more modal may bring down the whole network take it from me networking is Not eazy to figer out !
not being able to get the car out of park is the key to the problem......
0:46 r.c.m .... the board's have bad solider points . Ask me how I know lol. Theirs a guy in Florida that rebuilds them for around 100$ .
👍
More than likely an electrical issue. Scope the cps and compare to known good
the shop took a couple months to change the battery , damn they busy ! hope they didn't charge lot storage fee
They did not. They were not sure of problem and did not want to throw parts at the car. I still Use the same place. Just My car had them stumped. Other times they have fixed my vehicles, with no issues.
That would be ruthless. haha.
@@terrydoberstein6742 Easy , you'll hurt yourself , just having a bit of fun , Don't get your Panties all bunched up !
check why TCM and ESP are offline?
I'm not expert but I saw missing fuses when you checked the module ❗️
Why would a shop replace the battery twice when a simple test would have determined whether or not the battery was good and the alternator was charging? Even I know how to perform these tests.
I have no idea 😆
Because they are not Technicians. It's a fancy word attached to auto mechanics.
Some have no technical knowledge or skills.
👍👍
Oh, boy, the worst of both worlds in one, Chrysler & MB
Regular Mercedes SLK just the skin different.
That looks like a Mercedes m112 engine.
I'd ck can line first if good then fuel pump and if good then pcm
Ahh, the bastard child spawn from Mercedies and Chrystler. I remember working on a few of them. It's certainly been a while though. The can bus on these was practically worthless. But enough of my ranting. My first thought is to go after the TCM. Find out why that is offline. Once you solve that, you should get the can bus back at least.
its not nice calling someone a dip stick car humor lol
Hello, first of all, I am from Mexico and I use a language translator, sorry if something is written wrong, I have a 2005 crossfire, I already checked RCM and Skreem and everything is in order, everything was later After removing all the plastic from the dashboard and putting everything in its place, the car would not start again. Crank three times and turn off, im very confussed with the problem 😢
Water?
see why shifter not working.
Ivan brake light switch is a two part system,one for the stop lamps the other for engine management/trans position lock etc might be worth a quick check without wishing to teach you to suck eggs.
Amazing how people pay top dollar for what is actually junk in a few years. Pure liability.
Was that Arabic music inside the car😅😅
Mice love Mercedes Benz.
Chrysler missfire