Charger Parts Cannon DISASTER...Fuel Gauge BROKEN After Pump Replaced? (Part 1)
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- This 2013 Dodge Charger V6 has had several major repairs done before 120k miles.
Recently the owner had the Fuel Pump replaced attempting to fix a slightly rough idle....WHY?
After the pump was replaced, the Fuel Gauge has been showing the wrong level, and the Check Engine Light is always ON.
Shop #2 tried to fix the gauge problem, but only made it WORSE!!!
Let's peel back the Parts Cannon onion and follow the data. I have a feeling we might have to open up the tank AGAIN!!
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Enjoy!
Ivan
Knocking the hose out of the gas can was the most relatable part of this video 😁. Interesting case study!
NNNOOOO!!!! Not a solution in Part 2 !! Dammit Ivan!! I want it tonight!!
I appreciate you just don't jump at conclusions and swap wires but really investigate what's up. That is pro level.
Ivan is the 'Sherlock Holmes'of bad vehicles!
Elementary old chap ... elementary
21:50 I'm so glad i'm not the only one who has "oh 💩" moments while working on cars! Ivan is a master level diagnostic and repair guy and I respect he doesn't filter suck moments out of his videos. I have "oh 💩" moments just popping the hood! 😂🤦♂️😂
Ivan , look up TSB 08-152-23 updated fuel pump & connector.Keep up the good work!
I wonder if they put in the old model pump yet changed the connector for the new style ?.
My yellow lab and I always watch diagnostic videos early Saturday mornings. PHAD and SMA before rest of family wakes up. Great video! you and Eric O. best two CZcamsrs IMO.
I've developed a circuit board designed specifically to fix saddle tank fuel inaccuracy on older Mitsubishi cars. This video hits home! Mitsubishi ran their sensors in *SERIES* which was insane. They did this purely so they could use the same fuel gauge on all the cars whether AWD or FWD. And of course the senders are not the same; one has a longer range of travel than the other. This is pre OBD, which was common on non-US Mitsubishi cars until the mid 2000s!
sound like that would explain some of my trouble with my Montero Sport tank, if it has that kind. 'course, the whole vehicle is now at the 'discard" point, so...
Another weird case, Ivan! When you mentioned they changed the pump wiring, I went "ho-ho". My guess is the pump they installed had different internal wiring and they tried to make it fit, but botched some of the signal wires in the process. Can't wait for Part 2 - this should be a good one :-)
My thought as well. First thing I thought was: is it the correct pump for the car?
@@hikerJohn Exactly!
Even the oem pump has a wiring correction on the updated replacement. I have a 2010 dodge challenger and that was the case when that pump was failing. Evidently, there was an issue with the pump power wires being too close to each other and wanted to space them apart more. If you need, I have the oem replacement paperwork/diagram. Even came with a new connector, but I just swapped the pins around. Was better than chopping the harness like these guys did here.
@@mikeafa1 Seems like a good solution!
Taking good notes is really key to the troubleshooting process.
I'm sure its a disaster inside the tank. I've been down that road on a Nissan before. Wound up replacing both units with OEM and the problem was solved. You have cousin Pookie rewiring the car also! can't wait to see what you find. Thanks Ivan!
Can't wait to see part two
Having fuel tank access under the rear seat is so convenient
This is perfect for a single guy on a Friday night! Thanks Ivan!
Edit: I’d love to be your neighbor and hang out and have a few beers with you. Thanks Ivan for sharing your knowledge with us! 🇺🇸
Speaking as a married man with a daughter; count yourself lucky
@@kevinbarry71Haha, 😂. The right woman will make your world easy me man! Have a great weekend!
@@titaniumman_22 make no mistake; I have a wonderful wife and I'm lucky to have her. Nevertheless…
The saying is happy wife happy life I prefer NO wife GREAT life ( had one once it was like a Chevy Cruise always something wrong with it.🤣).
@@kevinbarry71 I hear that, I have an awesome wife too and I wouldn’t trade her for a new truck! 😂
Very similar set up to 90's BMW's with a saddle type fuel tank and they always having issues with the petrol gauge! Lo oking forward to seeing what the inside of the tank shows.
Oh no it ended ,I am ready for part 2.
Definitely. It’s a mopar. It will be back.
Even the oem pump has a wiring correction on the updated replacement. I have a 2010 dodge challenger and that was the case when that pump was failing. Evidently, there was an issue with the pump power wires being too close to each other and wanted to space them apart more. If you need, I have the oem replacement paperwork/diagram. Even came with a new connector, but I just swapped the pins around. Was better than chopping the harness like these guys did here.
Ah that makes sense! How did your pump fail? At what mileage?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnosticsI would say that it was @115,000 miles. The pump was still working fine but the fuel level sender was worn away at the electrical sweeper contacts. Or at least very loose, not contacting firmly.
In addition to that I have to have the instrument cluster repaired by United Radio in Syracuse NY because that was faulty as well. Some kind of electrical components were burned up or failing?? This didn't report to a BCM module like the 2013 and up models as I see in your video.
Lastly, as a preventative measure I also replaced the passenger side fuel module and it was the same issue and amount of wear, so for about $800 bucks and with oem parts I have peace of mind and it has been trouble free for a couple years now. Good stuff!
Never had these problems with the GM mechanical fuel pumps mounted on the engine !!
Yeah because the duel tanks systems on GMs never ever fail....
Last chrysler 300 I did a fuel pump on. Wether it was dealer or aftermarket fuel pump, they gave a new harness to wire in. I was told they had issues burning terminals
Can't wait for Part 2 - this should be a good one
Isn’t there a redesign for the charger fuel pumps to move the ground side of the pump away from the power side because they were having problems with the ground side melting at the connector
This is interesting! That sounds like a good explanation to the findings so far! 😊
Fascinating. In suspense for Part 2.
Can't wait to see part 2 Ivan!!
Can’t wait to see this one, tech error I’m thinking. This is a good one Ivan
The one pumps overheats the connector so they move the power and ground to the pump
oh left us hanging. Thats the oldest trick in the book. Now i got to come back and watch part 2.
That's quite a circuit! I think I remember a BMW with 2 sensors in the tank, too. Back in the mid 90's I helped a friend with a Jeep Cherokee. He has replaced the fuel pump assy, and the gauge worked backwards! I checked it out and a new pump assy fixed the problem. I wouldn't count on either sending unit being OK on this one. Looking fwd to part 2!
My first thought was reversed wiring & when you showed the wiring & two were crossed I would have thought you would switch them & see if that fixed the problem I will find out in part two if I was right. Cheers.
IVAN, You rock sir thanks for sharing ur approach and information AWESOME as always can not get enough enjoyment /learning from ur videos. cheeeers from Ontario Canada
You got a good one, I'm thinking no parts required
Those level sender signals just looks like the ECU has a voltage divider. 12 volt feed but the sense pin in the ECU uses a voltage divider circuit which caps the voltage seen at 5 volts even if there is (almost) no resistance from the sender. Somethling like 180 ohms as the fixed resistor in the ECU would do it if the sender also topped out at 180 ohms, but your fixed resistor value is always based off the resistance range of the sender.
Hell of a cliffhanger
I had an 1989 Pontiac 6000 All Wheel Drive that had this same set up. The tank was saddle style to accommodate the drive shaft going to the rear diff. The driver's side pump was conventional electric and the passenger side was driven off of return fuel pressure that would pump fuel to the drivers saddle. 0-90 ohms each sender was 45 ohms. Never had any problems with the senders or the siphon pump, but i did have to replace the electric pump. Had over 200K, dont really know because the Odometer on 80s GM digital dashboards would only count to 199,999. Pump was a real PITA to replace. Had to remove prop shaft, and exhaust from cat back and it was a northern car to boot.
In the AES wave kit there's a variable resistor, i always use that to see if the gauge responds to full/empty signals. While also looking at the scanner ofcourse 🙃
I connect it to the connector that plugs into the sending unit.
Shot in the dark here, but I don't understand how that pump is even running also. Could it be that the rewired pump is spinning backwards, cavitating, but the crossover pump is enough to keep the car alive and draw some fuel from the otherside of the tank? The BCM and ICM do dumb down real world fuel levels to avoid the gauge from bouncing around like an 80s GM and do update only periodically while on long trips. KOEO will reset real world levels, and that sometimes can shock a driver who thought they had XYZ fuel in the tank, shut the car off, then upon a restart finds they have less! My 09 Challenger does this and Ma Mopar says it's normal...
Oh man...part 2 😊
One way to know for a fact is the size of the wire the pump has more load so the wire is bigger so you know those are in the correct place
I think I'd be testing with a couple of potentiometers to confirm the harness-to-the-gauge wiring.
"Rewired something in tank" 👩🚒🔥
Great detective work!
Not too long ago, we had mechanical fuel pump on engine, a level float in the tank and a gauge with 1 hot wire and a ground plus lightning for dark environement . . 😐
"Whoops, dont do that"😂
Hey Ivan this a common problem they tend to use newer pumps on older vehicles which don't have the same plug they do the samething with fan blower motors too in stade of keeping original plug design they upgraded to a newer design with a more modern up-to-date vehicles with the new harnessed pig tail
hey Ivan. I got those same black spigots for those gas containers. They are so much better than the original ones that come with it.
My cans are old enough to have the simpler "no splash" design. All I needed to fix my cans was a true vent. Amazon sells those for a dime a dozen, and all you have to do is drill a 1/2" hole on the other side of the can and pop them in.
I had to replace the Fuel Pump on a Charger not that long ago! NOT a Genuine part and comes with a wiring diagram showing those 2 wires connect at different spots as you have found! That's why the original wires are connected to different coloured ones!
Paused at 13:14. Replacement fuel pumps on most Chrysler products come with a replacement plug. This is an update to try to fix a potential plug/socket melting issue.
After watching the video all the way through, sure enough. Someone didn't read the manual when replacing the connector. smh. The factory connector has both fuel pump power wires next to each other on one side. The replacement connector separates the fuel pump power wires by moving one wire over one pin. This also changes the order of the fuel level sense wires.
eh, seems like the last shop followed these instructions perfectly, and moved the power wires from neighboring to separated by one...
@@jovangrbic97 Seems like the last shop to work on that car read just enough to get the car to run. lol. Or maybe it just seemed right to pair the fat wires to each other. Yolo 'ed the rest.
I just did a pump on a Tahoe and it also came with a replacement pigtail that I had to swap out with the factory.
@@tomjohnson6036 Did it change the pinout on the connector? Or was it just a new replacement connector?
@@Sandmansa It was a new pigtail with a different connector that I had to put on the vehicle. The OEM pigtail/plug wouldn’t fit in the new pump. They were both 4 pin connectors (2 big wires and 2 little), I believe the OEM was a 2x2 and the new one was a flat 4.
Ivan, if you’re going to do your intro outside, please use a mic muff..thanks from all of us. Keep up the great content!
The fuel level float gets stuck in my Holden Commodore sometimes & I don't worry about it because it frees itself up after I drive it.
It tends to happen if I don't drive the car very much & I only add half a tank of fuel per fortnight to bring it Up to the full mark,it will free itself up but !
Resistor carbon track on sender unit wears away in one spot.
Guess how I know...
Think this is the first charger Ivan’s ever worked on that we’ve seen
me waiting for part 2. Thanks.
How is it that Ivan has better cliff hangers than most TV shows?
This is just a knee jerk reaction, but I'm thinking the BCM sends a signal to the fuel gauge that averages voltages from the two sensing units. If the voltage never changes on one sensor (due to mis-wiring or a stuck sensor) it would result in the fuel guage only moving from full to half full.
Nice info. Love how you’re thinking out loud and showing the step by step process. I got question if you can answer. I installed a fuel pump exactly like this on my wife’s 2010 charger. I had to reorder the wires. They are in the exact order that you’re showing them to be in at 13:38. Is that the correct order?
The fuel pump works and the car is running fine and the check engine light is gone now but the needle moves all over the place. I was confused by the order of those two small blue/white wires. On my first attempt, the needle was going back to E and staying there as if it wasn’t reading at all.
I swapped the two blue/white wires around and now the needle goes anywhere from half a tank to 3/4 full or full then back to half. Would you wager that the wiring may still be incorrect or could it be something with the cluster?
On to part 2.
The fuel gauge electronics are impressive. It's neat how it knows when the gauge is not reading properly or when fuel is not transferring properly.. On the other hand, they seem to have overly complicated what used to be a simple and robust system.
But the code called out the wrong sending unit 😆
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Maybe the wiring confused it. 🙂
Those "Came;back" tanks often give problems. like on the Volvo XC90
YOU NEED TO GET A HARBOR FRIGHT HYDRAULIC TABLE CART, after year of working off the floor i wish i had one because now that i am 77 my back and knees are bad from that..
after market pumps move the pins due to overheating the connectors
Well that's interesting..how a Charger saddleback gas tank works.
The new pumps come with a new wiring order because the old pump. Power and ground were next each other and would burn the connectors and pins
After market pumps move the pins because of over heating
Definitely not your average problem!! I wonder what kind of Chinesium pump problems you're going to find when you open Pandora's box.
21:50 uh-oh. Ivan said a swear word. Get ready for the cancel threats😂😂😂
It'll be interesting to see what's discovered. Seems like whoever replaced the connector simply cut off the old connector instead of cutting one wire at a time.
The after market pumps move the pins due to I’ve heating
Part canon or butcher shop? I guess we'll find out in part 2!
I don't understand what's so baffling about them wiring it incorrectly. I guess we'll find out next episode.
More akin to aircraft with multiple tanks, switches, very complex.
Pump comes with updated connector
Prob wired wrong when new pump was installed. On some of pumps that come with directions they are also wrong
California level third world auto repair never disappoints. Thanks Ivan!
Probably a generic pump installed, the mechanic was clever enough to make it work. And if this was 40 years ago, he'd be a hero because there was no algorithms that would detect that something wasn't quite right.
I wonder if they rewired the fuel pump inside the tank to match the heavier gauge wires on the connector since the connector doesn’t match the wiring diagram?
Can’t wait to see what’s behind door number 1. 😂😂
one look at the fact the wiring had been botched like that isn't just a red flag, it's bright neon yellow!
This is a similar fuel saddle tank system on Camaro across the driveshaft. I'll assume Mustang is also likely similar.
As I get older, my reserve fuel tank seems to be getting emptier sooner now.
My goodness. Why do engineers have to overcomplicate things? All people want to do is see how much gas they have.
Well, I would say they rewired that fuel pump because it was aftermarket and the plug was different than the OEM. You said "it just keeps getting worse the more shops it goes to." I hope it gets better now that it is at your shop. I know you are Russian and you don't care about safety, but please be careful with that gasoline. I would hate to see you get barbequed on camera. GREAT VIDEO!
Thought you were more than a little blase’ with all the petrol not to mention the vapour,however we enjoy your vids in England.
That wiring makes it look more like a bomb to me. Scary.
This might be a dumb question but...why not just Reverse the reversed 2 wires and see if that fixes the problem? Seems like that would be the first logical step and possibly fix it in 5 minutes.
Is it only getting a fuel reading from the primary side/sensor, thus not calculating the secondary? Typing this @ the 6:00 mark lol. I'm probably way off, just a shot in the dark.
Need to replace both FLS
The new pumps move the pins due to over heating
:( I was ready for part 2 lol.
welcome to computer module Hell Ivan
In the U.K. some people have reservations about buying a car that’s done over 80,000 miles, in the USA that seems barely run in. 😳
Transfer tubes and clamp are just spare parts… weight reduction opportunities really.
Sorry Ivan, I've been in hiatus on CZcams for a while. On vacation and work was so slammed with jobs after jobs lol. Hahaha you haven't worked on dodge for a while lol. Hahaha i hate those dual pumps. They cause to much trouble if you not careful with rewiring! Nice video Ivan!!
Good to hear from you again Josh! 😄
How can the engineers screw up a simple pump and sensor? Complexity for complexity sake??
Sweet
Pt 2 for the money shot🙄
I see you went back to the thinktoolpro a few videos back you said you were going to use a new one is there a reason?
💣 Couldn't find a cannon, so Ivan is "the bomb" will have to do.
Two tanks hooked in series? What the heck does level 1 and level 2 mean?
Good stuff
12 years an still no part 2 ?
Skinny Black, that’s Ludacris… 🤣
Made in Brampton Ontario.
or, at least they were.
I'm BITTER, SNARKY, IRREVERENT, DISENCHANTED, (¿)PISSED(?) - - - - - with the state of automotive repair. Oil change, tire change, brake R&R, ?? no problem... BUT for highly technical we need a whole new major national chain of "PERFECT*MECHANICS." The local shops are mostly OVER THEIR HEADS for today's multi-computer nightmares on wheels. Heck.... look how this wizard IVAN has to pull off hat tricks one-after-another. AND IVAN is a wizard. IVAN IS A WIZARD. He's not the only one but the others who are wizards are camouflaged by more common incompetents... I want the industry to establish demarcation between commoners mechanics and wizards. And commoners must recognize when they are over their heads and call in the SPECIALISTS.
Interesting thoughts. Doesn't take a wizard to read some service info and a wiring diagram... Just a bit of time and a willingness to learn. Now why the owner agreed to change the fuel pump for a slightly "rough idle" is a mystery 😄
It's interesting, I find that some consumers are truly fed up with sloppy diagnostics, I feel for them (and help them any way I can). Some customers however, say they are sick of bad diagnostics, but the first thing they want when they come in is a free estimate. Think about it, you can't give an accurate estimate until you know what's wrong, and you can't know what's wrong until you diagnose it.
Free advice is worth the price you pay, but good diagnostics pays for itself!
@@JessClearyAutoRepairLLC ABSOLUTELY.... precise diagnostics are MORE valuable than repair work. Any customer who wants free estimates is delusional.
I think you'd be surprised at the percentage of the population that is truly incompetent at what they consider themselves "professionals" at.
It's by far into the low 90's.
The "wizards" are the few left with a passion to ALWAYS be learning.
Most say they are, but the proof is in the pudding so to speak.
In fact... estimate is old fashioned as it is predicated upon "standard rate and data." With 30, 40, 50, 60 or MORE computers the diagnostic process can't be GUESSED AT. The estimate is impossible. The truth is the repair can't be estimated... unless oil, tires, brakes, etc.
It,s a Filipino thing.
We got this pump, make it work.
If its a plug in unit, just plug it in.
Not cut and cross wires.