2 Stroke vs. 4 Stroke Mini Bikes! Race + Thrash
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2019
- Our 2 stroke Yamaha KT100 mini bike is surprisingly very evenly matched with our stage 3 Predator 212! They cost roughly the same to buy and they make similar power, but power delivery is way different! The 2 stroke doesn't take off until halfway through the power band, but when it does, you have to fight to keep the front wheel. Unsurprisingly, the 212cc 4 stroke has great torque and a strong top end (for a 4 stroke). The 2 stroke is unique and very impressive from a performance standpoint, but the terrible fuel consumption and lack of a pull starter make it inconvenient. Regardless, these are two fast mini bikes!
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The 212 has an unfair advantage with that leopard skin seat cover.
Yeah leopard is like +15hp
The 212 4 stroke is the answer for most people, but the unique character and afterburner-like power delivery of the 2 stroke is wicked!
CarsandCameras vids to short bros
Here is a thought. Could you install a tourqe converter on the 2 stroke (if its even possible i dont know much about that motor) .... my thought is that maybe it will allow it to get into the power band rpm range and stay in that rpm range longer .
That’s pretty sweet guys. Hey check out my build I’m building a Yerf dog it’s coming along pretty sweet. I named it the Yerfinstein might bring it out that way next year for the meet up. Go on over and check it out let me know what you think.
😂
@@johnboy201028 Probably not enough torque for that much rotating mass.
I have a feeling the 2 stroke will dust that 212s ass when running and geared properly. And maybe use the fuel tank on 212 for 2 stroke, the one that fell off.
It will, I’ve used both
Friend of mine had a fkn go kart that had a KT100 and he weighed 145lbs and was clock at 87MPH on a flat road here in F..... those KT100s are small aircraft engines awswll 😂 they are badass and no joke at all
Y’all need to still build that two speed mini bike that you talked about a while ago. Would be awesome
Raced Kt 100 engines on go carts in the 80's. On a Sprint sit-up chassis we did 110 mph at Daytona. Very powerful little engine. We had many different expansion Chambers and header pipe lengths to tune for different tracks. Also had different gear ratios and clutch settings. We used belt drive, much more dependable. Similar to timing belt.
Kt100 is cool. But a yamaha blaster 200cc is even better! you guys should try it out
I have an 01 blaster 200... it’s a riot
I got an 89 I love it
Yeah but this way they didn't have to swap the sprocket and chain to the other side.... doing this swap is the best for offroad and drag racing applications especially if looking for a two stroke mini bike!
That 2 stroke bike isn't running anywhere near correctly
100% right it needs a proper exhaust and it sounds like it needs a bigger jet also!
The first time you ride a proper 2 stroke you never want to ride a 4 stroke again
Greetings from Germany
They are better in many ways mostly they can run wherever you put them. My family used to own a lawn business a long time ago and they only used 2 stroke mowers because they didnt care how they were oriented.
Leaner mixture is needed
@@partyboy16v , that is a "proper" exhaust for a clutched KT100, mixture does need to be leaned out though. It's on a very safe mix by the sound of it.
peril787b youre right this is a proper exhaust but it is hacked up with this angle it cannot work right.
I do 2 Stroke stuff since 30 years here in Germany.
The exhaust would work right without the 90 degree bend in it 😉
Seems like the gearing is still too long especially on the 2 stroke. It doesn't sound like it's coming on pipe, it's sounding linear. Excellent test.
or stiffer clutch springs like ive said before
Yeah the clutch is definitely not tuned for optimum performance and she is geared way too high for this small of a course.
It sounds like 2smokes are a whole different skillset? Easy learn, hard to get just right? I have 0 experience with them so...
@@thegenerousdegenerate9395 yeah sounds about right, they are super simple but can be a pain in the A** to get running right, iv worked with a lot of them.
@@thegenerousdegenerate9395 the way 2 strokes work is that they rely on a resonance to make power, cylinder ports and expansion chamber (exhaust) make them resonate at a certain rpm range and the higher the rpm that resonance is the more power they make. the resonation range can also be tuned for a bigger power range for the cost of peak power, or a very narrow power range with a very high peak power. wich is why a 4 stroke centrifugal clutch is nowhere close to optimal for delivering power from a 2 stroke engine. you would need either a variator (CVT) tuned to make the rpm stay in the resonance range or a gearbox with atleast 6 gears. but ofcourse you can also make a centrifugal clutch work but you would have to choose between acceleration or top speed.
Some of those clips of the 2 stroke are great. There's a few spots where it's up in the power band and sounds sweet.
On your 2 stroke engine the expantion chamber is trash second no reed valves put some good reed valves
The KT100 doesn't have reed valves, it's piston port. The expansion chamber is a good one for a clutched setup.
I've had rocks in the tread of tires, sticking to drag slicks, too....but to actually get a rock INSIDE the tire takes SERIOUS talent....Well done, sirs.
Put that snazzy clutch on the 2-stroke!
Thank you guys for making these videos they always lift my spirits.
Y’all should know that a 50 2 stroke has more “power” than a 50 4 stroke
They know that, they mentioned it.
This is true. With proper tuning a100cc 2 stroke will have more hp compared to a 200cc 4 stroke. The 4 stroke will have better bottom end (more take off) while the 2 stroke will have better top end power. The more modern 4 strokes are closer in power range to a similar cc 2 stroke, but have far more torque throughout their power range while the 2 strokes still have a narrower power range with more peak power. A "power band" (variable exhaust port sizing/timing) is simply the rpm range where a 2 strokes exhaust valves open up to allow more air to flow through the engine allowing the engine to turn higher rpms. Not all 2 strokes have "power bands" (fixed exhaust port sizing in this case) they are just tuned to hit their peak at a certain rpm range. I'll stop rambling on now...lol.
Andrey Angere literally different strokes lol
I agree. I've built so many 2 stroke racing engines I think I could do a full teardown and reassembly blindfolded at this point. I always get a kick out of people telling me their bike only has a power band in third gear or something like that. On a four wheeler I prefer a 4 stroke and a bike a 2 stroke. Was going to say I'm to old for carts but if it's got suspension I'm down to roost it. Kind of want to do a cross cart build or one of those power wheel builds that are getting popular. Could you imagine a 500cc 2 stroke power wheels build, wheelie bars would be a must.
Hill Billy the fatty pipe is what makes a 2 stroke have a power bamd
Camera quality is outstanding guys. The footage is really clear. Keep up the great work!!!
2 strokers always have a gator-aid bottle with extra fuel!
10:30 I saw that too @2:23 It's crazy how literally any vehicle looks dope when you slam it!
This is literally the perfect video I needed for my minibike build
Loving the Dewalt starter Issac brother. That's a really big key 😂
Be blessed Rastafari
Yeah except it hurt to watch him set it down in the sand
Have fun riding and wrenching. You guys are crushing it, out on the trail. Good jam. Damn good jam : )
Another great video guys
If anyone is still looking for a good Christmas gift for me, I'd love that Camaro in the background.
I gotchu. 70-74 Camaro z28 split bumper. I'll tell santa 😂
@@ProdigyAutomotive I've been good!
@@ProdigyAutomotive I must have been bad this year. No Camaro in my stocking... :-(
@@MegaKencam I'm sorry :(
A tip, when you touch the brake rotor when taking it of, after you have mounted it, use some alcohol or aceton on a papertowel and give it Quick wipe just to make sure there is no oil or whatever on there.
Thanks for the videos guys !
Both of these little machines rip! Fun to ride,relatively hard to break and very easy to fix or upgrade. These bikes are big fun and are affordable for almost anyone to get ahold of,you can't go wrong with dropping a couple hundred bucks on one to get out and thrash on.
Now I'm getting excited about my project bike...a 1973 Kawi G4TRC. 100cc two stroke, five-speed, and hi/low range. I may look like a McCrary brother on it, but it should be fun on a bun!
4 stroke would be my choice. Thanks for sharing
Literally goes to 6000 rpm like 4 seconds after starting them. Sounds reasonable
The crazy thing is:
I took my boss' 200cc ag bike down the back of the farm yesterday to open a gate, and it was more fun than either of those looked.
Bring back the drag rail we all are waiting and wanting it back
Even with the kt100 running like shit the 212 couldn’t hang top end
A well deserved happy holidays sirs
id love to see you guys convert an old 3 wheeler into a 2 wheeled fat bike!!
If that 2 stroke had the correct type of expansion chamber it would be a monster
U guys need to head here to Wisconsin for late January or February for the ice races . I'm studding tires on my mini bike this week .
Just an FYI when we used those in ultralights we used 50:1 premix and synthetic 2-stroke oil.
Give 'em the same gearing and then we'll see how the 2-stroke does!
Same gearing that two stroke would spank that thing
Yeah everything is similar between the two except the redline is so much higher on the 2stroke
Make a 2 wheel drive minibike. that would be cool love your videos! 👍
Great video
I love that 2 stroke so much! I guess it needs more love but damn. Different cutch? Sounds like its Not revving out too?
I picked up the HF small tire changing station. Highly recommended..
You guys should look around see if you can get your hands on a rotary
Small super powerful, 🤔
I'd love to see a rotary go kart, too bad they suck to tune.
@@ProdigyAutomotive build break repeat have done a full build on a rotary kart
Inefficient, much more emissions and unreliable.
@Andrey Angere What is.. producing more pollution? breaking down far more often? or the using twice as much fuel to get the same power?
@@bdhale34 go plug up all the volcanoes if you are worried about how much a little rotary "pollutes"
Reed valves for the 2 stroke and a torque converter
It's a KT100, they're piston port, no reeds...
Sound like both bikes are still geared too high for this type of riding. Awesome video
Get a porting job done on the 2 stroke (increase in port time/area), and get a pipe to match (resonance). There will be alot more wrong in performance terms than just the ports, but it would be a neat little project to seriously tune it to self destruction 😁. There are some great tuning books out there. That 2 stroke is so held back as it is. I think Graham A Bell has a good book on it.
Your doing great by the way 👍.
Love the hose clamp muffler mount.
Missed you guys
When do we get a tour of the new CARSANDCAMERAS Grand Prix and race facility ?
Whoa good show!! Looked like a blast.
**🤫SSSHHHHH 212cc quietest Muffler you can get test??
(Keeping neighborhood in the dark not knowing your ripping it on your 212cc Ride) We can all relate to this one
Do you guys think you could do an electric kart build? Maybe on the Dingo? I have a Dingo 286 and I've been thinking about doing an electric conversion once I get the cash.
I love how you put street tires on them and was all like "lets.do some trails and take em in the mud"
Ikr
Holy crap dude that thing rips!!!
How do you make it run forward instead of backward I made a mortorize shopping cart and it runs backwards I'm using a predator 212 engine I need help on this I could use your help
Hey, are you guys going to take on of the mini jeeps from sema and build something awesome with it?
Its Just Gets Better And Better !!!
I think the 2 stoke needs to be set up right and it will be a beast. Set the stall higher and the carb needs a good tuning. Check the compression too its probably very low and needs a rebuild. That is probably the reason it starts hard as well. You may never go back to a four stroke if you get that two stroke running great.
Though the 2 stroke was a gas hog, you could definitely tell where was from the sound. It's nice seeing the change up from carts and bikes.
When do we see the truck, the new property and all the new wild and crazy stuff?
Are you going to do a Christmas special? Maybe everyone that you can find drive anything running. Trying to put on or take off an ornament while driving by would be fun.
Love the sound to the 2 stroke 4 stroke are just good cheap and easy
Dont know why but those jumps made me laugh.
Loving the development of you guys' channel. Support all the way from Johnston County 😂👌🏾👌🏾
Put a Chevy 305 or 350 in a lawn mower
Please do it
Lol
I love your channel guys. I sure if that 2 cycle engine was running properly you get better gas mileage. I think the 2 cycle engine is neater looking and better sounding. everyone knows that the four strokes have way better low-end torque and they're way more readily available I like to see someone put a us820 engine on one of these, there around 7-10hp at 134cc
Great . video I'll take a 2 stroke any day of the week
Can you guys do a souped up moped build
*Let your 2 strokes warm up longer !!*
another strike against the 2 cycle. Meanwhile, the 4 cycle is eating ground by the second.
William Cornett I had a seizure reading this
Technical note:
Normally the front tires treats are heading in the opposite direction than rear tires treads. You do that because the tire has different grip levels depending on the rotation direction and while the front tire is max. stressed while breaking, the rear is while accelerating... seems unintuitive and I don’t know the specific tires but this is how it’s normally done. Still great head to head :D
How do you start it with the drill without it breaking your arm
do some good carb work and tuning on the 2 stroke carb. investigate if you can put a torque converter on it to help low end torque or if converter is no go lower the gearing some more (may require a jack shaft) or look into the clutch problem or replace it. fabricate (this would be a C&C first) or round-up a decent expansion chamber for it.
I honestly love this channel and what they do but every time they go out there's always somethin that brakes I would definitely love to see all those machines fixed the right way before they get taken out to ride
thats where itll be fine comes into play
Odd question for John, what are the dimensions of the trailer? I am looking to buy a 20002 Avalanche and wanted to know a good size trailer for hauling my baja warrior and a fox 2 go kart.
That 2 stroke if it was geared right would be a lot faster
Setting up the exhaust is very important on any two stroke motor and then setting up the clutch to clamps at a set rpm is what you should do but to get the best out of the KT100 you need to rebuild it about every 10 to 12 hour of running. The 4 stroke is cheaper to maintain that the 2 stroke and you can do more mods to them easier. 2 strokes the port timing is what gives you the power through the rpm range. Enjoy the time trying to get the best out of them.
Get that 2 stroke ported
Put a SMALL nipple in the 2-stroke's fuel cap and attach a rubber hose to it as a vent hose. Old Enduro bikes used to use that setup.
who makes a mini bike frame that will fit that 186FA 10 horse diesel engine you bought?
Guys I have a 1987 Honda FatCat the engine will run but is kinda worn out and very few parts are available, what should I put on it to make it do about 60 MPH?
What clutch would you run on a built out p79.. max torque is my go to but shopping around
You guys took the cake with that lawn destroying ducarti? Or why r u wrenching at ikes place now? :D
Im not sure how much knowledge you have on Two strokes, but if you need any sort of help, i know A LOT, so if you have any questions feel free to Ask me.
And the Two stroke right now, sounds a bit rich, you could Check the air screw, but the air screw should not be more then 2.25 turns out and not less than 1.5 turns in.
Otherwise, the needle controls 1/4-3/4 throttle.
The pilot (smal jet) controls idle and up to 1/4 throttle. Main jet controls full throttle. And 1 thing That is important to think about, is That all of these effect each other. You cant change the pilot jet and not expect nothing else than idle and 1/4 throttle to change.
Great video, as i am more in to Two strokes, its nice to finaly see you get one.
What would ur opinion be on a 460cc build on a mb165/mb200?
You should put one of those 2 stroke motors to replace the locked up 670 on the dragrail
Wouldn't have enough power/torque for the rail. Might be able to use the 440 2 stroke but even then, 2 strokes aren't torque monsters.
@@BunkerBlog I know they where pushing the chassis to its limits with the 670 ot made like 60 hp but you do have a good point they dont have the torque like a 4 stroke
As with all the comments,you need to sort the 2stroke. Some debate in the motocross circles as to which is best, (usually comes out as two stroke)
Can we get paddles on the drag rail and take it to busco beaches strip
Do more with the manco dingo please.
You guys should make Ike’s shop in nice studio shop! It’s really dark looking in that shop!
I wanna see guy start to do cateye pocket bike egine swap would love to see what you guys do with them
2 smoke is nice ... BUT ... i agree with your last comments ... for equal $$$ a 212 would be my choice too ... easy to work on .. reliable .. lots of aftermarket options
You guys should do A tug-of-war with all your go carts
Your two stroke is way behind on two stroke technology. The expansion pipe-muffler combo could be swapped for a proper tuned pipe, could port and trench the cylinder, add a reed valve, and more in-depth carb tuning. Those 4 things, as well as a better clutch, and a little lower geared final drive would allow for way, way more power, and better power delivery. Small 2 strokes (especially with supporting mods) like to live at 8k-12k (even higher the smaller the displacement) so you’re way from getting the most out of that kt100. Right now it’s geared for top speed, I bet if you dropped a tooth on the front sprocket (even without changing anything else on the engine) she would spank that 212 on this short course.
Fast as hell
I like them both
when are you coming back to go power sports
The 212 sounds like a dirt bike you should setup a kick start or pull start for the 2 stroke
2 stroke or no stroke
Hey you guyse should make youre own songs for the background music out of garage sounds for a video
Come on guys they deserve to hit the 1 mil mark
The moment you say "the 2 stroke is better IF" then you already lost. Simplicity is best.
I could see that engine on a build you guys do to rival that blue trailmaster .
Ok thinks u good video I love your video thinks
Who decides on the timelapse music? It's a very unique/interesting choice compared to the content of your videos. It's gotten to the point I just fast forward through them