Just One HUGE SCAM?! 😤 The Problem With EICR's!
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- čas přidán 17. 07. 2024
- EICRs should be pretty straight forward but that's no excuse for them to be done so half-heartedly. Sadly we come across poor workmanship like this far too often! That's why in this video, Luke answers questions such as; What is an EICR? Why should you get an EICR carried out? And why are so many EICRs getting done so badly?! Make sure you comment your worst EICR find below👇🏼
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⏱️Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction
00:16 - What is an EICR
01:25 - Make sure you do this!
02:18 - Why would you get an EICR
04:02 - This Report was TERRIBLE
05:36 - Further tests needed
06:27 - Explaining what is a C1,C2,C3
08:51 - This product is AMAZING
10:03 - Great little tip
12:07 - What to do in these situations
13:25 - Opinions?
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I rent and the landlord had an EICR done. From the youtube channels I know a little about what's involved and made every socket in the house accessible. To his credit the electrician appreciated that and took every socket off for testing, got readings for everything and was very thorough. My landlord did not skimp and they own a LOT of properties. Hats off to them.
That is decent of you to make sockets available for testing. Saves a lot of hassle that.
Great to hear 👍
Great to see a solo Luke video. You know your stuff and are a credit to this channel
Luke did a great job,
He appreciates this comment
I am jobbing electrician in south yorkshire, with very high standards. I complete many EICRs and believe you are doing an excellent job at educating the public, protecting us all from the plight of rough arse chancers. This is also great for the up and coming youth, a fine example.
Great work.
I had an EICR done on a single 16A radial circuit, that was protected by a 30Ma RCD in the board, as I was renting out a small outbuilding.
I e-mailed through exactly what was on this circuit and stated that I would check all the screws on the outside sockets to make sure they could be undone.
I was quoted £250 + VAT but the actual EICR was a pile of "dog's poo".
No sockets were opened. The resistance checks were NOT done from the end of the line and I got a C3 where the cable passed through the house wall as he could not be bothered to undo 2 M4 screws and see that the cable was passing through a conduit sleeve when going through the cavity wall.
As you say many EICR's are not worth the paper they are written on.
Estate agents for rentals are forcing down the price of EICR. They don't care for the content or the quality of the testing. They see it as a box ticking exercise as long as it states satisfactory. Can't rent a property in England without one. A property not rented means lost commission for the estate agents
Yeah it’s a race to the bottom unfortunately which is why we need to educate people on what a proper EICR looks like
Good video. I to complete loads of EICRs for estate agents, nothing better than getting readings from end to end test.
I don't remove appliances anymore after getting accused of breaking one.
Great pace of inspection, sensible and not rushed. Have you ever had estate agents pushing for a pass though and piling on the pressure, or you wont be getting more work from them? I have learnt what to do to handle them but would appreciate your input!................;)
They can get stuffed if they want to do that… keep your integrity and customers who have integrity themselves will appreciate it
@@artisanelectrics Great response. That's the right way for sure.
Don't ever give in to some dodgy estate agent . Tell them to shove the work , you are worth more than false test results .
A company in Glasgow are telling electricians to do 8 EICRs a day to get a price of £30 per EICR absolute joke. Even had some electricians admit they didn’t test anything in order to make a wage the cut corners
That is way too many in a day...
The old Google earth test standard for council properties the only way to improve standard is by making a eicr reportable to building control simple as that
Great job Luke Thanks 👍🏻
👍👍
I would say with the Gas bond if its bonded at further down in 10mm thats fine, its the fact that its an extraneous conductive part, between that bond and the flat it does not go back into the earth, so it will be connected to the main earth going back to the supply and then bonded so no problem IMO.. It would be nice to be bonded in the flat as you have control over that bond but I bet its not actually a 100A supply to each flat, so if you do the adiabatic equation you wont actually need a 10mm bond..
Waste of time . I know a person who about 3 months ago bought a house with a new EICR .
Person who issued it hadn’t even seen the property. Just done by photos I would think from his arm chair. Half the lights had no earths as they were wired in bell wire . No earth bonding . Incorrect size cables on ring , the list goes on . They went back to there solicitor for advice . He said not much you can do about it . We see this all the time. They are not worth the paper they are writing on .
Im wondering if the N/A or lim is related to whatever software they use which if they haven’t bothered to fill it in and they auto fill any empty boxes with NA or lim.
Do you use an R2 wander lead? I find this very useful on working out the end of line and checking over all class 1 fittings without having to remove everything.
Thanks for the tip
Yeah most of our electricians have these and use them on every EICR - definitely a time saver
Im an apprentice electrician. This vidoe was very informative and would really apprentice it if Artisan Electrics could go back to doimg these types of videos once again
As David Savery calls them drive by testing. Also was listen to radio one day and an electrician phoned in stating that they were very busy and 8 testing jobs that day.
" testing jobs " 😂😂😂
Pat testing maybe at that speed 😂
Come across bad EICR's loads, generally allow half a day minimum for a 1 or 2 bed flat. Have limitations on accessing things like oven outlets depending on the physical size of the oven but outside of that if there's not tonnes of furniture or it's a void property an EICR isn't difficult to carry out.
That said many agents think we can pump them out for 80 quid when our absolute cheapest is over double that to do a flat competently. They don't care about safety though, just skimming their cut and getting the paperwork in.
That tash is a C1 all day long. Good video though mate
In Germany VDE says: 4mm² for Potentialstuff. 6mm² for Lightning stuff Like Antennapoles
I used to be an inspector … I am retired…. But been dragged back in … a brand new housing estate I was asked to change some new build light fitting for the new owner to lights of there choice…. Empty new home I found 6 c2 and 2 c1 ……. One of my customers family also bought a new house on same estate and they allowed me to check there installation 14 c2 and 1 c1 …….. after talking with the builder firm there reply was. It’s all within nic regs 126 home are being built on this estate and there not prepared to do anything …….. eicr should be sent to nic or napit first for checking then nic or napit passes it on to the customer…… this does away with cowboys and bad eicrs ……. Was this flat a fail or a pass ?
Governing bodies are not worth what you pay for.
I can go one better I live in a council house and had the yearly gas safety test, guy came in done the test all ok. Thanks and bye, me being me I went up to the boiler to check it. The boiler was old if you take the cover off you see the open flame when running. When I looked at the boiler it looked okay and checking one of the top screws that held on the case it was missing and replaced with a plastic cable tie, so when the boiler was on, the casing will get hot and melt the tie. I called the council emailed the contractor and gas safe of the danger of carbon monoxide as the boiler is in a bedroom.
Council as usual the contractor will sort we are not qualified.
Gas safe reply we will look into this.
Contractor came out no comment but replaced boiler in a few days.
Called gas safe to say that if they want to see the boiler they need to come in the next day or two, their reply was oh we can’t make it that soon, but do make sure the new boiler is fitted correctly. So now I the competent person who know nothing about gas installations. Wast of time calling them.
Were you able to pass it withoit continuity of cpc at the light switch? Isnt it a C2?
Interesting that you counted 6 lighting points. My friend is with NAPIT and asked them about this. He now counts switches and pendants- are you only counting pendants?
A mate had an EICR done on a 3 bed semi at the cost of £500 inc VAT. The guy was there 45 mins by all accounts and raised some C3 on no RCD sockets to serve the outside, incorrect rated RCD for garage (which incidentally he didn't even visit) a missing blank from the CU and some IR check failures. Quoted for a new CU at £750 and £85/hr to trace the IR 'fault'.
I asked then to supply IR readings (they couldn't) and then showed them the powerbreaker RCD soccked by the back door that they missed. One by one the caved in and re-submitted the EICR with no issues. I believe my mate has dobbed them in to the NICEIC. Thansk to Artisan and others on YT for all the guidance needed to challenge this farcical report.
Gents, love the work, like to diss other sparkies too BUT to quote 651.3
- Periodic inspection and testing *shall* not cause (...) damage to property or equipment even if the circuit is defective. Cutting sockets off freshly decorated walls before renting the property out would definitely not fly in our region. At least not just to find an extra C3 code for.. what - lack of sleeving behind there? You have to weight benefits of removing everything everywhere on every test. Were the readings high? If not, it's probably best to leave it be. You were asked to judge current condition of the installation for further use, not to re-discover wiring practices from the seventies. Once you disturb every single old fitting and accessory you might be actually leaving the property in slightly worse state than you found it. Other than that - smashing episode.
I only do one EICR a day then I go home and do the paper work.
I agree that a lot of EICR's are not up to scratch. I am not an Electrician but I work closely with lots of Electrical Engineers (industrial, not Part P) so I know the sort of things to look for. The EICR on the house I bought 2 years ago was worse than the one shown in your video. The installation in the house is terrible with some very sketchy stuff going on with not even having to look too deep (for example the Distribution Board is miss-labeled, various circuits have the wrong size breakers and there are wires with just insulation tape on the ends loose inside it. Also, there is so much spaghetti inside the distribution board you have to press the cover really hard to compress the wires to get the cover back on. Yet the EICR says all is OK. We are fixing the various issues one at a time. I used to be a landlord and good electricians were booked months in advance and the ones that you could get quickly were usually available for a reason, i.e. they were not the sort you wanted to touch your electrics.
bonding in my opinion certainly in flats should be at point of entry or where suitably accessible
13:31 I think with regards to Gas regulations they say gas bonding 'where practicable' should be within 600mm of meter outlet. And have known Gas guys to fail a service based on the bonding not being within that zone. From an electrical point of view I would get a wander lead from the apartment and see if I achieve readings of 0.05ohms or less before making a decision. Obviously parallel paths could reduce the readings further. And I think running a secondary bond would be unnecessary if readings are 0.05ohm or lower. And disconnecting and installing bond to new position to apartment may void the gas side of things!!
You get what you pay for! Some customer's just want the cheapest and hoping that a quick wizz round will result with the satisfactory box ticked. I'm sure, just like the rest of you guys we get called by these National EICR companies who pay a fixed fee of £70 for an EICR. I've followed up other EICRs where I've been asked to review work, and sometimes it looks like the report has been written without the inspecting electrician ever leaving their van.
I personally don't spend too long faffing about trying to trace unknown cables. I'm still on a fixed price, so if I can't trace a circuit within a reasonable time then I will mark it as FI.
Informative video and will help those who are new or coming into the industry. Dread to think what Artisan would charge for this!!!!!
Had an EICR done back in May this year. Less than 2 hours, so a splash and dash. I’ve asked the landlord for my copy of the report 3 times now and still don’t have it, that’s against the rules isn’t it?
The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020, regulation 3, 3b , 'supply a copy of that report to each existing tenant of the residential premises within 28 days of the inspection and test'
New laws passed recently apply to social housing too, though I can't find the actual legislation for this at the moment. I believe you can also ask for any asbestos testing and fire risk assessments for your building too.
Very much against the rules: under the Housing and Planning Act Section122 The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations pga/2016/22/section/122. I would email them simply stating the fact nicely and link in the official legislation web page itself.
Interested in how long this took you. EICRs are a joke now. How these companies are allowed to get away with it is beyond me.
B2B contract/sales, are landlords going to get a second opinion on a hunch then if something is found take them to small claims court and then have to find another (inevitably more expensive if they do the job right) provider who is going to risk signing a contract with them?
This was a half day EICR which is typical for properties of this size when we do them.
@@artisanelectricshow much do you charge for an EICR?
@@chester6343silence now 😂
Generally, 1-2 eicrs can be done properly in a day.
Which other countries apart from Britain require an EICR (or comparable) every few years for example on rental properties? Does Germany or the US have something similar as a mandatory residential electrical safety test?
Many countries do.
@@joeds3775 which countries specifically and what are these checks called? We owned a house in Germany for decades and nobody ever asked for electrical certification. Not even when selling it.
When renting an apartment or house in Germany, I also never noticed any electrical recertification or checks being done.
No in Germany, we belive that the electrician how work at the build the house 1902 works correctly. But through the last wars from starts electrical devices till these days all old buildings destroyed mostly or renewed. My apartment build around 1984 have had originally only main switch and MCB's, later they put one RCD in (bathrooms need them since the 1990's) - after the main switch. 😮
Newer installation have typically 3phased three independent RCD's after main switch with some MCB's. I can't understand these - since years RCBO's existing. 😂 But MCB's are cheap. 🤦♂️
This fuse carriers have 2 screws don’t they? Firs one clamping the copper and second squishing the insulation. Still not great though.
... ? I imagine that if 2 screws are provided, the manufacturer's intent was that both screws should be in contact with the conductor. Furthermore that no conductor should be visible ... or contactable outside of the terminal!
hey guys I just wanted to ask if you work in the Liverpool mersy side area of the UK? for eicr
It's the reason I stopped doing EICRs a few years ago, mainly because I hate doing them, but secondly no one was willing to pay a fair price for a proper EICR when the drive by cowboys decided to get into the EICR business and start doing a house for £100. Glad to be out of it to be honest, but I do dread to think how many thousands of landlords are sitting there all smug with their cheap as chips EICRs that are totally worthless and will leave them in serious trouble with the insurers and the law should their tenants come to harm. The letting agents are to blame too as they always look for whoever will do the cheapest EICRs.
Naughty connections behind fridges, etc can be troublesome for PAT testers. Its easily possible the tester wasn't physically strong enough to pull out the fridge, so assumed the flex visible above was the manufacturers flex for the fridge.
more likely is the PAT test was done when it was sold at a charity shop. Then the customer bought it and cut the cable to fit it through the hole. Then realised it wasn't long enough and used some flex and a terminal block. Only businesses and resellers need PAT
Any limitations should be agreed with the client before carrying out an EICR or reason(s) given why part of the installation couldn’t be inspected and/or tested.
Definitely
@@artisanelectrics Being too lazy to open up an accessory isn’t a valid reason to limit an inspection and test.
Pay pennies get shit work.
I work for the council and the contractors we have doing EICRs have to do 4 a day including remedials
That'll be 2k plus vat plz
Is that your professional charge for an eicr on a domestic property?
These recent videos that are very educational are a god send. Wish I had these kind of videos when I was an apprentice. This type of content is invaluable
The bell wire needs to be a c2 . No way should that be inside the dist board and it should be on a lower rating fuse a 2 amp .
Basically the design of the board and circuits in its day are safe and compliant, in my opinion
The board should be upgraded if all the circuits test ok and for the uninitiated ie joe public refer to the cpc as the earth
first thing I saw was that bell wire inside the DB should be 1.0mm sq T&E ( sorry cpc )
i know its not great, but would that actually fail a PAT test 🤔 11:50
luke wasnt sure either 🤣
Doesn't a crappy EICR "benefit" the landlord / owner with less repairs and costs if they don't test and find everything? Yes, of course that defeats the whole purpose of finding potential safety or hazards. But if they don't care and just want the paperwork why would they push for more thorough EICRs? If a paper full of N/A is acceptable and they don't care it works for them.
At the end of the day you have to hope that some landlords actually care about the safety of their tenants and not just money.
@@artisanelectrics You would hope they all do, but sure that's not the case.
I rent and have noticed some really weird wiring in our house. I’m not a sparky but pretty sure a thick cable shouldn’t be sticking out of a wall resting on a doorframe, wish I could add a photo! ‘Wiring check’ (eicr?) is due next year I’m interested to see what they say. We definitely have faults too 2 sockets trip our electric if we use them
When did Clark Gable join the team....... ? 🙂
What's the code for socks on steps 😂
My test was done in under half an hour
Time doing the EICR on my 3 bed council house
Open front door
DB under the stairs
Out from under the stairs all done
Out of the front door
Total time 15 minutes
Bet he hates the camera following him around. Otherwise he would have been in and out in 30 mins.
mixed messages on pulling appliances...
It’s a box tick exercise because it’s easy money and most clients haven’t a clue.
Yeah to be fair its also the governments fault, EICR's were done by people that wanted an honest assessment of the electrical installation.. Now its mandatory for landlords who just want it done as cheap as possible and the government did not define what limitations were allowed.. You could create and EICR with no results and all limitations, does that fulfil the governments new law?
@@steve11211 good point Steve. As always these great ideas need a custodian and constant monitoring for quality, or they risk becoming worthless for the client.
EICR from abroad 😂😂😂 😎
Do electricians carry ID proving they are qualified?
Not usually, in the UK we have a card system but not all qualified electricians have a card, I don't even have one.
@@artisanelectrics I do🤔
This is what sets you guys above the rest. Yes you may be more expensive, but not cutting back on your quality is the most important thing. You dont need the cheap jobs.
The way I see it: Buy cheap buy twice! And if in the world of Electrics or anything where safety is paramount, I'm paying a good fair price no cheap cowboy! When it's done it's done and done properly then I can forget.
I failed job interviews because I said I would do a detailed inspection.
That is beyond shocking, people want to work fast but not provide quality work.
@@artisanelectrics Sadly it's not an isolated incident..
That mustache. Save it.
Genuine question - If the business is struggling so badly that you need to get rid of sparks why would you not just get rid of the back office staff and automate your processes/job requests instead. Can be done at the drop of a hat if you move away from these basic systems like Tradify and move to a proper IWMS
Good video to highlight the difficulties of performing an EICR , I’m not saying the original EiCR was simply a walk by but if you are criticising other tradesman’s work then you need to justify how the experts do it . Maybe starting at the head end with the type of electrical installation TT , TN or TNCS and size of tails , size of bonding etc then the consumer unit and then to the final circuits testing . It would be also interesting to see how you unplugged all the connected appliances and light fittings including isolating or disconnecting any fluorescents lights or disconnecting any other permanently connected devices before conducting a 500 v DC IR test and also be good to see if you performed the crossover conductor and cpc continuity test on both ring mains instead of just the R1 RN R2 continuity test. I’m sure you guys did all the above but it would be nice to see it all filmed and the final results C1 C2 C3 codes 👍
Work to a standard not a price
(R1+R2) testing, i.e. dead continuity testing, is for initial verification. It isn't particularly relevant to periodic inspection and testing. There certainly is no requirement to carry it out for this (although of course this should be agreed with the person ordering the work). Live (Zs) testing is more appropriate for this, as the installation is already energised. R2 (wander lead) testing can, however, be of use for verifying that Class 1 lighting/accessories are actually Earthed where it's impracticable to access the terminals.
No it’s not, how do you confirm continuity of the CPC and that you’re not just measuring a parallel path.
@@alvina69 you mustn't be terribly familiar with periodic inspection and testing then. Dead continuity testing won't remove parallel paths either.
@@richardwalsh5882 It will if done properly, disconnect the CPC of the circuit you’re testing from the earth bar and link it to the line conductor.
he needs a R2 lead
To do a ICER takes time to do it properly and not twenty minutes...
100%
Isn't he a bit late for Movember?
I like the tash
It is amazing but he has not kept it :(
Drive-by EICR’s.
😂
It’s the tash. 😂
Magic
😂
Too many adverts guys.
How many did you see?
poor guy, no one told him he got something on his upper lip? ;)
A lad I know does 8 a day not joking either 🧐
Only 8? pffft
This video isn’t worth much either . You ask for opinions on the size of the bonding conductor but don’t state the earthing system or size of supply .
What codes did you find in the installation? Was the report satisfactory?
Without John or Jordan I don’t think anyone at Artisan is experienced enough to be carrying out an eicr . The physical testing is very good but knowledge of coding and previous regulations is not .
Wow sorry Mr brilliant
@@stuartoakes8880 what are you apologising for ?
Nah your the best just apologising that we are not all super duper like you
@@stuartoakes8880all relevant points Stuart . If you make a video bashing other people’s work it better be a good one .
Your brilliant
Drive by EICR
It also shouldn’t take half a day to complete an EICR for a property of that size with that amount of circuits. Invest in some shoe covers as well man, come on…
These EICR tests aren't about safety they're about milking money from private landlords. If they were about 'safety' homeowners would be required to have them which they're not and homeowners can tell them to go away. The test is only recommended and not mandatory for homeowners. Lots of homes owned in the UK would fail the bogus EICR. Electricians look for ways to make money and EICR is not about safety if it only applies to rented accommodation.
Why do electricians bitch about other electricians? I get your point with cowboys we have to sort other folks shit as well and it also does my head in but artisan slag folk non stop in your videos now,it’s gonna catch up with artisan one of these days if they make a small mistake.
That’s what we do…
basically when you see cables Black and Red no need EICR at all all you need is just tell to the costumer your property need re wiring
I assume that you are making a joke. Those old colours were used right up until the 16th edition in 2001...
What’s distracting isn’t the tache it’s the fact you are wearing trainers to a job! 5 star electric but no boots that are safety tested and even on an EICR notice with lee too been slipping with equipment worn it’s not hard guys come on
You mean his white socks because he's taking his boots off due to being professional 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Fed up with these guys now - slagging off other people’s work, yes it is a poor job but the client probably paid £50. The issue is the client and the industry not really the installer.
EICRS are a big scam, whilst an unqualified person is completing one on your video. Does know his stuff to be fair but 🤣