U.K. Electrics SUCK! This is what we should be doing…🇫🇷
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2024
- I have been in France for a while now and it made me realise just how frustrating UK electrics can really be! 😡
In today's video, we will take a look at a French consumer unit and what are the main differences and similarities between one in the UK and one in France. We reveal what is inside and get a few important business updates throughout the video. ⚡️So leave a like, Subscribe and enjoy the video.👍
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⏱️Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction
01:00 - Uk frustrations!
01:48 - Interesting things about this French Consumer unit
03:08 - Opening up the consumer unit
04:41 - Let’s see what’s inside
06:47 - Update from our team in the UK and an important message
08:55 - Neat or not neat?
11:30 - How this all works
12:50 - Figuring out what this links to
14:09 - Looking at the electrics upstairs
15:33 - Let’s talk about these RCD’s
17:13 - Taking another cover off to take a closer look at…
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Re: your guitar, as a colleague of mine said when I said I didn't have time at work, he told me 'you have to make time' 🤨😅. I likewise have a guitar that I should know how to play by now, seems I also have an inability to make time 😂
Welcome to France from a Scot in Tulle!
Question for you - does you being in Marseille have anything to do with a video ad I saw on the YT vid I watched before this one? The link in the right panel mentioned MaPrimeRenov, but the ad itself featured several clips of you (Jordan, in an Artisan Electrics shirt, no sound), so I thought I'd ask.
Hi, Welcome to living in France. Bon chance 😂
I am from Scotland originally but living in France for 22 years.
I live not too far from Marseille in a town called Manosque.
I have just moved to a lovely old Provinciale house with a lot if interesting electrics. Feel free to contact me if you would be interested in a visit as you mentioned in the video. Cheers Andrew.
We have that system in Germany too, it's called Hager Quick Connect. It's not one earth block shown in this video, they are two block connected together with a link that is located between the third and the fourth screw from the left. And on the left and the right ends you can see the unused and open holes for the links to add more blocks if necessary. Hager also manufactures them in blue. You can get them in different sizes, with or without screws. The push-fits are rated for 1.5 to 4mm², and the screw terminals for 1.5 to 25mm². Rated current is 63A.
The blocks cost round between 6 and 15 Euros, depending on the size. The links cost 34 Euros for a set of 10. The difference is, that you won't find type AC RCDs here anymore. Only in older installations. They have been banned for new installation in 1987.
The fuses official designation is NH fuse, but they are usually called blade or knife fuse. They are used because they can isolate a short-circuit current of up to 120kA. NH is German and stands for Niederspannung Hochleistung (low voltage high power). They require a special tool for insertion and removing them. Not to be operated by lay persons, because that system has no precautions preventing the insertion of a fuse with a too high rating. They have an optical indicator showing when the fuse is blown.
aren´t the AC RCD´s banned even since 1983? either way it is highly recommended to change them out immediatly mostly to an type A but i would always take at least an type F because of all the appliances today that have an vfd in them and of course when you have an EV or PV system in the house best solution would be an Type B but they are still very expensive, where the F is only ~20€ or so more expensive than an type A
@@TheFlow2006 Nope, in 1984 it was introduced that "circuits in a room containing a shower and/or a bathtub must be protected by a 30mA RCD". The type AC RCDs approval, according to VDE 0664 was revoked. And no VDE certification, no installation. The mandate for VDE certification comes from the regulations released by the DNOs (Technische Anschlussbedingungen or TAB).
Type F is usually not necessary, type A is sufficient. For special dedicated circuits like EV or PV, I would use the recommendations of the manufacturer. They tell you what devices for protection need to be installed. If the EV charger has an integrated protection against DC faults you usually only need a type A RCD in the supply of the charger.
And the thing is, you won't get type F RCBOs, only RCDs. You then require an additional MCB.
In the UK we use term HRC or High Rupture Current for fuses like main cut out fuse. Typically 60 amps, so won't blow 'instantly' [0.1s] untill around 880 amps, but typically can resist 80,000 amps for like 0.0001 seconds without exploding to badly and creating secondary fire
The circuit is cable from street =>blade fuse=> linky meter => RCBO selective 500ma , you can open the "exit side" of the RCBO but not the fuse box. the seal is missing here.
The led driver is illegal in the consumer unit, it's not attended to put anything else than RCB , circuit breaker, relay, but definitely not a led driver !
The bussbar on the top row is attend for use with screws, the bottom one is the right one, it a push fit but have retaining clips to lock the bussbar in place.
With linky the adjustable main RCBO is not adjustable any more. It was previously used to set your power subscription. they were all set at the highest current the line feeding the house can bear. The subscription level is managed by a breaker (a simple switch) in the linky.
The switch will open only if the current is over your subscription but as it's not equipped with any arc extinguishing system, the linky is smart enough to keep it close if it's a short circuit or any condition that will damage it if open. The protection for short circuits is provided by the main RCBO, and if the RCBO fail the delayed blade fuse will open the circuit at last resort. Type A are a bit more expensive than the older AC one, but now the difference is so slight that you keep only type A in stock and install only A type. It came mainly with the development of induction cooking device with high power diodes that create high DC voltage with high power.
Note that the breakers are type C and not B like in UK
The Netherlands has very specific requirements for the main consumer units: a standardized "meter cupboard" (meterkast). It is not perfect, but nowadays the regulations say even where everything needs to go NEN 2768[1]. The base plate is also standardized 2100 × 750 × 310 mm. That is where the main cable of the electrics but also (often) gas and always water come inside the homes. I also like Hager. In the Dutch regulations it however limits the amount of circuit breakers per RCD to four.
you mean those ugly black ini mini boards they still sell ? with no cover ?
I dunno but the old ones were wood in south africa and now steel with some kind of plastic or enamel paint, mostly whit or grey black was the color of the switches cause its like a plastic that doesnt melt as easy as white plastics i think they added carbon @@kittsdiy
The Brazilian standard is closer to the EU than the British. Basic supply is 1 phase 127V for very small houses in very poor regions. Due to the electric shower with up to 7500W, most residences have at least 2 phases allowing 220V. Three phases is frequent if residence is not so small.
Rural areas have 1 phase splitted in the middle making 127+127 = 254V! It is frequent to see just one distribution line for the transformer that has the other side connected to the ground and the neutral. Hope neutral never disconnects in this installation!
There are 2 states where the phase neutral voltage is 220V.
All Brazil is @60Hz
Love to know the cost of the double pole circuit breakers with the push fit connections and is there a single module rccbo version, probably asking too much now, no rings there though
@@williamlowther7051 on major brands (Legrand / Schneider / Hager) it's around 8-10€ for circuit breakers. More like 30€ for 3-Phase + N.
Rare amp values (like the 2A used for command circuits) come at a higher cost, can be 12-15€.
In Australia, they have banned the use of Type AC RCD's/RCBO's. Type AC RCD's are designed to detect AC residual current leakage currents, but aren’t able to detect leakage currents coming from more advanced technologies and appliances producing non-sinusoidal leakage currents, generating pulsating DC residual currents or slowly rising, slowly falling DC residual currents and halfway residual currents. Because of this, the need to improve the level of protection, transitioning from the minimum velocity Type AC to Type A as a minimum. The RCBO's here do not switch the Neutral wire, only the active.
The dangerous thing about type AC RCDs is that you can put a diode between Live and Ground and they will NOT trip, while a type A RCD will.
The DTI (Dispositif de Terminaison Intérieur) is the point of demarcation between the telephone network and the interior wiring, so that’s where the network operator responsibility ends. The other little box is just a television antenna splitter.
There’s another box you can get which lets you terminate RJ45s from around the house in a small patch panel (up to 16 ways) and also has space (and power outlets) for a router/switch.
The Linky meter is a smart meter send 10 minute interval readings back normally via power-line carrier to an aggregation point at the substation. They can also be fitted with 4G modules if needed. The meter also detects if you’re using more than your contracted kVA and has a built-in trip switch which you can reset if you go over the limit. It can also be remotely switched off if you don’t pay your bills!
We have kind of a similar system in Italy, since the 2000. If you pull from the meter 10% of more power than what the contract allows it will trip, up to 30% more for 3 hours (for a standard 3kW meter it means you can get 3.3kW forever and 4kW for up to 3 hours), after that it will disconnect after a couple of minutes.
When they introduced it it was very annoying, especially coming from the old meters that just had a thermal switch that was not that accurate and you could have easily got plenty over the limit for a couple of minutes. With the electronic ones it's annoying, if you use your air dryer and forgot you had the washing machine on, you will have to go reset the meter (that for newer regulations has to face the public street, so you have to get outside).
Of course people can just pay to augment the limit to up to 6kW or 10kW (more you need to go 3 phase) for a couple of euros of fixed cost more at month, but you know, people don't want to spend money and prefer to do mental calculation on what appliances to activate and when to save 10$ at month.
@@alerighi People managed to trip their supplies even in the old days of mechanical meters and thermal cutouts. Mamma's got dinner in the oven and sis takes a shower? Darkness in the whole flat within a few minutes. Happened to me when I stayed with a host family in Torino in 2002. I was quite amused when I saw someone from the host family take a picture off of the wall in the hallway to reveal the meter and reset the mains!
@@Ragnar8504 haha that's an interesting alternate reality as somebody from the US.
Around these parts usually it would be something like the doorbell is sharing the circuit with the microwave which is sharing all the outlets in the kitchen because it's an older house and it's sharing the bathroom outlet because you're not gonna use that at the same time. and then you got dinner in the microwave and somebody rings the doorbell while you're in the bathroom and you trip the circuit.
Crazy to think that there's a momentary whole house limit. I guess we're spoiled over here with a 200 amp split phase 240V main breaker and only occasionally very rarely Protection at the meter.
Yeah that sounds a bit facist and big brother
@@willkrummeck What - the telco having a demarcation point?
If you want to learn more you are more than welcome to join me in Normandy. I Moved to France to start an electrical business in France after 10 years on the tools in the UK. Always happy to help you about
The black line in means your incomer is on L2 from the transformer. Same colours as UK 3 phase. L1 Brown, L2 Black, L3 Grey.
Interesting to maintain the line colour all the way to the consumer unit.
@@iainkay3630 For single phase installation the phase color is always black, no matter the phase use. For 3 phase meters, colour code is European, so your right for 3 phase installations
if it's like in Belgium the only mandatory colours are yellow/green for PE and blue for neutral. Neutral must be blue, blue must be neutral. The phase wires and light switch wires must be any other color. Back in the days phase conductors were red and black then it evolved to black-blue(-brown(-another black)) while now and since a few decades they are conform to HD 308 with blue-brown(-black-grey) and cables made for 3-phase supply without neutral do not have the blue conductor anymore, which makes things far more simpler and safer.
Remember the earth regime of domestic installations is mostly TT in France like in many other countries on the continent. Double-pole MCBs are a must in TT installations as you could have 127 V between neutral and earth in some situations. Also, the habits in France, Belgium etc. to work on a circuit is to trip the MCB of the said circuit. MCBs have the "sectionneur" function = isolation switch function, shown with a T-shaped contact on the switch symbol, and are double pole so you're safe to work on that circuit without needing to switch off the whole instlalation or a whole row of the consumer unit. Also an interesting ting : there is a [S] symbol on the main switch : the RCD function is delayed so the RCDs in the consumer unit will trip first and will trip less circuits. The main switch must be an RCD because of the TT earth regime, again.
Yeah, Germany is weird, we have the TT system in some regions, but we don't have to isolate the neutral, but mostly we have the TN system.
Good point, doesn't this mean that the UK system, apropos earthing, is superior?
@@thebamplayer a TT system where neutral isolation is not mandatory means that the neutral of the single phase is always a real neutral, tied to the earth at the DNO side. In Belgium we have this weird 3x230V distribution system installed after WW2 to spare one conductor in the street distribution, which means single phase houses and apartments get either L1-L2 or L2-L3 or L3-L1, one of which of these conductors is then considered as neutral in the installation... while it is not the neutral at the DNO side... But in other places the distribution is a real 3x400V+N where the neutral is a "genuine" DNO neutral... So, to avoid any confusion and keep things simple, we have dual pole RCDs and MCBs all over the country.
@@icarossavvides2641 a TN-S distribution system needs more conductors in the street wiring, which one could consider as "inferior". I think there is no superior/inferior system, there are different systems and depending of what was more important or what were the constraints at the moment of the decision, one system is more suitable than another in a dedicated situation, at a defined moment in history. Elsewhere or later on, the decision could be different.
German TT Systems uses 3 phases and a Neutral, which is connected with the generator neutral, but you have to build your own ground. So the neutral is connected to the middle of the Y wiring at the transformer secondary. Our Phase to Phase voltage is 400V and Phase to Neutral is 230V
It took me a while to realise I was basically watching an advert.
Yes the moment you realize that the "incidental" phone call was left in the edit deliberately.
Here in the UK we do seem to lag behind the rest of Europe in a lot of ways. I agree with you about our consumer units are all too often located in the most ridiculous places and can be very difficult to work on. The panel you show here is very neat and accessible, why didn't they just put 2 type A RCDs in to cover all possibilities. I like the double pole MCBs which make testing and fault finding so much easier but I think all RCBOs would be better than the 2 RCDs, like we are now doing in the UK.
Our railways are certainly lagging behind the French by at least four decades! They released the 300km/h (186mph) TGV in 1981...And 42 years later we're *still* clipped at a comparatively stationary 200km/h (125mph)... 🚄🇫🇷💯💨😇
(The sole exception to that is HS1...But HS1 is built to the French standard, and the only British built trains which use it are cross-channel variant of the TGV... ❤🔥)
@@dieseldragon6756 It's been obvious for years that our hierarchy prefer our country to be an investment bank lining their pockets with easy money rather than an industry powerhouse. Plus we totally lack skill base labour forces, The country is strangled from all directions. The government are very stingy with their incomes (like banks are) And are slow on the uptake for change - unless it greatly benefits their coffers in the short term. People wave around the term "Broken Britain".. Well, It certainly is! Not in the literal sense (yet lol), But we are far removed from what we used to be and from the rapidly changing world around us.
Good point about consumer unit location. When we got married in the 70s we moved into a new council house. The consumer unit was just inside the front door at a reasonable eye level. Four years later we bought our own house (a Victorian jobby) and were told the house needed rewiring. So I put a simple fuse box in the cellar to replace the old consumer unit and copied the rented house by locating the new consumer unit just next to the front door, with appropriate twin & earth and auxiliary earth cables linking the two. So when I was away for work my wife could reset any tripped RCD/MCB without scratting round. I do now have a mini-consumer unit in the cellar so the link cable is protected by an MCB and the cellar lights plus cellar power outlets are powered from down there too.
" in the 70s [...] a new council house. [...]Four years later [...] (a Victorian jobby) " And that is a large part of the problem, I think. We've got a tremendous range of ages of installation, and consequently wiring to different standards. In some respects the intense ground fighting in WW2 had a beneficial outcome in that almost everything had to be re-wired to a significant degree, in a fairly short period of time, to a single standard (per country/ region).
My first exposure to domestic wiring was when we moved into a Victorian house in the 1970s, and while trying to get the electrics to some sort of manageable state (e.g. replacing "round-pin" sockets with the "square"-pin ones, we discovered large runs of single-strand solid wiring with thoroughly perished rubber (not plastic - it burns differently ; Dad was a plastics chemist ; it was rubber, not plastic) cables, separate cable for live and neutral, going everywhere. We figured this was probably from a DC wiring system - some of the junction "boxes" (metal screw strips nailed to wooden boards, under floors and buried in lath-and-plaster) had polarity signs on them. No way, of course, to tell which was live and which was neutral. Literally, Victorian - we knew the house had been built by a local builder's merchant, so may have been packed with cutting edge technologies to see the old century out (1800s). The wire bell-cords to the servants quarters in the attic had been replaced with some of this positive and negative "white heat of technology" stuff, so the housemaid could be summoned to the drawing room *by electricity* !
Somehow, I don't think there will be much of that left on the continent. But there's still some of it left in that house, because we had a week when Dad was off work for the move, then he had to be back to work and we had to have a working house. And there was no budget for a sparky (nor any legal need).
50 years later I look at Dad's house, think about when I'll have to prepare it for sale, try desperately to remember what went where, and when ... and fear we've got no choice but to get the whole place gutted when we have to sell it. Nightmare!
@@a.karley4672 Our house had several runs of rubber/cloth insulated wires running in hardwood battens. They were clearly machine made with two grooves and a nailed on lid. A couple of years ago I think I removed just about the last of it when I did some work in one of the bedrooms. I believe that wiring had been installed circa 1910s. The house was originally lit by gas but must have been vacated around that 1910s date for some major work including some re-plastering and many of the floorboards must have been removed and replaced. There was also some rubber insulated twin wiring buried in the plaster but that was a later addition.
One thing. I'm glad that I didn't have to wire with multiple radial circuits because there is little space to transition to the front 'posh' end of the house to the rear where hired help might have worked. Around 1995 I ran two six square mm T&E cables for a heater and a twin fuel cooker and that was hard work
Having a split-RCD CU is a step backwards for me from separate RCBOs.
It is, however, about time that CUs with dual bus bars for line and neutral with RCBOs were the standard. Dual pole would be nice of course.
Putting an LED line driver into a CU is a no-no for me.
Having separate circuits for dishwashers, microwaves and so on strikes me as a very expensive and inflexible system compared to simply plugging in or hardwiring into a 32A circuit. That's lots of extra wires, extra breakers and limits locations. Some will complain about ring circuits, but it's perfectly possible to use 32A radials in kitchens.
I should add that just because the water heater is rated at just 1500 watts doesn't mean that it costs any less to run. It just takes longer to heat up. Water takes the same amount of energy to heat, whatever the rating of the heater element (leaving aside heat pumps - a different issue). What does make a difference is being able to use cheaper rates using "smart" technology.
nb. are those rather steep, narrow, open stairs without a guard rail within regulations? There isn't even a handrail on the wall side. We obsess about the danger of electricity, but deaths due to falls from steps or stairs dwarf them (731 deaths due to falls from stairs or steps in England and Wales in 2021 for instance).
Looks similar to the panels in Germany (well, "Hager" is a German brand, after all). FYI, the covers don't have to be screwed back in after you put the cover back on, just push on the screws !
I'm an electrician from Sweden and I've used Hager a LOT, and I had no idea you could just push the screws back 😅 cheers!
Well this is why half the country voted for Brexit, the Brexiteers just love their shoddy electrics 😂
@@Tompradoo
But do you know that Schneider electric is French? :P
@@mattiasakerblom3426 i did not 😅 doesn't sound french! I've used Schneider a lot too, all of my outlets and switches/dimmers at home are Schneider.
The round hole for the back box are they available here in england yet , I first saw them in germany back in the 90s so much easier to use you can still have a square plate on the front
I live in France. The DTI is a RJ45 socket for the telecoms engineer to plug in ADSL test meter. Not used for fibre but if you have a separate landline then this is what is used. The black panel with the cutouts is for network hub/switch normally with CAT6 cabling. Fibre the telecoms engineer like to run this directly to the hub via a green outlet. The Linky smart control is virtually mandatory now. You don't have an option and it is supplied by EDF/ENDIS. So if you change energy supplier it just done digitally with no house call. The busbar protection have been cut too short. You can still touch the live and neutral where it has been shortened. You can buy special covers. The 2A breaker is for the small feed for the HC going to the relay for the hot water. The electrician has not got the correct circuits on AC and A.
This obviously depends on how widespread Frances DSL rollout is (And I've not really ventured into the more rural parts of France)...But I like to think that someday a telecoms engineer will be going into a long unoccupied property to prepare DSL service for a new resident, will open the cupboard where the DTI is, and uncover a long-forgotten Minitel terminal - Still connected - And in full working order (If Minitel was still operational)... ☎🖥😁
(Just hoping to goodness for the sake of the person responsible for the bill - If the terminal had been left powered-on and connected right up to the end - That it hadn't been left on a *3615* page... 🔞💸😉)
@@dieseldragon6756 well, in fact rural parts of France mostly have fiber available 80% in rural areas, and 86% overall have acces to optical fiber. France has the highest rate in Europe and copper extinction has started.
@@pizza_diavola-bx4op France does communications and connectivity *very* well, there's no denying that...And where we Brits were still wasting millions of Pounds every year shipping millions of Pounds of telephone directories out to millions of households around the UK, what did France Telecom do? They dropped the phone _books,_ gave every subscriber a Minitel terminal and free (I assume) access to Directory Enquiries...Soon to be followed up by much easier and cheaper booking of holidays, plane and train tickets for a short data session costing much less than a voice call! 🇫🇷💯👍
And when the rest of the World came into the Internet, France had already been there for at least twenty years. If that isn't the most literal definition of « _advanced_ » I don't know what is! 🏆
Granted, we also had our own equivalent (Prestel) which also supported colour and introduced the first public e-mail service...But at a cost of at least 400£ (4100FF/500€) for the equipment *plus* something like 10£/mo (101FF/12€50) for service, that was destined to fail from the start in an era when most households weren't even earning 100£ a week! 💸
Our norme (regs) called NFC 15-100 up to 8 disjoncteurs (mcb's) per Differentiel. This panel is not in conformity with the latest normes actually.
Plus we mostly use type A instead of old AC now mostly. As soon as you have switching power supplies (in almost everything) they can have fault condition that delays tripping in type AC.
The regs for height: main on/off AGCP 500ma in this case 1.8 meters max, 0.90 min and the switch panel TGBT is 1.8 max and 0.9 min but 0.5 if there is a door. People have to be able to access it in an emergency to cut power and this includes to some extent elderly and disabled.
The box VDI with the DTI can get quite sophisticated sometimes. You can mount routers and switches in them too.
Cables or conduit, depends on the job really.
"DTI" is "Dispositif de Terminaison Intérieure", the telco demarc point where the copper phone line ends. the test is a test RJ11 where they can plug a tester device. this particular model appears to have a 1 to 4 phone line splitter (the 4 RJ plugs at the bottom of the device).
the consumer unit it to be installed in the "GTL" aka "Gaine Technique Logement" which is a floor to ceiling reserved area with a minimum 60cm width and 25cm deep, that is supposed to be accessible at all times. in new construction, the main breaker is to be installed between 90 and 130cm from the finished floor to allow access to handicapped people.
breakers themselves are to be installed between 90 and 180cm maximum for similar accessibility reasons.
as for the A and the AC, there are some rules in the norms about what cicuits are to use what type. you can use F types everywhere too, though, if you have the cash.
"cumulus" is the water heater. the contactor is for the "Heures creuses" relay from the meter
street -> blade fuse -> meter -> 500mA RCD.
In our installation, it's not even possible to partially lift the cover with a seal on. Every accessible component in front of the meter is sealed not only for safety reasons, but to prevent anyone from stealing electricity.
here in France it's also protected agains theft, also with an electronic sensor that tells the distribution company if the cover was opened.
Eastern Europe: there is a panel with a sealed meter at the street front and there is one or more distribution boards inside the house; we can do anything in the house (with qualified electrician, in theory), we can also turn on or off the breaker that is after the meter. Basically after the sealed meter the electricity company has no control, nor do they need any control.
In addition to @johankorten2797, in the Netherlands the wiring is placed in conduit (mostly not flex), and the common circuits are distributed in a star form from lightpoint to lightpoint to the switches and outlets. So when the wiring needs replacing you don't have to break the walls open, you just pull new wires from box to box. Lighting and common outlets are on combined circuits ( 16A).
Also we don't have ring circuits like in the UK, so no need for glass-fuses in every plug. I do find ring circuits are outdated and could be a fire hazard, if the ring has a break somewhere.
The location of the cabinet with the meter- and distributionboard needs to be within a couple of meters (I thought 3) from the front door of the residence.
Surprisingly I've had ring circuits in my house for over 60yrs and never had a problem, although I do tend to look after my own wiring needs.
32A circuits are extremely useful and flexible though, and they do not have to be rings either and can be implemented as radials. It means that in a location like a kitchen you do not need separate circuits for things like microwaves, electric kettles, dishwashers, air fryers and so on. It makes things simple. Also, it means that something like a thin flexible cord on a table lamp can be protected by a more suitably rated fuse in the plug (such as 3A) rather than a 20A breaker.
The reason the fuse in the plug system was adopted post-war was that the previous round pin standard had different sized plugs and circuits for different functions. Thus low powered devices would use small, 2A or 5A plugs on radial circuits with a 2A or 5A central fuse. Higher powered devices would be on 15A radials.
It was deemed by the designers of the system that it was more flexible to have a single sized plug but without forgoing the extra protection of having a fuse sized for the type of appliance in use. Thus BS1363 and the fuse in the plug idea. That was an enabler for 32A (and more powerful) circuits, but it was not the only reason. Of course, this was designed before MCBs, RCDs and so on, but it remains a very useful feature which enables BS1363 plugs to be used on just about any rated circuit (it's common to have a 13A socket on a 40A cooker circuit for instance).
@@davewallace5008 If you maintain it correctly it certainly can work and can be safe. But most people are not qualified for this, and will not notice when there is a break in the ring. In my opinion, ringcircuits in domestic environments are outdated and there are better/safer solutions nowadays.
Ring circuits can use less copper which was a very important consideration during the Second World War when they were first adopted as a common wiring solution. Modern practice, I hear, has returned to favouring radial circuitry,
In central europe Poland we do similar, but our power meters are installed in outdoor cabinet on house wall if power service is overhead or in property border in cabinet if service is underground, also our electrical distribution grid works in TN-C system, rarely in TT, residential gets three phases L-N 230 L-L 400V. If i good know, France using usually TT system with 133 volts to ground and 230 phase to phase which need double pole breakers in house panel
Really? I thought that was only in Belgium, Italy and Spain, with France being mostly 230/400 V.
@@Ragnar8504 Looking at the double pole breakers and also fused neutral in mains page this looks like system with two 133V phases delivered to house
Hiya, I moved from the UK to Biarritz in western France. Welcome/bienvenue !
My electric cupboard looks very similar to yours. By the way, if you take the green front off the Linky you will see some signalling terminals on the lower right - these are where the wires to the water heater contactor come from and how the water heater gets switched on and off for the heures cruse via the Linky (not a time switch).
Mine also has space for the internet router, RJ45 cables to each room and a power outlet to plug the router in to. It is all very neat and tidy. Even the doorbell transformer is in the electrical panel alongside the breakers.
the contactor isn't limited to water heaters! I also use it for my car charging socket for example :)
This is quite common in Austria and Germany as well, the only thing i´m quite surprised is that this flat does just use 1 phase feeding. Normaly households should have a 3 phase suply for better grid balance....
Three phase in an apartment? Are you kidding?
@@johnburns4017 Every household have 3 phase ;)
@@MrElofix I live in North Germany in an small village. All houses here got 3 phase by default. If a kitchen stove is electric it is wired to 3 phase. A flow water heater , if installed, has 18, 21 or 24kW power, flow water heaters a wide spread common.
In my house, the incomer ist fused with the here mentioned Blade fuses (NH ) 3x 63A and the master breaker in the meter box limits my power consumption to 3x50A. The DSO run a TNC-S system.
The house is build 1950 and got 3 phase from beginnig. In 1990 I renew all electric, plumbing and heating
The meter box and the incomer were replaced due a small fire in my cellar in 2020. I replaced all MCBs against RCBO. Most circuits ar 16A B , some 16A C, lighting 6A B. To separate sockets and lighing circuits are not mandatory but is recommend.
In some places you can came across the outdated 127/220V supply. The N is not distributed but bonded to earth.
The all consumers are on 2 phases, so double pole CBs are used.
So if you test a socket you measure 127 V against earth and 220V between the holes.
How I wrote, very rare but present. A friend of mine in the city of Essen lived in a flat with such installation.
in most apartment buildings the phase balance is made by connecting different appartments with sigle phase to the 3 available phases in the distribution column. Many people here in France even when they have 3 phase like to switch to sigle phase to avoid phase balanc, save on subscription costs and electrical equipment. It's common to have 45A sigle-phase in France.
@@pizza_diavola-bx4op
Same in UK. An apartment building will have three phase with each apartment alternating on the phases.
It is rare any supply is less than 60A in the UK. Some very old houses in remote locations may have lower amp supplies. Apartments tend to be 60A while homes 100A.
Belgium here: I have a new apartment (2021) with 3 phase 20A supply. I have 3 rows of breakers (most double module) with screw terminals. This is 3x400v+N. Some homes still have 3x230v, but that is being phased out. Residential is normally always TT earth.
3 phase to induction heater and EV charger in parking garage. (Unfortunately no data cable to EV charger) Everything else is single phase, although I have gas radiant floor heating and a mini-split system for AC. A large heat pump would likely have been 3 phase as well.
Separate breakers for almost everything you can imagine. Max of 8 loads per breaker (double outlet counts as 1 load) by code, I have 4 socket circuits.
Wiring is all singles in tubes, 2.5mm² for sockets fused at 20A, 1.5mm² for lights, fused at 16A.
It's required to have a 300mA main RCD for normal loads and 30mA for all "wet" loads. They are always daisy-chained, but never the selective type, so if you do something seriously wrong, its almost always the main RCD that trips. I wish we would move over to RCBOs instead, so the trips are localized. Other than that I quite like how it's done here, especially compared to the videos I see from the UK :O
Also: In apartments, the meter is almost always in a technical room in the basement. They moved to standardized wall mounting plates a long time ago, but with the new smart meters, that's even less messy. From the meter, it's a mains wire up to your breaker panel (consumer unit), usually on the wall of a small room where the all of the technicals are done, usually next to the washing machine.
RCBO double pole protected are crazy epensive .. a normal braker is mabye 8 to 12 euro .. RCBO wil proably cost 50 euro ..and has to be dual pole protected ( reason if because still lots of 3X230V in Belgium ) . But yes for slectivity it would be nice ..but has no sence if you have 300mA standaard ( non selective )RCD ...chances are big it wil trip also ( in uk there is no MAIN RCD )
@@kittsdiy True. Although Siemens makes them VAT inc for 30€ (Conrad), and I suspect price would go down if they weren't a specialty item. But given it's normally a one time cost and usually the time is much more expensive than the material, I would at least like to see this available for sockets.
Or maybe we can replace the 30mA system we now have with RCBOs instead and keep the normal stuff on a separate 300mA RCB.
Anything but the "trip all of things" scenario we have now...
@@Dries007BE nope that are RCD's .. still need a fuse behind it .. RCBO = RCD + MCB combine in 1 device . And those are expensive in Belgium and not very common . ( 45 a 65 euro at conrad siemens and are also 1P+N .. so probably not ok for inspection in Begium ...
@@kittsdiy On Conrad they have the Siemens 5SU1356-6KK16 for example, which is an actual RCBOs. If you look for "differentieelautomaten" at zelektro or elektramat, they also have them, with varying prices, but 25€ seems to be the cheapest option.
But you are right on the 1+N thing, so maybe it should only be allowed in situations where it makes sense (3x400+N for example).
Although I admit I don't quite get why this would matter too much, there must be a reason why they're marked as L and N instead of 1 and 2.
I’ve have certainly never understood why in the UK double busbar consumer units aren’t standard since boards are now fully populated with RCBOs, to me fly-leads to the neutral bar is a bizarre arrangement and untidy.
If you were to hop over to Germany for a bit, I could show you around some new, fairly new and ancient 3-phase units in one place. And show you how those label windows on these breakers are used properly. ;)
I think this French system is what we use in Eastern Europe and also in Germany. The only difference is we use quite a lot of single pole MCBs (shared neutral) behind RCD (or RCBO) instead of dual pole MCB, also triple phase is quite popular in some areas where single phase is limited to 32 Amps and triple phase is the only way to get more than that.
Oh, forgot to mention, the white box above the Linky should have seals on it, the supplier uses it to shut the supply down for meter work etc. Used to be a solid neutral link and fuse for phase. Three phase low current supply is quite common.
No way the French -- or anyone else around the world -- would call a breaker box a 'consumer unit'. Sounds like a term that an economist came up with.
German:
Hauptverteilung - Main distribution
Unterverteilung - Sub distribution
Bureaucratic German:
Niederspannungshauptverteilung - Low voltage main distribution
Colloquial
Zählerschrank - Meter cabinet
Sicherungskasten - Fuse box
Silly name for a main panel. It is only a relatively new name.
Personally (From a British perspective) I find it quite descriptive - Everything in and south of it is consumer adaptable¹, everything north of the main switch should be left entirely to the professionals. 👍
(¹ - Assuming you have the due competency to do the work. It's consumer adaptable as in _„The competent consumer may install additional circuits if required“_ (e.g: New shower/HVAC circuit) as opposed to _„The equipment is designed to be usable by anybody with no prior training“_ (Plugs, switches) 😇)
It is a unit on consumer premises.
It is accurate and descriptive.
They've been called "consumer units" for as long as I can remember - and I'm nearly sixty.
Hi, as an Spanish person, I find this consumer unit common. However I find award the location of the principal fuses and meter. In Spanish houses, the fuses and meter are always placed outside the house (in the fence) and all buildings must have a meter room (located near to the door) for all fuses and meters of all apartments. Then the consumer unit must be placed somewhere accessible the nearest to the exit door as possible.(Not in the living room)
And we do things like that for a reason. Imagine the wires that feed your house start burning, it is logical to have a fuse outside your home that will protect you! Or imagine in a buiding a short circuit occurs in someone's feed wires, it is logical to have a separate feed to that appartment that will shut off and not all of them because someone had an electrical fault.
It's the same in Poland. Only UK is weird
Other than the location, this consumer unit is just like the one in my house in the UK, so not that weird really. Given that this is the standard requirement these days, there can't be that many homes in the UK that don't have these now.
The U.K. has always been weird - even since the days of Queen Victoria.
There were no safety regulations of any kind - resulting in many fatal
accidents. Study the history of the Victorian era.
Love the push fit connectors. Little chance of a loose connection from incompetence.
Yep. We always terminate our cables with WAGO TopJob S or Phoenix PTI 2,5-PE/L/NT installation clamps, to separate the cabling inside the cabinet from the building.
It makes it so much nicer to bring a unit you wired, labelled & tested in the workshop onsite and just push in the wires.
I find it shocking where the UK crams their consumer units. In the states the current code for load centers requires 75cm wide, 90cm deep, by 2 meter tall clear area for an electrician to stand. The area directly above and below the panel, the side of the panel, can’t have anything else in that wall cavity but electrical. You often see the load center in a hallway etc cuz that’s where there is enough space to meet the working room for electricians. The way the French unit is, wouldn’t even meet code for minimum space.
In our latest code 2023 Each one of our breakers is also its own GFCI(RCD) now.
Lovely consumer unit. Looks exactly like mine in Ireland :) Had it installed 2 months ago during a Solar installation. My electrician was just as neat with all the labeling.
hi really nice video and like to have a external input about our electrical system ^^
on your main breaker (the Bako one) the fuse can be set to something between 15 and 45 amps. it was set up by the electricity provider (Enedis who is in charge of the puplic electrical network up to houses) but now with linkys being mandatory, they are all set to the max and the linky is configured remotely to the plan you’re using ^^
if you’re interested about how the linky works and how it’s implemented i recommend you the channel Monsieur Bidouille who made a video in Enedis labs (only automatic subtitles avaliable tho)
Our rules for electricity in residential is NF C 15-100.
Old houses have also ugly electricity installation like UK, with fuses.
The DTI is for testing old cooper PTT arrival (phone and ADSL internet). Useless now with fiber connection.
Coaxial TV repartitor, is compulsory but also useless now with fiber and TV by internet.
Ethernet dispatch and 2 16A sockets are compulsory for Internet provider box and other (like Fiber converter we call it PON/ONT). Number of ethernet outlet is based on number of rooms (see NF C 15-100). The biggest flaw in french installations is the lack of neutral in light switch, we go from breaker with phase, then to the switch, then DCL (central point of the ceiling for the bulb), then go back with neutral to the breaker. Not very upgradable for smart control lightning.
Saves having the messy neutral fly leads.
SBS did the same in the UK but they went belly-up after only a few years on the market.
This is not meant to be antagonistic but as you recently had your business go through a parlous state (whilst you were travelling the Far East) that resulted in having to make redundancies I would have thought you would not have been in such a hurry to work relocate in such a short space of time.
Rather have the foreign lifestyle and make people in the UK redundant than give up his foreign work. Nobody cares about the UK anymore!
@@8skellerns No'body' cares because all the bodies are DEAD
and buried in the cemetery.
GO check it is full of BODIES
BTW --
HOW MANY OF YOU ARE THERE IN EXISTENCE ON THIS EARTH ?
When you have answered the question
write an essay on the importance and significance of ' one '
That is your homework for this week
And a FREE lesson in correct grammatical legal English
besides which - you would not know how many types of
English there are - nor could you define them
French electric regulation is RFC 15 100. You can find very comprehensive pdf summaries on Legrand and haguer’s websites. Very easy to read and understand
NFC......... ;)
@@pandyinfrance3065 merci pour la correction
Hey, a 2 second cameo!! Nice! I still haven't been back, homeowner is not concerned about that unplanned earth / ground. Nice set up at that apartment, but looks expensive! Very neat and organized, I wish that was here. lol
Hello,
In France, AC type RCD are allowed for everything but appliances with inverters like EV charger, washing machine, induction hobs... For these A type (or F or B) RCD are mandatory.
Also there is a rule saying you can't have more than 8 breaker plugged into one RCD, which is not enforced here 😅
That's the point, inverters are the only likely source of DC leakage, although some think any switching mode power supply might as well, which means at least every desktop computer should be on a type A RCD.
@@Ragnar8504 EVs are also a source of DC leakage, but the DC detection is usualy done in the wallbox.
At home, I only have type A and type B RCD, not type AC as they are useless now.
I'm surprised that you could take off this cover of the main fuse... I'm an electrician in France, you have no right to touch anything before the lower part of the isolation switch / RCD 500mA. If you remove the green cover from your 'linky' (this you're allowed to do) you can acces the contact for the 'heures creuses', which is the cheaper electricity by night if you subscribe an option to get it (than for the day you pay more!). It's just a simple contact NO, commanded by the provider of electricity.
maybe it only matters for high current devices?
You should take a look into a modern German home
That's a great proposal, I would be interested about his thoughts.
In Germany the whole main installation with the meter(s) and communication devices will be a metal enclosure (meter cabinet), which is isolated on the inside. There is a three-phase-supply on every building and the cable from the grid provider is terminated in a dedicated box. In contrast to french electrics only the phase is switched by the MCBs and type AC RCDs are forbidden. Installations in conduits are rare, most cables are directly laid into the walls. In addition there are standards for everything and similar to the UK testing the installation with measurement devices is required.
Bonjour,
There's some french electrician on CZcams ("les disjonctés" for exemple). You might try to talk to some. As they are CZcamsrs, they might be more open minded about making a video and explaining "stuff"
Linky is the smart meter installed by EDF and their providers. In our are the distribution company installed us a smart meter from Sagem (it is light gray).
The French invented the MCB!(Le Diruptor) I was installing French MCB'S in M&S 40 years ago and they could be adjusted via an Avometer, plus they were push button! Yes that long ago, when we were still using rewireable fuses!! Oh and one other thing, combi boilers? yes a French invention also, using them at least 50 years ago!
France has choice of 15-30-45 amps...your monthly electricity bill 'line rental' varies on this choice
As a man living on a UK supply with a rated maximum of 100A (But normally never drawing more than 5A at once) I'm always surprised at how well adjusted I am to EU power supply limitations despite having the current availability of six French flats! 😳
There are very good comments from Germany so far. My bit to say is, that I like the double switch system you showed in the video. Even when it is from Hager, I didn't know it, as I haven't seen these so far in installations. But it's really cool stuff. In Germany it is also common practice to power the circuit breakers from downside and connect the loads upper as leading the cables outside of the box.
Very interesting on the new stuff it would be interesting to see some of the older properties wiring. That's some commute you've introduced for yourself !!
Haha true 😂
You do not want to see old French wiring! Even 70s/80s wiring is quite shocking to us. Things have improved greatly in France.
@@johnburns4017 One thing that constantly amazes me even in fairly new wiring is singles in trunking. It's legal over here only if the trunking can't be opened without using tools, and regular old trunking definitely can.
@@Ragnar8504
plastic trunking in the UK needs a screwdriver to prise the lid off. So a tool used.
@@johnburns4017 Memories of my first trip to Paris (mid 90s) include cafe toilets where the (Hopefully!) neutral leg of the light was wired through the lock on the door, as the light would illuminate as soon as the bolt came into contact with the hasp. I very quickly adopted the habit of (un)locking the door with a few layers of folded toilet paper as insulation... ⚡
Nothing to do with perceived danger, mind you. I was just aware that I don't have nearly the same degree of _Resistance_ as the French. 🇫🇷💯😇
The Netherlands and Switzerland do not differentiate between socket and light circuits. Wires are in conduits and rings are not used. 3 Phases are common for residential installations. The MCBs are double-poled, mostly 10 or 16A and there are multiple RCDs.
In Switzerland, the meter and the main fuse must be accessible from the outside, the consumer unit can be anywhere. In our case in the cellar. The main fuses are not sealed. These are round fuses that are screwed in. The amperage is also coded by the diameter of one end, so you could mount a smaller fuse in the holder, but not a bigger one.
In the Netherlands, RCDs have been mandatory since 1960 or so.
Another interesting component in Switzerland is the STOTZ (Stromstoßschalter). It is a bi-stable switch that is used to control lights with multiple switches, for example in corridors. One pulse switches on and the next pulse switches off. So, instead of DT and cross switches, you can have any number of momentary switches in parallel.
The weirdest installation I came across was in the 1970s in the inner city of Delft (NL) Here, the phase and neutral were at 110 Volt relative to earth. This required consumer units with a fuse in the phase and in the neutral.
Well it's stupid not using ring circuits. and massive radial ones can cause fires as they are like extention cables and when they are using it too much will go on fire like and lighting circuits should be only a certain size (sq metres) if not could start a fire due to so many lights on in that circuit and that's being a good electrician as in the future of these circuits it can be modified or made bigger and that's how it causes fires and problems and people should know that like 👍
@@GordonKay-ro1rs The wiring is all 2.5 mm2 and fused with a maximum of 16 A.
You should look at a 30+ year old house in the Netherlands or Germany😜 electricity in the house you shown was still an afterthought.
Something interesting you could look at is ABB Busboard.
Supply goes through the Linky then the rcd, the terminals on the rcd "out" are not sealed
I remember wiring a house up in France 30 years ago using Hager breakers, it was decent stuff, they did DIN rail mounted time clocks for lighting etc back then too.
The trouble with the consumer unit that low is that it’s also easily accessed by kids too!
I’m in the UK in a 19 year old house and the fuse box is reachable for an adult within reason, is there a set height here?
Note the French don’t do ‘ring mains’ they never identified the live and neutral at the wall socket either and some plugs can be inserted either way around do live neutral reversed.
The French tend to run single strings from sockets back to a breaker, makes for a lot of wires at the board.
I seem to remember they introduced a standard for L and N at sockets recently, N on the left if I'm not mistaken. Only earthed plugs are polarised, all non-earthed plugs fit either way, which renders the fixed positions in the socket rather useless, especially considering most appliances these days have double-pole switches and the ones that don't (table lamps, etc.) are most likely to be class II.
I assume dedicated circuits are required for most larger appliances, as in pretty much every country with socket circuits
We in the UK need to put the ring circuit to bed and loose our adversion to 3-phase in domestic premises. We also need to be less concerned with "polarity". With the euro 2-pin non-polarised socket, polarity can't be guaranteed to the appliance, so who cares if the ES lampholder is wired live to shell? What kind of person would stick their fingers in a lampholder, ES or BC? Another continental european thing is the trend for all insulated class 2, no metal, no earth required.. In my experience only places like kitchens and damp areas such as bathrooms have the CPC taken to a socket. Washing machines in bathrooms? No problem, sockets by sinks not an issue. 3-phase cookers no issue, This way the supplier can dispense with the 100A service fuse. and use something more appropriate. 0.75mm2 flexes protected by 16A devices, no fused plugs with 3A fuses here. A few years ago, there was a committee looking into why UK hospitals and other public buildings are so expensive to build compared to the European counterparts, you can see why on the elctrical installation side. All our regs are supposed to be harmonised with the IEC, really? In the UK we are over engineered and it produces very little benefit for the end user. We have very little standardisation with everyone condeming everyone else's work, making the industry look like a bunch of cowboys. Consumer unit "upgrades" are a good example., remember wi unit fires ? Very rare with traditional fuseboards and rewirable fuses.
@@ericthelan2188 This!
I have the same feeling that the UK is a total outlier in many ways (not just the sockets).
This means, that many really good solutions can not be sold in the UK (solar inverters, induction hobs), while the industry in Britain is saved from competition and does not innovate at an international rate.
Also, it is quite interesting to see how few UK sparks know anything about DALI and KNX, which would be often a life-saver for rewire projects.
@@Ragnar8504 Federal Republic of Germany here! At Bundespost (state post company [government own]) since around 1920 at SCHUKO [SCHUtzKOntaktsteckdose] (literally safety contact power outlet) they use the standard that from front view are left is neutral and right is phase, up and down is saved earth / cpc. My teacher in electrician company works there for many years after this electrician people worked around overall in West-Germany so it started to be a "standard" here. They influenced it with work in every colonies and working as teacher into other countries where we Germans was be after the second world war. So do you can found the Schuko around the world if they not use the British system. 😂
So we use N-L at every modern installation in mostly the houses. If you marked N same the musicians do in musical equipment do you can put in right too, other is that the power cord "hanging down" hardwired on the plug if it produces inside European Union.
@@OldLordSpeedy That's a Bundespost tradition but not an official standard (VDE or anything). The only official consensus seems to be that you should keep all sockets in one house the same. Asking "Neutral left or right?" is a good way to start a flame war among Germans on the internet. Some people say "L on the left" and others "R (from the old phase designations RST) on the right". Both equally correct, unless your employer has specific company guidelines.
The best theory I've ever read was that you should install horizontal sockets (turned 90 degrees) phase up so it takes longer for the water level to reach the phase in case of a flood. As if those 19 mm were likely to matter.
In the UK, lack of space and price of installation in older properties is a driver for locating CU in obscure places.
I recently had a new CU installed in my bungalow, and we were trying to decide on the best place to put it, because I wasnt happy where the existing one was.
It had to be relatively close to the incoming meter feed, otherwise the cost of wiring (and labor) between the CU and that would have been excessive.
I could have put it in the entrance hallway, but that is quite narrow, and it would have stuck out into the hallway space.
In the end, there wasn't any other practical option, so it ended up in the same place as the one it was replacing: Inside a cupboard in the master bedroom (which being a bungalow is at ground level). It also had to be at the top of the cupboard to prevent it accidentally being covered by stuff. So not great, but what can you do?
hi there, nice vid about the french elektrics, i'm next door in belgium. i am an electrical inspector btw :). its interesting to see how the french do it. here in belgium you are not allowed to use a type AC DIfferential (RCD) only a type A or in some cases when you have battery you have to use a type B. i wonder what other rules are different in france since our elektrical grid is based on the french, like in belgium you have to have since 2023 1 differential per 8 wall outlets. and dedicated line for washing machine, oven, and everything over 2600W. also the differential in belgium has to be max 300mA instead of the 500mA.
anyways like to see elektrics in other country's :)
yep and also the neutral is not protected ( just switched together withe the live ) i believe in these fuses .. we cannot use these in Belgium for example .
The 500mA differential is the main breaker. It is loosely to protect from fires while the Consumer unit RCDs are to protect people.
The main differential disconnector is also a failsafe in case the consumer unit RCDs fail.
@@johnburns4017 we have the same in Belgium 300mA RCD type A ( but not with mcb inside ) in the same consumer board. At the meter we have normal mcb of 40.A in case of single fase
@@johnburns4017 unless i'm missing something they do different in france, the 500mA always indicates that it is a differential and does not protect againts overload, unless it is a breaker/differential combo, ( also a differential and a RCD is the same thing). i think the french do the same thing as in belgium first in line is the main breaker from the meter, then its the differential/RCD and that has the 500mA indicator.
@@playercloof
It is:
*1)* earth leakage (500mA usually);
*2)* Over-current (adjustable on many).
*3)* fault protection;
This! Finally, you state what most international sparks think… 3-phases, multiple DIN-Rails And your French Hager box does not even have „Quick Connect“ and vertical bus bars. UK Electrics is just hopeless.
The video does not even touch on the absence of ring mains everywhere else in the world apart from the UK.
9:07 MFS720 Hager is 1P+N C type RCB . Double pole Type C . Single pole proected. ( the N pole is not fused but is switching together with L ) in Belgium not allowed . in DL / UK / NL i guess allowed .
In France I believe you are charged via that smart meter in VA rather than W, so unless you have good power factor correction you’re getting mugged off!
i bet power is cheap there anyway with all that nuclear power haha
@@Stefan-wl1xk - Your comment prompted me to look it up. It is a little cheaper than the UK price cap but not a lot. Charging in VA probably more than swallows the difference. With the capacitive reactance of nearly every appliance nowdays due to the prevalence of switch mode power supplies, many appliances are using significant VA even when in standby and drawing almost no watts. I’ve seen one of those outside lights that switch on automatically when it gets dark tested on CZcams. It drew very little wattage when in the off condition, but nearly as much VA as when it was on. In France there would be no point in using it. You might as well get an ordinary light and leave it on all the time! In France to avoid a high bill you would need to be religious about switching things off at the wall outlet or unplugging rather than just using standby mode.
I've come across a board like that in UK 4 years ago, sparks came from Germany to do the install years ago!!
If French/German boards *are* acceptable under UK regs, I think I might've just found a safer upgrade for my 14th edition CUs... 👍
(Just don't tell a certain Mr. Farage... 😉)
@dieseldragon6756 that's what the departures section of the certificate is used for😎
We just had ours redone couple months back, added 2 new circuits, changed our main breaker that has to be changed by the electric company, funnily enough the tech was British but working here lol. I think we went to a 45a main. We used to be on a 30 that would randomly trip. Our electric plate was also plugged into the wall. Was fine cause we only used one plate but now it's so much better.
P.S. I had no idea you were in Marseille, I'm in Nice so we're not too far :).
I think the ‘cumulus’ circuit is there for the EDF to be able to remotely disable the water heater during peak demand periods. I vaguely recall that there was such functionality built into the ‘geyser’ (as we used to call it) circuit when I was a youngster living in South Africa
Yeah I think you’re right!
@@artisanelectrics I think it’s called ripple control
In France it's pretty common (depending on your subscription) to have cheaper electricity during the night and/or around noon. The "cumulus" (which is the name of a range of water heaters from the brand Atlantic) is connected through the contactor and works only during these periods
I think it's possible but it's extremely rare that EDF uses that way to reduce power demand during peaks
The 2A breaker is to protect the contacter which turns the hot water heating on depending what hours are cheap rate on your contract. Heurs Creuse is cheap rate and heurs Pleine is full rate. In my case the hours for heurs Creuse start at 23:36 and end at 07:30.
If you push the buttons on the Linky you can see instant current consumption, kWh for day and night, maximum current ever drawn for the house and the linky is already setup to measure how much you've injected back into the network if you have solar panels. This is under Index Injection on the Linky.
We have ABB busbars, single bar that has three phase copper strips inside and it’s attached at bottom side of breakers.
I am surprised that they are still using split load boards and not RCBO's.
Double pole RCD & adjustable MCB main switch is an excellent solution to the incoming supply.
All RCBO's should be double pole imho.
I have used the push in terminal bars before in NIGLON consumer unit and they are the way forward!
Good video, cheers!
Double pole is just useless as you alway have the neutral at the earth potential, so can't have a huge flow of current if it touch earth. Double pole is mandatory when you have 220V between phases, and you have 110V to ground in the "neutral" as this is not happening anymore as all is upgraded to 230/400V. RCBO are really overpriced and llosing just the half of the house if something get wrong is not a big thing to deal with. And as all overcurent protection cut the neutral, it's easy to flip all down, the reset the RCB and flip the rest up one by one until the RCB cut to locate the fault. As it's TT and not TN an eath fault is never a short circuit.
@@lapub. RCBOs in the UK at least are not particularly expensive and I for one find it massively inconvenient to lose half the circuits in the house. I did not, for instance, appreciate the loss of power to the refrigerator and freezer when I was away from home due to water getting into the PIR detector on an external light.
@@TheEulerID The cheapest RCB is 25€ while a simple breaker is 5€. There is "minimal mandatory" configuration and "recommended" one. So you can have RCB dedicated for freezer and fridge "Hpi" that are less prone to false triggering but cost 200€, you can dedicate one for the outside and so on.
@@lapub. I can get MK RCBOs in the UK (retail) for £14.40 inc VAT (17 Euros). MCBs are £2.88 inc VAT, or around 3.5 Euros.
My fairly new MK consumer unit (steel enclosure) with 10 RCBOs cost £179.94 including VAT, although adding surge protection was another £32.82 including VAT. So about £210 or 250 Euros. When the requirement for a couple of RCDs and the larger enclosure required for a split-RCD configuration is factored in, then the full RCBO configuation is about £70 more. Frankly, over the life of the unit the cost is trivial. It costs me £70 to refuel my car.
That is for a 4 bedroom detached house with an exterior detached double garage with power.
Have a similar hagar setup in CH. I note a lot of the consumer unit was done off site before installation. The just the circuits are attached when installed.
Looks like DTI I would assume it's something like dutch telecom looks like they're using ethernet to the premise or that box includes a DSL router Plus switch and then the patch panel with the Keystone jacks not all inserted properly haha. The coaxial could be aerial or it could be cable / satellite TV depends on the house I'm not familiar with the french system that much. It's a neat little box I wish we had some thing like that in the US. Our data services and such come in on a box on the outside which is used as a demarcation for billing purposes if they have to work on something in the house versus outside the house delineates the property line. But those are individual per each service. so to have them all neatly tucked away in a one box is kind of nice. I am a geek for anything data power infrastructure.
it's great here, moved over 10yrs ago got connected to the mains and as the nice man was leaving asked him when he'd be back to connect the consumer unit. He said he won't be and I can do but make sure the feed in is switched off or i'll be dead.
So i did a quick internet search and fitted it . I'm still alive.😁
Bon weekend
The Type A RCD is necessary for equipment this may generate a DC offset (might have a DC component).
This includes any type of equipment that will use a chopper circuit so that the the current usage is not always strictly sinusoidal.
Examples of such equipments would be: motor speed control, induction cooker etc...
My guess is that an AC RCD uses a differential current transformer as a detector and thus cannot detect this DC offset.
The type A RCD must either have a secondary detection system or a completely different one that can detect any kind of leakage (AC and DC)
The DTI connector is connected directly to the incoming copper line and is mandatory. It is supposed to be devoid of any local equipment (capacitors, filters etc...)
It is there for fault finding purposes. If a technician needs to know if the fault comes from outside or the local equipment it is easy to find that out.
The rest of this DTI box is mean to allow reorganizing of the RJ45 connector(s) as phone line (ADSL), data network (ISP box) or even television (Cat 6 minimum ?)
The current limitation of the main RCD is linked to the fixed tax you pay, the provision for the maximum allowable current draw.The Linky meter is connected first BEFORE the mains RCD. Basically anything before the output side of the main RCD is considered "no touchy".
If you temper with the equipment or cause any damage, you will be fined.
Old French wiring was Red White Blue before EU Harmonization
Very patriotic :-)
Hi Jordan, greetings from Malta. Here in Malta we ended up on type F RCDs beacuse of harmonics in the supply due to lots of PVs and aircon with DC inverters in the compressor units.
The Germans are pushing type F as well but the general consensus seems to be if something is sold to the general public it needs to work safely on a type A RCD to be compliant.
My consumer unit is right by my front door and only means of exit in case of fire
I have to update the electrical in my home because of two reasons. 1. We need more capacity, and 2. Our breaker panel is one that should have been replaced in the 1970s due to 25% failure rate, 100% of which result in the house burning down. I already think UK electrical is far superior to US electrical. But that bar just got raised. And I'm feeling like a cave man now. 😂
Got our Linky last summer. Wasn't optional. So I suspect most folks have them by now. It was a five minute swap, just hooks on to teh same base plate as the previous meter.
In denmark 3phase is normal for domestic CUs
Same in quite a few European countries. Austria, Germany, Switzerland and Scandinavia are mostly three-phase, Hungary is a mixed batch, as are Czechia and Slovakia. Most other countries are largely single-phase for domestic supplies.
I don't think most DNOs in Austria and Germany even offer single-phase supplies these days, the smallest you can get is 18 kW (25 A per phase). Some areas in Germany are 63 A per phase by default, even for the tiniest flat. That's a bit ridiculous if you ask me.
I noticed this when I was in France they use MCB’s for individual circuits and put a whole row on 1 RCD. In Australia we use individual RCBO’s for each circuit. Wouldn’t this be a major nuisance during a fault on any circuit? Is this just older French homes or is this still standard practice?
1500W for a water heater seems very low. Here a 275L water heater (eg) has two 4500W elements. Top thermostat heats the top third (near the outlet), when it is hot enough it switches the line down to the lower thermostat to heat the bottom (water inlet part). Takes about 3 ½ hours to heat a cold tank to hot but probably shower ready in 1 hour (top).
New tanks have a third element of 800W at the bottom to heat small amounts of incoming water. This is for the utility's benefit to tame peaks - thus they subsidize the purchase of them.
Double pole busbars should become standard in the UK.... It would solve the ridiculous fly lead situation for RCBOs and AFDDs
The UK is in serious decline.
Don't expect too much.
I think that they could be dangerous as if anything was to bridge them out or something fell on them could create a fault and some people might not realise this and think it's the installation and waste alot of time looking for the faults lol 👍
I live 2hrs North of Marseille & our new electrics are almost identical to yours but with contractors for multiple light switches for 1 light. Old houses only have earthing in kitchen & bathroom sockets because only lighting was ever really plugged in...the olduns call sockets 'luminaires 'for this reason.
I have a 240v socket next to my bathroom sink, there's no fuses in plugs, plugs stick out too far, there's no on/off switches on sockets, back boxes are massive so wall lighting is difficult to mount, almost all extension reels are damaged because the design of the plugs & sockets too crap to move the protective pin covers.. but there are no ring mains.
It's swings and roundabouts I guess... but I want one-off switches on sockets !
Bon continuation
Hello , Mark here.. Long time subscriber, living in the south of France, close to Le Vigan. I have been using you as reference for years now. I have had to redo all the electricals in our old house to just make it safe and updated from the 80s nonsense they had going on here. The top RCD is also ment for industrial use (washing machine, heating) anything with higher long use. It is to robust for general use as I think it's tolerances are different. You are correct about the DC leaks, as you can have hight peeks when using electric motors or heating elements. If you ever pass by the Cevennes , you can always pass by and cry over my consumer unit, (it is only temporary untill we finish the house). Love your work, and glad to see your amazing French electrics. See ya.
The Dutch have the same thing. most times our fuse boxes are in the hall. (usually in a closet)
I live in Belgium and just had my "tableu électrique" replaced and looks just the same. How is your French coming along then?
Smart meters like smart motorways are a misnomer
been in a hotel in paris where i hardly dare to touch the light switches. Aperently they have come a long way. This is neat!
In belgium it is allso required to have 2 different rcds. It is not realy based of the type of load that is behind it but in stead of the environment it will be in, low risk environments will have a 30mA rcd, these are dry rooms for example. And on the 3ma rcd those are the high risk environments like bathroom, kitchen, outside. Every breaker that is not safety voltage aka below 30v are dubble pole breakers.
Double pole Single width MCBs have been used for more than 10years. Along with push fit connections. Also in many homes you can get 400 volt supplies.
Where?
@@johnburns4017 3-phase/400V to the property is standard procedure in most European countries for decades.
In Germany at least since the 1970s.
Today the UK is somewhat an outlier with the default of a single phase to the building.
@@maxking3
Not really. Most are single phase into domestic homes, with odd countries like Denmark with 3 phase I think into all homes.
Three phase into a home that draws no more than 30-60 amps is totally unnecessary complexity, and overkill.
The UK is single phase with supplies being maximum of 100 or 110 amps. Only very large homes are three phase.
I have seen large homes drop from three phase to single phase on house renovation, as appliances and lights use far less electricity than 60 years ago.
@@johnburns4017 Utter nonsense.
„For all the leaps forward the UK has made in terms of renewables, sustainable development, and energy efficiency, it remains a fact that supply to our homes pre-dominantly uses pre-WWII electrical standards. The majority of UK homes run off a single-phase supply with one fuse“
Search for: givenergy
the-growing-call-for-three-phase-electricity-in-the-uk
When heating turns from gas to heat pump and vehicles are overwhelmingly electric and most roofs have solar panels you won‘t get by without 3-phases.
110A with 230V= 25KW
My car charger has 22KW, so I don‘t feel like I need to discuss the limitations any further.
In France the max high for the top line of a panel is 180cm and the same for the main breaker. Tooday with the Linky meter i see more and more fixed main breaker because the Linky cut the power if it's over the subscribtion. Type A RCD (detect DC current) is mostly for kitchen appliances. But the N°13 microwave should be on the type A and why light ???? may be to avoid add one more type AC RCD..... I'm not very sure for the type A for the kitchen because i don't work on residantial unit but monsty on indistrial or tertiary (School, EHPAD, market, dental office,.....). Yes it's a very beautiful panel but... i think this electrician had some time to do that unfortunately it's not the case everywhere.... :( but the worst bus bar i hate this one on the first line. Blue is neutral but live could be everything except blue and yellow/green. Cumulus or ballon d'eau chaude or ECS = water heater; the contactor is drive by the Linky on "Heures creuses" generally from 23H00 to 6H00 BUT it's need a special subscription to the electricity service. You can see the CT is on 1 position mean allways ON. For me it's mean you don't have the subscribtion because the CT switch to auto in the middle position automatically when the signal is present. The box on the top of the meter is maybe the main feed with fuse but it's should be sealed as the same of the top cover of the breaker and the meter (under the green cover) you can't open this box normally.... The main arrive to the fuse, to the meter and to the main breaker. The delivery point is under the main breaker; everything on the top is part of distribution network property of electrical services ERDF. You have one thing to NOT change in UK your plug!!!!! You have a fuse in it.Yes in France it's not really need but a fuse in the plug rated for the device is the best thing ever !!!!! I'm a bit scared when i see 0.75mm² cord on some devices with no fuse connected to a socket at 16A (or 20A is the max).
That is an extremely neat install! I am curious to see if it's common in France. Here in Spain the level of work is horrendous, and I am not being dramatic. I am a DIYer and I know l am not supposed to do much on my own but my level of neatness and even safety is higher than all of the professionals I had doing work in my house, and they were not cheap. All relatively safe but outdated (AC RCDs everywhere in this year's work) and you do not want to lift up the covers.
Most setup will be like that just the wite routing will be better or worse. But for the rest, since you have to get a consuel (validator) to go and check your installation toward complience before getting a green card to be allowed to get attached to the grid by Enedis. And if the setup is not clean, a consuel will go deeper to find what has been done in depth 😁 so people tend to make things clean not to ne bothered by the consuel strick rule checkings. The consuel will then only focussed on security rules like proper earthing, wire size/point number/tarint of RCB... Plus the security of rooms with water source (minimum distances, grounding of metal parts,etc)
The problem in Spain is, I believe, from what I read, its really expensive to be a registered Electrician...so there are just not many about : / This makes prices imbalanced and quality all over the shop.
@@antelectric8554 If that's the case - And given ReNFE's excellent reliability - ADIF must be paying out a Kings ransom in keeping their pool of electricians on the books! ⚡🛤💸😳
Also: If that's the case...Is there a skills void in the Spanish electrical industry, and are they willing to fill it with folks from outside the EU (Only recently) with extremely rudimentary Español?
Love the no noncense British ring main!
In Spain usually it's next to the front door
Definitely not correct, as the AC units in that house are inverter units, which is the type of circuit why type AC and F RCDs were introduced as they leak in DC or in high armonics. Here in Spain, there is a maximum of 5 breakers per RCD
In France maximum is 8 RCD by Differential RCD and there is a computation rule to follow to sync the rating of the differential RCD and the RCD rating. Car charger/plug have to get a dedicated deferential/RCD. Heavy load have to get a dedicated RCD (like a oven...).
1:06 Is the consumer unit not in a closet, an inaccessible corner or under the ceiling?
9:50 I like that the fuse switches off the hot phase and the neutral conductor.
In Germany only the hot conductor is protected.
AC RCD are banned in Germany. Only types A, B or F are known here. Usually 30mA
16A breakers with only 1.5mm² are common in Germany. France uses 20A and 2.5mm² cable
Yeah double pole breakers are the future 🎉
@@artisanelectrics they where already in te 90's here in Belgium when i change my fuseboard en was in highschool :-)
TYPE AC is alo forbidden in Belgium since many years . if you have inspection this is a fail.
The two rows of breakers are one for sockets and one for lighting.
Consumer units at front doors are frowned upon by fire brigades as the door is a means of escape in case of fire. Fires do happen in consumer units with so many screwed terminals to work loose.
Others love it because they can disconnect the supply as they enter the house. A former colleague of mine was a volunteer fire fighter and worked during a flood. The first thing he did entering a house was find the DB and flip the RCD.
@@Ragnar8504
Fires are more common than floods.
@@johnburns4017 With your name, you should know.
@@Ragnar8504 You can still put a consumer unit indoors with an accessible fire switch/disconnector on the outside. That also avoids having to get close to your burning CU.
G,day from Sydney Australia. That is a very impressive consumer unit or I call it a distribution board. Thank you for teaching me about type A RCD and the presence of DC current leakage from electronics in appliances. Gee there wouldn't be much. Most power supplies to transformers have diodes (current only flows one way) and MOSFET chip in which there is a gate pin (current switch).
Don't touch the juice!!!!
or Amps
💫🌏🇦🇺
Every consumer unit I have seen has been decades old and made of metal. I'm in western Canada. Most rentals I have been in have all had consumer units older than me or they appear to be. I'm 48. I have not lived in a newer construction house until january of this year. Place I live in now is nice. But it can't handle AC in any rooms. It just trips the breaker and the landlord just says yeah no AC ever. So I have been looking for another place for months. Can't afford to move either. The funny thing is I can't even run the washer dryer at the same time! I have to run them separately which doubles the time to do laundry.
Oh & the Gran had a 3phase, low IP socket (powering a washing machine) in her bathroom on a 32A breaker until recently.
i think the "DTI" is a DOCSIS Timing Interface and it would be the responsibility of the Provider to maintain that, it means the internet & phone line previously was using a connection to the street box then coaxal from that to the premises the same way VirginMedia operate in the UK. just virgin media uses DOCSIS 3.1 now, where as i think France instead of upgrading coaxal networks for DOCSIS moved from DOCSIS to Fibre to the premises so never upgraded it past DOCSIS 3.0 the same as France has not really upgraded to VDSL2 over VSDL ( both of which is fibre to the street and then 2 twisted pair copper wire using RJ11 to the properties) since France has always used the RJ11 for Phones
HI, not a sparky here, so forgive the questions.
Do they have 3 phase or single phase.
45A, is that ~10kW max. Is ours 100A.
Do they have ring circuits. Should we change standards to get rid of ring circuits.
(possible cable overloading due to unknown break in ring).
Would be nice to hear comments.
Cheers
Push termination and wago connectors. Not a good thing. Wagos tend to fail before properly installed Marettes (Canadian name) and push termination is more of the same. I am not sure why Europeans like potential fire starters in their electrical system. That said, the consumer unit is in an accessible place and the use of conduit makes it easier to change out wire in the future.
I know our systems seem a bit more janky in North America but in some ways it's an improvement where we use actual lug-style (screw termination) connections in the panel as well as electrical devices and our panels are made of something that is more fire resistant than plastic that being steel. In Canada specifically, our switch and receptacle boxes are for the most part metal (inside the house) but we use heavy PVC or aluminum (aluminium for those across the pond and down under) on the outside.
The use of double pole breakers is a nice bit of extra redundancy but probably fairly unnecessary. We also use, for what I know, one type of GFCI (RCD or RCBO) in North America, but it comes in a couple of different form factors. It's either in breaker form (single and double pole) or in an outlet box style (could have integrated outlets or just look like an outlet-less unit). One other thing we have that I have yet to hear about in Europe is the utilization of AFCI units (arc fault circuit interrupters).
Wago became the one and alone provider of connectors in europe, quite everybody, every electrician uses exclusively this and from this very brand. Never heard about fire caused by Wagos and it's so widely used from ages that if they all brutally failed with the age, all europe will burn simultaneously it will be an amazing fire
Good video. I've heard they use solenoids rather than 2 way switch which sounds a bit overly complicated/french. I spend all my time in France camping so I've not varified. Some of the stuff you highlighted seems good though. I'd imagine some stuff better than here some stuff not as good?
Yes - we have latching relays that use a press switch to flip between on and off, from any number of press switches. As they’re latching relays they don’t pull any power except when the momentary press buttons are pushed.
Simple two-way switches are in common use in homes. But latching relays are common in staircases.
Like the push fit, the whole servicing of consumer units because screws gonna screw thing is a bit of a nonsense, particularly on a 10 year cycle (which lets be honest is about the best case scenario). Even with somebody who knows what a torque screwdriver looks like and does it's all a bit more questionable than it should be. Double pole we like, the bus bars are nice too. Shame it's Hager ;) Less convincing is the MCB rig, where's the SPD and what the heckers 40A? I do like the adjustable rating though, but give me some grunt to play with? My induction hob would pop that on its own (it wouldn't but not super far off) :) In my house the consumer unit is actually in a really nice place on the wall in the D/S toilet (new build) - doesn't mean I don't hate it though, I want a flush mount dual rail box replacing it packed with AFDDs and the works.. when I get time..
The 40A is 3-phases. Your induction hob example is already a pledge to do 3-phase to the building as a default. Add car chargers, heat pumps, boilers and it is obvious, that this is overdue.
An while we‘re at it. 2 rails are actually not really future proof.
Many countries recommend to leave 2 spare rails for future upgrades.
RCB type AC is cheaper and save only, when used with devices, which don;t modyfing shape of current. When You have eg. hair dryier with speed adjustment, and You set it at half speed, the shape of current isn't equal to sinus shape. In this case type AC may have slower response to current changes and react when currency in mA will be higher then declared and it's dangerous for human.
Type A can handle such changes in shape of current.
Type AC is used for classic devices eg. oven, classic light etc.
Type A is dedicated to charges (they works with impulses), hair dryiers, PC, TV etc.
Do i need a ground rod and a breaker box between the hot tub and the house in france?
Is tradify any good for control panel builder / software companies?