The Truth about EV Battery Life and Charging Best Practice ! | 4K
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- čas přidán 13. 08. 2023
- So what is the truth about EV battery life and charging best practice ? Are they done after a couple of years ? Does rapid charging damage them ? Should you charge to 100% ?
Well I paid my mate Moggy at Electric Classic Cars a visit so I could de-bunk the myths and misunderstanding. This video is a must for any EV owner.
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Don't listen to people with opinions, listen to people with experience, got it. Thank you very much. Great video.
Thanks for watching!
Yes like Harry's garage has some interesting views czcams.com/video/nZysvgm2_Aw/video.html
Ok, listen up. My present V90 is as new, at 92,000 miles. Previous Merc on 240,000, previous V70 on 430,000. Doing 50,000 to 80,000 miles a year and still going strong.
Next....
I learned more in that 23 min video clip, then in hours of googling. Thanks Moggy
Great to hear 👍
What’s a moggy? Name?
@@PetrolPed the only myth is that ev's are good lol batteries are JUNK!
"Don't listen to people with opinion. Listen to people with experience" Nicely said. A great video. Didn’t think I would listen to the finish, but I did. Great job! Thank you 🙏
I appreciate that!
Listen to God, not the trained/certified EV battery technicians that follow code or protocols that are placed by the management that are placed by the elite criminals to control you for profit. The truth is that EV batteries in a car need 3A or less to maintain long battery life. Fast charging will degrade the battery quickly. That is for the conventional battery cells for the general consumer.
And there are plenty of videos showing that EVs are not the future.
I've specialized in batteries for 25 years now and it really is an annoying career because so many people want to tell me how much more they know about batteries than I do. Unfortunately the vast majority of them have 10 pounds of opinion and 2 pounds of knowledge.
And they'll need 30,000 pounds sterling to replace the batteries
$60,000 American for a Hyundai ioniq 5 battery. What a joke@@michelians1148
@@michelians1148And people who power their cars by explosions of hydrocarbons have to replace their engines once they wear out, so?
@@pilotavery Yeah bro people have to spend £30K on replacing their engine every few tears. Also second hand cars need new engines too 🤪
@@michelians1148 I was being sarcastic, engines don't have to be replaced all that often and when they do it's very rare occurrence. It's the same with electric vehicle batteries. Only the very first generation of model s's are coming up for replacement and they are the older cells that don't last very long. The current generation lasts 200,000 mi and still has 90% left but the new LFP batteries currently shipping in the Tesla model 3 lasts easily 500,000 miles
We have a Chevy volt that is 10 years old and has 40,000 miles on it. We are officially an elderly couple and very rarely drive beyond the range of the batteries. We live in town and 90% of our driving is within a 20 mile round trip. If we anticipate driving farther than the range of the batteries we put the car in mountain mode . This mode essentially guarantee that the battery doesn't get down all the way on the trip before the small gas engine kicks in and starts charging the batteries. GM wants the gas engine to be used at least 10 minutes every month anyway and and has this programmed into the system. Once in a while I let the car run the batteries down until the engine kicks in in normal mode to check on battery degradation. So far we have noticed no degradation that we can notice. The car has given us 40000 trouble free miles and has so far shown no evidence of body corrosion. At this rate and our very senior driving style we anticipate this car should, barring an accident, last us the rest of our lives. Given our low electricity rates it only costs us $1.50 to drive 50 miles which ain't bad. And you guys are correct, there's an awful lot of misinformation out there concerning electric cars from people who never owned or driven one.
not everyone drives like you, and not just locally, the range anxiety, not turning on the A/C in summer nor the heater in winter to to conserve energy make it home, not working in the cold, not finding an available charger, i don't need that
Moggy is FANTASTIC!!!!
Cuts through the nonsense and explains things so simply and so well. The perfect guest. Well done 👏🏻 👏🏻👏🏻
👍
After hearing this I am going to change my charging habits. 80% is better than I thought for what I am doing. Great information video.
This should be on a DVD with one's new EV with the manual. Something simple that new owners can watch to get them going. Actually, just READ the car's manual. It is spelled out clearly... (...what manual?)
Great idea 👍
I’m a new EV driver and this video taught me so much. Thanks a million!
for more information on EVs and other things this channel is great 😁 www.youtube.com/@fullychargedshow
He taught you that 40% of your range has disappeared if you want to keep your battery in tip top condition lol
@@SuperFredc , lol... there is always a couple of you turds in the comments. I guess you have no comprehensive skills do ya, just your "opinion" which we just learned is no good.
@@SuperFredc I imagine that most people (such as myself) don't require 40% of their range for day-to-day driving needs.
@@MoonJellyGames If it suits you, it suits you. My point still stands.
As they say, every day is a day at school, that was an education. BRILLIANT, 'Don't Listen to people with Opinions, Listen to People with Experience' thanks Moggy best advice I've heard in over 50 years !! 👍
The problem with that is that even people with experience often have a reason to say what they say. Doing what he does for a living, Moggy isn't going to declare that batteries are rubbish even if they are, right? I mean: he's selling these conversions for a living.
He gains financial benefit from telling you what he does. Not saying he's lying but that it's hard to find an independent party these days. Everyone has an agenda.
@@spencerpieters5502 including you.
@@FFVoyager Absolutely! Never ask your questions to a sales guy. Find an independent source.
@@spencerpieters5502 how do you find an 'independent source' on EV battery technology who is not involved in promoting EVs? 🤔
I agree 👍
As much I dont like queues at charging points this year, I glad that you guys busted this myth. Got EV myself and first time in my life happy do not care about suspicious noises, oil change, discusting smoke around and so on. Just open doors, push couple buttons and drive. Also enjoy supercar like acceleration and power. Great stuff, thank you all, engineers!
African miners thank you.
@@phprofYTThey use cobalt to remove the sulphur, when they're refining petrol and diesel but cobalt mining wasn't mentioned until EVs appeared...🤔 🤫
@@phprofYTcobalt is used to make Dino fuel. But lithium is recycled.
@@phprofYT fossil fuel, hybrids, and full EVs all uses a battery but just different amounts. Regardless, anything that used a battery has ties to African slave labor.
This guy knows his stuff. This guy also builds and sells batteries for a living. Would have liked to see a debate format.
My favorite battery charging explanation was
"Imagine a giant double decker stadium and the top deck is full and the bottom deck is empty. All the people represent electrons. A whistle blows and everyone scrambles to get to the bottom deck. At first there are big bottle necks, then the flow starts stabilizing. The deck starts to fill up fast till you get to the final 20%. After you get to the final 20%, most seats are occupied and people spend more time wandering around looking for an empty seat. The less seats left available the harder it is for the "electrons" to find a "hole" to sit down in so it takes longer.
Nice 👌
add beer and hotdogs and then your battery loss is greater
Not quite, we are looking at moving electrons from anode to cathode. These routes are fine. We are ultimately dealing with manufacturer tolerance.
An excellent analogy, now imagine that they don't go from top to bottom in an orderly fashion but push and shove so every time they move up and down some of them get crushed and die (normal charging), then imagine there is a stampede and lots of them are crushed to death (fast charging), this explains why batteries become useless after a number of cycles, no electrons (people) left or not enough to do any work.
Why would the bottleneck at the stadium lessen then stabilise?
An hour glass seems to flow at the same rate regardless of the amount of sand on top.
I ran a Nissan eNV200 as a nationwide same day courier. Nissans are not noted for their battery longevity, they use old tech and very rudimentary thermal management (although unlike the Leaf at least the eNV has some). But after 130,000 miles in just 2 years and a huge number of rapid charges (sometimes as many as 5 a day) it still retained 90% of it's original battery capacity and therefore range. I was more than happy with a vehicle which would still be perfectly serviceable beyond 250 or perhaps even 300,000 miles with minimal repair costs, so I've stuck with an EV and wouldn't go back to a combustion car as a daily driver if you paid me.
That isn't dissimilar to the MG5 on the James & Kate CZcams channel. James did a video over-view of one of his company's MG5's, which is used a mobile EV mechanics call out/service vehicle. This particular MG5 had covered 70k miles in just 18 months. The front tyres were changed at 41k miles, and James reckoned the brake discs and pads would see 100k miles. Despite numerous rapid charges, the battery showed 96% state of health. There had been just a single failure, and that was the latch on the charging flap in the front grille.....
I know a community transport volunteer in Loughton, Essex who bought an wheelchair adapted Nissan E NV200 ex-taxi for £8k with 180k miles on the clock and it’s in viable use most days. When I say viable, at most a return trip to a hospital in Harlow, but that’s the requirement.
Oobviously happy to waste your life at an EV charging station. Some of us have better things to do with our time
Not worried about it catching fire, exploding and burning down your house while you sleep?
After the cargo ships catching fire and sinking, the spate of electric scooters catching fire overnight killing families, think I will wait until they are safer, just like with the experimental mRNA gene therapy injections, will keep watching the excess deaths increase and keep waiting for them to finish the trials and see how safe it really is 😮
Well, at least you could have written this insanely smart comment on CZcams while drinking coffee at a nice bakery while charging your car and leave it there - try this with an ice car ;-)
I was debating for months now if I should buy an electric car as my new drive. This video absolutely convinced me that it's time to go electric. Thank you! Tesla Model 3 ordered.
I did this time last year. Wouldn't go back.
Fools!
You ordered the best model available right now 👍
340 miles real world at the moment.
Perhaps it would be worth your while to watch some of the ev owner’s videos to get their perspective before you commit to parting with your hard earned money.
Furthermore, you also have to factor in the fact that this gentleman business is converting cars to electric. It is not in his best interests to say ev battery life is like a box of chocolates. His interests lie in stating that ev’s are the best thing since sliced bread.
@@andylives5575 christ
great to have videos with the people that re-use second hand EV batteries! And fascinating to hear that the problem facing lithium battery recyclers is that the batteries are staying in use and so there are very few needing recycled!
Even without battery temperature management our 2013 Renault Zoe 22Kw got to nearly 100,000 miles and the battery loss was only 9% from new so not too bad either and although we have now sold it (2 years ago) its still going fine as I keep in touch with the new owners.
your publicly admitting to driving a Renault Zoe ??
We had 2 but we dont any more lol @@BullyBoxer
The Zoe had active air cooling in the battery.The Leaf had passive cooling and that caused the problems.
Guess the fact the you can’t DC rapid charge the battery helps with longevity.
@@humphreybradley3060 The Continental version of the motor in the Zoe could be charged at 43 KW on AC.The fans would work hard when that was happening.
I took a BMW i3 as a company car back in January 2017 and over the following 4 years racked up 110K miles. Since its main use was a 160+ mile round trip commute, it was frequently getting charged from below 20% back up to 100% twice a day (overnight at home and at work) on an AC charger and I saw very little deterioration in range over that period of time. I did not rapid charge it very often, mainly because of the limited availability at the time.
Did it suffer any battery degradation over that four years?
what are you driving now?
@@whocares264 - EQC 400 and (something for the weekend…) an AMG 35
@@Hybridog - hard to tell cos I tended to drive my commute (A14/M1) with the aim of having less than 10% left when I got there - so I never drove it with maximising mileage in mind…if you get my drift 🤔
@@mick6721 😀
Thank you for bringing balance into this debate
I am a petrol head and was completely anti ev till I watched this.
What a pleasure to listen to the views of a properly knowledgeable person.
Wanna search for any videos of the conversations that this company is active with
Thanks man. Great to hear 👍
So am I Dave! My last two cars, Audi S5 with a remap to 450 BHP, then a 21 plate Hyundai i30N. I am now a proud owner of a Tesla model 3 Performace. 480 BHP and 0-60 in 3.2. What more does a petrol head need? I spend about 2-3 quid charging every week and do around 100 miles. Trust me, give them a try before you judge them. Oh and Tesla build quality isn’t great, I’ll admit that but get a good warranty and they are good at replacing everything.
There's never been a reason to be anti EV unless you got all your facts our of Jezza Clarksons arse
this video was very informative and helpful , l am tossing up wether to buy electric or stick with an engine and all the questions i had regarding electric cars you have just answered many thanks , one more piece of advice please i am thinking about the mokka e , what do you think i watched your review on it any advice would be appreciated many thanks Derek.
Glad it was helpful!
So glad to see a proper petrol head like Ped busting these myths. The Fully Charged Show does the same, but they're usually preaching to the converted. Ped's audience is the one that really needs to be re-educated. (I'm a 72 year old life-long petrol head myself)
Thanks Chap 👍
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I am an old git but you're never too old to learn. Very intuitive and it has me thinking. Keep up the good work both you and moggy. 👍👍 a thumbs up each 😄
Not sure how much of an "old git" you are lol but I bought my first EV at 63, best car I have had, 22,000 miles a year, sometimes 400+ a day, saved me a fortune!
Thanks, will do!
Thanks from a Canadian viewer. Excellent, unbiased information. Appreciate you simplifying things for me.
Unbiased was my call...perhaps "experienced user" is a better term. I'll bet many who shoot down electric cars like Tesla haters have never experienced driving one.
Glad it was helpful!
What a wonderfully comprehensive conversation!
Thanks 🙏🏻
I have the Tesla Model 3 SR+ 2021 made in china. That means it has the LFP battery. According to what I have read I should expect 1 million miles out of the battery. This means it will last me, at my currency utilization, approximately 100 years. My biggest concern is whether my great great grand children will be able to find a replacement that will fit the car in 2123. Keeps me up at night I can tell you!
🤣🤣🤣
The batt would degrade even if it was parked 95% of the time.
Brilliant video. Thank you for taking the time to do this. What a great knowledge Moggy has and he is able to explain things in understandable ways to the techno spanners (me). Will definitely go and search out his website now.
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Watched a few videos now with this guy from wales. He’s a legend with EV knowledge & what he can convert. This is the way forward for many.👍
Thanks for putting out the facts. I have a 5 year old Model 3 with 100,000 miles, and it's at about 95% of my original range. I've also paid a whopping $200 in maintenance costs (excluding new tires)... which was to replace the trunk (boot) latch. I still have the original brakes... and with regenerative braking I may never need to replace the brake pads. And with over the air updates, the car is literally better than when I bought it. I wouldn't even consider buying anything other than another Tesla.
Right on!
I guess your one of the lucky ones but what about the ones that there's burned up and there house . Or just burned-out after floods in Florida. I bought a blower it lasted a few Yeats now it doesn't work cannot buy batteries for that model . Not all batteries are the same.
@@marvkwia3973 Gas cars catch fire at a higher rate than EV's... you just don't hear about gas car fires because they're not news. Also, more manufacturers are moving to lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) which are nearly impossible to set on fire.
The combined cost savings on maintenance and charging adds up quickly, I am so happy with my M3 and will never buy ICE again.
@@aaronstock8544 I sold my M3 to my son, and my wife and I both drive MY's. I agree with you... I wouldn't drive an ICE car even if you gave it to me for free.
Very fair review, there is a lot of rubbish spoken about EV’s. I’ve had my Tesla almost 4 years and 60k miles, I’ve lost 3 miles range in that time.
Give it a couple of years and it will drop considerably. You could always buy the £3000 Tesla software update to gain an extra 50 miles range of course.. yep £3k for a software patch.
@tonygarlingewarren7456 Actually, the highest degradation occurs in the first 3 years then levels off.
You know that for a fact do you? or is it just misguided opinion@@tonygarlingewarren7456
Genuine question from a fellow EV owner. How do you know you've lost 3 miles on max range, when my max varies by 60 miles depending how I drove that day? Some days my max is 310 miles, some days it's 250. All depends on what I've been doing. Town driving vs motorway etc.
@@Nick_Smith1970
I always charge to 80%, in the summer I used to get 231 miles range, now I get 228. Not scientific I know, but the point is it’s hardly lost anything.
Another great video, as always Moggy is able to use simple comparisons between ‘combustion engine’ terminology and how that equates to the electric world. The interaction and banter between the two of you, is always fun to watch. Keep up the good work - both of you.
Thank you!
But is it thectruth?
@@Anonymous-ib8so Nope. It's a cope. EVs suck hard.
EVs are a scam battery energy density is between 200-500wh/kg, hydrogen and petrol energy density is 39000wh/kg and 13000wh/kg you cannot match these in 1000years
Great video guys. No nonsense expert advice. That's exactly what we need. Keep up the good work.
Thanks! 👍
Great video. Clear and knowledgeable explanations. Thank you!
My issue is the infrastructure - we are not allowed to charge an EV at home and there are no chargers within 5 miles (and they are also never working). As my wife is disabled we cannot ever have an EV, and it looks like this will be an issue in many flats/social housing as well
These things just take time. When combustion engines were new the only place to buy fuel was from a chemist
who is going to stop you charging your EV at home ?
@@patthewoodboy no off road parking, multi occupancy properties & not enough voltage capacity/infrastructure in some larger urbanised areas. Some electricity supply companies can turn down applications for charger installations
But that is not an EV problem, it is a landlord / infrastructure problem.
Also, how do you know your local chargers are not working because you don't have an EV? I simply do not believe that you go and check them daily.
Simple question: How many miles do you drive a day (or a week)? In the Uk the average daily mileage is just 20 miles per day. A typical modern BEV with a battery of around 50kWH can easily do 200 miles, that means you would have to charge only every ten days! If you do less mileage than this, then there is an even longer gap between charges!
You can charge an LFP battery to 100%.
Due to the different chemistry they're not as energy dense but they can be charged to 100% without the fear of excessive degradation and don't suffer the same fire risks.
LFP batteries are currently used in the smaller battery pack EV variants.
LIFEPO4 is used only in China and a limited run in American Tesla.
@@khalidacosta7133due to recently expired patents.
They will become the predominsnt battery chemistry for most 'normal' cars in the future.
@@khalidacosta7133all the rear wheel drive models are LFP both model 3 and Y which in the UK and Europe are all made in Shanghai.
MG4 standard range in UK, Tesla model 3 SR+ , others I forget (BYD?) @@khalidacosta7133
@@khalidacosta7133 Every new Tesla RWD sold in the UK for the past couple of years has been LFP.
This is the first video I've seen that might, just might, change my anti EV viewpoint. Very clear message. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the information!! As a Volvo XC40 Recharge owner in the US I found this so interesting and powerful!!! Be well....
Thanks, you too!
Love your perspective. Im a total petrohead, love the sound of a cross plane crank or 3 rotor engine. I also love electricity too. Id rather use a 3ph pressure washer than deal with a diesel driven pump. Same with yard tools and power tools, rather use ego 56v yard tools than small gas. My cheap model 3 fits the bill for commuting and convenience. Diversity works for financial portfolio and I think it applies to cars too, 3x f150 seems as stupid and 3x teslas. Americans are lucky to be able to afford multiple cars tho.
Appreciate gearheads like you being openinded.
Pedro, this video was Goldilocks! Great to have straight talk from credible experts.
Shout out to Moggy and crew. Really miss Vintage Voltage, have cycled through both seasons a couple times.
Thank you 🙏🏻
EVs are a scam battery energy density is between 200-500wh/kg, hydrogen and petrol energy density is 39000wh/kg and 13000wh/kg you cannot match these in 1000years
Highly informative, tells it straight, no technical jargon, thanks Moggy
👍
Absolutely brilliant.. We've just acquired a new Kia Niro EV for our son on his motability scheme. I'm now much more confident we made a good choice. Thanks guys.
I have a Niro EV press car this week. Very good car 👍
Gained a lot of respect for you over these last couple ev videos. You are keeping an open mind, but also a healthy dose of ev skepticism.
Combined with your own real use experiences and very honest open conversations with actual industry experts. Top shelf stuff imo. 👍🏻😎
Wow thanks for this 🙏🏻 I try and bring a balance. Next Mondays video is about diesel engines 😜👍
Very biased conversation from an EV salesman. No mention of the massive losses in battery charge and range in hot and cold temperatures. EVs are terrible both hot and cold climates. It's a scam and there isn't enough power stations to run EVs for any nation.
@@PetrolPed haha well imo we need more honest balanced journalism just like this, sprinkled with some dry whit. Seasoned with real world questions and a more mature perspective from actual real world ev user experience.
I may not watch your ice stuff (owned 80+of those in 41 years) but I'll gladly watch all your ev content especially with that car nut moggy. 👍🏻😎
@@PetrolPedlooking forward to this as I think the politicians jumped on the EV train too early! Buy the right engine for your trips, EVs for inner cities and semi local trips (until charging infrastructure catches up at least), petrol for the mid to long journeys - shorter commutes) and diesel for load lugging or high mileage users.
I saw (couple weeks back) a 3 year old diesel Passat on AUTO TRADER coming up on 105k miles, a really good buy in my opinion. All motorway miles, the perfect engine for that sort of use. No EV is going to touch that on simplicity of use, not yet anyway!
No mention on how the newer iron phosphate batteries should be / actually like being fully charged regularly (unlike Lithium ion). One for another vieod
@@BombSponge I guess Mercedes Volvo and VW don't have as smart people as you and can't see "the scam" when they announce making only EVs in few years.
Moggy always explains stuff so well and in an easy to understand way. Hopefully cleared up some myths as well
The guy has a vested interest in promoting EV's as his business is EV conversion of ICE cars. So clearly he is going to paint a rosy picture of everything EV.
No myths busted here, the mechanic confirmed that battery degradation is real over time and excess use. Most EV owners are clueless about car maintenance and abuse their vehicles, excessive charging use and overall carelessness.
@@coreybishop3768 I don't think he painted a rosy picture, just told the truth. He agreed batteries do degrade but nowhere near as much as people think and he even agreed older cars will degrade more. The truth is if you're buying a modern EV you'll never likely have to replace the battery.
@@coreybishop3768 the 200,000 mile 90% degradation figure Moggy quoted is published and widely reported data from Tesla. It’s data from early Model S and Model X cars that had done over 200k miles. So old technology compared to current batteries.
As a businessman selling expensive classic EV conversions with a high social media profile Moggy could lose a hard earned reputation if his statements weren’t based on fact.
Cheers Guys 👍
Great video, really loved it guys genuine info from seasoned people in the know, total respect to you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video with a great tone. Thanks Moggy for charismatic answers.
Brilliant, thank you. I'll be sharing this about. When I was considering a new car at the beginning of 2023, I came across your channel & it really helped in the decision-making process. Your critical but balanced view was extremely helpful. In June, took delivery of a BMW iX1 (I am or rather was a Brit -thank you, Brexit - and I do live in Bavaria). I hadn't even sat in any EV before the showroom handover. Now you couldn't get me to even consider an ICE again, although at 69, I don't expect to need to buy another car again. Yes, expensive, and I had to make compromises (towing weight), but the driving pleasure now in 2023, is even greater than when I got my first used £300, 6 Volt VW Beetle based, Beach Buggy in 1972.
One of the nicer explanations of the 0-100% charging issues was comparing it to a multi-storey car park at a shopping centre: early on Saturday morning you drive in and straight into a bay, as morning progresses you need to search about & by 11am you are spending ages driving around to find a slot. That's the process that happens when you charge - ions find their way easily to start with and then increasingly have to slow down to dock into a cell.
And for the battery degradation, it's like a well poured, unfiltered Bavarian wheat beer: the Battery with its gross/net capacity is the same as the large foam head and the last centimetre at the bottom of the glass with the yeast that you don't drink - and this is where the degradation largely takes place, especially in the first 5-10 years, not in the main body.
Greetings to Sussex - I last lived near Petworth, so nice to watch some of your reviews just for the scenery!
That would be great. Thanks 🙏🏻
Excellent piece. I love the concept of don't listen to opinion, listen to experience. Says it all
Thanks 🙏🏻
No doubt the best, understandable explanation on charging I've seen/listened to from the myriad videos available.
Thank you for the well founded advice and the added touch of humor and real life input.
Cheers!
Thanks 🙏🏻
Great and informative video for me as im looking to maybe buy the new BYD seal AWD which has byds new blade battery in but nervous about the future ie how long it lasts for ? what if you are driving through extremely heavy rain with deep surface water is this going to kill the car ? Are the motors and battery fully sealed, waterproof ? would be interested in some facts please. Many thanks.
Another excellent video Pedro! Now it all makes a lot more sense. I love the way Moggy explains everything so well and the fact that he has a passion for classic cars and is converting them to EV speaks volumes, he wouldn't do it if it didn't work long term and the maths didn't stack up. I've not been a huge EV fan up to now but that video has increased my faith quite a bit. Also, if eventually it's difficult to run an ICE vehicle due to lack of fuel supply I can always convert my Honda powered Rally Landcrab I'm currently building to electric to keep it going.
Our 2019 Model 3P has absolutely minimal degradation, and has been basically perfect since day 1.
I will NEVER EVER buy another ICE car. NOT EVER.
Yes we look after it, only very rarely charge above 90% and mostly less than 80%. In four years, I have spent ZERO on maintaining it- (have rotated tyres and flushed the brake fluid myself- though even that was not really necessary as it still tested fine.)
Thank You Guys! Of course, I knew all of that -- but Moggy is so "down to Earth" kind of Guy! Make me feel more sure of myself. Thanks!
great vid. loved Moggy's explanations. he made it so much easier to understand.
Glad you liked it!
Great vid Pete !! It’s nice to get a real expert like Moggy’s opinion on charging / batteries etc. 👍🏻🇨🇦
Thanks 👍
Lifelong petrolhead but now an EV convert. Dubious green issues aside, they are great as a daily driver, fast, smooth quiet. Still keep a classic ICE for weekends mind ;)
I am a nailed on Jag fan and loved my Jaguars, but my Tesla is the best car I’ve owned. I am so disappointed that Jaguar have not gone down the EV route. Electing to have a third-party build a car with a jaguar badge, stuck on the front.
Totally agree 👍
@@ouethojlkjn You're kidding right?? The iPace is 100% designed by Jaguar just assembled by Magna Steyr in Austria. As I understand it, Magna Steyr are building the Merc G Class, Jag iPace & EPace and some of the BMW 5 Series cars. These still belong to the respective marques. Having someone who specialises in build only is a natural progression of production engineering.
Same here! My 98th car was an EV and I love them so much more than gas cars… I have a 2017 Chevy Bolt with 250 miles range. Love love it. And yes l still have a few Petrol cars.
@@OilymoAre they even still making the iPace? 😂😂😂 It was supposed to be a “Tesla killer”. ROFLMAO
It is not even remotely close, (which is reflected in sales). I test drove one extensively and it was a huge fail compared to my Tesla in so many areas that really matter.
Yes, brilliant of you all engineers and experts on batteries, a million thanks. You folks have calmed the innocent down, someone like me. Thank you again!
Addressed nearly every question/concern that I’ve had. Thank you!
That was the first information I have seen about batteries where someone actually knew what they were talking about. So informative and valuable. Really appreciate the effort than you. Totally changed my opinion about electric cars. Right though about electric motors, I was a maintenance a reliably chartered engineer in in the oil industry for over 40 years, loved the maintenance free electric motors and hated reciprocating drivers.
Great to hear. Thanks 🙏🏻
OK I will thanks.@@petemiller519
Might not becthectruth though. He sells EVs so how objective and truthful is he?
@@Anonymous-ib8so Do you always call people liars without justification? That said if you were technically minded you could have known he was being objective and truthful.
@Anonymous-ib8so Do you need someone who‘‘s never set foot in an ev to believe him or is any ev-hater a valid enough source?
What about short charging? If I am at 40% and need to go on a long drive, do I charge it to 80/90% before leaving or do I wait to drop to 20% and then charge it on the road? Thank you for the useful video!
It doesn't matter :) However it is far cheaper to charge at home than using public chargers -- as an example 7.5p vs 75p per kWh!
Depending on multiple factors, you may be able to get a fractionally quicker journey starting with less than 100% charge (counterintuitive but can mean you spend less time charging due to faster charging at lower battery state) but definitely cheapest to charge to 100% at home so that's what I'd always do unless I needed to leave before charging completed for some reason.
This video is a breath of fresh air compared to the endless number of those floating around the web spouting gloom and doom. Very thorough. Not a lot of detail or experience with extreme temperatures (ie freezing cold), but a giant step forward in spreading truth rather than fiction.
Thank you. I’m sending links to glass half empty friends.
Thanks bud. Share away 👍
Info that may help someone. My wife owns Nissan Leaf 2016, 30kWh and 250.000km (156.000mi). SOH of the battery fell to 58%, range about 80km (50mi), in sub zero temperature it doesn't work at all. This car battery was abused, charged mostly on quick chargers, overheated randomly since it was a test vehicle for charging stations repairs and testing. Dealer wanted over 30,000€ for a new battery so I bought it cheaply. I guess, it would easily do 300,000 miles if used properly. I'm replacing the cells with slightly used ones from VW ID4, all materials will cost me about 2,500€. Maybe I'll use the leftover cells for home storage. Nissan Leafs are good for commuting to work and home, not meant for long travels. Batteries would be good, but they lack thermal management.
This video is very informative and a must watch for every EV owner.
Cracking video. So.. where I am now. Electric cars are fast, reliable and practical. The problem is the infrastructure. If only the UK had a proper Government that cared about things like that instead of lining their own pockets.
Indeed 👍
You can hear a British moaning from 5 miles away!!!! There are not perfect goverments anywhere in the world. I will vote you if you go for the next elections.
Had a Leaf from new for 4 years, done 80k miles in it and home charge to 100% most nights. Battery at 92% capacity using Leaf spy and has been for the last year.
They seem to lose around 5% in the first year and then 1% each year after that. Im told it will plateau at around 90% for the next 100k miles then it's performance will start to drop off faster. But the useful life will be around 250k +. I can live with that as im saving £2500 a year on diesel after paying for the electricity.
Its also a pleasure to drive with the smoothness of a Jaguar and id know cos ive owned 6 of them.
Thanks, but I'd rather stick with the Jag.
@@severnsea With an unlimited supply of cash, so would I.
@@stevendavis7079 Yeah, a very dear friend mine used too own a long series of Jags.... fortunately he had a (nearly) unlimited supply of cash.
They still managed to part him from a significant portion of that cash.
Future Jags will be EVs anyway.@@severnsea
@@rogerphelps9939 Won't make any difference to me.
Hi, very nice 20min, learned a lot! Thank you! I would like you to address the LFP. can/should we recharge to 100%, everyday or once a week, fast charging... and so on. It would ve very interesting a comparison between standard litium and LFPs. Thank you!
Super super video. So informative. I’m extremely grateful for all I learned off this video. Thank you 🙏
Glad it was helpful!
Great video! Super happy I found your channel!
We are on our 2nd EV...first one was a 2023 Kona EV - we put 48,000km on it in 10 months! Fantastic car...we now have an Ioniq 5 AWD Ultimate trim and it is a lovely car!
I am a car guy and love to drive and still have a couple of classics and a Toyota RAV4....they barely get driven! The EV gets all the attention!
Yes I struggle with discussions with people who have opinions on EV's but 0 experience.
In any case we will never buy another ICE vehicle....the EV gets the win!
Cheers
Mike
Dave Takes It On, Electric Vehicle Man and Fully Charged are also well worth a look too Michael......
Welcome 👍
This is very helpful. Learned a few things...didnt think batteries could be refurbed, for some reason. ...also, i was under the impression that having your battery charged to 100 all the time was good for it! I presume that applies to phones as well. Unlike my kids , i keep a phone till it doesnt work....
Great to hear 👍
had to watch it twice for the good info, I was enjoying the chemistry between these two guys too much!!
Great to hear. Thanks 🙏🏻
Great vid. Own a bolt from Jan 6th 2017. Only had 7% loss from 130k miles before warranty battery from the recall for fires. I believe the first 4-5 % was first year in 30k miles, so it slows way down. Also I have my car timed to be a full charge 1hr before I leave for work. It is never fully charged for long periods of time. If i didnt need the whole battery, or most of it , I would only charge to 80%. Those 2 items also help for a long battery life.
EVs are a scam battery energy density is between 200-500wh/kg, hydrogen and petrol energy density is 39000wh/kg and 13000wh/kg you cannot match these in 1000years
Very well explained totally agree with everything he’s said, I’ve just passed my level 3 in IMI EV maintenance just to add you can change the cells individually to take your battery back up to 100 percent
More cost effective than changing the whole batter, EVs are great it’s the infrastructure that needs to catch up
Thanks 🙏🏻
Cleveleys in Gloucestershire, have been carrying out battery refurbishments for years.......
They are not green nor is changing the infrastructure.
Probably should have read the Tesla warranty - the battery will be replaced if it falls below 70%. The company specifies its batteries will retain at least 70 percent of their original capacity (also known as 30 percent degradation) during the warranty period (typically 8 years). Moreover, it is more or less normal to suffer 5% degradation in the first year of normal use and thereafter it can vary due to a number of factors. By the way for a model Y the EPA rating is 212 miles which is only 340 km. In other words as long as the vehicle, which is rated by Tesla at 303 miles, can do 212 miles its covered. Now place that vehicle in a hot climate or a cold climate and you'll find the 212 miles drops further. I can tell you from personal experience of a model 3 in both a hot and cold country, by using aircon you can severely impact performance by as much as 30% e.g. in the case of the model Y (with degrade battery), you might be down to a range of 150 miles or 240km. In my case I can tell you in northern Sweden I could barely get 200 miles when new, let alone with a degraded battery (I moved it on in less than a year). Honesty is important in these discussions and your mate has a clear conflict of interest.
I live in central Wisconsin, USA and see the same wintertime issues here, namely severe range issues for basically 1/2 the year. Coupled with basically no towing capacity for contractors towing trailers. I'm not totally down on EV's for southern climes, puttin' around town, but no one ever talks about their real limitations. And we haven't even discussed lack of charging stations and not even inability of the grid to produce all this electricity, with fossil fuels or nuclear, let alone renewables. Wind and solar will not for the foreseeable future will not supply the grid, without severe long term pollution results. I always like to ask EV owners how they like their nuclear and coal powered cars. The look on their faces is priceless.
@@larryflor1696 Americans like to believe that the world doesnt exist outside their little bubble. Here in Australia most homes have solar. Since I bought my model 3, I have been essentially running it off solar. Same for most people I know. Even if you were running it off coal powered electricity, that is more resource efficient than the equivalent petrol/diesel that is shipped to the servo and then burnt in your car.
Lovely video. Thank you for this.
One question. It is said that the best way to make a battery last long is to homecharge it with a 7 kwt charger. How would charging with a 11 kwt or even a 22 kwt charger, that is quite more timeefficient, influence the battery over time compared to the 7 kwt?
Charging at 11 or 22kW is fine. However most homes can’t charge at that high rate, hence 7kW being the popular choice.
Very informative video, thank you. My first EV was a 10 year old Peugeot Ion and its battery was degraded to 70% of its original capacity. In town use you could get max 60 miles in summer and half that in winter, or less if you really caned the heater. Needless to say I always charged it to 100%! I now have a new e-Up with 32kWh battery. I still charge it to 100% because the winter range is only 110 miles and I find charging is a faff (wet dirty cable in the dark, ugh) and b) it's a lease car so it's someone else's problem when I'm done with it. In reality it will be the third or fourth owner at 8 to 10 years old who might find it's slightly more degraded than one that's been lovingly wrapped in cotton wool and kept between 20 and 80% all its life. But by the sound of this video we're talking a few percentage points not double digits degradation... so who cares.
Great video Ped very informative and it was so easy to understand for those of us of advanced years and thanks to Moggy
Our pleasure 👍
Great presentation and on-air chemistry! For next in the series can we ask: 1) When will charging speeds fill a deplenished EV vehicle in under 5 minutes? 2) Best methods to put out an EV battery fire.
Great suggestion!
Question one will become academic in a few weeks, with Nio launching their ES6 with a range of 578 miles from its 150kW solid state battery. Toyota claim their solid state battery, which should be available next year, offers a 745 mile range and a recharging time of ten minutes, so presumably Nio's battery will offer similar recharge times. Perhaps then the Luddites will stop bleating about charging times and range.
It's claimed that the solid state battery will last for 10,000 cycles, so the ES6 will be able to cover nearly six million miles before its battery needs replacing, making most of the discussion in this video redundant.
Exciting times
For most people the 5 min charge is not needed - as for most people charging will be done overnight on a home charger - you need to think it's like having a fuel station at home. I met a Mercedes EQC owner at a rapid charger recently and he had his car for over 1 year and it was his FIRST charge away from home.
2) Any class b fire extinguisher.
Brilliant, I bought a second hand Kia Soul. My wife and I fight over who is driving. We only get 135 store even in the summer but that is no problem. Just about everywhere we want to go is well within range. We love going up hills, because we know the battery will recharge going down the other side! We learned that lesson when we were up the top of welsh mountain at 11o'clock at night, when the forecast said we only had 15 miles in the battery, yet the satnav said we had 22 to go. We arrived at the hotel with still 8 miles. Big, big, heave of relief!
We charge using the granny and have no problems (although the garage said we would), timed for when our solar is good.
Well done, mate. It would be interesting to watch this video in 20 years time and see what has happened to the myths.
The team over at Electric Classic Cars are brilliant! Thank you for making the time and effort to produce this video.
Our pleasure!
Of course he will bestow the electric car with praise. Its in his best interest to do so.
You might as well ask a barman to give you the health benefits of beer
@@sahhull😂😂😂😂💯👏👏👏
@@sahhull He makes kits to convert classic cars to be shipped all over the world, if they didn't work as expected his business would not be thriving like it is! - I think he's said before if you want him to convert a classic now he has a 2 year waiting list to even get it in! - also he was and is a massive petrol head as well.
@@markreed9853 an EV working as expected...
So too short a range to be useful and too long to recharge.
Excellent video. With Moggy's experience and style of presentation and the rapport you have I could have enjoyed a longer video. The click bait brigade need to see this, but...
Well done. More like this, every couple of months ??
Glad you enjoyed it!
Absolutely brilliant video. Very well explained. Well done.
Glad you liked it!
Excellent explanation for novices. Since LFP batteries are gaining ground very fast, could you do a short video to explain best chargindg habits bewtween LFP and NMC chemistry in batteries?
Sure thing!
@@PetrolPed Please do clarify the difference between LFP and LNMC because, despite the impression given here, LFP batteries CAN be charged to 100% without problems, in fact, Tesla recommend that you do this from time to time.
Trouble is, that as of now, LFP batteries are only made in China (patent issue til recently, now gone), and not all Chinese made cars have LFP.
BYD - yes, Tesla - standard range - yes; long range - no.
Massively informative Pete. Thanks to you for coming up with the video and your mate for sharing his knowledge. 👍
My pleasure mate 👍
I have and know many people with electric cars. No-one moans about batteries (degradation) except perhaps charge speeds at rapid/ultra chargers (over 50kw/h), but that's because the software is looking after the battery. If they moan about anything it's usually the software on the infotainment or the need to override the lane-assist (NCAP related) which usually isn't fit for purpose for many British roads. That'd be the same for modern petrol cars.
Great video. Great and clear explanations . 👍
Glad it was helpful!
great vid. should be put in every car meet, forum and whatnot. Super precise, informative no bs there. Listen to people with experience not with opinion - GREAT line!!!!!
Happy for you to do that. Post away mate 😜👍👊
EVs are a scam battery energy density is between 200-500wh/kg, hydrogen and petrol energy density is 39000wh/kg and 13000wh/kg you cannot match these in 1000years
I do forklifts which use L-Ion batteries in some cases. We are planning to use the batteries for ten years across two five year leases with some customers. This is allowing for a daily discharge/recharge including use in cold stores ( -22 degrees C).
Interesting 👍
A very informational video Sir Pete! Thank you for doing this.
I do have a coworker who owns a Tesla and had to spend 16k to fix his Tesla plaid 😮 you can buy a good used car truck or suv for that
Right on!
That's the big point I often allude to, and is why I think these EVs are more likely to get scrapped sooner than their equivalent ICE car. As they get to the 10-15 year point people know that parts are going to start wearing and they will cost so much to repair that it just isn't worth it - therefore they're going to be scrapped. I also believe that less people are likely to buy them in the first place because of the risk of a big bill. You can buy any small 10-15 year old hatchback for a relatively low price and if things go wrong you're not likely to get a big repair bill, but that's not the case with EVs. We're already seeing that even basic repairs are costing thousands.
Thanks for this video. Just bought an Ionic 5 so this really helped me out.
Glad I could help!
Brilliant. Very informative. Bought a Tesla Model Y LR la year ago. Looks like it will out last me….
I had no idea these batteries are 100% recyclable, this is great to hear. Only driving 6K per year it would make sense for me to get a battery car but I'm still not feeling confident enough with the infrastructure but I am sure I will have to make the move in the coming years. Great video and love Moggy's passion.
About 96% recyclable but still one hell of a lot. What's more, the reclaimed minerals are of a high enough quality to be used again to make more batteries. 👍
Just goes to show that we all get our own personal stream of information. There has been loads of stuff out there (inc. here on YT) for a couple of years now explaining and even showing the process of recycling (often repurposing EV cells for electricity storage) or repairing and reusing. The media doesn't seem to want to make such a big deal of this - but then it probably isn't clickworthy enough.....
@@michaelatkinson7577not recycled to big
@michaelatkinson7577 Spot on, Michael. Batteries have a much longer useful life span than most people think. Personally, I believe many of these stories are deliberately started in an attempt to undermine the EV industry.
I recently learned that oil companies like Shell and ExxonMobil have allegedly spent $60 million on social media influencing since 2017. There was also a report by "eminent scientists and experts" that challenged climate science and argued that net zero targets should be toned down.
The report was a complete fabrication and commissioned by a US 'think tank' with affiliations to ExxonMobil and other polluting industries.
@@FullFact548 Indeed. And batteries not recycled can be used by the energy industry, usually in commercial, industrial or domestic applications. There is a large sports stadium in Utrecht in Holland, powered by 200 old Nissan Leaf batteries, charged via solar. There is also a large wind farm in South Wales, which uses many ex BMW i3 batteries for energy storage. There is virtually endless scope and potential for older EV batteries.......They may no longer be viable for car use, but still have plenty of life for alternative uses.
Welcome to Wales! That rain on the roof of the factory unit is epic.
As others here have said, it's great that you have adopted a balanced view of all types of car, and I appreciate the fact that you openly state the best car you've driven for your personal circumstances is your present 3 litre diesel Land Rover defender 90. I wish I could afford one (but not in the tomb raider spec like yours) because the 90 looks like an awesome car that would suit me perfectly.
Full kudos to Moggy also. I love his channel and am a subscriber.
Yeah. That rain ruined my filming plans 😂
If you live in Wales with its closed off streets and 20mph limits, thanks to that twat Drakeford, all you need is a bike.
Love the 'Lithium Battery Fire Blanket' in the background! Only kidding, interesting content, cheers.
Very interesting and informative. Good to hear it from an experienced mechanic
Thanks 👍
Great video, Pedro. You and Moggy have a great rapport. 😊
One thing Moggy forgot to mention, though, is the difference between gross battery capacity and useable battery capacity. Most EVs have batteries with built-in top and bottom buffers to protect the battery from ever being 100% full or 100% empty. Another reason degradation is now so low. For example, the Tesla Model 3 long-range has a gross capacity of 82kWh, but the useable capacity is 75kWh.
They did mention it, compared it to gas tanks that still have miles to go when they hit empty. Don't think any have top buffers, but they all have bottom reserve capacity of various sizes. Some Teslas have limits put on capacity, so a 70kWh battery that you can only use 60kWhs of may be considered a top buffer, but it's just a way to sell a cheaper car that the owner may some day decide to unlock for additional monies.
Where the fuck were you during the part of the video where he talked about that ! not to bright huh?
Thanks for this. Keeping it real is the way forward.
I have a 23 year old Jaguar with 50k miles on which for some has the wrong shape key but no rust.
Equivalent EVs still have the wrong shape price tag for my use but £40k was right for someone in 1999.
I paid £3k for it 5 years ago and haven't worried about the shape of the key.
Learning how to minimise degradation is best practice.
Low maintenance could get lost in translation as no maintenance.
If people hog the battery packs to run houses on the cheap, where are the realistically affordable battery packs for cars supposed to come from?
@@israndy"Don't think any have top buffers," No, some have a reverse top buffer, if you fill them to the brim and a bit more you suffocate the emission vapor canister, produce a hydrolock and the car is dead.
Good point!
Interesting video, good to hear actual facts about batteries and the motors, I’m still doubtful EV alone is the only mobility solution for more reasons than longevity of the components. Happy motoring 🎉
Thank you!
I agree with your comment James. Up until now I have been dead against EVs mainly because we’re being forced into it, but there are other issues as you say. Not least the cost. But this has given me pause for thought.
Genuinely excellent video and very informative. Also, it was pitched just right for the non-scientific folk, like me. This has genuinely changed my mind
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for this, I’m looking at either a hybrid or plug-in hybrid for the first time after decades of driving a petrol car.
Am I correct in assuming the same principles apply regarding charging a plug-in hybrid as an EV?
Have you considered the extra maintenance involved in a hybrid? There is still an internal compustion engine in the car -- which means oil and filter changes, cooling system, etc.
The motor battery care should be the same in a hybrid as a pure BEV.
@@rsilk2969 Of course! But an electric car isn’t an option for me, where I live there isn’t the charging infrastructure yet.
@@ffotograffydd I always advise potential EV owners *not* to buy a BEV unless they can charge at home.
@@rsilk2969 I can plug it in at home, but travel long distances and don’t want to risk getting stranded in the middle of nowhere, hence why I decided against an EV. However, I’ve also discounted the plug-in hybrid at this stage, I’ll be buying a standard ‘self-charging’ hybrid.
My wifes Smart ForFour EQ will be 4 years old in September, it has currently done 22k. As we have recently purchased it I had a battery condition report done by Mercedes for peace of mind. The print out showed it still has 96% of its original battery capacity and all individual cells were in top condition. I would recommend that any purchaser of a used EV car insists on a battery condition report at time of purchase.
4 months ago 5 year old Merc EV. Dealer priced 8t at 5k for trade in but didn't want it as it would need a new battery pack according to their workshop check.
13k for a new pack making a used 5 year old Merc at 11k cost 18k . Fact!
Try selling it. No one wants them. They are horrendously not eco friendly.
@@scaryfakevirus 100 miles a week it’ll be 30 to 40 years old before it pays its carbon debt.
Nice 👌
10 Years + $20,000 = 2000LBS. of e-waste 🤡per car
I like to explain EV reliability by comparing it to vacuum cleaner or refrigerator reliability. Even my lawn mower is electric, starts every time without fail, and never serviced.
Batteries and battery management were a let down, but most makes of vehicles have brought up the reliability tremendously.
If car makers would make a battery pattern size like an AA or AAA battery that you could easily swap when its worn out by a new one and recycle the old, they could improve on the tech and make the battery even better when time comes to change. that would make ev a lot more appealing@
Fridge with a battery?
Had a Ryobi electric lawn mower and it died after 5 lawns. 😂
Brilliant. Thanks. Pick my Tesla performance up tomorrow. ❤
First time in a long time I have watched a video on CZcams and totally informative as an electrician the content was brilliant and cooling the batteries is key. I have a hybrid and my battery is checked and it passes every year
Wow, thanks!