Given your pricing, this is how I imagine the checklist for a £100 (inc. V.A.T.) EICR would look like: [ ] Radio works when plugged into socket [ ] Wires are connected inside the distribution board [ ] House is not currently on fire due to a short circuit (pass if on fire due to non-electrical causes)
I'd say the rcd is C3. Yeah you could argue there's a safety concern, but it's not an electrical issue. Old Fanny falling down the stairs cause the lights went off sucks, but she wasn't electrocuted.
Pricing (Nuremberg, Germany): I only do such inspections on an hourly basis. So i would estimate around 6 Hours for that kind of building, 85€/hour + 27.50€ (Tester) + 22€ (Car - if within the town) So: 510,00€(Labour) + 27,50 (Equipment) + 22,00€ (Car) =559,50€ + 16% VAT (89,52€) = 659,02€ I know, there are guys that do it for less than 200€, but if you pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys...
Perhaps yours is a more suitable way of pricing....Unfortunately, being competitive (Commercially Viable) is a whole other argument! Actually, I like your model!!
I think people think the expensive contractors are ripping them off. It’s hard to find a balance between paying the least you can but still getting a good job done.
A minimum of £200+VAT for an EICR in London I think is a bit cheap. To be honest I'd expect someone like you to have much better prices. Maybe that's why you end up working 12 hours, 6 days/week. I charge a minimum of £215+VAT at North Kent, losing more that I win but I didn't start my own business to work around the clock for stupid prices.
Hi Tom, love watching your videos especially this one, my pricing is pretty much the same as yours mate, I charge £18.50 per circuit and £60.00 for the report. I was debating with myself as to whether I should lower my rates due to all other companies coming in at £100 or less but I’m glad you have spoken about this and I have decided fuck it! if anything my rates should be going up. Any how keep up the good work mate and you never know our paths may cross as you work in the same areas as me. 👍
Good to see your charging sensible rates for a comprehensive test and inspect.. those companies out there charging £85 - £100 plus the vat for testing upto 10 circuits are seriously undermining the Quality Sparkies out there.. I recently re tested a 2 bed flat which had an EICR done. Satisfactory report issued . I found 3 C1s without even trying and 5 C2s. The worst being 2 junction boxes in the loft space with no lids on. A 32 amp cooker circuit still in use but spliced into with a connector block to also run a 7.5 KW shower no RCD insight. After giving the landlord the bad news. He said that the so called test engineer was only there for 45 mins and didn’t even look in the loft space. Luckily he hadn’t paid the bill for that test.
No it's not. It shuts off the lights in the staircase, that's an issue when there's a fire. You have either battery backup on the lights per floor or you have to isolate the lights from the rest of the fuseboard.
I would agree with Paul, I don't think that the argument about it shutting off the lights is enough because from my experience the power goes out more than an rcd trips and even if it trips then it's only possible that there will be no light (I'm assuming that there are windows in the house). Also on top of that the likelihood of someone tripping down the stairs in their own home even when it's dark is low. Now because we are talking about things with really low chance of happening are we going to consider other rare occurrences like the rcd failing closed. About the fire comment Ruben, I'm not sure what its like where you are but here the fire brigade shuts the power off from the street and what's to say that the fire won't damage the lighting circuits first? I think because of how unlikely it is that the rcd will trip this situation will generally be a C3, however one should take into consideration other factors like the age/health of the residents and the condition of the rest of the house and if there is an elevated risk of the rcd tripping and causing injuries in that specific building then classify it as a C2.
You could argue about lights on stairs as a danger for thousands of older properties. But even with split RCD board, the light on the stairs could go off (blown lamp, circuit fault, nuisance trip, another circuit on same RCD is faulty). Even an RCBO could trip and leave you in the dark. The safety clause is about electrical wiring, not any possible imaginable scenario. A tenant could take off a faceplate and stick their hand in, but we're not going to code every faceplate as a C2.
With regard to your pricing it only seems expensive due to the individuals willing to do an EICR for £100 then proceeding to do 6 in a day. Im a Glasgow company and for a new domestic property we have not tested before its £30 per circuit, for that you are getting an incredibly in depth inspection. Inspections thereafter we reduce to £25 per circuit as we know the installation has been brought up to standard and testing is much more efficient. Alot of the reasoning behind people thinking £300+ expensive is that they do not understand what a proper EICR is, that also goes for the Electricians carrying them out. Its almost a box ticking exercise and it is something which needs to be addressed. The sheer amount of EICRs i have carried out, signed off by someone else not even 1 year prior and they fail after opening the first socket or light fitting. Keep up the good work and keep driving home the importance of a good electrician. Its great to see, I have many of the same traits as you with regard to doing things the absolute correct way every time and no hash bash shit 👌
Hello Tom! Pulse boys here! North London based. Our Charges: £70per board. £25per circuit. +Parking +Vat Possibly do a small discount if board has more than 10 circuits.
Just started doing EICR's, It takes a longer than people would think. It's hard coding something as C2 or C1 because the landlord always argues it, then the estate agents get a bit annoyed. They never accept that they have get a new consumer unit. Also the estate agents bring us down to a ridiculously low price.
C3 upfront rcd, C2 downlighters connections as they are not accessible, installed within the ceiling, C3 for non fire rated downlighters. Unless it was actually a fire rated ceiling. Napit code breakers does have errors, ie, cables in wall without rcd protection C2 is an error. I looked at an recent EICR on saturday completed by another electrician with his quotation for remedial’s. (The client wanted alternative quotes). The remedial’s were in excess of £1k, after reading the report & visiting the property, no remedial’s were required, the client is not happy. You can yourself into deep water if your not sure what your doing or just giving your personal thoughts on an EICR. The majority of the time you have to use your common sense & engineering judgement. We would all love to replace that old 3036 board. We can all make recommendations, but they are purely that recommendations. Pricing, if you want to do an EICR for silly low price & not inspect & test the property properly if something happens it will come back to bite the spark who signed that report. You cannot sample everything, but samples should be completed, if there are loose connections (C2), sort them out later.👍🏼
Spot on mate, I’m in agreement with everything you have said, regarding the downlights and regarding other sparks remedial work lists. I’ve had one recently C2 for 6mm main bonding, C2 for plastic DB, C2 for no RCD (even though it’s a first floor flat) the list goes on. We should all know these aren’t C2s but some sparks are either ignorant or simply trying to rip people off.
Never a C2 just because of stairs, I thought we code things for electrical safety I.E potential of causing death or harm through electric shock? C2 potentially dangerous under fault conditions.
Old firm i worked for would always c2 any non metal fuseboard under a stair case, even if it was dual rcd and they both worked fine. They said needs to be fire rated for staircase due to it being a fire escape, sometimes I was changing fuseboards that were less than a year old
On the lighting question, how does a BC or ES lamp holder ever pass this kind of inspection? No tools required to expose live conductors… Lamp easily removable by the user…
The codebreakers book is wrong on a few things Example, Front end RCD is fine, regardless of safety ... if 'potential to cause danger' is a C2, every house in the UK would get a C2. Lampholders can give one a belt... We tend to do lots of C3's and only C2 or C1 things that are likely to be causing problems ELECTRICALLY. Someone falling down the stairs isn't an electrical issue and has no place in an EICR Linked main switch is a C3 fo sho. Not sure the downlight would be a C1 for me... I'd call it a C2. I'd say inner core is 'the copper' not the insulation. And the coding of non fire rated downlights with a room above is one example of where the book is heinously WRONG. Not required unless it's a separate fire compartment, so no code at all. And all my disagreements above notwithstanding, we've been called to look at EICR 'unsatisfactory' results by landlords... and have ALWAYS agreed with the original inspector. We've downgraded a couple of C1's to C2's, but that's still the same ultimate result
£30 per circuit, no extra for Db. C2 for downlight becomes dangerous when someone pulls it out the ceiling, C3 for dB not fire rated in domestic premises and a rental. Personally I would recommend dB with split or rcbo type.
If there’s ever a danger from lights failing (customer responsible for risk assessment), then surely the remedy is an emergency-type fitting. The cause of the power failure - RCD, MCB, power cut etc. - is besides the point.
1st one of your videos I've seen, brilliant - informative & damm funny, pricing very interesting, too many people wanting us to do an EICR for under £100, all they want is the paperwork with our name on it
That cupboard lights I came across something similar. On a periodic inspection i put it down as a c2 but strongly advised it to be changed which they agreed too. I charge my hourly rate and it takes as long as it takes for the testing 🤷♂️ As for the client that you dont want to go back always trust your gut i completely agree
Hi Tom, Great video, couldn't agree more with going by gut feeling, it comes with experience. I like that you sort of promoted the NAPIT code breaker book, it's about time that a decent guide was produced, it will help create some uniformity in EICR observations. I use mine to back up my observations to the client, they can't argue if its printed in black and white.
Doing my 2391-52 next month, thanks for the heads up with the codebreakers book. I will not be signing any installations for £100. Having a laugh, what's the point! I agree with your way of pricing or it's just not worth doing 👍. Great video Nagy
Like you pricing Tom. Unfortunately I don't have clients like yourself my clients cry and whinge for £150 saying I'm too expensive. And I do them according to guidance note 3 no short cuts. Wish you best of luck if your getting that sort of money.
Hey Tom, just stumbled across you (big Clive recommendation), love your thoughts on EICR pricing, I shall be adopting it too (Hampshire based so might have to shave 10% off). I"ve re-watched from 18.01about 20 times........ and for that alone I'm subscribing. Keep it up!
I have looked through the code breakers it's good for a reference, but some of there coding is definitely different to what the niceic say. Code breakers classes cable less than 50mm without rcd as a c2 meaning most installations Would fail Niceic recommends same fault as a c3
Hey Tom, great to see how you approach an EICR. Just a point on the 'Linked Main Switch', are we not talking about switching of both L and N and not a 'Single Point' of Isolation? Totally different issue! Loving your honesty online. Hope you don't take offence to my comment . PEACE Bro ✌.
Yeah clarify please. I assume the old Wylex had double pole main switch but the board below only had a RCD to cover the 2 circuits,so no main switch to isolate both live conductors.
6:48 C3, 7:20 C3, 8:00 C3, 9:20 I would C2 but its not readily accessible you needed a ladder and you had to remove the lamp, 12:14 C3 with FI as it's not good with the C1/2 any way,
F**k of a thing to happen when you are not expecting it. Hope you are ok!! On the EICR... We have them in Ireland too but we have a set list of questions to answer. You also have space for test readings etc. I'll send a copy of one to you if you are interested in taking a look to compare!
The first video that I liked in your entire videos because in this vide you actually tackled on showing stuff and doing stuff and elaborate things instead of talking off the topic . As usual you do lol , if you continue like this video you find another fan 👍
I’m afraid I did 😂 when door fell after calling the bloke a proper lemon. Fire rating of down lighters, there are a number of factors I’d consider but if it’s within the confines of a purpose flat it’s self then possible no need, if it’s a pre 85 conversion then possible yes. Down light wiring, I’d suggest c1 no tools needed to change the light bulb and potentially exposed to bare wire.
Obviously a single RCD is not ideal, but if you counted the potential for lights to lose power as a C2, then wouldn’t you have to class every installation without emergency lights as a C2? Incase of a power failure, or a fault on the lighting circuit itself.
In domestic propertys I don't think it is requied to have a local switch for a fan, possibly a shower as well as the circuit breaker provides that function.
The Lights being permently on: Tom I would give that a C1 because when the lights blow you would have someone changing a light bulb while the fittings are live.
We have set charges based on the size of the property. 1 Bed up to 5. Anything over that is done on a price per circuit. Sticking point there is we could get a 1 bed with 10+ circuits but then get a 3 bed with 3/4 circuits. Swings and roundabouts I suppose but I do like the way you price yours. Something to think about 👍
the start and clunk on head.. yep, we've all done it and we all still do, I still bounce head off things on the regular, breaking glasses/spectacles often.
Up here in lancashire, I charge between £80-£120 for an EICR in a domestic property (up to a 12 way board). I know of people who charge £50 per EICR and they are just not worth the paper.
@persona250 So many electricians don’t understand that a fire rated down light is maintain the fire rating integrity of a fire rated ceiling ... even if the ceiling is made of marshmallows they recommend them 😂🤣
Flipping heck, I felt that. I had the exact same thing happen to me during an eicr! Only the door was twice as thick. You suffer concussion as a result. Blooming painful.
Tom great video as usual, But why did you think it was safe to stick your pinky through the hole in the base of that upstream RCD when the main fuse was still in and no proof of safe isolation the upstairs dressing room with the lights on was it not switched on the door casing with a microswitch???
Dangerous notification pull the main fuse for front end rcd. Reason granny falls down the stairs to reset rcd then grandad get head injury when closing cupboard door
Did you try shutting the door to turn the lights off in that cupboard? I only ask as I once had a house where a cupboards lights would come on when the door opened.
Could that RCD not be considered a Main Switch as per the option in an EIC? And as long as it meets the disconnection time it should be fine shouldn't it?
Good video, but bathroom fans with windows in don’t need isolators, so that shouldn’t be coded. I still think non fire rated down-lights is code 3 myself as it requires improvement, although a few seem to disagree on here! It doesn’t constitute failing it, but it could be dangerous. Anyway, it’s all down to the individual inspector, if you’re a competent electrician, it’s your choice how you code it! They don’t have to follow your advice and they can second opinions.
I'm pretty sure that the reference in the Code breakers book is "series connected rcds" i.e. two rcds connected in series rather than a single front end rcd.
It's funny, this is literally unheard of in Australia. We have to do testing and tagging on electrical products in a commercial scene for the domestic side of things there's no regulations.
Very interesting to get your approach to doing EICR. There is a balance to be reached on how items are inspected but in all cases it is to do with electrical safety only. Ie all your C2 vs C3 examples can only be C3. Falling downstairs etc is not relevant. Safety wise nothing wrong with a board of breakers and external RCD in it’s day and it is still not electrically unsafe today. But then what do I know? I completed my 5 year apprenticeship with the electricity board 60 years ago!! I think your pricing is about right ….4 hrs to do it properly
NAPIT have it correct. A single RCD feeding an entire distribution board is not ideal, but is not in itself a C2. You need some other factor, like that fact that the property has a stairway, to make it into a C2. Consider a small child (who may not have experienced a power cut before) coming out of their bedroom in the dark and walking to where the know the top of the stairs to be. They could very easily fall down the stairs it is dark and their perception of where the stairs are is a bit off. In a bungalow or groundfloor flat, if other factors are not present, it would be a C3. Other factors that might be relevant would include if there was a medical device that is sustaining someone's life. Such devices should have a UPS as well as being on their own circuit and RCBO.
Christopher Hulse exactly. When doing an eicr you aren’t doing a FRA or a building inspection. You are assessing the condition of the electrical installation only.
Interesting. I would not of coded the lights needing to be fire rated as the house is classes as on containment (ie not flat above) if you used the lights as a c1 you would need to isolate that circuit. I would of coded access to live parts as a c2 as it only becomes dangerous when light is removed so potentially dangerous. Just my thoughts on it. Well presented video though.
If its a house they are fire rated to protect the joist/floor structure above. Plasterboard has a resistance to fire which the downlights should match. Nothing to do with fire compartments.
Have had some Eicr booked and then the night before they ring up and say they can get it done alot cheaper and these drive by tester make it looks like we are over charging. Went to one after it had been tested ,10 mcbs and 2 rcds , when I asked the tenants how long they were here testing ,they said ,30 mins and the Eicr looked good but had lots of mistakes and wrong boxes ticked
Not surprising when a lot of landlords just want a certificate so they don't get fined. They don't really care what the EICR is actually for (ie safety).
C1 for that door
Given your pricing, this is how I imagine the checklist for a £100 (inc. V.A.T.) EICR would look like:
[ ] Radio works when plugged into socket
[ ] Wires are connected inside the distribution board
[ ] House is not currently on fire due to a short circuit (pass if on fire due to non-electrical causes)
You'd even get out of the Car/Van?
[ ] Property is located where address states.
[ ] Property is a building.
[ ] Property is not currently on fire.
Brilliant!
No
5:31 "If Mrs Jones falls down the stairs and snaps her neck, thats a C2" Strangely enough C2 is one of the Vertebrae in the neck! poor old Mrs Jones.
I'll give you a thumbs up for that.
Laughed out loud to that mate. 😂
I'd say the rcd is C3. Yeah you could argue there's a safety concern, but it's not an electrical issue. Old Fanny falling down the stairs cause the lights went off sucks, but she wasn't electrocuted.
I find it fascinating the electrical difference between country have a great day and be safe 😊🇨🇦
Its "potential difference"
Pricing (Nuremberg, Germany):
I only do such inspections on an hourly basis. So i would estimate around 6 Hours for that kind of building, 85€/hour + 27.50€ (Tester) + 22€ (Car - if within the town)
So:
510,00€(Labour)
+ 27,50 (Equipment)
+ 22,00€ (Car)
=559,50€
+ 16% VAT (89,52€)
= 659,02€
I know, there are guys that do it for less than 200€, but if you pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys...
Perhaps yours is a more suitable way of pricing....Unfortunately, being competitive (Commercially Viable) is a whole other argument!
Actually, I like your model!!
Sounds pretty reasonable if you ask me, greetings from NRW :)
Ok i move to Germany ..if i ask that rate in Belgium .. i don't have any custumers anymore .. the rate you ask is for a mid level IT guy in Belgium ..
I think people think the expensive contractors are ripping them off. It’s hard to find a balance between paying the least you can but still getting a good job done.
Yah right so you basically charge 1000 uros a day fair play mate. Bullshit right there
I liked the door drop being left in. So many of these professional videos edit out all the real life stuff.
A minimum of £200+VAT for an EICR in London I think is a bit cheap. To be honest I'd expect someone like you to have much better prices. Maybe that's why you end up working 12 hours, 6 days/week.
I charge a minimum of £215+VAT at North Kent, losing more that I win but I didn't start my own business to work around the clock for stupid prices.
I agree. I'm in Hertfordshire & may quote up to £300+ for some installation!! Depends on age, complexity, access, upgrades, etc...
Little switch on the door frame that turns the lights on whenever the door is opened?
Tom: how I do EICR testing
Door: Lol, hello
Love this video . As an apprentice I found this really useful. Hope your head is ok after that nasty bump.
Hi Tom, love watching your videos especially this one, my pricing is pretty much the same as yours mate, I charge £18.50 per circuit and £60.00 for the report. I was debating with myself as to whether I should lower my rates due to all other companies coming in at £100 or less but I’m glad you have spoken about this and I have decided fuck it! if anything my rates should be going up. Any how keep up the good work mate and you never know our paths may cross as you work in the same areas as me. 👍
I wonder if those closet lights turn off when you shut the door.
Good to see your charging sensible rates for a comprehensive test and inspect.. those companies out there charging £85 - £100 plus the vat for testing upto 10 circuits are seriously undermining the Quality Sparkies out there.. I recently re tested a 2 bed flat which had an EICR done. Satisfactory report issued . I found 3 C1s without even trying and 5 C2s. The worst being 2 junction boxes in the loft space with no lids on. A 32 amp cooker circuit still in use but spliced into with a connector block to also run a 7.5 KW shower no RCD insight. After giving the landlord the bad news. He said that the so called test engineer was only there for 45 mins and didn’t even look in the loft space. Luckily he hadn’t paid the bill for that test.
My stomachs in agony and I’m fucking crying with laughter at that end bit. The whole timing of that clusterfuck is amazing 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Who's saying I watched the door fall several times in slow mo and laughed like a crazy person? Because I definitely didn't!
Tom: "Good Afternoon..."
Door: *_"let me introduce myself"_*
If front end RCD trips with correct times then C3 and if not then a C2.
No it's not. It shuts off the lights in the staircase, that's an issue when there's a fire. You have either battery backup on the lights per floor or you have to isolate the lights from the rest of the fuseboard.
I would agree with Paul, I don't think that the argument about it shutting off the lights is enough because from my experience the power goes out more than an rcd trips and even if it trips then it's only possible that there will be no light (I'm assuming that there are windows in the house). Also on top of that the likelihood of someone tripping down the stairs in their own home even when it's dark is low. Now because we are talking about things with really low chance of happening are we going to consider other rare occurrences like the rcd failing closed.
About the fire comment Ruben, I'm not sure what its like where you are but here the fire brigade shuts the power off from the street and what's to say that the fire won't damage the lighting circuits first?
I think because of how unlikely it is that the rcd will trip this situation will generally be a C3, however one should take into consideration other factors like the age/health of the residents and the condition of the rest of the house and if there is an elevated risk of the rcd tripping and causing injuries in that specific building then classify it as a C2.
You could argue about lights on stairs as a danger for thousands of older properties. But even with split RCD board, the light on the stairs could go off (blown lamp, circuit fault, nuisance trip, another circuit on same RCD is faulty). Even an RCBO could trip and leave you in the dark. The safety clause is about electrical wiring, not any possible imaginable scenario. A tenant could take off a faceplate and stick their hand in, but we're not going to code every faceplate as a C2.
@@tobysherring1369 Exactly!
@@RubenKelevra how many domestic properties have battery backups in lights, beyond communal?
With regard to your pricing it only seems expensive due to the individuals willing to do an EICR for £100 then proceeding to do 6 in a day. Im a Glasgow company and for a new domestic property we have not tested before its £30 per circuit, for that you are getting an incredibly in depth inspection. Inspections thereafter we reduce to £25 per circuit as we know the installation has been brought up to standard and testing is much more efficient.
Alot of the reasoning behind people thinking £300+ expensive is that they do not understand what a proper EICR is, that also goes for the Electricians carrying them out.
Its almost a box ticking exercise and it is something which needs to be addressed. The sheer amount of EICRs i have carried out, signed off by someone else not even 1 year prior and they fail after opening the first socket or light fitting.
Keep up the good work and keep driving home the importance of a good electrician. Its great to see, I have many of the same traits as you with regard to doing things the absolute correct way every time and no hash bash shit 👌
8 hours ealier... That hatch knocked the r out of the word too 🤣🤣❤️
First thing i spotted haha
Hello Tom! Pulse boys here! North London based.
Our Charges:
£70per board.
£25per circuit.
+Parking
+Vat
Possibly do a small discount if board has more than 10 circuits.
What percentage do you check of the install.
Hopefully you take a meter unlike Naggy !
Just started doing EICR's, It takes a longer than people would think. It's hard coding something as C2 or C1 because the landlord always argues it, then the estate agents get a bit annoyed. They never accept that they have get a new consumer unit. Also the estate agents bring us down to a ridiculously low price.
For a regular domestic property I charge £300, I win about half of them but it will take me a full day to test a property fully
Completely agree i always book a half day minimum or full day
C3 upfront rcd, C2 downlighters connections as they are not accessible, installed within the ceiling, C3 for non fire rated downlighters. Unless it was actually a fire rated ceiling. Napit code breakers does have errors, ie, cables in wall without rcd protection C2 is an error. I looked at an recent EICR on saturday completed by another electrician with his quotation for remedial’s. (The client wanted alternative quotes). The remedial’s were in excess of £1k, after reading the report & visiting the property, no remedial’s were required, the client is not happy. You can yourself into deep water if your not sure what your doing or just giving your personal thoughts on an EICR. The majority of the time you have to use your common sense & engineering judgement. We would all love to replace that old 3036 board. We can all make recommendations, but they are purely that recommendations. Pricing, if you want to do an EICR for silly low price & not inspect & test the property properly if something happens it will come back to bite the spark who signed that report. You cannot sample everything, but samples should be completed, if there are loose connections (C2), sort them out later.👍🏼
Spot on mate, I’m in agreement with everything you have said, regarding the downlights and regarding other sparks remedial work lists. I’ve had one recently C2 for 6mm main bonding, C2 for plastic DB, C2 for no RCD (even though it’s a first floor flat) the list goes on. We should all know these aren’t C2s but some sparks are either ignorant or simply trying to rip people off.
Don’t the downlights become accessible when you have to change a bulb??
Fan isolators not required if a window installed. That’s in electricians house to building regulations. However manufacturer probably states isolator.
Never a C2 just because of stairs, I thought we code things for electrical safety I.E potential of causing death or harm through electric shock? C2 potentially dangerous under fault conditions.
Old firm i worked for would always c2 any non metal fuseboard under a stair case, even if it was dual rcd and they both worked fine. They said needs to be fire rated for staircase due to it being a fire escape, sometimes I was changing fuseboards that were less than a year old
If you used a C2 because of only one RCD on a multilevel property you'd have to C2 on a split board in a property with only one lighting circuit.
Open your mind and eyes 😳
@@nathansheargold5413 genuine question, did they not have fire retardant plastics then?
@@nathansheargold5413 That's why I'm self employed... crap like that makes me mad. I WILL argue the toss with a boss that he or she is WRONG
On the lighting question, how does a BC or ES lamp holder ever pass this kind of inspection? No tools required to expose live conductors… Lamp easily removable by the user…
The codebreakers book is wrong on a few things
Example, Front end RCD is fine, regardless of safety ... if 'potential to cause danger' is a C2, every house in the UK would get a C2. Lampholders can give one a belt...
We tend to do lots of C3's and only C2 or C1 things that are likely to be causing problems ELECTRICALLY. Someone falling down the stairs isn't an electrical issue and has no place in an EICR
Linked main switch is a C3 fo sho.
Not sure the downlight would be a C1 for me... I'd call it a C2. I'd say inner core is 'the copper'
not the insulation.
And the coding of non fire rated downlights with a room above is one example of where the book is heinously WRONG. Not required unless it's a separate fire compartment, so no code at all.
And all my disagreements above notwithstanding, we've been called to look at EICR 'unsatisfactory' results by landlords... and have ALWAYS agreed with the original inspector. We've downgraded a couple of C1's to C2's, but that's still the same ultimate result
Is it still worth buying tho?
£30 per circuit, no extra for Db. C2 for downlight becomes dangerous when someone pulls it out the ceiling, C3 for dB not fire rated in domestic premises and a rental. Personally I would recommend dB with split or rcbo type.
If there’s ever a danger from lights failing (customer responsible for risk assessment), then surely the remedy is an emergency-type fitting. The cause of the power failure - RCD, MCB, power cut etc. - is besides the point.
TT earthing systems have RCD protection for all circuits !!!
1st one of your videos I've seen, brilliant - informative & damm funny, pricing very interesting, too many people wanting us to do an EICR for under £100, all they want is the paperwork with our name on it
That cupboard lights I came across something similar. On a periodic inspection i put it down as a c2 but strongly advised it to be changed which they agreed too.
I charge my hourly rate and it takes as long as it takes for the testing 🤷♂️
As for the client that you dont want to go back always trust your gut i completely agree
I have never in the history of having a CZcams channel liked a video with in the first two seconds, you poor bastard haha! All the best bud!
Hi Tom,
Great video, couldn't agree more with going by gut feeling, it comes with experience.
I like that you sort of promoted the NAPIT code breaker book, it's about time that a decent guide was produced, it will help create some uniformity in EICR observations.
I use mine to back up my observations to the client, they can't argue if its printed in black and white.
Not only informative but comedy aswell!! Liking the channel 👌
I love how any object can be turned into a cutting insult by putting proper before it.
Lack of discrimination on RCD protection as shown is C3. By risk of danger, they are referring to risk of shock.
Just redone my 18th edition We must not use discrimination anymore we now have to use selectivity to be politically correct.
Absolutely brilliant, you should be on stage thought you were so funny and the lid falling on you head I laughed so much. John
Cor, and I thought I had a bad day trying to find a fault on a ring, least I didn't have a door fall on me!
Hope you are okay after that
Doing my 2391-52 next month, thanks for the heads up with the codebreakers book. I will not be signing any installations for £100. Having a laugh, what's the point! I agree with your way of pricing or it's just not worth doing 👍. Great video Nagy
Like you pricing Tom. Unfortunately I don't have clients like yourself my clients cry and whinge for £150 saying I'm too expensive. And I do them according to guidance note 3 no short cuts. Wish you best of luck if your getting that sort of money.
And the lemon was holding the string attached to the wood which he pulled on and OUCH!!
I believe the first defect you looked up is relating to rcd’s in series not a single rcd supplying a full installation. 👍
There not in series
He meant downstream.
Connor Stanley I was referring to what he was relating it to in the code breakers book 👍
Hey Tom, just stumbled across you (big Clive recommendation), love your thoughts on EICR pricing, I shall be adopting it too (Hampshire based so might have to shave 10% off). I"ve re-watched from 18.01about 20 times........ and for that alone I'm subscribing. Keep it up!
The bump on the head 😂😂😂 I missed that the first time I watched and you cursing £100 EICR 😂😂😂
I got code breakers, good read. Its not a Bible just a reference.
I agree. Good book to have.
its someones opinion .
I have looked through the code breakers it's good for a reference, but some of there coding is definitely different to what the niceic say. Code breakers classes cable less than 50mm without rcd as a c2 meaning most installations
Would fail
Niceic recommends same fault as a c3
I agree cables in walls should definitely be a C3 if no RCD. Napit should revise their coding of C2.
Any other book similar to the code breakers that you recommend?
You can use circuit finder or tracer kit or simply a toner to find a buried switch if there is any for those lights that are on all the time.
Hey Tom, great to see how you approach an EICR.
Just a point on the 'Linked Main Switch', are we not talking about switching of both L and N and not a 'Single Point' of Isolation? Totally different issue!
Loving your honesty online. Hope you don't take offence to my comment .
PEACE Bro ✌.
Yeah clarify please.
I assume the old Wylex had double pole main switch but the board below only had a RCD to cover the 2 circuits,so no main switch to isolate both live conductors.
Roger Bean the rcd in the bottom board would most certainly also be double pole.
6:48 C3, 7:20 C3, 8:00 C3, 9:20 I would C2 but its not readily accessible you needed a ladder and you had to remove the lamp, 12:14 C3 with FI as it's not good with the C1/2 any way,
There is no C3 with FI, it's one of the other
F**k of a thing to happen when you are not expecting it. Hope you are ok!!
On the EICR... We have them in Ireland too but we have a set list of questions to answer. You also have space for test readings etc. I'll send a copy of one to you if you are interested in taking a look to compare!
Take a shot every time Tom says “you could argue”
Well I’m plastered 🥴
watch 3+ videos in a row, now what? ;)
If in doubt go with the highest safety concern so I would have put that fuse board as a C2
Your pricing is very accurate
The first video that I liked in your entire videos because in this vide you actually tackled on showing stuff and doing stuff and elaborate things instead of talking off the topic . As usual you do lol , if you continue like this video you find another fan 👍
I’m afraid I did 😂 when door fell after calling the bloke a proper lemon. Fire rating of down lighters, there are a number of factors I’d consider but if it’s within the confines of a purpose flat it’s self then possible no need, if it’s a pre 85 conversion then possible yes. Down light wiring, I’d suggest c1 no tools needed to change the light bulb and potentially exposed to bare wire.
Obviously a single RCD is not ideal, but if you counted the potential for lights to lose power as a C2, then wouldn’t you have to class every installation without emergency lights as a C2? Incase of a power failure, or a fault on the lighting circuit itself.
Eicrs are a absolute bummer. Keep up the good work tom 👍👍👍❤️❤️
In domestic propertys I don't think it is requied to have a local switch for a fan, possibly a shower as well as the circuit breaker provides that function.
C2 for the spots, not immediate danger as you would have to pull the fitting down to get access for live parts
Great video - hope your head's okay!
The Lights being permently on: Tom I would give that a C1 because when the lights blow you would have someone changing a light bulb while the fittings are live.
Your sticking a new bulb in there not your fingers.
But that could apply to any lampholder with 2-way switching...
Exactly same tool set for me including the Larry apart from i use long nose not snips for removing cables out of tight boards for testing.
We have set charges based on the size of the property. 1 Bed up to 5. Anything over that is done on a price per circuit. Sticking point there is we could get a 1 bed with 10+ circuits but then get a 3 bed with 3/4 circuits. Swings and roundabouts I suppose but I do like the way you price yours. Something to think about 👍
Don't have to have a fan isolator... There's no isolation point at every light fitting so it's not needed for a fan.
Yes it does - as a fan has moving rotating parts an isolation switch breaking all live conductors is required in a new install
Cupboard door is a C-10. (And that's a minus not a hyphen). Improvement recommendation: Hydraulic thingy you get on a boot.
Makes it so much more hilarious that you were calling him a lemon and a spanner before it fell on your head 😂😂
He was listening and used his voodoo magic on Tom.
Tape measure needed for checking bathroom zone limits
Yes very good point - I always have one close to hand
You are the Gordon Ramsey of Sparks! Great video just made me realise I need to up my prices!!! Thanks Tom
Regards
Gareth
Best ending to a video ever that yerno your reaction I'm crying hahahaha 🤣🤣🤣
Great video n honest guy..
I would say for the down light with no switch C3 as it not ideal to have no way of turning it off with out the fuse but there no danger to it
the start and clunk on head.. yep, we've all done it and we all still do, I still bounce head off things on the regular, breaking glasses/spectacles often.
Up here in lancashire, I charge between £80-£120 for an EICR in a domestic property (up to a 12 way board). I know of people who charge £50 per EICR and they are just not worth the paper.
Yes for London same as what we charge
Looking at a days rate for one it’ll take a day to do a house maybe 3/4 for a flat, that’s if your taking lights and sockets off to do it proper
Fire rated downlights belong in fire rated ceilings and not many ceilings need to be fire rated be careful with that .
@persona250 So many electricians don’t understand that a fire rated down light is maintain the fire rating integrity of a fire rated ceiling ... even if the ceiling is made of marshmallows they recommend them 😂🤣
All domestic ceilings have a minimum 30 minute fire rating ( plaster/ plasterboard).
Don't know what kind of house wouldn't??
Check if there is a door switch on that walk in wardrobe upstairs to switch lights on an off when you open the door..
Rewind and watch again, rewind and watch again..!
Excellent coding video. Objective and looking at actual risk using severity and likelihood. 👏👏
Flipping heck, I felt that. I had the exact same thing happen to me during an eicr! Only the door was twice as thick. You suffer concussion as a result. Blooming painful.
Tom great video as usual, But why did you think it was safe to stick your pinky through the hole in the base of that upstream RCD when the main fuse was still in and no proof of safe isolation
the upstairs dressing room with the lights on was it not switched on the door casing with a microswitch???
Title for this video should be "Electrician C1's a gaint electrical man trap, following taking wood to head" :)
Dangerous notification pull the main fuse for front end rcd.
Reason granny falls down the stairs to reset rcd then grandad get head injury when closing cupboard door
Did you try shutting the door to turn the lights off in that cupboard? I only ask as I once had a house where a cupboards lights would come on when the door opened.
It’s a trap 😂
Sorry man. Have to say I did watch the end about 6 times 😂 hope you’re good
Could that RCD not be considered a Main Switch as per the option in an EIC? And as long as it meets the disconnection time it should be fine shouldn't it?
But it switches 2 boards
No
Good video, but bathroom fans with windows in don’t need isolators, so that shouldn’t be coded.
I still think non fire rated down-lights is code 3 myself as it requires improvement, although a few seem to disagree on here! It doesn’t constitute failing it, but it could be dangerous. Anyway, it’s all down to the individual inspector, if you’re a competent electrician, it’s your choice how you code it! They don’t have to follow your advice and they can second opinions.
I thought the spotlight exposed junction exposed live ends would be a c2 as it's only accessible via tools and ladders
No tools - just the removal of a spring clip. Householder changing lamp could easily be exposed to this.
Had one of those doors on the cu at high level I a customers house used a Dyson stick to prop it open 😑
I'm pretty sure that the reference in the Code breakers book is "series connected rcds" i.e. two rcds connected in series rather than a single front end rcd.
And what danger would two RCD in series pose I ask ?
It's funny, this is literally unheard of in Australia. We have to do testing and tagging on electrical products in a commercial scene for the domestic side of things there's no regulations.
That’s untrue. I should know I’m an electrical contractor in Aus.
Very interesting to get your approach to doing EICR. There is a balance to be reached on how items are inspected but in all cases it is to do with electrical safety only. Ie all your C2 vs C3 examples can only be C3. Falling downstairs etc is not relevant. Safety wise nothing wrong with a board of breakers and external RCD in it’s day and it is still not electrically unsafe today. But then what do I know? I completed my 5 year apprenticeship with the electricity board 60 years ago!! I think your pricing is about right ….4 hrs to do it properly
NAPIT have it correct. A single RCD feeding an entire distribution board is not ideal, but is not in itself a C2. You need some other factor, like that fact that the property has a stairway, to make it into a C2. Consider a small child (who may not have experienced a power cut before) coming out of their bedroom in the dark and walking to where the know the top of the stairs to be. They could very easily fall down the stairs it is dark and their perception of where the stairs are is a bit off. In a bungalow or groundfloor flat, if other factors are not present, it would be a C3. Other factors that might be relevant would include if there was a medical device that is sustaining someone's life. Such devices should have a UPS as well as being on their own circuit and RCBO.
An area power cut would give rise to the same scenario, I work on the judgement of is it likely to cause a shock risk or fire.
Was it not once common practice to have the whole board covered by a single RCD afaik, so was compliant then but now now, thus a C3 imo.
Christopher Hulse exactly. When doing an eicr you aren’t doing a FRA or a building inspection. You are assessing the condition of the electrical installation only.
It’s a C3 not a C2. There are literally thousands of installations with upfront rcd’s.
Don't forget if you put a C1 code then you have to fix it straight away ..
@opening: If Linus was a electrician :)
17:55 - How every Monday feels to me.
Hope your tomorrow is better.
Interesting. I would not of coded the lights needing to be fire rated as the house is classes as on containment (ie not flat above) if you used the lights as a c1 you would need to isolate that circuit. I would of coded access to live parts as a c2 as it only becomes dangerous when light is removed so potentially dangerous. Just my thoughts on it.
Well presented video though.
If its a house they are fire rated to protect the joist/floor structure above. Plasterboard has a resistance to fire which the downlights should match. Nothing to do with fire compartments.
😂😱sorry Tom looks like your gut feeling was spot on....big thumb up as you are honest and talk about £££ , this really helps break the Taboo
Have had some Eicr booked and then the night before they ring up and say they can get it done alot cheaper and these drive by tester make it looks like we are over charging. Went to one after it had been tested ,10 mcbs and 2 rcds , when I asked the tenants how long they were here testing ,they said ,30 mins and the Eicr looked good but had lots of mistakes and wrong boxes ticked
Not surprising when a lot of landlords just want a certificate so they don't get fined. They don't really care what the EICR is actually for (ie safety).