FrankenPig Vs Ganna World Champs IP Analysis
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2023
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Loved the analysis! Kinda funny how every component is tailormade to reduce drag and then there's the off the shelf Asioma pedals.
Fab analysis and was a treat to watch the race
This is the kind of analysis I like to see! Dan was clearly much more disciplined about head position. Another interview with Bigham about the nuances of this event would be fascinating. Especially since the biggest difference between federations is the suit. Dan couldn't use the bioracer suit having to use the kalas instead. Ganna's cockpit seems much more tuned, I don't know if Dan feel's pressure to use his own product.
It would also be interesting to see an analysis of the kask mistral and its recent dominance. In addition to the exterior form factor a lot of thought has clearly gone into the vent structure and internal flow.
I think both of our cockpit's are quite optimised around our positions for different reasons. Ganna has a lot more stack to play with and therefore uses that to maniulate the flow structures coming off the cockpit. For myself I don't have much stack due to my size, so use the extension profile and arm rest to similar effect. I'm quite luckily with the amount of testing I get to do and therefore have a good understanding of the buttons, dials and levers to pull to influence my own aerodynamics (positively or negatively!), and that area has been quite fruitful recently.
Happy to jump on the channel for another interview soon!
Gannas new road Extensions are straight again so i dont think these are so good. Bingham is riding a custom Vorteq suit and not the kalas
@@danbigham6184you don't think the opening with the angle adjust spacer isn't at least something worth moving away from since your fit is dialed?
@@veganpotterthevegan I don't think my fit is dialled (probably never will be). There's plenty more ideas in the pipeline ahead of the Olympics...
@danbigham6184 I hope so. I'd love to see you win gold! Still wonder how much drag those spacers create though. And maybe not having extensions that are one piece with the cups. I'm sure they're all small, but is there a half second in there?
Very interesting analysis. Thanks for doing that.
Awesome analysis! I know Ganna isn't fussed on the tiny details such as the pedals, he refused to swap to aero speedplays and kept on his trusty SPD-SLs. He is no slouch with taking the hour record and being a beast on the road but there are still many ways he can improve no matter how small.
I'd love to see you do a video on Joshua Tarling, now teammates with both of them and already producing WT TT results as a teenager with still lots of time left in his career.
Could you also talk about the mens road individual time trial. Remco evenepoels extra stuffed race radio used as a chest modifier was interesting.
Thanks for sharing insights. Very interesting to learn from
I noticed that Dan strayed above the red line on the track a couple of times in the final stages of the race. As the black line is the shortest distance around the track could this have been the difference for him between Silver and Gold?
Yes probably but he also blew up which didn’t help
Yes 😞
@@danbigham6184 Great ride though mate and you were part of probably the best individual pursuit there's ever been. Congrats on the medal
The Kalas Skinsuit that Dan was wearing has the vortex creating "dimples" integrated into the sleeves. So no separated underbra like from rule28.
And many thanks for the explanation, you rock 💪👍💪👍
Would love to hear your analysis on the wheel system
Once again, thanks for boosting the audio
A very interesting question is, why is Dan on the Pinarello when team GB have the Hope x Lotus. Commercial reasons, or is the Pinarello the faster bike?
Pinarello is INEOS sponsor, and he has been working with them to improve their bike with the goal of making Ganna faster for the hour record 😂 so at this point I would guess he's much faster on a bike that he helped develop
I see this contraption mainly as splitter, keeping the airflow from curling up and inside the helmet. As you can see, Dan's visor edge is already near horisontal, hence no necessity. He still could benefit from side parts, generating vorteces for the shoulders, even them being narrower. Yet that domain is mostly dominated by the flow coming from forhead and above.
But the main question we have since when it appeared earlier (at Giro, I believe?), why other teams and manufacurers don't do it? It's not like you have to redesign the helmet shell
Worth noting that Dan's extensions are not the normal WattShop Anemoi we're used to seeing. Changes in the regs mean the max extension width have gone from 40mm to 50mm, and it looks like they've used that to make extensions that fit around the forearms further.
MORE TRACK CONTENT PLEASE!! LOVE IT
Ganna did go onto destroying the ITT catching two riders in front of him, including Pogacar.
So in what mode had Remco ride?
@@artemkoinash799 I think Evenepoel paced better throughout - Ganna blasted through the first two intermediates.
@@artemkoinash799hilly course, Remco's lighter it was better suited to him than Ganna.
Great video….. the tech info is 🤯🤯😍
Great vid ❤
Youve mentioned it quite a lot that smaller riders will benefit more from bike optimisation than tall riders. What are the things you'd focus on to make tall riders faster? There are a lot of small vs big scenarios such as the ganna v dan or milan vs Olivera but even looking at the most promising tt specialists remco vs tarling.
How can big watts from big riders be made more efficient?
As always love the vids mate.
It's a given that higher altitude equals times due to lower air density but at the expense of lower ultimate power. I wonder if any thought has been given to putting the mouth and nose into a higher pressure area via body position and/or equipment so that there is extra oxygen available. The head down and bum up position for TT cycling has to have a lower static pressure being fed to the lungs that the tunnel ram position of heads up.
Interesting point. I'll crunch some numbers on it, but my gut feeling is that the impact is negligble from an oxygen supply perspective, and if there was a benefit it would have to be very large to overcome the negative aerodynamic impact of a higher head position.
Well that's a surprise. I wasn't expecting an aero god to be replying to my rambling. All aero/power advantage should be forwarded to Aussie cyclists btw. ;)
I wasn't thinking of a change of a head position as much as a change in the helmet/visor to maybe bump a localised pressure increase.
I’m always surprised we don’t see a blade/wedge shape on the forks to deflect air away from the knee/lower leg.
Probably prohibited in the bike regs.
I do wonder if Bigham has found more gains in CdA for himself or Ganna while he has been with Ineos. I would like to see a plot of W/CdA versus date for Dan to see if gains are accelerating or plateauing .
I failed to find the final IP ride on CZcams; I only found the qualifying ride they did against each other. If anyone can post a link, it would be much appreciated.
Very cool. Bigham is a legend.
Can I use a pannier to generate these speedy vortices for my body?
Are there savings in using a lace up shoe vs boa dials? Even with shoe covers they sorta poke out of the profile of the shoe.
Yes there are.
I know Q Factor on the Fav Assioma Duo Shi is controversial but for bigger riders like myself I find the wider Q Factor more comfortable. I wonder if Ganna feels the same.
I too feel that way. With a wider Q factor my PCO (pedal center offset) is reduced.
Sometimes a wider Q factor can be better for power too.
I've experimented with mine a bit on speedplay pedals and have found better general power when I adopt a wider stance, but some knee issues after 2 hours of riding. That said, I'm a climber, so a narrower Q factor should benefit me.
Depends on whether you gain more power there than you lose aerodynamically. I assume for Ganna as a big rider, he gains an overall advantage.
@@PeakTorquewhat does pedal center offset mean? Sorry iam not a native speaker
@@simonsimon8213 it means how much outside the pedal center line i am pushing the force.
@@PeakTorque thanks, where can one see that?
Big cylinders on those assiomas too!
Excelente video
What’s ur wristwatch?
@PeakTorque Evenepoel uploaded a video last week where he showed how they prepared his WC time trial, it doesn't really give much technical information but I thought maybe interesting for you, or maybe can you get his trainer on for a chat or something
Wonder when we'll start seeing aero design integrated into the drops in road bike bars (if legal)
Already seeing it on the ribble ultra
Dan Bigham actually used to ride the ribble ultra but forgoes the special wake generating bars in favor of more conventional aero shape
@@danielsvedberg2439 Interesting bars on that. I was thinking maybe something more like how Ganna's aerobars have that S shape but incorporating that idea into the lower part of drops.
Good to see Shell kept off the top spot
Also note Belgium team sponsored by Esso
INEOS is laughing big from Ganna's hip
Climate nutter 🤣
Saw it irl. Very cool.
Maybe stupid question:
Was nobody ever able to design gloves that are more aero than bare hands with all those knuckles, gaps, thumbs, etc?
Or is that prohibited already?
I have a pair of Castelli "aero" gloves. They look funny and I can't tell a difference
2:40 anyone else find the image of ganna looking to the side across the track incredibly funny??
edit : same with bigham at 4:57
The arm rests on dans bike are a turbulator
585w for 4 mins sound right for ganna
Ganna doesn't use the narrow q-factor because he doesn't like it and when he doesn't like something he will refuse to use it no matter how irrational his reasoning. He used a wider q-factor for the HR even though Dan tried to convince him otherwise.
Since everybody is so fixated on me criticising the q-factor; Ganna has been known to refuse using other equipment like extensions, helmets, clothing,... because he doesn't like it or because he changed something and then got a bad result even if it might not have been the fault of the change. Not to the level where you might call him arrogant or a diva but it is a quirk of his.
To be fair to Ganna he has wider hips and there is probably knee pain or inefficient power production if he adopts too narrow a q factor.
Ganna is also a bit duck footed. It's not just about not liking it. It's just a terrible fit for him. People that are pigeon toed will largely benefit from the narrowest q factor possible.
*It would be extremely irrational for Ganna to run a super narrow q factor
@hallockstuart7899 hip width isn't that important. Hip rotation, how vertical your femur is when standing, the angle of your tibia and natural foot rotation matter. I have wide hips and wish I could have a 20mm wide bottom bracket😅
While a narrow Q factor may be faster aerodynamically, that doesn't make not using it irrational. Ganna is primarily a road rider, and may believe he can get more power out in a stance he is familiar with. And even if he can get the same power out, the nagging feeling that something doesn't "feel right" can weigh upon the mind.
@andrewmcalister3462 Ganna has always been a track cyclist too. His first senior world title was on the track
I haven't seen this question because It might be dumb, but I'll ask it anyway: Why not anyone in the comments have asked about the beards? They have spent ten of thousands of dollars for a few watts improvement... But a 25c shave is too crazy now? or is it a gentlemen agreement?
Rough surface, energising boundary layer, maybe half a watt in that, who knows.
It all must drive poor engineer-dude-Bigham crazy. If he paces it just a bit better and therefore does a better job in the last 2 turns = he wins easy. Still, respect to him though for even being able to compete / having a shot at such a thing. Absolute bonkers.
Dan is and has been fully pro for at least 10 years.
Please can you send me the money I should've been paid for the last 10 years to ride my bike? I've never been a professional cyclist, I've always made my income from being an engineer.
@@danbigham6184 😃 I meant professional in approach, attitude and application. I hope your contract with Ineos is making ammends for the previous years hardship✌️
@@tednruth453I really feel a lot of things I did 10 years ago at Uni weren’t that professional! 🍻😂
@@danbigham6184 no regrets! .....was it enough to have made the difference between 🥇and 🥈though? 😃
Le Moustache visor. 😅
Imagine how fast the times would be if they were allowed to use EPO etc.
Phew .it's a pity he never won
Omg aero is so complicated 😅
WTF is a "flat white"? Is it like "spag bol"?
Yep
You say the Individual Pursuit is good to watch on CZcams but I can tell you it was much better in real life. I was there in the velodrome that night. It was a cracking race.
Say what, they were using 23mm/25mm tires?? Hummmm there goes the marketing bullshit that "wider is faster" Eh eh
Horses for courses!
Wider tyres probably make more logical sense on asphalt. Of course, linoleum is a totally different beast.
Tire speed on a track vs on the road is quite different. Speeds on the track are substantially higher, making the aero penalty of a wider tire greater. Also, because the track is so smooth, a thinner tire at high pressure compared to road doesn't create the same vibrations it would be the road, minimizing the benefits a larger tire brings in that regard.
But sure, if you want to pretend physics is marketing BS, please feel free. It does make me question why you're watching this channel though...
No vibrational losses on track, really.
5000 TT tires?? Tubeless??? With tubulars, they used to run 150-180 psi. What pressures are they running with tubeless?