Scary pilot error in IMC conditions - Incident review of Jerry Wagner and his Cessna 421
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- IMPORTANT NOTE! Please read!
***Turning off the AP was not the best idea. It's like an airline captain knocking out his perfectly working co-pilot. HDG mode in existing heading should have been the very first course of action.***
This video is in the spirit of aviation fellowship and safety.
It is not meant to bash any pilot for any mistakes.
All comments will be held for review, and if they are negative, I will not allow them to be published.
Here is the original video of Jerry Wagner:
• Air Wagner April 25 20...
Please follow his channel, as his videos are wonderful, fun, and entertaining.
Special thanks to Jerry for allowing me to make this video. It takes a big man to allow to be criticized publicly like this, for the sake of all of us, to learn from his mistake. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I have discovered, pilots who believe that such an occurrence would never happen to them are not the ones to listen to in the first place. I have seen 10,000 hour pilots make mistakes just like 100 hour pilots. I know I have made my share. The best thing to do is to learn from them. Thank you Jerry and Noam for letting us all learn from the mistakes you are willing to show on your channels. We will all be better pilots for it.
Please, please, please do more videos like this. This was SO informative and useful (including the final section). You're saving lives, man. Well done.
As always, Noam, excellent material, even better narration, and extremely educational! Well done..you're the best!
Excellent review! Thank you for the video Noam.
Thanks for the video. As a student pilot, with much to learn, I enjoy these types of videos; even though most of what you’re saying is going right over my head, I still learn from them. And I also enjoyed the ‘pants down’ comment towards the end…nice one. Thanks again.
Well done, great debriefing. Thanks for the script. Please let Jerry know that I
appreciate him having the insight to realize how important this video is. His willingness to share this is very generous. I think it’s his most influential video in a long list of good videos.
Yea, appreciate Jerry’s videos especially when he shows and owns up to his mistakes. Just wish he would spend more time exploring more of California and even farther, he gets so comfortable in that Bay Area back yard flying you can see he’s always out of his comfort zone when he makes long trips.
Lots of value with both your video and Jerry's. Good for both of you to put yourselves out there and leave egos behind. These types of examples are good for any pilot to review and remember .. always learning..thx from Bend!
Jerry has had plenty of scary moments. Seems like trends should be captured, but not in his case.
Great information thank you very much for putting this together. Also a big thank you to Jerry as well.
This is a nice addendum to Jerry’s video, BUT - I have to disagree with you on Activate Vectors to Final. On the 750 and 750Xi, this DOES NOT lose any waypoints. It just gives you a LEG to intercept. In almost all approaches, once ATC starts giving headings, they will be vectoring you to this extended leg. Rarely they will give you a direct to an approach waypoint. In that case, in the 750’s, you still have the waypoints. This isn’t the case in the older Garmins, which is why you don’t like it. But it is the absolute right thing to do with the 750’s, and also the 3000/5000 series Garmins.
I saw a video with Garmin personnel giving a training session and they actually recommended to not use Activate Vectors to Final, but rather load the whole approach.
@@charliebravo01 I would think that depends on whether you're being vectored to final on an ILS - or shooting a full RNAV / GPS approach.
There's a big difference. If you're being vectored to final on an ILS, you'll continuously be getting new headings to intercept the localizer
about five or three miles out from the final approach fix - depending on how busy they are. You can also be getting vectors to final
for a GPS / LPV - it's very similar to an ILS. On the RNAV / GPS, you can always ask for the full approach. But in busy airports, you
will often be given headings / vectors. When that happens, one of my favorite features in the Garmin is "activate vectors to final."
Great video! Very insightful and well thought out. As a pilot that was trained and has flown IMC with 'raw' steam gauges, the computerization of aircraft/navigation has both simplified and complicated flying. Aside from maintaining good positional and situational awareness, I was always taught to Aviate (fly the plane) first, Navigate second, and then communicate. And definitely no shame in telling ATC you need some help. Always better to eventually land safe on the ground than to be burried in your airplane beneath it. Stay safe and CAVU!
Very thoughtful. Thanks for taking the time.
Wow, thank you this was fantastic advice and learning session! I did watch Jerry video also and said the same to him. But yours was really educational.
What a great video, I missed the dive in the original video, wow! 35 year airline captain and this is a great video to share with my peers. We train for what we call "UAS", Undesired Aircraft State and recovery called "UPRT" training, Upset Prevention and Recovery Training. With well over 40 years of flying experience and 20,000+ hours, with my own 421, I realize the value of the autopilot. I fly my sim at home to stay current on my small plane, and I can't tell you how many times I've gotten distracted with avionics or something else, very easy to do. I practice now at home with the autopilot off and try to recall my instructor's voice back when I was a teen working on my instrument rating, saying "don't stare", God rest his soul, no autopilot in that old 172 under the hood. Now with all of the modern sophisticated machinery, (787 in my case), it's easy to forget that the autopilot is not on in small planes when getting distracted with a task. I try to maintain the discipline of keeping a constant scan and making flying the primary task at hand, especially with the autopilot off.
What was alarming is how fast the airplane rolled and the nose fell during the distraction. Fortunately, there was plenty of altitude and airspeed and the UAS was brief. I can't thank Jerry enough for sharing this with all of us and the admission of error, amazing humility!!! We are all human and make mistakes no matter how good, lucky and big our egos are. I'm thankful that the FAA has created an environment where they acknowledge this and allow for the submission of ASRS (FSAPS in airline language), etc., so that we can all learn rather than taking the hammer to our heads and the match to our licenses!
This also really drives home, for us airline types, the reason that we verbalize things. It can seem that we are talking too much, but after watching this, it becomes readily apparent that VVM (Verbalize-Verify-Monitor) is of the utmost importance!
That was sage advice about sterile cockpit! Sometimes the biggest threat is complacency and over confidence. I'm not saying that about Air Wagner, but I'm speaking to those who believe this can't happen to them!!!
Thanks for the great video and I am now a subscriber!
Definitely a learning experience for all of us. We train for unusual attitude recovery in IMC but it is scary to watch how fast things can deteriorate. The new ESP control and LVL blue button on the new autopilots are there for a reason and a nice safety feature.
Respect ✊ on this video. That makes you to an extremely sensitive person, and a great pilot. You are 100% right. And it’s 1.000% thankful, you made this video. And thanks to Jerry Wagner posting this. The first thing happened to me in the video, was to focus me too on the thing Jerry is doing with the Garmin. It took me also a few seconds to realize, what the plane is doing. And the horizon goes crazy. So did this happen to Jerry’s co pilot. He was watching, was Jerry was doing, not realizing, what the horizon right in front of him is doing. This view seconds in happening have just such a big learning curve. So again, great awesome job to you two posting these videos. Hopefully it reminds especially the high hours pilots of their routine that can easily lead into the end of everything. Of course it affects all kind of pilots who fly IFR. Thank you for this experience. And always happy landings. ❤😊☝️🙏🙋♂️
@@FlyWithNoam yes thats right. No more words on this needed. I was just wondering about the guy in the right seat, watching Jerry instead of watching the plane and horizon. In other videos he seemed to be a pilot too. Well, it doesn’t matter anyway. You are right.
Thank you! This is the very thing I pointed out to him and he insisted it was “coordinated and in control” I’m like you, let’s learn but you do have to admit there was a problem and it was not the programming of the GPS. It’s hard! Task saturation sets in and it’s not easy to think, like all tasks pre-rehearsing what you will do is key, great video.
Spirit Air lines does not operate 737’s.
I really appreciate this video. Also, I never liked vectors to final, so thanks for the insight on using the 530.
Outstanding video. I can happen to any of us. Very helpful tips on loading the approach as well. I NEVER use vectors to final. Thank you!
Side note: Eastern 401 crash had 75 (initially 77) survivors.
Thanks for posting this video and very thoughtful commentary. I've seen Jerry's videos, and this isn't the first time he's gotten tangled up with the automation and momentary losses of control. The rest of my comments come from the context of watching the original video also in its entirety.
I think the best thing would be to have someone really spend a lot of time going through many different scenarios and get him up to speed on the glass. He basically dismissed this error as him mistakenly hitting "Activate approach" in lieu of "Activate vectors" because his "co-pilot's" hand was in the way. He missed the point.. His gross error was forgetting to fly. Keeping the AP on and switching to heading mode would've kept the dirty side down, and allowed him to slow his brain down, confess to ATC, and set up his box. Better than continuing, as the creator mentioned, asking for a heading and going around would've been far less dramatic. I'm really concerned that there are many moments in the original video (and many of his CZcams videos) where he seems to question what the plane is doing. This just shows he's not quite up to speed on the automation, and presently lacks some situational awareness. I'm also concerned with the role of the right seat pilot. There were times Jerry was asking the right seater to accomplish tasks as if it were a 2-crew airplane and they were flying with an established SOP. The right seater at times didn't understand what Jerry wanted. That's probably to be expected because I presume there isn't an SOP that they follow and the right-seater is mostly along for the ride. For example saying, "You got it" when the intent was for the right-seater to answer a radio call. Very ambiguous and just inviting a misunderstanding. Jerry was narrating and teaching the right seater when his focus should've been on simply flying. As it is, Jerry is task saturated in his most basic of flights, so adding the complexity of trying to coordinate, narrate, and teach wasn't appropriate in my humble opinion. I would happily look Jerry in the eye and tell him all of this, or post this same comment on his videos, but he turns them off. I get it.. the poor guy would've likely taken a beating on this flight instead of constructive criticism. Jerry seems like a very nice guy and I admire his courage. I hope others are able to benefit.
good one Noam .. yes need to be scanning those gauges often . so important .. fly first .. navigate .. communicate
Thanks for your comments on this. I too am a Jerry Wagner fan and I watched this the other day and gasped when that descending right turn occurred as he shifted his concentration to the garmin. I always remember my instructors pounding into my head ..FLY THE AIRPLANE FIRST! Flying IMC can be very task saturating.
It’s all about learning from our mistakes. I’ve posted some of mine in the hopes others learn from them. Always get those keyboard heroes that trash talk but it’s all good. A good pilot is always learning!
Having both guys bumping hands pushing buttons at the same time on the GTN wasn't helpful. Poor CRM potentially part of the issue on this one?
@@FlyWithNoam Thanks for posting. I edited my comment to add in CRM as an issue. Hopefully in their debrief they discussed that.
Excellent video, i second your opinion on activating vectors to final. I for one try to tell my intentions/wish when talking to ATC by reportingy position in reference to the IAF I'm hoping to get, works 90% of the time, remaining 10% i activate another leg !
It's scary how fast the plane will turn and dive if you're not paying attention.
My issue on an AP failure was climbing into the Class Bravo just before getting clearance into it. On departure under the Memphis Bravo,I expected the AP to turn another 30-40 degrees to the right and level off, and instead the plane went wings level and continued to climb while I was getting my clearance. I shoved it over, but clipped into the Bravo a good 300-400ft.
I hand flew the aircraft around lots of CBs for over an hour before I got above the weather and could "reboot the aircraft" and get the AP back
Love the detailed explination of the possible approachs. Hillsburo has a lot more than I normally deal with
On a flight from KGTU to KDWH, I loaded the RNav 35L approach and was flying the KGTU ILEXY3.JayJo DP, and the controller asked if I was setting up for a Northenly landing since I took the southern exit. He told me winds had changed and advised for the RNav 17R entry instead and direct TUFFS, which of course I didn't have up, so I asked for a heading while I loaded it up.
You can see the weird change around the halfway point.
flightaware.com/live/flight/N732EL/history/20230212/2316Z/KGTU/KDWH
Love the videos
Yup, I’ve made quite a few mistakes heads down. Always have George on, or pass the controls if you’re able while programming the FMS.
HELL YES agree 100% with everything you said here and this is the safety culture we need
Very good. I agree with your technique not using vectors to final but the big gotcha with the Garmin with an ILS in your scenario is you must remember to sequence to a leg or waypoint ahead of you sometime. If you don’t and go missed the gps will still be headed toward a waypoint behind you on the approach. Ask me how I know this lol!
My first and second Approach ever were in IMC. First an ILS low approach with the G1000 and AP flying mostly. Second back home for an RNAV I’d never even practiced in the Sim and my CFII had me hand fly it. RNAV 34 into KRNT. It has a turn within 4 miles at 1600 and trying to follow the FD, reference the plate and scan instruments I cocked it up and got way to slow. CFII was watching and probably expected me to F it up and warned me while pushing the nose down. It was a good lesson in hand flying while rushed in an unfamiliar situation.
It only takes seconds to get unstable when hand flying while distracted. And screwing around with avionics or AP is a great way to get distracted.
If we keep the heading bug under the lubber line, then when the navigator starts turning the plane in a way we don’t expect, all we have to do is go to heading mode. That will return us to the heading we were maintaining, and I think it is safer in Imc than fully disconnecting the autopilot. If Jerry wanted to activate vectors to final, perhaps he should have engaged heading mode first so that he would remain on the intercept vector, then arm the approach mode. Anyway, many videos show that lots of pilots don’t keep the heading bug under the lubber line, and they are missing out on an easy way to stop the autopilot from executing an incorrect turn.
@Noam501SP, I just provided a lengthy response to an earlier comment below - which I hope you'll read. But I wanted to add separately that I just discovered your channel (and happily sub'd). Your videos have great integrity and you're obviously knowledgeable and thoughtful with your presentations. Much respect. Much appreciated.
Well, I completely disagree with the statement that disconnecting the AP is the right thing to do and this why. It is hard to aviate, navigate, and communicate while hand flying in IMC and the AP is there to reduce the workload so that the pilot can more safely concentrate on other things, which in this case is reprograming the approach. Just watch how the aircraft quickly enters an unusual attitude when this pilot disengages the AP and focuses on the Garmin! Simply synching the heading but and selecting heading mode is FAR better than immediately dumping your most useful helper. Even Flightsafety teaches that whenever possible, it is always far better to get some help from the AP when things go sideways. Stay on the AP, reprogram the GPS, and fess up. That's how to best handle this kind of situation. Advocating disconnecting the AP at the first sign of trouble is a hold over from 30 year old training methods back when GA analog autopilots were nowhere as reliable and well behaved as they are now. Noam, just curious: Aare you an instructor and how much sim-training have you done at FSI?
@@FlyWithNoam LOL!!!! The haters are here. Is his 40 year old aircraft and it's specific avionics certified to conduct autolands to CAT IIIB requirements?
Great analysis. This is so much more valuable that to shit on Jerry, forgetting that "this could happen to me".
I have made both mistakes: getting into bank I didn't want in IMC, and going off in the wrong direction when selection Activate Approach.
I would point out that if the automation doesn't do what's expected, then reducing automation is the right answer. In this case, this could have meant switching to HDG mode rather than turning off the AP. That would have kept the wings level. on the approach heading to facilitate safer troubleshooting.
As a pilot with 7k hours and type ratings etc... these are all very easy mistakes that can be made on any level, add some confusion of a second pilot, or atc difficult to understand, or other issues, mistakes can happen quicker than you expect. Great video and learning lesson
We hear so much of non IFR rated pilots getting in trouble that it shadows the times when very experienced IFR pilots get in trouble. As a low time sport pilot this scares the hell out of me.
Edited for grammar.
I found that, even though I have been closely monitoring the flight and navigation instrumenrs, there is always a "catch up" period when I turn off the autopilot before I am truly in sync with the airplane. I've been flying for nearly 60 years, and long ago developed a great deal of mistrust in autopilot. They always seemed to malfunction, often in a dramatic manner, at the worst possible time. Of all the airplanes I have owned, only three had autopilots that didn't try to kill me. That notwithstanding, there is always a slight delay in transitioning to hand flying before catching up with the airplane, and focusing on flying the plane before tackling other problems is a must. In addition, while modern GPS units are incredibly useful, they can also be distracting, especially during approaches or other high workload phases of flight. Transitioning to hand flying and falling prey to the desire to fiddle with a GPS without first getting back into the mode of actually flying the airplane can be a recipe for disaster. The current avionics are much more user friendly than early IFR GPS units, though. I used to fly an A36 equipped with an IFR approved Northstar GPS, but using it for an approach required a lot of button pushing and knob twirling while shooting the approach, highly distracting. Due to that, I never used it for approaches (of which there were few back then), instead setting the destination airport, which helped maintain overall awareness while shooting a "normal" approach (NDB, VOR, ILS,etc). Distractions wile at low altitude in IMC can be deadly. BTW, flying on autopilot does nothing to maintain proficiency. I disconnected the autopilot in my current 310 about 24 years ago, and, frankly, I don't miss it.
I’d like to know PNF’s thoughts on the scenario in question.
Seems like touching on the map on the screen would be an easier way for Garmin to set this up so you can see visually where you are and where you are going ?
I think Jerry is a great guy and a good pilot. We are all human and we make mistakes. I am glad he did not cover it up. I like jerry only issue I have against him is he is a Raiders fan
You don’t have to be IFR to have this happen. Navigating with my IPAD VFR has pulled me into it twice for much too long to stick my head back outside and realize I’m in a 60 degree bank. No engine noise change or any indication what is happening while fixating inside. I now understand how it can happen and watch out for it. Plus I informed my wife that if we are rolling off into a strafing run , please say or do something if I’m not watching.
You have 50 year old analog autopilot that trys to work in the digital world. Use heading bug to help steer the plane.
If you use the copilot, establish SOP's. The PNF should monitor approach and altitudes. Too hands on the Garmin isnt necessary. Both pilots need better Situational Awarness. If i was copilot, ive had my own foreflight setup for the approach.
The lesson thanks to Jerry for sharing, is just how quickly the plane can get away. Dont expect a 50 year old autopilot to capture. Always have the ILS Backup on frequency to assist with guidance. Especially, if your flying as two pilots.
Great analysis! I am a great fan of the air wagner videos as well. I am most concerned how he would handle an engine out just after rotation close to max gross weight at his home airport. If you have Jerrys ear it would be great if you could discuss this with him.
@@FlyWithNoam My worry is that he treats the 421 as a jet and that at v1 you are comitted to fly. I believe it was one of the recent videos flying to Yosemite with 4 people onboard. He is a great guy and it would be sad if he ends up in a vmc roll.
@@FlyWithNoam From april 29 2023. It is not an engine failure. My concern is what would happen if he had one. He might have it all planned out to close the trottles and land gear up straight ahead, but my worry is that he is “comitted to fly”.
@@FlyWithNoam czcams.com/video/myQhYeOXqy4/video.html
@@FlyWithNoam yes it is nicer with jets! At 200 feet agl I believe you have a chance in a piston twin but on the runway at rotation speed you are an accident waiting to happen.
excellent video, thanks. If you are not CFI, make sure to add your disclaimer... cya
Always have your ILS or VOR ready to go as a back up. If something thing happens to primary NAV then you can still fly old school. This is an example of forgetting on how to fly the plane not the screens or letting the tech fly.
Agreed should have never turned off the AP just the tech flying it.
I have a 1973 Piper Arrow with new Garmin toys. On approach to KTLH in real IMC I pushed the wrong button and had to reload the the approach. Luckily there were 2 pilots up front. KTLH approach asked why we missed a turn, I was honest and said I think I screwed up loading my new Garmin toy, “This is what happens when the airplane is far smarter than both pilots brain cells…..and we are just 2 damned Yankees.” They laughed gave us a new heading and then helped load the approach. It was obvious the controller flew Garmin.
I owned up to it after completely blowing the approach and ATC asking what I was doing. I have been trained how to use the box but still bouncing around on approach I did something wrong and was oblivious to it. ATC helped and it all worked out.
Kinda wondering what was the co-pilot doing at that moment too for him to not notice nose down spiral starting. Shows even 2 pilots can spiral into the ground in a 1g descent in imc. An RV10 crashed around that area by golden gate bridge not too long around in imc.
@@FlyWithNoam Yeah there's several lessons in that video. Proper division of duties and transfer PIC authority should be clear. Both there hands on the panel at same time isn't good.
I posted my previous comment before watching to the end. Doesn’t change anything, but it is clear you fly older Garmin navigators. Your entire logic around the “Activate Vectors to…” as a bad feature was probably true with the Garmin 430/530/G1000 series, but is not the case with the 650/750/3000/5000 series. Here’s the right way to think about the approach when using the latest Garmins. Load your approach with the most generous set of waypoints in your direction. As you are descending, at some point ATC will likely start vectoring you. The moment they give your first vector, unless they say it is for traffic or spacing, just activate vectors to final. YOU DON’T LOSE ANY WAYPOINTS ON YOUR APPROACH. Doing the activation gives you an infinite leg terminating at the FAF. This is your intercept leg. The last vector they give you when they clear you for the approach WILL intercept this leg. Or, they will give you direct to one of the fixes. With the new Garmin’s you still have that fix in the plan. Find it, select it, Direct, Activate, APpRoach. Easy Peasy.
Thanks for putting this up, but it needs these corrections to reflect the equipment in Jerry’s plane. I like Jerry’s videos, but both his and your video makes clear that you both need Garmin 750 training. They are different, and VERY improved navigators.
@@FlyWithNoam It isn’t “defaulting to the FAF”. It is activating a LEG, that happens to (correctly) terminate at the FAF. This is the same scenario as intercepting any leg on a route. Since you are currently in heading mode, it doesn’t matter that the final point on that leg is the FAF. You are in heading, you arm the approach (when cleared), and the system stays in heading mode until the intercept when the system automatically transitions to Approach mode and flies the approach. This is the same as what happens when you are, for example, on a departure, get vectors (so you go to heading mode), and then are told to intercept a leg of your plan. You activate the leg, hit Nav, but you remain in heading mode until you intercept the leg and then it transitions to Nav to follow the activated leg.
Really suggest you and Jerry both get specific training in this new generation of Garmins. They are different and better.
@@FlyWithNoam Yes you got it! They made a major improvement with the 750 generation. And you are also right I don’t need to know the CJ4, but I’d *love* to fly with you in it sometime! Trade you for time in my TBM! :-)
@@FlyWithNoam I also agree the touch screen can be bothersome. Two mitigators: 1) they put raised edges on the units, it helps to practice using the edges as braces. 2) Almost everything can be done with creative use of the knobs, if it’s really turbulent.
I wonder if instead of disconnecting autopilot, setting heading hold mode and asking for a vector might help?
I do admit I need more hand flying time in IMC, but it’s just not super comfortable. But heading hold mode is kind of like the “level” button on Cirrus for example.
Of course sync the heading bug before engaging heading mode…
GTN750 vectors to final. I'm not quite understanding your explanation. Your suggestion is that while on vectors, you enter direct to the waypoint you believe ATC is guiding you to. This is done so that you don't loose all the other approach waypoints, as you would if you activated vectors to final. Can you explain why you would not rather activate the leg which you feel you are going to intercept? Thanks you the videos.
@@FlyWithNoam I agree, using "vectors to final" you loose all your waypoints. I have always "activated the leg" which i think ATC is vectoring me to. Then to intercept i just have to hit "nav" on the autopilot. Direct to is a bit different, but maybe i will give that a try.
Just getting back in the cockpit after 10 years, studying videos preparing for a bunch of recurrence training. Instead of "I'm all screwed up" I'd say "I made a mistake" or "I screwed up." The word "all" sounds like there's something wrong besides a single error. If I was ATC I might be thinking you've got a bunch of problems, or something major. I'd just be a bit more specific, but my flying & instrument rating has 10+ years of rust so what do I know?
I like your comment at 10:00, if wonderfully trimmed, take your hands off of the controls. A buddy of mine, who’s an ATP, has always stressed the same thing to me. A well-trimmed airplane will do a better job of straight and level than you will if you’re looking away and fiddling with the GPS or radios with your hands on the yoke.
My compliments on your approach to reviewing Jerry's video and your recommendation to ask for a heading (I'll definitely use that if I need to). Jerry is very courageous to post it so we can all learn. I've watched all his videos and he is a good single pilot IFR pilot (he's really not in a 2 crew situation, he runs the show single pilot). His video demonstrates the risk of single pilot IFR. My main takeaway is to always make sure I'm stabilized on the attitude gauge and in trim (the Aspen in my aircraft has all the information needed) if I disconnect the AP. I have made all the button mistakes on GPS and ILS approaches in VMC in practice including out of trim AP situations. The biggest lesson is making sure you are stabilized before moving you head to do something else and be mentally prepared to miss the approach. I have AP / GPS Navigator personal minimums for actual IFR approaches. On GPS approaches at the initial contact I always request a direct clearance to an IAF and a specific approach (decline Vectors to Final for GPs clearances because to many button pushes and possible errors for my KFC 200 / Aspen combo). I will accept Vectors to Final for ILS approaches or direct to an IAF. I have higher ceiling / visibility minimums but also autopilot / GPS navigator minimums requirements because I fly single pilot IFR in a Mooney with a specific avionics configuration. Another takeaway is if the controller gives an instruction that requires a GPS change while maneuvering for the approach, I will immediately ask for delay vectors to get set up. As you can see in Jerry's video, doing multiple critical activities low and slow in IMC creates significant risk in single pilot IFR. Thanks again to you and Jerry.
Yeah watch his video and that steep turn freaked me out! Probably better it ended up being nose low and fast instead of flirting with a stall spin… but both could have been fatal especially if it were near more terrain.
Agree that stuff can happen to any Pilot BUT there is so much poor airmanship in that video. And that is one of the worst displays of a crew working together as I have ever seen. No clear and thought out duties for either, just winging it. Bad deal.
@@FlyWithNoam I 100% concur with everything you have said here. The USA has far too many GA fatalities even though they are on the decline. In my opinion there would/could be far far more bad outcomes were it not for the actual relative ease of flying most aircraft which are usually maintained to a rigorous standard, excellent robust engineering & design of airframes, components and engines and avionics. This is in contrast to the average car driver, many of whom don't even check fluids, air pressures, chassis and compartment integrity and also appear to have no spatial awareness of other road users and also do not drive according to prevailing road conditions. "Some" GA pilots unfortunately fall into this latter category and they really worry me! ;-)
Just a thought I think set AP to heading mode even if off course prior to correcting Routing once fixed than back to Nav. that is what the best use of the autopilot is if you don't have co pilot. Also, one can never have enough hand flying IMC it will screw the best of Pilots up when IMC hits them ! Guilty myself
@@FlyWithNoam I do not disagree May times I have Hit the disconnect when the Autopilot was not doing what I thought it should most of the time My error the heading idea was just so the plane did not do the Start of a steep turn that as you know windes up fast. Thanks for taking the time that you do for the betterment of all of us. See ya on FATPNW
I don’t know, I have been taught to just set heading mode so that I can work hands free on autopilot, then turn heading bug towards the vector while reprogramming. Often in IMC I turn autopilot off to practice once wings are level, but going manual in this situation is scary.
@Noam501SP Absolutely; I do my practice approaches in VMC with instructors and safety pilots, but when I am flying single pilot IFR I do hand fly in IMC but agree I should go up with an instructor to spend an hour hand flying in the soup including practicing holds hand flown in the clouds. I do these in VMC, but rarely in IMC. That being said in a real life situation using the heading hold mode in a situation like this still makes more sense.
This is. VERY scary. I have flown a lot of hours in IMC and I rarely fly to much IMC without autopilot. Doesn’t matter about your experience it’s just still dangerous
Excellent video! I’ve been watching Jerry for years and can appreciate his honesty. I too learned early on never to use VTF on the GNS430W when one day ATC told me to “Expect VTF” then gave me a fix outside the FAF, (a real OH SHIT moment followed by me asking vectors for the fix and some fast button pushing. After that day I saw this video from AV Web czcams.com/video/d1P0RIiaylQ/video.html. and this is the method I use to this day. Cheers!
I am guilty of doing the exact same thing on a flight from Florida to Boston. I believe this is what happened to JFK Jr. however he didn't realize he had accidently disconnected the autopilot on a very dark night off the coast of Martha's Vineyard. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Thank you! I was today years old when I learned to NOT USE ACTIVATE VECTORS on my Garmin. Never even noticed that.
Instead of turning off the autopilot, why not go into heading mode while fixing the GPS?
@@FlyWithNoam Thanks! Great video! Always square the heading bug 😉
Sorry didn't mean thumbs down, disregard please, very courageous to post the video, we all can make mistakes and we can surely learn from others we come across and no need to be judgmental.
I fly a 421C with a GTN750, Garmin GFC600TXi PFD, and Garmin GFC 600 autopilot. After flying for say an hour on autopilot, it takes me a while to get comfortable flying manually. The GFC 600 has a 'wings/pitch level' button; I think if I wanted to reprogram the autopilot but had no reason to think the autopilot was malfunctioning and I was in IMC, I would first press the wings/pitch level button. If, however, I had any doubts about the autopilot I would press the disconnect button, and as you suggested, concentrate on flying the plane and only start sorting out the navigational settings when I was settled flying manually. All credit to Jerry for making this video available. What happened to him can happen to any of us. @@FlyWithNoam