When F1 Teams Almost Formed A ‘Super League’
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- čas přidán 21. 04. 2021
- F1 has already been down the road that football fans have been experiencing recently... here’s what happened.
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Graphics person: How much stock footage of literal interpretations of common English phrases do you want?
WTF Editor: Yes.
There are so many English words that I don't know.I wish I was surrounded by some proper English speakers. It is not easy to get better in English by only watching videos and reading articles.(my accent is good but my diction is really poor.Maybe it is because I am only 14.)
@@htk8581 keep watching videos man. you can learn a lot of vocabulary and it also improves your listening.
@@omeregekocademir3426 I think you need to call me "kid",helpful sir.I know but as long as it is not face to face it is really dificcult(improving my diction).
I was thinking WTF, bloody hurt my eyes the amount of transitions there are
@@htk8581 Your written English is better than most English people. Keep going.
The difference was that Mosleys proposal was, for lack of a better term, insane. It is feasible for a team to go from $300 million to $145 million in a year, not from $300 million to $30 million in 6 months
Mosley gave teams a proposal, which is not mandatory, teams willing to took the cap will get privileges like: infinite mileage of test, 20% cut for engine purchases, more token for development...etc.
The difference was that Mosley [...] was, for lack of a better term, insane.
FTFY
Before the pitchforks are out. If even someone like Eddie Jordan finds words of disappointment over Max Mosley, you know something is up. Also *cough* McLaren *cough*...
@@UnnamedThe the true stories of mad max mosely and the nazi sex dungeon!
@@soundlessbird9181 Ok, but if one team accepted this proposal the car would be better, forcing the 9 other teams to do the same
@@marcot9289 I don't think so at all. The problem is basically, that every million more in a car equals better performance. using exotic materials, more sophisticated technology, better computer etc. etc. If a car of 30 Mill would race against a 300 Mill I am sure it would look like a soap box in comparrison. Tests and windtunnels to the max, wouldn't propapbly do much. It would be like F1 and F2 racing against each other in one championship.
I am glad though, that they found a solution and that they are finding grounds orienting themselves at William's capabilites of investments.
lol if netflix were there they would make a whole series over this
Don’t give them ideas
And production costs would likely exceed that proposed budget cap.
Is Drive to Survive That Bad?! Haven't watched it cuz no Netflix but keep hearing non-casual F1 fans dislike it.
LITERALLY was explaining this to someone this afternoon after the fiasco on the weekend. Great video
F1 breakaway would have died a few years later had it gone through I think tbh.
Same
@@F1ll1nTh3Blanks I think the contrary is true: F1 wouldn't have been attractive to anyone, and would have re-joined the breakaway teams after a couple of years top.
@@tommasopaniccia7551 It's not the contrary. My point isn't that F1 will have outlasted it because F1 would also be dead at that point. But the breakaway wouldn't have lasted very long either because in the end things were becoming too expensive anyway and teams like BMW and Toyota ended up bowing out anyway and FOTA is nowhere now. F1 would die 1st and then the breakaway shortly after.
This is exactly what happened to N. American Indycar in 1996. 2 leagues for 9 years. It set the sport back for years
"It makes you wonder what it would look like if the super league had went on"
Cough cart indycar split cough
CART-IRL split was a result of greediness of one person who can't have his ideals accepted by majority voice. Yeah tony george argument was kinda solid such as true american driver can't compete and the rise of cost, but i really doubt CART board didn't see that problem. Don't get me wrong, CART did taking it in a stupid way tho. had they stayed race at Indy500 and destroying the competition, IRL would be force being dead instead of creating breakaway U.S 500 race
I want a show about an alternate universe version of 2021 where this 2009 split happened.
@@fiarandompenaltygeneratorm5044 tell me more
@@fiarandompenaltygeneratorm5044 tell me more
So Wolfenstein but with Formula 1?
@@UnnamedThe Is Wolfenstein the only alternate history story you've heard of? There are hundreds and have existed for centuries.
@@MentalParadox And? Am I not allowed to think of the first one that pops into my head?
Woah I'd never heard this story before
this wasn't "first time" for football fans either, every few months or years you see the news going around about forming a Super League, its just that this time it came the closest to becoming a reality
Everything I heard about the super league was still on the base of Meritocracy... not 15 teams safe for 20 years.....
The Big reason why the Super League fell was essentially the lack of Meritocracy on the League.
Yep, I wouldn't be super happy with a Super League either way, at least not run alongside with the UCL/UEL as it is but a sport has to have competition and can't be by invitation only. Same deal with the new UCL regs, with the 4 teams by invite. What a joke. At least it still remains a competition, as the other 32 teams are still done by national competition results, but it's still a joke, along with the single league format.
@@RoadRager1904 i would say 1st year by invitation to make it interesting and after that by Meritocracy.... which would mean some invited clubs would not play on the second year.....
Then it would be better than UCL (Maybe)
@@MiTraFilipesoares for me having a knockout(+group stage) tournament like champions league alongisde with the domestic league is a really good structure because league tests the consistency while champions league tests the ability of the team to perform in a one-off or two-off game in a knockout tourment, this is why i like the current system. Also one of the biggest and most thrilling part of champions is the randomness in the draw, we all know the exciting draw and not having a fixture of few seasons and they finally a particular is what makes each fixture in champions league special (the rarity of it). While in a super league you would have pretty the exact same fixture every year, even with a little bit of meritocracy it would just isnt be the same. And the idea of super league was born out of greed, champions league has got history.
As a guy who grew up watching the Indycar split. I’m so glad this never went through
The problem wasn't the split, it was when IRL finally curb-stomped CART because they couldn't tolerate someone stealing their thunder. Back in the day I'd go to or watch all the CART and IMSA races I could. Actually it was CART that got me interested in Indy cars in the first place. Never went back to Indy cars after the demise of CART. I see it's still a pathetic gimmicky shadow of what it had once been. Should have just let IRL have Indy if the IRL wanted to have a pissing contest over it, IMO. I never cared about Indy anyway.
Fuck Tony George. Also, man, CART had an addiction to just shooting itself in the foot at every corner after the split. They honestly should've shown up to Indy, qualified their 8 drivers under that 25-8 rule, and completely lapped and embarrassed the IRL field twice over. That would've made it clear just how big a joke the IRL field was, save for a few exceptions (Michele Alboreto, Tony Stewart, Robby Gordon, and that's about it).
Cart was better than IRL.
This happened in North America. Indycar split and sputtered on for years as two separate series before finally reuniting. Open wheel racing in North America has never really recovered. The Indy 500 is a shadow of its former self.
This happened before in the USA as well.
I mean, the SCCA had formula 5000, USAC also split their national championship into Dirt national trial and Asphalt national trial IE Indycar. So when you look at the 1960s, you could see Unser racing on dirt a weekend for the USAC dirt national championship, than in F5000 another weekend.
Technically that split still exist, but nobody cares about USAC Silver crown and merging that with Indycar seems... Imaginative.
And Nascar had a single seater series in the 1950s that went nowhere, but it was a bit of a bad timing. AAA was in charge before 1955, USAC after, Nascar stopped their speedway in 1953 after two seasons. But if Nascar had kept their single seater for a few more years, maybe we would have a situation where Indycar would be called Nascar... Weirdly enough
Also, pre-WW2, you had kind of a split between IMCA and AAA national championship. IMCA's reputation was more of a freak show with their "big car", but their Sprint car are kind of descendent of these days... Kind of... More complicated than that, but kind of.
Basically, it is to wonder what would have happened would have happened if AAA managed to stay in charge of all that... And had done a much much better job at racing stuff. Like if that had happened, who should anyone call for road assistance?
Last time I was so early Kimi had points this season
@Moon Boy probably none
@Moon Boy all are undeserved
No matter how many points he get he’s still an icon in f1, wouldn’t change him with anybody else. It’s the guys hobby anyways.
This aged well
In case you guys were curious, FOTA’s leaked calendar looked like this
1.7 March - Buenos Aires, Argentina (Last hosted F1 in 1998)
2.21 March - Mexico City, Mexico (Last hosted F1 in 1992)
3.11 April - Jerez, Spain (Last hosted F1 in 1997)
4.25 April - Portimao, Portugal (Never hosted F1)
5.2 May - Imola, San Marino (Last hosted F1 in 2006)
6.23 May - Monte Carlo, Monaco (Current F1 host)
7.6 June - Montreal, Canada (Last hosted F1 in 2008)
8.13 June - Indianapolis, United States (Last hosted F1 in 2007)
9.11 July - Silverstone, United Kingdom (Current F1 host)
10.25 July - Magny-Cours, France (Last hosted F1 in 2008)
11.15 August - Laustizring, Germany (Never hosted F1)
12.29 August - Helsinki, Finland (Never hosted F1)
13.12 September - Monza, Italy (Current F1 host)
14.26 September - Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates (Current F1 host)
15.10 October - Marina Bay, Singapore (Current F1 host)
16.24 October - Suzuka, Japan (Last hosted F1 in 2006)
17.7 November - Adelaide or Surfers' Paradise, Australia (Last hosted F1 in 1995/Never hosted F1)
Seeing that Finland could've hosted a grand prix if the split had happened, makes me feel disappointed it didn't happen.
Wasn't Donnington planned to be on there? I think there were rumours for ages about them updating the facilities for it but the plans never went through
@@joeogle7729 I think Donington was intended to replace Silverstone on the actual F1 calendar around the same time, but obviously that never happened.
It actually looks good.
Portimao hosted their first race in 2020 and will host the 2nd race this year, but at that time, yes, they didn't
In a universe with a break away series, it would be a Universe where Williams and Force India fought for championships and Virgin/Marussia/Manor, Lotus/Caterham and HRT survived.
The main problem was Max Mosely was the kind of person who put out fires by pouring petrol on them.
0:18 What a map! Are those the 80s?
Lmao we have yugoslavia, czechoslovakia and west/east germany on that map.
Anywhere from 1960 (independent Cyprus) to 1990 (united Germany). In this period there were no significant changes apart from Malta gaining independence in 1964 but we can't see it.
TBH i would really like a racing series that has a 30 million budget cap with very loose rules
F1 is already a super league!!! New teams have no way to enter except buying into an existing team that's gone bankrupt.
So Mosley gave up his position so that F1 can live ? If that is so - big respect
I wouldn't be too quick to praise him for that decision. There was an increasing distaste for Mosley within F1 even before all this, capped off by the News of the World splaying news about his "Nazi orgy" in March 2008 (for context, Mosley's father was part of the UK's fascist party). In June of that year, Mosley won a vote of confidence within the FIA, a vote which lead several motoring clubs associated with the FIA (ADAC and the AAA, amongst others) to consider withdrawing from the FIA altogether.
On top of this, Mosley was considering retirement before all this kicked off. The budget cap and full implimentation of the KERS system were, in his own words, his final two goals before retirement. So Mosley was likely leaving at the end of 2009 anyway, and after this FIA vs FOTA debacle, Luca di Montazemalo welcomed Mosley's removal, calling him a 'dictator'.
He was... a divisive person.... to say the least.
Honestly, the best thing that happened to Mosley was getting caught in that sex scandal, because he won the court case against News of the World for invading his privacy, which was one of the dominos to fall on the path to News of the World being shut down and regulations brought in to try and prevent journalists from invading people's privacy.
Last time I was so early, Russel didn’t know he would drive on a Mercedes
Yes, ON a Mercedes
oof
had us in the first half not gonna lie
I mean, he was kinda too tall for the car
@@orangesnipzy7488 they were referring to the crash in imola
@@orangesnipzy7488 the Williams that big then?
This rings a bell to the 1996 CART/IRL split. If the FOTA breakaway had gone through then there's no doubt in my mind that Grand Prix racing as you'd known it would die, much like Indycar back then, and it's taken over some 20 years for Indycar racing to get itself back on its feet and actually plausible post-split. Let's just hope we don't see anything like that again and enjoy what we have at the current moment, cause it's damn good.
0:03 lovely little shot of the best crowd in England
shmet barca? 3-0 down and in their heads throughout the whole game
Remember, factory teams planned their own championship before: that was Grand Prix World Championship, turning into the 2005 F1 season. Actually Ferrari pulled out and reached a special agreement with Ecclestone, and the GPWC plan collapsed as quickly as it started
What if dts was at that time, they would have shown that 2-3 races was over before they came back
Hey ! I live under a rock so i learned about the two super leagues in one go. Neat.
Max Moseley would be the only FIA president who had to spend more time in motorsport court than in races.
This sounds like how F1 started. Weren't it just the teams trying to have fun races and trying to build the fastest car?
I guess it would have been an F1 restart. It could take a few decades for it to repeat again.
2:00 from a technical standpoint i think thats an interesting concept, youll have teams that simply do not have the money but then can develop more choice areas , id say in the grand scheme it would not make them be better then the top teams spending loads on some key areas while inching them closer to that fight despite not having as much of a money option, it would make the sport more interesting to compete in for smaller partys
I'd completely forgotten about this story. One of the issues with the teams who were threatening to pull out was it included all the engine manufacturers!
F1 would have been a championship between Williams and Force India in foot powered Flintstones cars!
Ngl I was expecting the FISA vs FOCA war in the old days, but this was something I didn’t know
"The Super League" did literally happened in US. In 1977 (correct me if i wrong) several IndyCar team owner were unhappy with how the sanctioning body (USAC) handle the series. Things like tv money, audieance, pretty much what that 12 football team bemoaning about. Added to the woes that the owner of Indianapolis Motor Speedway at that time Tony Hulman passed away and unfortunate plane accident killing several USAC key member, leaving sanctioning body in jeopardy to the team owner's eye.
As a result of all of things happened, in 1978 Dan Gurney sending a mail of what we called today "White Paper" to several team owner like Roger Penske and Pat Patrick. That forms what we remember today as CART.
Like ESL, CART wasn't receive well. It received huge opposition from USAC and team Owner/Driver A.J Foyt, and CART almost made a race track went bankrupt. However, unlike ESL, CART actually succeeded in 80's. With their marketing guerillas and some of USAC stupid tactics left the governing body in jeopardy Thus the CART literally takes over the US championship.
This tok me down memory lane. I remember being excited for the breakaway series, but am really happy now that it didn't get to it in the end.
Luckily, F1 teams occasionally think about their fans.
I have never heard of this. Nice video.
If the "Super League" did happen, It would be like the GTE Pro category from the WEC...
(ignoring Le Mans) 4 cars!!
Could you imagine if Drive to Survive was going on at this time?
This story is almost literally the first Indycar split between USAC and CART in the 70s.
And yet Indycar didn't learn from it and split again in the 90s lol
When the compromise is "we wont change our rules, you accept our rules", a catastrophic standpoint for negotiations
From a fan's point of view, F1 is "The Super League"...
- Monopoly
- Immune to relegation
Saw the Proposed Calendar and would love to see some of the tracks there featured in F1 like the Finnish GP in Helsinki and the track at Germany.
Editor be smashingggg itttt
This was a good vid👍
The CART IRL split era was great, You were able to watch double the races. I was pissed of that the F1 FOTA split didn't happen. The FOTA calendar had Jerez, Surfer's Paradise and Magny-Cours.thanks alot montezimolo for ruining that...
I would love to see an sort of league like that, but with academy drivers racing f1 cars from a few years ago. Would be an good measurement for the teams concerning their drivers skills and it would make some revenue.
Indycar happened the same but they actually made two series and championships: IRL and CART
The calendar wasn’t genuine. One of the races would have been a Finnish GP on the Helsinki Street Circuit (used in F3000 in the 90s).
However the Helsinki Councils and Finnish government said they knew nothing about this and they hadn’t even been approached. Basically FOTA just made up a fictional calendar. There was never going to be a series - it was just a realistic threat in order to get the big powers around a meeting table so they could have negotiation power and it worked.
Apart from the 1981/1982 narrowly avoided FOCA/then-FISA split, between 2004 and 2005 F1 Teams and engine Manufacturers threatened to leave too, could be interesting to also cover those incidents in sort of a Part-2.
If not mistaken, the intended name for the new championship was "GP1". Glad it didn't work out in the end...
GPWC(Grand Prix World Championship) in fact. GP1 is a trademark registered by Bernie.
as always a great video from wtf1
I absolutely love that outro screen xD
Thank you, as an American who cares nothing about football, now I understand what the buzz about the super league was.
My best American sports analogy for the Super League is imagine if all the biggest and richest teams in college basketball, so Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, UCLA, etc., all got together and announced that they were no longer going to compete in the NCAA Tournament but would instead create their own national championship tournament, one in which they were guaranteed entry and they'd run it as they saw fit.
That was essentially the European Super League proposal, just replace Kansas with Real Madrid and the NCAA Tournament with the UEFA Champions League.
Formula 1 is a super league, you don't see Haas or Williams getting relegated at the end of the season. Teams buy themselves in to the league and everything pretty much favours the big teams. Don't get me wrong I enjoy F1 and Football but I was having this exact conversation with someone recently
Almost at 1 MILLION SUBS!
I think that a breakaway series would be more likely if the new regs don't work and Mercedes continue to dominate. I even made a fictional racing series called the GPX (Grand Prix Extreme) Series that would a rival series to Indycar and F1.
Everyone making comparisons to IndyCar over the CART-IRL split forget that CART itself was formed as a super league after the CART-USAC split in the 70s. Had 7 or more teams left F1 in 2010 to form their own league, and included F1's marquee race the Monaco Grand Prix, it would have been similar to the CART-USAC split rather then the CART-IRL split, as the reason USAC lost was because CART had all the drivers and teams people cared about, and while USAC sanctioned the Indianapolis 500 CART drivers all raced in it, making it effectively part of the CART calendar.
That being said, with a 30M budget cap for F1 the void would have been quickly filled and both series would probably be operating today.
FIA also proposed that year to use standardised engines I remember
@WTF1 I think that your content is amazing, and this is coming from an American, and most "motorsport fans" in America only watch NASCAR
It's funny, when the whole super league thing appeared I remembered of something like that with F1. But I thought it was A1 Grand Prix, which went through (for a short time). So I got it wrong. Thanks WTF1.
In darts, with the split between BDO and PDC, a similiar thing happened. BDO is now bankrupt, and i think the players and fans are happy with PDC at the moment. It's hard to compare, but I think something simular could happen with F1 and football.
I think your videos are very informative. But I would be willing to watch more if they had less photos and stock videos that add nothing to the content
Not only did I learn from this vid, but I had to rewind twice to make sure I was seeing “this now” lmao
NGL that budget idea is not a bad idea, bring it back but with a larger budget cap and we could see better racing and it could really help the smaller teams like Williams who we would all like to see at the podium again
I remember this but I was never aware of the reason why (nor did I know about the calender)
And back in the day (81-82 )f1 also was close to a split
Shades of the Indycar split, except that happened, and we had USAC/Indycar and CART for quite a while.
I'm not shocked the teams refused that tiny a budget cap. Sure they agreed to one now but today's cap is massive compared to what was proposed back then.
Only need to look across the pond at the US and the IndyCar split to see how it would’ve gone.
I for one would have loved to have watched super speedy automobileys from 2010 onwards
I feel F1 is basically a Super League already. Due to monetary restrictions it's wildy exclusive and the biggest teams get the most money. Money is only going through 10 racing teams in the world...seems pretty exclusive and super to me.
This is just the CART-USAC split of 1979. Same story. Teams unhappy with management/sanctioning body. Split off to make their own series.
Wasn't expecting to see Mike Conley in this video. Not disappointed.
You could call it Super Formula! Oh wait...
Well it's kinda of different from the Football Super League.
1st.
F1: FIA wanted to impose double standards for teams.
Football: the teams wanted their own league with the rules that were more convenient to them (money money money).
2nd:
F1: teams wanted equal rules for everyone (and maybe a bigger cost cap?)
Football: the biggest teams in Europe wanted more money for them.
In the end is simple, meritocracy on the F1 vs money on Football.....
The ideia is kinda the same but with very very different sides....
Still a good video from you.
Because in reality F1 was more like Super League: rich teams stay no matter how weak they are.
@@Gareth1892000 they stay if they have money.... super league teams would stay there no mayter what
If that breakaway series actually happened, F1 would end up in a situation similar to what IndyCar had to go through in the mid 90's.
Or like USAC went through in the 70s, people forget that CART was created as a breakaway super league
Lol, even F1 channels joining the ESL content train
Oh. I thought this was going to be about the 1980 breakaway attempt, the one that led to the formulation of the Concorde Agreement as part of its resolution. Interesting Times also, weren't they?
I don't understand why certain teams were so angry about literally wasting money though? It was unsustainable and it is more apparent now. Now maybe the cap was a bit low but still, a cap is needed to prevent rich teams from just buying their way to victory even though it can lead to bankruptcy or force other teams to either spend unreasonable amounts themselves or get out of the sport, which should not be the case.
There are so much unnecessary spending in sports ( almost of all them ) that the salaries/costs etc just get inflated to ridiculous, unsustainable levels.
What you would have had was the split of Indy car to CART and Indy car. Big mess for 15 years. They both almost went out of business.
what I really wonder is what it would have been like if the FIA managed to implement a reasonable, logical cost cap back then, somewhere around 100 mil or close to the current, but too everyone, rather than that split nonsense. and as someone mentioned here, history shows how a split can ruin a sport like ours, just look at the cart/irl split (indycar)
The 2009 cars just look so damn good tho
I would like to point out the very nice tribute to Jules Bianchi that some people may have overlooked. Got to 4:13 and the calendar says Jul 17. Very nice WTF1. #jul17
More freedom but less money or less freedom but more money sounds like a good concept in theory ngl...
Well, we do actually have precedent for this. Just look at CART and IndyCar in the U.S. in the 90s They split and then merged again. It was actually around the time that CART and IndyCar had merged that this whole FIA-FOTA dispute happened.
IndyCar / CART split, but with the metric system.
I had no idea this happened 🤯
Super league is basically NBA or NFL for soccer, if you treat whole Europe as one country.
Wait...is that Better Place by spring gang in the background? Not me fanboyying over them in a wtf1 video
the indy 2005 reference made me spit my drink
Wasn’t there also a sort-of IndyCar like split that almost happened in like the 70s in F1?
What is ironic is Toyota, BMW, Renault and Mclaren being against budget cap when three of them withdraw 1 year later and Mclaren need hopelessly of money nowadays, to a point of make a leaseback of his own factory.
I think Mosley was right after all...
Would have been great if we went back to a sport where the only rules were to build the fastest cars...we'd have 300mph monsters by now and it would be awesome
Idk what everyone was so worried about. CART split from Indy and that didnt work out so well
Sounds similar to the CART-USAC split...
Indycars vs Indy Racing League was a good example as well but unlike F1 , Indycars were almost destroyed
Poor comparison. The F1 league would be like the top division of one of the countries mentioned decided to break off and run the division by themselves, the threat was to remove all the top teams in europe from their national leagues - basically a eu-championship but in league form.
Don’t forget cart racing breakout as super league concept.. cart and Indy
Its hard to say if f1 would still be around (probably on a way smaller scale) if all the seven teams pulled out. I think f1 would sign new teams though if it hapened.
This was definitely WTF1
The withdrawal of the budget cap made all the teams that joined in 2010 fail
The IRL/CART split showed that a split would have been bad in the ling run. And both sides knew this. This whole exercise was simply a game of chicken to see who would blink first.
Like a Led Zeppelin* Not promoting the band whilst endorsing an opportunity should just be considered heresy.