Apple's Fastest Mac vs. My $5496 PC
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- čas přidán 28. 04. 2024
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0:00 The Fastest Mac
2:10 My nuke of a PC
2:40 First boot
3:42 Performance battle
9:24 Can you game on a Mac?
10:57 I want the Studio Display
11:52 Let him cook
12:44 Insane power draw
13:27 Should I switch?
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The “too quiet” complaint is interesting. I’ve heard that whirlpool had a similar issue when they improved the acoustics of their dishwashers. People were returning them because they didn’t think their dishes were getting as clean 😂
That's a genuinely great anecdote, but in this case I think the critique is that the Mac is capable of more but was handicapped for audio aesthetics. A great metaphor for the difference between Macs and PCs tbh.
I get that, but you probably can wash dishes very efficiently and silently, whereas when it comes to chips, you just know you could be getting better performance for some more noise, because that cooling directly translates to some more speed headroom. At least it would be cool to have the option to tune that a bit higher if that is what you'd like
I totally agree! As an acoustical engineer myself, I just thought it was interesting.
It somewhat again boiles down to the Apple "Philisophy" - let Cupertino take the decision for you - we know best, what you want...
Vs. on PC you are in control - when you are willing to invest some time to learn so you know, what you are doing. My PC is tweaked to be absolutely silent during office-workload - I have to look at the light to see if it's on. But I allow it to ramp up cooling and sound to an definately hearable level, when I need full power to get the job done faster. Could also tweak it to remain more silent by sacrificing maybe 10-20% performance under load - or get 10% more when I would accept higher noise...
@@robocobrabot So i know folks who have worked on that platform. Basically its not capped thermally in any sense, except the form factor itself which has space limitations. The bearings in the fan that are essentially very high quality and ensure no noise even when fans spin at higher RPM. you dont get that in the PC world.
When Optimum can just reach out to Apple but LMG can't 🤣
Optimum is a reviewer , Linus is a glorified qvc salesman
@@willrussI agree with you and would argue that applies to 90% of techtubers. Paul’s Hardware, Bitwit, Jayztwocents,MKBHD-all marketing
exactly@@willruss
Man if I own a multi-trillion dollars company I would want Ali to unbox my products
Pretty sure Optimum purchases everything himself.
Putting a 7800x3d instead of a 7950x is really just to make the comparison "more interesting". For production, no one would spend 5500$ without going for the fastest processor available..
facts
Gamer Boi's gonna game 😂
This.
same thing with only have 32gb of ram, it would probably only be like a couple hundred more dollars to upgrade to a full 64gb
@@pjay459850 bucks more at the moment lol
This was a great video. Showing how both machines dropped frames in that effects heavy timeline in Resolve was revealing (and also how that same clip in FCPX ran smoothly). That M2 Ultra is a beast for sure.
It also shows that 5500 and 7000 doller have the same audio processing as a 600 doller pc. Must be stupid to spend that much and not have a premium sound card. Sound is better of an upgrade then video quality. And it's much cheaper.
@@yugecrazystickthe only difference with the Mac Pro is the customizable PCI slots
@@yugecrazystickwhat M2 extreme?
Yep, interesting. Curious to see how much better the M3 Ultra will fare. But when that comes out we might have 8700X3D and 5090 to compare witth on the PC/Windows side. :)
@@metabang03 Uhhhh, what? What does sound have to do with it. Get a good audio interface and you're done.
Makes me so happy Optimum is casually reaching out to apple.. and they're like, "sure!"
I don’t know why people hate on Apple like they make genuinely good products
@@henryhallam5270 Apple can make a good product and still deserve hate, and if you don't know what the common bones to pick are with Apple then you're in a bubble.
@@henryhallam5270 It's just good ole Apple, creates a problem then sells the solution on a really greedy way, they're kinda like the Ferrari of the tech world
@@henryhallam5270 purposefully making their product a bit bad so people would upgrade to the next gen?
try updating your ios/ipados before new product launch and watch it suffer.
iphone 15 and 15 pro have usb-c but only the pro have usb 3.0, no fast charging. because the next iphone 16 pro will have fast charging instead, and the 16 will have usb 3.0, but not fast charging, lol. imagine recording pro res raw just to copy the files the same speed as the lightning cable. "the iphone gates"
And the usb 3.0 is sold separately. Noice ;)
@@prntm926 bussiness is bussiness, nobody forces you to buy these phones. I'd prefer slow steady biz oriented improvements over fast released, grounbreaking half broken products like for example first gen foldables. Im still using my iphone 13pro, while there arent many if any first gen samsung foldable users without broken screen out there.
Reminder that Blender denoising is set on OpenImageDenoise (CPU) by default, but it can be switched to Optix, which runs on the GPU andis even faster. Same thing goes for rendering itself, switching from CUDAto Optix can almost double the performance of RTX cards.
it renders almost seemless with rtx.
Nice info
Also he used a tiled rendering on the gpu, which is slower on a modern GPU
I imagine that's already on if the card is already 25x faster.
@@utubekullanicisi you have no clue of how high 40 series can soar in blender
The version of blender makes a huge difference on macOS. They just announced Metal optimization and unless you turn that on it won't be fast. Be sure you are using a metal version.
I liked this video; though the CPU's in the video are not in the same class. A closer equivalent would be the Ryzen 9 7950x 16 core (32 thread) or intel i9 13900k 24 core (8 p cores + 16 E cores, 32 threads). The M2 Ultra has 24 cores (16 P cores + 8 E cores, I believe it is 24 threads). Just to give a more fair comparison.
I looked up the numbers and the 7950x has a cinebench score of 2108, the 13900k has 2144, and that site had the M2 recorded at 1918. The M2 gets close performance at lower power and thermals is impressive. Imagine using something like this in a PC laptop?
Pricing wise, it's more realistic to compare it with a HEDT part like the 32-core 7990x. A 7950x + mid tier gpu + ram could be had for just $2000, that's barely a fair comparison to a $7000 mac.
Honestly, at $9000 you could already get a 96 core Threadripper Pro in. That would amount to roughly 6x performance at the same price for the type of work the mac is designed for.
I was thinking the same thing. Apple people always shade it. I could build a PC to smash that for $5k
Yeah that's literally what he said in the video at 4:40...
True and for those of us who know the producs well it's pretty obvious. But for people who don't, it's worth emphasising that the 7800x3D is a very efficient beast for gaming, but if your focus is video editing, both AMD and Intel offer products much better suited to that task. An Intel 14700k for example, at £420, would be a far better choice - the 14900k or Ryzen 7950x better still. You would also have a far better PC if you compromised on the form factor, didn't mind some noise and were tolerant of a high electricity bill. I can see why people might choose either the Studio or get a good builder to spec a workstation PC. My preference would be the latter, but if I used the rest of the Apple eco-system (and especially if I was used to FInal Cut Pro) I might go with Apple.
yep really useless to compare a gaming pc to a mac studio with productivity tasks. Get a better cpu then compare, the 5 k build is already like 2k wasted anyways.
Production quality, content delivery, and honesty. Never a let down on this channel.
I'm a fan of the channel, but lots of bias and misinformation in this video though :(. But maybe he truly believes he is being honest.
@@DeltaNovum As someone with both PC’s and Mac’s in my household, can you please elaborate on the perceived bias?
Nobody's stopping you from paying the Apple tax.
His channel is definitely quality over quantity. He was also way ahead of the curve on his small form factor PC case compared to Gamers Nexus. GN initially claimed the case limited the ability to have a 4090
@@DeltaNovumI mean you can’t say all that and not show any proof. You obviously are just a troll with no good input
A dedicated competetive GPU would be the next step for Apple to really impress with their Silicon. These integrated solutions are great but it's simply not cost effective to make a chip large enough to compete with two seperate ones. They probably cancelled the M2 Extreme for that reason.
"A dedicated competetive GPU would be the next step for Apple" - Intel are struggling with GPU's, so Apple has zero chance. they need to use amd/nvidia gpu's but they're too proud and their users tend to have more money than sense, which means Apple doesn't get punished for poor performance choices
I agree that Intel is struggeling, but wouldnt you say it's good that we have more companies entering the GPU market? Sounds like you'd rather have two companies run the monopoly on all GPU's. The more the better! @@BOZ_11
@@BOZ_11 If Apple did this it will of course not be comparable to what Intel is doing, it will be something you can only get in the workstation solutions like Mac Pro
@@marcusellby whatever they do it'll be lacking in performance compared with the pc space. That's always been true, it's true today, and maybe forever, since intel, AMD, Nvidia push each other in a race that apple doesn't really partake in
I mean, integrated GPUs have a significant advantage in many areas. They share unified memory, can have higher bandwidth if the memory is collocated on the silicon.
Dedicated GPUs only have the advantage of being able to be mixed & matched with the CPU for the work loaded needed and to be swapped in case of failure or upgrade needs, plus the ability for specialised cooling. Plus the ability to be MORE silicon than a single design - although chiplets can mitigate this.
These dedicated advantages are actually outweighed by the advantages for integrated. A dedicated GPU isn't the way to catch up.
Your lighting, composition, video clarity, audio and video editing are just superlative. I am going to subscribe just to see more of this fantastic production capability. I’ll start looking around your videos hoping to find something that discusses you recipe for production, Well done.
🤓🤓
🤓🤓
Putting an 8 core cpu against a 24 core cpu with an OS optimised for that very cpu is kinda flawed comparison
Isn't that the purpose and the title of this video?
So you want to test mac with windows?
@@sssss4644 Mmmm, you missed the part where the PC costs $5496! 😁 You don't buy a gaming CPU for that price, so no it's not the point at all.
@@dtrjones yeah, I’m with mac side as I also used it for work / productivity and windows for gaming
@@sssss4644my amd threadripper with 4080 will crush that mac in both gaming and productivity im a graphic designer and a video editor my self
@@sssss4644And it cost 9 k
I really like how you compare the real life scenarios of all of these tools and not just regurgitate the specs and values of the graphs like most other tech channels do. You are the GOAT tech channel in my opinion.
denoising is the biggest loss and dent on the mac ever, pc shines with denoising and 3d work
Dude is the complete package. Passionate about hardware, but actually depends on fast compute for his day job so he can “talk shop” for actual potential users of these products. Also he’s actually quite good at gaming, which is the other audience.
He only shows real world scenarios for a content creator.
It's a good comparison.
9:57 a 8k Mac has input lag for CS go, lol.
This mean the Mac commercial was a lie.
They should change it to "Mac, a machine that cost you an arm and a leg for web browsing"
You might wanna sell your 5k desktop and get a laptop instead if you h8 updating the softwares.
My $200 laptop can play Starfield on ultra settings at 1080p with a few tweaks. My video is up.
@sethglazier2877 a well-rounded content creator with appeal to differing audiences is someone that deserves more attention
To be fair, a 13700K, 13900K, Ryzen 7900, 7950X would have all been more suitable for workstation workloads, for the same or relatively little more money than the 7800X3D. Apple would probably still have the CPU efficiency lead though.
Heat, a lot of heat. I personally got 13700k but cooling was kinda pain in the ass. I went from mini to full tower cos of that. If custom loop is out of budget and/or size/silence is in priority 7800x3d makes more sense in a gaming/working mini pc.
@@VargpinM Well, get 7950x. It consumes 120W max undervolted and will crush this apple crap. I have it, I know. It scores 2200 on cinebench r24.
My i7 13700KF, with 5,5 GHz p cores and 4,4 GHz e cores scored 1797 in Cinebench 2024 while drawing 230W on average. This apple CPU is a work of art considering performance/power consumption and heat production
@@uuuaaa96Well yeah, compared to Intel, what are they on now, 10nm +++++?
@@uuuaaa96 In that case AMD's CPUs are work of art too. Well, they are :)
Can you do a comparison with an actual CPU designed more towards work stations rather than a gaming chip.
Especially with such a pricepoint to compare, he cou have used a xeon or threadripper instead...
@@erlm595 not even just a 7950x or something like this which would easily fit within that budget.
@@jlee936013900k… they cost pretty much the same, around 500 dollars but the i9 is faster and has more cores.
Yup, this video is basically pointless
@@jlee9360 yeah throughout the whole video i was thinking "what a shame he didnt have a top cpu, either a 13900ks or 7950x3d, would have made this video more interesting comparing top to top, and not top to near top... but yeah, had he gone for one of those or even a workstation cpu, then the pc woul've performed even a lot better
Would be great if you could publish a full build list for your PC. I have been looking for something similar and it's kinda tough to piece together a small PC with a 4090.
He has a 3 part build series on it
It would have been nice to see you swap out the CPU on the PC to one more production minded like the studio is focused on (like the 7950x) which isn't much more expensive these days than a 7800x3d
or an i9 13900k
For 5.500$ there needs to be a 7950X3D with minimum of 64GB RAM and Look than, specially if you use Linux instad of Windows.
Or a xeon/threadripper
Agreed, this is not really an apples to apples comparison when using a PC chip specifically designed for 3d gaming vs one designed for exactly the tests he is performing.
@@Robert-jl6mhThat’s what I built a few months ago… 7950x3D… 64GB 6000mhz CL30 with a 4090… and 32TB (yes 32) SSD space. A dream machine. 👍
I have a T1 with a 4090 as well and wouldn't ever change that out for a Mac Studio due to the lackluster 3D rendering and gaming performances. However, I also do completely agree it's so worth mentioning just how small this computer is and how well it performs completely out of the box. I have spent so many hours in total planning, buying individual parts, building, optimizing the build and software on my Windows. Now it's awesome, but you just gotta have the interest as well to do all that.
pre-built brother
The 3D rendering and gaming performance on Macs is going to get a huge over haul with the new 3 nm silicon.
So it'll be interesting to compare things once the M3 line come out.
I'm particularly interested to see what the AMD response will be, and if they'll fire back with some monster APU's in 2025
You can buy a fully-kitted out pre-built for probably half the price of the Mac.
@@Linux_Fan_Boi_76 intel/amd/nvidia have always been faster than apple. tomorrow won't be any different
@@BOZ_11 Good luck finding a pre-built T1 with a 4090 lmao
Best 'high quality' channel on YT, thank you for your vidoes, it is always very enjoyable to watch!
If you could cram that much into this box, can't wait to see what you can do with NR200P MAX + watercooled CPU and GPU 👍👍👍
Great video, not sure you’ll see this but I would like to suggest something to improve your videos!
When placing comparison graphs between the two machines, you should put in parentheses if values of higher or lower are better.
For example:
Custom built computer vs Mac render speeds (lower number is better)
[enter values here]
Just a note, as some novices may not understand that it’s better to have a smaller or larger lead for it to be better (you’d be surprised how common it is😂)
Anyways, love the video nonetheless!
Just a suggestion for next video with charts, you can have text under chart(Higher is better or Lower is better) because when switching from performance scores to time it could be confusing, also it's much easier than looking for a chart unit and then thinking should it be higher or lower...
But, is the new cinebench GPU benchmark 100% optmized for Apple Silicon, Metal 3, and with Native ARM support. Cause I know the Mac Studio’s GPU is not 4 times slower than the RTX 4090, at least not in the Geekbench GPU test. And multiple games have had issues detecting the ultra fusion connector that combines the 2 Max chips that make up the Ultra chip, and I’m sure that making an M3 Extreme chip, fusing 2 ultra chips, would best the 4090, and maybe even the upcoming 5090… And, Blender doesn’t have full Mac support yet, why the results were so bad. Please for the future read up on this stuff, to make it a fair comparison. And lastly, I don’t care if the fastest PC is faster, cause the Mac is so much more efficient, with performance per watt being unmatched, and that’s what it takes to save our planet, replacing all x86 chips with passively cooled ARM chips. And you can just download a 3rd party tool to max out the fans for additional performance, even though the Mac Studio M2 Ultra doesn’t throttle, at all.
@@ncard00Dawg he said that it'd be less confusing to have a "lower/higher is better" text, nothing more 💀
@@ncard00 you're delusional if you think that using more efficient CPUs on desktops will "save the planet". Especially with renewable energy becoming more prevalent. You certainly have bought into Apple's "green" marketing on that one.
The CPU mismatch is a bit frustrating here because 7800X3D is not really a workstation CPU. As you said, a top tier productivity CPU would still match or beat the M2.
The powerdraw would be worse though, as the X3Ds are limited to around 105w, where as the others go to 170w. Performance pr watt is higher though, and he COULD get a 7950X3D which is 120w.
The price of a productivity CPU and loadout would also put the PC in a similar price range. For example, that Mac had 192GB of ram. And it's not normal memory. The M2 memory runs at 400GB/s. The only place you'll see that bandwidth for a PC is on L3 cache.
My 7700x did 120 single core 1143 all core. PPT maxed out at 85 Watt. Good enough. I love Macs but I have a bunch of other expenses.
it certainly is a CPU mismatch in terms of product category, but not necessarily in terms of footprint - which i think was the point of the video - workstation class X86-64 CPUs would (i think) require more cooling than that packaging can provide, and even with the smaller CPU it needs liquid to cool
It's mostly about matching with form factor and how close you can get a PC that is the size and power of the Studio me thinks.
imagine your pc costs $5500 with a 7800x3d.
I mean ITX parts are expensive. Everything was custom built, I think some parts were even 3D printed. But I think the main reason was to give the Mac Studio a chance. The Studio has no way of beating any good Mini ITX PC
@@RobloxianX I don't think it should be a handicapped build just to give a the studio a chance to compete.
CZcamsrs when a 8k dolars Mac exports a video 5% quicker than a 3k dolars pc 😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲
It is interesting that you use a 7800x3d. That is an amazing gaming CPU nut not the best for productivity.
Yep.
Cinebench 2024 results for my 7950x3D/4090/64GB 6000mhz CL 30 system.
Single core = 117
Multi core = 2027
GPU = 34152
Virtually no difference in the single core and GPU scores when compared to the 7800x3D/4090 system in this video... but the 7800x3D is blown away in the multi core score which is exactly why I didn't buy it. Great for gamers... not so much when you want a CPU that can do both gaming and workstation tasks.
The main historical issue with Mac workstations is that they release hardware that's expensive, but performance competitive at launch. But then Apple doesn't upgrade the machine for 3-7 years, while somehow also trying to maintain the same eye-bleed pricing. However, remember that threadripper builds absolutely exist at this price point, and that new threadrippers + Ryzens are due out end of this year or early 2024.
Certainly fair, but the fact they're no longer dependent on third party CPU/GPU suppliers seems to have sped up their hardware refresh cycle quite a bit.
The nice thing is they appear to now be on an annual upgrade cycle.
I do think for price the Max is the sweet spot not the Ultra.
The Apple silicon macs are getting updated every 1 or 2 years
Except Apple updates the machines on a yearly basis.
The issue is that Apple has been historically hamstrung by their partners, first Motorola, then IBM, and then Intel. Intel's multiple year delays for Haswell had to be the last straw for Apple. Now that they're developing all of their hardware in house they can have a regular and predictable cadence of hardware that is specifically tailored to their needs (power efficiency, media application performance)
great content. I can see you put alot of effort in this video. Love it thank you.
Great video, thanks. I would have been surprised if either machine was the best at anything- kinda hoped your machine woulda crushed across the board (apart from power usage). My old 2012 Mac Mini would spin the fan up under load, guess they're targeting a more fragile audience. My M1 Mini is always silent.
I remember many Mac products used to thermal throttle for the sake of silence I guess (and form factor?).... At least they have a low power cpu's now that can run silent under full stress :)
@@akse What are you talking about? All Intel Macs I have come across are just as noisy as their PC counterparts. If by 'many Mac products' you are referring to laptops, it's normal that they throttle.
Very well articulated. I use both tools and think you nailed the comparison.
Its a good day when i see optimum has posted
agreed
For the blender test, I’m not saying the Mac would have come anywhere near that 4090 but there are many optimisations now for blender on Mac that may have closed down the gap. Just wondering if you maybe didn’t enable them
No matter how many optimizations are done on any MAC, it'll never come close to touching that 4090GPU at all. Remember, a dedicated GPU is hard to beat.
@@williamcopeland2617 I agree with you. As I said in my original comment “not saying the mac would have come anywhere near that 4090…” but optimisations do make a big difference when comparing it to itself before and after
Wait until the M3 Ultra. Also it really depends on your workload. Some workloads are specifically optimized more so then others.
Really great video, would love to see more of these comparisons in the future!
I just think it’s awesome how the Mac can do this with using very little power
For a desktop computer, power usage means very little. Expandability, and a huge software base give Windows the advantage.
When apple switched there desktop cpus to the m1 they got tsmc to give them the way newer shit so there at 3nm and everyone else is at 5 ot 7nm even 10 in some cases, but, it caused all the competition to start making there own manufacturing plants.
@@justinpatty1954 The competition cannot 'make' their own manufacturing plants. Everything is made by TSMC, or Samsung, or Global.
M1 and M2 are quite impressive, when you consider they are basically just fast chips that come from a *cell* *phone* . Too bad that native software, and especially games, are very very limited on Apple Silicon.
@@DerekDavis213 You would change your mind about electricity consumption if you lived in a country like Germany. If I had both devices idling 24/7, that makes a difference of $280 per year in my electric bill.
@@DerekDavis213power usage still matters if you need vast computing power, so efficiency is still very important
What’s crazy is that the RTX 4090 gets almost triple the performance per watt with under clocking.
from where did you get that info lmao?? yk that a rtx 4090 pulls almost 1000 watts and m2 ultra 35 right? literally makes no sense even if you d underclock the rtx 4090 to a max of 500 watts
@@doomfistXD from the video lmfao roflcopter lololol111!!! yk that at 13:15 he shows the performance per watt of Optimums 4090, which is underclocked, vs the M2, which is hitting 110 watts... So your entire comment is drivel.
@@peterdolkens669 its still isnt 3x the performance
108 Vs 337 for cinebench GPU test.
Sorry about your maths test bro 😔
@@peter.dolkens with 3x+ the power usage from the rtx 4090...
Surprisingly well lit and well shot. Very friendly and warm vibe.
Honesty. Something you can’t find in the mainstream. So glad this channel is doing well
It counts for a lot these days!
denoising is the biggest loss and dent on the mac ever, pc shines with denoising and 3d work
The title is literally clickbait lol
Production quality and editing is insane bro.
Apple hardware is admirable in terms of energy efficiency but their performance is lackluster especially taking into consideration that you can build or buy a prebuild pc for nearly half the price with better performance.
awesome editing, and finally a non-biased review. One critic: there's not enough videos like this on youtube
It's a little sad that we're suprised that 7000$ apple product beats a custom 5500$ build in SOME areas
+250$ and we will have ryzen 7950x or 13900k
Apple never chances...
@@klim6361or even a 7950X3D if you're willing to spend a little more
I mean to be fair the 4TB Storage in the Mac Studio is super expensive but doesn't play a huge role in performance so.. you can cut 2 grand here
not really because you’re also buying that small form factor which is obviously not easy to engineer which stays cool and absolutely silent all the time. It’s almost always not ideal to only take into consideration price and performance
Apple you are paying for branding and limited product usage
your videos are getting better and better, I love the production quality and the soft-toned voice, keep up the good work!
Loved your video! Wondering why I hadn’t seen your channel before!
by far my favourite tech channel keep doing you
Do your energy comparisons also include the additional power drawn by the cooling system? Or is this simply a comparison of the watts drawn by the chip sets?
A 7800x3D is not a workstation cpu, I’d probably have gone for something with more cores like a 7950x or 13900k at least for the comparison. Plus there’s monsters like the Threadrippers which would be in the same price class as the Mac.
Cinebench 2024 results for my 7950x3D/4090/64GB 6000mhz CL 30 system.
Single core = 117
Multi core = 2027
GPU = 34152
Virtually no difference in the single core and GPU scores when compared to the 7800x3D/4090 system in this video... but the 7800x3D is blown away in the multi core score which is exactly why I didn't buy it. Great for gamers... not so much when you want a CPU that can do both gaming and workstation tasks.
A couple of things. Was all the software optimized for the new silicon chips? And two, No need for more fan noise, The chips just never heat up enough to use them that much. Run something like maxfans to find out. So, more fan and cooling probably wouldn't make much of a difference. I'm not a heave hitter but no matter what I do I can't get the heat or fan speed to get more than about 10% off idle. That's the way it is with 4nm total integration.
Nice video. Just want to point out a few things that come to mind. Firstly, I really like the aesthetics of Apple hardware. However, that is mostly what you are paying the premium for, that and their proprietary software.
1. Graphics: It seems from this video a 4060 or even a 3060 would out perform this in many graphics oriented tasks. I believe that alone would drop your custom build by well over $1000. Prices change so much, but if you spent $2500 on that card, the x060's are $250-500. So maybe even $2k.
2. Software I: Much of what you point to that you enjoy is software, which doesn't say it's without merit, but like you, I don't want to learn and be married to their software.
3. Sound. Well designed PCs can be silent even with all but maxed out loads (GPU is a separate concern for noise here).
4. Upgradablility. Mac:"What is that". With a PC, you can make a well spec'd PC live for 7-8 years now with GPU and memory upgrades.
5. Software II: With Apple taking up ARM architecture processors, it's a risk to the consumer that mainstream x86 software may never become available to run natively. So, while the game you played made an effort with a translation layer, you see what that actually means. Very poor performance. Fewer companies than previously supported MACOS will support it going forward without an industry wide shift to ARM.
Side note: Since Apple makes software too, they don't mind as much as long as they keep enough of their loyal base consumers.
In short, it seems that you could build a similar performance PC for $2-3k. That's an awfully hefty premium, even for Apple, to be able to get in on software with minor conveniences. Especially given how much software it locks you out of, and with ARM, that list is even larger.
On the fans not spinning up - there are extensions/apps for manual fan control that let you spin them up, and surprise surprise the performance improves when rendering/compiling/whatever
Instructions unclear: mac flew into the ceiling and crashed somewhere 20 miles away: Steve Jobs ghost haunts me telling me fans are bad
The part about the pc not being plug and play is only really a thing if you build your own. Typically any off the shelf OEM pc just plugs in, turns on and goes, every laptop for example. Mac is better off the shelf like that for sure but HP, Dell and I may show my age with this next one but gateway even came plug and play back in the day. It did come in many many boxes tho lol.
Exactly, you don't have to build a PC, you have the option to build it... Most people buy prebuilt systems or laptops, not all users are computer enthusiasts or tech savvy.
Not to mention that there are many third party companies, both small local shops and larger internet order companies, that will build you a custom PC for your use case and tweak the overclocking so you have all of the benefits of a custom build, but with the exact same plug and play factors. A good PC builder will even prep your windows install and install all the software you request for you.
This is a great video! And it's so frustrating to get people commenting on "my mac runs 60fps on fortnite / minecraft". I have a gaming PC at home and I use a m1 air for work or working outside and I'm really happy with it.
one thing you forgot to mention is that it is impossible to repair Mac (or upgrade it) in a meaningful/significant way .
That’s because they rarely break
@@datasleek7950 lmao sure buddy
@@datasleek7950lmao everything will break in due time. But apple products break faster than most.
@@carontorliak2760 And you say this based on what? I work for Hulu. 75% of the Developer use Mac. The support team is just 10 people for 100s of employees. They spend more time fixing Windows than Mac.
I'm sorry but you are wrong.
@@datasleek7950 by break i don't mean literally stop working at all (though I wouldn't be surpised if that was also true), I mean you can't use a 10 year old apple pc the same way you can use a 10 year old windows pc of same similar spec/price. With a high end workstation pc you can upgrade almost endlessly whereas you can't even easily repair a mac, let alone upgrade it as the op said. That with apple's mission of planned obsolescence basically makes you get a new mac just because it doesn't work properly anymore due to outdated macOS. I am sorry but your anecdote proves nothing.
Great cinematic feel, love the vids
A good video as always, and an interesting comparison, but seemed to shift frequently between "mac vs PC" and "this mac vs this PC".
You've gone from my favorite keyboard guy, to one of the top tech reviewers, in my opinion.
there are mac studios with the same cpu and a pcie x16 bus but with this integraded graphics it isnt a fair battle
As someone who uses both of these every day you nailed the use cases for both.
Videos like this one tend to overlook one tiny little detail.
You can't upgrade a Mac. Macs, especially those with ARM processors, have hardware that is completely nailed down. So, for example, if you want to replace/expand the RAM or memory, you usually have no choice but to buy a new device.
4:40 them forearms though
Optimum Forearms
Would be interesting to see if the neural engine updates in Resolve 18.6 have changed these numbers.
Another great presentation and that build is asethetic. I think most would be interested in the Studio Display had it a higher refresh rate.
If you're recording vocals with a condenser microphone, the silence is godsend. They used to make sound reducing computer cabinets to store noisy PC in studios!
Yep! jusy ordered an M2 Max for our studio replacing an older Mac Pro that lives in a closet out int he hall for that very reason. I'm hoping I can bring it into the control room with no more walking out to do something with the box.
"I was expecting my custom PC to absolutely dominate the Mac Studio in this test case (GPU Performance)... and... It does."
Haha... that deadpan delivery made me laugh so hard. This is a great showcase though. And it does show the convenience of opening a little box thats essentially ready to go performance from Apple. We use them at work and they are very effective tools. Still... if you have the knowhow to build a custom PC... and especially if you play games, there's nothing else for it.
You never fail to deliver. Great video
Really well-done! I appreciate comparing the power draw to the performance, because that seems to be something that other reviewers overlook. I also appreciate your acknowledgement that these machines are built to do different things. Neither PC nor Mac should be considered the "end-all-be-all" for every application.
While I think he’s incorrect about his conclusion about pc hardware being slower (just his processor), you are correct, Apple’s hardware is ahead on power consumption. But that is a low priority for commercial tools.
@@thefryinallofus Fair enough. At the same time, a lot of these machines aren't necessarily meant for truly corporate/commercial use. They're still for much smaller business that do care about energy use and power consumption, I would imagine. It may not seem like much, but over time, there could be a drastic difference in energy usage and cost.
@@tylerberg8686 So to compensate GPU weakness, you buy a second overpriced device ? Not sure small companies can afford 20 k devices to save on 20-50$ energy a year.
its pretty much the only thing reviewers of apple products talk about. which is fine on a tablet or phone(even there it doesnt matter much, cause they pair it with a smaller battery). The only place i can see it matter is on their laptop, but they also pair it with a smaller battery instead of crushing the competition(the macbook air M2 battery is the same size as my android phone).
"Neither PC nor Mac should be considered the "end-all-be-all" for every application." They are tools, both with strengths and weaknesses, but as a former PC user I can tell you PC people are far less willing to try Macs than the other way around.
Honestly, that is a comparison between a $3500 PC and $7000 mac. That is not even a fair comparison. If there is anyone willing to pay $3500 for that 'apple experience,' that person must be super-rich and do not know where to spend all his money. I want to see a $7000 PC workstation vs. a mac studio on tasks like 3d physical simulation (if there is a proper software for such tasks for mac) rather than video editing, which relies heavily on 2D acceleration anyway.
I mean, $7000 PCs are built for such tasks anyway, so what is the point of bringing a PC with $3500 specs and comparing it with $7000 mac on video editing? From a professional standpoint, unless a $7000 mac performs at least 2x better than a $3500 PC, it is already a failure. It is a $7000 decor object with performance comparable to $3500 work PC. For absolute majority, absolutely overpriced.
As a 3D CG artist, I would never use a mac at that price point. With $7000, I can get a much more powerful, pre-built workstation with water cooling and still have some more for my customized keyboard and mouse. For monitors, I would trust EIZO more than anything apple. Whatever mac's M series does, Nvidia will simply blow away, and these days, GPUs do more work than CPUs for CG.
What is the point of using Maxon's software for benchmarking? When was the last time Maxon's Cinema4D was used in high-end VFX or simulation? Do Arnold rendering in Maya instead. For games, a mac would be a waste of money. Run Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty on that $3500 PC, and you will know what I mean. Mac is a very limited and inflexible platform in all aspects 3D, and that makes it an inadequate tool for serious VFX, simulation, and engineering.
Serious professional 3D artists care more for performance rather than PC case size or power consumption. On a slower computer, it takes longer to produce 3D works and thus consumes more time and energy anyway. Moreover, the studios and companies that hire these artists do not care about some 'experience.'
That 'apple experience' still seems inefficient to many 3D CG artists and film VFX professionals. Professionals need to get their work done fast and fine rather than enjoy some tailored 'experience.' In that regard, Apple, which charges half the full cost of its machine just for that 'experience,' still is failing to produce anything worthy to be called 'pro' or 'studio' for serious CG artists.
So many CZcamsrs think video editing is really high-end CG and it is everything there can be, but the reality is simply not so.
$4 grand for a Mac Studio pro vs an equivalent PC with a 4090 RTX is ridiculously embarrassing for Apple.
They're still far behind in terms of GPU
Okay but find it in that small form factor and at that level of power draw
@@basantatamang2249 not just that... how do they justify the Ryzen 8 core ,tacked their "24core" Mac Studio......do you know what case is in his solution?
@@KeenanCrow Small form factor is NOT a worthy argument when comparing (essentially) workstations though...
@@HenrySomeone why? If I don’t have space for a full tower it’s gonna be a consideration.
This video is absolutely minty clean. Great shots and lighting.
Good on you to test very specific aspects of the workflow, since the head to heads only just mention export time... but it's clear from this that there are other aspects that can influence performance a lot and would probably frustrate people more
I mean when you're exporting is anyway time for a break probably, so even if it takes a little longer while you go get a drink who cares
Love his compact pc but it is more for gaming. I wish I could see a comparison with an equal amount of RAM and a Ryzen 7950x or Intel 13900k/s (which actually performs better for creative work). Tech Notice is so far the only channel that has done equal comparisons.
Apple’s customer service is bar none and the efficiency of completely proprietary hardware/software runs amazing with less hiccups. But I don’t mind learning tech stuff and troubleshooting to get a pc running if it performs better in video editing for less money and loads of customization options. Thus, would enjoy seeing par on par comparisons
Apple Customer Service is a joke.. they delete post to forums if you make a public complaint. They refuse to upgrade older hardware.. instead they force you to buy new. Just watch any Louis Rossmann video for proof on that. Hell half the time they refuse to fix newer hardware or they charge you to replace an entire motherboard just for a faulty video cable. I haven't had a bad support experience from a PC builder since I owned a Gateway back in 98. You want Great Customer Service buy a PC from MicroCenter. They fix their own stuff and others.. including Macs.
High quality video. Better than most tech channels out there!
Tech channels in India don't know what really RTX card is or what is Threadripper. They just see which pc boosts faster and opens app faster
Apple just announced AAA games and RT on iPhone 15 Pro which is not something I was expecting. This looks like it will be the decade of portable actual, not the usual mobile, gaming.
And with porting toolkit Im acutally hopeful in 3-4 years there will be legit gaming on Mac. That's the single reason I don't switch back.
@@Adam-vx6to I can imagine that but it will only be cost effective if you already own a very fast Mac for work.
@@Dionyzos if developers actually release games natively on Mac then they should be playable on most of the entry level chips
mobile gaming lmao
@@ThunderingRoar did you see the presentation today?
I suppose if you have a pure-Apple workflow (ProRes footage), this thing would be a beast. I'm sure the CZcams performance is in part because of the hardware support for H.264 and HEVC. Even Intel QuickSync works well because it is hardware-based encoding. I saw Apple now has AV1 support in their latest iPhone chip, which I'm sure will make its way into M3 at some point. When that happens, I may grab an small army of MacMinis.
Very objective and unbiased video. I liked it a lot. Thanks!
From what they are doing not the iPhone 15 pro, it seems that Apple might finally go the ray tracing route for the GPU. Right now, one of the main reason RTXs trash Apple M series is mostly because they can offload a large portion of the rendering to the ray tracing cores, while the Macs still have to calculate everything within the regular GPU cores, making it so much slower.
That, and maybe finally some more software support, and we could potentially see the gap between Mac and windows getting smaller even in gaming, at least when talking about mid range stuff (I don’t expect something that consume less than 200W total performing as well as a system with a RTX 4090 that alone consume 3-4 times more power than the entire Mac system, ray tracing or not
something that I wonder about, which may make for an interesting video, is the differences between something like a Macbook and an equivalently priced PC for editing and all that.
I still have a problem with the performance of these mac chips when you get into scenario that is not supported by their coprocessors. Like for instance, try h265 software encoding or AV1. The performance there is really disappointing and not very much usable.
Maybe that will come with M3 ? Just saying because they just added AV1 decoding to the A17 chip on iphone 15 pro.
Have you done h265 on video toolbox? I thought that was one of Apple’s hardware encoders.
@@retrofizz727this, plus hardware accelerated RT (which is already decent on M1/2 chips if implemented correctly)
I recently did H.265 software encoding tests with my older M1 Max and Handbrake, it was only a minute slower with the exact same settings vs my Ryzen 5 5600X (with only 35% of the power draw, no less), so I’m not sure one can say it’s unreasonable performance with software encoding. It’s certainly far more efficient.
H.265/HEVC is supported, there’s encode/decode hardware on the chip. Been very fast in my experience.
They added an AV1 processor to the A17, so i suppose that will also get added to new M chips.
My Scar18 Laptop gets 2133 points in the Cinebench SingleCore (13980hx) and around 32k multi. But I'm not using the new Cinebench that has a GPU test. Maybe that changes the score results? I don't know.
Ps.: Love the compact PC build. As a content creator for many years I prefer my built-in screen and keyboard, etc. But I was always fascinated by those Mikro-PC builds, too.
Lots of good points in the video. The perspective though comes from that of someone who is self employed or maybe small business. Deployability was not brought up much. A little in the beginning of the video. My pov, as an IT professional, is that for a media team or etc, is that the Mac is easily deployed especially in mass and is controllable. A custom windows build can get complicated quickly and can have very little support if something goes wrong.
apple have support for their products? i thought they just make you buy a new one and chuck the other one in a bin, unless you have warrant or whatever and you dont have to pay full price
Idk how you managed to improve on your already great cinematography but that intro was on par with Apple's marketing
7800x3d is just not a workload cpu, its a gaming cpu.
its a cpu with extra cache. That's it.
@@christopherfortineux6937 it has worse clock speeds than the 7700x so its slower in workstation stuff its only really beneficial in gaming and some games are worse than the non x3d versions mostly very very cpu intensive games (mine craft and csgo are 2 big ones )
its still a top tier workload CPU, just because they added extra cache on the x3d to advertise it for gamers, doesn't make it any less of a high end CPU
Apple probably letting him keep it for not comparing it to a 13900 😂
@@nicholasjacobs3862 Yep... I wanted a gaming CPU that can also do workstation tasks. Cinebench 2024 results for my 7950x3D/4090/64GB 6000mhz CL 30 system.
Single core = 117
Multi core = 2027
GPU = 34152
Virtually no difference in the single core and GPU scores when compared to the 7800x3D/4090 system in this video... but the 7800x3D is blown away in the multi core score which is exactly why I didn't buy it. Great for gamers... not so much when you want a CPU that can do both gaming and workstation tasks.
Curious to see this test done again with the M3 Max with the highest spec & Game Mode on MacOS Sonoma! Really curious if Apple will ever be able to beat a dedicated GPU with their 3nm architecture as that would be a huge feat in computing technology. Is it possible or will Apple have to start developing their own dedicated GPUs? Will it even be possible to add on to the AIO form factors or only the new Mac Pro (which weirdly has PCI-e slots but can't use dedicated GPUs)
Sonoma's "Game Mode" is made to fix all the problems you mentioned. Game Mode optimizes your gaming experience by giving your game the highest priority access to your CPU and GPU, lowering usage for background tasks. And it doubles the Bluetooth sampling rate, which reduces input latency and audio latency for wireless accessories like game controllers and AirPods.
Obv real life performance is complicated by implementation details and optimization dark magicks, but raw performance is easy to compare.
m2 ultra's iGPU does 27.2 TFLOPS. That's somewhere rtx 4060ti's 22 and 4070's 29. That's already well within the land of dedicated GPU. Ofc I assume that's probably not what you mean.
An rtx 4090 sits at 83 TFLOPS. At 30% improvement a generation that's still 4-5 generations away, but I assume that's not what you mean either.
Then there's the bonus stuff. Apple has more cohesive hardware package with finite variations, but nvidia has dlss and more market share to incentivize optimizing for etc.
Things like having higher process priority or improving performance of bluetooth peripherals might help for single player games, but I don't think it'll make a difference for people paying FPS games with 20g mice on 500hz monitors.
So like, it's there, just not up there?
It already does. When you use GeForce Now with the Premium Subscription..
The gaming performance of Macs is fairly irrelevant really, they'll never take the gaming market away from PC because gamers want to be able to build their own machines, customize them and upgrade individual components over time; all things that Apple will never let them do.
Also there's the key issue in every Mac v PC comparison: price! Yes, if Apple made a Mac optimized for gaming it could compete with the lower level Nvidia and AMD GPU's, but it will ALWAYS be possible to get the same performance in a PC for significantly less money.
I'm guessing this is why Apple have left the gaming market well alone (outside of mobile of course), because everything gamers want is everything Apple is most opposed to.
@@wb2463 Nothing you posted had anything too do with subject. Not even close.
As for Apple and Gaming. The only valid reason you posted was custom built cases. As most people want something that just works. Without having to spend all their time babysitting the Windows OS..As the only reason Windows exist. Is it's the most bootlegged OS on the Planet.
@@WizzRacing Sorry you felt that way, but I thought it did have to with the subject as the OP talked about gaming performance - in the 2nd half of their comment particularly - and I was trying to pointout some of the reasons why Apple won't really focus on that side of computing and so it's unlikely their Macs will outperform the top dedicated GPUs any time soon.
Also what do you mean custom cases are the only reason gamers choose PC? For starters it's the ability to mix and match the actual components that gamers want most out of a PC, not having a custom case. Secondly the versatility of PC is just better suited to the gaming market than Mac; you don't even have to run Windows, I know a lot of guys who game on Linux systems. Plus Windows will let you run any game that anybody creates without worrying about quality control to protect the brand image, which has is another thing that PC gamers value bevause there's a big gaming community around d trying out random obscure game demos and unstable early access games and so on, and that's Apple would be unlikely to embrace.
And frankly anyone who want to game but wants "something that just works" will probably buy a console anyway, because you get a game-focused "plug and play" system with no worries about choosing components or OS but it's also very affordable.
I think this is the most interesting result - the computers have different strengths and beat the other by a long shot at the tasks they are good at.
which is why ASICs are so good at mining... they are optimized to do one thing.. and do it really.. really fast!
Given your track record, I hope you can make a fairer comparison in the future. Maybe a 7950x3-d, 7950x or 13900k.
An 8 core chip with 3-d v-cache going against the m2 ultra is quite unfair.
But that pulls even more watts from that wall equaling more wasted energy….
Apple is going to dominate the market, sorry.
@@christophervanzetta bruh 7800x3d is gaming only its just not meant for single or multicore performance
@@christophervanzetta with the price difference between this M2 and an equally performing 7950 built you can pay your electricity for 3 years.
Cinebench 2024 results for my 7950x3D/4090/64GB 6000mhz CL 30 system.
Single core = 117
Multi core = 2027
GPU = 34152
Virtually no difference in the single core and GPU scores when compared to the 7800x3D/4090 system in this video... but the 7800x3D is blown away in the multi core score which is exactly why I didn't buy it. Great for gamers... not so much when you want a CPU that can do both gaming and workstation tasks.
@@rishavkumar7133 Yep... just posted my 7950x3D results in my comment above this one.
Even though the stuff you use is way out of most people's pricing, I really love how you're able to bring everything back and keep things to real-world, multi-use cases, even for people on smaller budgets.
I mean his cpu is like 400usd
@@casualmime2792 Believe it or not, this is outside of the range of most PC buyers. That's still high-end, even if it's not a flagship like the 13900K. Things like the 13900K and 7950X are halo products. I only bought mine because I want uncompromised performance.
Mad respect to Apple for building a plug and play render machine. I love building and tinkering with PCs, but theres something satisfying about buying it ready to go. Its like building a track car vs buying soemthing ready-built from the factory. Both have their purposes.
Not many PC guys can do a comparison like this fairly, but it seems you were very, very fair. Good job....
That PC and workflow could really do with a 7950x.
The 7950x and 7950x3D isn't great for gaming. The best chip for everything, gaming, compute, rendering is the i9-13900k.
@@__aceofspadesMost delusional comment in this video.
Would it? Does GPU rendering in DaVinci use the CPU much?
@@flow221 the CPU is clocked higher
@@__aceofspades You're saying "not that great" as if the difference isn't 15% at most, and conveniently ignoring the power draw of the 13900K.
Another great video dude. I have a small suggestion for you to consider - include a small "Less is better" or "Higher is better", or something to that effect when showing results. It could be confusing for certain viewers who are not well-versed in testing results. For example @9:20 when "less is better" is the case, but the viewer is shown a big glowing purple bar with a larger number, they may just take it at face value that because the glowing bar is larger it is the better result of the two. It's only a small/insignificant nit-pick, but I felt it was worth making a suggestion for. 🖤
for real. a lot of the graphs are misleading.
all require a full restart for each individual windows update? Manually set the memory timing? You could just buy a prebuilt PC too. Sounds like somebody updated their Apple BIAS updated for them too.
Can you do these same tests in After Effects? Maybe some 4K compositions ?
7950X3d and RTX 4060TI as a balanced cost machine would be interesting in comparison. GPU memory could be a drawback for some cases though.
@@RiyadhcraftWhy? Most of the tests in the video were CPU-bound.
Your videos are always beautifully framed, perfectly lit and most of all, uncluttered and clean.
I was worried when you put the 7800X3D known for its middling non-gaming performance against a new mac studio, but the 4090 clutch was appreciated.
@2:24 wait did you say 32GB of RAM 🤔 lol
Congrats on making Apple connections! No small feat for content creators.
This is a high quality youtube channel.
That hell of setting up a of for the FIRST TIME feels like heaven though
did you also used the 4090 for rendering the scene in davinci resolve?
Very nice to see that apple is actually interfacing with youtubers such as yourself and it should be high praise that they've selected you over so many other people. It's well deserved.
yeah the last thing I would've expected was for them to send it to optimum even if his videos are as pristine as their brand image
High praise why? Apple says no to bigger channels that hold them accountable so what is the bar you think applies here? Cause I think it's obvious.
@@opx4real High praise in that even if you call apple out on their complete douchebaggery they will not touch 99% of youtubers with a ten foot pole due to how uninspired and lackluster their output is as tech channels. Optimum is clearly in the top 10%. And as a non apple reviewer usually there has not been much opportunity to make any sort of commentary on them in the first place.
@@ImPDK Absolutely, his channel has mostly nothing to do with apple products. His videos surpass apples presentations. They have really taken a nose dive since steve left.
Agreed good on them.