Why The Venator Class Star Destroyer Was Retired So Soon
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 02. 2024
- The Venator Class Star Destroyer was superior to the Imperial Class Star Destroyer in many ways, it wasn't even an antiquated platform having been launched just three years before the rise of the New Order. Today we take a look at the real reason why this assault carrier was retired so soon.
2nd Channel: / @generationtechshorts
Follow Generation Tech on Instagram: / generationtechofficial
Follow Generation Tech on Facebook: bit.ly/GenerationTechFB
Latest Videos: bit.ly/LatestGT
Popular Videos: bit.ly/GTPopular
Please help our channel by becoming a Patron: bit.ly/GTPatreon
Follow our Host
ALLEN XIE
CZcams / @thebeardedasianman
INSTAGRAM AXIEFILMS
TIKTOK AXIEFILMS
FACEBOOK / axiefilms - Zábava
*Fun fact:* In Legends, the Venator reappeared during the Legacy Era, being used in the fleet of Admiral/Head of the State Natashi Daala
It was also used by Warlord Ennix Devian's faction (I believe they called themselves the Restored Empire).
Ah yes the Maw irregular fleet , where everything was regular with just new irregular tech
Sound like fan-fic. Canonically Venator was not actually retired. But most were build without care for prolonged use and sustain heavy war tear and other issues related to modifications such as Venator 2. Anyway, on end of the war platform was obsolete and was replaced by more capable Imperial. But few Venators what were in decent shape or build up to specs, were used on secondary posts as far as Battle of Endor. Its use during Legacy Era would be like use of Essex today.
@@TheRezro Not an Essex, but the Midway was in service from 1945-1991.
@@mathiasbartl9393 And it also established the basic carrier layout still in use today.
The Venator was retired because the double bridge reminded both Darth Vader and Palpatine of Jar Jar Binks.
*Vader:* It just seems irritating.
*Palpatine* [sensing for a reaction]: Like sand?
😂
Palpatine wanted no reminder of his former Sith master. He was afraid of being in big doodoo this time.
@@AJKecskwhen Palpatine said he killed.his master in his sleep, he meant like yesterday. That's why we don't see Jar Jar after that
@@histguy101 Never thought of it that way! New canon confirmed.
I hate sand.
> "The Venator class Star Destroyer has to stay away from its enemies..."
Anakin, "Hold my beer"
Hold my blue milk
How many ships did he end up figuratively and literally driving into the ground again? And how much is the price tag on each one?
The one way the Galactic Empire could’ve kept the Venator is hollow the mid section at the nose as a launch tube for the TIE Fighters similar to Moff Gideon’s light cruiser
They did. That's the Generation 3 Venator seen at the end of RoTS and if you look closely at the scrapping of the Venators in Jedi Survivor, you'll note that there are a few such Venators being broken up.
The Venator would’ve been the perfect capital ship for the rebels and their Starfighter-based strats. I understand why the Empire rushed to scrap them.
The reason the rebels didn’t was because they required a lot of manpower to run which the rebels didn’t really have, and it didn’t fit in with how they fought battles, which was mostly jump to a place, have a hit and run fight, then leave
I don't think so, the Venator is heavily crew intensive, and would require a ton of automation and resources to become viable for the rebellion, and even then it was unfit for the rebel doctrine of Hit-and-run, and even if it was used it would be outmatched by the Imperial Star Destroyer, a dedicated anticapitalship, and you have to include that most(if not all) of the rebel fleet had hiperdrives by themselves, reducing even further the need of a carrier like the Venator
@@sebastiannavarro9686 The venator would have made an excellent mobile fleet base and command and control center for the rebellion. No Yavin to blow up or Hoth to attack if the Rebel fighter corp is hitting and running from random parts of space.
@@existingistiresome Exactly. Venators could bring the mobility and flexibility a fixed base like Yavin can't. A rebel unit/ group operating from a Venator could be a hassle for the Empire to deal with. And with's hability to land on the surface of a planet, its easier to hade than Mon Cala Cruiser.
@@sebastiannavarro9686 The Venator used as a mobile base tho coud be a real menace. Being able to stay flexible was key to the Rebellion. It's much harder to cut off the snake's head when its swirling around
Anyone else thought the venator was way more powerful than the imperial star destroyer? i thought that way back when i watched clone wars cause the venator seemed to have won so many more fights
ideally the venator should never even be in the same system as the imperial class star destroyer when they engage
Its more like a carrier vs a battleship if they were doing direct line of sight with their main guns.
In terms of sheer firepower, the Imperial Class is more powerful. However, if you consider that the Venator is a carrier, it's complement of starfighters is more effective a counter, as the fighters are more nimble than the Imperial class's turbolasers, and the bombers would be effective in damaging the ship.
Plot armour..Imperium is not allowed to win the day
and was completely misused
thats probably the main reason why the isd was designed as a battleship
The classic "The best war time options dont always mean the best peace time options". Yes, I know the Empire was not true peace time, but it was functionally peace time after a large coupe.
Technically wasn’t a coup. Palpatine was legally voted into power and the Republic did peacefully and legally switch over to an Empire. The Clone Wars technically was a separate issue (I know it was orchestrated by palpatine, but still).
To be fair, palpatine got his power legally and through the democratic process. Even him being a sith wasn’t an issue since the Republic allowed freedom of religion.
If only Palpatine could keep up his facade and not hire people like Tarkin.
@@robertnelson9599he should have put thrawn as him was just the best rebel recruiter
The Venator Class Star Destroyer is an awesome capital ship. It would have been really useful to the Empire.
A few, definitelly, but as Alan showed us in the video, Palpatine (or just the Empire in general) really needed to do something about bringing the economy back up and keeping the population occupied with something. And the entire manufacturing industry of the ISD did just that.
It's too bad Thrawn couldn't get his hands on at least 2 or 3 of these ships.
They would've been a killer combo with his TIE Defender program.
@@MrDibara Not only that but in a previous video (idk how long ago) Alan also made the point of scrapping the Venator had the effect of diminishing the remnants of the Republic. It was the flagship of just about every Republic engagement and was a massive symbol for the former regime. Which is pretty impressive if you think about it given its short time in service.
It also had the effect of removing former traces of the Jedi as it was also known as the Jedi Cruiser (despite not being a cruiser class). Since the Jedi were made out to be traitors to the Republic, its people, and the rising Empire, it was good publicity to excise anything they could. Seeing a Venator was in essence calling back to before the Empire and Palpatine wanted everyone to know the new order was here to stay. Despite collapsing within 30 years lol.
The venator was obsolete and plus the Empire had secutors anyway, the reason why Imperial ships had low complement counts for their sizes was because they needed to distribute a select number of starfighters for sectors respectively as they were a galaxy wide spanning government
Maybe for that reason right there, glad it didn’t appear in the Empire’s fleet. Would have done too much damage.
Empire did use it and it was not.
The Empire made it's own version of a capital carrier called the Secutor-class Star Destroyer. It even retained the Venators bridge design, while being built to house a huge number of TIE's.
Carried about 10 imperial fighter wings and was still able to house a planetary occupation force, while also being equipped with high quality imperial turbolasers and ion cannons, making it much more ideal than the venator
There is one tangible benefit to using oversized ships for heavy handed policing. You can get away with a less steady logistics chain. With that much more volume and less force to carry around you have enough space to stuff it to the gills with supplys and operate independently for close to forever. Depending on the facilities, you have installed it might even be an eternal ship, processing low grade supplys and materials scavenged form the worlds near it into the appropriate ones to keep it going nearly indefinetly.
If you weren’t worried about defection, Venators could potentially be repurposed into mobile bases used to house fleets of hyperdrive equipped task forces to deal with pirates and the like.
The group size could be stripped down to a single Venator and maybe a few support ships but like Allen said, to what end do you need additional fire power, nothing can stand up to a star destroyer Venator or Imperial.
Maybe the ARC-170 could have been of more use in my envisioned scenario, or maybe it would remain unfortunately useless. Imagine Venators being used to house squads of X-wings being sent out to deal with distress calls. That would be wonderful in my mind.
You seen the avrage imp officer. I would legit worrie about some takeing ships like that for makeing a wee empire.
I always love dropping in to hear the technical details of some of my favorite SW ships
This video had a couple points that made me wonder:
What would have happened to the clones if just before the start of AOTC, an unsecured cargo speeder dropped a bunch of pianos onto Kenobi, Jango, Dooku, and Palpatine's heads and nobody ever went to pick up the Clones from Kamino?
Were they insured and they'd just destroy them and go to the bank, or would they have to do a clearance sale, and who would buy them?
Sure the Separatists would win, that's obvious, but what would a clone's life look like in that scenario?
Mabey they would shop around and try the Hutts, petty dictators, depends how able the kaminoans are to go out and make contact with prospective buyers.
Edit; I just had an idea for if the separatist did eventually win, I don't see them wiping out the Jedi and so I could still see the Jedi re-establishing the Republic in the future, but I imagine a much much bigger rift between organic living beings and droids, to the point where droids are almost super rare as a fanfic idea. Use this as you will who ever reads this.
It was just too beautiful. They didn’t deserve it!
The Venator is legends had a known cost of 59 million credits compared to the SD's 150 mill. I only mention that since I'm surprised Generation Tech didn't.
Late Reply, but I don't think the price in legends accounted for Strike Craft, the price tag if you include its air wing of Eta-2s, LAAT/is, V-Wings, and Arc-170s puts it in excess of 149.58 Mil credits.
@@sgaford ah, right. small craft in SW rapidly become ludicrously expensive compared to multi-kilometer bricks.
The reason the US Navy only charged two cents for two aircraft carrier is because they were going to be expensive to scrap. The ships were full of hazardous materials like lead-based paint, PCBs, and asbestos that had to be remediated, and workers would need security clearance to even work on some parts of the ship. Also one of the ships had to be towed from Bremerton WA to Brownsville TX via Cape Horn (too big to transit the Panama Canal). The scraper was basically doing the Navy a favor so they would get more contracts in the future.
The way I always pictured it was that the Venator was a vessel designed for war, taking into account that the vessel is likely to be destroyed outright before a lot of components start wearing out, so less effort was made to make those easy to access, service and/or replace and instead KDY focused being able to build as many of them as possible. It was only once the dust of the Clone Wars started settling that this would become a problem, and the newer vessels developed with peacetime operation in mind would eventually replace them, and the Venator line got discontinued. Spare parts, from then on, would only be available from boneyards so the Empire would have to sacrifice some Venators to keep others operational... Eventually, very few would remain.
I gotta give you props for your home studio setup. It always looks cozy.
All this talk about the Venator makes me realize something: What about the Aclimator Class Star Destroyer? You don't talk about those very often, if at all. They were a major part of the GAR as well and at least one survived past BOE.
The Acclamator was still featured in legends as a carrier frigate.
Those were not Star Destroyers at all, they had about the same shape but they were troop transports for deploying infantry
@@trolley7657 No but they arguably had a better weapons compliment.
These are my go to videos for understanding of the details of the Star Wars economy and military structures. I like keeping the in-depth explanations, it’s given me a better understanding of how everything works and why some things happen the way they did.
Honestly I love the clone wars era equipment, short of a few silly things most platforms actually seem like realistic weapons of war instead of stylistic nonsense.
A few points here:
1) There was a smaller, inbuilt hangar door to the rear of the ship that would probably have been fine for most day-to-day operations, not to mention the side hangar doors.
2) Some of the hangar bays could have been given over to other functions in a rebuild (which would have been much cheaper than scrapping Venators and replacing them with new-build ships. They'd have been available much quicker too.
3) You don't have to keep the things fully occupied. If you don't want to maintain hundreds of fighters, just scale back to what you need, and let the rest of the hangar sit empty.
Talk about everything the empire needed a big base for all those hyperdriveless tie fighters
Well actually the navy sells old ships so cheaply because of the disposal costs of the hazardous materials ie asbestos lead paint ect. Hard to do in the u.s. with epa restrictions its why most ship breaking is done in third world countries with cheap labor and lax environmental controls
My first home loan was 14%, back in 1982. Refinanced at 11%< and that was incredible!
Workers compensation has been stagnant since 1972 so go further back to that point things were easier and easier to buy.
The US sold the USS Kitty Hawk for 1$ (17:25) mainly because otherwise nobody would buy it at all. It was conventionally powered but due to the cost of stripping it down, the scrapping company only barely makes a profit if at all. Sometimes these companies even scrap at a loss (mostly nuclear ships) to keep potential customers like the US Navy. This is also the reason why the brasilian carrier Sao Paulo ( Clemenceau class, Foch) was unceremoniously sunk.
The Navy actually tries to make the value of the ship back?
I about spit my supper across the room when you said Palpatine has small PeePee and again when you said he had a scrotum face! Thank you for the good laugh and a great video!
hey man ive been watching you for years answering all my nerdy star wars questions please keep doing what you do best these are THE best videos to watch while eating much love
Imagine this:
You had a change of admin
It pissed off everyone
There is a rebellion
Many of them served on Venators and know them inside out
You need new ships that your enemies don't know inside and out.
Imagine effective sabateurs disabling Venators with viruses and pinpoint attacks based on their prior knowledge serving on such ships
I think because they were a symbol from the republic and the Jedi. A symbol of hope and justice. Something that Palpatime wanted to get rib of.
hi , loving your narration and content . great work
Well done, thanks for the video.
Yes! I haven’t seen this channel in forever! 🎉
That's why I like the Resurgence Class SD from The First Order so much. Combines both combat philosophies and it looks awesome! Shame we never got to see much of it in action in the movies or series.
In hindsight I feel like putting heavy turbolasers on the Venator was a mistake. It often incentivized captains to close the range and trade broadsides, but with so much internal space dedicated to hangers once the ship lost shields it was essentially a giant glass cannon.
USS Kitty Hawk, there is a video out there showing how they strip it down.
I still can't un-see the Venator class as a giant Jar Jar head flying through space.
Once you see it, you will never stop seeing it...
If the problem was that the Empire needed Battleships instead of Aircraft Carriers then convert Venators in to Battlecruisers. Many early Aircraft Carriers were converted from Battleships or Battlecruisers, and Star Wars is already doing things backwards.
The Venator also was a war time vessel. So the 3 or 4 years of total war count a like 4x peace time. So most of them were worn out.
Love the economy stuff man. Always interesting
Given how the Venator-class seemed to always end up exploding when it fought toe-to-toe with Seperatist capital ships the Republic might have been better served by having a few ships more like the Empire-era Star Destroyers in its fleets.
The capital ships of the Empire-era were designed to fight other capital ships in massed fleet engagements- while the Venator was ideal for patrolling large areas of space for pirate/raider style enemies. Each class of Star Destroyer seems ironically designed for the wars of the era that it didn't see combat in.
In Legends there were to main ships for the Republic Navy, the Venator and the Victory star destroyer one with a reasonable amount of fighters and Bombers (48) and a ridiculous amount of firepower this is the Victory and the carrier with 420 fighters and Bombers and reasonable firepower (eight Turbolader batteries) and this was the Venator.
Its a heavy frigate carrier with a big punch but no staying power and its counter battery fire barly covers its area. Quasers or tie taxi ships cheaper. Faster lower man power cost.
Maybe in Disney Fanfiction it happened like this, but in Legends Palps DID actually invest in trying to rebuild industry and civilian holdings, it was not until the Tarkin Doctrine that The Empire started to hit Finacial issues.
Epic can’t wait to watch
I was honestly shocked some rebel faction didn't scoop up a couple venators
You see that in Andor. The mining firm at the beginning was private after the incident with andor it has become nationalized from the empire.
As expensive as the Imperial Fleet was, calculated against local defence forces, it was cheaper. It's not that local forces were all using the same ships and equipment. Compared to the numbers of smaller and more varied defence ships and fighters some of the Imperial ships and especially the TIE-Fighters were cheaper, especially with the mass production of them.
After the Ruusan Reformation every system needed enough ships to defend themselves from pirates and the like. During the Empire sometimes an entire sector was secure with a single Star Destroyer.which does come cheaper than the defence force for 5 to 20 systems in a sector. Especially with TIE-Fighters stationed at local garrisons.
While the Imperial Fleet was exorbitantly expensive, on local levels it was probably cheaper than the local defence forces they had before. And replacing the local defence forces gave the Empire a source of soldiers that already had some training and only had to be brought up to Imperial standards. Not to mention that local defence budgets were redirected to the Imperial budget.
Also, a 'Pirate Nation' as we saw in 'The Mandalorian' would not have been tolerated by the Empire. Even if it was outside the Empire.
Tha ISD didn't just replace the Venator; it replaced 3 ships: the Venator, the Victory, and the Acclimator. It combined all 3 classes(not very well in the carrier role) into 1 common design. This actually shortens supply and logistics by having parts for 1 design instead of 3.
The Empire, at this time in the Galaxy, went for a more general design, instead of 3 'specialist' designs.
I have something new to criticize the Empire and its military: The idea of creating massive industrial military complex and with a massive military without an actual enemy to fight. And I am not talking about the Separatists holdouts, the rebels and the pirates. I am talking about another galactic polity that is hostile to the Empire, which Palpatine can used as the justification for the massive Imperial military. And by adopting the policy of simply raiding instead of outright conquest like how the Abbasid Caliphate did in the past regarding the Roman Empire and employing the idea of controlled opposition once more, it will created unity within the Empire. He might originally intended for Maul and his Shadow Collective for such a role. However, using Gar Saxon as the controlled opposition and turn the Mandalorian Space into an actual galactic polity will be the good alternative. And doing so will attracted the remnants of the Separatists Alliance to Mandalore and the Mandalorians can capitalized on them to rebuild their own military and justifying such action by claiming that the belief of the New Mandalorians ended in failure and that returning to the old way is now the only option for them. As a result, the Galactic Empire and the Mandalorian Space will be locked in the cycle of raids and counter-raids against one another for the very long time.
Funfact the HMS Invincible, a UK Carrier was for time for sale on Ebay
If I wanted to control a large empire I would want:
1. Quick and easy deployment/regrouping of large numbers of both troops and ships.
2. Versatility.
That’s why I would prefer the Venator and ships/vehicles designed for similar purposes.
Damn i really wasn’t expecting the Helldivers 2 mention lol, the space ship in HD2 does kinda remind me of Star Wars ships
The glasses work for you.
17:32 it was also because she had to be taken to the ship breaker the long way and has hazardous materials. Kitty Hawk couldn’t fit through the Panama Canal and was filled with PCBs
The economics are important, a lot of people don't realize that when WWII ended the U.S. economy crashed. It did rebound but I could see Palpatine wanting to avoid a post war slump that could easily lead to mass discontent.
So another thing as you pointed out was comparing how the venator was a “mobile airfield” which is correct because with the GAR during the war, not only did they need warships, they mainly needed to transport the troops from one location to another very quickly.
During the first battle of geonosis, the in lore reason why we don’t see venators at all is because the acclamators were literal cargo ships more for transport as a faster pace & rapid deployment then being a good warship.
The venator however had the capabilities to be both a good cargo vessel & warship for rapid deployments as well as was used as a temporary barracks for the clones & Jedi, which is why you see a training ground inside the vessels, but as far as being able to house crews, & have the other ship capabilities like a good medical bay, armory, & a starfighter & gunship “factory”, it was stretched very thin on what the ship’s hull was capable of being used for & wasn’t the best for being a true command base at the same time which is overlooked quite often for long campaigns.
The Imperial ISD vessels were much larger, resource driven & expensive with a larger core was mainly because the ISD unlike the venators & accalmators were specifically built for both longer galactic campaigns as well as for a sort of hub for imperial armed forces for dare I say entire planets.
Inside the ISD not only was it a marvel of a command center, their medical bays were consider top of the class that can rival the nebulan medical frigates of the rebel alliance which were practically flying hospitals with guns.
Their barracks were more of a actual R&R facility with a small “bar/lounge” & being able to provide a sort of comfort for the crew & imperial military personal for a solid amount of time while off duty, like how the Death Star had 2 full sized cantinas.
Additionally even though the tie fighters were more of the weakest ships in the galaxy, the ISD not only was able to provide a good cargo space for about a dozen squadrons of tie fighters, but they also were used as a small factory as well as for vehicles like the massive AT-AT in addition used a training facility & armory for the crew from the imperial army troopers, all the way up for highly skilled combatants like the inquisitors where the venators’s armor & training facility was small “vanilla” sort of settings for small practice drills.
While the Venator was more of a airstrip itself, the ISD was more of an actual full on military command center that could be used for mutiple parts of the imperial military & other divisions of the empire such as the science burea & even used as a sort of “diplomatic headquarters” when Palpatine and or any other imperial senator or war lord had more “diplomatic” missions on their agendas.
As an added bonus, the sudden replacement of the clone army that everyone knew as the force fighting for the Republic by a new, unrecognizable military that was used for subjugation would certainly help with the fear factor. Combined with the realization that there are no more Jedi to act as intermediaries and whatnot, Papa Palps had every reason to believe that his reign was secured. Which he was 95% right in that regard.
Add in that it seemed more like an attack ship than a long endurance patroll vessel that was probably built quickly and intended to fly out atack then fly back to base with limited space like a Defiant class while an ISD were more built like England armored carriers, ment to operate anywhere from the north sea to the Pacific on limited ports for months if not years at a time for a massive refit and overhaul.
What the Empire needed was a "Gun Boat Navy" of Arquitens-class light cruisers and Consular-class C70 frigates to patrol the Galaxy, backed up by a sector task force build around a small core of Venator assault-cruisers. So yeah, greatly reduce the number of Venators in service, and mothball the rest. The buildup of the Imperial Navy could focus on light-cruisers with perhaps a few new mega capital ships to "shock and awe" at Imperial Naval Reviews and Galactic Cruises, like HMS Hood in the 1920s and 1930s.
Think of Britain's Victorian Navy which had a Channel Fleet and Mediterranean Fleet of battleships, more of battleships in homeports in reserve with minimum caretaker crews, then a huge overseas fleet of gunboats, corvettes, and cruisers that did the regular show-the-flag and constabulary work of the British Empire. The mass-scrapping of the Venator was dumb, mothball them like Iowa-class battleships, while keeping a few in service.
Want to create jobs and boost industry? Then cycle the reserve fleet of Venators through a major refit program, or even remove the hangers and convert them into battleships by using that central space to mount huge turbo-laser turrets, like the ships from Space Battleship Yamato. Britain did this too during the Victorian Era, modernizing older ironclads and then often placing them back into reserve, or replacing another ironclad. The Royal Navy also built new battleships and cruisers that upon completion went right into the reserve fleet.
With all the wreckage from Clone Wars, many big ships captured from the Separatists and Trade Federation, there is plenty to scrap before the Venators, and you can always scrap the most severely damaged and worn-out Venators too. Plus, you can focus on building up actual infrastructure, from housing to transport, like China does with railways, highways, airports, and entirely new cities.
16:32 YEEEEES now you need to play it please
Makes me wonder how many tie fighters could fit in a venator cause id be crazy to see one exit hyperspace in all grey paint it proceeds to open the hanger and thousands of tie fighters exit in mass
It could fit nearly 192 V-Wings and 192 Eta-2 class interceptors in it's late-war configuration. The Tie/LN was a little wider than the V-wing and a little longer than the Eta-2, so maybe a little less than those 384 ships. (I figured the 36 ARC-170's and gunships would be replaced by their Imperial equivalents, but you could take those off too if you wanted to make a pure Tie-carrier with even more capacity)
@@ChakatBlackstar they could also pull a gazonti and have exterior mounted tie racks too
@@thundermite1241That's a horrible idea for a fleet carrier.
It was always so weird that the republic only had a couple of very specialised ship variants like the venator. I get that they didn't want to obliterate their enemy too easily otherwise the war wouldn't last long. But The seppies had used at least 3-5 different ships in their fleets(I know the rep had frigates but they are mostly useful against Starfighters)
The funny part is the venator as a ship fits the tarkin doctrine better as it was capable of subjugating entire systems while the isd only looked like it could
You make some good points although I kind of have to think that the Republic was fighting a conventional war what it needed was hevay ships of the line like the ISD that could fight conventional battles on a large scale while the Empire was just keeping the peace and putting down bands of rebels which could have benefited from the power projection that the venator provides, send a couple into a system and it can deploy fighters and infantry to fight the disjointed rebel cells, criminals and others across a wide area while still having an equally commanding and daunting presence, one backed by the memory of the Venator's success in the clone wars which was definitely the most important conflict in the recent memory of the Empire
Remembering a previous video, the Venator was rushed out (on purpose to be scrapped later) so it wasn’t optimized/up to par for its cost/could’ve cost less. The reactor was overtaxed and its armaments non-committal trying to be all WW2 yet a bigger reactor would’ve used too much fuel and wasted the power produced while needing more coolant and costing more just to maintain while the ship could’ve gotten or waited for a new reactor of the same class along with every other part of the ship to balance things and be stronger and thus last its entire lifespan not like real US carriers and destroyers and (historically) battleships.
Almost all GAR and Imperial vehicles and starships were produced by Kuat Drive Yards and its subsidaries. The executives of the company were assassinated by Palpatine, and replaced by officers he placed there. And a non-zero amount of their production under the new management was slave labor or prison labor. Any debts incurred were to force the Republic's hand. But Kuat Drive Yards was one of the businesses that wasn't nationalized under the Empire, likely because its hand-picked leadership was compliant. And Venators were still in service well into the Imperial era, Darth Vader's flagship for the first 5 years after the fall of the Republic was a Venator. ISDs were designed for more ground force deployment (with dozens of imperial walkers and stormtrooper transports, as well as housing 5x the number of infantry) than ship-to-ship combat, because their purpose was enforcement/suppression and keeping planets in line rather than pitched battles in space. But, again, Venators were still in service up until nearly the first death star in canon. But economics did lead to the ending of the Kaminoan cloning operations, as cheaper conscripts and volunteers filled the ranks of the storm troopers. And It was a fleet of Venators that razed the Kaminoan cloning facility after the Emperor cancelled the contract. (Bad Batch). All of this is, of course, stuff retconned into the milieu in later media... the original reason was because George told his designers to come up with cool ships that looked like they could predate the cool ships from the OT.
the way my mouth dropped as you perfectly described me getting off work and orbital striking the piss out of myself and the boys 😂😭
Venator was designed around a near-peer conflict and contest space beyond the range of it's turbolasers with reliable, broadly available repair and supply depots. Imperial was designed around long haul patrol, with resupply being unavailable or possibly tampered with, generally in solo operation, and only had to contest the space it immediately occupied. By sheer size, it raised the ante on cost to field a peer vessel that very few planetary defense forces/pirates/etc attempted to do so. In forcing most adversaries to the small ship / starfighter format, ditching starfighter hyperdrives in favor of combat speed/maneuver further forces the opposition into the empire's advantages.
Venator is an aircraft carrier; ISD is a battleship.
The best navy uses them together, with lots of smaller ships too. But both republic and empire focused too heavily on one or the other.
Millennium stadium in Cardiff, Wales, is the second largest stadium with retractable roof in the world, and cost £2.54 to open (about $3). It takes 20 minutes. The venator class SD opens a lot quicker, but still will not be that expensive. It doesn't weigh much in space!
It has been years Allen, literally. Years. Ya'll have not changed.
the VSD's usefulness is why i actually enable the Venator as a buildable ship in AOTR. it was a valuable ship that had no right being on the frontline it is a carrier.
This is great information but it really comes down to Lucas doing the prequels after the originals.. which essentially boxed the story in. Still.. great information 😀
The airport story reminds of a little thing I once heard about Japanese work culture. It’s quite difficult to get fired in Japan apparently. Instead a company will reassign people to dead end positions that are so boring that the people leave on their own.
Rumour has it that the team that made the first 4 Silent Hill games consisted of these reassignments. Putting them all on some dead end project that wasn’t gonna go anywhere. And then it went somewhere and was great.
One of the options he could have done.
Was take the venetore and weld the hanger shut, move the vulnerable command deck into the void hangar space and use the smaller auxilery hangar doors for launching tie fighter, bolt on some extra guns and reactors.
Call it a day.🤔
The venator to me seems like the perfect ship for the Rebllion if they could their hands on a few
In the post-prequel, pre-Disney days of 2005 to 2015, there was some speculation among fans that some Venator class ships were maybe converted to Imperial class vessels in the very early days of the empire. The idea was inspired by how a few battleship hulls were hastily converted to aircraft carriers in the mid 20th century. But it was also theorized that this star destroyer conversion program was then eventually scrapped due to various problems, delays, and cost overruns, which revealed that it was quicker and cheaper to just build Imperial class ships from scratch.
I always thought this was a cool idea, in that it would have highlighted the inefficiency of this kind of galactic-scale bureaucracy, but it's possible that subsequent canon developments might have since ruled out the possibility. 🙂
I recall Thrawn saying, he wanted his defender class Tie fighters, instead of the Death Star,, would serve the Empire better.
palps knew how to blow smoke and use lots of mirrors
I never understood why they just didn't use droid for a lot of things.
The real missed opportunity was to waste the Venators by scrapping them instead of pairing a Venator with an Imperial Star Destroyer. You could also have the Reserve/National Guard/Clone Troopers run the Senators and retire the heavily battle damaged Venators and Acclamator ships by having them as target practice for new crews of ISDs.
The other loss of a Venators was as a cargo ship or a mixed use platform where it could haul munitions, cargo, and fuel in exchange for a smaller fighter/craft compliment. They could also be used as mobile space command stations.
In a historical comparison, the retirement of the Venators and Acclamators is similar to many of the WW II naval vessels due to Military technology moving so rapidly at the end of the war. Even the USS Enterprise (The BIg E) that held the line in the Pacific during 1942 was not worth keeping at the end of 1945. But with the Venators and Acclamators you could also use the scrap value of retired ships to automate many of the jobs on the ship. Also with less personnel the operations costs drop significantly. I just see the junking of the Clone fleets as a missed opportunity where ships that already exist could have bought more time and eased the tension the Empire created more gradually throughout the Inner Rim and Midrim worlds, leaving the newer ISDs and mixed fleets a chance to overwhelm areas where pirate and rebel activities were more rampant. You also could have used the Clones and Clone Wars vehicles to go after Organized Crime Syndicates and bring those to heel pretty quickly for basically sunk costs (paid for by the Clone Wars and the Republic). I think B wings and Y Wings would have been worth retaining with TIE Fighters to pack more of a punch and work in forgotten theaters around the Galaxy.
Love those glasses 😍
I suspect the Rebels wouldn't have been able to field an significant number of Venators, because of the supply and maintenance issues. Early on, when Ventators were plentiful, they wouldn't have had the manpower to crew one in any give cell, or the resources to maintain it, and concentrating multiple cells together to do so would be suicidal.
Later, when the Mon Cals joined and brought shipyards and facilities that could handle Venators, and the Alliance was big enough to crew them, the Ventators would have been mostly scrapped.
Still, I like to believe there were one of two that defected to the Alliance early on, ships that for whatever reason never received Order 66, or refused the order. Stories about some lone ship, struggling to fight back, going from place to place like a Ghost, always on the edge of failure due to struggles for supplies, manpower, and resources, always barely one step ahead of the ISDs hunting them, until finally after decades of struggle they have a homecoming to the Mon Cal shipyards for a long-overdue refit and leave.
The way I look at it is that the Empire was making the mistake of many real world nations by prepairing for the next war with the impression that it would be like the last war.
During the Clone Wars, the venator class star destroyer was a reliable all purpose capital ship but, it had one major weakness. It was not an individually powerful ship and it had to heavily rely on its fighter complement. The venator was put up against mass produced damage focused munificent frigates which could overwhelm the venator with numbers and providence cruisers which were just all around more powerful ships. So, the imperial ship designers probably had the C.I.S. navy in mind when designing the imperial class star destroyer. If you look at it, it makes sense. It's a big, heavily armed ship made to fight other capital ships at close range while letting its fighters counter enemy attack craft. It was made to fight against the droid navy.
It’s very similar to WW2. Hitler built Bismarck and Tirpitz, Japan built Yamato.
Britain and America built aircraft carriers and sunk Bismarck with Swordfish aircraft (with help from some Battleships) and America sunk Yamato with Fighter-bombers.
The Venator vs the ISD is not a combat comparison to be made, the Venator would dispatch its entire flight wing and overwhelm the ISD’s defences, leaving it stricken and defenceless so that Y-Wings can bomb the ISD and the Venator can move in with its turbolaser batteries. The Venator could maintain this standoff fight indefinitely, as the ISD has no way to find it, and the Venator can keep launching patrols/scouts and rearming its 400 fighters
Broke out laughing at your description of what some guys would do if left alone for too long.
From my understanding, this means that the ISD is a peacetime icon that serves more as a deterrent than the Venator, which served a military role for power projection instead. Is this accurate?
Also money. XD
Usually the only reason old nave ships are retired during an active building program of new ones, is the lack of crews for both old and new ships.
The Venator is an excellent carrier, but only so-so at direct combat. The ISD still carries quite a few fighters and attack craft, but also remember those are standard loadouts and lots of little variations, both official and unofficial, tend to crop up. For example, an alternative loadout might replace some or all of the planetary assault landers with more fighters. There's probably more than a few ISDs that carry an oversized complement of small craft, functioning as effective fleet carriers. There has to be some degree of modularity in terms of what all can be carried in that huge hangar bay.
Do you think the imperial navy should've never made the imperial class and keep the venator as the main capital ship? Or have them both as supports for each other?
They could have saved money on the venetor if the had called to launch door motivator system “Frictionless magnetic drives” or FMD’s
thinking tactically, retaining venators as carriers supporting isd's in a fleet makes sense. yet the need for that rarely arose during the civil
Yeah but qusars or the tie taxi ship would be better. Same role but faster, cheaper and lower man power cost.
Palpatine was getting ready for the Yuuzhan Vong.
Excellent economic breakdown Alan...GOOD ANALYSIS😉🤑💯%!
The Venator class is my favorite star wars ship next to the Consular-class refit as a ship I would us in my Imperial remnant
The main hanger on the Imperial class is also situated better for planetary operations.
Hi Allen !
I doubt even a full redesign could have saved the class from being retired but I wonder what a sort of Venator-II would look like in the Imperial Navy. Strip the internal systems and replace them with simpler alternatives to cut down as much mechanical complexity wherever possible, drop all the weapons other than turbolasers and point defense, outfit it to exclusively support TIEs and limited numbers of landing craft like the Sentinel-class.
I think scraping the vast majority of venators and keeping a select handful for a bonus carrier ship to the fleets would of been pretty economical. It would of still meant you need the new fleet but still keeps a bit of the flexibility of the clone wars military. You would only need one venator per fleet. Imagine how completely different a battle would be of the rebellion has to deal with the star destroyer and venator
The empire should have kept the Venators even if they're mothballed and put in storage for just in case it's ever needed in a quick fix. Yes maintenance would be needed but they proved to be worthy ships if they had to deal with a sizable adversary down the road....or if the rebel alliance grew to such a capacity that they could take some for themselves.
The Venator is still my favorite Capital ship, I just wish it was slightly more offensively viable without its army of fighters.