He Did Not Try PANKRATION (Sensei Seth Video Breakdown & Ancient Greek Combat Sport Analysis)
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
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Breakdown of the @SenseiSeth video on pankration. The reason I go into so much detail and breakdown almost every line, is because pankration’s biggest obstacle is the sheer amount of misinformation that circulates about it, everywhere. It is a lesser-known subject, and even academia is riddled with mistakes, mistranslations, and misinterpretations of the sport. This leads to a bad public image, which in turn does not allow it to be recognized by governing bodies like UNESCO and even blocks it from returning to its rightful place in the Olympics.
Sources referenced (not shown) in the video:
[1] On the Kicking Techniques of Pankration: www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/...
[2] Pausanias, Descriptions of Greece, 8.40.2-5: www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...
[3] Athletics of the Ancient World, 49, 84, 229: www.academia.edu/37176289/E_N...
[4] Arrichion’s Last Fight: What Really Happened?: ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_hollenba...
If you have any questions on the sources displayed in the video, let me know in the comments or send an email.
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Like, subscribe, hit the notification bell, and share the video with anyone you think might be interested. It helps the channel expand, which, in turn, will allow me to produce more content.
#pankration #senseiseth #breakdown #history #sports #combatsports #mma #ancientGreece #ancientGreek #olympics #mma #martialarts #wrestling #grappling #brazilianjiujitsu #jiujitsu #muaythai #BJJ #martialarttechniques #athletics
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Written, Edited, Voiced by Athanasios Bonas: Email: amopankration@gmail.com
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I was going to re-record this because my initial reaction may have been somewhat coarse.
Pankration’s biggest obstacle is the sheer amount of misinformation that circulates about it, everywhere. It is a lesser-known subject, and even academia is riddled with mistakes, mistranslations, and misinterpretations of the sport. This leads to a bad public image, which in turn does not allow it to be recognized by governing bodies like UNESCO and even blocks it from returning to its rightful place in the Olympics.
As someone researching the sport for so long, you can understand my frustration for this predicament. I figured I’d keep my initial recording, simply because it would then have to be restructured and scripted. Cheers
Yeah honestly seth is usually a good guy, And has been one of the ones to feature even chinese kung fu, aikido and even systema in his videos, sparring with the techniques from the style, He's brought awareness to a lot of styles and how they can be used against dynamic resisting opponents, he's a genuinely talented, respectful, humble and disciplined martial artist, and you were likely correct about this being out of ignorance, rather than outright malicious lying, because he would not do this on purpose, and he tries to seek out experts in these disciplines but especially with something like pankration him doing that simultaneously made it very easy for him to be misled
No point in re doing it man.
A lot of people on the Internet have doing this purposely, I don't mean Seth in particular, but many others they pretend to know something that they barely know just for money.
I have no sympathy for people that pretend to be masters but are barely over apprentices.
Keep th good work.
To preface my statement I'd like to say I subscribed and I admire your dedication to historical accuracy and your passion for the ancient sport of Pankration. I also look forward to learning more about it as I watch more of your videos.
However, I do think you were unnecessarily harsh to Sensei Seth here. This is part of his series of videos where he finds an expert in a specific martial art and goes and trains with them for a short period of time before doing a competition or something along those lines and shares the experience with his audience. It's a very informal way to showcase the surface level of a martial art and maybe get people interested in practicing or learning more about it.
His editing style and presentation are primarily aimed at being fun and light-hearted as opposed to serious research and technical perfection. The people to blame for the inaccuracies here would be the "Expert" on Pankration that Seth had teaching him what Pankration was and some of the history behind it.
Now this doesn't excuse the misrepresentation of the sport perpetrated in the video but the degree to which Seth is responsible for it considering he treated it the same way he's treated Sambo, Sumo, Judo, catch wrestling etc. The format of doing some surface-level research and then finding an expert in the field to teach you in person just didn't work for Pankration specifically.
I guess what I'm getting at is while I understand your frustration with people misrepresenting something you're passionate about, you should cut Seth some slack. If you take a lighter tone towards him personally while still pointing out all the facts he got wrong you can potentially pull a much greater portion of his audience into watching and learning from this video.
@@caliber5965 I agree with most of what you say, but I don't think surface-level research is excusable when you're a professional with such a large audience. There's a certain amount of responsibility that comes with making revenue through publishing videos, and people should hold content-creators to a proper standard of research for informative content.
@@AMOPankration You're the right person to criticise someone who talks about this sport and its history, as you've proven to be very passionate and knowledgeable about pankration. Even if the attitude was a little brash for my taste, i can honestly excuse it as I'm also Greek and disappointed at the lack of educated discourse regarding the sport. I'm glad there's someone who is willing to make good quality videos covering all aspects of that part of our history for non-Greeks, as I'm sure you're aware most Greek channels almost never produce content in English.
In defence of Sensei Seth, he is going to 'experts' in the field to learn. When you have no experience in Pankration it is easy to be misled. The 'experts' on the other hand should be called out.
I agree with you. He has a high success rate of finding really good instructors of different martial arts. In this case, based off the evidence that this channel is showing, he was unfortunately provided bad information.
@@Ran_rx The good thing about the Internet is that people can call out mistakes easily, the bad thing is people can call out mistakes easily. Fortunately, AMO has called out the mistakes, given sources and logical arguments, unlike the usual 'No, that's not right, my teacher says...'
Well, then there's the fact that I posted a comment on his video about a "Shaolin master", pointing out with sources that the person is possibly nothing of the sort, and had that comment deleted within minutes.
This suggests to me that whatever he started out as, he's now a businessman first and foremost.
you mean like in the scotts games where he tried to first sell it to us as scottland? Seth is not really trying hard to find some serious sources.
Given the cirumstances no one can pretend to entitle themselves 'expert' on this subject, the ones that are dedicated to the matter are still discovering and researching
He normally goes to a martial artist and learns their martial art while not knowing a lot, he’s relying on the information of the “scholars” that he met. I wouldn’t blame him and I hope that he sees it. Thanks for teaching me about the subject, I didn’t know how wrong they were in the video.
Totally agree. Okay we can't know exact practices and detiles, but why to lie in general and in shch a manner. Watchin video I see nothing but propaganda, that in Greece was "dark age of violance worship". I don't belive total, but say it may be plausible. Now I see "experts" lies like they been payed for it! It is very good Isee this video right next.
As a martial artist and a history nerd, a book on pankration and the history would be beautiful. Thank you for your content.
Inner traditions has one. I think it's called the martial arts of ancient Greece or something like that. They try to reconstruct the techniques based on written accounts, frescos, etc.
You’re a martial artist never heard of you though no offense
@@acmartialarts2227 never heard of you too
As a watcher of Sensei Seth I appreciate u making this video and pointing out the mistakes and miss doings.
I would love to see a collab where yall talk about pankration and the topics of both videos.
I enjoy Sensei Seth's videos, but the inaccuracies that you've pointed out are quite substantial. I'm glad i got to see this perspective.
sensei seth is a nice and funny dude who has a passion for martial arts. i think the problem here is the instructors he found but i would assume it would be pretty hard for him to find anyone there who actually knows much about the topic, especially while looking for instructors and not historians. there are also many myths about pankration, many of which even i as a greek fellow found out to be false only just now while watching this video
I mean finding someone with know how is already hard enough, but to find one who is both an accurate historian and trains in the combat is even harder. Seth was bound to get misinformation
It still amazes me how much academics, who I understand are not perfect and are still people I greatly respect, get wrong about pankration. In my martial arts history studies, I've found so many conflicting accounts of how the sport was actually portrayed as.
I think it is because they lack any experience from full contact sports. many conclusions from this video are pretty much common sense, if one has martial sport experience. no rule combat, stances and positions etc.
I'm sure Seth and most of the fans appreciate the feedback tho (cuz I certainly do haha)
in the pursuit of progress and growth truth can be discomforting to face but we shouldn't fear it or be discouraged by it
As soon as I saw that Seth made a video about Pankration I started waiting for you to post something. Great stuff as always
Sensei Seth is really respectful and realistic about martial arts, i do believe he would accept these corrections
He's not
@@anthonyagureyev307What do you mean exactly? I've seen nothing in his videos to suggest he's anything but respectful and realistic.
@@anthonyagureyev307How do come to this conclusion?
Thank you for making this video. I hope Seth sees it.
Somebody should call out Sensei Seth for this (not in a bad way though, just fixing misunderstandings)
I've been following Sensei Seth's channel, and he's a pretty funny guy and even a better martial artist. He's a humble person so I'm sure if he watch this video, he would likely go and do his own research, and upon finding that he was indeed wrong, would admit it.
Yea for sure
I wasn't expecting this but i should have, really excited to watch this!
I bought the book. 95% of it is talking about BJJ from a philosophical point of view. It was decent but I thought it was going to be a lot more about ancient greek combat sports.
would love a book on pankration, i would love to learn more about it
banger video as always. your frustrations are understandable, don't think you were nasty about it
I hope Sensei Seth sees this.
If you write a book on this and I can order it off Amazon, or something - I'm 100% buying it. Your videos are a delight. I'm a MMA geek for a decade now, but fairly new to grappling/BJJ as a whole (if that makes sense) and as I explore the history of where it all came from like a true fan, I've ran into your channel and watches each and every beautifully created video for all of those details you share. Keep up the great work, and I hope to see a book from you. Hell, I'll even send you a photo with the book as a proof if it comes out 😂
Just want to echo this! I would totally be interested in reading that!
This is an awesome channel! like others have mentioned a published book would be amazing! Often youtube channels attempt to cater to the masses by diluting their information and shy from use of terminology specific to an academic area but you list your sources and cite them by name. Its refreshing but also incredibly educating.
I'm glad I stumbled on your channel as a result of the algorithm recommending your reaction to sensei Seth whom I follow for his mma/karate content (as a practitioner of martial arts myself) and as a result I'd encourage you to continue reacting style videos to increase your audience not with the intent of becoming an influencer but to introduce your channel to people who would appreciate your content.
Its unfortunate that many content producers specifically within the field of martial arts and fitness use this platform for producing palatable entertainment instead of disseminating information whether academic/historical or practical as it does cause misinformation. This channel is unique in the sense that it almost takes the opportunity to summarise a papers findings in a short video format which is incredibly satisfying and the production value with images is really great.
Primary sources, accurate criticisms, and channel full of ancient techniques and workouts. Instant subscribe.
I like Sensei Seth, but those dudes were full of it. Impressed with your research! I've always been interested in Pankration so glad to have found this channel. Subscribed
I enjoy Sensei Seth's videos from time to time, especially his video on Pankration. However, I do agree with you that there were some aspects of his Pankration video that were off, especially due to the guests that he had on board. Granted, I am still learning about Pankration's history, techniques, and cultural importance as a martial art that demonstrates strength, skill, power, might, and accurate timing. Nevertheless, research on Pankration must be done with precision, understanding, and clarity, without the necessity for over-sensationalism. It is also thanks to your channel that I have been keeping my mind totally open about Pankration, which does need a lot more attention and appreciation.
I'm a longtime fan of Seth and of Pankration. I got interested in it as an MMA practitioner when I saw a picture of a vase in a store in Thessaloniki that clearly depicted someone catching a roundhouse kick. I watched Seth's video and was pretty disappointed. That British guy reminds me of the way the Victorians approached Greek history: all poetry, few sources. I'm so glad I was able to find the channel as a result of this and I'm going to go binge all of the videos now. ευχαριστώ πολύ
And, for what it's worth, Sensei Seth probably would be interested in hearing the real rules and trying to emulate some original techniques.
I'm so glad I came accross this video just now. Your very well-informed and logical breakdown of Seth's run-in with "pankration" got me instantly hooked to what else you might have to say on your channel! Yay history!
Great video as always. Thank you for the consistent, historically accurate and authentic uploads.
Big Sensei seth fan here i would just like to say this was a very interesting video, and i appreciate the penchant for historical accuracy as i am a big nerd for history and martial arts
God I love this channel, keep up the great work!
I can only speak for me, and I really like your channel and your work. And if, one day, you write a book about pankration, I intend to buy it. Keep on the good work.
Πολυ ωραιο βιντεο, και κατευθειαν στο νοημα, ωστοσο με ενοχλει οτι γινεσαι λιγο επιθετικος ωρες ωρες. Ναι ειναι ενοχλητικο οταν ο αλλος κανει παραπληροφορηση για την ιστορια μας, αλλα θα μπορουσες να παρεις την ευκαιρια να κερδισεις ενα ξενο κοινο παρα να τους κατσαδιασεις. Προσωπικα μου αρεσουν πολυ τα βιντεο του Seth, και πιστευω απλα δεν ειχε καλυτερο reference για να συγκρινει αυτα που του λεγανε. Τελος παντων, συνεχισε τα βιντεο που κανεις στα Αγγλικα γιατι πιστευω επιτελους πρεπει να μαθει ο κοσμος την ιστορια του παγκρατιου. Ασχολουμαι με mma χρονια τωρα στην Αγγλια ερασιτεχνικα, και δεν εχω γνωρισει κανεναν ο οποιος να ξερει την ιστορια του αθληματος και το ποσο παλια φτανει.
htan ligo pio epithetikos ap oti prepei me ton seth pisteuw. oi daskaloi pou brhke o tupos htan gia ton poutso, o tupos exei pathos me tis polemikes texnes kai deixnei sebasmo, den nomizw oti tha ekane eskemena video me paraplhroforish h oti eixe kakes protheseis kai den exei sebasmo gia to athlhma. genika gia atoma pou den kseroun kai theloun na mathoun einai kalutero na tous plisiaseis kai na tous bohthiseis anti na tous krazeis, giati etsi tha se kanoun automata dismiss kai to idio isxuei kai me to koino pou blepei, opws eipes polu swsta kai esu.
Got a sub. I love showing sources - even though I cannot read them.
whats your take on jim arvanitis and his neopankration that he has created he has wrote several books on pankration i was curious what you thought of him
Much respect for your work Sir.
Seth's videos are normally quite good, though I think he would be the first to admit he isn't an expert on of this its just an attempt at an entertaining video and he has obviously taken these peoples "Expertise" for granted. Thanks for illuminating the truth of Pankration very interesting stuff, you have earned a sub :)
Where are you in Greece, I would like to learn Pankration from you.
Greetings from Serbia brother.
Great video, thanks for sharing!
I love your channel! I think I’ve been following and watching since you first started. Pankration was the first grappling art I feel in love with. Your attention to detail on historical accuracy is invaluable. Please continue with your work and I would love to read a whole Novel of your works, if you had one. I’ve been training BJJ for over a decade but I have a strong love for all martial arts and I’ve always wanted to stylize my own grappling to more like a Pankration fighter. My ultimate dream is to bring back the spirit of the ancient sport in the form of a modern grappling tournament. Using a rule set more akin to the original games. Please don’t ever stop, I can’t wait for your next video. Thanks!
Thank you, for the in depth video showing the incorrect information and not just tearing into the other CZcamsr.
Εξαιρετική ανάλυση συνονόματε! Βρέθηκα εδώ τυχαία, αλλά το περιεχόμενο και η σοβαρότητά σου με κέρδισαν και εγγράφηκα! Συνέχισε έτσι!
Thank you for making this response video. Seth's channel is a dismal clownshow of misinformation.
This is the first video I have seen from your channel and the content is well spoken and very interesting. Subscribed.
Awesome Video :)
Brilliant video mate and well done for debunking most of the stuff
Sensei Seth apparently didn't do enough research on pankration one of the first true mixed martial arts. I really enjoy your channel and thank you for correcting Sensei Seth's misinformation.
Am not saying Seth is completely innocent but i blame the "experts" more. I didn't look but i am pretty certain there just aren't many people that even know about this martial arts in states - and even less practice it - and even less have studied it in surface level - and even less have looked at the sources. Seth probably just did a google search and picked one that was closest to him. And since he chose making yt as his job he has to make videos within certain time frame so he might not have time to fact check and doublecheck to make sure he doesn't spread misinformation. Yes he is to blame for picking and creating series format which eventually is guaranteed spread misinfo at some point (no one can be expert at everything and trying to make a few videos a month about niche martial arts and/or training means that he has to rely on other people which eventually he just is going to pick wrong "expert" - we have seen tv channels do this with bigger budget in past). I also understand "the game" and the scenario that lead to this. Now lets see how Seth reacts. Am sure he is going to at least hear about this video but am not sure if he is going to ignore this topic and move on, if he is going to try co-op or at least make a video with apology/corrections and shoutout to AMO with a link to this video. He has made at least one "i was wrong" video in past but maybe it was only because he can monetize it (he made "martial arts tier list" years ago where he listed most well known martial arts he has seen on media... now he remake that list but now he has at least "tried" them.. meaning that he made video similar to what AMO was reacting to... so often 1 day of training, sparring and theory... sometime he spends a week which is bit more fair).... so i feel like he won't be making public video :/ I don't follow him on social medias so i dunno if he is that kind of person who posts apololigies/corrections on twitter for example... but to me that isn't enough since he knows his core audience is on youtube and posting stuff on 3rd party sites means he kinda is hiding his mistake(s).
Seth isn't to blame for any "misinformation" on his end. He's repeating what was said by people who he thought were experts of that martial art. Which if you're not an expert yourself, you kinda have no choice but to take their word for it. Which is what he's done for almost all of his videos covering martial arts. "No such thing as bad student, only bad teacher".
Nice video, I love learning about history and martial arts, I think i'll end up watching more of your content.
Very interesting to consider. Would love the idea of a book.
out of curiosity would you ever cover pancrase, the japanese fighting organisation bas rutten fought in?
This was a very interesting video and I’m glad it cleared up a lot of misconceptions and enlightened me on some things I had wrong about the sport. But as someone who watched Sensei Seth, I can confidently say that he did not have malicious intent with this video. It’s pretty clear that he had turned to these guys who he thought were experts and got swindled. I would love to see you collaborate with him or contact him to make a new more accurate video on the subject. Also, don’t get so uptight about the sponsor segment. That was clearly a joke and something he added in to make the advertisement more entertaining. Overall great video though.
Congratulations ❤
Incredible work.
Thank you for the rational, real world facts of the matter. And YES a book on Pankration would be AWESOME.
Άριστος αδερφέ μου! Άραγε στις μέρες μας υπάρχει όπως ήταν; Ασχολούμαι με τις πολεμικές τέχνες και πάντα το σκέφτομαι αυτό
I was waiting for this video lol
Thank you. When watching the video the descriptions of "all in" and "destroying" the opponent seemed a bit odd to me as someone who reads a lot of history, but I'm not very knowledgeable about Greece so I couldn't tell. This was a fantastic corrective video you made.
I didn't know there was this much actual attention on it. Glad he make this and that you called him out here. Since I probably wouldn't have discovered your channel otherwise.
I like his stuff quite a bit. But, I don't think any of the mistakes in the video are his fault so much as picking bad experts. Which he should have done a bit more diligence. But his overall approach is generally to try to find good or legitimate experts, have them teach some stuff, and then try to apply, contextualize, or practice it. So, I am not super surprised that he ended up highlighting someone who didn't know what they were talking about or was a fraud in the process.
I would love to potentially see you and him on a voice call or even meeting face to face.
It was nice to hear you bring that up. I will make sure to bring it up on his videos.
I am subbing and checking out your other videos.
I learned some Greek in high-school and read the Odyssey in Greek back in the day but am rusty enough I can't really read it anymore. But I do know some Greek words.
But language barriers can easily become an issue for historical topics. especially since as I heard modern and historic greek is different.
If I here you correctly it seems like take-downs were less of thing then? Some of your other videos seem to suggest that takedowns were included?
I recently have starting doing more weight work and have been inquiring into doing proper hand-based martial arts for the first time.
I am more focused on weights in the short term, but once I feel confident with the basics of barbell work I hope to learn a striking and maybe get back into learning some sort of grappling more systematically. (Leaning towards BJJ just based on what is arround me.) Pankration is interesting but there is nothing like that around me really.
I did HEMA for a long time so I appreciate your historical approach. Although, Pankration doesn't have the blessing of old manuals.
And a little bit of western wrestling. Not a lot though. And some wrestling was involved in my HEMA training but it wasn't the focus.
whoa glad i found this channel.
As a Sensei Seth subscriber, I appreciate this video for correcting misconceptions, and I hope he would too
In Seth's defense, all information he's getting is from these scholars he's training with and has no reason to believe they'd be lying to him or wrong.
Very interesting video. New suscriber instantly.
Εξαιρετικό βίντεο! Με έκανε να σκεφτώ πόσοι ξένοι 'ειδικοί' σε αρχαιοελληνικά θέματα είναι πραγματικά ειδικοί.
Yikes, I was a few minutes into his video cringing a bit over the dramatic way they went about introducing the sport and especially over the misrepresenting over the word Kratos when I saw your video actually recommended to me on the side. Decided to watch it with you instead and boy I'm lucky I did. Usually you get professionals to help talk about a topic you don't know much about but I guess what are you meant to do when those professionals aren't right either lol. The water bit got me, so damn silly. I mean some events nowadays have short term issues getting water to their crowds but to say an organised event from those times wouldn't have any for the competetors talks down on the professionalism and competency of the men who organised these events. These are the same people who organised what would now be considered an international event before the time of email mate, as a live musician I can't fathom being about to oranise something so complex without a modern day crutches and I have nothing but respect for the people who organised these tremendous occassions.
Great video man, sucks that the experts Seth got turned out to be anything but experts, but your critique of that video was very informative!
Brother thank you for making this video. This sport is amazing and I want to learn more. I have a huge respect and I honor the sport. I understand where you are coming from too because as a native Hawaiian man I’d want our martial arts to be explained correctly and with some authenticity.
Would it be possible for you to lobby the Greek government to establish Pankration as the national martial art; thus, re-creating the historic rules. Authentic Greek historians would have to do proper research. If this could be accomplished, no one would be able to call their own version "Pankration". I'm sure you would have a significant role in bringing it back the way it is supposed to be.
I like this idea.
This is the goal, but lobbying the government without funds or connections in Greece is all but impossible.
The very idea of recreating a martial art that has not been practised for probably a lot more than a thousand years is totally nuts. A few depictions and texts are just not enough if you don't have live teachers and practitioners. Just consider that martial arts with thousands of practitioners and hundreds of teachers, detailed textbooks and even video documents radically change within less than a hundred years, they evolve, merge with other styles etc. What pangration would we recreate? That of 600BC? 200BC? 200 AD?
@@brigade911 The idea isn't about recreating a carbon-100% accurate-copy of what was. It's about reimplementing similar rules & techniques and allowing it to evolve. The rules are what make the sport, and adapting to them makes the style. Pankration has thousands of years of difference with Muay Thai yet they both ended up with a similar stance. You have to consider things deeper than just scratching the surface.
@@brigade911 Thus, the historians researching and re-creating.
Seth seems like a pretty good guy. I follow two of his channels. I'll bet he was just reiterating what those guys were telling him. But, I agree you shouldn't pass on misinformation. So, thank you for setting things straight or I would have passed on misinformation also.
Let me say this: Your attention to history and reality is truly wonderful. I could commend you on that basis alone.
As someone who only knows advanced striking and extremely rudimentary grappling, I understand that the master of your greatest weakness is also your greatest teacher. I am sincerely glad that I stumbled across this channel.
That said, if I was to attempt to fortify my largest weaknesses:
Are there any other channels you would recommend in order for me to learn?
Thank-you regardless of response. I am grateful for your time.
I would be glad to support your potential book - after all, It's people like me who need that the most.
Unfortunately I really don't know of a channel to recommend for grappling, but there are so many that you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a decent one. I would just recommend (in terms of an approach) looking for channels that might not immediately catch your eye, but look respectable. Appreciate the kinds words.
Teach me grappling coach brian is very good grappling channel (one of the best imho)
I like Seth's videos, but this one took it to another level. Very interesting to hear perspective from someone who's studied a particular sport for so long. Seth tries everything. It's fun to watch, because of the action and trying new things. (Action videos vs documentary) I do wish we had more factual and scholarly researched documentary videos about the history of different martial arts. My Muay Thai coach says there's alot of misinformation about it too.
Thank you so much for clearing up misinformation about my heritage ❤️
YES!! A BOOK ON PANKRATION PLS!!!!
As a sensei seth 's community, I firstly click the video because of him, but I like your contents and I subscribe so thanks to sensei Seth for sensibilisation and thanks to you for more deeper information😁😁
Thank you for the upload Brother! Any good links to Pankration in London or Surrey then please do let me know!
Peace & Love!!!!
I have no links to pankration anywhere in the world, unfortunately. Pankration's renewal is still in its infancy. Cheers
Thank you for clarifying. My first time learning about Pankration was with Sensei Seth and, although its not his fault, I was misslead. With your knowledge I was able to finally understand and learn about a sport that interests me as both in the History part and sport part. (Also if my grammar is trash I'm sorry because english is not my first language)
I'd love to read that book.
There's a clip on CZcams about Pankration from the show Museum Sercets, you could do a video analysis on it too.
Its funny how much misinformation about Greek history goes around because people like to grab the first Roman or Medieval source they find (or God forbid modern) and not bother with the actual Greek stuff and again they'll go for the most common, barely anyone will bother to find the original Greek source.
Cmon, everyone knows The 300 is a legitimate and trustworthy source
@@minhducnguyen9276 😃
Non the less, 300 is maybe more historically acurate than when Hollywood actually tries to make a historically acurate movie !
@@adwarfsittingonagiantsshoulder Same with old war movies. They didn't claim to be historically accurate but still managed to have less dramatization than the "based on real historical events" movies. I mean, the new ones are technically based on historical events, they just didn't specify how much they are based on real historical events.
I liked Seth's video as Entertainment but took it to be amateurish, so it's great to see your corrections based on academic sources and rigor
Hello, sir. I happen to be a fan of Sensei Seth and I believe that he would love to have you correcting the errors and missinformation in his video. He is a humble man and have an open mind about martial arts in general. I' m shure he had no bad intention or desire to mock your culture or passion. Hope you consider reaching him in the future. Greetings from Brasil.
you should make some vid on books about the matter, I read one about combat sports among ancient Greeks covering boxing, pankration, javelins, etc (I just read the parts about pankration, boxing and physical training).
Bravo my friend👏
Do you think Roman writings of pancration and their relationship gladiators, or at their dramatization of their relation to gladiators, sort of effects the perception of what these modern day pancration enthusiasts see? Kind of like our perception of Vikngs.
Would imagine so. Nostalgia is priceless. Great question
I think you should be happy Seth did a video about it. A lot more people now have heard of it, you could make this video, and get more reach.
Good breakdown and I have a new rabbit hole to go down.
I get the frustration, the state of historical information on any social media is absolutely horrendous and martial arts are especially prone to attract amateurs or worse charlatans pretending to be experts. Seth is a good guy, but as others have already pointed out he relies entirely on the interviewees to educate both him and the audience.
I can guarantee you 'probably' that Seth wouldn't mind talking with you about what was correct and wrong to make a follow up vid tbh. Only followed the guy a short time but he seems like he really does like the world of martial arts - hes just not a critical researcher so he depends on those who are experts... which gets muddy if the experts are bs'ing themselves or were taught an offshoot like with the Pankration vid?
Seth is great but, suffers exactly from needing experts. for what is effectively a dead martial art he doesn't have that many resources to draw from to simply call one group of trainers BS over any other like say Systema or Krav Maga.
Χαίρε, Αθανάσιε!
Συνέχισε την καταπληκτική έρευνά σου!
Do you have videos on what pankration was really like, historically speaking? Has pankration changed over its history, then or now?
I would also like a book on Pankration by you. Also, even though all the mistakes and the misinformation spread throughout his video, at least he brought more awareness to the sport and ancient Greece. Now, if that's better or worse, due to the misinformation, that, i don't know.
Obviously the best case scenario would be for his "teachers" to have done some proper research, but that's not up to us.
Hi! I love ur Channel and the way you really study this martial art, have you read cestvs? Is a manga about a young boxer in b.c, but there's a character who fight pankration! And i think u should read and Make a video about it
This was fantastic, thank you, you got a sub from me ^_^
So the guy standing next to the fight is a referee? What is the stick he's holding used for? Were there throws/was picking up and slamming the opponent allowed or depicted? Anyways thanks for the video, I found your channel when searching about pankration after seeing it in assassin's creed a while back. And I want to thank you for the enlightening info, I wish your channel was easier to find when searching for pankration on youtube, I regret not having subscribed sooner. Also your name is beautiful, is it the masculine version of Athena?
I am also an Athanasios. From England, been interested in martial arts for a while. Started to learn BJJ and kick-boxing/muay Thai and just today discovered pankration existed and I have never been more proud
Hey I’m making a webcomic on martial arts called the arts of mars it’s completely satire, but the main character Mars, is a mixer of his Roman and Greek counter part Mars/Ares, his fighting style is Pankration, although my series is satire I been looking at your channel of this art and using many techniques and lore for mars to use, but at the same time like in real life if a boxer gets into a street fight don’t expect him to solely use boxing techniques or a sumo using pure sumo, a fighting is a fight you use what ever you can to win unless there’s rules to the fight. What’s your take on this?
I wish you would do an Achilles vs Chiron video from Fate Apocrypha. It’s two Pankration fighters facing off with just hands. It’s great.
I got that video suggested to me and from the tittle and thumbnail I was like "yeah sure" and didnt bother hahahha
I watch both Sensei Seth and Ramsey Dewey content. I found you after seeing your Ramsey Dewey reaction video. Sensei Seth is not very serious so I can see where he can slip up - I will be more concerned about Dewey’s mistakes. Hope to read your book one day, keep up the good work.
I always thought there was something wrong with the pankration book and Americans who get all zealous about pankration. They seem to be more interested in proving its supremacy and trying to establish it as the source of all martial arts (kinda reminds of japan's sumo supremacists) but there's really no credibility in what they say espicially when they're not even greek or can even speak greek. America has a problem in trying to declare greek antiquity as its own tradition and pretend that they're the torch bearers. I'm really glad to see this video. Its very informative and now I'm actually interested in pankration.
Does anyone where can I find full text for "On the Kicking Techniques of Pankration"?
Whether on English or Greek
Thanks for doing this! I've met Cory in Texas and he's a good guy, but he does Sanda and jiu-jitsu. When Seth brought him and Livingston on for this video I was like "um, cool didn't know Cory knew a bit of pankration". Turns out it's just three dudes blowing smoke out their butts and one guy kind of second hand huffing those fumes.
Thank you for fact checking Seth. I love his content and his energy and lessons he brings to his videos, but this doesn't mean you can spread misinformation. I'm sure he didn't mean to, but its his responsibility to set the record straight and fix mistakes he made
People should really respect something if they are going to try it is what I've learnt from watching this video, thank you sir.
I don't think he wouldn't freak out about your corrections.. He is looking for the audience but he does wants to know the reality. He corrects his pronunciation in another video. He seems open to new arts and recently took up Sumo. Thank you for the information it corrects some of my misconceptions.
I'm very interested in such an academic book by someone who understands the Ancient Greek language and is actually able to research this! Thanks for this video, Pankration is probably the most misunderstood sport of all time, at least that we know of. But so are the Ancient Greeks, too much misinformation written about them, in part due to the difficulty in translating Ancient Greek to English, where most of the linguistic nuance is completely lost as in Ancient Greek one word may need to be described with a paragraph in English to get a better understanding of the intended meaning and depth of meaning of some singular words.