NVIDIA laid out its plan to manipulate the market... Here's the proof...
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2022
- NVIDIA just had its Q2 2022 Earnings call... and Jensen laid out his plan to manipulate the market back into higher prices... listen to him for yourself in this expose.
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Hey everyone. Couple of things... One, whats with all this AMZ spam crap? Sheesh...
Second. I'm fully aware that all companies do this, I even called that out in this video. The point of this video was simply to give more information to those on the fence about when to buy a new GPU. What NVIDIA is doing here is perfectly legal within our current laws and is only questioned by personal ethics. You can choose to ignore, support, condemn etc. But arming yourself with as much information regarding the 40 series launch plan as possible is important when trying to make informed decisions on what to do with your money and when to do it. I hope this helps.
Now back to blocking these new spam bots.
Very nice and fast response ++ Jay and team :)
The spam bots are relentless. I’m sure CZcams is working on a fix though lol
I have seen almost 0 stuff in stock from amd and their gpus costing like 300 over 3090's edit:in our country..
Spam has gotten incredibly worse on facebook and youtube. They don't care about making an anti-spam filter. I wish price gouging was illegal for sales, but it's only illegal to price gouge when there's an emergency situation. Like the pandemic, some places were price gouging supplies, that was illegal
just seems like the right time for people to make the switch to AMD. freaking greed consuming NVidia, what a shame
nVidia is clearly a terrible company. Good for EVGA standing up to them with a big middle finger. I think I'm done with nVidia at this point. And yes, we SHOULD be mad at everybody.
I love what EVGA did but it will come at the cost of it's employees... There's also NO other company like them. I have EVGA in all 4 of my PCs - and no current company has the service or quality that they have.
Yup, all companies are terrible until proven otherwise and have to be proven at all times.
@@LakerTriangle evga gpus sucked. I use their power supplies tho
@@arkangeloadame4948 I've used EVGA video cards and they are rock solid. Running a RTX2060 EVGA now and it's hasn't had a glitch yet. My EVGA GTX960 is working great in the machine to my left. I also use their PSU's and will be using their MOBO's next set of upgrades as their quality is top notch.
@@arkangeloadame4948 And this is the sad truth, when the best producer of the current product sucks, then the situation has long since reached the point of no return.
_"Never waste a good crisis."_
Companies that _thrived_ due to the pandemic have now grown addicted to the growth and revenue that it generated. Rather than accept it for the glitch it was and being content with returning to the previous growth factors, they now try to _continue the growth rate_ set during Covid.
I'm not waiting for any nVidia card at this moment. I'm highly anticipating what AMD will bring next gen, though. Pricing, availability, acceptable power consumption and price/performance willing, that will be my next upgrade.
Most commonly NVIDIA totally understands that this was a temporary market situation, its investors and shareholders that want a return on their money otherwise they will pull out looking for greener pastures.
people that are still buy the product are still enabling this and it will always be like that why lower the price when people still buy it?
Due to the high power draw of the 30 series cards if the 40 series is just as power hungry can't see them being viable options during a serious rise in energy prices
As long as people are happy to pay ridiculously hyper-inflated prices this kind of scam will continue. :(
@@scyphe I wouldn't call it a scam, just be aware that legally a publicly traded companies number one concern will always be their shareholders. And its essentially impossible to develop products to Nvidias scale without public investment. Just be aware of it and understand the market still drives +95% of the rates.
This crap makes me really root for AMD to put NVidia in their place. I hope that day comes soon, because it will be much deserved. Seems like this may have played a big role in EVGA cutting ties with NVidia outright.
Radeon cards have been the better deal since the 5xxx series. I bought a 5600xt from newegg in 202 for $265 and it came with three games I wanted. Or, I could have bought a vanilla 2060 for over $300, and it perform worse categorically. The 6800xt to this day still trades blows with the 3080 ti, while still being hundreds of dollars cheaper.
Gamers are drinking the coolaid. Yes, the 10 series cards were great. But everyone started with the RTX and DLSS despite it all being infancy technology, and now Radeon has better versions of BOTH while cheaper.
More the reason im happy to own 6800xt with msrp. Nvidia can go to hell with 30 series as with 40. I can wait 2 years.
amd is the same thing, did u see them available at first launch?
@@thebeatles9 I've always been a Nvidia and intel fan boy. But since I've got my steam deck with a little 4 core Ryzen APU and noticed it will play the same games my 3080 + 11900k will although not at as high resolution and settings. But the fact that this little 15w chip can preform so well compared to the 800+ watts my gaming PC pulls is crazy. I have a GPD win 3 with the i7 and it doesn't even compare to the steam deck although it's clocked higher, has more cores and draws more power it's not even in the same league with Ryzen. With all that said my next system will be all team RED! I'm even considering selling my current system and building a 6800xt + R7 5800x. Might even splurge for a 5900 or 5950x instead of waiting for next gen graphics to come out.
@@dayathor amd was significantly more pro consumer these past two years. Night and day
Man, supporting AMD over the past few years with CPU/GPU growth has been one of the best decisions I’ve made even at a moral stand point. This is just shady on Nvidia, anything for more profits.
AMD is just as greedy and shady as Nvidia and/ or Intel. And I say that as someone who has switched from Intel to AMD, not only for my rig, but also for my girlfriends. Her's is lower tier, but still doing fine. I'd still buy Nvidia GPU's since, well, RTX is pretty awesome when supported. So is DLSS.
@@terrible2u so AMD also bribed companies to lock their competition out of the market?
@@terrible2u AMD cards support raytracing and the 7000 series is going to have vastly increased raytracing performance. they also have FSR 2.0 which is getting better and better and very close to DLSS. nvidia has nvenc and some other gimmicks but for the average user/gamer there is no advantage to them. the software stack with AMD is far superior. the control menus are so far superior it's not even funny, it makes a big difference in the user experience. rdna 3 is going to be SICK.
@@Artcore103 don't forget they are going to release d
Fsr 2.1
Yep. I built my first serious PC using FX even when every source said they sucked but I didn't care because the price to performance was incredible. I stuck with them through the years and now look at them. Kings. Current PC has a 3900XT and 5700XT GPU. No blue or green for me, no thanks.
Artificial scarcity, direct to miner selling, overpricing, delaying releases Nvidia has done it all shady company the greed has gotten to them since crypto they tasted triple profits and can't go back.
Its been like this since forever, and amd did it to when it was on top whit 3800hd and 4800hd.
Nothing new tbh.
And the worst thing, outside of specific works and RTX, AMD cards were better this time
The cliffs notes of this video.
well it is a publicly owned company.. So they have responsibilities to make profit.
So silly really.
This is why it is so important that other companies with competing tech exist. We consumers can only hope that AMD and even Intel keep advancing their tech enough to create competitive products and show NVidia they can't just do how they please.
That's the problem though. Intel is just as bad if not worse than Nvidia and AMD won't do anything to lose what they've gained since Ryzen came out. They're probably all in league together making it easier to manipulate the market. It's like they're taking turns screwing us over.
@@adamcrux6829 Good News: If they had explicit communications to that affect, then that could be an anti-trust suit waiting to happen. Bad News: It's unlikely that anything was explicit or at least if there was explicit agreements and communication, it is unlikely to be exposed.
@@adamcrux6829 Intel has actually done a lot of favorable things for the opensource community, so I have mixed feelings there
@@TechxGuyxJames The thing is, they don't need to closely communicate, they just wait for their respective competitor to launch a new GPU and decide then how much they can squeeze out for theirs.
As long as Nvidia launches the 4000s first and establish their price range and what to expect for lower end 4000s, AMD will simply try to beat them ever so slightly to keep their profit margins as high as possible. AMD historically was hardly ever in a position to dictate the prices duo to worse performance, which is the "ultimate" metric in this discussion.
Prices are largely arbitrary as we have learned the past few years.
After the crisis the perceiption is so shifted, people are suddenly fine with +~$100-$150 between 3070 and 2070 for example and they don't stop there, the next gen 4070 was rebranded 4080 12GB so they could justify a $900 price tag and just went with another 16GB 4080 to gauge another $300 for a total of $1200.
There is no way AMD won't at least charge ~$1000 for their competitor card. AMD possibly has once again better deals but momentarily it won't change the pricing.
Also what should we expect for lower Nvidia cards? I say the final 4070 will go for no less than $650 MSRP. What's the low end entry card going to be? $400?
@@brohvakiindova4452 Hence why I said "Bad news: It's unlikely anything was explicit". As long as they aren't explicitly communicating with each other to fix the market prices, it's unlikely any sort of anti-trust suit would stand a chance. This type of economic meta-gaming where they drastically increase prices knowing the competition is likely to seize the opportunity to raise prices too is entirely legal as far as I know despite it's implied anti-competitive nature.
Artificially restricting supply is what all the cool CEOs are doing now. It's disgusting and infuriating 🤬
oh common that's why evga is saying fuck it to nvidia gpu making
We gave them the power by letting big business buy the politicians necessary to give them Intellectual Property rights that give them the monopoly power necessary to do this. Democrats and Republicans are both on board with letting big business have this power over everyone. IP laws are now the biggest threat to our future and people have no functional understanding of why. This issue right here is one of them, and is only a drop in the bucket.
Yep, oil companies, car manufacturers, clothing brands and now Nvidia too
you just described capitilim in general
@@NeoSpLoLegends Happens worse in socialism though. Every complaint people have about capitalism is worse, multiple times over, in socialism. Ever notice that there are more bread lines in socialism than capitalism? Government likes to "ration/restrict market access" while "Free-Market Capitalism" expands it. But the critical thing to understand is that capitalism/socialism are less about markets and more about production and who owns it. Open/Free versus Closed/Regulated Markets is what people mostly complain about, they have just been tricked into calling everything they don't like capitalism. USA is far more socialist now than it used to be... notice how problems are growing the more socialist we get? Yea, not mistake or mystery.
Prices for the 30 series are still way too high in the mid to low range, this means the 40 series is gonna be grossly priced.
how when the 30 series is at msrp I mean, the 1080ti didn't stay at it's msrp for six months, and nobody complained
@@eclisis5080 No they are not you muppet, they are still asking like 650 Euros for a 3060Ti lol
Yep, like Jay says, I'm not paying MSRP for a 2 year old card! The cheapest 3080 in Australia is still around $1200.
Agreed. I hope that they just anticipate prices continuing to go down a certain amount anyway by the time things launch and are compensating for it, but I'm not sure. Dude, if 3060's stay at $400, the 4000 series is going to be absolute robbery of the consumer. But if we get say, 50%+ gains and those cards taper to $300 new and the 4060 is like $450, thats still not great, but seems reasonable compared to the much higher alternative...
@@97MrBlues maybe blame where you are from, the 3060ti is going for $400 rn
All this is going to do is give AMD more chances to sell, as their price/performance is so much better now, especially in the midrange.
I agree, I was waiting for reviews of the RTX 4070 or 4080, but this is kind of making me lean towards potentially buying the AMD RX 7000 series, of course after I see the benchmarks of all 3, RTX 3000, 4000 and RX 7000 compared to each other.
I was planning to buy my GPU around Mid Jun of 2023, but it seems that I may actually have to wait until Late 2023 or even Mid 2024 -_-
Edit: This is why people need to partially support and celebrate Intel coming in as a 3rd Competitor to shake up the market, but we'd probably only see them be competitive around 5 years from now in 2027 or 2028
Yeah, but fanboys will be fanboys.
I returned my 3090 that I bought right before prices dropped, and found a good deal on a 6900XT. As far as I can tell there is zero performance difference and the 6900XT was way cheaper.
I’m starting to really wonder why people prefer Nvidia cards over AMD ones.
@@SettlingAbyss96 All in one for content creation and gaming ( CZcamsrs), Nvidia CUDA engine is much more widely used in Editing NLE's that leverage the gpu, Image editing is using more and more AI which is accelerated via gpu, encoding etc..NVIDIA is the swiss army of video performance. As much as I hate to admit, because of their greedy " manipulative " antics!
Nvidia don't care. AMD has such a low market share, including laptop integrated graphics, that Nvidia believe people will still buy Nvidia (and rightfully so, because that's basically how it is if you look at the broad masses)
Who would have thought, that just over a week later, the biggest 40 series news would be that the largest Nvidia board partner would NOT be making any 40 series graphics cards. Or ANY series graphics cards in the foreseeable future.
My respect to you for continuing to speak out against companies shady practices.
Honestly, I'm kinda shocked that he's still not on Nvidia's shit-list... he's been calling their sorry ass out for the past 2 years already, and lord knows big companies are quick to put people on their shit-list when they get called out one too many times.
If Jay ever gets blacklisted by Nvidia, that's when we'll know for sure they have skeletons on their closet that they don't want us to find out
@@retromastery7010 why do you care you'll still buy their stuff and watch videos with nvidia products in them supporting those products by viewing the content based around it. Also getting angry at nvidia for selling products at insane prices when people were buying at that price like it was crack. If you had a company and your customers were buying your product at 3x the price you wouldn't take advantage and profit? Yes you would and you know it. Keep supporting nvidia like you know you will and keep watching nvidia videos supporting more nvidia content for more nvidia... :)
Aw, did nVidia get addicted to selling GPUs by the truckload to cryptominers for double and triple the price? That's one of the many problems with corporations, they don't see the profit bump from the pandemic as a temporary but good (for them) thing, they expect to grow from that point rather than what their pre-pandemic baseline was.
Its more they are required to work in the short term because investors demand the stock go up. I dont think these huge companies are that stupid, its just that they have to appease investors and it is a silly little dance they have to do
@@THEpicND agreed. The companies are not that stupid. But the greed of the investors is always insatiable and that drives all of the company decisions. They will never do anything for the "good of the consumer" that's just the nature of the beast. All you can do as a consumer is way your options. Choose the Lesser of 2 evils.
Pretty much what the guy above me said. They're trying to please investors. Number must go up
@@THEpicND Right, unfortunately short term profit is more important and everybody knows that NVIDIA is in a tight spot right now, so investors are scared. This call was just the CEO coming out and saying "Its okay people, we have all this 30 series inventory but and we're just gonna trickle it out until the perfect time to release 40 series comes along, then keep selling 30 series at MSRP lol" so that everyone would calm down and stop panic-selling their NVIDIA stocks haha
Not at double price for cryptominers but without the middle men and warranties!! Even better!
Well, wages aren't going up enough to offset the rising cost of literally everything (and haven't matched cost of living for almost 20 yrs now), so Nvidia's smooth brained plan is to basically price the very people (gamers for the most part) that helped them build their empire, out of market. 👏👏👏 Good job Nvidia. Good job. Freaking weasels man. All of these huge corps are nothing but weasels nowadays.
I agree completely. All it would take is for one of the big manufacturers to throw the community a bone with some reasonable pricing and they would get the support of a large group of consumers who are willing to spend for their products. But no....they have to try to maximize profits immediately to appease their investors while fucking us as much as possible.
corporations have always been weasels, is not a bug on the system, is a feature, to benefit them.
@@crossefire01 And what would "the support of a large group of consumers" get them? They have to try to maximize profits, they are legally required to do that. That's how companies work, you should never expect anything else.
I've always been loyal to Nvidia , but not anymore, I was specing out a new GeForce GPU maybe a RTX 3070 but I'm switching over to AMDs now, I'll spec out a Radeon RX 6800 XT. Bye Nvidia, Hello AMD.
It's not gonna happen, 4080 will be $700 and this video is bs.
As someone who's stuck with Nvidia for as long as I've built my own computer....
I'd love to see AMD do to Nvidia what they've done with Intel in the cpu market.
Competition is great for us.
Radeon cards have been the better deal since the 5xxx series. I bought a 5600xt from newegg in 2020 for $265 and it came with three games I wanted. Or, I could have bought a vanilla 2060 for over $300, and it perform worse categorically. The 6800xt to this day still trades blows with the 3080 ti, while still being hundreds of dollars cheaper.
Gamers are drinking the coolaid. Yes, the 10 series cards were great. But everyone started with the RTX and DLSS despite it all being infancy technology, and now Radeon has better versions of BOTH while cheaper.
AMD and NVIDIAs CEOs are related to each other, they are literally family. There is no competition.
@@nightdark2616 plausible, but the converse could be true: sibling etc rivalry can be the fiercest of all.
@@thebeatles9 This isn't a disney movie, don't count on speculation. They don't need to communicate decisions (which would be illegal), Nvidia sets the ridiculous price and AMD beats them slightly. Top end performance is valued a lot (too much) in the gaming scene so Nvidia still holds ~80% market share.
I'd still say Nvidia has historically been the one with the better software. They always have had the new stuff first and AMD copied them - basically always worse until recently.
I've been running AMD gpus for about a decade and have very horrible memories of driver issues, cards running extremely hot and straight up games not running with my gpu.
I know exactly that this is no longer such a big deal but it definitely impacts how people make future decisions. Especially when you switched to Nvidia and had no more issues in the past.
People are very biased when it comes to stuff like this, I really hope AMD keeps making tough competition because, even if the prices won't drastically lower, at least we have more choices in every gen.
@@thebeatles9 Pretty sure amd doesn't support dlss at all. It supports fsr, but so does nvidia. The other feature they both support is ray tracing but amd is far behind nvidia on that as well. So no, amd doesn't really have better versions of any of those add ons. But yes their newer cards are good raw performance.
I'm really questioning my Nvidia loyalty after listening to that call and seeing what they had to say. The way you broke it down just made too much sense, I don't know if I can continue to support the way they take advantage of the fans, especially the die-hard fans that DID pay ridiculous prices during the pandemic, only to find out they were price gouging us during the whole pandemic. They could have flooded the market and sold even more product, but they only saw dollar signs.
Radeon has had the better products since the 5xxx series. AMD has always been the underdog, and even when they are on top they never forget where they started, both CPU and GPU. Nividia is dead to me, and intel would be except that they actually learn from their mistakes.
I've never felt any brand "loyalty" to Nvidia, but I pretty much always bought their stuff because it was simply the best performing. However, this situation is really souring me on them and it may well just be time to buy amd on principle.
Same, especially after seeing how they treat their AIB's as well.
You shouldn’t be loyal to a brand anyways. They aren’t loyal to you, so why be loyal to them. Make the best decision, not a braindead decision.
My next card won't be a nvidia if that make any difference.
As much as I get that this is legal and typical, I can't help but feel nothing but hatred toward nVidia after they were so happy to dump all of their inventory to crypto-miners while completely disregarding the gaming community who had been an incredibly large portion of their profits up until crypto. They turned their back on that community without a second thought. Now that they are back to needing gamers to buy their products, they aren't throwing them a bone to apologize for their abandonment. Instead, they are trying to squeeze every ounce of fucking us that they can before pretending to give a shit about us again as their main consumer base. I'm not against capitalism at all. I'm all for it. But, managing your relationship with your customer base is part of capitalism. I've been an nVidia customer for decades. But now, I kind of just hope they get fucked. I'm not saying that AMD is a customer first company, but I think I'm going to switch to AMD just to take my paltry few dollars out of nVidia's pocket. Fuck nVidia.
its an old old story, its almost how most modern powerfull companys behave they come from humble origins and then get too big for there boots and forget how they got there.
CD PROJECT RED is a prime example.
I'll cosign that message.
Whilst as a consumer I'm not interested in purchasing an inferior product, if AMD is relatively comparable in performance I will not be purchasing Nvidia anytime soon.
just because something is legal does not make it right and just because its illegal does not make it wroung, its about good will and this is not information that supports that and only someone that works for NVIDIA is going to think its ok.
@@stephenmeinhold5452 What happens is that over time, Big Partners take chunk of the company and put pressure to change things. That happens a lot when Venture Capital gets involved on new companies, eventually they end up controlling it
@@JoTokutora that is exactly what happened to CD PROGECT RED. but thay had been given so many donations and support they did not have to involve the shareholders they were getting money from sony and microsoft and a grant worth millions but i think the people at the top got greedy.
It's videos like this when you can tell someone truly cares about their craft/industry. Thank you for taking the time to break this down into laymans terms and for bring this to our attention. Love your stuff man. There's been a lot of things that I got brave enough to try because of the way you explain things such as the overclock video you did or the water cooling video you did. Keep it up!
This is normal modern capitalism and price anchoring. It even makes sense (to a degree) because money is required to make more fabs. Consumers will never pay the base cost of an item because that would kill the company making it. DRAM vendors OTOH... they've been going way beyond that and have even been convicted in US courts twice which means it HAD to be extreme greed and collusion. The real issue is companies like TSMC moving too fast for consumers where everyone is humping legs for the newest process that can't possibly meet demand. That's where Intel was much more conservative trying to keep supply high by only deploying new processes when it can actually meet demand.
Yeah, thanks God there's still a few people on the side of the consumers.
Is a fucking shame watching how these companies went to manipulate this mess of a market for their benefit and nothing more, while knowing they are hurting the consumer and selling GPUs at more expensive prices every year even if they are not worth that money in comparison to what we used to get when it was about giving the same value for performance years ago, not just milking the consumers.
Yep just started follow cuz you can just tell he is genuine
Sounds like a whole lot of cope from Jensen. There will come a point where he'll have no choice but to start dumping the old cards about whatever price they'll get sold at because the shareholders are telling him to release the damn 40 series because further delays will really hurt profit since AMD doesn't suffer as much from an inventory glut as nvidia has, hence they won't need to delay their launch as much as Nvidia.
I agree John Johnson.
Nvidia is acting like it's in a monopoly. If AMD times and prices things right they can pull off one of the biggest customer conversions in history. Similar performance (especially ray-tracing) would be enough to convince all of the fence-sitters.
AMD already has great ray-tracing with the 6xxx series. there are just some games that are "tuned" to function better on Nvidia nardware, like cyberpunk. It's at the driver level and at the engine level. I wouldn't be surprised if some companies were intentionally throttling performance on AMD systems.
@@thebeatles9 " I wouldn't be surprised if some companies were intentionally throttling performance on AMD systems."
Same.
Amd have been working super hard on driver recently even intel got that memo and have realised drivers is more than half the battle.
@@thebeatles9 The only issue I had with AMD's 6xxx series is exactly those few games that didn't function as well with ray-tracing.
Granted the pricing was similar due to the GPU shortages but now you can grab a 6900xt for less than a 3080.
I'll definitely be looking to AMD's 7xxx line-up to replace my gtx 1070, especially since I'm running a 5900x.
So, you're saying that I'm just as good buying an amd graphics card?
Sorry, I'm new to the pc building community and I'm currently looking for which parts to buy, so that's why I'm asking.
I was planning on buying an RTX 3060 before I watched this video, but now I'm not sure anymore...
Based Jay giving econ lessons about the problems of printing money in the middle of calling out corporate market manipulation. Two thumbs up.
You most definitely have interpreted Nvidia's plans correctly. The sheer greed of this company and it's CEO will forever haunt me. There is one other company that would compare as being over the top greedy and that is Apple. The only way to control Nvidia is if they lost business share to competitors. Let's all hope this will happen very soon.
I think the used market with ETH 2.0 coming and AMD's gpu release could cause Nvidia's plan to backfire a bit. Nobody should be buying 2yr old hardware at msrp. It should be heavily discounted.
Miners are already dumping full rigs and their mined/unused cards on ebay right now. They're no longer asking for their investment back in price several sellers have listings for $1.2K buy it now which is pretty crazy considering they probably paid x4 of that for the whole rig.
AGREE!
It sucks cuz I just bought a evga 3070 for a little over $500
Heavily discounted is a harsh word. Lets say a 4090 has 80% the power of a 3090. If a 4090 costs 1499$, which will most likely happen, then a 3090 is still worth around 800$.Thats what Jay means at 8:00
At the same time there are 2 GPUs i think, that are hitting certain performance points. The 3060Ti for 1080p and the 3080 for 1440p. As long as you don't upgrade your Monitor to a higher resolution, then you don't need a new Card for at least a few generations. Just like the GTX 1060 for lower-end Gaming.
@@gucky4717 ok so if a 4070 is the same performance as a 3090 as rumored but with better ray tracing who is buying a 3090 for $800. I don't even think the 4070 will be $800 but I could be wrong.
This is what Intel did a few years back with CPUs and it kept on hapening till AMD amped up the competion. We need a good GPU competitor.
We already have it but you all simp for nvidia regardless.
You wont get one... this is all part of THE grand agenda mate... ESG over shareholders now mate, sorry
@@MiGujack3 you suggest just simping for the duopoly instead then? He means a competitor not an assistant
@@MiGujack3 we don't. That is the issue. AMD is constantly playing catchup with Nvidia. Not in terms of raw performance maybe but technology. Gsync vs Freesync, ray tracing, DSLL and so forth.
They have to pull a Ryzen to have any effect really.
Full disclosure / TL:DR- I've had stocks in both companies for some 15 years and I think the best is yet to come for us consumers.
This isn't "what Intel did". In 2016 Intel came out and told investors that they were having manufacturing limitations and were in the process of designing and building new fabs. Intel squeezed a lot of blood from the 14nm and 10nm rocks and it is really quite impressive when you think about it. We went from 45nm architecture to sub 10nm in just a few short years and Intel by its very nature of business is going to be a little more delayed considering the circumstances.
They have two fabs in AZ that are coming online and should be ready for production sometime next year or early 2024. In 2024 they have two more fabs coming online in OH. There are three more fabs underway or in planning in Europe. AMD had the advantage of contracting out its manufacturing to a company familiar with these processes thanks to their business with Samsung and the likes that really innovated the sub 10nm space. Intel, being a largely vertically integrated company and having government contracts that require manufacturing within the US and certain European countries (Berry Amendment Compliant), had their hands tied until these multi-year design, construction and build-out could be accomplished which can take years just for the approval.
I honestly believe that we are going to see Intel come out of the corner swinging here over the next two or three years as these new fabs come online. AMD has done a great job capitalizing on Intel's stagnation but when you look at what Intel has been able to do with its 12th gen on 10nm and what 13th gen purports to do also on 10nm, can you imagine the lessons learned and how they might apply as Intel finally gets its 7nm and 5nm underway?
It's only been two short years since AMD took the title and Intel has remained largely competitive. Prior to 2017 the only real argument for AMD was that it was what you could afford. From 2017-2020 AMD was a fair bargain. When you look at all sales and not just consumer retail sales Intel is still the big boy on the block and one of the benefits of their vertical integration was they still had inventory when everything AMD was scarce for a while as supply dwindled during increasing demand during late 2020 and early 2021.
"Natural" supply and demand only happens when there's a competitive market. NVidia controls 80% of the market, so it's almost a monopoly.
Try an AMD card, they are awesome. My 6800XT is delivering as good performance as my wives RTX 3080 at 1440p. So while Nvidia has a great share of the market, there is a very valid alternative. So it is not at all a monopoly.
@Ericdon't know how it's where you are but here Amd is almost half the price of the similar performance Nvidia card.
It's been like that for years, of course that doesn't matter much to most people who just blindly buy Nvidia because 10 years ago they tried AMD and didnt like it.
@Eric bruh I'm looking at the prices right now and they are how I'm saying it lol. You know there is different parts of the world outside that are different?
The 3060 was like 800-900, the 3090 non ti was 2200$ a couple months back, while the 6600 xt was 500 when I got that.
@Eric that's store prices as sold by official suppliers, not scalped cards sold on second hand markets lol. As said, not everywhere is the same as where you are.
@Eric the 6600 is 250 that's way lower than it's MSRP while the 3050 is more expensive I will say the mid range GPUs Amd is better
I know this is fairly normal business practice, but I'm hoping AMD throws a 17 foot wrench in NVidia's plan. I've been using NVidia cards for decades, but I'm leaning pretty heavy towards AMD these days for a couple reasons - one of them being they seem to value the customer (me) more than NVidia and Intel.
Well, no one saw RX 6000 coming back with a full line up of products from top to bottom = RX 6400 to RX 6950 = RX6700 was added in July of this Year = AMD is still releasing new cards at Will
im Pretty much on pair with my mates 3080 on 1440p in the Same Game. I Run all AMD 3700x @4,8 and a 6800XT which runs just fine. BF2042 1440p Upscaled to 4k around 120-140fps with minimum Drops.
Have been Running AMD for the Last few Years yes the GPU´s and CPU werent that good in Like 2010-2016 But after that it went Pretty Solid for AMD and the Pricing is just Fair. Got my 6800XT for MSRP on day 30 after the Release.
AMD pulls shady shit as well. Jay made a video on it. Both brands are run by investors profits and you’d be blind to think one is truly for the consumer.
companies are not your friends, you can see AMD are also slowly raising their MSRP now that their products are competitive again in performance
@RedNoise Just send my 6800XT back because it was crashing the whole time. I am going to buy a Nvidia GPU if i get my money back...
AMD seems to be bringing some serious heat to Intel in the CPU market. I think they'll be giving Nvidia a run for their money soon enough. I wanted a 4080 but if I can get an AMD card with similar performance for less money I'd be dumb as hell to spend more for the same thing. Brand loyalty is great but I'm not interested in getting screwed on pricing because of it.
This is one of the many reasons that I don't have brand loyalty to any brand. Eventually they all disappoint me.
They have no loyalty to you so why have loyalty to them
a 6900 xt will be good for another 2 yrs in the top 20th and the price is great right now.. so id prefer staying with amd.. dont get me wrong nvidia makes great products but amd is catching up now faster then ever..
Hope the New AMD Video Cards be as great as the new Nvidia Cards.
If Intel sells a cheaper 3070 performing card I will buy it because AMD and Nvidia get greedier and greedier.
Thank you, Jay and the team. For all these efforts and dedication!
I still have a 1080ti and didnt accept the scalper pricing of the 30 series and will not be buying one slightly discounted at the end of 30 series life. It would have to be at least 50% lower than original RRP Brand New. Will wait for a sensibly priced 40 series card. No rush for me. My 1080ti STILL runs the latest games well at 1440P. Great video as usual Jay
Just buy a Radeon. Radeon cards have been the better deal since the 5xxx series. I bought a 5600xt from newegg in 2020 for $265 and it came with three games I wanted. Or, I could have bought a vanilla 2060 for over $300, and it perform worse categorically. The 6800xt to this day still trades blows with the 3080 ti, while still being hundreds of dollars cheaper.
Gamers are drinking the coolaid. Yes, the 10 series cards were great. But everyone started with the RTX and DLSS despite it all being infancy technology, and now Radeon has better versions of BOTH while cheaper.
@@thebeatles9 Only reason i would get an rtx would be because of dlss.
Yeah, i doubt your 1080ti runs 2022 games at 1440p. On ultra low settings, maybe. Just buy used 3070/80, in my country you could get one for less than $450 lmfao, from a miner, yes, but with a warrantx
Just ordered a RTX 3090 Ti Founders Edition MSRP $1999.99 for $1099.99. So $900 off at BestBuy Still available by the way.
Honestly a good nic 2080 is starting to look better and better.
I commend your coverage of nvidia’s latest conference call. It showed what I’ve always known nvidia to be: a company of weasels. Unfortunately when companies like nVidia & Apple make products that don’t have like for like competition they can get away with shit
@Lurch7861 that crap "amd drivers are bad" is as old as GPUs themselves. I have AMD (ATi) GPUs since I switched from the diamond stealth III (S3 Savage 4) to a ATi 9600. It is not like I never had issues, but I had 2 baddies who was using nvidia since TNT 2 and we had our fair share of problem on both companies with drivers. The main problem back in the day was how quickly they released a fix for a critical failure driver, which was not that big deal, we just installed the old one and waited.
The way I see it, some nvidia guys where forced to switch with the mining rush and when a problem appeared they come forth screaming "I KNEW IT! IT IS GARBAGE!" or something, ignoring the fact that the problem is not the GPU core but the partner who made the actual card and can happen no matter the GPU it sports.
@Lurch7861 One thing to remember: AMD sells lot more Gaming GPU's then Nvidia does. In the PC Market they just reached a point where AMD and NVIDIA are about to be peers again. But there are around 40 Million Units of PS5 and Xbox X/S out there. The Switch as an Nvidia Device is coping with it, with 111Million sells, but the PS4 alone has sold over 117M. AMD is pulling ahead and the high GPU Prices for PC is an advantage for AMD.
@Lurch7861 I play in 1080p (have no choice) so going to 1440p will be an upgrade for me not even concerned with going higher.
perfect example of why anti-trust laws need to be enforced or you get monopolies like Apple and Nvidia. They will control the supply, the price and the demand otherwise. You know what else helps? I will get flamed for this but, voting for politicians that are against this type of anti-consumer tactics and pass laws that ban it. Yeah free market blah blah blah, but when the free market becomes out of control like they currently are, it's time for regulation to sit their asses down!
A really big part of the problem to keep in mind is scale, which is basically just that we're approaching the point to megaprojects where it'll take government money to do anything--in fact it quite literally already has, as Biden just signed some bill allocating our tax dollars for this private profit company opening up a new chip fab. It bugs me because it's taking money out of my paycheck to basically enable these same corporations to make even more money for themselves and hoping I at least don't get fucked raw when I empty more of my wallet out to get it.
So the issue is, that you really can't just open up your own chip fab. It takes billions of dollars and years of planning, something that no upstart business is ever going to have, and that's part of the problem. These really large, suitably complex companies then get boiled down to these like one or two complexes that control everything. Apple or Windows, Radeon or noVidya, Intel or AMD, and then it creates this illusion of "competition" where it's basically just the same clique of people owning and controlling everything from a neofeudal standpoint. It's just that some of them are way more naked in their real intentions. It gets messier when it becomes an issue of national security, like the minute QPUs become a thing and we have real quantuum processing, goodbye to all 256 encryption and that alone has real dramatic implications which makes me suspect they might be slow rolling it for that reason (I'm trying to figure out which companies other than IBM are going to roll it out). Likewise, all those chip manufacturers have really dramatic security implications for the increasingly high tech focused military apparatus that is piloting drones, and all this shit traces back to DARPA money like the way facebook does or the way the IC embedded within USAF was caught sock puppeting Twitter accounts which is the main reason Twitter got pushed so hard to begin with, is that Twitter is the psyop platform and Facebook and Google the universal surveillance ones. FB itself I'm positive grew out of the TIA/IAO DARPA project back in 2002.
So when you have that kind of a setup it is basically impossible for real competition to ever exist either. Given the behind the scenes stuff with the mainland Chinese, I'd be curious to see what the current events situation is in the shadows regarding all these Taiwanese tech companies when a lot of it is still getting made in China, but I suspect the Chinese elites are as connected as everybody else in that small clique for billionaires and trillionaires.
We are in the middle of a recession with inflation and cost of living going through the roof. I think Nvidia are in for a shock.
There always will be people buying the new top-ends, just as many struggling to survive the upcoming time, others have plenty of income to buy em anyway.
@@karremania not really there aren't many people that can afford a $1200 gpu. It's nice to eat but when you have to decide between paying for rent, food or a shiny gpu, survival kicks in.
@@karremania Yea that isn't actually true. The data is out there and already people that make even $200k a year are cutting back on spending on luxury goods such as gaming and hardware for gaming.
@@Kirito14682 You missing the picture of difference, the gap between rich and poor hasnt been greater then the late fall in 2005. But we will see, time will tell if they still get them on big profits.
the electric bill here in sweden broke the roof last winter =( my dad paid over 900 if i converted it right 😥 and this winter it will be even higher
Honestly, this video alone reaffirms my respect to Jay and his team. This is risky shit but still they went out to share the info out there.
Martin shkreli is worse or his company that increased the price of a anti cancer drug by 700% just for profit
I bought a 1080Ti and 1070Ti in 2019 for $600 and $360 respectively, and I thought those prices were HIGH. My budget for a top-tier graphics card is about $400-$500, so apparently I'm going to be running my 1080Ti and 1070Ti well into the future. (Two different computers)
Still brilliant cards both of them... I have a 2070s which is similar in performance to the 1080ti and I'm not buying either the 3000 or 4000... not unless im getting one second hand for about 300AU
@Watching CZcams Daily There were a LOT of "good deals" on cards when I was shopping, but they all kept being cancelled by ebay after I made a purchase. I probably "bought" 20 graphics cards, and the 1080Ti wound up having to come from Craigslist, instead.
I realise that this is just how business works but it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth, I'm hoping AMD can bring out something special in their new GPU's because I would like to buy one if it's competitive. Nvidia has really rubbed me the wrong way in these past couple years.
If you think AMD is doing anything different, it's only because they're behind Nvidia in the GPU space. Just look at their CPU suave VS Intel to see how they would operate if their roles were reversed.
@@bladactania yeah, AMD does it too. None of this bothers me, but I still might buy rDNA3 if it's good simply because I'm not going to drop the price of an entire computer on a GPU. I have a 3080 now. It all comes down to whoever has the best price to performance. I'm going to build a new machine probably in a year when ddr5 is mature and I'll consider AMD Intel and Nvidia for my CPU and GPU. AMD got me on my 3900x because of Intel crapping on my last two PCs but who ever has the better product will get my money
@Varocka; AMD already had better price-performance this and last gen. People just buy Nvidia because of their PR, it's stupid.
@@bladactania AMD has been completely destroying Intel with CPUs for the second generation in a row now. In every single aspect, including price-performance.
@@0002pA the last time i checked the 12400f priced at 150-170 euro was going toe to toe in performance with 30% more power efficiency for i5 against 5600x at 400-440 euros when they were released.. wtf are you talking about.. AMD is an overpriced over stuttering TRASH brand!
@@bladactania and that's why competition is always good for consumers
This is why competition is so important - hopefully AMD (and maybe Intel) can do better. It's a bit frustrating that nVidia can effectively ignore AMD right now.
Hopefully AMD can do to Nvidia with RDNA 3 what they did to Intel with Zen 3.
@@calebsmith7179 yeah, Intel is still crying that they are better, and amd don't/didnt affect them. They are powerful, but their power is slipping away.
I want, same happening with nvidia. Even right now they are overpriced. I can buy a 6900xt for 1150 cad, around the same price for 3080. And 6900xt leaves 3090 and ti in dust in some criteria.
3090 sells around 1400 to 1500cad
Indeed competition is key but we consumers are also to blame, by letting ourselves fall into fanboyish wars of red versus green and put brand loyalty over facts and reality.
@@Argoon1981 I wouldn't say I don't have a favorite company. But it depends on affordability (im broke) and their past actions.
They can ignore AMD and Intel at their own peril.
This artificial scarcity tricks make you hope Intel finally gets their game together. We can't depend on AMDs 'goodwill' alone to correct these shitty practices. I hope holding on to all those cards will hurt their sales and rise their costs for storage enough to show them their short terms mentality failings.
Intel has a huge opportunity here. They can swoop in and take losses on cards for however long they want (they are intel ffs). They can build their brand around being the most pro-gamer company, selling super-cheap cards to entry level gamers, while they fix their shit and then launch the "big boy" sick demon card that blows everyone away. Sure they may eat the losses for the next 5-10 years, but will continue to establish themselves as the defacto "king of silicon" and think of the branding deals and sponsorships and being able to do more than a shitty iris Xe chip.
Intel is the greediest of the 3 companies. Intel products all have a brand tax just like asus pc components. Intel will see they can get away with it and try to rob us blind right along with nvidia. I just need amd to get their driver situation down cause every one in 3 driver updates will mess something up to the point were a downgrade is needed
Jay, if you are correct then that would be a cost of roughly $1600 for the 4080, and $2400 for the 4090. Those prices are probably +- $200, but I’m tried of NVIDIA’s tricks and lack of care for their gamers, not just this but everything as a whole. I went AMD during the 3090 series with a 6900XT and actually have had better luck and less problems doing this. Now, when AMD gets back to playing their games with their customers, I’ll switch back. Competition is great! I do agree that the 40 series will be later, but before Christmas.
About three years ago I gave up on trying to keep up with NVIDIA cards and their pricing. I looked towards AMD for something that was more cost effective and got an RX 570 to start for like 150 bucks. Wasn't disappointed. I built a new computer recently and opted for the 6750 XT. I am most definitely pleased with its performance.
6750 xt… nice 👌
6600 xt on my secondary pc and honestly it works better than I thought. Once my 2080 super can't keep up I will buy a high end AMD. Ditching nVidia for good now. More people should stop buying them as well.
The 6750 XT is a beast
Producers are responsible for improving products, consumers are responsible for demanding lower price. We can only ever vote with our wallets.
Bought RX480 8GB for Witcher 3 back in the day, still going strong :P entry level by now, sure, but there are tons of classic games better than current AAA.
Nvidia is the Apple of graphics cards :D sure they make nice cards, but you definitely can get 80% of it for 50% price elsewhere if you pace yourself a bit.
Jensen: "If you don't buy last gen at MSRP or higher you won't get the next one." Budget conscious gamers: "Your terms are acceptable."
@@mikfhan exactly. I’m super not down to be price gouged on purpose. They are thinking everyone is going to keep shopping for pc parts like they did during covid and were stuck at home while there was a crypto surge going on. Hard pass. Not going to support that with my wallet. My 1660gtx is still enough to play most games at decent frames and 1440p. Sure, I WANT a new card and better frames, etc, but I don’t NEED a new card, and I’m not trying to spend the cost of an entire console of just one pc component, and then I would need a new PSU just to push the wattage these fucking cards take now too. More and more has me thinking of leaning toward an AMD card the next time I decide to build a pc.
This is a good time for AMD to leverage nvidia's stagnation for the rest of the year.
im moving to amd next after im done with my 3090 im sick of nvidias bullshit nonsense they did this to themselves
not sure if they could, Nvidia is not Intel... but hey, hopefully they could, that way at least we have better competition if not better prices.
Also that sweet open-source driver. I can never go back to all the Nvidia black screens all the time after doing an update it seems like Nvidia is too dumb to realize the community can help maintain their drivers if it's open-source.
Thank you for putting this video out.. You are informing us at the cost fo risking your relationship with nvidia, which is admirable..
I myself have noticed the pricing games that nvidia is playing, riding on the anticipation of 40 series as of now..
after being unable to get my hands on rtx's for a decent price ( or at all for that matter) i'm shifting my eyes over towards what AMD is offering, i'm looking forward to seeing if they release something worth upgrading to
we already know with certainty that RDNA 3 is going to be sick and worth upgrading to, and a better value than 4000 series. you need to follow moore's law is dead for example, you'd know this. it's not an unknown quantity... it's guaranteed epicness on many levels.
@@Artcore103 Well to be fair Moore's Law is highly biased in this discussion. I mean he was praising the 6400 xt and the 6500 non xt cards. He's not very impartial. Which is fine. Having Biases over products is completely fine in my book. It's just I'd take his optimism with a touch of skepticism. I'm still hoping it pans out, but I'm cautious until we see the price to performance in reality and see what advancements have been made in their encoder and rayracing.
Remember when Intel started releasing CPU's that always got more expensive, and they never really went on sale as they got old? It sounds like that's the game Nvidia is trying to play right now. They want to establish the floor price for 30 series cards, so the next generation of card can only get more expensive. I think this is the moment Nvidia is falling into that same trap, and in 4 years, AMD is going to drop it's GPU "Ryzen" that totally demolishes Nvidia for a few years after.
The problem they are going to have is there isn't going to be as much to sell without something like eth mining.
>and in 4 years
Bro they already did. It was called RDNA2. It sold more poorly because Ampere was better to mine on. It's partly why 5700XTs sold for close to a thousand dollars by the end, because RDNA1 made excellent mining cards (proofs, I made $5/day on average, card paid for itself pretty quickly, even saw it jump to mine over $10 in one day once). This is why nVidia was in a lawsuit, because they were concealing just how much they relied on purely mining sales and scalpers as opposed to real value demand. Their post crypto crash stock price next to AMD betrays the fact also.
What I'd go so far as to say is that AMD had actually reached parity with nVidia all the way back in 2019, it's just fanboys didn't notice and hadn't gotten the memo yet, partly being gassed up about Turing which was a letdown. RDNA was their Zen1 moment. RDNA2 was their Zen2 moment. If you're "brand agnostic" god I hate that term, then you'd have already noticed this back in 2020, but if you stubbornly thought Intel was better you'd still probably be saying yeah well Ryzen 3000 series still isn't as good as Intel for gaming and it's still "that shitty buggy budget brand." Even still, the writing was on the wall with Ryzen, it's just nobody outside fanboys and super tech geeks noticed then, and still it nobody outside the mainstream noticed with Zen2 while the rest of us were obstinately refusing or finally willing to give it a try again. Zen3 is simply when it became undeniable that AMD was better than Intel even to people who know nothing about tech outside "I play candycrush on my iphone and it makes phonecalls." RDNA2 is that Zen2 moment which is where people in that "Intel is just better" mindset finally were willing to give it a try, and found out it's not old AMD.
I fully expect RDNA3 to be that moment where even the mainstream figures out new-Radeon makes the better gaming GPUs. nVidia doesn't even hold a monopoly on halo products anymore, with the RX 6950XT slaughtering the RTX 3090, hence the only reason the 3090ti even exists which is to compete with that directly. It's why TDP has been skyrocketing for nVidia after Turing, and one component to that despairing call Jensen had to make that Jay just talked about, is that they know AMD is hitting hard, not just that crypto has crashed and we're teetering on recession. I'd surmised this is partly because they didn't want to make Lovelace have to compete directly with RDNA3, so they can pull a "just two more weeks" thing and keep selling Ampere in the meantime. Why they'd do this, I don't know, because RTX 3000 will look godawful at current prices in a few months.
Either way you cut it, I think this is a low mark for nVidia, like Fermi or the GTX 200 series, and it's why they went so far as to basically threaten tech journalists over not putting raytracing front and center. It's a neat tech don't get me wrong (we've had raytracing since the 1990s it's just realtime fully pathtraced lighting in scenes rendering it in games was a pipe dream since then so I'm not shitting on that) it's just it's not worth that much more of my money personally. Since AMD has nice, easier to use open-source API stuff, it's going to make it a harder sell dealing with nVidia and I expect the API level is just going to start to eclipse that soon, with DLSS being dropped entirely after Lovelace because it was never an actual feature, only crutches for the crippling arrow to the knee that was RT to point of being unplayable on Turing cards even at 1080p without it. With the console market locked down, probably we're going to see even the one feature advantage they had edged out with fairly comparable RT on AMD, which sucks for them because it'll probably be the first generation to truly matter for a lot of gamers and not just be some niche thing like nice Linux drivers. But nVidia's strength isn't gaming anyway, it's the enterprise business stuff, so I expect them to focus on that and maybe even try to make an SLI comeback or something like that to make up for being the hotter, louder, more inefficient, less powerful card that costs more.
@@pandemicneetbux2110 hopefully rdna3 kicks serious ass, I want to build a new rig, and have been holding out forever, and nVidia pisses me off to the point I just don’t want to deal with them anymore. I have had prejudice toward AMD ever since the piledriver and bulldozer architecture because I just wasn’t happy with the performance I got for investing in them.
@@Thiccalus Honestly especially because I had to put up with AMD like 10-15 years ago on laptop it helped form a serious prejudice against them, regardless it was the fact HP laptops particular suck and AMD just wasn't that good back then, especially not on EL Cheapo's. I thankfully listened to enough reviews and gave it a chance. I think nVidia's star has basically fallen. They are not positioned well in the upcoming gen at all and those TDPs proves it, like what happened with RDNA2 but in overdrive, and frankly their software sucks. Like it sucks so bad, that you can tell a guy like Jay normally uses only nVidia because he still thinks he has to use MSI Afterburner with a Radeon card lol. Yeah I caught that one Jay, idk if there's any excuse but really I think the very idea of good software is alien until you get to Adrenalin. It's such a seemingly non-issue that you realize how important it is daily. Meanwhile the performance is fantastic and I basically spent less money on it.
Anyone who bought a 5700XT right before the next gen launch is going to be beaming like this though, partly because we found out we accidentally bought great mining cards too. Just listen to the reviewers like Jay and the Steves, plus a bunch of other people like techyescity, level1 etc. If AMD completely sucks next gen, they are going to tell you. I would've gained absolutely nothing by being stubborn and sticking with Intel and getting an RTX card like I originally thought I would, than be butthurt and feeling rused later. My main thing is that AMD has the chiplet design down pat and is not buggy on 7800 cards, otherwise I'd stay with the monolithic. If they get their GPU chiplet design to work well, it's gonna smash.
I think AMD will “bring it” to Nvidia well before 4 years from now.
Sounds like a perfect time for AMD to drop a killer series of cards at a reasonable price...
I've been reading the same comment every year... I do have the same hopes tho' but I've been disappointed some many times
@@rustyclark2356 we need it to happen, evidence is not enough, it has to become a reality, not a neverending hope
@@amaurytoloza1511 amd have been closing the gap generation on generation it's going to happen this coming gen or the next.
AGREE!
@@rustyclark2356 the 6600xt's competitor is the 3060ti, not the 3050.
thanks for your honesty 💓 I have noticed of late LMG is not doing videos like this or proper reviews
Kinda nuts, this is actually a similar situation where AMD flooded miners with R9 290's and got massively burned by the glut when miners sold their cards for half off. Hurting the totality of the R9 200 series sales and the following R9 300 series almost destroyed Radeon. Now increase it by an order of magnitude and you have the situation with Nvidia at the moment.
Smart guy... thanks for that info mate
I do love companies massively benefitting from an artifical bubble, then acting like it's a real problem when it burts. Instead of being happy they made huge profits whilst they could and are better off then they were beforehand.
AMD is gaining major ground on them anyways, while Nvidia is still better, its not by much anymore. AMD had em beat in the past, they can do it again.
@@dalehammers4425 if I were to switch from a 3000 series card to an amd card you have any links or info that can help lead me in the right direction? Keep finding forums that are no help lol
@@brendanmartin4489 afraid I don't. Still on an rx 580 and gtx 980.
@@dalehammers4425 If intel can actually drop the a770, they might be able to take some of the mid range market from Nvidia as well, especially if Nvidia wants to hold off on 4060 type cards until next year.
@@MistyKathrine let's see if they are even worth a damn first.
For those that don't know, this exact language always pops up in the CEO letter to shareholders in every annual report. It's fun to dissect the meaning in that letter and figure out how the company is actually doing. Example mini-game: if the CEO uses the word "challenge" or "challenging" three times in the letter, strongly consider reducing your share position or just getting out. 😁
Great Point!
It feels like everyone understands this but Jay
With nVidia's stock options too you pay more for less))) AMD's stock options get finewined.
They make a video of it only when it's the "top dog" company. When AMD had a similar thing, it didn't even make it on the tech news blotters even though Lisa said pretty much nearly the exact same thing here. Jay knows most of his viewers are Breadtubers ignorant of the business world and he does it to take advantage of the rage clicks.
@@Talishar lol ok CPUpro
This also means that 40 series cards will PRETTY DAM expensive, if 30xx are going to stay around this price. The question is, will people buy it.
I won't
@@alexanderjones3830 same
Thanks for the info Jay! Keep feeding us the information sir.
Disney Inc. stated that the reason they are raising prices on their parks/hotels/food/merchandise is to reduce the number of park goers.
It's all strategy to make more money.
This make absolutely no sense
It just a way to make the raise price being a good thing in the eye of the sheepole hey look we raised the price so less people will come = reduce the risk of covaid transmission
Yeah it always like when people look at Jensen the way he's talking as well it always kind of cracks me up that people are like oh you know this is how Jensen thinks no Jensen's talking to his shareholders.. his shareholders are emotional bipolar wrecks who essentially set up a system where that joke about the stock market being a graph of rich people's feelings is stupidly not a joke it's it's actually that that's what it is.. like the actual old school fantasy capitalism has long since been surpassed by the meritless Milton Friedman style that has no actual grounding in any sort of substance so much as building wealth on top of wealth on top of wealth that doesn't really exist, and we'll jump ship at any moment.. with no real consequences essentially, and that's a system that we've had multiple generations at this point born into that weren't that bright to begin with anyways. certainly not bright on the level to actually build these companies in the first place.. what ones that are left anyways.
Like it's it's really annoying that this is how this is.. but it is kind of funny listening to him say that.. like cuz you know shareholders you know the people on that call.. and I'll give him some props for straight face patronage.. but I highly doubt that that's how he thinks about it otherwise he would have done different things... the fact that the shareholders are upset about the fact that they made a lot of money real quick, by taking advantage of an opportunity where they could make a lot of money real quick that they were never going to sustain in anybody that thought about it for half a second would have known that.. and now they're back to baseline but you know plus any of the benefits that they had from actually doing their job with a successful architecture.. so there's still better than baseline they're still making money, they're just not making as much as they did last Thursday.. and this requires like emotional consolment.. and that's the game cuz that's apparently the game.. so really really stupid game.. you look at the gilded age capitalists who actually built something.. and that was actually the goal was to build something, wealth is nice power is better, empire is everything.. it's like the same cutthroat tactics, but with no actual goal other than bubbling up the magic money.
There's a real problem that disney had to solve.
Parks are overcrowded. And it makes it difficult to ensure safety and that guests have a great day.
They tried to reduce people by making them book their visit but it only worked in France (and it works really well ! Way less wait times and a more enjoyable day because it's less crowded).
Disney has tried Raising prices every year for Decades now and Its still Overcrowded, that means that Supply is not meeting demand. The Park isn't getting Any bigger so you have to raise the price to reduce the amount of people who can go..its simple economics. With the tons of money they are making they could Open another Disney world maybe Texas? That Would Help cut things down as would some other company opening a similar Park.
@@seanwfindley Yhea, and just think, you could even get paid thousands of dollars, for a similar, if not Superior feeling of thrill and satisfaction by joining the hunt, the hunt for the most dangerous game.. bounties are almost as good as Chinese exotic animal trade.. sometimes even better, It'll be it it's a little trickier.. the most dangerous game is a little widely than your average large game animal.
Now I know what you're thinking.. you're thinking well isn't that just for the wealthy? How could I a poor who can't afford simple thousands of dollars to blow on the mediocre magical Disney experience, ever afford to get into the most dangerous game..? don't you have to have an upfront cost, I can't afford property in Medina? Hell I can't even afford property in Washington State, at least on the west side.. Why would I even consider such a silly option that's obviously out of reach by several scales? I wouldn't even know where to go or who to talk to to get started?
Well, the truth is is 2022.. technology has allowed for the increase in ownership that was previously only available for the super wealthy.. by taking part-time or partial buy-ins, you too can have a scalable version of that dream.. and from there you build!
One of the best ways is to find some like-minded friends that you can trust.. preferably ones that are weaker than you but not incompetent. Then cooling your money together, using our proprietary app you can get access to the lower level hunts.. and if vigilant, even catch rejected jobs from more experienced season professional hunters.. these are anything from a few hundred dollars to millions, as Time sensitivity can get you a leg up even though it's not likely and there are many participants waiting as well.. the best way to do it is to increase your rating reliability etc..
Now once you've achieved a certain amount of success and climbed through the secret algorithm that we use to determine the best candidates for the job.. and you can personally afford one on your own it's time to cut that dead weight.. which is why they need to be weaker than you.. by then you should have more than enough experience and even possibly should be you being incredibly financially fortuitous at this point with your sharp, Street smart skills as a poor...
You could even hire the hunt on your own... And just sit back and watch the money rain, eventually possibly even retire.. Just like the stock market but reliable and consistent with no technical downtime by comparison.. plus, none of that wishy-washy crypto garbage.. cold hard tangible Monopoly bills with the real presidents on them.. not that origami crap with the dead Queen, couldn't even feed her own hulocruxes and maintain her immortality.. loser lol.
Now you say but what if I just want to get the same equivalent you know of going on some rides and stuff.. but you don't even need me for that or an app, this is just an opportunity for you to make the money that you'd be spending.. that said, we're testing data applications for vacation hunting.. it's not like the ritual daily drives in Medina after 8:00.. but if you're willing to front the travel cost, you can end up having your fee waived on account of services due in said opportunity overseas.. and we'll set the whole thing up you don't have to do a thing other than fly there or both there or swim it's up to you just don't tell anyone!
I hear the mouse likes to hunt.. it's personal for him, having a been a prey animal most of his life, he's quite good and it's really helped to maximize his potential.
Now you're saying isn't this illegal, what about taxes etc.. don't worry about it.. just you know don't worry about it sure, certain regulatory bodies might cause problems but if anything that's kind of on you for making a ruckus, hunting is a privilege not a right.. keeping it on the DL and the police will never be involved, in fact, keep it on the DL long enough, if you're passionate enthusiasm really shines through and you start making those high number clients, the police might be your client..!
I got to tell you I wasn't a poor myself but I was a medium poor... And there ain't no drug in the world that compares to The most dangerous game. No meal either.. waste not want not!
And you might actually want to go drop that several thousand dollars just cuz you can at this point on that Disneyland just to scratch that itch.. but I have a feelin it won't take but a few minutes or maybe a single ride or just 30 seconds in a line.. wouldn't be out of the possibility for you to just drop the rest of the money on the ground... Maybe light it on fire in front of the rest of the lazy poors...? And jus... leave and go hunting again.. cuz ain't no stupid little silly spinny rides going to ever satisfy you again..
So take advantage, don't be sitting there on the couch just doing nothing being a drain to society.. be the plumber!
What an amazing informative video. Thank you Jay.
I Love your ifixit sponsor clip, maybe cuz i am seeing this now after quite a while.
All this is a good reminder to keep our emotions from getting tied up to a manufacturer.
No manufacturer is "our saviour" and out there for our benefit. They do whatever they do to make money or win customers.
As Linus likes to word it: "No company on the entire planet is your friend."
I can't shake the feeling that Jensen underestimates the situation they are in. In just a few weeks, the sale of new 30 series GPUs is pretty much gonna hit a brick wall. I highly doubt this manipulation strategy is not going to turn into a fire sale real fast. So in my view, the used market is going to set the price of new 30 series GPUs(because Nvidia HAS to sell them, storage also costs money and GPUs are a depreciating asset) and the 40 series will then be priced according to the 30 as he described. Now to put a pinch of salt to this, he may just be delivering the bad news to investors in stages, leaving the possibility for it to not be that bad.
You explained clear all my thoughts!
People exclude the used market and AMD too much from this issue... but both are very important for the future price of the RTX3000.
In how much time do you think that supply glut should happen?
@@neeld66 I doubt we'll have to wait past the end of the month. In my country(popular for mining due to cheap power) you can already see it starting.
Miners wont sell their cards, they will move on to ravencoin, market has no capacity for all these cards nor want them due to the common prejudice about mining cards. But you are right, market will get flooded with these gpus but not to that extreme extent you are pointing out
@@wolniacha_tv unless they get free electricity they won't... Some will, but most won't as it'll be unprofitable
So for those of us looking to get a high end card this cycle we should probably wait and see what prices do to decide between one of the 80/90 cards. If you're looking for mid range it would be best to jump on a deal if you find one and wait until the new gen.
As the ol' meme once taught us, "This is business!"
This would totally disappear with proper competition though.
No companies would pull this trick if they had a worthy rival ready to sell "their product" at a better price with the same performance.
The message ? .... Don't be a fanboy of just one company.
It really puts the pressure on a manipulative company if customers had "choices"
I'm sick of Nvidia's crappy behaviour. I'm really hoping AMD will deliver this generation so I can switch over.
Be nice to get a card by Sapphire again too.
Why sapphire
@@eriktenhag2022 They're one of if now the best AMD GPU maker
I really like my Sapphire 6700 XT Nitro.
@@eriktenhag2022 Sapphire for years and years has made some of the if not the outright best Radeon video cards. And in general they are often very well designed.
Why, what's Nvidia done? Cba watching video.
Love this guy for breaking down info like this for us (consumers) to understand and make more informed decisions. You're the man Jay 👍
Maybe it's hindsight, but it's interesting to see this video AFTER the full disclosure of EVGA breaking ties with Nvidia.
I've known this for years. Nvidia launches hype with a limited supply, which creates the illusion of popularity, which causes a frenzy and because of that, people line up in droves to get something that is being trickled from supply, which makes it snowball into more of a frenzy and then because of the short supply, the prices are raised to snatch up buyers willing to pay any price to get what they want. Meanwhile, the shipping containers are full of product, which could easily be sold for MSRP, but those products are being trickled out slowly to maintain the standard of high prices.
NVIDIA has proven to be anti-consumer especially during the pandemic/mining. Let's all be honest, if they did not make the fastest GPUs they would be going through a downfall. No matter what as long as they are on top, they will continue these practices. Let's hope that AMD can change things around as it is time NVIDIA recognizes and respects the fact that the *consumer is the investor* . If we did not buy the GPUs then what?
Consumers are not investors, they are consumers, these are different terms with actual meanings and regardless AMD is no better, have you already forgotten the BS around SAM and what boards could run 5000 CPU’s?
As much as I don't like what Nvidia is doing. The shareholder is the investor. The consumer are just cash cows.
right because AMD isn't just as bad...
@@anonymousone6075 Maybe not at the moment. Im seeing a sale of an Asus 6900XT for $700.
@@oxfordsparky Lesser of two evils I suppose.. agree neither have a clean record... but these practices are crossing the line. I do of course realize we are not investors but my point was that we are the endpoint.. we ultimately are the ones buying these GPUs (whether integrated or standalone) so to publically shame your consumers to the benefit of your investors simply highlights the very issue being raised here. Anti-consumer market manipulation and @ $2000 a GPU (we all know NVIDIA want to launch the 4090Ti at this price point and cascade down) this is really out of control IMO.
I understand it in a different way. He said they want to launch 40 series on top of 30 so for me that means above 3090(ti) in performance (so 4090 and maybe 4080 this year) and they will wait with the rest of the lineup until 30 series will be gone next year.
Another thing 3060 is not the only option, I think 6600 and 6600XT are better value right now and raytraycing is not important at that level of performance ;)
I have the 6600XT paired with my 5600X and absolutely love it! 1080p monster and can handle 1440p60 with couple things turned down.
"Going into next year" is vague as hell, I don't even know what that means haha
Great video for a guy like me! Well done. Broken down for a simple man to understand. Thank you!!!
Hey man thank you for clearing this up for us. As a tech reviewer I know this is kind of risky for you. But it really is appreciated by the people bro
3060, 3060ti, 3070 and 3080 prices are glued to roughly 100 euro above msrp since may 2022 here in germany. Only prices that came down were the heavily overpriced ones aka 3080ti, 3090 and 3090ti.
Same in the US. Nvidia is desperate to rip us off. Their brand image is crashing fast, & if AMD or even (choke) Intel can manage to catch their tech in the next year or two, it could spell dark days for them.
that was intentional, they're trying to soak those sku for all they're worth. They may correct down a little closer to the new series launch, but I'm guessing the new launch will just feature even higher starting prices
@@JeighNeither I mean excluding ray tracing performance AMD basically matched the RTX3000 series with RDNA 2 in terms of rasterization performance with less power draw. The people in our market have to be willing to accept that Nvidia isn't the best and be willing to buy a competitors product to fix what Nvidia is trying to get away with gen after gen.
Exactly the same situation in Greece. The cheapest 3080 (10GB) sells for €840+ and it's companies like Manli or Inno which I don't trust when it comes to components.
The 3060 (12gb) sells for ~410€ and for a 2-year-old card it's definitely not a bargain. Everyone I know waits for AMD to show what they have before buying.
Right now in the US the 3050 and 3060 are $50 over MSRP while the rx 6600 and 6600xt are $80 below MSRP.
You know what was eye-opening? When they raised the price of their RTX cards with 20% despite the fact that after a year rtx released, there were barely any game supporting it.
IMO the amount of RTX games is still insignificant even today.
Well, 2 years later RTX is still a gimmick..
I'd say even today ray tracing is still a gimmick, barely any games have it and it looks mediocre. The only one looking really good with ray trace is Cyberpunk. But the performance hit is wayyy too high even with dlss.
Curious about Jays view on power requirements on the new series coming out due to all the energy and inflation issues going on?
Normally I would be excited about the 40 series but I am worried that power requirements are getting ridiculous
I wonder if there's a way to predict the price to performance value of the 4 series using the rate of price dropping from now to the release date?
Like find out how much the 3080 would be at launch of the 4080 with current trends and then calculate the price and performance of the new card
"Correction" when talking about a supply chain actually does have a specific meaning. Typically it means that there is a bubble or a chokepoint in the chain (10->10->30->7 or 10->5->3->1). To make a correction you want to manipulate one or more steps in the supply chain to bring it back in balance. There are multiple levels of graduate courses dedicated to this SC theory and why balance is desirable (and desirable to the consumer as well). Criticizing the motives and the anti-consumer nature of the steps they plan to take is entirely valid though.
Please learn how to speak English like a fellow human!
Nvidia overstretched. I understand that they're implementing such a business strategy to correct for the over supply. I agree that they are avoiding a more naturalistic decrease in supply through price decreases but rather using them to station and justify the prices of next get 4000 series. I would make the argument that AMD, if they understand this just like you, would do quite well by reducing even further the prices of their existing 6000 series. AMD has more to gain relative to what they can lose. Nvidia has more to lose relative to what they can gain. IMO
Same as Microsoft vs sony
Thanks for putting this out.
Off-topic: i haven't been watching Jay's videos for quite a while or any PC build-related videos for that matter up until now and i must say, Jay's ad for iFixIT has become.. more dank.
I cant imagine why anyone already with a functional pc would buy one of these cards before seeing what amd brings to the table after how big of an improvement they made last gen
AMD, as great their Hardware realy is, has a big problem. Faulty drivers and less features. I dont care an would buy amd, if they correct that.
@Lurch7861 im only in a position where I can wait because a friend of mine gave me his 5700xt after he got himself a 3070. Otherwise I would have more than likely overpaid this gen
@@FAL87 my last card was an rx580 and my current one is a 5700xt. I've experienced no more issues than I've had on the nvidia cards I had previously
@Doranvel Can I ask what specific features you're waiting for before buying AMD? Not criticizing. Just curious. Thanks!
Fantastic video as always Jay!! I've been saying this since the start of covid, companies saying "I would sell you and everyone product if I could", is complete bullshit. Companies want to control the market like this by keeping supply low, raising demand and turning the market to where they can name their price.
Oh, it's true. They just leave off the last part of the sentence: "...if I could charge you all the same exorbitant prices I'm gouging the current smaller number of customers for."
beautiful break down thabk you !
So to simplify this -
N vidia “ We will choke the supply to artificially maintain the high price’s until the inventory sells , the we can release the next gen at higher prices to maintain our record profits as long as possible “
Greed but there is nothing I can do about it , the only way to bring the prices down would be if the majority of buyers just decided not to buy at all and wait for the market to adjust the pricing to attract the customers back .
Saying all that you can get a 3090 Ti for $1099 ,
That’s very close to reasonable price considering the performance and perceived value . The current prices are what the prices should have been in the beginning .
The lighting is really good in this one! Nice job.
For me personally, it's quite simple, Nvidia lowers price of Graphics card, of they simply don't sell a card.
Consumers have all the power, if they can stand together and deny themselves instant gratification. If not, well you give companies all the power and as history has shown time and time again, that's very dangerous.
Thanks for bring this up. It's like housing market, builders will slow down building new houses in bear market once they clear the stocks in hand.
The most troublesome item is that they want to keep prices high, even for what are effectively excess products. The question of why is simple: if I can get a cheap 30 series, a 40 series is less likely to be bought. But more importantly: this can only happen because Nvidia has no competition. Nvidia only has Nvidia products to compete with, and so they dictate prices.
Thanks again for addressing the "Buy now" video. A load of us knew the gravy train was too good and Nvidia wants to set a new baseline. Every single person who has not bought is doing a service to consumers as a whole. We literally have to keep refraining from purchasing because they are playing a dirty game...everything is supposed to be much cheaper by now but they got their miner money and now want to get as much as possible from consumers years after the product launch. They will not see my money.
Yep. *Not* buying is how consumers stand up to tech corporations. That’s why as reviewers and market mavens, bashing terrible products is our civic duty.
My 1080 is still holding up for basically any title or application I'm using it for, so I'm happy to wait as long as I need to before upgrading. And it might be an AMD card so goodluck NVIDIA.
@@NickyDekker89 Currently on a very capable Vega 64 so it's the same for me in 1440p.
Boycott Nvidia, 'nuff said
I love that you haven’t changed the I fix it kit add. And thanks for the video. Just makes me glad I went all AMD for my system. I’m sure their not innocent…..But their doing a better job making prices reasonable.
You don't have to change a masterpiece
I keep waiting for a 3rd interruption lol
You don't mess with perfection.
The only ad I will never skip.
I wanted to wait for the 4000 series to start my first build but with these price speculations idk if it will even be worth paying over a $1000 for a 4080, or whatever they’d decide to release, when I could get a 3080 even a 3090 for significantly less.
I been an Nvidia user since my earliest Nvidia card in the early 2000's have been always dedicated. After hearing this, when its time to do the next gen build in the future, I may just have to re think my decisions
The question is how severe will this artificial scarcity of the 30XX/40XX cards be? This reminds me of the USDOJ vs. DeBeers/GE case - Artificial Scarcity in the Diamond Mining industry.
Diamonds are literally worthless bits of carbon. They are sparkly and one company owns all of them. And then did a marketing campaign saying that you weren't "a real man" unless you spent 1,2,3,4 months of a paycheck on the ring.
We really need AMD to hit it out of the park with their new chiplet GPU
let's just hope AMD, and the board partners don't charge a kidney for a GPU like Nvidia has been.
@@CommodoreFan64 they'll charge double if they could get away with it.
I hope so cause Intel Arc was such an embarrassment XD
@Eric i mean....Intel is bigger than Nvidia and AMD. So...we kind of expected them to beat Nvidia and AMD. The Hardware I have no issues with but the software, the gui, the drivers are just terrible. Like was it developed by a team of 20 people only? lol
@Eric let’s be honest even Intel didn’t expect so many negative reactions. They came out trying to be a hero and ended up looking like a big zero
I’ve been planning to build a pc for over a year now but money being a huge factor in a build that has yet to happen. First I thought I wanted AMD, then I moved to intel and nvidia and now I really don’t know what to think. I’ve been watching these videos and often look at gpu prices and have always thought that this whole shortage/price issue was by design. I think that moving forward the ridiculous price point on these things are really going to put people off even bothering with self builds.
I am finally in the position to upgrade my aging system. With AMD releasing new cpus in the next few months, plus new tech platforms in ram, boards and storage I'm going to wait a little longer. BUT the real kicker will be the Next gen Radeon cards. If they can come in with a big performance jump and good power draw compared to Nvidia/Intel, I might be going for a full AMD system.
Any word on their Radeon reveal date?
AMD themselves announced September… 27th I think for the RDNA3 announcement date, probably will be another month before they are on sale though from the sound of it right now
I hope AMD has decent ray tracing performance at a reasonable price. Nvidia desperately needs serious competition.
Ray tracing is very overrated. Good marketing scheme by Nvidia.
@@ILiketurtles68 I agree.
It will be the future, though. But right now it's not worth the $$$.
No one even uses ray tracing
Ray tracing just needs to become more efficient and hinder performance so much.
@@senraXD the future, ehh idk bout that. It's really just a nice feature to have but not as important as it's made out to be. Though I think DLSS and FSR are the future.
I switched to an AMD 6900XT in 2020. Before that i have been running Nvidia for 10 years. I am really happy with my card. I was able to push down the power draw from 280 to 220 Watt without really losing any Performance and the drivers are really good. Never had really bis issues updating them. Therefore, I decided to keep running AMD in the future. I am really looking forward to RDNA3!
I have just now watched this only AFTER watching the video on the announcement from EVGA first. I wouldn't call myself an Nvidia fanboy, but I've been pretty loyal to Nvidia in the past. And though I desperately need to upgrade my GPU (i've never even owned a dual slot card) this announcement, along with EVGA's subsequent withdrawal makes me want to reconsider my next GPU purchase. Perhaps I will give AMD a try next time. I will see what the budget market presents to me for options.
got a 3080 for MSRP at launch, by the time I make a new build they should be up in the 6-7000s
looking forward to that
So let me interpret this: Since both generations have to coexist in the same market for the first time and 4000 series cards will be about twice as fast as their 3000 series counter parts the 4000 series cards will be roughly twice the price. I haven't had anything AMD in my PC since 2012, but if prices develop as I expect them to I will switch completely back to AMD, my G-Sync monitor be damned!...
Cap
AMD cards work with G sync
Should have gone freesync
I've been shitting on nVidia since Turing for a reason. Yes, they are unironically going to try and jack prices yet again like some filthy landlord over a slum. They did it with Turing, despite not offering enough uplift, and people still bought it, and they did it yet again with Ampere, and people still bought it, because nVidia justifiably thinks gamers are stupid and easy to con out of their money. What reason do they even have not to expect they can't just do it yet again? Expect $650 RTX 4070's, a "bargain price" $700 RTX 4070ti, lot of hot air about "features" and whole LOT of hot air of them desperately trying to compare their 4000 series with 3000 and 2000 to try and bilk people into rationalizing the financial loss and justifiying the price gouge. I wouldn't expect it but wouldn't be surprised either if they did extra shady shit to try and stimulate scalping and scalp their own cards at this point, because the only way anyone was possibly stupid enough to pay a thousand dollars for a 3060 was being conned into thinking it was a WiseTM InvestmentTM and "passive income" blah blah thinking they can just mine that kind of money with it before the inevitable crash, because without mining a 3060 ain't worth half that.
So double? No, but they justifiably are expecting gamers to be stupid enough to just keep buying their hardware regardless of literally any other consideration than it having the logo, even if it means preying on a combination of fear, pride, regret, and shame like some meth dealer to keep someone roped in and self-rationalizing.
If you want a really good insight into what this looks like, go over to userbenchmarks and have a laugh at "GPUpro" sometime. Guy already is absolutely losing his marbles over Zen3 and RDNA2, and already achieved full on "performance doesn't matter, resolution doesn't matter, price doesn't matter, only features matter" back in mid 2021 iirc.
Lastly I'm not even sure if you need G-sync period. I apparently have a Freesync monitor (not that I cared tbh I bought it because $150 for 1440[75 was cheap at that point) and I leave Freesync off or "amd optimized" whatever the hell that means, and instead just use EnhancedSync on. It's amazing. Like 90% of the time I don't even need to touch vsync or anything else with EnhancedSync.
My main concern is, nVidia gaslighting people for ages has made AMD pretty affordable for awhile now, and Ryzen 7000 prices and lack of coolers is an ill omen. I fully expect AMD to jack prices once RDNA3 comes out, lowering my enthusiasm tremendously if they just charge nVidia tier prices. Still, if nVidia just flatly sucks AND costs more, counting me needing a new PSU for them, there's no choice. Well there is, I can simply buy neither and be happy with what I have.
@@DeejayJeanP not all of them, sadly. NVIDIA introduced the "GSync Compatible" label somewhere around 2019 which is nothing other than AMD FreeSync, but of cause they didn't wanna call it that. My ASUS ROG PG279Q however is from 2016 (and was launched in 2015) so its GSync or nothing for me...
This sounds like an amazing opportunity for AMD to swoop in, make a profit, (comparatively) look after consumers, AND grab a huge chunk of market share. I wonder if there will come a point when Nvidia will wish it didn’t let the genie out of the bottle. Sun Tzu said it a thousand years ago and it’s as true now as it was then: never under-estimate your opponent.
I don't think sun Tzu had a cult like apple does though, I mean don't get me wrong I think he wanted one but.. I feel like there's something in the art of war that probably covers the art of convincing people to do all your convincing for you.. although AMD certainly is taking that one to heart so.. maybe it'll work out, obviously they need a bigger cult.. but you know what so does every Cult... You can always use more cultists.. cuz you know who cares if the ATF shows up, that's just you know time to prove the actual devotion of the members... I mean apparently that's worthwhile, I mean what was it all for if they aren't going to really show their loyalty.. and what pisses me off is that we've gotten to this brand ideology point where it's actually a thing that you can count on, certainly politically at this point same system though of manipulation.. it's absolutely ridiculous in the age of the internet that this is what we ended up with.. but I guess we probably should have seen that one coming I mean some people did.. rollerball brave New world combo.
@@jakedill1304 Sun Tzu wrote A LOT on spy warfare - convincing others of the things that help one’s own cause. I trust you meant Nvidia rather than Apple, though the same issues apply.
It’s basic human psychology to form tribes (I.e. Nvidia and AMD fanboi tribes). It helps us to justify our decisions post-purchase, feel more comfortable we made the right choice. This is why it’s really important that Radeon grows it’s market share off the back of a disillusioned Nvidia tribe.
Only if they can massively undercut nvidia..otherwise I don’t see it happening. Chances are amd is going to be greedy and price them similar to nvidia
@@grievesy83 no I meant to Apple cuz they have a better cult, like one of nvidia's problems is they've kind of not only failed but actively sabotage the first stage of having a cult, which is you know.. free cookies and charisma.. and it's one of the reasons why I don't think AMD is ever going to really compete or at least doesn't really need to compete on any of the same levels as far as graphical architecture goes.. they have the console market locked down pat..
nobody wants to work with Nvidia nobody likes working with Nvidia and they burn damn near every bridge that they haven't bought and sometimes they burn the ones they bought.. although I think that might be more accidental, cuz you know stuffed in a storage unit with a bunch of dry flammable objects and you know.. accidents happen etc like you know the goal is to have them stuffed in that storage unit LOL until they prove useful, it's not like EA where they got a thing for taking somebody out back to the shed..
Yeah Nvidia has managed to min max its way into where it is, and they've earned it very much so as much as they bought it.. nobody was taking them seriously back in the early mid-2000s right before the PC iterations of the next generation we're about to hit.. that fx5 000 series was an absolute disaster.. the four series was okay but they just been seemingly thinking they were where what they are now back after the g-force 3 and 2..
ATI had that $9,800, they went from being price competitive I'll be at unstable to well still kind of unstable but just wiping the floor with them, if they just only happened to wipe the floor with them right before the next actual generation leap.. and Nvidia on the other hand put them on the ground and then kept them on the ground probably ever since, I mean they've like managed to make eye contact with the ref on occasion.. but ever since the 6800 series it's it's not been good for them LOL and the 6800 was absolutely brilliant, just holistically too bad that it happened to show exactly where you could be going with games and technology right as it was about to flatline forever.. and right as they were about to get there last gaming contract LOL.. oh well I guess there's Nintendo but you know..
like people work with Nvidia because they have to because they have proprietary technology and because they do actually still have a good product on several scales, nobody wants to work with Nvidia and if there's ever half a chance regardless of the performance of the actual product even the price of the actual product they'll still work with AMD over Nvidia.. nobody likes them and they don't seem to want to change that, which is unfortunate cuz it also puts them in that desperate by everything I don't have any friends this is how I have to succeed.. slay my enemies
And truth be told it's not like they're not making money, and still making product which is rare in modern capitalism to have both for as long as this has been possibly because it's semiconductor related and it's one of the few industries that isn't allowed to slide quite on the same scale as others.. but you know you could just be apple.. gather yourself a cult following that will buy whatever whenever just cuz.. and not on merit because they are true believers, even some of the ones that know better, I used to work in the movie industry LOL.. some of them actually did.. I'm not sure what it is now but considering that they all stepped in line on the final cut x release, like I'm sure the last few years of complete destitution in the prosumer and all the other really things that the industry could actually hold up in the early and before 2010s.. you know... like when you look at the price tags of the actual app store and how that functions.. the fact that that's even a thing is is should be like there's so many things that should be things but you know you got a cult...
And on occasion for many logical and illogical and well I mean the business side might say a logical but it's actually logical it actually makes sense they're not stupid, occasionally they actually do something technological.. granted the spectacle is always more important but, strange strange field of technology where you still kind of sometimes have to try or at least try real hard to make it look like you're trying.. it's all it's all about that yo-yo.. was where companies and the ironically big blue and of course team blue both seem to have followed each other's footsteps whether they knew it or not.
AMD though they've got a good cult, it's just not like the kind that makes you good cash like you know.. be like if Scientologist strictly targeted blue collar workers in northern Michigan.. it's just you know like yeah you can extract cash out of anybody that's what cults are for... It's just way easier to extract cash out of people that genuinely need you to fill the void that the tragic upbringing of celebrityhood and acting and chew up spit out while baby birding the whole time of Hollywood could theoretically instigate.. who happened to be obscenely wealthy and influential.. it's just like you know obviously, shit they come to you..
but it is also what keeps them in the game, as long as you have the Fanboys and the good ones you know, cuz the quality of fanboyism and AMD is top-notch it's just you know they're poors by comparison, and don't get me wrong they're actively trying to solicit a more affluent cult of course but you know they're not just going to drop them off a cliff real quick it's just going to seem like it from the outside looking in LOL if they can get there which they might.. they just don't have to because they do other things..
the CPU space that's different that's more direct and whatnot but ATI has always been a rider, a good rider though it's not like they're losing money, every time there's a console generation they make Bank and that's a contract they're going to have until they just don't want it anymore,.. and it dictates the future of gaming, the PC side is just a prestige thing if anything, the AI side that's a little different and there's some business to be had and if they can have it they will.. which is where the prestige thing comes into play but, like.. it would be like if IBM was you know your competitor in the computer space in the 70s and your product was garbage by comparison and your infrastructure was garbage by comparison in the mind share and gave like the actual proving of the thing was not proved.. at best you were on par, and not technologically.. and not even that much cheaper, and not reliable enough to be that much cheaper in the grand scheme of things.. so basically everything that didn't happen with IBM in the seventies.. so you know that's what the gaming market is for right!
@@grievesy83
Yeah no no I totally meant apple, cuz Nvidia don't have a good Cult, Nvidia has cautious buyers who either on a monetary depend scale or etc or just want the max min max of min max's.. and whether that's because of proprietary inclusion with cuda etc, or because AMD hasn't had it shit together in drivers or hardware really for a very long time, and all of us remember back in the ATI days the actual problems that that caused on a rendering scale.. back when you could really tell the difference in how each graphics card rendered things..
Like, they've had some cool ideas but they've never really had the heart for the intent as far as I can tell to actually follow through I'm just glad they still are around you know and I'm always rooting, cuz I remember that 9800 pro and my God was that incredible.. I just also remember that $6,800 ultra and my God was that far more incredible by comparison.. and stable well you know until it died a year and a half or so later cuz that cards didn't live long back then LOL it was actually a very long lived card ironically.. both on account that I was younger and time was slower back then and ATI was going to end up choking life out of their cards for a little bit to catch up and, like they've been ahead but they've never really been ahead and they've certainly never caught their breath since.
Now it's AMD is concerned, and I'm really separating the two cuz they really are two different completely different companies and in all fairness, they behave differently internally like they just they're they have a parent company and a color scheme, and yeah like it's more than that but like ATI or radion or whatever it's it's ATI it's it does its thing AMD does its thing with the CPU side, no AMD though AMD is starting to look respectable.. AMD has looked respectful in the past but they never really managed to capitalize it cuz Intel pulled and Nvidia.. and I'm part of me wonders if some of that had to do with industry practices, because they were so far ahead on the 64-bit thing and yet I didn't see 64-bit software until years after even Intel had been using those chips, and after that that core 2 duo, AMD was just kind of done as far as the professional respectable.. and then cuz fuck you mom they did bulldozer LOL.. it's been a painful journey but they've they've actually started to get back to where they were, and smarter and in a much slower and more stable situation than back in the early 2000s, it's unfortunate as that is for us consumers well fortunate and unfortunate I guess,...
so if AMD on the CPU end becomes a premium brand which is it's definitely you know it's their ball game to not desperately try to choke away tears and pick it up curling it desperately to their chest and go home with..and that could end up compelling Radeon further in that regard despite the separation because of the brand image, just like everybody is just unanimously AMD ATI there is no ATI unless you're old like me.. like the interesting things that come out of having an entire generation wrapped in this post 2010 era that just didn't know any better from before, and all the things that have come with that both positive and negative a lot of negative though I'm going to say but I'm old so.. mostly that's just from my perspective I'm sure they're fine, I mean complacency right!
great video jay!
Okay. I gotta like this video cause it's on point.
AMD needs to come out and really punish Nvidia for their lackluster and anti consumer practices here
It wont matter. nVidia fanboys are blind to other options. They keep trying to convince themselves that the 30 series are the fastest cards, which is completely false.
"The market" already showed it's prepared to pay thousands for the latest RGB-encrusted shiny shit, so why should a company that literally has green as its theme and names itself after the Latin for envy give a damn about charging less for toy GPUs? Why show an ounce of patience when you could have five more frames per second for only a couple thousand more dollars?
If the 4090 is priced at $1,500 MSRP, and the current RTX 3090 is $1,000, but the 4090 provides 50% more performance and 10% more memory bandwidth, and consumes the same amount of power as the old 3090, you're still getting more bang for buck than a $1,000 3090!
As Posted in another forum: So ready to give IBM a try - if I can afford to. I will miss EVGAs quality and innovations though.
I personally would like to see NVidia fall from the marketplace as the bad actors they have shown themselves to be over the last 2+ years, gouging every last cent they can. I truly hope IBM and AMD can rise above in terms of quality and performance.
I'm intrigued, what is IBM working on that will be part of the gaming world?
I wish EVGA would work with AMD. I would be on board buying a 7700 from them. Just saying. I really think they are limiting themselves. I would imagine AMD would be willing to cut a great deal just to steal an nvidia exclusive board partner. What does EVGA know about AMD that we don't? Are they harder to work with? Do they have some exclusivity deal that bars business with EVGA? I mean I get that graphics only add 20% to the profits but 20 is almost a quarter of the profits. That's a monumental hit. Anyway, there are features I wish I had with my 6700 that are available on the 3070 some of the production value that AMD lacks. I truly suspect AMD will have a pretty competent encoder better than h.265, I hope they do anyway. My computer sometimes struggles to record game play unless you reduce the recording quality drastically. Anyway, I was kind of getting pumped for the possibilities of a 4060 ti or a 4070. Now I'm thinking more 7700 xt or 7800 non xt. If they make one this gen.
@@nerdjournal Good thoughts and I have to agree with you on what a wonderful partnership it would (could) be, if as you intimated - they can. Maybe a contract with another prevents this right now. Thanks!
I never comment on youtube, but this needed to be said, thanks Jay
Gotta love how they don't even consider the competition with this, AMD might just do the same as well anyway but I think/hope it'll seriously backfire for them, prices of everything going through the roof, electricity, gas, food and yet they still want to sell at a huge premium. I mean it's fair (not really but within the rules of the market) but if AMD plays it smart they can really have an impact now, assuming they can produce enough cards though, which is a big if for them.
I went full AMD in 2020 and never regretted it, zen 3 and rdna 2 are awesome, I believe that many ppl think they'll always go intel/nvidia whatever happens but if they keep testing customers fidelity they'll definitely meet the breaking point.
I think Sony is playing the same game lately but releasing cheaper to produce revisions of their consoles while bumping the prices is ballsy, to say the least.
They definitely are considering competition. Keep in mind that they already have those GPUs manufactured. AMD has only about 24% market share. The lower it is, the harder it is to steal it from them. So Nvidia isn't concerned with AMD gaining market share. They're concerned about maximizing profitability of the product they have and the product they're about to have. Worst case scenario, they can just pump more GPUs into the market, lower the prices and sell a ton of card for a short term high income and market share gain.
We're approaching the holiday season, which is the time of year when hardware prices increase. So their primary concern is to keep the prices high for the season when everyone spends the most money.
You can't be serious... they have a division of analysts who make $70k + a year whos sole job is market position.
AMD can also move the production more to CPU than GPU to avoid having too much stock. I don't think AMD will like to compete in an over saturated GPU market that heavily.
@Eric yeah , 100%, which is why it's a shame that Intel apparenly will stop discrete GPUs according to latest rumors
I'm expecting everyone to be doing this, just the others aren't open about it.