I have a pair of Magnapan LRS+ that constantly amaze me. The clarity and spacious sound stage when you get them set up properly can surpass much more expensive speakers. I was apprehensive about being able to drive these with my Yamaha A-S801 after watching all the videos about how you need a lot of current, etc. I was assured that I had plenty of power, so I took the leap. I think it was the best thousand dollars I ever spent! My Yamaha drives them louder than is comfortable, and barely gets warm! Thank you for confirmation. Maybe this will clear things up a little.
I used to power a pair of Martin Logan Aerius with a pair of Lumley Reference M120 monoblocks and every now and then the amps would start going into an oscillation mode with one of the plates glowing bright red and another tube replacement. I am sure it was because the impedance curve of the speakers created the feedback and that the amplifiers didn't have the damping factor to recover. Real shame as it was a lovely sounding system. I'm now running ESL13's and a fairly powerful transistor amp and no problems in the 5 years I've owned the system.
Most amplifiers are designed to drive dynamic speakers. Using high voltage power supplies with capacitors to deal with peaks on the impedance curve. Magnepans, with their low-ish impedance and low efficiency, might deplete the capacitors if played at high volumes. On top of that, they are revealing enough to expose any weakness of the electronics. This is the best explanation for Magnepans to have the opinion of difficult to drive speakers, that I could come up with. High quality amplifiers should not have difficulty driving them without distortion. Avoid cheap class D amplifiers with brick power supplies ;-)
To wrap up this excellent explanation, you should beware of any speaker impedance hiccups. Below 2 ohms load is definitely dangerous territory for any amplifier to remain stable.
Even there, there was ONE Apogee model - the Scintilla - that was hard to drive because the impedance dropped to one ohm. The rest of their product line never fell below 3 ohms and had a nominal impedance of 4 ohms.
audio amplifier , complete with a good speaker systems changes with technology , older solid state system are based on bipolar junction teransistors , class AB amplifier , while a modern amplifier uses high power mosfets which utilised the latest lateral diffusion technology for better and higher power mosfet transistors , so it goes on changing and never actually stays the same .
I've been saying this for decades but people are stubborn. Maggies are a resistive load which is pretty easy for amps. Their sensitivity is very low so they need power. Look not only to a low impedance load but also to phase angle, the two together make for a difficult load.
I contacted Magnepan directly about purchasing their LRS+ model speaker and driving it with my vintage Yamaha CR-2020 receiver (which had just been recapped and gone over). They recommended NOT to run the Magnepan speakers with it. I was surprised at their response!
I find Maggie’s to be the hardest speaker to match an amplifier to. Not just because of the low sensitivity but synergy. They are my only speaker that some amps sound dreadful when paired with
Which amplifiers sounded dreadful to you? I've had the opposite experience over the last almost 20 years. Went from AB to class D to a newer non-ice class D.
@@jaakanshorter this is for the 1.7i Maggie’s. Peachtree Nova 300 sounded absolutely lifeless and flat. It has no problems driving the Maggie’s to volume but it just sounds bad. Yet it sounds full on all my other speakers. I’ve also tried a few of my vintage receivers. The Yamaha CR-820 for instance was also lifeless compared to the Marantz 2252B. Obviously both were a little underpowered. With my other speakers the difference in any amp is very subtle. Regardless if it’s a vintage, integrated or separates. The only integrated I’ve had good luck with on Maggie’s is my Luxman L-507z. My McIntosh MA-5300 sounded just OK but ran out of power too quickly. Most High end class AB amps work OK as long as you have a minimum of 200 watts into 4 ohms or you run out of headroom. Maggie’s also like Bryston 4B amps much more than the Parasound A21. There is no real difference on my Klipsch LaScalas between those amps.
I've had a Magnepan home theater setup consisting of 4x 2.5R and a CC3 center. I originally drove them with separate amps but later switched to a receiver (class D Pioneer Elite sc901). Touch wood, I've never had an issue despite lots of action movies. I do use powered subs and cross them at 80 Hz.
Good amps even from the past can drive low imp. I agree with paul. Speakers that dip below 2 only do that briefly . Just dont clip the amp and dont use the tone controls wildly..yes i worked at rockford years ago and I stretched skins on accoustats for a few days.hard work.i tapped out haha and went back to repairing and building amps.
I’ve owned 3 pairs of Maggie’s in my life, even though I realized after the first pair they aren’t really for me. My experience was, they are great for vocals and acoustic, 2nd to none, and they’ll do that with almost anything. But if you want to play rock n roll through them, or hip hop, you need something with some power to get any bass, and even then it’s not great. That was my experience anyway
I had a similar experience with magnepans. I did love the transparency and spacious soundstage but I found a a lack of dynamics and body to the music left me wanting. I bought a pair of eminent technology lft-8b's. I'm really happy now, magnetic planar sound with balls. 😁
I never owned Magnepans but I auditioned them extensively back when they were available at retail audio shops. I felt the same way you do, when I first heard solo piano through them I was ready to buy. They were very open sounding and great at midrange. But before I purchased, I auditioned some favorite CDs with a full rock sound, and they were hugely disappointing. Even the more expensive Maggies (than I was originally considering) and even with the shops biggest amplifiers, the Maggies sounded mushy and washed out. Cymbals virtually weren't there, and there was no "punch" in the drums. It sounded like a wet towel was being used as the driver for the speakers. This was about 30 years ago but I was so put off by Magnepans that I never wanted to hear them again. People say they are better now than before, but it seems the same problems generally exist. I am very happy now with my Martin Logan Motion 40's (the originals, I don't have the newer 40i speakers). I guess I could see owning some Maggies if I limited them to solo piano or other limited-range music. But I'd also have to have another set of speakers to play all other types of music.
Still waiting for you to answer the question from Greenland correctly the other day... "Hey Paul, can I use an RCA cable as a [DIGITAL] coaxial from my CD player to my amp?"
@@fkaptijn7111 Yeahi know the answer, but Paul misunderstood the very young writer's question and answered regarding the ANALOGUE-OUTS... He misunderstood the question.
You practically can (nothing will burn or explode or destroy your ears) but it might be anything between an ok result and a major step backwards. Depending on how the cable you are using can properly transmit high frequencies in the megahertz range, and have a coaxial impedance close enough to 75 ohms. If not, the digital message will be distorted along the cable, or will suffer multiple reflections back and forth at the cable’s ends, adding up into an even more distorted digital stream signal into the DAC. So that the DAC may get confused between 0s and 1s regularly, which obviously will poison the ultimate decoding and analog signal result. So you can try and some RCA analog cables will certainly be ok, but some others will definitely be shitty. In any case, digital coaxial cables are those meant for proper transmission of digital streams. Don’t be confused by the fact that the RCA plugs are the same.
@@joso5554 Great advice. Digital cable is build for 75 ohm and faithful transmission at the spec'd data rate. With digital it can be perfect but generally goes down hill from there. You can't make it better. Digital is prone to subtractive distortion. IMHO, most digital playback is done with something short of 100% of the information. The better you get at bit perfect low jitter playback, the fuller and more natural it sounds. Give up half the bits and it still is recognizable, but harsh, thin and irritating like all those early CDPs.
Ya know, it’s not a live stream. You can wait to record until your stomach issues have passed…no pun intended. And yes, there’s a difference between efficiency and a difficult load to drive. Certainly inefficient speakers like Magnepan need more power to achieve any given volume. But that doesn’t equate to difficult to drive.
The Maggie rep probably comes from their affordability. And affordability with high end speakers makes room for mediocre to cheap amps into the system. I suspect listeners with audiophile amps, may or may not like the Maggies, but I bet they never complain about the ability to drive them. That's taken care of well before hand. If you could get a pair $200K Wilson's for $200 I bet you would start hearing that Wilsons were the hardest ever speakers to drive. You don't hear it because those purchasers are already in a class with the right muscles. Just because a good cow is on sale doesn't mean a 90 pound weakling can go and pick it up. Audiophiles always take big Butch with them. And so, for them, driving speakers is hardly ever the issue---other issues maybe, but not that one. I suspect that Maggie actually liked the rep.
@@GT1Vette As a corvette buyer you should know better. Why would someone buy a ZR1 over a Z06? If you want the best you buy the best. Odds are the guy with Magnepan's will have a wife that cheats on him if he doesn't buy PS Audio stuff. The guy is a cheater as well asking Paul about other companies stuff.
Paul, what a treat it is to watch your videos. So honest and informative while you display such a friendly attitude.
Paul just being human.. and hickups is human..... Thanks for your daily vids Paul! 😊
I have a pair of Magnapan LRS+ that constantly amaze me. The clarity and spacious sound stage when you get them set up properly can surpass much more expensive speakers. I was apprehensive about being able to drive these with my Yamaha A-S801 after watching all the videos about how you need a lot of current, etc. I was assured that I had plenty of power, so I took the leap. I think it was the best thousand dollars I ever spent! My Yamaha drives them louder than is comfortable, and barely gets warm! Thank you for confirmation. Maybe this will clear things up a little.
I use the Yamaha 801 to drive my original LRS's. It's a good combination.
They're HALF the price of my headphones!
Here’s the scare: the tractor trailer just arrived at your place with 500 pairs of Bose 901’s.
Hey Mr. Magnepan , before you switch amps a crossover upgrade would be a good move along with a stiffer stand brace. After then try a PS Audio . 😊
A 30.7 is pretty much a done speaker.
I used to power a pair of Martin Logan Aerius with a pair of Lumley Reference M120 monoblocks and every now and then the amps would start going into an oscillation mode with one of the plates glowing bright red and another tube replacement. I am sure it was because the impedance curve of the speakers created the feedback and that the amplifiers didn't have the damping factor to recover. Real shame as it was a lovely sounding system. I'm now running ESL13's and a fairly powerful transistor amp and no problems in the 5 years I've owned the system.
Most amplifiers are designed to drive dynamic speakers. Using high voltage power supplies with capacitors to deal with peaks on the impedance curve. Magnepans, with their low-ish impedance and low efficiency, might deplete the capacitors if played at high volumes. On top of that, they are revealing enough to expose any weakness of the electronics.
This is the best explanation for Magnepans to have the opinion of difficult to drive speakers, that I could come up with.
High quality amplifiers should not have difficulty driving them without distortion. Avoid cheap class D amplifiers with brick power supplies ;-)
Despite a few hiccups, this video worked out pretty well! 😅
Oh and we demand all analog farts in videos 😂
hic-up impedance is now a thing
To wrap up this excellent explanation, you should beware of any speaker impedance hiccups. Below 2 ohms load is definitely dangerous territory for any amplifier to remain stable.
Tell that to the car audio guys who wire down to 0.5 ohms just for bragging rights.
Yep. These Martin Logans are pretty picky that way.
You can probably point the finger at Apogee for this misconception.
Even there, there was ONE Apogee model - the Scintilla - that was hard to drive because the impedance dropped to one ohm.
The rest of their product line never fell below 3 ohms and had a nominal impedance of 4 ohms.
audio amplifier , complete with a good speaker systems changes with technology , older solid state system are based on bipolar junction teransistors , class AB amplifier , while a modern amplifier uses high power mosfets which utilised the latest lateral diffusion technology for better and higher power mosfet transistors , so it goes on changing and never actually stays the same .
I had a pair of ps audio 300 bhk amps driving my Magnepan 3.7i. It was a an excellent match. I recently moved back to a tube amp setup. All the best.
Maggies *love* current and you better have plenty of it to get the best out of them!!!
I've been saying this for decades but people are stubborn. Maggies are a resistive load which is pretty easy for amps. Their sensitivity is very low so they need power. Look not only to a low impedance load but also to phase angle, the two together make for a difficult load.
I contacted Magnepan directly about purchasing their LRS+ model speaker and driving it with my vintage Yamaha CR-2020 receiver (which had just been recapped and gone over). They recommended NOT to run the Magnepan speakers with it. I was surprised at their response!
Curious selection of Tubes / Valves on the shelf behind you Paul, are they used in PS products 😮
I find Maggie’s to be the hardest speaker to match an amplifier to. Not just because of the low sensitivity but synergy. They are my only speaker that some amps sound dreadful when paired with
Which amplifiers sounded dreadful to you?
I've had the opposite experience over the last almost 20 years. Went from AB to class D to a newer non-ice class D.
@@jaakanshorter this is for the 1.7i Maggie’s. Peachtree Nova 300 sounded absolutely lifeless and flat. It has no problems driving the Maggie’s to volume but it just sounds bad. Yet it sounds full on all my other speakers. I’ve also tried a few of my vintage receivers. The Yamaha CR-820 for instance was also lifeless compared to the Marantz 2252B. Obviously both were a little underpowered. With my other speakers the difference in any amp is very subtle. Regardless if it’s a vintage, integrated or separates. The only integrated I’ve had good luck with on Maggie’s is my Luxman L-507z. My McIntosh MA-5300 sounded just OK but ran out of power too quickly.
Most High end class AB amps work OK as long as you have a minimum of 200 watts into 4 ohms or you run out of headroom. Maggie’s also like Bryston 4B amps much more than the Parasound A21. There is no real difference on my Klipsch LaScalas between those amps.
I like the live feel of these videos. Paul could have redone this short video without hiccups, but no 🙂
The king can get away with whatever he wants to - when you reign supreme = anything goes😊
@@bristolwoodburners81 Paul does not reign, Paul rules. Big difference 🤗
Channeling Foster Brooks🤪
I've had a Magnepan home theater setup consisting of 4x 2.5R and a CC3 center. I originally drove them with separate amps but later switched to a receiver (class D Pioneer Elite sc901). Touch wood, I've never had an issue despite lots of action movies. I do use powered subs and cross them at 80 Hz.
Maggies have the most stable impedance. They don’t really move. They’re very resistive without motors, coil over magnet.
Good amps even from the past can drive low imp. I agree with paul. Speakers that dip below 2 only do that briefly . Just dont clip the amp and dont use the tone controls wildly..yes i worked at rockford years ago and I stretched skins on accoustats for a few days.hard work.i tapped out haha and went back to repairing and building amps.
Does anyone know if the Sprout 100 would drive the LRS+ to satisfaction?
I’ve owned 3 pairs of Maggie’s in my life, even though I realized after the first pair they aren’t really for me. My experience was, they are great for vocals and acoustic, 2nd to none, and they’ll do that with almost anything. But if you want to play rock n roll through them, or hip hop, you need something with some power to get any bass, and even then it’s not great. That was my experience anyway
I had a similar experience with magnepans. I did love the transparency and spacious soundstage but I found a a lack of dynamics and body to the music left me wanting. I bought a pair of eminent technology lft-8b's. I'm really happy now, magnetic planar sound with balls. 😁
I never owned Magnepans but I auditioned them extensively back when they were available at retail audio shops. I felt the same way you do, when I first heard solo piano through them I was ready to buy. They were very open sounding and great at midrange. But before I purchased, I auditioned some favorite CDs with a full rock sound, and they were hugely disappointing.
Even the more expensive Maggies (than I was originally considering) and even with the shops biggest amplifiers, the Maggies sounded mushy and washed out. Cymbals virtually weren't there, and there was no "punch" in the drums. It sounded like a wet towel was being used as the driver for the speakers.
This was about 30 years ago but I was so put off by Magnepans that I never wanted to hear them again. People say they are better now than before, but it seems the same problems generally exist. I am very happy now with my Martin Logan Motion 40's (the originals, I don't have the newer 40i speakers).
I guess I could see owning some Maggies if I limited them to solo piano or other limited-range music. But I'd also have to have another set of speakers to play all other types of music.
Would love some Maggie's but I need the room to put them in or it won't work
Maggie’s work in any room
I place mine 6’ away from the back walls. They disappear
Still waiting for you to answer the question from Greenland correctly the other day... "Hey Paul, can I use an RCA cable as a [DIGITAL] coaxial from my CD player to my amp?"
Yes you can
@@fkaptijn7111 Yeahi know the answer, but Paul misunderstood the very young writer's question and answered regarding the ANALOGUE-OUTS...
He misunderstood the question.
You practically can (nothing will burn or explode or destroy your ears) but it might be anything between an ok result and a major step backwards. Depending on how the cable you are using can properly transmit high frequencies in the megahertz range, and have a coaxial impedance close enough to 75 ohms.
If not, the digital message will be distorted along the cable, or will suffer multiple reflections back and forth at the cable’s ends, adding up into an even more distorted digital stream signal into the DAC. So that the DAC may get confused between 0s and 1s regularly, which obviously will poison the ultimate decoding and analog signal result.
So you can try and some RCA analog cables will certainly be ok, but some others will definitely be shitty. In any case, digital coaxial cables are those meant for proper transmission of digital streams. Don’t be confused by the fact that the RCA plugs are the same.
@@joso5554 I know this.
Paul needs to re-answer the question for the person who wrote in from Greenland.
@@joso5554 Great advice. Digital cable is build for 75 ohm and faithful transmission at the spec'd data rate. With digital it can be perfect but generally goes down hill from there. You can't make it better. Digital is prone to subtractive distortion. IMHO, most digital playback is done with something short of 100% of the information. The better you get at bit perfect low jitter playback, the fuller and more natural it sounds. Give up half the bits and it still is recognizable, but harsh, thin and irritating like all those early CDPs.
loud ,BOE. thanks Paul
I understand the magneplanars would need a sub to exploit whole audible low range and a bit more
Can't comment on anything regarding magneplanars. but i'll jump in and say BOO
Chris could scare him with a bad speaker set-up..
BUH! *scare you* :p
To cure my hiccups, I hold my breath and swallow three or four times. Seems to work for me.
Am I sensing a new brand of PS Audio wine? Just kidding
Ya know, it’s not a live stream. You can wait to record until your stomach issues have passed…no pun intended.
And yes, there’s a difference between efficiency and a difficult load to drive. Certainly inefficient speakers like Magnepan need more power to achieve any given volume. But that doesn’t equate to difficult to drive.
I suspect this myth came about in the 70s and has just stuck around.
30.7’s… now you’re talking!
The Maggie rep probably comes from their affordability. And affordability with high end speakers makes room for mediocre to cheap amps into the system. I suspect listeners with audiophile amps, may or may not like the Maggies, but I bet they never complain about the ability to drive them. That's taken care of well before hand. If you could get a pair $200K Wilson's for $200 I bet you would start hearing that Wilsons were the hardest ever speakers to drive. You don't hear it because those purchasers are already in a class with the right muscles. Just because a good cow is on sale doesn't mean a 90 pound weakling can go and pick it up. Audiophiles always take big Butch with them. And so, for them, driving speakers is hardly ever the issue---other issues maybe, but not that one. I suspect that Maggie actually liked the rep.
all maggies should be made to bi amp and bi wire.
Dude, you need some Tums or Rolaids or something
If I made CZcams videos, would Never release one with a sneeze, cough, hiccup, fart, burp, or any other preventable fault.
ok
You seem to suggest having robots replacing a "very real" Paul !!
Thanks for that much needed info.
Then it's perfect that you're not making videos! 😂
Next time please just rerecord the video.
why? You didnt understand the message? I did, all that matters
@@SantanKGhey1234 Yeah, sounded nasty
@@GT1Vette doesnt matter, shared his message, get over it
The Magnepan 30.7 are ok but if the guy was really smart he would just get the PS Audio Aspen FR30's.
Why would anyone do that?
@@GT1Vette As a corvette buyer you should know better. Why would someone buy a ZR1 over a Z06? If you want the best you buy the best. Odds are the guy with Magnepan's will have a wife that cheats on him if he doesn't buy PS Audio stuff. The guy is a cheater as well asking Paul about other companies stuff.