Single Vs. Dual Plane Manifold: Which Will Make More Power For Our Ford 302 - Engine Power S7, E21
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- Previously, our forgotten Ford powerplant pumped out stout numbers in the dyno cell. Our goal this time: even more power!
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PARTS USED IN THIS EPISODE
Derive Systems
Bully Dog GT Performance Tuner
pntv.us/pn_pt_16757_5f97200b1...
School of Automotive Machinists
SAMTECH: School of Automotive Machinists
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Summit Racing
Flotek 180cc Ford Cylinder Heads
pntv.us/pn_pt_16748_5f971eab6...
Summit Racing
MSD Pro-Billet Distributor
pntv.us/pn_pt_16753_5f971f4a1...
Summit Racing
MSD Super Conductor Spark Plug Wire Sets
pntv.us/pn_pt_16754_5f971f702...
Summit Racing
Permatex The Right Stuff Gasket Maker
pntv.us/pn_pt_16751_5f971f116...
Summit Racing
Trick Flow Direct Bolt-On High Performance Cylinder Heads
pntv.us/pn_pt_16755_5f971f9b7...
Summit Racing
Trick Flow Mid-Length Headers
pntv.us/pn_pt_16749_5f971ecb5...
Edelbrock
Edelbrock Victor JR 302 Single Plane Intake Manifold
Matco Tools
MATCO Tools are the Official Tool Supplier to PowerNation
Quick Fuel Technology Inc.
QuickFuel 950 CFM Black Diamond Carburetor
The Industrial Depot
Tools, Hardware, Shop Supplies - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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nah
Truthfully peak power means far less than average power between the peaks and really between the shift points, regardless of the application. Ideally your shift points would be set or chosen to maximize average power. Shaved nearly half second off my 450 whp. Enough to go from high 11's to flirting with 10's in the 1/4 mile. It's a lightish car just over 2700lbs with me in it. With a perfect run it could break 10's, just tired of breaking trans parts for a tenth or two.
In my gen a 10 second car that was legitly street legal was just a myth, today it just takes money, I still wanted to do it though. It's a 94 RX-7 with a single turbo I run it like a drive it, so I have the spare and full interior, cup tires, no cat. If the will was there I could shave another 500lbs off, by going plexi with the glass and gutting the creature features. The FD trans doesn't like super quick shifts, and is prone to breaking syncro's on anything less than perfect.
By adding the 1inch spacer its no longer an apples to apples comparison.
Come on guys, let’s get back to what everybody is waiting for, the 300 six build !!!
brrooooo, i honestly looked everywhere. i think thats going to be for season 8
It is, they said that on their instagram a while back
A high performance build.
Really interested in the 300 inline project
Still waiting to see more progress on the 300 ford
jep :D
me to :D
Feels like Sunday morning when I was a kid. Love watching this stuff. Have a little small block Chev. that I am working on refreshing and massaging for our 23 ft. boat. Hit 57 MPH last summer, Looking to do 62-65 this upcoming season!
I used to watch this show when I was younger too. Like 10 years ago
I miss the old tnn... So many great car shows on Saturdays and Sundays
950 cfm, that's about twice the carburetor that engine set up needs.
Glad you said it. I was thinking the same thing. I estimated a 700 or maybe a 750 cfm at 6k rpm. I have a 650 but no cam or rocker upgrades.
Don't matter, they dynoed with smaller car made very little difference. But the cam is terrible.
Didn’t Chevy put two four barrels on a 302 ?
@@markmixon1121yes with a cross ram intake.
Oh I love to learn new things, but I hate the cost normally associated with the learning curve! 💲💲💲
Go and sell your horse you'll be okay!
Or maybe the wife! LOL
Man those were some very nice and new parts that were just laying around lol
When are they gonna build that 300 6
I know. Hard to believe that I have wanted to see that build so badly.
I want to know the same thing
They have. Look again. It was kinda nice. No more than they spent
Right out the gate; “we had a bunch of stuff ($7500 Christmas wish list) laying around & we thought hey, let’s build an engine!” 🙄
Logan's Hot Rod & 4X4 Don’t we all have $10,000 worth of stuff laying around that we didn’t know about?
If you have been a gearhead for 20+ years and didn't constantly sell stuff to buy something else. To can start to end up with enough parts to build a motor lol.
My friends dad has been racing since the 50s. He's probably got enough parts to build a few motors.
Including a complete machined bbc 427 pulled from a 60s vett. Back in the early 70s lol.
But I mean it's a TV show. They share a shop with a few shows.
Love to see more 300 stuff!
I love how you and Mike make it easy to understand what's going on with your projects. You elucidate very well
Waiting for the 300 I6 project
Ditch the archaic flat lifters and use a roller camshaft. The OEM did that over 30 years ago for a very good reason.
It’s economics, it’s always money that determines what we do with our motor. Anything go that matter
@@ralphvalkenhoff2887 When a flat camshaft goes bad and shreds the engine full of metal, then one gets an education on economics.
@@ralphvalkenhoff2887 When you're spending a few thousand to build an engine (like in this case) it's penny-wise pound-foolish to skimp on the cam
The carburetor changed from black to polished and black again. That’s what really made the power lol
A 650 cfm carb would probably work better than the 950 on a 302 .
You're over carbed on that big 950 should drop it down to 750 or even smaller carb
Yes 650 would be perfect maybe even a 600
Yes, dropping to a 650 or 750 will improve off idle response on the street, but will not improve power on the dyno.
@@Torquemonster440 I think it would because it is probably feeding way too much causing it to lean out on the dyno
@@jonathanlawson4667 Their dyno monitors Air Fuel ratios very closely. If your A/F ratio is correct it will not go lean no matter how big the carb is. The engine will just feel lazy at low RPM's.
Looking forward to the 300-6 build!
I am loving these builds. I grew up building engines with my dad and I can definitely appreciate the technical knowledge and attention to detail. Pat and Mike are the real deal! Speaking of Fords, I would love to see a Y Block build. Awesome show, guys!
Thanks for the information. I see I'm moving in the right direction.
Waiting on the 300 I6 Ford. Come on guys!
Overkill on the carb? Get back to the 300 inline!
On street engine dual plane much better especially down low which you skip over all of it starting at 3k.
@fpeletz a new performer eps is probably worth 15-20 horsepower over the archaic offy intake easily.....
Great video!!! I love your Ford 302 motor!!!! That is more accurate of the average hot rodder. Please continue to show the upgrades you guys make. Thank you for the update on CNC technology. I am not in that field anymore. But I still love to learn about it. Thanks for sharing. Great education.
When’s the other part of the ford straight 6 coming out???!!!
Excited to see where you go with the 300. I have a flathead 226 in my 51 F1. Have found very little info on that motor and folks upgrading them, so the 300 is very interesting to me. Still may swap out in time with a V8, but those 300's run forever. Even my 226 runs like a sewing machine. My Dad use to always get the 300 in his work trucks because of their dependability. Hope to see more details soon.
Great video
Great Information!
Love the sam tech segment. 👍
Looks like it needed another 500rpm to peak out. And yeah, a carb comparison in the 600-750 range would be interesting.
And another vote for the 300/6 here.
I agree with all of the comments below that mention Inline 6 builds
More 300 ford
Hi guys, I'm from Australia and love watching some of the stuff you guys do, but I would love to see you guys do an Aussie 6 cylinder Ford Barra turbo motor, they can easily make upwards to a 1,000HP+ when built and a few years ago there was one that made over 2,000HP at the wheels.
Those black wrenches , and that beautiful oil , on one of those Videos Mike was using
Possibly build a custom cylinder head for the 300 out of some old Cleveland heads like old racers used to do.
Agreed. Cross flow head
Love to watch this again with Pat in a pocket free shirt. lol
Pat's pen pocket game is next level.
Ball point Pen (1 blue, 1 black, one red), felt tip pen, felt tip marker, paint pen, tire pressure gauge, tread depth gauge, pen light, no.2 pencil, wax pencil..... Did I forget something???🤔😂😂
@@ImTheJoker4u pocket screwdriver (Phillips and flat head)
@@stephenparker8460
Dammit - I KNEW I forgot *something*!!😂
Ford I6 looks good wanna see more forsure
Pat is awesome
Wow! That Gauge at the 7:57 mark in the video looks like it was used for batting practice.
Dream job... I would never quit job like this
"parts laying arpund" i wish i had aluminium heads laying around lmao
Thanks for the great video 💪
Yet to see a test that covers the full Monty of manifold dual/single plane, compression high,/low and fuel atomisation/vaporisation.
You can have a good street engine with single plane and high compression with a carb with excellent atomisation for example but if you take one of those away how much does it impact ie without good atomisation and very little vaporisation from no plenum heating it can become a dog on the street, matching these elements along with ignition timing curves is just as important as manifold rpm matching to port volumes and cam timing etc !
New subscriber here fans from Philippines
There's at least 50 hp in that Ford 6 cyl 300 if you paint it.......LOL!
Need to see this test on a big cubic inch small block to see how the intakes act on a demanding engine.
Love pentroof valve covers.
Combustion chambers
@@ellisjackson3355 the boss valve covers are called pentroof valve covers. The best looking sbf valve covers other than the new proform ones.
Has anybody noticed that Topulinski loves him a speed wrench!
Came here for a 302 video and ended up with 15mins of video about other projects and a school
Pat's little hair flip on the back is out of control.lol
I could use that first setup for my 61 mercury
The 302 looks like it could use a better set of springs. Looks like you got some float on the top end above 5200 rpm.
I haven't watched this yet. I'd say dual plane up to 3,000 RPM and then single plane after that. I'm sure they'll mention torque converters...
Interesting. So the main visual difference between single and dual is that split in the entrance?
You going to do a stroker on that 300? I hear a 4.375 stroke is out there. As for new engines, could you get one of Ford's new 7.3 Godzilla motors in the shop? Would love to see you boys play with it.
Hey Pat did you use your tape measure to measure the air quality .
950 cfm carb on a 302ci engine....WTF....
should have used a open spacer plate on the dual plane intake and a open spacer plate with a 4 leaf clover shaped inner pattern spacer on the single plane intake! both spacer plates increase HP and torque
it is sometimes as good with as without,sometimes even worse with one..........very dependent on whats going on it the engine with heads,cam,compression etc
does summit have any trick heads for the 273 mopar?
You blue printed and balanced everything and you guys got some great after market parts on it you should be making way more power than that
Get the Dragy if a dyno isn't available. It's precise.
That carb is fine with the restrictor plate they're using
What's you best option thoughts manifold for low rpm torque monster for 4wds say on a 360 mopar ?
I would like to know how to get ahold of those valve covers. Part numbers,ect.
950 cfm carb on a 302? 🤦🏼♂️
Anyone have any idea what intake would be best for the temperamental FiTech?
Can you run Old Gray Mare on methanol or do a 351 based methanol drag race engine?
Torque plates are something relatively new for me. Is there data on before and after boring?
Ralph Valkenhoff A torque plate represents the cylinder head being torque down there for the cylinder bore’s are completely round
I want pat to do a treadmill dyno with and without his pencil case. I bet he picks up a few horsepower.
I’d need to know the avg power and torque of both those engines before I picked a winner
I would love to see this 302 with a tunnel air intake..
A tunnel ram intake would rob all the bottom end torque on the little 302
It might rob some of the bottom end torque but how often do you see these shows showing a tunnel air intake?
@@civilizedsasquatch6722 tunnel ram intake not practical for street car in most cases. Lose torque and wont fit under a hood. Tough enough getting a single plane intake to fit under many hoods clearance.
well, why need to hide the beauty of a tunnel ram?
Yeah , it would be cool LOOKING .
The 1 inch 4 hole spacer was used instead of a 1 inch open spacer for that Victor Junior single plane. Was there a benefit in using the 4 hole?
100% a 4 hole will be better, maybe not by much, maybe by a good amount,, but
1) in increases plenum volume, 2) you don't lose carb signals.
I have a misfire in cylinder 4 iny 2nd gen Coyote (2013-14). Spark plug's not the issue, Coil pack is not the issue, it's spitting out gas so I assume that's not the issue. What could it be? I hear loud ticking... Also, if I have to rebuild the engine, what other things should I have done to prevent further breakage?
What did you find?
What was the spec's on the cam?
I thought one of the characteristics of a dual-plane manifold that optimized lower rpm was that the runners are naturally longer.
so Initially dual plane was 1 inch spacer then huge 950 cfm race carb, then a single plane should be 850 cfm and no spacer if it already flows well. too much CFM with low powered engine will remove all the torque so no spacer no giant carb gives better throttle response .
What would happen if you put a single plain intake on a stock 302 that was EFI in a 1990 f150im just curious what you think about it but either way I am going to be doing it because it is all I have and I am poor and I have to get the truck running again and there's to many problems with the wiring so it is all I can do to get it to run again lol
It will lose torque and hp below 3,500 rpm, and be close till 4,500, then should pull higher/make more Hp 5,000 plus rpm. But a stock 302 efi, is not setup to take advantage of a single plane. If you put a Tfs stage 2, or 3 hyd. Roller cam, and Tfs heads on it later, it will haul.
What ignition timing are you running
I got a 79 F150 with a 302 ci (5.0). (G) with 2 bbl carburetor. Everything on it is factory. I’m looking at it as winter project. I’m looking to upgrade it on a budget. Any recommendations? Intake. Carburetor heads. Ect. Please help.
Howdy POWERNATION,
I'm always amazed at your CHOICES of CARB SPACERS ...
It seems you either just use what you have "on hand" ...
or you use the OPPOSITE of what makes SENSE ?
on an alleged OFFY DUAL-PORT I-6 cylinder Intake you utilized a completely ill advised SINGLE (one) HOLE Spacer (killing the Dual-PORT effect ? )
&
Now on a Single-Plane intake manifold - you install a FOUR-HOLE Spacer ? = rather CONTARIAN ?
COOP
.........................................
Great informations .. give us some builds ups about DEUTZ engine (f4l 912) greetings from algeria
There is zero for performance available for those old air cooled deutz engines. Plus being a diesel your not likely to see it on here
@@mikehaslett3738 spread informations man
Pat: never needs a pen.
I would like to see a ford 6.2 build
For some unknown reason to me, i want to see the 300-6 again. 🤷♂️
Hey Pat
Do u have an extra pen???
NO😡😂
More i6!
I am in need of a set of polished valve covers like those, any suggestion on where I could find a set?
George Martin Summit racing
@@bryantcurtis2665 Sadly to say Summit Racing no longer sells them, have tried all specialty Ford / Mustang suppliers and am told they have been discontinued.
💯
Get rid of the restricted plate with the 4 holes.
I want to go to college to become an engineer would it be a good idea to go to SAM TECH because I think I want to go and obviously 4 or more years of college
Long runner vs. short runner, decisions decisions
Question if you have an Light military tactical vehicle how to get better mileage and a bit more mph rather than 55 or 58 mph??. I would like to get more than 10 miles a gallon. Any thoughts?
Duramax
Swap another diesel in. Powerstroke, Cummins, Duramax, Mercedes
I would assume you have a humvee or h1 they are drop in duramax whoth the kit
I think people that say "pound feet" also say stuff like,
"I'm not as think as you drunk am I".
Do the constant guitar riffs make one a better mechanic? I guess I’ve been doing it wrong this whole time since I don’t have a garage band playing while I’m wrenching.
Why not efi?
@4:33 your graph looks off. for example, @4750 rpm, the single & dual plane have the same hp, even though the dual plane has more torque.
300 Ford l6.... What happened?!
Did you even watch the video?
@@gregbrightwell662 I've seen pics of flowtesting the cylinderhead for that engine from August... But i guess it will be an engine any year now.
Wait what, why did they use a single plane and then a spacer that spreads it, wouldnt that just hurt power
Since your just doing it “for fun” can I have the motor “for fun”?
@@johncholmes643 I’m joking dude relax