Was Vettel’s 5 Second Penalty Fair?
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2018
- Was Vettel's a 5-second penalty enough or were the stewards too lenient considering the race outcome? This episode of the WTF1 podcast is packed full of topics following the 2018 French Grand Prix. We discuss Max Verstappen getting sassy with the media, Fernando Alonso's Twitter activity and whether the criticism of Circuit Paul Ricard was justified, plus much more so come and have a listen.
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---- Timestamps ----
0:18 - Ali’s back! Who cares about Tommy?
0:51 - Ali’s 3-Word Race Review (attempt)
2:32 - That was unexpected
3:12 - Nice gorilla trophy
4:42 - Magny Cours, who?
7:09 - Your 3-Word Race Reviews
10:13 - Was Vettel’s 5-second penalty enough?
16:18 - Verstappen getting sassy
19:07 - Should “OOOH CHARLES (Leclerc)” replace Raikkonen?
26:23 - Where will Alonso be next season?
29:31 - #FreddoGate
32:20 - Circuit Paul Ricard - what did we think?
37:23 - Driver of the Day
42:20 - Predictions for Austria - Sport
Don’t worry - we’ve fired the audio guy 😉 Better audio next time!
Is this serious or a joke I can't tell 😁
"Dad why is my sister called rose"
"Because ur mom loves roses"
"Thanks dad"
"No problem Chilli"
audio guy penalty is still too lenient
Wtf1: please name all eight(8) mistakes where max verstappen was 100% at fault...
Can't any of you four remember vettel's big mistakes in the last 2 years alone, i can surely name a few big one's who a 4 time world champ shouldn't be making!!
Also funny nobody of the four of you mentioning max is leading daniel 5-3 in qualy..... wonder why though.. maybe its because danny is known to be a qualy beast, but max is taming him and beating him there pretty big in numbers
WTF1 is mat drinking squash?
Baguettes of the day: Ocon and Gasly
JORGE URIBE Best comment of 2018 right there!
Why Gasly?
It's a joke do you not get it
When you're talking about Max cutting the chicane at turn 1 at the start; he started 4th and Vettel and Bottas collided making them drop back which pushed Max to 2nd so he didn't actually gain any places. When he rejoined the track he was alongside Hamilton and then let Hamilton go past again because he was initially in 2nd place.
Bottas didn't get a penalty in Baku en Barcelona last year when he ruined the races of Kimi an Max so 5 seconds for Vettel is enough.
Elia Van De Berkt great answer brother
You couldnt give bottas a penalty in Spain for that accident because he was too cautious into turn one (its like saying hey! You are trying to award an incident but take a penalty).
Baku was fine but the kerb was too high so when bottas hit it he just slid wide into kimi.
Compared to vettel who just locked up due to his own mistake and killed bottas' race (Verstappan got 10 seconds for hitting riccy)
Daniel O
That doesn't make any sense.
McBaron yes it does
In spain Bottas was too cautious into turn one which caused the accident. You cannot give a driver a penalty for being too cautious therefore it was a racing incident
Baku, Bottas was side by side with kimi, he ended up hitting a raised inside curb which slid him into kimi. Thats a racing incident as well
Daniel O
So when Bottas makes a mistake it's a racing incident?...
*Jess' legs* *>* *Matts Legs*
Watch Matt shave his legs for the next podcast
Forget the legs on Matt, can't see passed the socks!! And I'm at the age to away with that! But I still choose ankle socks. Because it's decent and proper. #FreeAdvice
Advice, that's given. It's guidance or recommendations offered with regard to swift and required action. In reference, if required. To Matt's sock length vs shorts.
lmaoo
They need to switch seats
Even if he had a 10-15 second penalty he was still way ahead of the next car.(Not a Vettel fan btw)
I Am Sekou Would
Bottas crashed Raikkonen out of the race in both Spain and Baku last year and got nothing. Hamilton fans need to stop playing the victim card.
The Undisputed your so right😎
The Undisputed you couldnt give bottas a penalty in Spain for that accident because he was too cautious into turn one (its like saying hey! You are trying to avoid an incident but take a penalty).
Baku was fine but the kerb was too high so when bottas hit it he just slid wide into kimi. Compared to vettel who just locked up due to his own mistake
Bottas could have easily backed out in Baku. He decided to keep his nose in and fight for a position that was already lost, then he lost the car and punted Raikkonen into the wall. The exact same happened in Spain.
The Undisputed Max also got collected as a 2nd victim there in both races
Daniel O go cry ham fanboy🖕🏻🖕🏻
We need more of Jess in videos.
She is freaking annoying
Love these post-race podcasts
The thing is the stewards looking the accident and not the outcome at the end of the race! I don't know why is it so difficult to understand.
Nice, your brain must be bigger than a peanut... or is it?
Best Part of the Triplheader?
The three podcasts ❤️
Good stuff as always. Love it!!! Thanks from USA!!
Let's take a moment to laugh at Germany 😂😂
Tall Man The one time I watch football, Germany goes out! Me watching football makes the better teams do worse😂
F4H Calster Well you should do it more often because everyone in the Netherlands had a really good day because of Germany losing 😂
Tall Man lol!
Tall Man what ever you do don't mention the war
Yeah... I'm a Germany fan... It is just annoying really for me because it is so out of order and weird, but I have come to the conclusion that I honestly don't care and were so bad the whole group stage that they deserved it.
Nice to see Ali back on the podcast almost as good as Sam. I can really see Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso, Grosjean and Hartley all leaving/getting kicked out of F1 at the end of the year could be some interesting seats available for Ricardo and Verstappen.
Blair Henderson Hamilton has signed a deal until 2020
Ben Fountain I’m sure he could easily buy himself out of that contract if he wanted.
Blair Henderson that's just stupid to say
Blair Henderson Why would be sign a new contract then if it’s his intention to leave?
All he’s doing is costing himself unnecessary money.
Garmin Racer it’s only stupid in your opinion, I am entitled to mine
I think he should not have been penalised. Bottas' race was ruined, but it was a racing incident. It's not totally Vettel's fault, because when he locks up he can't control his car. Of course he could also brake earlier, but when you follow another car there is no grip.
Andrea Taccani Totally Agree
Completely his fault. 4 time world champion shouldn't lock up especially at the first corner
Ihsan Husandi whaaat?
Wait a minute what is that noise I hear? I think it is saying... "Vettel fan"🙃🤔
+Geralo;d Pollard yes but you dont no what was happening inside he said he tried to brake early but he lost grip and locvked up so it could very well b not his fault
Gearóid Pollard Even 4 time world champions make mistakes sometimes you know
Watching some boring youtube video's.
A few minutes later.
Gets a notification from WTF1
CLICKS STRAIGHT ON THE VIDEO.
Love your vids WTF1 keep up the great work :D
Edit: OMG TY FOR THE HEART :O
Jess, If it was Max, would you say the same? 5 sec is fair? I don't think so.
I've got the feeling they are a bit judgy regarding Max. Especially their focus on avoiding the incident without losing places (or gaining them). One of the Haas drivers even overtook Kimi I think, but he's not Max so it's ignored. Bit hypocritical if you ask me.
Daan Wmn exactly!
I think my drivers of the day would be Leclerc for his general amazing performance of late, Raikkonen for making an overtake on Riccardo, despite his issues.
Germans found it pretty easy to get into France. How hard can it be to get into Paul Ricard?
jk
Alonso's reaction to Vettel's penalty (maybe idk):"Five seconds is a joke... A JOKE!!!!!!!"
JORGE URIBE grosjean’s reaction on his 5 seconds penalty: ITS A JOKE!
A yoke *
Alonso sucks
I think your talking about his car
Also,did you know he won 24 hrs @ Le Mans!
Finally something good to listen while studying for my finals exams (Mechanical Engineering)
You and me both, man. Also ME
Vasco Moura if u like this, I suggest TF1W (The F1 Word) who are imo are better than this WTF1 Podcast (although this is quite good)
Stig 1738 thanks for the suggestion!!
Missed Apex Podcast are good as well.
Vasco Moura Auguri per la laura mate
Bottas finished lap 1 about 30 seconds (that is a guess) behind Vettel, that gap that was made due to the puncture and was caused by Vettel, that time should have been the penalty given. Obviously not after the race is finished and seeing how far down the order Bottas finished but working out the actual time lost compared to Vettel which was after lap 1 and before any effort of the drivers was made.
According to that logic, when Grosjean spun into Ocon and ended his race in Brazil last year, instaed of 5 secs, which is the standard for such lap 1 incidents, Grosjean shouldve gotten the black flag?! Get real
Andre Macleod - Well yeah he should have had a bigger penalty then 5 seconds, when a driver ends another drivers race they should be penalised more then a simple 5 seconds which is pretty much nothing retrospect
Yes the penalty was fair. Seriously folks, stop yapping about it. Both Verstappen and Gasly got 5 seconds for causing a collision in China thus it stands to reason that Vettel, like Grosjean, gets 5 seconds of penalty for causing a collision in France.
Previous years the stewards showed a disregard to continuity of penalties, now they are showing continuity of penalties and everyone is like; mah no fair, too harsh, too little....Get a grip. It doesn't matter what car causes what sort of collision, a 5second penalty seems to be the norm if both drivers can continue.
It was actually 10 seconds in China. China was also not a T1 Lap 1 incident, France was. So I agree, 5 seconds is a fair penalty.
Viridis agreed
Why isn't the title 'Vettel just doesn't care anymore'? he didn't win.
Hahah good one lol
Why does this channel have still 230k subs...You deserve more than a million!
Enjoyed listening to Tommy’s perspective of the 5 second penalty it made me change my opinion of it all. Good videos should do that. I’m looking forward to 2 (more) consecutive weeks of videos.
dude the half speed playback was hilarious it sounded like everyone was high on Molly or some shit lol
at around 10:00 you where talking about max ''gaining'' positions going straight on... Lewis started 1st, Bottas and Vettel 2nd and 3rd respectively, and they both crashed out. so max didnt GAIN anything, it was bottas and Vettel who lost their positions.
especially because of the safety car
These people are always looking for something to be negative about max it's getting annoying
Ramon Dobma, people are always talking about F1 needs to be more exciting... they finally have a driver thats more exciting and thats probably brought in half of the current F1 watchers today (because it was literally dying). and now people are like ''OH MY GOD HES TOO DANGEROUS HES ACTUALLY TRYING TO OVERTAKE OTHER DRIVERS!!!! REEEEEE''
Original post seems objective.
This comment, fanboy exposed. Nobody has a vendetta against the kid, calm your tits.
Crazy Phenom not a fanboy, I just like the way he drives and brings excitement to the track. And what hole are you living in? All the media has a vendetta against him evenveel when he crashes without his fault its somehow his fault. Especially the verstappen haters. Aka. hamilton/vettel fanboys
Where were the Merc guys who think they are better than the stewards, when Max finished ahead of Seb in China? In both the two races it was Vettel who was more hurt than either of Max and Bottas as he is the Championship contender
Vettel's effective 'penalty' also negated by Safety Car being called out for turn 4 incident. Had the incident not happened and normal racing speed in effect, it would have been harder for him to claw back the 30-40 second (maybe even a lap down) gap from the back of the field, without it.
Hungary 2017.
At the second corner Verstappen crashed into Ricciardo who couldn't even finish the race.
Verstappen got a 10-second penalty....
Bottas could finish the race.... so yes.... 5-second penalty is enough....
Am I the only one who worries about the Sauber model car's (bottom right) obviously broken track rod on the left front wheel?
You don't notice the front wheels are pointing in completely different directions?
Maybe as Bobby Rahal once said "Stop, smoke a cigarette and go" complaining about how long he was held in the pits...
If F1 wants to be more fan-friendly they need to look at what IndyCar does...that is by far the friendliest series for fans I've experienced.
The way they edited the highlights made Raikkonen look rapid. I am in the same boat as Ali because I was racing that weekend so could only watch the highlights, I'd also have said Kimi was DotD
I think they should actually implement a new rule:
if you crash into another driver so he has to go into the pits you have to go as well, doesn't matter if you have damage or not and have to wait until his damage is repaired and leave the pits behind the driver which race you ruined. That way you still have a chance of finishing in front of him but right after the incident you are behind him and don't gain an advantage if you got less severe damage from the crash.
Obviously if you take out another driver the way that he can't finish the race you get a time- or drive-throughpenalty instead of not finishing either.
This is only the basic rule so don't be like "and what if this or that happens"
26:00 I could feel the pain in his voice and his eyes when he spoke about Mclaren and Williams. True f1 fan
My take; no in-race penalty for Vettel (meaning no 5 second penalty), but a 5 place grid penalty in the next race.
The problem is that Paul Ricard is a testing track. The testing teams don't want to lose time because of walls or gravel traps
How did Verstappen gain from cutting the corner? He was in fourth place at the start, then Bottas and Vettel collapsed and he gained two places.
What Tommy says is half correct, but Vettel had his tyres so could go 250 but Bottas was limited to 150 so to say. So I agree with Matt that Vettel deserved more.
Max was mocking the media (press, journalists) because they, and a lot of amateur commentators in the net, make huge fuzz about small human errors. And keep going on about it in repeating the same questions, suggestions and advice over and over and over again. He was simply, jokingly putting the press in its place. Almost accusing them of producing FAKE NEWS. I think it was ironic, funny, mature, brave and refreshing. Lewis liked it a lot!
On the Alonos to IndyCar 1. The team does not matter as much as f1 so he should not care too much. Maybe he could help juncos racing which is a new team also Chevy powered so no Honda issue. 2. The speedway has to choose him to win even if it's superstitious just look at the Andretti curse since 1969. 3. He does not have the practice in the new chassis unlike everyone else in the field but Hinchcliffe
A Raikkonen win will feel like a Barichello win in the Schumacher era, after Schumacher had wrapped up the title.
Hamilton and vettel will not battle this year because of dirty air
I love how drivers and fans of said drivers only bring this up when their rival get involved in a incident. Perhaps a drive through is a better penalty than the 5 seconds, perhaps we should return to the 10 sec stop and go, but at the moment the 5 second time/stop and go penalty is the norm for most of collisions . We can't just change the rules mid championship without generating injustices.
I feel like everyone talks about Alonso coming to indy as if it’s a bygone conclusion that he’d win the championship and the 500, but if he came to indy (I pray he does) I think he would have his hands full against Rossi, Dixon, Power, Newgarden, etc
I love how the leclerc segment lasted about 3 seconds and moved straight onto kimi
The thing with the penalty for Vettel is that it should have been worse but at the same time these stewards never penalized any harder bigger accidents like Verstappen have produce so at least the stewards were consistent with their criteria.
You forgot the fact that mercedes screwed Bottas in his second stop when they dropped his car before the rear tyres were on. that was the main reason he finished outside of the top 6.
My driver of the day is a tie between Vettel and Räikkönen. Both drivers had some amazing drives!
Alonso+Toyota gazoo racing+ pikes peak= awesome
The mystery rapper on Christina Aguilera's track is 100% Lewis Hamilton. Credited on the song for the part
Vettels penalty was fair, his start was to fast and had nowhere to go he was boxed in by the two Mercedes
Yes, he was fast, but there's this magical thing that could have avoided the crash: brake pedal. He was stupidly aggressive and just went brain dead by not braking earlier. It's not like it was unexpected that he lost aero in the corner.
slikrx here’s another thing that could of stopped it; hamiltons accelerator pedal on a flat out straight.
Callum Penman try harder...
slikrx Not sure if you saw the view of Vettels onboard. He breaked earlier than he should've, but then went a bit on the gas again, saw Hamilton slowing down and then he locked up, crashing into Bottas.
5 seconds is actually fair, considering that it was almost impossible to avoid the crash at the point, where he slowed down the first time.
BenDaKill - exactly! Boxed in, with no grip, no downforce and no space going into turn 1. An accident waiting to happen
I've come here just after the grand prix only to laugh at Mercedes and Hamilton. "Get in there Lewis, in the fucking grass. And never come back."
Driver Predictions 2019:
Ferrari: Vettel, Kvyat
Red Bull: Verstappen, Riccardo
Mercedes: Hamilton, Bottas
Haas: Leclerc, Magnussen
Sauber: Giovinazzi, Ericsson
Renault: Hulkenberg, Latifi
Toro Rosso: Sainz, Gasly
Williams: Stroll, Sirotkin
Mclaren: Vandoorne, Nyck de Vries😬
About the title as Alonso would say “five seconds was a joke”
I reckon Leclerc could also potentially end up at Red Bull, theres obviously rumours about Riccardo and since Verstappen has done well for them maybe they would take on another young driver. I think its more likely than him replacing Raikkonen
Given that lap 1 incidents are normally overlooked, I would say it was pretty harsh.
Vettel's penalty should have been at least as much time as he cost Bottas and Alonso.
My 3 Word Podcast Review - We need guests.
Especially that guy from last week was great...
My opinion on the penalty:
-1st lap incident
-Vettle was at fault and admitted it
-Both suffered damage
-Both were able to continue after a pit stop
So it makes sense to give a 5 sec penalty, I understand if people think it should be 10 sec becuse Bottas had floor damage and was worst off, but FIA was likely just follwing the standard procedure.
If Bottas retired or Vettle got away with it then would be a drive-through.
In regards to Kimi, you have to remember Hungary 2017 where Kimi was ordered the entire race to stay behind Seb and finish second whilst at the same time keeping Hamilton behind. He possibly had the potential to get two wins last season but as said in the podcast, he is used by Ferrari as a backup no.2.
Oscar Johnson kimi is so underrated! It’s just vettel is slightly faster and the no.1 driver
Best part of the triple header, Jess xD
im about 3 months late but congratulations to 1.3 years on wtf1 channel
There should be yellow lines which tells You how to comeback to track, with markers, Just Like in Sochi (Turn 2,3).
Fun fact since the Austrian GP came back to the calendar the winner of the race has failed to win the championship.
What about Hungary 2017? Max made the same mistake as Vettel and got 10sec for it.
The only difference was that daniel couldnt carry on but charlie whiting said they don’t look at the outcome but only at the mistake itself, which was the same
I was speaking to my mates on Tuesday and also said Grosjean should be fired now.
We went all 3 days took about 1 hr to get in and parked. But took nearly 3 hrs everyday to leave due to the police not opening the roads. For the mechanics teams? Apparently Paul Ricard is known for this tho
I think the Vettel penalty should have been split in 2 parts.
1 He should have to let bottas pass again behind safty car
2 10 second penalty (if that even is a thing. only heard of 5 or 10 with stop and go before)
In the end he probably would have still been 5th, but that would have felt more fair in my opinion
Here's the thing I suspect Alonso will say something completely different about his Honda IndyCar engine.
Vettel penalty: i thought he would get 10 seconds time penalty (really think that is fair), but Vettel also hit a Haas later? How did the Ocon Gasly incident got judged?
No mention of the Redbull engine swap? That was surely the biggest news of the week
Yes it was. Plus, Baku 2017, Bottas taking no penalty for ruining Raikkonen's race. Just as an example :)
3 frenchs at the start, the three collide withh each other. What a day to be french this sunday :,-)
What happened if somebody like a Toro Rosso did the same thing that Vettel did, anything more than a 5 second penalty would be them so far back that they might as-well not finish
Bin Grosjean, get Leclerc in the Haas, and give Kubica the Sauber drive
Vettel got a 2.5 second penalty for each car punted. Turn 1 and then turn 5 right after with Haas
nice podcast! ;) cheers from munich
The main problem with F1 is that us fans are satisfied with it being the same three teams year after year after year winning. Not just the hybrid era, but the Red Bull dominance, early Ferrari dominance in ‘00-04. The sport should not have eras of dominance. No other sports league in the world has that. In America, our major sports, apart from the NBA, has a different winner every year. F1 needs that. Renault this year, Ferrari next, Red Bull after that, Haas after that, Force India after them. But it’s not possible in a league like this. And it never will be due to the structure of F1. F1 needs rebuilt from the ground up, but that isn’t possible now.
Jess defending Seb's penalty?
now, that's a first..
True.
It was just an race incident.
In the early days that would be the case.
Now its a slight bump and you get a penalty...
Get rid of the chicane, then make a DRS zone before it, and a second one after it. Just to be weird.
the thing with a harsher penalty is that those penalties have to be associated with some sort of major fault at the driver. for example at baku 2017 vettel has given a 10 second stop/go for intentionally crashing so harsher penalties have to have some sort of observable intent in them. this accident was if anything avoidable contact so no harsh penalty should be given. for giving out penalties it should matter how much the other party was effected by the mistake or how the end result stands. no matter what way you put it vettel just drove the better race here and if bottas had driven well the 5 second penalty would have been enough to give him the position although i do think a 10 second time penalty would probably have been more appropriate here. also the "damage" is just a cheap excuse. if that "damage" was so bad he would not have done the fastest lap of the race
Sebastian Vettel performed as if he went to the Sergio Ramos School of Formula One driving.
I think Alonso could win the world championship at least one more time (or atleast be competitve), but the chances that a top team will hire him are slim and McLaren is not getting there shit together so he really needs to rely on the fact that McLaren will get a breakthrough in R&D or he's done.
Corne Van Gulik he might be getting a seat at red bull if he's lucky. Fingers crossed 🤞🤞
When Max does it you blow a fuse and Lewis last year did the same on other track
Employ the same stewards for every race. Problem solved, consistency found.
You’d probably still call it unfair if the penalty was longer, but Vettel still finished ahead.
@Ali You think the chicane in the middle of the straight was France being "Le mans inpired"? :D
whats the song or track called??
In a world ruled by American voices, I LOVE listening to your stunning British accents :)
I don't get why any penalty. In every other racing sport a driver making a honest error never gets a penalty, but in F1 oh fuck you're going to get one.
What was up with all the negativity towards the chicane in the straight. Ascari is a chicane that splits a straight in half but every one loves Ascari
Ham break tested Vet, Vet avoiding crash. Bot + Vet crashed. Vet got penalized. Usual british FIA weekend.
Change Your Thumbnail for Podcast if You want Views.. And in Title do mention " PODCAST "
I think the guests should replace Tommy not Ally. Tommy doesn’t really fit / present well and is clearly just there because he’s “boss”
I Am Sekou the ones sitting on the right couch
first lap, cutting the corner, Max avoided an incident/accident/collision/ruining someones race/etc. and he did not gain a position... so? He was smart and professional. Oh.. and my driver of the day is Rowan Atkinson.
Nice programme. But the volume is too low, when ads come in, my earphones blasting.