Why Ferrari abandoned its latest F1 upgrade
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Abandoning an upgrade package is always bad news for a Formula 1 team. But Ferrari removing its latest floor and sidepod upgrade during the British Grand Prix weekend shows the alarm bells are ringing at Maranello. And they should be - loudly.
00:00 Ferrari abandons its latest upgrade
03:25 Ferrari’s particular bouncing
04:55 The solution
05:50 Learning from Haas
07:07 Who else is suffering?
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Its the HP logos. The car hates them apparently.
They need to pay the "car go fast" subscription
This wasn't what I had in mind when I said the power unit could use more HPs.
I hate them and I’m not even a car, poor car, how must it feel…
Everybody does. Completely ruined the classic looking livery
Should go back to Marlboro cigarettes
Classic Ferrari car development, now let's see how Fred manages the team when things aren't so positive
Vasseur isn't the most suitable team principal.
@@josepbenet3694 and this coming from all of your experience as TP..?
Lmfao stfu and sit down.
You know three fifths of fuck all.
Not sure what you mean since ferrari had a very difficult time last season too… did you watch last season?
@@geo.m1639 Vasseur was very good in F3000 and lower ones but pay attention to the disaster he caused in Sauber years ago.
@@josepbenet3694 my comment wasn’t aimed at yours
I've been watching F1 since 1983, and Ferrari get it spectacularly right or spectacularly wrong. They don't like the middle ground much
They haven’t done either in about 15 years so not really sure what you’re on about
Hm what about 2005, 2006, 2007, 2012, 2017-2019 and 2022?
More wrong than right, MUCH more
@@banditalley9592 More like, when they get it right, they don't know WHY they got it right. A bit like Subaru...lol
when they're not first they are a pretty consistent second or third so its really not that bad. unlike mclaren or redbull
"Acceleratedly slow" lol
Next time my boss asks me why I'm slacking off Imma say "I'm just passionately lazy"
I mean acceleration in physics can be negative which just means slowing down at a faster rate
so basically the suspension department is lacking while the aero dept is way ahead of them. Seems like an internal management issue more than anything and that's just ferrari lol
And the funniest thing is their technical director (well former one) said suspension layout was overrated before the car was launched this year
Oh Ferrari
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 They have a really good suspension for the base car Better than RB in many ways according to some scourses, which was why there tyre wear was so good, and the car was so stable.
Now the rest of the car is better, but the suspension isnt interacting well with it
If they can upgrade the suspension for the new package with the same level of compliance, they will be fine
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 lmao It's just the fact that there is so much internal italian politics it's insane. and I'm not saying that, I'm quoting Peter Windsor.
@@Mage6679I think politics are more or less in every team (look RB), although arguably the holding might put too much pressure on the management and staff to deliver until these buckle down. They are simply not technically that good to be on top of the two sides
Ferrari over the last decade have been decent at pre season development but absolute rubbish when it comes to in-season upgrades. This suggests there are fundamental problems with accurately modeling the car using race data rather than dedicated testing sessions you get pre season. Probably why they used FP3 in Zandvoort for testing as they just aren't able to learn enough about the car form races alone.
I am a huge Ferrari fan nearly every Season we seem to start off good and go backwards or we start poor and improve mid Season no consistency whatsoever
LH44 will change that
Ideally, Ferrari should calculate points based on a Football calendar season instead of a normal calendar season.
...but just last year that was not the case
@@sportbesteI'm... Not so sure. I'm sure he'll bring the strategy team up to par, but unless he's hiding some pretty advanced physics degrees, I don't think he'll solve the engineering department.
@@sportbestewishful thinking. Lmfao keep huffing that copium.
They need to give Adrian Newey anything he asks for
It took Adrienne how many years to turn Red Bull into a championship car?
Adrienne can’t save them for probably 10 years
And they should long time ago.
@@Milkywayboy Way different circumstances though, RedBull was literally a brand new team in 2005 when Adrian Newey joined. It took them 5 years to win their first Constructor Title with Newey. Oh and we can't forget that Newey was apart of Williams during their dominance as well!!!!
@@kiloty7591 but it than took RB 8 years to catch up to Merc and the only reason they did was because FIA changed the rules in RB's favour.
@@mineralwater6736 yes but, this is a different topic than what I replied to, so idk what you what me to say to this
god man i can’t take this anymore it’s constant pain being a fan at this team, consistently our upgrades are shit, the car becomes shit, i’m so done idk how much more i can take
bro, do you money in them? just enjoy the sport
who's forcing you?
@@tturi2 As fans, we want our favorite teams to succeed. OP wants Ferrari to succeed, not see them fumble every single year and say "we'll get 'em next year" or "just enjoy the sport" to no avail everytime
@@-socialcredit I guess it doesn't bother me and come to think of it, I'm probably more of an engineering fan than a team fan
Bro Ferrari's been like this for years, are you new into F1?
Its the hp logo. That made the car bad now
HP is not the problem. They need Adrian Newey not Lewis.
Ferrari moment
"We are checking"
Three years into these regs and we’re still talking about porpoising.
It’s an inherent thing with ground effect cars
I think it’s unavoidable - can’t win with the ground effect cars
@@arjunpatel5443 Seems to be the case
@@harry4454 Unfortunately
@@harry4454 other teams also suffered the same, nearly all of them found feasible solutions. But not Ferrari 🤡
Ferrari rn: Write that down, write that down!! 📝
Interesting you quote Carlos’ feedback consistently.. does this mean the Carlos understands engineering and mechanics better than Charles.??
Yes, he's intelligent and analytical.
Yes. From his Mclaren days, it was evident that Carlos' ability to work with mechanics, provide great feedback and the level of time he spends with mechanics at facilities were his strong suits. He also took an engineering course during the pandemic, so its possible that it gives him an advantage in communicating feedback over other drivers
its also because charles is a pr machine for ferrari. He does not have the guts to say that the upgrades have failed.
@@askeladden450 Carlos can be as vocal as he wants this season, he's on his way out.
Yes,monegasque is a baboon
I love opening CZcams and seeing the race has just uploaded a new video
4:00 this is such a great explanation
Agree. Not heard it explained better.
haas is doing better upgrades atm
The media played up a team LH and Ferrari pairing to be the dream team. If Ferrari cant get the car working, its going to slap harder than 2021.
If anything goes wrong, we are going to see the ultimate shitstorm
It will be, and then there is also Charles who is USED to the Ferrari car and team dynamics… which makes it even harder for LH… 😅
The bouncing problem is from their rear suspension. Ferrari is the only team to still use pushrods instead of pull rods. Which was why the tire deg was so bad last year. They seemed to have gotten a handle on it. But I believe that the fact that every other team doesn’t have this issue now and is using a different rear suspension could be the cause of it.
Good luck, Lewis. You might just end up reliving the Merc drought here next year.
I was looking for this comment. Ditto .....
“Time for porpoising” - Guenther SteinerStradamus
Ferrari adopted a Mercedes driver and their problems too 😂
The slower Mercedes driver , more salt to the wound
I’ve recently been on a factory tour of the AMRTC, the aerodynamic student placements confirmed what is already known. The porposing and bouncing effects are controlled by the underfloor Venturi and vortices at the floor edges. That’s where the Red Bull magic is. Also, the suspension is key to holding the car in a narrow operating window via the amount of anti- dive at the front suspension which is at 45 degrees.
It’s crazy how fast a team in f1 can go from fast to last
From 2nd fastest to 4th fastest unacceptable for my high standards
@@MrJoshiejchampionship possibilities to getting gapped by mclaren+mercs and being out qualified by haas is pretty bad man
It is these moments that test a Ferrari fan. And I seem to be handling these moments better than I expected, but still it is a pain in my heart
It's insane how many upgrades are actually making the car worse for so many teams these ground affect rules are really stumping the teams
I think they are OVERdeveloping the cars…I think they reached the ceiling but still expect more gains…but then performance actually gets worse…due to overdevelopment
pull-rod suspension at the front and push-rod at the back of the car. Then do a similar front wing variation of Mercedes or McLaren.
So actually, COPY MERC AND MCLAREN is what you say 😂
You have to hand it to Ferrari, if anything their consistent every year.
When did the nomenclature switch happen between "porpoising" and "bouncing"?
Last Wednesday
Porpoising is due to speed which starts it, bouncing is due to track bumps which start it
@@Redlingstein Ya that's what I thought the difference was (bouncing is mechanical, porpoising is aerodynamic) but now they're using bouncing to refer to the aerodynamic phenomenon. Even on the last F1 Tech podcast, Gary was calling it porpoising then immediately correcting himself and saying bouncing. It's like some people had a meeting and decided that now it's all "bouncing". Which is fine; porpoising is honestly a pretty silly word
they are having the same problem as the W14 last year. High speed corner instability. Merc handled that with suspension tweaks and floor geometry. Big upgrades needed if they want to become faster
Ferrari Fans after Monaco: “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-“
They sold their soul this season for the LeClerc race win lol
Great move Lewis
The sarcasm is strong in you. I think he is hot for the money, nothing more. 2 years of holidays with a big pay before retirement.
It’s going to be a gong show next year with LH and CL the team was built around CL do you think LH will put up with being number two? It’s going to be toxic.
You really think Fred got Lewis as a number 2
@@harry4454 nope LH. will now be number one a CH bummped down. Like I said it will be toxic.
@@kevinjhonson5925 nah it won’t be. Both will be allowed to race/equal and let the drivers show who’s the number 1
@@harry4454well if it was two alpha N1 drivers always was and always will be toxic for any F1 team and especially it more to a title contender team or having the best car remember Senna and prost and Lewis and Nico ect LOL
Shitstorm is coming!
Charles Leclerc - The world champion that never was
Emphatically a good video. Always.
It’s already Frankenstein rule cycle. FIA didn’t know what they were cooking. 2026 gonna be worse
I just hope we finish the season strong start fighting with the other 3, would be a good precursor for next year.
HP is breaking Ferrari just like everything that they make 😂😂😂
What about some strategy upgrades
"It's a Ferrari"
"It's a Sh*tbox"
Engineering problems are small compared to there horrible strategy moves during races. Leclerk’s pit for inters was horrendous, and just the latest screwups over the last few years. They have cost him many many podiums.
"Just another team manager, trust us this is gonna be it!“
So what I'm getting is... Sainz should go to Haas 😏
Haas is faster than the Ferrari 's lmao
Hamilton must surely be rethinking his choice.
Merc are currently on the up, and ferrari are back where merc were in 22
(Yes, that is an exaggeration)
Nah, he doesn't care anymore, he is going to collect big money before retirement. Max destroyed his motivation.
@sabataskull9661 you clearly didn't watch the British GP then.
Lewis was in floods of tears, making existential statements, and sharing love with his dearest and closest family and colleagues.
To claim that he doesn't care is an autistic statement. Do you have autism?
I how they move next year’s car ton pushrod rear suspension as well, every other team has on the grid has incorporated that as it plays a role in maximising the size and effectiveness of the diffuser and therefore aero efficiency of the bodywork as a system. If they could do that they could have greater global downforce without needing to wishfully rely on peaky and inconsistent aero performance.
with ferrari we knew that bouncing was /is what limits the performance of the car . But what about Redbull? I dont think they have "that" problem which if solved will unlock more performance. They are just horrendous on tyre wear compared to other teams since the start of the season , they lack overall balance (maybe that correlates with the tyre wear) and most importantly pace. Idk but maybe redbull should consider abandoning their latest "upgrades" too
Cant you simulate porpoising in CFD? Couple the hydro model with the mechanical and define an impulse (v0!=0) in the initial condition. Quantify RMS and compare.
“The sidepod inlet was originally a more vertical shape, but at Imola moved to a letterbox shape”
Am I the only one confused? The image presented literally shows the “old” as a letterbox shape (horizontal opening) and then “new” reducing the width and adding a vertical slit.
Do these words mean something different in Britain?
Hoping and praying Vasseur's calming influence can make Ferrari a bit more 'early 2000s' and a bit less 'nearly any other time period'.
It's clear to me that in order to most efficiently harness ground effect the cars need to have much more complex suspension systems, preferably active suspension. That's unfortunately something the FIA won't consider.
This sounds exactly like the problems Mercedes were facing in 2022. The had porpoising and just like Ferrari now attempted to fix the problem by stiffening the floor. They are generating more downforce than the suspension can handle.
When was the last time Ferrari won a constructors title?
2008
So would you put the upgrade back on for Hungary? Majority slow corners, could help
Vasseur has mentioned that the push rod is not interacting with the new update well. I guess they will bring it for the SF-25 as it has mentioned its the route they want to pursue for the new regs.
These in season struggles were there last year in the same set of races
With Cardile gone I hope the team can head in the right direction as it has been reported that Cardile and Vasseur had a disagreement and the exit is a result of it.
We need Ferrari at the front and if thr issue can be fixed in season I think we are in for a banger of a season next year with multiple teams in the hunt.
could it be a set up problem? upgrades only work on certain set ups?
Ferrari has been on the downhill at second part of the season for years now. Nothing new, always strong at the beginning of the season, then sleeping the second half of the season. They need to reshuffle the whole team and start from zero if they want to be competitive. I expect nothing but worse results from now to the end of the season.
Is the fact they stayed with the suspension configuration that nearly all teams have moved away from the issue
I have noticed that the both of Ferrari’s cars show bouncing whenever in-car video is shown during races, practices and qualifying. It has been this way since 2022. So I call bullshit on bouncing being the problem they currently have. I think it’s something more inherent in the car’s design.
Ferrari is like mclaren. Mclaren starts off the season in back foot but improves massively towards the end of season. Ferrari the other way around, but feels worse.
Lewis is panicking
Ferrari are the only team in the top 4 using pull rod rear suspension and are the only one still bouncing. Lewis hated how Merc handled until they changed to push rod at the rear and now they are up with Red Bull and McLaren
I don’t think Sharl made the decision to pit early.. that’s team strategists
Ferrari have struggled with updating their car throughout a season for about 16 years now. It is a constant problem that is stuck in the DNA of Ferrari.
wasn't Ferrari the only team running pullrod rear suspension when almost everyone else (including Haas) running pushrod rears? Would explain most of the inconsistencies with the aero package, but since I'm no engineer idk if that's the real issue...
Ferrari should campaign for a 4th race in the US, maybe at Sea World, where their porpoising could be heartily accepted.
Whenever Ferrari starts off terribly, they got great upgrades. Whenever Ferrari starts off great, they got terrible upgrades. There’s no in between. It has robbed Alonso’s championships. It has especially robbed Vettel’s championships. I said this before and I’ll say it again, Ferrari’s not gonna change as long as Fred isn’t given the freedom to change the entire structure of the team
Ferrari’s Ferrari, that will never change, politics are politics, Ferrari culture is Ferrari culture, if Fred would completely change Ferrari it wouldn’t be called Ferrari anymore….
The owners and high up leaders simply have, and will always have, too much Ferrari politics/culture.
The car is too good in the aero compared to the suspension. The development is not balanced, for me they should focus on the suspension and other neglected aspects. Otherwise they will continue to go on a spiral.
Take a shot every time The Race says "emphatic" :D
even ferrari dont know what they are doing.
Could Ferrari have regressed in preparation of the technical head leaving for Astin Martin? Delay upgrades to keep their secrets from him taking the info to their rival Constructor.
Issues with Ferrari? You don’t say! (Crying in tifosi)
Lewis must be thrilled
Because of the weather this year, Silverstone racing pace was much slower, yet Ferrari’s still having issues with the car performance, not to mention strategy comedy again.
Ferrari having 2022 Mercedes problems before Lewis joins is insane.
As a long time Ferrari supporter ( I’m talking 1980 odd) it’s simple as Enzo said … Aerodynamics are for people who can’t make powerful engines… he’s not wrong .. once you have the most powerful engine then you can do whatever else you want. Every time Ferrari remembers that they win ( and the FIA usually changes the rules) …every time they try to be like other teams …. Well we know how that goes. Oh and just in case you are wondering I’m South African and Ferraris best ever aeronautical engineer grew up 1,5 km away from where I am typing this email !
Did Leclerc decide to change to Inters or the team?
Only reasonable explanation to ditch it was that they knew it wasn’t legal.
Ferrari has their issues with the car and their star driver. Sainz has been able to make the car work for him. Leclerc, other than Monaco, he looks like a midfield driver. He needs to get around that learning curve. He’s been in F1 for 6 years, 5 with Ferrari and he is still making bad calls when it comes to leading his engineer. I know that Hamilton is a great addition to the team and we can only hope, that he learns something from him.
Sainz only seems to be comfortable when the car is bad like now and last year. Leclerc is better when the car is good. In no world does Leclerc look like a midfield driver
@@michaeltelfer3483 you must have not watched the race last week.
@@Uranswer-yu5kp Judging it off 1 race says everything lmao. You must have only watched Silverstone and no the whole season
@@michaeltelfer3483 it’s not just one race but keep thinking it is. Ferrari made a mistake in getting rid of Sainz and Hamilton will show the world how truly lacking Leclerc is. We can revisit.
@@Uranswer-yu5kp In no universe is getting rid of Sainz a mistake, and no metric is he better than Leclerc or Hamilton. Sainz aint even better thant the worst version of Leclerc. IF Sainz was that good, Merc or Red Bull would snap him up.
If Haas can dial it out, it's a personnel problem with Ferrari.
Lewis 2022: Bouncin'
Lewis 2023: Bouncin'
Lewis 2024: Ayyy
Lewis 2025: Bouncin'
Turtle are faster than SF24...Did the Ferrari engineers not see that the SF24 was already like shit🥵
Let me inform the new ferrari fans, this has been repeating since 2007. A solid car is developed in winter season, few good results including a win gives hope for wcc and wdc, gets over confident and rushes upgrades, then goes down the field and then next year is our year.
Removing engineers, tps, etc is just a distraction and a scape goat mentality. The real problem is present in higher management. No idea what goes on but many renowned journalists have already said in past about the dirty politics inside.
3:31 The SF-75 was slow, but damn if it isn't the sexiest ground-effect car to date
What a mess. A very, very expensive mess.
In my opinion this is why it’s absolutely imperative that Ferrari get Newey. Will he be Ferraris lord and saviour? No. Because one man can’t fix and entire team (like shit strategy) but it feels like every year we just go backwards. 2017,2018,2019,2022,2023 and now 2024. If we start off with a semi competitive car we just fall away because of our terrible upgrades. I’m so sick of having hope of something special and it being sucked out and basically wanting the season to be over already
Hamilton must be having a good old rethink about now.
Ferrari sf24 evolution more Like SF24 devolution,, this happens again in 2018 f1 season where they upgrade the sf71h the car can't compete to mercedes anymore the car went alower but when they remove that upgrade kimi manage to win in usa gp that year
4:20 the race got graphics now and is only longer using F124 the game well done boys! lol
Even I feel like I could make all the necessary crucial upgrades for the SF24 to be a Championship winning car🤝🏽. If they gave me a chance there would be no purposing at all🙅🏽♂️
Lewis now having regrets :p
Maybe they asked Sir Lewis on how to design the car since he is racing for them next year.
😂
Imagine lewis gets to ferrari next year and bouncing gets worse at ferrari while merc resolved it effectively 😢
Whoaah, watch the spoiler
I remember this happening to Ferrari in the V8 era. We are now in 2024.
They need to stop wasting money in upgrades and throw it at Adrian Newey. He's the only upgrade they need to have proper car development.
Ferrari’s lead Engineer is Jock Clear
Really 😂😂
Get in there Lewis!
Forget the development Leclerc needs to say NO, when Ferrari shaft him with appalling strategy calls, it’s started to happen constantly again.
i would never understand why in the last many years, ferrari brought a biiiig package after 8-10 races. why not more small package every race?
if they dont get newey, no chance of lulu 8th title lol
And even then, they must fire Lecrec and put a number 2 driver. Remember 2016.