The Biggest Cheating Drama in Chess History
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
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edited by: ONE TAKE JAKE BABYYYYYY
ACCORDING TO GOTHAMCHESS THE MOLE THEORY IS INCREDIBLY WRONG AND DUMB
HIS CIRCLE IS TOO SMALL TO HAVE LEAKS
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Thanks for the update Lud
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He went from normal American teen to sounding like xQc
FR LOL
Aware
xQcxTrump
He grew up in the Netherlands and is of Danish and Hawaiian ancestry. Believe it or not but people's accents can change over time. There's even a thing called "code switching" (Google it).
I have a similar multicultural upbringing to him and my accent changes depending on who I'm hanging out with, the social context, or if I'm drinking or not.
Now it might seem wild to someone who has never experienced it before, but this is nothing new or weird. This is a well documented phenomenon and y'all are sounding like ignorant clowns for going Qanon over something so completely normal and common.
@@NeoNeoNeo you could've ended your comment at "nothing new or weird". It's cool that you're educating us about this but that last bit was uncalled for.
Damn it Lud that prep leak theory is absolute nonsense don’t give it more attention 🤣
🐐 in the comments
Facts
Hi Gotham rook b1 best move ever
GOATham Chess himself!
What makes the theory complete bullshit? As an outsider to professional chess it sounds like the most reasonable explanation besides Hans outright cheating.
magnus chadson resigning after every game against hans to make hans a super gm is a brilliant move that not even stockfish could see
I've now just added "stockfish" to my vocabulary. Hilarious.
@@corecriticalful Stockfish worked his ass off on Wall Street so I’m glad he’s getting the recognition he deserves.
He then called is best friend Ludwig and told him he made a mogul move.
Tbh it is a childish move coming from a world champion. He's basically putting chess's legitimacy on the line. He resigned from 2 tournaments in a row just to spite a child. This is beyond childish. This can literally destroy Hans' career over speculations that he cheated. Perhaps he really was lucky this time.
@@nourmuhsen or maybe there really is a leak and magnus played a weird opening that hans perfectly countered with that third move
when i die in valorant I say "check his pc", now when I loose in chess ill say "check his ass"
@Chad 007 A video of his ass? 😳
Ffs send these bots to hell
LMFAO FOUL
*lose
lol
him*
Real Story: Magnus and Hans have been collabing with the chess community to stir up drama to keep people interested in chess
Great comment
Bruh
@@hermannlakehuntdream7678 i will report you
@@MaxEng1492 do it it’s a bot
most likely scenario tbh
“He was born in San Francisco, where is this accent coming from?” Easily the best part of the video
@Thank me later 🅥 Mogul Mail isn't his literal legal name, stupid bot. Get more believable.
The real conspiracy theory!
Probably the fact he lived in europe for years and has a dutch accent from living in the netherlands
@@mooncalf_4534 accents don’t change in a couple of years, Ludwig just showed a clip of his voice from a couple years ago and it was completely normal for an american. He’s definitely putting on a façade lol it sounds like a French Canadian accent
@@winnie8189 It feels very plausible that spending most of your time in the Netherlands (probably talking english to everyone around you who all have dutch accents) would change your accent over the course of three years.
It’s worse than “awkward” for Hans - private tournaments that want Magnus can just not invite Hans. If other GM’s follow suit with Magnus, who seems very popular amongst his peers, then Hans might as well be barred from a lot of invitationals. This may or may not be a good thing if Hans is actually a perpetual (and OTB) cheater but it’s tough on him if no evidence is brought forward.
This has to be one of the craziest dramas that I’ve seen, and I remember trying to explain this to one of my friends and it was the best moment of my day.
Boy you haven't been on lsf recently huh. This is nothing.
@@hermannlakehuntdream7678 you what
@@Bidens_Diaper ur so chronically online and obese lol
Is this sarcasm I really can’t tell
The drama now is like 50 times worse now
Hans and Magnus are A tier supervillan names
Maybe that's just a chess pro player thing?
Hans is the villain in frozen, still waiting for a Magnus
Butch magnus
Omg you're right wtf
Hans Gruber
Criminal Mastermind, Die Hard
Last Seen: Nakatomi Plaza
I’m pretty sure Magnus had played that line, but only once and that’s why people were like "weird, of all lines he ever played, you studied the one that’s been played once"
It makes sense in a way. You'd want to be prepared the most against the least expected move.
@@themightywolfie7145 yes that’s what I personally think. Back in school we would focus on the least use/ least expected topics in case it ever come up in exams, so him studying the one line makes perfect sense to me.
But I guess different country different culture :D
@@ruy399 I mean I guess I'm not sure about chess tournaments, but in other tournaments that's not how you maximize your chances for winning... you want to be the most prepared for the most likely strats not the least likely. Assuming time is a constraint and you cant be equally prepared for all strats it would make more sense to prepare more for the once you were more likely to face otherwise you are likely to waste time preparing for a strat you are not likely to have to play against. Which is to say different from a test which is designed to test your overall knowledge of a subject and so you need to study the topics you discussed less frequently in class because the test will have a little bit of everything.
@@themightywolfie7145 There are probably 10s if not 100s of lines magnus only played once, your reasoning is lacking. Also that is a lie, what magnus played was a game that ended up with the same board but the way they got there was completely different.
@@themightywolfie7145 no it doesnt. wtf are you talking lol.
What you may not have picked up on for the game where Magnus resigned on move two was that Hans was playing the same opening as the game that caused all of this - but he was playing Magnus' line.
Magnus opening moves as white for their first game were D4 C4, so when Hans opened with D4 C4 for the second game, he was basically saying "Fuck you". Regardless, it was supreme trolling, and Magnus resigning is totally understandable, especially if Hans really did cheat in the first game.
Ludwig: Parasocial social relationships are bad!!!
Also Ludwig: Magnus is my best friend
Magnus: I am not your friend.
Wow you're* smart, almost like that was intentional.
@@firstlast9500 *you’re
I see you don't regulary watch Lud's content...
@@PaddySwan I know he has played with Magnus before when training for pogchamps I believe I just thought it was funny.
@@hermannlakehuntdream7678 I hate racists because I make better viideos 🙃
(No videos is better than your videos)
From streamers to chess cheating dramas. Thank you Mogul Mail.
Hans, always in controversy, can’t hold his tongue to save his life. Truly the Leffen of chess
Least he doesn’t make fun of disabled people
@@FrankCapybara Who?
@@takumumayuzumi7235 that question speaks for itself
@@FrankCapybara No, who asked?
@@takumumayuzumi7235 once again, the question speaks for itself
The anal beads was mentioned as a joke on the official stream but insider somehow thought it was a serious remark.
I saw it live and I almost died. When I found out Insider wrote an actual piece on the anal beads, I almost died again.
I hadn't laughed that hard in months.
I thought Lud warned against parasocial relationships, and yet he’s best friends with Magnus. Interesting 🧐
I know it's a joke but they actually played chess together for those who don't know
@@tobias7001 totally not a joke
...and has inside information about Magnus use of a**l beads. 🤣
7 subcomments, with 4 of them being bots... love the state of youtube :/
It's not parasocial when you both know eachother and view eachother a friends. It's normal friendship between two celebrities, not a parasocial relationship.
"you were born in san francisco" is the best part of this entire video
Regarding the g3 nimzo, Hilary did later go on to say there is a chance he looked at the Catalan and there was a transposition into said line from the nimzo because the knight, bishop, and pawns generally go to the same squares in a different order
@@willmurderyouinyoursleep6325 what? he was saying Hikaru said that in retrospect about saying that Magnus has never played that line before. Not something Hanz said.
Journalist taking a reddit joke about anal beads and running with it while talking about a real 19yo is fucking weird, those websites should be ashamed for including that and actually propelling that into the lime light. I've noticed a distinct lack of that particular theory in any dedicated chess publications
Most journalists aren't journalists today, and that's the sad truth.
I remember in one city/town a few years back (maybe even further backl) a group of people made up this insane story that was all fake, and news stations picked up on it and started airing it. None of them Fact checked or did any digging at all, in which they left obvious clues that it was fake had they done as such, just to prove how bad they are anymore.
The weird part is just click-horny journalists finding bizarre clickbait stories instead of reporting the actual drama. I don't think him being 19yo makes it particularly weirder. It would've been significantly worse in other cases
Yeah but if he was a girl it wouldn't be a big deal right. Stop the double standard bs.
@@Battlefox64_RL I don't agree, I think the conversation would be relatively the same if he was a girl, may be more intense (more people being unnecessary sexually charged, more people angry about them)
People boof drugs all the time to hide them you think we shouldnt even entertain the idea it could be done at the highest level of the most competitive board game on the planet (for potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars)
Lud the Journalist deserves a break holy moly this week is beyond belief
Bro you summoned an army of bots. What did you do? Lmao
@@idiosyncrasy7703 I'm hiding under the table with the bread machine 😢
I enjoy the mogul mails. They get me interested in certain topics I don't really care about, especially because you do such a good job representing them. Really good stream today. I hope you're doing good, and I hope you have a good day.
edit: good job on the one take jake :)
You too, and ignore the stupid ass bots
Very much agreed ^^
This pretty much sums up my reason for watching videos on this channel.
I mean I don't believe he did a great job representing it in this case but
These generic echo chamber comments that spawned up ever since he posted about mogul mail doing well as a channel.
Clown
I still have no idea what sort of streamer world person you were to begin with, but I recently subbed because of your wholesome realness, & now you're talking about the community I just dove into this summer! Love it! Thanks for providing some coverage on this that I can expect to be levelheaded, based on your reasonableness in what bits of your work I've seen so far.
Edit: OHHHHH you're in the chess world to begin with! That explains why your videos started to get recommended to me lol
Two things
Magnus did play the position before, just a different move order but same position and it wasn’t a crazy weird position. Kinda made sense to check it out.
If someone was to betray magnus they’d give the opening when he had the black pieces. GM Ben Finegold said it’s more of an advantage to have the opening when you have the white pieces, so if someone was trying to screw him over, that was a bad place to do it at
that changes everything though, if it was a different move order then it makes zero sense for Hans to say he memorised it to the 20th move. if Magnus played in a different order then Hans would have played moves that wouldn't align with his preparation of Magnus previously used stratergy
@@obsabeshir9979 In chess, some openings allow you to dynamically transpose between many other positions, and sometimes you'll reach the same position with different moves. Magnus' opening allowed for both, so it makes sense to study variations
@@lombas3185 i didn’t go into the rabbit whole of analysing that particular game where magnus’ previously played the position, do you know that it was 100% transposed? because it’s not that i couldn’t belive it, i just think it’s a very small chance
Can’t wait for the conspiracies about how this was all a ploy to make chess interesting
[comment used to contain me misinterpreting the parent comment]
@@andrewnotgonnatellya7019 I’ve always found chess and the chess community interesting. I meant interesting as in attracting the interest of people who wouldn’t already be paying attention.
@@EvySpaghetti You can't say the plan didn't work
Comment for the algorithm. Super fun stream today, thanks for all the great content Lud.
(Love the Mogul Mails as well)
I'm just saying, I've never seen Ludwig and Magnus in the same room together
@Thank me later 🅥 holy fucking shit absolute dog shit scammer copy paste scam attempt💀💀💀💀
So maybe they're the same person!
They played poker together
you got some stuff wrong here, the line he prepared for was a transposition
Dang, I can't believe his own brother and Hans Niemann had beef.
This is genuinely very sad for the chess community. Either Hans is confirmed to be cheating and chess as a sport takes a massive hit, or Magnus is wrong and both has nearly ruined Hans' young career and potentially tarnishes his own legacy as one of the best players to ever push wood over the board. Very sad situation. Hopefully we can get more information soon to clear all of this up.
@hwat it sure is mate. Hans has already openly talked about his mental health and even about suicide in some interviews. Of course, Hans could be cheating, but the problem is that a person who’s accusing someone of such act needs to prove those allegations, nobody needs to prove their innocence, not guilty until charged, right? If Hans is indeed cheating, Carlsen is not tarnishing his own legacy whatsoever, he’ll be in the right. But, IF Hans is NOT CHEATING, imagine what such allegations will, and are already, making to his mental health, and look closely we’re talking about a person who said suffering from mental health issues and has even talked about suicide. Imagine what a damage is done to a person’s mental estate if you are accused of committing a disgusting thing and you’re not in the wrong. That really fucks up a person, even more people who have mental health issues. So, if Magnus is in the wrong, and that’s a possibility, it will certainly tarnish his legacy. Imagine if Hans makes something regretful? If he kills himself? What will be Carlsen’s image after being a catalyst to that tragedy. Even if Hans has indeed cheated, for now Magnus is already damaging his own reputation, he is acting like a petty and proud individual, if he has accusations, even better if he has PROFF that Hans cheated, that has to be out in the public court. No one can disagree that this whole drama is being handled badly by Magnus, and it is damaging his legacy.
Disclaimer: I cannot affirm wether Hans cheated or not, maybe we may never know, I’m just saying that proof needs to be provided to serious allegations as that, and Carlsen did not provide any.
Sorry for the long text, I had a lot to say😅
@hwat It will actually.
@hwat and many (probably even way more) others have said there wasn't any proof of cheating.
@hwat very true. Magnus got the ball rolling but lots of other chess personalities piled it on
@@vitortorbs1295 MUH MENTAL HEALTH
I appreciate Lud talking about this drama but his shirt has me dying rn 💀
Idea: Ludwig plays Magnus and Hans but he's allowed to cheat
today's stream was hella fun, also love the mogul mails
I can't believe Ludwig would betray Magnus like this.
HOLY CRAP, your vids are awesome. This is better than the daily news
I love what you're doin with mogul mail, you degree in journalism definitely shines on this channel
Really glad you made a video on this keep up the good work
We love these uploads
Mogul mail better be working hard now, the drama on twitch is insane
The vibrating bead thing was meme that was started by the anarchychess subreddit, but people started taking it seriously, so now it’s an actual theory people believe lol
this entire ordeal has been handled so poorly by magnus and it really feels so off seeing his behaviour about the whole situation
Thoroughly agree, crazy stuff
I mean a large part of this situation is probably not Magnus’ decision, but his team’s. If they believe that Hans cheated, it makes sense not to play Hans until they find evidence or drop the case, because losing the game would illegitimize their case to some degree.
@@darthjarjar_7918 I think that Magnus does what he wants, people don’t tell magnus what to do and it’s really unfortunate what’s happening rn
There is not really much magnus can really do different. The fact is if he speaks out in any concrete terms then everyone will be asking for hard evidence even more than they already are and he clearly has none. Hard evidence in this would be impossible to come by since the event is already done and the only way to prove something like this is catch the person red handed. So what do you do when you're the best chess player of all time arguably, and you are playing against a person who in your judgement is cheating? Ignore it?
HUH? what was Magnus suppose to do???
like valorant, Hans has acquired the chess accent!
The valorant accent is so cringe not even trolling
This is very exiting. R these going to be some video about the most recent Slickgate
Ludwig having a parasocial relationship with with Magnus is top tierrrr
Andy is the love of my life
You and me both bud
Damn, im already hurting from the browns loss yesterday... You did not need to do my boys like that.
And he said all Ohio teams. The guardians and cavs are both great rn?
@@SyWoit he just gonna forget Ohio State too? Smh
Important to note that some of the security measures like the metal detector were only added after the game between magnus and Hans
Real ones will remember Hans nieman coached Ludwig for PogChamps when he was in high school
About Hans "miraculously looking at the opening":
He explained that Magnus actually had played that exact position before just in a different move order, called a transposition.
It's certainly not as suspicious as it seems and the mole theory really is just a theory. Hope we hear something from Magnus or his team though in any case
I didn't follow the drama very thoroughly, so I might be wrong, but didn't Wesley So also said that the position wasn't exactly a transposition? I thought he suggested that transposition explanation doesn't exactly hold true.
Why would you study a blitz game for classical?
Normally a chess salty suite wouldnt sound hype to me to watch, but anyone whose watched the Scar vs Fendy Salty Suite knows this man knows how to put on a damn good salty suite
Lud that damn spec on the wall makes me keep wiping my screen every time I watch a mogul mail.
Hot and juicy gossip in the _Chess_ community is so unexpected. Good job to whoever thought of the anal beads theory, that was hilarious.
Elon musk thought of that theory 😂
@@kevinreo9107 No he didn't. Elon just commented on it. Someone on chessbrah's stream asked about anal beads, and the streamer which is a grandmaster didn't deny that possibility, but didn't support it either. Then all the news rode that idea just to get clicks.
omg elon musk moment 😹😹😹😹😹😹😭😭😭😭😹😹😹😹😭😭😹😹😹 .
the thing about hans prepping an opening thst magnus never played actually has a reasonable explanation from hans. he said in a later interview or something that he meant transposition which is like when you start from two different positions but it ends up being the same. so magnus never played that opening in that way but he did in fact play to the same result of the opening in different order. like you just switch up the move order for two of the moves.
Magnus has played the line before though, Hans talks about it in his interview, it is a transposition from the Catalan
Why was the production in this video so good
Schlatt 🤝 Hans
having wildly different accents than they did three years ago
It was funny when Lud was talking about Han's voice changing cause his own voice had change numerous times. From the zany sidekick to copying bobby scar and the to his streamer voice.
Whenever I see these videos about cheating, my immediate thought is about adultery, not cheating to win a game. And I am so confused why there is such a big controversy about adultery in chess.
"you both play with me." Lud 2022
"Kinks Gambit" 🤣
I want to stress, that it‘s very plausible, that you prepare the Sicilian and get to the exact position on the board after I think about 8 moves. German GM Jan Gustavsson specialises in openings, did a video on it and it makes a lot of sense. The point why Hans wouldn’t tell that in an interview („I miraculously looked at this line this morning“) is that he would basically leak what he would play against a Sicilian and a nimzo Indian in the span of one game, which chess players just don’t do. Currently I need Magnus to make a statement, otherwise I just don’t buy anything
Based on FIDE rules it seems like the only reason magnus hasn't made an official accusation is he doesn't have enough proof to do so without possibly being penalized himself cause of lack of proof. So instead we get the potentionally unwarranted reputation damage to a player and drama. I agree he needs to make a statement.
Well, at the Champions Chess Tour: Julius Baer Generation Cup, they had an interview with Kenneth W. Regan, who's an expert on chess engines and a mathematician, and he couldn't find any indication that Hans cheated. He analyzed all his games on the Champions Chess Tour and his classical game with Magnus. He knows exactly what to look for too: how long a player spends thinking during certain moves, the accuracy of their moves overall throughout a game and so on. Didn't find anything suspicious.
As for his voice, he said himself in that long interview (didn't you watch all of it?) that he's been in Europe for two years and that it has changed his accent somewhat.
I really don't understand how there can be an "expert" on chess cheating.
@@somebodyhere3160 I didn't say he was an expert on cheating? I said he's an expert on chess engines. Not only aren't the chess engines finding any indication of cheating, one of the lead developers behind them aren't able to see any signs either.
yes he did play that line, once. that ore than none and removes that entire point
bro this is literally the equivalent of me cheating in monopoly when I was 6
Jesus, XQC-Adept Breakup, QT vs XQC, Sliker scamming 300 streamers, Chess anal bead drama, Erobb getting 30 day ban, queen dying, this month is crazy
Ludwig, update your browser… it’s annoying me.
should have talked about Hans clarifying that he saw the opening from the transposition in the catalan
Great video just can't get over the smudge on the top left of the screen
He’s actually played it the line once, not zero times
No he hasn't. It was a transposition - meaning Magnus played a game that ended up in the same board state after x amoung of moves just by coincidence. But not with the same opening and in the same order they played before. It is even less likely that Hans prep'd for and recognized a transposition that Magnus played 1 time than him prepping for that opening.
That is a misinformation which had been proven false by the one who actually played that similar line against Magnus. Just stop parroting it already.
I can't believe you've played with both Hans and Magnus lmfao
"kinks gambit" was CRAZY
you definitely should have included that transposition clip from Hans' interview, any prep leak theory is completely ridiculous
Good to see Lugwig still covering the news while on the run for Tax Fraud
I think it would've been nice if you explained the previous drama that occurred between these two players. Like the "The chess speaks for itself" meme when Hans won one game against Magnus- that was a separate event than this, right? If so, didn't Magnus lose a game recently, against the same guy?
There's a lot of context that I feel like I'm missing and you haven't covered.
Yeah Ludwig missed with this one, Magnus also did in fact play that line 1 time, not zero.
That was a rapid chess game, where upsets are much common compared to classical time controls. The stat about the unbeaten streak is classical matches.
i feel like ”innocent until proven guilty” should be emphazised aswell when a 19 y/o is getting dogpiled but i didnt get that sentiment from ludwig
@@vwwvictor Ludwig did a terrible video tbh
@@vwwvictor He was proven guilty 3 years ago, stop getting emotional over arbitrary things like age.
7:00 Magnus actually did play that position but it was not the exact move order. Hans has explained that it was a transposition in a later interview in the SLC Tourney
The King's Gambit had me LMAO
This channel is gonna be VERY active over the span of these next few days
4:00 reminds me of LS' story with starcraft broodwar
Je explanained bis accent and the opening thing in the interview (mere exposure to different accents (which I honestly get) and the opening being reached by transposition which now basically everyone says to be plausible )
Ludwig always flexing his best friend status to everyone but me what's that about
I’m not saying Hans is innocent because there’s so much information being withheld, but I could totally see Chesscom removing him just out of fear that Magnus wouldn’t participate any of their events again.
1:56 I was not expecting the Cleveland shade this early in the morning 😔
I have a feeling there could be a lot of Mogul Mail's within the next week
Chess drama is the superior form of drama.
If there’s no evidence and Magnus won’t come forward with information, then… innocent until proven guilty.
It was just yesterday that I was thinking lud will definitely make a video about this hot drama now and I got a mogul mail in the morning.
They need to play it in an airport so they have to go through the full body scanners that see EVERYTHING.
7:34
"Now I saw the event, they had metal detectors and shit. I dont think that guy stuck analysis beads in his ass to cheat"
Ludwig Ahgren, youtuber, streamer, visionary
This is a really funny video topic when you consider the context of all the other drama going on at the same time
"we can make a show about it, King's gambit" took me out 💀😂
realny pushing the xQc formuła with that angle, room and RGB in the bg. keep grinding
Theater kids aren't the only ones who gotta memorize lines
respect to you for covering something on your friend
Bro ur a minute in to the video
@@ethanmoreno5375 it's not like the whole thing is changing. He's still covering it
@@White_Knight_Realwut
In a nice biased way
This accent thing is real. I even do it sometimes when i hear other accents for a long time. Some people just can’t articulate as well when they’re talking about something passionate to them
Oh my god I totally forgot about that video you made with Hans! Wow that was a while ago.
I burst out laughing when Lud mentioned this 7:30
He prepared for the transposition, which is essentially the same position with different moves to get there.
Can't wait for the Slick drama Mogul Mail
Magnus tweeting that cryptic message then disappearing is either shady or suspicious. Suspicious as in im wondering if this was manufactured drama to keep attention in the chess community. Tinfoil hat on