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Play Magda and you'll understand why Sol Ring is still being run.

As the resident Sol Ring hater, I took Sol Ring out of all my decks. (TLDR - it's broken and shouldn't have ever been printed). I found this extremely freeing, because I didn't have to tune my deck to the 1/99 chance of having a Sol Ring and how I'd have to twist my mana curve to capitalize on the extra mana. In my mind, if you have a Sol Ring, the next best thing to do on top of that is T1 Sol Ring > Talisman/Signet/etc. This starts to eat at all of the ramp slots. Without Sol Ring, I can just focus on like, Llanowar Elves-> Cultivate -> 5 drop, or Signet -> 4 drop or whatever the deck is trying to. This is possible because like 99% of non-sol ring cards cmc 1-3 make ONE FUCKING MANA. Except for like, Eladamri's Vineyard and Worn Powerstone. The card is simply not like the others. It's using meters and everyone else is using feet. I guess my point is it is impossible to plan around Sol Ring. There's games where you draw Sol Ring, and then there's all the rest. The math for Sol Ring games does not apply to the math for non-Sol Ring games. You can't have a curve that fully supports Sol Ring and the rest of the ramp available to you in magic. Obviously it will usually overshoot so its a bit of a first world problem but there's always that feeling for me where I didn't make full use of the card. Taking it out of all the decks really felt like a weight was lifted from the design space of all the decks because it closed off that 1% chance (i guess 8% with your starting hand) that the deck would turn into a different deck. Edit: forgot mana crypt and vault exist also. Same basic problem, but I don't have 25 of them lying around.

Simply don't play it turn one

This whole video how I built my Syr Gywn deck lmao

Rule zero shit is why I stopped going to LGS

Establishing your commander is almost always an important step to furthering your game plan and sol ring almost always assists in doing so quickly. You can also just not play sol ring t1 if there's a better option. You may want to prioritize a creature to remove summoning sickness for t2, but then you can play sol ring t2 and play a 3 drop. Additionally an exceptionally powerful play pattern is playing sol ring, an arcane signet, fellear stone, or a talisman into a 1 drop t1.

MADMAN!!!!! 🔥🔥🔥 (haven't watched past 1:30 [yes, I disliked and unsubscribed {Btw I'm doxxing you rn]})

I stopped running sol ring in most of my decks because i tend to be low enough to the ground with my curve and hungry enough for colored mana that im usually only getting 1 generic out of an activation of it, which makes my curve feel clunky and awkward. It ultimately accelerates my gameplan by maybe a single turn at the cost of me being targeted in the early game, which is probably going to cost me more tempo than the sol ring gained me.

These are all great arguments against playing too many weaker rocks, but Sol Ring is just that much better than the rest. I'm disappointed by the shallow level of analysis in this video - why can't you just play your Sol Ring on turn 2? Why is it so much better to have your turn 1 play out on turn 1 than it is to have it out on turn 2 and be up 2 mana for the rest of the game? Sol Ring, being fast mana, doesn't slow you down, and doesn't actually dilute the synergy pieces in your deck, because it generally fits into a land slot (being cheap, fast, permanent mana).

Well and also sol ring to play your commander immediately you definitely need to get into a better position before going into game plan mode.

Okay this whole idea that sol ring is bad , or is toooo good .... Is funny. Look some of my decks want that god hand Sol ring , signet , into 1 drop creature. Turn 2, 4 resources and commander. ( Ixhel, Scion of Atraxa ) Not only keeps me up curve but also lets me get in for early poisoning on my opponents. sol ring is bad in bad hands/draws, and Sol ring takes okay-ish hands to omg I can play that turn 2/3!!!

For Varina (tempo) if I have a 1 cost zombie and sol ring in opening hand, I'm more likely to play the zombie. Cause having as many zombies out before I play Varina is the focus. So I play sol ring on a turn that supports this.

I was already considering reducing how many decks I have just to concentrate the power of my decks in fewer of them

Sol ring is still good in all hos examples, the strefan one he explains himself in the video that the problem is strefan turn 1 not sol ring turn 2, the agressive deck example sol ring turn 1 is probably bad, but sol ring turn 2 to get a turn 3 creature on turn 2 accelerating your hyper aggressive strategy is awesome. ( in the specific case of a two mana commander with no generic mana cost, you probably want sol ring on turn 3 to get a 4 mana spell out, or two 2 mana spells. )

I get sol ring and my opponent burns single target removal on my commander, the one card I will have access to later in the game even if they spend removal on it? Deal.

turn 1 sol ring: I sleep turn 2 sol ring with a 3 drop: real shit

I don't play Sol Ring, nothing against the people who does, I just don't

Ive been playing since 98 and im still not that good, but I like your strategy

I think a lot of casual players dont realize just how good sol ring is. It's so good I play it in my Hogaak deck despite the fact that mana can't be used to cast hogaak. It accelerates everything your deck does, not just the turn you drop your commander. It can make it so you have mana to play your turn 2 spell AND have mana left to answer a treat from an opponent. It's one of the best cards ever printed.

Nice vid! I'm playing braids and i'd love to focus the deck into sacrifice. My question is, why Kokusho, junji or grave pact are not on the list? Is a matter or budget or simply you don't like them? Thanks!

I think the point of this video is to really ask the question, does Sol Ring belong in my deck and that sometimes the answer will be no. I do see the benefit to not playing it right away and jumping ahead of the curve, which wasn't really covered here. If you're playing casual commander, Sandbagging is an important and overlooked strategy. Don't be the first to jump ahead or you will be ganged up on. Sometimesz just leave Sol Ring at home. Many of your decks will thank you

Any argument like this breaks completely when you are talking about “high power” a.k.a. “Not cedh”. “What’s the best way to build a not that good deck?” Is just kind of a non starter. If you mean “objectively” then look at cedh decks. I play exclusively cedh. I have seen a couple people play no sol ring in a couple decks; Yuriko and a guy who was trying to play Rakdos, Lord of riots as a cedh deck. They both ended up back on sol ring to help cast the bigger bombier things in Yuriko (you don’t actually HAVE to play sol ring turn 1. And in order to power out two mana rocks or hard cast big things in Rakdos. You are confusing these questions; 1) should I always play sol ring turn one 2) is sol ring a good card. Plain and simple. You shouldn’t always play sol ring turn one. Not in all strategies. Sol ring is a broken card and there may be literally zero decks that shouldn’t play it. But you shouldn’t always play it turn one.

This is why I play with Magmite and Ornithopter in my Kamiz deck 😅

I think the real argument here is 'how' you play sol ring. The real challenge is understanding when to show value and when to become a threat. Much like cedh, and seeing your 'opportunity to win', is how you should play strong cards like this or dockside.

I have one deck that does not have sol ring. It’s 4 color omnath that cares about activating land abilities to control the game until I can reach a land-based combo. I have received multiple questions and comments on the fact that it is not there saying I am actively losing out in n power for excluding it. But I have a few reasons. 0) At the beginning it was because my deck had a restriction of “every card says the word land on it” but I since broke that rule, so I can’t use that anymore. There’s non personal-restriction reasons as well. 1) The deck is very color-specific mana hungry. I NEED green and sol ring doesn’t make that. I also run a ton of colorless utility lands, which does not help the issue. Omnath is 4 mana of specific pips. Plus needing over 70% green mana just to function. Any more colorless mana in the mix is just too tough. 2) It’s a dead draw. Late game, I might need a land to cast a spell with retrace or to trigger a tatyova. A ramp spell like explore or growth spiral gives me another shot at a land if I don’t draw one. Sol ring can’t help with that. 3) My deck is already very good at ramping on turn 2 and I have tap lands to help with my fixing. I often don’t need or want a turn one play. I wouldn’t be able to use it even if I had it because I’m trying to play a triome to get access to green and two other colors. This is a highly synergistic landscape deck that relies on a density of land-based effects to build an engine and close out games. My deck just doesn’t want the effect of ‘add two colorless mana’. It’s always a good idea to take a look at what kinds of effects your deck needs.

Thumbnail call out i woke up on the right side of the bed square up bro lol

Yeah while it can mess up your turn one curve it can lead to a double spell turn 2 with 2 2 drops

Sol ring bad no, mana vault bad yes lol

what about just not casting your commander trun 2, instead get out more value pieces?

Maybe is a stupid idea of a noob player but I'll put world fire in the deck. Since otharri has haste and since he create token tapped and attacking during combat phase (pretty much they have haste), if u have at least 2 exp counter on you, playing world fire u can reset the table and put your adversaries at 1, cast otharri from commander zone and attack immediatly with him and 2 more creature 1 for each adversary. End game!

It's pronounced MarChesa, like the C in "Caspian" or "Card"

I feel this a little bit. I took out cultivate from my mothman deck just because it shuts out the many INCREDIBLE 3-drops that when mothman comes out the turn after, generate incredible damage or value.

It was such a good deck right out of the precon

This should have just been a series on overextension and removal. If you play your commander into removal, that's dumb. If you play turn land + 1 sol ring into 2 cmc synergy, turn 2 into 4cmc synergy, turn 3 into commander and 1cmc synergy, then you're above the curve by as much as 8 mana. Even if you skip turn 1 cause you can't play into 2 colorless, you can still cast a 4 cmc on turn 2. If you play into removal, you risk it/bait it out, or you punish those who are more casual and refuse to run any removal. Play politics so that you aren't making it 3 vs 1 by turn 3 or be prepared to end the game fast. Have removal so that an opponent with turn 1 Sol Ring isn't going to end the game. Sol Ring is bad if players are bad.

Its just a situation of improving as a driver for your deck. There might be a situation whre you can either do sol ring or a one drop that actually furthers the plan, and analyzing what the sol rings mana is actually going to do for you. Sol gives 2 colorless, but its colorless. so unless theres something you can do with that colorless like playing another manarock, it might be a better turn one to play that one drop and save the Ring for turn two or three

I am a 5 deck enjoyer :D

You actually provided a pretty good argument against too much ramp. For example, i took almost all ramp spells out of my Kathril, Aspect Warper deck because playing my commander on turn 4 with like 1-2 keywords is nonsensical, so i'd rather spend turns 2 and 3 playing self-mill cards like Grisly Salvage or Crawling Infestation than ramp. Sol Ring is still in the deck however, as it's too good at making my setup cards come out earlier. A good reason for exclusion is that of power, which you also mentioned. Sol Ring is an insanely strong card and i don't understand Wizards' decision to make it an auto-include with so many reprints, Mana Crypt is almost identical but didn't get the same treatment. This has actually been a common topic of discussion on my friend groups' commander tables, and i hope we will all agree to exclude the card one day.

Do you think Kamiz, obscura oculus, is an example of a deck that doesn't want the early ramp since it wants to play cheap creatures then the commander?

cureve haha 1:22

There are precisely ZERO decks that benefit without Sol Ring. There is no argument to be made, unless you are going for peak hipster subversion.

100% agree. My willowdusk deck cuts sol ring bc im making plays turns 1-4 that require only pips. It’s for the most part a wasted slot. A land/dork does more.

I would say the the biggest crime of sol ring is that it goes mana positive the turn you play it. As in, it is like a colorless rite of flame that did 3 lines. My main point is this: Take the Fynn the fangbearer for example, you probably do not want to turn 1 sol ring. However turn two, you might want to play sol ring, and use it to cast Fynn, and use the leftover mana for a 1 mana colorless thing. You might not have this, so you can keep sol ring for a 4 mana card on turn 3. And unlike rite of flame, which is temporary, it will help you on your future turns. To further put light to this argument, it is banned in vintage and restricted in legacy for general power level concerns. Which to me is an easy sign this card is very strong, probably on par with moxxen. Regardless, there are decks it could be bad in, but even in my 4 color Lurrus as companion deck where the curve ends at 2, it is still worth it, if I didn't cut it because I think the card is not "unique" enough. I do not think that even in a low to the ground deck, sol ring can be bad. The only reason I can see sol ring being bad is if you have no consistent use for colorless mana. As sol ring makes more mana than a normal land, and even the turn you play it, it goes mana positive just like an untapped land. TLDR: If you have a hard time using colorless mana, sol ring can be bad in that specific scenerio, in any deck that wants at least some colorless mana, sol ring is generally better than any ramp, and most lands and rituals. Its bad because: "The quality is so high it really should not be allowed in something like commander on a casual level". The quality being high and it being too strong is I think the single most backwards way of justifying something is not good. Is it fair? No, it is the power level of a mox, arguably a card on the level of the power 9. Is it really that good? Yes, it is a cedh staple, restricted in legacy for power level reasons and overall a powerhouse. All the way at the end, you bring up a deck that only wins if it is two turns ahead (provided by sol ring). I would agree that could be problematic, and might be a reason to cut sol ring, however that would be a feels concern, and not one of sol rings power level.

I play an Alesha Aristocrats deck with an average mana cost of 2.57 and a Zada deck with an average mana cost of 1.88. My decks usually have low mana curves. Sol Ring is broken. Sol Ring is not Ramp, Sol Ring is fast Mana. If you can make use of the 2 colorless then it is worth it. I wouldn't play Sol Ring in a Mono Color deck where you overwhelmingly play cards that only cost mana pips. LIke White Wheenie or Elves. Otherwise: Sol Ring is broken. I mean, Land, Sol Ring, Talisman is a crazy fast start for anyone, playing a 5cmc Commander on Turn 2, or your Turn 2 and Turn 3 play on Turn 2, and having Mana up for interaction (Swords, PTE, Stifle, Spell Pierce..) on turn 1 is nothing to sneeze at either.

I think the real issue here is that after playing a turn one sol ring you are misplaying in the examples, that's not sol ring being bad, that's just bad execution.

If you know your Commander is going to be removed as soon as it hits the battlefield...just dont play it If you cant protect it? Just because you have 4 Mana doesn't mean you have to Play your 4 CMC Commander, simply play other Setup/ Playoff pieces.

Your argument is so flawed its not even funny anymore. Stop arguing under the assumption of a perfect world and start realizing we dont get those hands alot. Card draw is rng. And as others have said too, then dont play ur damn sol ring turn 1 if u got smth better to do. Play it turn 2 together with ur 2 drop so that turn 3 u can suddenly do more then expected.

I like somring turn 2 or 3 Turn 1 only if i got nothing else even after mulling to 5

The thing is, in given scenario , if you have enough lands + cards to go from turn 1 to 4 and a sol ring on top of it, playing it turn 1 wont disrupt you, since you should be able to play your original turn 1 and 2 together on turn 2 because you have enough mana. Only way you wouldnt would be if you need double of one color mana plus one of the other color

The example you gave with Strefan and sol ring is really dumb, us as the player chose what to play if we are so ahead on mana and we know our game plan, knowing thta playing our commander is a bad idea, just dont play it and play the engine.

If your commander beeing out early doesn’t do anything then don’t play him early. In this situation where the sol ring makes you skip your turn 1 and 2 play and instead turns them into „do nothing“ turns that’s just a bad decision. You cannot judge a card based on what it does in case of a player misplaying. You don’t even have to play the sol ring turn 1. it always makes +1 in mana so you can play it at any turn you like. If you don’t want the attention early game just treat it as a ritual with upside. Anyway regarding the last point. I stopped putting fast mana in my decks long ago and also don’t play the ring anymore