Crisis Series #43: Schismatic? Excommunicated? Irregular? What's the Status of the SSPX?
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- Today we’ll dive into a question that is very confusing for a lot of faithful - and as you’ll see, it’s confusing for some within the Church itself - what is the official status of the Society of Saint Pius X within the Catholic Church? There are accusations that it is schismatic. Or at the least, that it has a “spirit of schism.” Another common accusation is that the Society is not part of the Catholic Church, since the Vatican has used the phrase “not in full Communion.” Let’s look at what that phrase means, and whether or not it’s even possible to be “not in full Communion. And finally, are the priests and bishops of the SSPX excommunicated?
There’s a lot of misinformation out there - let’s try to clear it up!
More Detail on this topic:
sspx.org/en/what-canonical-st...
A Canonical Study of the 1988 Consecrations:
sspx.org/en/canonical-study-1...
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Fr. Robinson your style of presenting and teaching reminds me of a former Theology professor who told us, he only wanted three things from students. We were to be, "clear, concise and correct." You are a wonderful teacher. May god continue to bless you with many graces.
I love these guys! So logical. So grounded. So honest and humble. I wish I lived within 100 miles of an SSPX chapel.
Move if you can. They have transformed my life.
I recently reverted back to the Catholic Church having been away for over 20 years. There is a SSPX church close about 30 mins away from my house and I have been attending faithfully for the last 2 months. Having never experienced the Latin Mass growing up it was a bit awkward at first, not knowing anything about the Liturgy, chants, etc. However, I can never see myself going back having now experienced the Latin Mass. So reverent, beautiful, holy, and sacred. My faith is stronger than it's ever been. Glory to God and Praise be to Jesus Christ!
@@AV1776 same goes for me! I wish I lived closer but it’s worth the drive!
@@proulx1q Can you explain in what ways?
We live over an hour away, but is well worth the drive.
I love Father Robinson. Like so many priests in the sspx he is incredibly well educated, kind, and thoughtful. Enriching.
Yes, it's called a REAL Catholic Formation.
That is true charity
The status of the SSPX: Based.
Oh, this is great 😂
😀
Lolol FACTS
Facts! The SSPX were unjustly treated by the Church!
I am not a member of SSPX. I've heard the accusations from "inside" the church, and now want to hear from the other (SSPX) side. And I am grateful for the excellent explanation and help clear things up.
Anytime someone wants to go on about how bad and disobedient Abp Lefebvre was, I just say I’ll raise you a Mahoney, a Hunthausen, a Dearden, a Weakland, a McCarrick, a Kasper, a Marx, a Martini, a Schillebeeckx, a Rahner, a de Chardin, a Kung, a Congar, a Von Balthazar, a de Lubac, a Curran, a Rohr, a Martin SJ, a Hessburg, a-
You get the picture…
I guess obeying the tradition of the one true church instead of the liberal modernist magisterium is schism 😂
The more I learn about the SSPX, the more I am drawn to them.
There’s just so much confusion as to their status and it all depends upon who is talking as to whether we would be outside of Holy Mother Church if we were to go that way.
This past weekend, we asked an FSSP priest if he would suggest going to an SSPX chapel if we lost our diocesan TLM and only had the N.O. He didn’t hesitate to say we should go SSPX. I pray the Holy Spirit will help me discern this for my family.
For what it's worth, Cardinal Luis F. Ladaria, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, recently granted an interview to the Spanish magazine Ecclesia.
The following is a rough translation of a section of it in which he says explicitly the SSPX is not separated from the Catholic Church:
"We have only doctrinal competence, we no longer have liturgical competence and we no longer have the competence of religious life or associations. We must ask the Lord to enlighten us all because dialogue is a bit stagnant, there has been no progress for a long time. For this reason we must ask the Lord to help us, because unity is a gift that comes from God, it does not depend on us and that with this help we can overcome these difficulties. It is something that depends on Our Lord and we must ask that He open the way for us to achieve fuller unity, because it is not that [the SSPX] are separated from the Catholic Church, but the union is not perfect at this time."
www.iltimone.org/news-timone/card-ladaria-dialogo-lefevbriani-stallo-non-separati-dalla-chiesa/
And there are certainly no censures or penalties applied to faithful who assist at SSPX Masses, such that you could be put outside of the Catholic Church by going to an SSPX Mass.
@@SSPX Thank you for your response. It was most helpful.
I have subscribed to your channel and am watching your videos every day. I take my role as head of my family very seriously and want to do the right thing here.
Based. SSPX is not schismatic.
TRUEST words.
✌🌹✌🌹✌🌹✌🌹
Modernist are
Marvelous presentation. Thank you, gentlemen.
I’ve said it before and after 70 yrs myself as a Catholic, The Mass was codified at the Council of Trent… we the Faithful commit no schism attending a Mass at a Society Chapel. Schism only plaques you if you enter into discussions above your pay grade. Go to Holy Mass, Lead a Catholic Life and leave the political religious infighting to the hierarchy. ✝️
This is incredibly well put.
Excellent presentation. The information about jurisdiction and intention really help.
Thank you! I so appreciate the sspx news for these podcasts
GOD BLESS SSPX FROM AUSTRALIA DEO GRATIAS
Another fantastic episode. Thank you for your work.
How awful that the Church has been so harsh on these good and holy priests who want to save souls. How dark and vindictive are the V2 heretics. Blessed Mother pray for SSPX!
Excellent
I'm glad for the sspx, look at sspx Britain,the truth is we have never deviatet,it is my dream to join the society as a priest,I love my society,and feel we can lead people to god,we help people with a rock solid faith,I thank my brother's for teaching me the truth,. God bless the sspx,and our patron....Pius 10
This is a tough topic on a Friday. 🙂Nevertheless, great information. This just reinforces what everyone needs to here.
I support it, Father!
Yes, it is good to pray for the Pope, Bishops and Priests, as Our Lady of Akita asked us. Pray that they realize modernism is from satan himself and that they come back to the Faith Of Our Fathers.
-Excellent!
Well done.. thank u
Is there a possibility that FSSP priests and parishes can be assimilated into the SSPX once the FSSP is disbanded?
I truly hope so. We need every good and faithful priest there is.
Are they disbanding the FSSP?
@@paulawarnes9951 maybe after the latest instruction from the CDW
Unite the clans!
Inevitably the need for new bishops will arise, how will this be accomplished? Can auxiliary bishops consecrate other bishops?
May JESUS our only High Priest Himself intervening, solve the SSPX problem so we can truly move towards ONE Church...we humbly pray. Amen
I belong to an FSSP parish. Speaking to one of our priests he referred to the SSPX as being "just like Protestants"--just doing their own thing.
I don't see that is really a fair view.
I think Traditional Catholics have to begin to stand together, setting aside their particular differences, and acknowlege the MOUNTAIN of things they hold in common, and working together to oppose those abusing their authority in Rome and the visible hierarchy.
They say we are disobedient to the Pope---our spiritual father.
Yes, we are supposed to honor our fathers---our natural and spiritual fathers.
But should we then be bound to ABSOLUTE obedience no matter what?
If your natural father, whom you are supposed to honor and obey, told you to take a gun and rob a bank, are you bound to obey?
Does such obedience honor him?
Use your reason.
Now, what about Pacha-mama?
The SSPX position is that there is a state of emergency in the Church, therefore disobedience to some commands at this time may be prudent. Honestly, after Francis' motu proprio one would think that every FSSP,, and ICKSP priest would agree with the state of emergency, but apparently there are still a few unconvinced... I hope as you do that the traditional orders will find some common ground and stand together
@@David-nl8pw As has been evinced by one event upon another since 1989 the SSPX has been repeatedly vindicated. Obviously, the were more right in 1988 than anyone, perhaps even they, imagined at time.
I attend FSSP sometimes but consider myself SSPX. Unfortunately there is some bad blood between the two since the former split from the latter.
@@jackieforestieri3010 one of them accepts the errors found in Vatican II so there’s a bit more than bad blood.
The decision is coming for the FSSP. Eternal Rome or Modernist Rome.
No. The head of the FSSP, was at are Church recently and he had the physical letter from Pope Francis that the FSSP are safe.
Great episode. Something I've been meaning to ask for a while, is what song do you use for the intro music?
We have SSPX, the FFSP, Eclesia dei, Sedevacontists ( forgive misspelled words) Novus Ordo with some Parishes saying the Ad Orientum as I understand it all. This is like most families and obviously dysfunctional as each claims their superiority over the others? It's like a Catholic reformation and in ten years there probably will be more? I talked to one lady who's even bolted from the Sedevacantists saying not even they have it right now! She thinks only scripture reading at home is now the way to be "Truly Catholic" lol. I asked her how do you receive the Sacraments? She said no Priest has that authority any longer due to holy orders that weren't valid? After much listening to all the parties and a detailed dive into Bishop Marcel Lefebvre I can say SSPX has the best argument on this very important subject.
Fr Robinson - I am being told by my diocesan priest that the SSPX sacraments are valid, but illicit. I don’t know how to respond to this comment even after watching this series (AN EXCELLENT SERIES, by the way) and have watched the Taylor Marshall podcast. Please explain…..
He further stated that the SSPX people are always so angry, which has never been my experience what I have attended the SSPX near my home…. Thank you and God bless you!
Dear Ed,
We do receive authorization for confession and marriage, the only two sacraments that require jurisdiction for validity.
For the other sacraments, we have a right to confer the traditional sacraments because of the crisis of the Church and the need of the faithful to receive sacraments in the traditional rite. [It would be hard to explain this to someone (like a priest who sees no problem saying the New Mass) who does not realize how grave the crisis is, and why going to the New Mass and receiving the sacraments in the new forms is a problem. - Fr. Franks]
People portray us as angry but those who get to know us realize that is not the case!
In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Fr. Paul Robinson
@@SSPX Fr Robinson,
Thanks so much for the response.
I know that anyone telling the truth these days gets the wrap up smear campaign and can only attribute the response from the NO priest as one of parroting “the company line”. It’s too bad because I get along with that priest.
JMJ,
Ed
thank you Fr.
I hope the society is working towards having at least one chapel in each state some day (We could use one in Wyoming ;) )
AVE AVE AVE MARIA AMEN
I like the theme tune music!
My local diocese falsely claims my local SSPX is in schism. How do I combat this? Saint Thomas More, specifically.
Pls consider Indonesia in missionary.
There is Holy Mass celebrated somewhere in Jakarta by Priests from Society of Saint Pius X. If you would like to know, you may contact me personally. Pax 🕊
SSPX is GREAT! You are doing great service to your essence JESUS CHRIST the TRUE PRIEST. Keep holding on to faith, love and hope in the TRUTH. what is the Jesuit are doing? They should be checked out for all their funny dealings!
This is a very unusual situation, I know we are called to obedience, yet I understand the importance of the Mass pre-Vatican II. I do love the Traditional Latin Mass. I understood that Pope Francis is leaving it up to the local Bishops and Archbishops to allow the Traditional Latin Mass. Praying for full unity for all Catholics in unity with our Vicar of Christ. Just as the Mass is said in different languages, I feel the Mass could be said in Latin. ✝️✝️✝️
With de facto faculties to hear confessions and de facto faculties to witness marriages via the local ordinary, the other sacraments do not require liceity for validity.
In light of this, at this point, Society priests largely enjoy de facto (if not de jure) ministerial legitimacy in the Church.
If you explain the difference and explain the basic concept of supplied jurisdiction, most regular Catholics should understand.
Take note, Michael Voris.
Hmmmm I understand your feelings, but “we” need to stay the course and not get involved with that individual. He will not prevail without any assistance from “us” Faithful. ✝️
Why?
I have an SSPX parish... 50 miles away ☹
Train hard. Fight easy. True man. True Priests
I remember when Pablo reprend Peter ! So is something like that in our church ! Monsignor Lefebvre was a missioner , good him make a lot work in Africa ! Him did good job really based in he’s believes ✝️CORRECT👍 ✝️God bless all priest from SSPX ❤️😘🙏✝️🙏✝️ I’m believer in Jesus ✝️your follow Jesus not a any men 🙏✝️🙏✝️
The conciliar rite is like a cuckoo bird pushing out the eggs of the bird who built the nest, and takes over...
How do you find an SSPX church? I’m frustrated with the NO…
Was wondering why Michael Voris has such a beef against the SSPX. Anybody have any opinions on this?
He is apparently funded by some laypeople who are very much against the SSPX. Louie Verecchio has written about it on his blog. He knows who these people are.
How come every time I post on SSPX, my comment disappears?
Right now is the 3rd time.
They are chickens it seems. Mine did too!
How do you guys get around V1 / Pastor Aeternus on “Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, the Roman Church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other Church, and that this jurisdictional power of the Roman Pontiff is both episcopal and immediate. Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and thus is not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world.”?
Of course we are bound to obedience to the Pope. But not when he commands things against the faith. The quote is clearly not wanting to anticipate situations in which you are commanded to do something against the faith.
We do not deny that the Pope has authority to command not only in areas of faith and morals, but also in discipline and government. But again, we are not bound to obey we are commanded to do something against the faith, whether that be in an act of discipline (“say the New Mass”) or government (“shut down the SSPX”) or faith (“Believe in religious liberty”).
This reminds me of Feeneyites quoting this from Pope Eugene IV:
"The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and teaches, that none of those who are not within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but Jews, heretics and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but are to go into the eternal fire 'prepared for the devil, and his angels' (Mt. 25:41)., unless before the close of their lives they shall have entered into that Church; also that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is such that the Church's sacraments avail only those abiding in that Church, and that fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of piety which play their part in the Christian combat are in her alone productive of eternal rewards; moreover, that no one, no matter what alms he may have given, not even if he were to shed his blood for Christ's sake, can be saved unless he abide in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." (Mansi, Concilia, xxxi, 1739; Pope Eugene IV, in the bull, Cantate Domino, 1441).
The Pope does not want to speak of exceptional situations, where baptism of blood or desire are engaged. So too, in Pastor Aeternus, Vatican I is not wanting to consider exceptional situations, where the Pope is commanding something against God.
In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Fr. Paul Robinson
@@SSPX You're just mixing everything up. Faith is about faith, discipline is discipline, and government of the church is about government. How can an act of discipline or government be related to faith ? Decisions about government and discipline are not infallible, nevertheless clerics ought to obey the pope in discipline and government as well.
What you are saying basically is this: "The pope commands me to clean the stairs, but I won't obey him because cleaning the stairs is against my faith"
How is it that saying the Novus Ordo is against the faith ? It is true that there has been many abuses in the new mass especially in the western world, but this is not representative of how the new mass was intended to be, read " _Sacrosanctum Concilium_ " - the new mass was originally intended to be a vernacular TLM.
How is shutting down the SSPX against the faith ? The pope has the keys to bind and to loose, if he wants to shut down your irregular institution (which I think one pope will have to do at some point), then why would you say it goes against faith ? If the pope had the power to authorize the SSPX in the first place, he also has the power to revoke it. Give grace to God that is was made possible (Eph 5:20), because surely the society played an important role in alerting the faithful to the importance of tradition, which unwillingly helped to generate a new generation of glad trads, which now join the FSSP, ICKSP, or the Institute of the Good Shepherd, accepting the council of Vatican II, and thus making the distinction conciliar vs traditionalist completely obsolete and outdated.
If by religious liberty you mean the attitude that the state has towards the exercise of religious beliefs in a said country, then it is not an article of faith, this is more of a pastoral approach.
But if by religious liberty you mean the decision of an individual to cooperate freely with grace without incurring external obligation or penalty, then it is an article of Faith defined by Vatican II, and it has deep roots within the tradition of the Church. (go read Summa IIa IIae Q10 a8 C & a12 C)
The human person, by it's very nature created by God, has a right to free religious belief, but this right has to be exercised within limits; individuals are obliged to search honestly and to hold to the truth once they find it.
I believe the Vatican I fathers were very smart, when they distinguished faith and moral (which talk directly about salvation) apart from discipline and government, precisely because the first class is the only matter of infallibility, as they studied history of papal decrees they found out that some popes were using their apostolic authority in a very confusing way to bind all people to a sort of moral obedience regardless the matter.
@@Iesu-Christi-Servus RE: the Novus Ordo being against the Faith - it is not, as you suggest, "just" the TLM in vernacular. We would suggest going through a few episodes we did on this topic, starting here: czcams.com/video/ftzfRi5TZrY/video.html
Without going into a back and forth on each of these arguments, we can sum up our disagreement broadly in this way - practically everything, including disciplinary laws, pastoral approaches, etc. are related to Faith in some way.
Suggestion: consider making an appointment with one of our priests to discuss your concerns more specifically - we're not dismissing them, but a long back-and-forth in the comment section on CZcams is probably not the best avenue to resolve them.
God bless you and keep you!
Who is Hirpinus and Causidicus?
(41:51) How is becoming a freemasson, not still on the books for automatic excomunication? this can't be right...
It is on the books for automatic excommunication, see canon law 2335
Right, that was strange. How can the doctrine change on this?
You can find confirmation of that here: www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/catholics-and-freemasonry.html
Of course, it is still sinful to do so. There is just no longer the penalty of excommunication attached to it.
-Fr. Robinson
@@SSPX thank you Father. And shocking that discipline is so lax on this very serious issue.
God can see what man cannot. What really matters is what the SSPX has become. 'By their fruits you shall know them.' The SSPX has been vindicated. God knows whith whom He can work and He chose Bishop Lefebvre.
Francis intends abrogation of the Tridentine Mass, make no mistake about it. It will offcially come on paper, if not by Francis then by his Modernist successor.
I attend a Latin mass parish, SSPX. but the vernacular -- what about the eastern rites that have the liturgy in the vernacular? The latin rite used to be vernacular -- which was latin. Why must it be in Latin now? Not that I want it changed, but someone on the other side could make this argument.
The universal language of the Catholic church is Latin.
The following is From Fr. Gaudron's Book "The Catechism of the Crisis in the Church"
71) Is it necessary to celebrate Mass in Latin?
Just as it is fitting to change out of one’s work-clothes for an
important ceremony, it is likewise most fitting that the language of
sacred liturgy be different from that of everyday life. The vernacular is
not apt for the sacred action. In the West, Latin has been the liturgical
language for centuries. But in other parts of the Church, and even in
numerous non-Christian religions, there is also a sacred language.
Do non-Catholics also use a sacred language?
The establishment of a fixed liturgical language while the common
language evolves seems to be a constant of mankind. The schismatic Greeks employ ancient Greek in their liturgy; the Russians use
Slavonic. At the time of Christ, the Jews already utilized ancient
Hebrew for the liturgy, which was no longer the common language
(and neither Jesus nor the Apostles criticized this). The same thing is
found in Islam (literary Arabic, the language of prayer, is no longer
understood by the multitudes) and some Oriental religions. The
Roman pagans also had archaic formulations in their worship that
had become incomprehensible.
How can this universal custom of the use of a sacred language for divine worship be explained?
Man naturally has a sense of the sacred. He understands instinctively
that divine worship does not depend on him, that he must
respect it and transmit it as he has received it, without allowing
anything to disrupt it. The use of a fixed, sacred language in religion
is in conformity with human psychology as well as the immutable
nature of divine realities.
72) Don’t the faithful understand the Mass better when it is celebrated in their own language?
The Mass works ineffable mysteries that no man can perfectly
understand. This mysterious character finds its expression in the use of
a mysterious language that is not immediately understood by all. (It is
for this reason that some parts of the Mass are recited in a low voice.)
The vernacular language, on the contrary, gives the superficial
impression of a comprehension which in reality does not exist. People
think they understand the Mass because it is celebrated in their mother
tongue. In fact, they generally understand nothing of the essence of
the holy sacrifice.
Is the function of Latin, then, to place a barrier between the faithful and the holy mysteries?
The purpose is not to build an opaque wall that would conceal
everything, but, rather, to better appreciate the perspectives; for that,
a certain distance is necessary. In order to penetrate a little into the
mystery of the Mass, the first condition is to humbly acknowledge that
it involves a mystery, something that goes beyond us.
l If the mysterious character of Latin is so beneficial, should the faithful be dissuaded from learning it, and those who do understand it be pitied?
The use of Latin in the liturgy keeps up the sense of mystery even
for those who know this language. The mere fact that it involves a
special language, distinct from one’s maternal tongue and common
speech (a language which, of itself, is not immediately understood
by all even if in fact it is understood), is enough to create a certain
distance that fosters respect. The study of Christian Latin should be
heartily encouraged. The effort it requires helps to lift up its students
towards the mystery, whereas the liturgy in the vernacular tends to
bring it down to the human level.
Doesn’t the use of Latin risk leaving some of the faithful in ignorance of the sacred liturgy?
The Council of Trent imposed upon priests the duty to preach often
about the Mass and to explain its rites to the faithful. In addition, the
faithful have missals in which the Latin prayers are translated, so they
can have access to the beautiful prayers of the liturgy without the
advantages of Latin being lost. Experience also proves that in Latin
countries, the understanding of liturgical Latin (if not in all its details,
then at least globally) is relatively easy for anyone who is interested.
The demand it makes on their attention fosters the faithful’s genuine
participation in the liturgy: that of the mind and will; whereas the
vernacular language, to the contrary, is likely to encourage laziness.
Doesn’t the use of a sacred language in the liturgy introduce an arbitrary break between everyday life (“profane”) and the spiritual life, while the role of Christians should be, on the contrary, to consecrate everything to God (even one’s everyday language)?
In order to keep the spirit of prayer in all our activities, we must
sometimes break away from these activities to devote ourselves to
prayer. The same applies here: sometimes using a sacred language in
order to realize more deeply the transcendence of God will be an aid,
and not an impediment, to continual prayer.
73) What other reasons militate in favor of using Latin in the liturgy?
Three more reasons militate in favor of using Latin: 1) its immutability
(or, at least, its very great stability); 2) its almost bimillennial use in the liturgy; and 3) the fact that it symbolizes and fosters Church unity.
In what way is the immutability of Latin an advantage?
An immutable faith requires a proportionate linguistic instrument;
namely, a language that is as immutable as possible and which can
serve as a reference. Latin, which is no longer a modern language,
no longer (or rarely) changes. In a modern language, on the contrary,
words can rapidly undergo significant changes of meaning or tone
(they can acquire a pejorative or derisive connotation which they
formerly lacked). The usage of such a language can thus easily lead to
errors or ambiguities, while the use of Latin preserves both the dignity
and orthodoxy of the liturgy.
In what way is the nearly bimillennial use of the Latin language in the liturgy an advantage?
Used in the liturgy for nearly two thousand years, the Latin
language has been, as it were, hallowed. It is a comfort to be able to
pray with the same words that our ancestors and all the priests and
monks have prayed for centuries. We feel concretely the continuity of
the Church through time, and we unite our prayer with theirs. Time
and eternity converge.
How does Latin symbolize the unity of the Church?
Latin not only manifests the Church’s unity in time, but also in
space. Favoring union with Rome (its usage kept Poland from the
Slavic schism), it also unites all Christian nations with one another.
Before the Council, the Roman-Rite Mass was celebrated everywhere
in the same language. On five continents, the faithful would find the
Mass as celebrated in their own parish. Today, this image of unity has
been shattered. There is no longer any unity in the liturgy, neither
in language nor in rites. This is true to such an extent that someone
attending a Mass celebrated in an unfamiliar language has a hard time
even distinguishing the principle parts of the Mass.
How might one sum up the utility of Latin?
Our Church is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. The Latin
language in its way contributes to each of these characteristics.53 By its
native genius (an imperial language), its hieratic character (a “dead”
language), and, especially, the consecration it received, together with
Hebrew and Greek, on the titulum of the Cross, it perfectly serves
the holiness of the liturgy; by its universal, supranational usage (it is no
longer the language of any one people), it manifests catholicity; by its
living link with the Rome of St. Peter and with so many of the Fathers
and Doctors of the Church who were both the echo of the Apostles
and the artisans of liturgical Latin (they forged not only its prayers,
hymns, and responses, but Christian Latin itself, which is, in many
aspects, a complete renewal of classical Latin), it is the guarantee of
its apostolicity; by its official usage, lastly, which makes it the language
of reference for the magisterium, canon law, and liturgy, it contributes
efficaciously to the Church’s triple unity: unity of faith, unity of government, and unity of worship.
Source: angeluspress.org/products/catechism-crisis
@@jesusaguirre3974 No it isn't. The eastern rites of the church celebrate the liturgy in the vernacular. Trent NEVER mandates as dogma that the mass be in Latin. Even before Trent there were some masses that were in the vernacular. And the liturgy used to be in Greek before it died out in the west and was replaced by Latin. Are you telling me that the eastern rites must say the mass in Latin?
So you can be a Freemason and you ARE NOT excommunicated?!
The question is somewhat complicated. Canon 2335 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law said that the penalty of excommunication latae sententiae, reserved to the Holy See, was applied to any Catholic who joined the Freemasons. The New Code calls for the imposition of a just penalty for those who join a society which plots against the Church and an interdict for those who lead or promote such societies. The Freemasons are not mentioned explicitly. Since it is a "secret society" whose membership is not published, it would be hard to actually impose those penalties.
The New Code, at least, does not explicitly consider membership in the Freemasons to carry a latae sententiae excommunication. To go into more detail would require a separate study.
Thank you for the reply. This is a very well done podcast series.
On the surface it sounds like a free pass to the very people who are destroying our faith. Even though it’s a secret society it’s not that hard to identify people in it based on their behaviors. If it looks like a duck walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a duck! Just look at Pope Francis and Nancy Pelosi at the Vatican recently and how he should have publicly admonished her for her stance on abortion. He didn’t say a word…
I don't want to drive 60 miles one way to see a picture of Bergoglio the Heretic or the divine mercy nonsense. I'd stay in the NO for that.
Rome is right; regardless of anything, the SSPX has stood for?
Cismatics
The SSPX action towards Rome being a recognize but resist is a dogmatic textbook difinetion of Schism.
Wrong. Schism would require a parallel hierarchy. You should change your handle to HoniriusLover, because during the Arian Crisis you would've rejected the proposition of the Nicene Creed.
You are making your own Laws and doctrines and you say that you haven't separated from the True Church? You can be likened to Protestants now? I thought you're not going to divide but be united in one faith? But it seemed that you're being laid back with your negligence now of preserving the True Church ruled by your Archbishop and having that freedom out of arrogance.
Your defence of you being Catholic or Roman Catholic for that matter is the very reason why we Protestants still insist we are Catholic though not Roman Catholic, we subscribe to the Creeds and there is no the Patriarch of Rome is the Supreme Apostle of all Christians in there
Perhaps a lack of charity to Vatican 2 but not in schism.
Material schism.