Make more with thermoforming and compression moulding - Advanced 3D printing
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Sometimes 3D printing doesn't suit manufacturing difficult geometry. With that in mind, this video explores augmenting 3D printing with both thermoforming and compression moulding. Each are able to produce shapes that are highly contoured, without layer lines and without the need for support material.
In this video we explore each, including a cameo from F1 in Schools team Photonic Racing, who are looking for innovative ways to manufacture delicate and accurate components.
The thermoforming worked beautifully with PLA and a PETG mould. The compression moulding really needs a aluminium or better mould, that can go in the oven with the slug for uniform softening. Hopefully the team can mill such a mould and get the process working.
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Hi, I think a lot of people would enjoy a build series where you make a DIY reprap (or other) 3d printer with all the technologies you have explored over the years
You could use boiling water (100°c) to have your plastic at the right temperature.
interesting idea, could use cooking tools for sous vide
you mean doing a "bain marie" I wonder if you could do chocolate parts.
@@jasonder6241 dont need to - water doesnt go above boiling except PLA likes to melt at double the temp
I do this quite a bit w PLA
@@RomanoPRODUCTION Nahh, definitely sous vide. A bain marie could work, but by the point you've got it enclosed enough to not let it get wet, and the time you've got it surrounded by enough heating material (boiling water), you're basically using sous vide.
Spent 15 yrs working on packaging power electronics on airplanes, three phase 400 Hz current from 10 to 1000 amperes. High strength, insulating, and light weight resulted in us thinking a lot about composites and how to make them. One approach that I didn't hear the results was to build a mold from concrete. I came up with the idea of using investment casting wax that could be melted out to form flow channels for cooling liquid and to flow the coolant around components.
So consider 3D printing the bottom surface of the part and the step vertical wall to the split line, and 3D print the top surface of the part on a plateau that matches the other half. Concrete shrinks which make correct the shrinkage of the plastic as it cools. Cooling and heating channels can be added with wax that is water soluble or melts out. Steel molds are actually used for production compression molds. Aluminum is only used for very small volume since aluminum wears away. The thermal conductivity of steel and density is very poor. Concrete is conductivity is worse by 15 to 50 then stainless steel to steel. Aluminum is 6 to 30 time better then those steels.
I would heat the molds first to the desired temperature or even slightly higher. Use the thermal mass of the mold to melt the plastic. Cool down can be accelerated by cooling channels or sufficient time.
Maybe using a vise to clamp the mold halves would be easier. It’s fast, strong and applies uniform pressure.
With dowel pins as guide rods.
@@scottjackson2812 And/or 3D printed vice jaws to support and align.
We have a book press, that could work.
Use strong spring on the bolts, it will push the two halves together inside the oven.
Only issue is it was difficult to heat the plastic when in in the mold, in the oven. Instead i think a perfect solution would be to make the mold out of aluminum and insert heater cartridges into the molds. It would make the whole process faster and easier because it’s much more efficient that heating air to then heat the mold that then heats the plastic. Would need to design an easy release mechanism to pull the mold apart.
I have one idea regarding the aluminium mould: Could you insert heater cartridges and thermistors in it and use PID (with PID autotune) to heat it up to precisely the temperature you want? If you use an recycled 3D printer mainboard for this, you could also add motors to compress it automatically (maybe with normal threaded rods like in cheap i3 clones?) Seems to me like a good opportunity to find a new home for an Ender 3 stock mainboard.
Definitely although you'd need a pretty strong motor/pump to have the amount of compression needed for molding parts like that. You could probably get away with using clamps.
@@urielambrosio6985 they make pretty beefcakey stepper motors and just get a finer threaded rod and make those giant pipe clamps
@@urielambrosio6985 Since no speed is needed and using cheap threaded rods with normal metric threads reduces the speed and increases the strength, that might just work. But using a planetary gear to increase the strength would be a good idea, I guess.
exactly what i was thinking... other than the motors lol
Did you think of using vacuum forming as well.. most of your shapes seemed like they'd be a candidate.
Have you considered non planar printing with the cnc mould as a precontoured support?
I really thought this is what the video is about... Until i watched it of course...
Very cool techniques. I love the compression moulding idea.
Michael, you are such a good guy! Thanks for sharing all the valuable information with us!
If you have a 3D printer but no CNC, you could easily print females of your press tools with drafts and cast the males from plaster of paris and PVA mix in them. I have made plenty of moulds using 3DP for silicone rubber and plaster casting.
I've done something similar for a while now, printing flat and bending to the right shapes, using curves found in everyday objects.
@teaching tech I use this method a lot for my model development. I simply stand the entire lot, mould and slug, in boiling water. It keeps the PLA pliable enough to form to shape and the mould from distorting.
What material do you use to make your mould?
This video gave me a suitable idea for reuse failed 3d print and supports
Such a great video, would love to see more experimenting with moulds and/or home injection moulding.
I used to make orthopedic shoe inserts. We used a toaster oven like yours and sheets of plexiglass layed over the mold. When the glass was hot enough it would take the shape of the mold. We would then sand the rough edges as required. No need for a two piece mold as gravity does the work for you, unless you need both sides perfect.
Very cool upload. It really gets you thinking. Those moulds you made would be great to lay up carbon fibre. Do a UVW unwrap on the 3d model and use that to trim up your carbon for a perfect fit.
Love all your work!🇦🇺🤜🏼🤛🏼🍀😎🤓
AWESOME IDEA. KEEP ON IT AND PERFECT IT!
When I was in a technical graphics course I took in the 1980s, we set type in a mold with lateral clamps holding the type together. We put a rectangular piece of bakelite, which softens with heat like pla. Clamping a a compression plate above with springloaded clamps providing constant pressure the whole thing was put in an oven, and as it heated, the bakelite conformed perfectly to create a nice stamp. More or less the same process would work for your project; use springloaded clamps with aluminum molds.
Oh, and short registration pegs and peg holes instead of threaded bolts.
Dare I suggest some carbon fibre and epoxy in the mould?
@teaching tech a "trench" just outside the part-edge could be used for the flashing so the mold could be closed tighter. Its used in composit molding for that reason.
Instead of a metal mold, a cheap and quick way is to make a mold out of plaster of Paris, using 3D printed negatives. Its hard and withstands very high temps, so the plastic can be taken up to much higher temps to nicely flow. One feature that the mold should have is over flow holes, so the excess plastic can flow out of the mold as its being pressed.
You could try spray painting the mould with high heat paint (header paint for instance). This would solve your porous interface issue and prevent damage to the mold and allow it to be used more often.
you mean flameproof coating ?
Awesome stuff
This seems like a great option for flexible materials too because most of the time support materials are not an option. I’d loved to seems some thermal formed ninja flex!
i look forward to seeing some success from this. it is so close.
you can use silicon and epoxy to get that type of shape
maybe, the silicon will compress under load, so it may work but you'll loose precision
Really nice idea. Another idea for models with much supports. Is to “recycle“ or “preprint” the supports and reuse them. So if you want to print “a table”. You could print the legs normally and before the tabletop start printing , pause and put the support in place and continue printing. In that way you can only print the support structure once and use it for many prints. It will not work for every models. But it can reduce print speed and wasted material a lot for the ones that works. I’ve tested it once but didn’t record it. I will try to make a video with the technique when I have the time.
What model of CNC is that? It looks a little like a 3040 except the spindle. Would you buy it again or look at something else?
Amazing!!
I would assume that a metal mold would of course be better, but I think you can keep adding to your wood setup for better results. For example: I would grind the PLA and place it (your software should give you the volume) in the mold, then I would use springs on your bolts, tighten it down, place it in the oven and let it hit equilibrium. The springs will accommodate the PLA melting and forming to the mold, while keeping constant pressure on it.
The release screws are a good idea, looks like you need them for the part too.
good work.
what if you clamp the workpiece between the dies, tightened by bolts and nuts on the springs and slowly heat it all up in the oven.
That is kinda what I was thinking, tighten it down semi firm, bake for a bit, retighten and bake some more, repeat till done.
I think this would be a good time to explore and make a series on diy injection molding as it would solve a lot of your issues give good use to recycle failed prints and supports and give you a good excuse to make nice aluminium molds on your cnc. I know I would be interested in seeing something like it
Nice DIY means of doing compression molding. Here's a tip. Add some vents to both ends of one side of the mold for excess travel of heated material and let air escape.. The vent can be a groove, say no more than diameter of a toothpick. Think of it as controlled flash where it can easily be removed after the part is removed from the mold (or mould).
I studied robotics and manufacturing in college: what I suggest is that you try building an injection molding machine: it'll melt the plastic and squeeze it into any mold you can clamp onto the end of it
I've been thinking about something similar to make a tiny rc plane that will be used to model an aircraft i am designing thank you for this it will help me a bunch
If you are doing this method I would suggest using ABS instead. It should flow better. ABS was made for this sort of forming and you dont have to worry about warping. It also has some flexibility.
ok, but ABS warp quite a lot you need a hot bed minimum 80°C and no airflow around or an enclosure
RomanoProductions RomanoProductions that’s for “printing “ ABS. But for making the “SLUG” the warping is irrelevant. But you will need a higher temp. You could also use plastic pellets instead of printing the slug.
@@Javiercav oops, sorry, yes the slug in ABS, yes it is more likely to be molded but the temperature will be a bit higher than PLA
use springs and bolds for your mold and put it in hot water. tip change all of your layers in 1 diraction, becaus pla bends realy easy then.
Indeed a very good video! -What you/your students may want to have a look at, is "Vacuum Forming". There are several videos on Vacuum Forming on CZcams.
I think you could probably 3D-print an ABS sheet in various thicknesses instead of using a uniform thickness, then melt it until it sags and use vacuum forming to do the final part.
ABS is used a lot in vacuum forming. 3D-print a completely solid sheet.
Aluminum molds is a very good solution too.
Consider trying clay; the advantage of clay is that it is insulating very well, it's unfortunately also very brittle and would break easily, so a mold might not be very re-usable. The (burned) clay-mold should be treated with wax (eg. beeswax + olive oil 1:1 for a food-safe wax).
You could cut aluminum sheetmetal with the lowrider cnc, then stack the sheets to create the 3D aluminium mold. Sort of like 3D printing, but instead of adding each layer, you machine each layer then attach. You can then adhere the sheets together to create the 2 parts of the mold. I think this should work, and you can make more advanced shapes (since you can machine the top and the bottoms, you can create overhangs).
Clever!
Question: instead of an aluminum mold, have you considered a high temp resin?
I'm part way in doing something similar myself. I'm also considering using automotive repair putty (1200c max temp) as a mold for metal casting.
Great!!!
Look up vacuum forming in relation to Holsters. Vac forming will save you headaches as well as heat presses etc for heating material
Wouldn't this be a good application for the non-planar slicing that you showed before with Slic3r? At least for making the moulds?
Could you use a negative of each half of the mold to press a sheet of aluminum foil onto the surface of each half, leaving enough of the foil extending outside the mold, in order to bring the oven heat into the inside of the mold while it's clamped down inside the oven?
We use thermoplastic that melt at 60C for making rc plane parts.
Just dunk the mould and blank in hot water and then press them.
Would you be able to print mold out of silicone?
printing a silicon mold, no. Silicon is a bit like epoxy so you cannot print it. but you can print a mold in PLA and make a counter mold in silicon.
What do you think of anet et4 pro
Should I buy it
It will be my first printer
If you printed the molds with ABS, you could acetone smooth them to get rid of layer lines. Although, the dimensional accuracy might suffer.
If you were to make the mold on the CNC like you did, then make a greensand casting of that mold out of aluminium you might be able to get some decent results that way. I haven't done greensand casting myself, but it might be worth a try.
But why CNC something to then use casting? If you want a casting, using PLA would be better, since you can use basically the same techniques as with wax and it is easier than CNC. If you want the mold out of aluminium, why not CNC it directly out of a bigger block of aluminium?
greensand doesn't make great precision, you need to machine some of the parts after
@@SchwachsinnProduzent CNCing the aluminum makes more sense than what I was saying. Probably the better way to go
You should have mentioned (if I didnt miss it) that PETG is the perfect material for a mould, because it is self-releasing like Polypropylene or Silicone. I did experiments with carbon fiber and epoxy resin, and to a certain point, you re able to work without any release agent
What CNC Router did you use in this Video?
Use moldable plastic pellets. You can find it as InstaMorph or Polymorph on Amazon. You can melt it in water and it stays plastic for quite some time, meaning you could probably get it working on your current set up.
What about using hot water with the mold like they do for the thermoplastic casts (broke my thumb last year). You could use a thermometer in the water to get it to the correct temperature, insert the mold with plastic in, and then start tightening the bolts.
I used to work with MDF daily in the woodshop in high school around 2008
any plans on breaking down the new bondtech ddx system?
did you try mesmixer support for complex geometry
Maybe you could try vacuum forming with 3d printed bucks next? Ive always wantes to try this but dont have the equiptment
This is really interesting. I wonder if this concept would work with a 3D printer pen like injection molding.
Well if you were to get a huge stepper motor to drive a special compression mixing screw and replace the way the nozzle attaches or reinforce it to withstand several times its original internal psi rating yeah but 🤔 well now it doesn't seem anything like a 3d pen the reason the 3d pen wouldn't work is that the psi u would need to get the plastic to flow into every part of the mold there is several people that make tabletop injection mold systems u should check them out
Maybe you could use an adapted oven with a print head in the oven to place a slug in the aluminum mold placed in the oven vertically with a shaft going outside the oven for tightening the nut clamping system this could all be made with a arduino to automate every process that would get around the psi issue and with 2.75mm "3mm" filament print head you could build a good size slug in seconds 😉 use the same socket setup just cut holes in the oven and use 4 and just move the nut driver between them to tighten unless u want to make a way 1 drive system could tighten all 4
@@salvatoremilitello8490 I was thinking in terms of simplicity and pertaining to the process used in this video. After some thought you could simplify all of this with an aluminum mold: fill, heat, repeat.
@@LOBrien_ yeah the 3dpen could be used to deposit a tiny slug for tiny parts in a hot aluminum mold
I wish schools in the United States were this good.
build and use a vacuum former to do your wing ;)
And for your molds.. put it in the oven when calmped down until the halfes mate - take it out and let it cool than..
The issue with using an oven or toaster oven for this is that the heating elements are either on or off. For regular cooking there is enough mass to regulate a consistent internal temperature, but for thin plastic the pulsing on and off can cause the temperature to fluctuate wildly and unevenly.
Thanks, tho the printed molds don't seem a way to go (since they are also melt to easily) and also CNC one is not an option for me.
I think about printing a mold negative and then cast the actual mold with a 2 part or UV resin. Which should also be an option.
might be an option but 1/ you need a very thicc counter mold so the resin doesn't shatter under pressure. 2/ you need a coat of PTFE lubricant so the counter mold resin doesn't get stuck to the mold.
@@RomanoPRODUCTION Or a thin layer of high temperature silicone rubber.
How about using PCL (a filament sometimes used with a 3D pen but can be machine printed) instead if PLA as it has a much lower melting point. Or even Instamorph, thermoplastic that softens in hot water. I have used it in molds with great success. The only difficulty I see is attaching it to the car, it can not be glued very easily .
Wood can bear up to 200 Celsius before burning. For pla this would be hot enough and no need to have the Form in metal. Simply place the Form for about an hour in the oven, heat up the plastic as needed and when mating the two halves, use gloves. You will have minutes to compress it because the wood will store the heat some time
You might give a try using PVC foam board instead of the PLA sheet. It is quite pliable when heated up.
I imagine you could do this with less actual flow of the material in that case as most will be just pressing down on a plastic foam.
Does the part need to be plastic? Why not fibreglass & resin or resin & cotton floc/microballoons for the non flat surface.
Does it have to be from plastic, if you're going all the way, using metal molds, what's the point of using such a primitive material then? Why not composites like carbon fiber?
Because this isn't a useful application for carbon fiber?
Why didn't you preheat the wooden mold before popping the plastic part into it?
why not but what's the wood thermal expension ?
inspectapedia.com/exterior/Coefficients_of_Expansion.php (not that bad)
@@RomanoPRODUCTION What is PETG's TCoE? --> far worse ;)
Use a shop press for the compression mould... hope this helps?. We do this @ protohub or have a look at the precious plastic site for how this works. cheers!
How about instead of using CNC router give a try to non planar 3d printing?
This seems like a great application for that tech.
In case anyone reading this isn't aware, Teaching Tech made a video on non-planar 3D printing. As usual, he did a good job covering the topic.
Because it cools so fast, I would think you would benefit from using a coarser thread to apply the pressure. Might be worth while to try using a machinists bench vise, coarse thread so it tightens fast, and with a wide jaw it can evenly apply pressure.
sorry to jump on this video but i have just upgraided my ender3 with this BIQU DIRECT SKR Mini E3 32Bit Control Board with TFT35 E3 V3.0 Touch Screen and done a direct drive conversion, and now the motors are super hot and it seams like it over heating every wher
can you give me some advice or email add
Did you use teak for that hardwood mold? I don't know why I found that so funny.
Use the mill to make a two part mold and cast the part with resin.
They said in the presentation that resin was too heavy of a material for their application
no traditional thermo forming with lexan and printed parts?
i would suggest vacforming with a cnc miled suoopurt shape for uniform thickness and for non uniform parts injection molding with high temp silicon mold instead
No vacuum forming though?
The compression mold method looks familar with how I do injection molding. I create a two (or more) part mold. Usually I heat the mold but thats not necesary. I then inject it under pressure from a heated tube that has molten pla or abs plastic. The molten plastic is forced into the cavity and then I allow it to cool. the mold looks the same but instead us trying to heat a slug I just force molten plastic in.
Why didnt you consider immersing in hot water (below boiling point)?
Have you thought about using a microwave oven instead of a normal oven, not with the aluminium of course. Just a thought. I think temperature control and timing could be more precise.
can be painted the mold which is in PLA with heat paint 650 Celsius
Does the part have to be PLA? I think you would be much better off casting it. Your molds would work for that, and you would gain a.large number of options. The method shown seems a bit like forcing a square peg into a round hole.
Maybe use plaster mold and preheat in oven ?
You could use a heated bed to heat up the plastic, no?
You could use a resin instead of filament and make an injection mold.
Try vacuuforming.
it is really easy to make. make a mold with air tight tolerances...
I wonder if vacccuum annealing could be similar.
Nice way to make finger boards
How about... Having the bottom mold on the 3D printer and printing above it.
Usually the head is a hair above the printing layer. Here you would want the plastic to be almost liquid and to pour from a higher height (max height of the mold). You may even need to turn off the external fan (the one that cools the placed plastic).
Apparently RenShape tooling boards, Necuron 651 model boards, or epoxy or polyurethane tooling and machining boards are good for machining 3D shapes using a CNC router.
I wanna use those techniques to print rc plane
When you going to do some goobering/buggering of hand mold-able prototyping plastic? polymorph instamorph.. Sticks to everything it's PCL non toxic.. can be colorized with tattoo ink.. You can buy some for 3d printers in 1.75mm
In all of my years using onshape and doing hundreds of designs for people, I never realized that's what a loft does.
Yes I know this makes me the lowest iq designer but honestly I just used solid works for that. Well my life is forever changed now.
Did you ever need to use a loft in modeling without knowing it? How did you do it without a loft? It depends on what you're modeling whether or not you will use it but its pretty useful and maybe fun to use
SugarBooty I just made a crap ton of sketches and extrusions on multiple planes, and added filters and chamfers till it looked right. This feature will definitely let me make some cool geometry, but with how I was doing before hand and the amount of things I've designed, I don't think I necessarily needed it
@@AlexJoneses I still do what you did without lofts, I think modeling is about figuring out how to do what you want the easiest
SugarBooty the best way I've learn to model is by thinking like a 3d printernor whatever method of manufacturing I'm using. Just makes life easier when I actually go to make the damned thing
Why not use epoxy resin instead of plastic?
Epoxy resins are pretty heavy. Back when I was into aeromodelling we often added polystyrene microbeads as filler to reduce the overall density of resins when we needed to use them to fill gaps and cavities. You could do that in molding applications like this, too.
@@anthonyrich1592 I do something similar, i use Vaseline to grease the mold then i inject polyurethane foam, when it expands inside a closed mold it gets very hard. The vaseline will make it easy to detach from the mold then i just use liquid epoxy to harden and fill the external porous surface. It can then be painted to a very fine finish.
Why not thermoform upper and lower surfaces and then glue them?
You would get the desired shape with the added advantage of lower weight due to it being hollow...
Dear Michael, I find Nick Oliver and John very professional and I guess it is fun to mentor your former students. This episode has given sparkles in my eyes. Usually I watch video at speed 1.25 1.50 1.75 but this time I have watched at speed x1.00 because many details and technics. It is inspiring, not finished but inspiring. So today, I am not going to comment about your perfect smile at 15:57 Thank you :)
I do this all time. Use hot water (kettle)