How Electro's Newfound Strength May Backfire On It | Genshin Impact
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- čas přidán 14. 04. 2023
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With the buffs to transformative reactions in 1.6 and the inclusion of Dendro in 3.0, Electro has elevated in usefulness considerably, and while objectively it's doing much better now than before, I wanted to posit the possibility of it backfiring on the element later on.
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#Genshin #Anemo #Elements - Hry
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lmao Athena doesn't get power from Athena, the God of wisdom and military victory
Sponsor wise i have played Dislyte from launch played it probably 5 months and gave up on it. But hey sponsor money is sponsor money.
Any gacha game with PvP is not a good gacha game
Sounds like a lot of problems could be solved by overhauling Geo and giving them distinct reactions that aren't necessarily damage-based.
if only
Stay cautious. There are others out there who doesn't like their Geo Element be reworked into something more fun and interesting.
I personally hate how they pretty much abandoned construct mechanic, I always thought thats what made geo unique
At this point I probably wouldnt change geo itself, but make characters like Nilou who change things a bit. Like a geo character who makes crystalize reactions explode or something.
@@sorcierenoire8651 lol for real
they'd rather have their yellow physical dmg rather than an element that's actually fun to play
Ironically, Thoma's element and design make him the one of the only 2 effective ways to carry out burgeon reactions consistently, with the other being Bennet Burst into Kazuha burst. Thus, he is the only pyro character to get indirectly buffed in a noticeable way with the addition of Dendro and the new(?) artifact set Flower of Paradise Lost.
Couldn’t xiangling also be really good for burgeon?
@@pumpalin8661 no, she has no ICD for her burst. She'll trigger burning more often than Burgeon. She's better off in her traditional Vaporize teams
@@pumpalin8661 She has no ICD, she'd trigger burning any moment Dendro is applied to an enemy. Thoma has ICD, so the Dendro and Hydro character has enough time to do a bloom reaction, and then Thoma does the BOOM.
@@pumpalin8661 No, she applies pyro too fast and risks causing burning, which isn't great as it means you won't be able to create more dendro cores until you vape the pyro aura away. Guoba can technically trigger burgeons well, but his area coverage is too small and it doesn't prioritize hitting dendro cores so it's not really great.
@@pumpalin8661 no.
🌸😼It could be uttered that many a time does the community “prematurely right off what it does not command a full grasp of, only to have fall flat upon the face royally!
It was so the tongues that slandered and disregarded electro were too the very same that disregarded the likes of:
- Kokomi
- Bennett
- Ningguang
And a plethora of others, for the community eye cannot see beyond what is immediately apparent.😼🌸
Cyno may have flexibility issues but he truly is a very strong unit so don’t be discouraged if you like him or his play style he’s pretty underrated
As someone who has both him and keqching, If you already enjoy Keqching’s play style then stick with her since the dmg is comparable and he has much more flexible rotations. She also is much less burst reliant
His only issue is that his infusion window (and in turn, his cool down window) is far too long. If they made the window the same length as hu Tao's he would be an ok unit (still not as good as Keqing as her teams don't need energy if you own nahida)
@@MsDestroyer900 At higher investment keqing cant even compare to cyno. Cyno is very fast while in his burst dashing all over the place killing things, he does suffer in waves tho since u need to apply dendro again, but if you have enough er he gets it back with just kuki. I have him 82/243 with 140er and he melts everything and has 100% uptime even if i have to end his burst earlier to reapply dendro. At the end of the day it comes down to preference. I have keqing built too with high investment as well and i dont feel like she even comes close to being as fast and powerful as cyno is. ( Cyno is played in quickblood / Keqing aggravate )
He’s strong but his burst cost should’ve been 60. He has energy issues that no one is willing to admit. No, at 140 ER with just Kuki on the team you are not getting your burst back unless you’re in an energy rich environment to begin with (and at that point, *anyone* would get their burst back).
I say this even with having him on TF + 150 ER. Fact is, he’s glued to a Fischl or Favonius team mate- which makes it very clunky to build a team around.
@@tuxmaceo2020 Im on TF with 140% ER, no fav and he gets it 100% of the time. Even if I end up having to end the burst sooner cuz i killed everything he still gets it from all the units he just killed. Im not even debating if its consistent here, with my build I always get it back way before its over in most realistic situations. Even in the worst case scenario he'll get it as it ends, its not that tragic. He could definitely benefit from 60 energy cost but he still pulls through with high enough investment.
Vars gave a better Dislyte advertisement then Dislyte themselves.
Trying to find gameplay for it on yt was impossible
💀👌
Than* and indeed😂😂
@@theaquaticfin2041 the game arent that good, like yea it have quality design and animation team, but then, bad gacha system, bad story, boring gameplay, overloaded with buff and debuff without any actual introduction about that, most of the characters skill just feel underwhelming and the meta are pretty much just whale with whatever newer characters (typical turn base game but still) and the lack of quality community posting also make the game feel hard to play because Idk what team to pick or which characters are good with which, overall I love the game for few weeks by how good the design was, but then it feel like shit with all the features and gameplay that I expect from a turn base game, I used to play Epic 7 too and even tho E7 could be a bit too P2W of an environment, it still serve better than Dislyte
@@theaquaticfin2041 but I hope I was wrong because I dropped the game for nearly a year now and still, I still interested on the game's design
The lack of ICD on Xiangling's burst is almost as important as the snapshot. if she couldn't apply pyro on every hit of her burst it would be a massive nerf to both her DPS and utility.
Right the icd is the primary reason she remains a meta choice
I feel like Dendro didn't complete the elemental wheel, it broke it. So much so that you can say, with confidence, that Nahida is even more broken than Raiden Shogun, something I thought impossible a year ago.
If built right kills everything in the over world with one E skill, and is easier to build than raiden shogun. She’s definitely future proof for sure.
Yeah now it feels like every enemy has the hp of a slime
Literally everyone knew nahida will be more broken than the probably most overrated character in 2.X the day that 3.0 dropped
@@ziebus904 holy shit some people opinions are so trash
Yeah, but kazuha is also more broken than Raiden.
The problem with making reactions not necessarily DPS focussed is the way spiral abyss works. Since it’s all timed, a DPS favourable reaction will almost always be better (freeze still has this with the potential 55% crit rate bonus). The real solution is to change the way spiral abyss works, making it more challenging on a gameplay aspect instead of just a boring DPS check
THIS the reason why stats. Like no-offensive reactions, DEF, SPD are useless. The real kind of challenge in this game is "Do it in fews seconds". So you be forced to play with that famous Anxiety and looking only for DMG DMG.
And this is why i want new fight endgame.
@@SuperKevinho1 I've always noticed this, every stat in genshin more or less has to funnel into a characters attack in order for it to be good. Like you have defensive scaling characters, hp scaling characters etc., but at that point hp, and defense act as just a pseudo attack stat. The game needs to change to actually make it so that it would actually make sense for someone to stack a character with a lot of hp or stack a lot of defence on a character and have them still be useful
I don't think people should the judge mechanics of the game purely off spiral abyss- a majority of the game is overworld exploration, so it would be fun to have more utility reactions instead of DPS :)
@@nautica7781 I totally get your point, but abyss is rly the only challenging aspect of the game, and other than personal gratification there's no reason to build characters for overworld.
@@nautica7781 admittedly abyss is the only sort of actual challenge we have at the time(not even a good one at that since floor 12 is just enemies having a gazillion hp and attacks that one shot you or enemies that have annoying gimmics like setekh wenut spending 15 hours underground) the overworld is so incredibely simple that you can intentionally handicap yourself to oblivion and still beat it so the only form of "test of quality" is the abyss alone
But still i would kill for some helpful overworld reactions like speeding the character up or something
Dendro + Geo definitely needs a utility reaction like Entwine that stops enemies on spot. Other utility reactions should be welcomed too.
Great idea
That's just freeze
doesnt petrify do that?
So kinda like Freeze but they don't get shatter? I like that.
@@persona4331 so? more options to make enemies not move for a while. having options is a good thing.
I hope MiHoyo uses 4.0 to bring lots of changes to already existing systems like reactions and they rework Geo and give more utility to reactions
Pyro is shit cryo is meh geo is bad. Rest is good nothing will change
lol
Did you say Mihoyo and game improvement.
Give me what you are smoking right now.😂
As a V1.0 player I stopped leveling and pulling after 3 years of the same events and combat styles.
@@dinte215 they changed half of the games combat with dendro.
@@pontoancora not changed really, just added reactions to fit electro
I think there’s something missing out here.
Aggravate does care about the electro unit’s individual DMG. It’s an additive reaction that adds a Flat DMG Bonus ( based on Character Level and EM ) to your base DMG.
Thanks to it you can literally put characters like DPS Lisa in it and destroy content. So, the existence of this reaction shows that they can make Electro Characters with other gimmicks besides DMG.
Hyperbloom allowed for people to build teams faster than usual, at a lower cost than usual, with META potential. That’s what actually happened. That’s why it’s so popular.
This would have been far less the case if the artifact system wasn’t full of RNG.
Cyno is simply the victim of the “if this is better, why I would use this?” Mentality. Same for Keqing and the others.
It happened to Diluc and Venti ( although he still sees more use than the former ) and they were strong by themselves.
I again reiterate that if the artifact system wasn’t like this, there wouldn’t really be “forgotten” or “abandoned” characters.
The artifact system is so aggravating. Players naturally gravitate toward hyperbloom and burgeon since all you need is level 90 and lots of EM. Most other teams you're going to need specific artifact sets and a healthy spread of Crit, elemental damage bonuses, and whatever your main attacks scale with (usually ATK, but also DEF or HP). This is much more time consuming, and RNG can make building characters a nightmare. And don't even get me started on how many builds want to use the Emblem set. Meanwhile most people have some EM pieces lying around and can probably do 2 2pc EM sets like 2 Wanderers 2 Gilded with little investment and get 900+ EM
Not really non Meta players would always gravitate towards characters they enjoy but playing Meta is always about efficiency the RNG is an artificial barrier but players are the ones who crafted the mentality
What's considered good bad or okay artifacts are so skewered to whale stats that people prioritize crit value over the real important stat (ER) and people would always reduce the character pool to 10 characters only difference is now they can remove the grind entirely
Give players a quick and easy means of doing damage they will always exploit it. Making artifacts less RNG doesn't do anything just make content more trivial
Remove the RNG what do you use resin on Character talent? Mora Exp things that have a consistency. this game requires a a resource sink and allocating your resources is the true core aspect to the game
Bennet is a cool and a sweet character but his game play is extremely devoid of fun and is basically boom more damage this doesn't doesn't stop people from shoving him in every team why because he's a easy and cheap source of damage
If people cared about diversifying and experimenting you would see more variety but everyone pushes the same comps the next 3 years will have CC say "use Bennet OR XL"
Been farming that Wanderer artifact since it was added in live server, yeah fxck the Artifact system
@@demonking-zm3rs Reducing the RNG would help overall, I expect. It is a given that most players, at least ones who do stuff like watch youtube videos about game mechanics, want to be able to clear the content. And the easiest way to do that is to build a few meta teams. So yes, people will follow that path of least resistance. They are incentivized to do so through the rewards offered. But once you have those teams, then you feel free to do whatever. If you can clear the Abyss, then why not dabble with Aloy? Sure, it is a waste of resources to raise her, but if you have those resources to spare, then, hey, it is a game, let's have some fun. But no, it is a pain to hit that point.
And, when you do, well, then you run into another issue. You probably have a lot of decent enough artifacts laying around in your inventory. So now, for any new character, you need to invest more time farming to get artifacts from the right set with decent enough substats to be worth using. So you have to grind the same domain, over and over again, for a month+. This is not in the best interest of the game, as far as player retention goes. It should want us to be happy to have a new domain to try out, not to dread the inevitable grind it represents.
It needs to be easier to reach that initial "decent" level of artifacts. The amount of RNG involved is just stupid. Why do 5 star artifacts start with 3 or 4 substats? It should just be four. Why isn't there a pair of AR55 versions of each artifact domain, that only drops one of the sets, rather than both? Why isn't there something we can do to increase the odds of a particular slot or main stat happening?
And I think you also see the downside to this with the likes of the Wenut. It is designed to counteract the typical meta team... it isn't about setting up for a bit, then doing damage. You have to be able to do the damage now. But people haven't built those characters, because resin restrictions/artifact-farming requirements mean they are strongly encouraged to go for what has, generally, been more useful. You see this with how people react to the Wolflord as well, when suddenly, they have to use the geo that they've never bothered to build, because mono-geo focus means you're pretty much all in, or all out, so you aren't going to dabble with gearing/leveling up one (unless you have Zhongli, of course).
For a game where the characters are supposed to be the content, the game goes out of its way to discourage us from using them rather often, making it both a pain to get them to a useful state, as well as by constantly having events that don't let us use them.
@@Axterix13 The game doesn't incentive the grind the RNG is for balance because players can always out pace the enemies. All it takes is one good stat on your pieces to completely remove any and all challenge
Your perspective is both that the game should incentives the grind but also allow players the freedom to experiment but the idea that If given the resources players would invest in other characters doesn't make much sense.
Players who don't care about the Meta don't care about the grind and people who do will never share that mentality because there goal is simply getting the most intrinsic value on everything.
What is the game loop if you remove or alter the RNG. Resin stops serving a purpose this is a balance and your idea is basically to sacrifice that balance for the opportunity to trivialize combat even more because yes the Abyss Is irrelevant but it somehow the only metric people use for a unit.
Giving more value to the artifact system means giving more value to the Meta and the Teir list and the Toxicity and forcing players to grind out because now its more relevant that people 36 star the abyss
Which I can't stress is so dumb as a metric because it's literally a DPS check and holds no real value especially to the ones who will be engaging with it meaningfully(new players)
The issue is player mentality. Take any piece with all percentages (doesn't matter If it's 20% def) so no flat base numbers just all percentages on any characters see what your characters can do the way how CC have warped people into think about artifacts in whale logic and not whats feasible (normal) is sad
It's like people who get upset at the Gacha rates the logic of the rates being unfair only works if you assume tha players should pull for every character but you wouldn't assume that even highly valued units aren't universally loved and the more characters you have the harder you make resource management
Artifacts value ends with abyss and that is isolated far away from everything else and even in the abyss and a change your either getting 40 crit value sets constantly or your still having to grind just a bit less and for what
...600 primos twice a patch 8 pulls for the potential hundreds of dollars/Primgens all the ore to level up weapons. The Mora and Exp and talents and farming material and even with improved rates Artifacts
Or use what Mihoyo provided and just level up characters and stack EM better choice and experience especially for new players
TLDR The value just isn't there and it foolish to think that for the people who grind want flexibility and variety. They want power and big numbers and are just looking for justification to add something different the issue is player mentality. No amount of alterations will provide justification for the grind.
I think you have it completely backwards.
Eletro is one of the most future proof elements after the release of dendro.
It doesn't really matter the power level of a character because they can always be made a hyperbloom proc character.
Sure there will be characters that will be picked more and are stronger then others, but that statement is true for every single element in the game, eletro gives you the option to play whoever you want pretty much.
You like a character that's not in the meta? no problem, you can play them and still feel like they are doing their part in the team.
Yeah I agree with you. The only thing "hurting" the element is that the characters somewhat get forced into having off-field presence, but even the ones who don't can be viable in good teams.
Overall, the fact we are given free choice about who to put in your team as just stacking EM on them makes them viable to proc hyperbloom is making Electro extremely future proof.
I don't like playing Hu Tao, so vape teams are pretty much dead to me. I don't like playing Fischl, but I have so many options to play instead in the same teams and not lose out too much.
i agree with you 100%
i think he’s trying to say is that all electro characters in the future are going to HAVE to have constant high application to be a hyperbloom proc to find relevance. you don’t see dori or sara bring hyperbloom procs bc they focus on stuff other than application (and they’re seldom used because of it)
They don’t necessarily need to be a hyperbloom character tho, it’s an extra option for the element when the character doesn’t perform well enough otherwise, it’s an escape route for bad characters.
You don’t need to have crazy fast aplication for a hyperbloom, and you don’t necessarily need to run the hyperbloom character off field either, per example, you can run Kuki Shinobu as your driver if you want, hyperbloom core is so broken that it does enough damage even without an onfield character.
They can also have high personal damage and be an aggravate character instead, characters like Keqing, Yae, Cyno and Beidou can function really well outside of hyperbloom.
In my opinion Eletro is much more future proof then most other elements in the game, like pyro, cryo, anemo carry, geo
@@welkin7321 they could easily give chars good numbers or mechanics to compensate for them not fitting hyperbloom. Like an electro char with extra damage on overload, or with good CC. Creativity solves a lot of issues.
Vars: The problem seems to be the reactions themselves as most of them are focused on damage.
Also Vars: Crystalize is the worst reaction.
To be fair, that's because the numbers on Crystalize and shield mechanics make it suck. The shield is very small, you have to pick it up so it can be tedious and hard to do when your entire screen is full, and if you already have a shielder it becomes useless since all shields drain at the same time, so they don't stack.
I mean crystalized is a useless reaction even in the support department,the shield is very limited in its usage,it's pretty weak compared to most other shields,the crystals sometime spawn under bosses meaning you can't picik them up,they just disappear if you don't pick them up in a short frame instead of a much better variant(explosion) and admittedly most mono geo or teams that with 1 or 2 geo characters already have zhongli im them who has a superior shield anyway
@@randomperson093 That can all be solved with the right support. Something that HYV hasn't touch upon.
Just Imagine a Geo char that scales with EM, boost allies with crytalized shields and able to generate crystalize off-field. Gorou can already pull the crystalize shields so that part is solved. If HYV wanted, they can make Crystalize good. Just like how they buffed EC and Swirl before.
@@caryymytank8300 honestly we want a more universal geo rework rather than niche supports considering the ones that we have for geo are so incredibely niche they only appear in 1 or 2 teams,like dendro had some sick potential for geo based reactions(y'know earth and plant certainly make more sense than plant and electricity but moving on)the only rework geo had in 2 years and a half is the resonance buff,not helped by how rare geo characters actually are,the last released geo characters were itto and gorou nearly a year ago
Even if you consider the possibility for geo reactions there's some pretty sick ideas out there,you could go for a sand or dust based reaction with anemo(y'know if cold water is counted as its own element why not consider sub elements for already existing ones)a sort of overgrow effect with dendro,etc
Or another easy solution,make geo crystals explode when not picked up(zhongli is very common in mono geo comps so the need for a shield is most of the time fulfilled by him) dealing dmg based on the element they have absorbed,or make the shields actually stack on top of each other rather than replacing the already exsiting one
Or at the very least add characters who can change reactions in their kits(nikou does that so why not add it for other elements too),again,very niche but still better than nothing
You have such a soothing and relaxing voice. It feels less like a lecture and more of a frendly discussion, which I think makes your content so accessible.
sara was the first single-element support, but she's more useful outside of electro comps than faruzan for anemo, gorou for geo and mika for physical. she's closer to shenhe.
I don't know about that. Sara pretty much doesn't get used for her atk buff, because Benny exists. And Mika probably sees more use with people having fun with his atk speed buff for non-phys characters than as a support for Eula, where he doesn't really give her anything she actually needs.
@@Axterix13 her buff can almost get too Benett's buff and since it's a skill it has a bit more uptime
@@Pbayisthegoat and her skill unfortunately is very clunky to use,skill then charge atk feels imcredibely weird in the abyss where you can't see shit ,only with cons you get this kinda fixed which is weird considering she runs only alongside raiden ,bennet's burst is a single button and boom massive attack boost
I feel that people NEED to enjoy 3.0's dendro and electro buff while they still can. Because knowing 1.0-2.0 were Pyro/Cryo Impact, I'm certain Hoyo WILL BUFF HYDRO to make the Hydro archon and the Fontaine characters as pullable as possible.
Hydro is already super strong so that’s a little scary but also realistic.
Hydro is already a broken support element
the thing is hydro is alrdy the strongest or more like most universal element in the game (in certain scenarios even more than anemo, yes), because it just makes EVERY other element (except geo...).
Hydro is relevant in almost every strong team/reaction: Melt, Vape, Freeze, Taser, Bloom, Hyperbloom, Quickbloom etc. Hydro will always be relevant.
wdym, hydro is still the meta
bloom reactions are broken asf
@@TMithu Melt is Pyro + Cyro but yea you got everything else right
🌸😼I deign utter of the tongue “that never have I thought for a second, that electro was of subpar affair”, and that even prior to its newfound recognition, those of us that championed its worth have now been vindicated!😼🌸
Kuki and Yae were logically created to work with dendro reactions. That's why they have em in their kits lol.
I hate the notion that Yae Miko used to be bad or underperforming lmao. That´s like saying Fischl and Beidou were underperforming before Dendro.
Unlike the current 4 archons the next 3 archons are gonna face some serious competition as we already have an insane roster of Hydro/Pyro/Cryo units and it will be interesting to see what they will bring to the game to make them stand out like the current archons.
“Why would you ever use an inferior option to something?”
Because you like the way the inferior option plays and dislike using the meta one
Or, “why do you need a Ferrari to cross the street?” As a counter that question.
In the future the power level of enemies will definitely be higher and by that time I hope they can flesh out geo and physical...
There might be enemies that will force long drawn battles and I want shielders and healers to shine at that point and I'd like to see physical utilized more taking advantage of claymore attacks.
You mean the power level of abyss bosses will go higher. New overworld enemies are a complete joke. I had to literally stand motionless and step out of an attack every once in a while to just enjoy their animations, because if I as much as press an attack button they’re permastunned and dead in seconds. Did people really complain about consecrated beasts so much in surveys? I remember being decimated by my first vulture inside the pyramid, that was menacing but extremely fun to try overcoming. But now we’re back to new enemies having a power level of a regular crocodile again 🥲
Healing and shielding is already valued in the game and in some teams is a necessity.
I highly doubt that. Devs already came out and said that there won't be any endgame. If there not doing endgame, i also don't really see them making harder content in general. We might get a fighting event every few months where you can kinda test your limits but that's about it. Abyss won't get harder and Overworld will always be really easy.
Long run I think every element is going to end up like Pyro where:
1) You need to have a certain playstyle or you won't be used as much, and
2) A small subset of characters take all of the attention.
Basically you have a situation where playing a character ends up being counterintuitive and, coupled with spiral abyss, could push the player to pretty much conform more to general team comps that revolve around having each element do just 1 job and that job only. What the element is best known for now ends up becoming how the element would or should be in the eyes of players.
Examples of that would be the on-field Electro DPS situation with Cyno and Keqing. Others would be Anemo DPS (that contrasts the swirl reaction like Xiao and Wanderer), Phys Overall (that contrasts the element system like Eula), Pyro Support (that contrasts reaction triggering like Thoma), etc. Sure you can make sizable amounts of damage with those characters more so with Eula, but overall it won't matter to the general playerbase if that's the case if said playerbase already has a preconceived notion of what an element should be.
And in a single player game that somehow drivers players to the edge in getting the most damage out of characters where there is a "meta" that is there but not really followed instead recommended, it's very easy for players to tunnel vision when it comes to trying new things, hence avoiding unorthodoxed team comps. So in that situation players will be unconciously sending characters to the grave just from their kit.
Edit: Just to add as well, unless the unit that deviates from the element's supposed role really throws up a good use case like Nilou, it's very unlikely for them to find success.
I agree the situation will be more common over time, but I do think certain elements are less susceptible to it. Like if you look at Electro, we currently have Raiden, Yae, Keqing, and Cyno all being used as main DPS. We have Kuki, Raiden, and Lisa being used as triggers,as well as Razor having his furry fun. Beidou and Fischl are both still good off-field choices. And, with investment, the characters find other uses as well, like main DPS Lisa is a thing (at least, once you have the cons). She's certainly way better than Amber. The nature of electro just allows for a lot more characters to be "good enough" that people feel free to play what they want/have.
Pyro, though, pyro is screwed, due to all the mistakes Hoyoverse made in/around launch (Xingqiu's hydro application, Xiangling's lack of ICD, the strength of Benny's buff coupled with his general lack of other drawbacks to compensate, VV's debuff being too big, and Vape's too big multipliers). All of these made all the worse because they all multiply each other.
The thing is tho, it doesn't seem to be the case for Dendro and Electro. Every single character from those two elements is used whether in Quicken or Hyperbloom teams. Cyno and Keqing are good on-fielders despite being replaceable with off-fielders, which changes the way to use those teams much like Al Haitham plays in both Spread and Bloom teams. Kuki is still the best Hyperbloom user but Dori can also be an option because of the way her Burst works although it won't be as effective as Kuki obviously. Collei as bad as she is can still be used for Bloom/Quicken for frontload application and Sara which should be just as bad can be slapped on an Aggravate comp and deal big DMG if you Aggravate her Burst.
So far, the synergy between Dendro and Electro has made their characters work regardless, unlike recent and probably future Pyro characters whose performance will be hindered in some way or another.
@@Axterix13 Raiden isn't like Keqing or Cyno. Unlike the latter 2 characters that are more damage-centric, Raiden also offers energy regeneration, elemental burst dmg bonus, and off-field Electro application (just like other off-field Electro units) and that's what means she's an edge case in this situation. The other team-wide benefits (that Cyno or Keqing do not provide as much) that Raiden offers outweigh the cost of putting her on-field for 7s (and even this is short compared to the 2 Electro DPS characters we have). Yae also isn't a main DPS, she's a sub-DPS that just need more time on-field to set up.
The others you just mentioned bar Razor are predominantly sub-DPS or support characters. And there's a reason why DPS LIsa isn't something people look at since it's constellation locked and by the time you actually C6 her, you probably have someone else good enough already. So by then you're back to the original idea: The electro characters often used in a fight have a predominantly off-field role, which in the future places Electro DPS characters on the back foot if that trope gets pushed enough by having more good off-field Electro characters.
@@alexliengsky6884 What I'm saying is that in the future a specific trope or stereotype is going to play out for every element, including the ones you just mentioned. Cyno and Keqing are good now but if more off-field Electro characters (or really more characters that require way less field time overall) get released, will that still hold true? They're good now but what I'm thinking about is what might happen few versions down the line hence why I think they could go down a similar route like Pyro where units have to be restricted to a specific type just for players to turn their heads and consider pulling for them.
i have a feeling this only came up as an idea because hyperbloom is super accessible for f2p and clears content too easily for those standards. It rly feels like the genshin community thinks they are playing a rated pvp game.
Right?!? Hyperbloom was a blessing for us F2P's with garbage artefacts, allowing us to clear all the content reliably without having spend months and months on those stupid domains over-stacked with RNG layers.
Setting aside resin-buyers (who are a VERY rare case) - what exactly is the connection between being F2P and having bad artifacts? It’s impossible to buy good artifacts, so how does being f2p or not impact one’s quality of gear? I keep seeing this “f2p means I have no good artis” mentality a lot, but I just genuinely don’t see a logic here. Anyone can get picky or unlucky in domains, and it’s not like it costs primos to run them
@@jeremiahsmith916 if you're a whale, you can basically spit as much money as you wish on resin for hours or days on end until you're happy with your pieces and substats. You can't do that as a F2P as the resin and primos you get everyday are both limited ressources that are also used for other important things such as talents and pulling.
So much talking for so little essence.
Also Fishl, Beidou and Yae being good for proccing hyperbloom? What are you smoking?
If they made Dendro+Geo reaction to make the crystallize reaction give stronger shields and make the shard go to you automatically like Gorou. Just imagine how good Petra Zhongli would be, a Geo Kazuha
It would be really be great if they did more utility based reactions. Like Freeze is so good, if more reactions did something else trading off damage for utility. It just sucks that this is the direction we're heading
What i think we need to be careful about/anticipate:
- A possible overhaul/rework of Burning
- A possible Geo reaction with Dendro Cores
- Extensions, Reworks and other things for Cryo.
Burning i feel is the most likely to receive a buff, not necessarily as a direct improvement to DoT performance, but as a reaction that provides side benefits like reduced def/resistances and/or increased damage from reactions.
Geo reacting with Dendro Cores is also very plausible to me. Right now, most Geo Characters would really perform well in every situation where a dendro core was on the field, as they all have access to AoE damage, usually in a very streamlined fashion. However, this might break some existing teambuilds and they are definitely taking that into account to make sure geo doesn't act as an under-performer there.
I think Cryo will be the latest to the party due to how far Shneznaya is. But one thing for sure: they aren't going to make a disappointing character in the most anticipated archon.
1 remove burn
2 garbage
3 lol cope
Im a geo main and im really against the idea of having dendro cores interact with geo because what stat is going to get used? em would practically kill the mono aspect of geo and swap the playstyle of everyone plus messing up other utilities like nolele healing and zhongli shield, also the only geo that actually apply geo on field are nolele, itto, ningguang and i guess gorou burst and geo constructs with zhongli, practically a very cheap way of playing the geo element in the worst way posible just to get reactions, at that point i would just rework geo entirely because no one would use geo as a mono element anymore, i would say instead go for a dendro + geo reaction thats not for dmg but utility, like crowd control or something and when you hit dendro core it creates quicksand, every enemy in the aoe would be suck right into the middle allowing geo to hit every enemy way easier.
@@consigliere8940 could be a reaction that does not produce damage as a benefit or that does not scale on EM.
Am a geo main too and would have my concerns too, but after all, geo application to dendro core is an easy thing. I'd be much more concerned on how it could break existing teams than on the outcome itself which given the track record is pretty much granted to produce good results
@@yuzzo92 yeah i would like to see geo getting buffed in some way but i dont have much hope honestly, since its a mono element with a very bad reaction one cant really buff it, i think it should get a rework at this point or introduce your idea of the dendro cores or maybe enemies affected with geo resonance get a special debuff when they get hit by anemo or dendro, but hoyo likes to neglect geo because it has been a year since yunjin release (the last new character of that element) and kirara was originally geo but got changed to dendro on leaks, so i dont expect any change to geo or even anything relevant at this point, its so sad but its the truth.
@@consigliere8940 crystallize would get much better if, other than providing good protection (which is quite weak now) it provided a bonus that had a synergy with the element
Electro my favorite Element for... reasons
Literally has almost all the hot women in it
@@simpleyetcomplex top 10 genshin facts:
@@simpleyetcomplex yae miko and... who?
@@Strashky Raiden Shogun,Beidou, Kuno Sara, Lisa
@@simpleyetcomplex dont forget Dori 🙂
Hydro and Anemo are the kings of the game and chances are they will always be,since the reactions those have are the best ones,even before dendro was introduced,and when it was introduced,hydro got way better
Without a hydro,no electrocharged,freeze,vaporize,and if hydro did not existed also,no bountiful cores or hyperbloom,now,without other elements hydro would also be naked,but usually hydro is not dealing the damage
Anemo is similar,buffs everyone,and alone it doesn't do much,but it's not often times the damage dealer
Electro is experiencing a fall from grace,because it's hydro's turn to shine even brighter
I'm a total hydro characters simp,so it's enthusiastic to know electro is going down,the more we get close to Fontaine
True, Hydro is the ONLY element that can properly react with every other element because Overload is confusing to use on melee characters and Burn does too little damage.
Anemo has to be the most overated element in the game after Cryo.
It's carried by Kazuha and Sucrose.
VV doesn't even save it if not used on this 2 either.
Only Venti can have some things to say when his crowd control work but outside nothing.
Anemo is literally just, Kazuha and Sucrose impact. Even worse than Pyro who is Bennett, Xiangling and Hu tao impact.
Its to the pont that I think Faruzan is the 3rd best character of that element and you can see the gap between her and Sucrose/Kazuha.
Hydro is undisputably the best element, even without the best unit like Xingqiu and Yelan.
Childe, Ayato, Kokomi, Nilou and even Mona and Barbara in some niche can still carry that element to great height.
Imo.
Hydro>Electro>Dendro (Dendro actually depends on Electro more than Electro depends on it, Quicken and Hyperbloom with only Nilou working without electro, while electro can still use electro charge, superconduct and hyper carry formation)>Anemo>Pyro(had them equal before but Faruzan boost for everyone, Xiao, Wanderer, Heizou, Jean, Venti, Kazuha tipped the scale)>Cryo(the best character in that element is Ayaka, let that sink in and she's only comparable to Hu Tao whose below Bennett and Kazuha)>Geo>Physical.
@@dendenmushi9714 actually yeah,having a bit of think about,you are quite right,anemo is overrated ngl and everyone knows it,however the thing is that it can swirl anything else,yes VV is carrying it,but just like emblem carries maaaaany characters,for what it gives it's great,now,its the same for dendro too,without deepwood,you are not gonna do as much,and its VV for dendro characters and no one is saying deepwood carries dendro.
Anemo reacts with almost everything even with the enviroment in an easy way,you can vaporize a torch with an ayato attack,but you can pyro swirl many enemies with kazuha skill and a torch
And when it comes to characters,yes,portable goblet Kazuha is best,but i dont even use sucrose,just slap VV on anyone even wanderer and they do great
I still stand for anemo being a solid 2best element
@@dendenmushi9714 saying anemo is carried by kazuha/sucrose is the same thing as saying any element is carried by characters. characters are balanced around their element so saying it's carried by a character is just disingenuous. pyro becomes significantly weaker without xl/bennett, hydro with xq/yelan and so on.
@@smosh2690 No it makes perfect sense. No other pyro characters get to have nearly as high stats because Bennett and Xiangling exist. And even if several team comps allow one to flex an anemo slot, because if the specific utility Kazuha and Sucrose provide, there's never a reason to recommend anyone else unless you want Jean/Sayu for heals.
Honestly we don't have many electro dmg dealers, most of them are focused on hitting a lot, having full uptime, being drivers or having secondary roles (battery, defensive utility), rather than having high numbers.
Raiden is kind of the only electro unit who operates on a short window of high dmg, every other electro unit is focused on being constant (or having long rotations in Cyno's case)
It would be nice to have a unit that just drops an electro ball of destruction and leaves, like some sort of Electro Ayaka burst (rather than Eula or Hu Tao type of nuke), where is a lot of hits (with reasonable dmg) and stays on the field.
We technically have this with Lisa and Kuki, but they are not a reliable source of damage.
3:40 - as a Childe main from 1.1, that c4’d him day 1. I was def in “minority” but man’s has probably had the most reruns out of all the characters that everyone has him now. He was strong even then 😤
Edit- for the record I was playing the “Foul Legacy Childe” Team (aka “Taser” with Fischl, Beidou and Bennet) great team then and still a good team now but overshadowed by Hyperbloom version for the most part…
Great video and analysis!
Also, really enjoy the FETH ost in the background
I think that hoyo is really hitting the limmit on what they can do with reactions, Nahida is the most powerfull archon because her reactions didn't suck at time of release, Venti only cared for VV and grouping, Zhongli does nothing related to reactions, and raiden could have been usted as electro for EC but her best playstyle was purple nuke.
Okay but like why is Vars making the argument that early understandings of meta from the genshin playerbase were bad because they focused to much on singular units only to do the same thing to the taser team at ~ 10:35 ? Sucrose is not the most essential unit but rather the best unit for this configuration of characters but without this team she would not have the same value. Fischl and Beidou are not just their electro application but also their personal dmg which is very high. Also Raiden shogun has slow electro application and low gauge but the fact that each seed counts as a new enemy is what makes that not matter.
I personally think that electro's identity should be fast elemental application and that there is nothing wrong with that. If hoyo wishes to make an electro nuker all they have to do is to tweak the numbers accordingly (because electro has no multiplicative reactions), which was what they did with Raiden and what made her hypercarry team meta (for a brief time) in the first place. Increasing numbers is a lot more simple to figure out than reworking reactions, which is probably why vape and melt teams were the first ones to be theorycrafted. I think it's nice to nuke every once in the while, but reducing the game to that, robs it of its complexity and makes it so a unit is only viable if their numbers arw high enough, ignoring things such as the speed of elemental application, gauge, etc.
What you are basically saying is if they want to make a Jean, that's not gonna be received well by people who Strive for the Meta and the Ridiculous numbers. Is that an Issue? Cause If meta play if the name of the game, many character shouldn't have been released cause their sales would be horrible, But we see characters like Jean, Sara, Keqing, Thoma, etc have an albeit small but dedicated playerbase. I have always thought that Genshin is about playing who you like instead of playing for the biggest damage out there, of course people playing for the meta are not wrong for doing so, but that isn't the only option. Niches have their own benefit and can lead to ways for the company to make quite a bit of money too. Niche characters don't really contribute to powercreep and quite a few people spent a bunch of money to complete their niche C6 Faruzan and Wanderer teams, or spend money to pull on the std banner in hopes of getting Jean. True that certain characters could get a little nudge toward their element's main goal (*looks at Dehya*) cause something either didn't go as expected or here are more reactions and mechanics to be unlocked. But people playing and pulling for a character they like just for the sake of having em sounds like a very reasonable way to play and enjoy a game. This might bite me in the fute, but I feel like as of now Hoyo has been a pretty generous developer in the sense that they allow for you to have fun with any character in the game, and that you don't necessarily have to swipe the card when the next OP character gets a rerun.
P.S. not trying to attack Vars or anybody who like to maximize of character potential and get the big screenshot number and who hope for more characters to support that in the future.
I don't think line of reasoning really pins Electro down as having a problem, and I'm not really buying into the notion that Electro has necessarily walked itself into a trap. For many of these supposed design deficiencies noted in the video, they can also be see in all of the other elements as well:
- Cyno and Keqing still have respectable upfront damage and trigger additional damage with Aggravate through a reaction. They aren't doing Hu Tao levels of damage in their attack numbers, but relaly how is this fundamentally different than Hu Tao having upfront damage and triggering a multiplier through melt or vaporize? Monopyro and Monohydro are kind of a thing, but very rarely is it considered since the element is so much more powerful with a reaction. The same could be said for Monoelectro using Raiden+Sara.
- Electro being reliant on rapid and consistent application is not a trait exclusive to Electro. Hydro does as well, even more so, with all of the meta hydro characters really shining because of their absurd hydro output (Childe, XQ, Yelan, Ayato, Kokomi, heck even Barbara), but I don't really hear anyone complaining that Hydro is going to have a design implosion any time soon. Dendro is perhaps even more reliant on consistent appplication, with Collei being significantly worse than other Dendro units because her ICD is too long and burst uptime is too low. Electro is not fundamentally different than other reaction-dependent elements.
- Fischl and Beidou (and to an extent Raiden) being stupid good off-fielders and blowing everything out of the water is not a problem exclusive to Electro. Look in the other elements and we see XQ, Yelan, Nahida, Rosaria, and XL, almost a half dozen non-Electro units are "broken" because of the way that sub-DPS can double the team's damage just by virtue of design of "use and swap off". I don't really buy the idea that just because they apply fast Electro off-field is necessarily a bad thing, after all that is literally just the way the game is designed.
- Kujou Sara's design and underuse is also not really an Electro-specific problem. If we take a look at Gorou, Shenhe and Faruzan who are niche buffers for their elements, they also aren't very sought after unless it's for a really specific purpose of buffing 1 hypercarry. I don't see anyone trying to use Faruzan like Sucrose, or Gorou/Shenhe like Bennett. If a player doesn't own the respective hypercarry, then they have no reason to build the buff character. This is an overall design choice they've kind of walked down in general, which IMO does need a change but not Electro-specific. Got Raiden? Can build Kujou Sara to do a hypercarry team.
TL;DR really all of the "problems" with Electro are present in most of Genshin's current design philosophy, and at that point I'm not entirely sure it's a bad thing. If anything, with how powerful the reaction-based teams are, then perhaps Hoyoverse should rework Geo and Cryo to be more like the other elements.
Yep. This video is generally confusing in the sense of him trying to make sense of his rather....... senseless discussion.
@@digadeh I can see where he does have a point SPECIFICALLY about Aggravate. Aggravate is "restrictive" because it does not actually multiply damage, so big nukes are basically not possible with Electro unless they design the unit to have an 800% damage multiplier like Raiden Shogun does, and even then there's no reaction to boost that. But let's be real, nobody actually cares about nuke damage in real Genshin gameplay due to how inconsistent it is (cough Eula resets cough) unless it's for a thumbnail, and frankly Melt and Vape have the opposite problem of needing high multipliers otherwise the unit is irrelevant for damage (COUGH Dehya COUGH).
👎
I think it would be awesome to have more utility based reactions than more damage based. In theory at least
I fear is that future characters will get half an essay of text explaining their reaction limitations so they aren't broken and easier to balance.
basically going the Nilou-route of "this skill only works if you have these elements"
I always liked electro, i C6ed Yae Miko back in 2.5 when everyone thought she was bad.
Now thanks to Dendro she is broken! 😼
She's still bad, it's just electro that is good with dendro but she still sucks.
@@Ken.Kaneki.1 lol shes amazing.
@@Ken.Kaneki.1She's doing 80k per hit of the totems.
The hyperblooms do 50k and im hitting the core with her normal attacks.
I pulled miko back then cause I really liked her and she was good but now she's nutty and usable in variuos comps
Aggravate hyperbloom quick bloom even electro charged to a extent
Yae miko carried my first half in abyss when she first released. Yae, raiden, benny + kazuha is a really good team
Disagreed a lot on stuff you said like Xiangling snapshot, Fischl also does that.
And Xiangling application is generally worthless outside vape and melt (and even then for melt she's just a cope option).
You talk about output but just like Fischl, Xiangling strength mostly comes from being Pyro.
Any other element and batterying her would have been a nightmare like Beidou, she's saved by Bennett whose Pyro.
That aside I do agree with that electro is having the issue of too much character doing the same thing and just going for the better ones anyway but that's like all element. Ganyu got replaced by Ayaka simply because Ayaya was more efficient.
Like you said and wortheartly agree, reaction in this game are all about damage and nothing else. The closest to give anything new is freeze with crowd control, anything else is damage.
People talk about Geo being yellow physical and anemo green physical but I wondered what was the difference between this and vape anyway? Isn't vape just doing more damage too, with your amped Pyro unit? The only diffrence is that you see Blue and Red color but essentially their doing the same thing.
Even transormative like Hyperbloom are like this, it just doing damage in a more fancy way.
It's unfortunate that Genshin dev stopped the development of their combat system at such a surface level before launching it. It is what it is.
ganyu is not completely irrelevant. people have started using her as burst support
I don't really understand the thesis here and why it's an issue. Yes, of course there's going to be preeminent characters in each element. How is that unique to electro (or pyro)? The fact remains that there are only so many playstyles, and only so many characters one can actively use, and inherently that means that without getting exotic, there is an upper-bound on how many characters one needs. Either a new character is less viable, as viable, or more viable than the existing meta. "Less" and "more" furthers the problem -- if it is one -- referenced in the video, and "as viable" is extremely hard to pull off and is frequently unsatisfying, such as Keqing vs Cyno.
kinda like aa buffet sort of thing. you'd go with electro if you like that sort of thing and pyro if you wanna see the big pp numbers.
Electro is now the superior element imo because they have varieties in which they can deal damage ane each character can do different things without one or the other being the best at everything. Keqing/Cyno for aggravate main dps, Beidou for aoe subdps, Fischl for battery/ST subdps, Lisa for def debuff, Shogun for energy regen, Kuki for hyperbloom etc. Meanwhile pyro only has one role in which Xiangling is literally the best at everything hence lacking variety and thus degrading its strength. Lets face it pyro hasnt had any true meta character since 1.0. Not even Hutao managed to overthrow Xiangling.
Edit: Vars covered it himself. As long as hoyo is still scared to overthrow Xiangling expect nothing from pyro element. Electro is the new main dps now.
Cyno ain't that great in aggravate and when you have the investment to make him good, he's just good and doesn't compete with other team with his investment level, his damage is also too spread out and he suck in multi wave even in aggravate. Keqing is much stronger but without Nahida, her aggravate team are on the same level as Melt Diluc. Many people don't play him so they don't know how strong he still is. Still she is easier to use but Diluc offer higher potential if you're willing to use Dragon strike.
Beidou? Yae is superior in actually practical situation.
You should add DPS and enabler for Raiden but the fact you only talk about battery makes me wonder if you actually know how what you're talking about.
Xiangling is wrong, Hu Tao is superior to her as vape unit since Yelan release with Xiangling only matching if you have Childe. Outside a Childe team Xiangling always lose to Hu Tao in any speedrun abyss (other than whale Yelan but she's replaceable with Klee, Amber, Bennett, Xinyan, Yelan only want off field Pyro).
Thoma is better in Burgeon.
Diluc is the superior forward melt carry.
She's the only Pyro melt enabler but she's not that good at it either to the point Nahida can contest and at higher investment, Shenhe/Nahida-Bennett-Kazuha is nuch better melt core.
Klee is strong but yeah she does currently need Xiangling for her best team while Xiangling doesn't necessarily need her if Childe exist.
Electro is indeed currently better but the way you phrased it to make electro look good can apply to Pyro and other element. At the end of the day it's not about what an unit can uniquely do it's about if what that unit do makes her meta relevant.
And Unit like Beidou and Lisa unfortunately do not pass that check.
i think they should have made a reaction for all the elements, so even anemo and geo, even if its not many, would have something they can do and a reason to put that team together
Before Dendro released, I speculated that Dendro + Hydro could work similarly to Freeze but not exactly the same. Freeze requires all of your target enemies to be afflicted with both elements, but Dendro + Hydro could do a Vine or Entangle reaction where you hit one enemy with the elements and it grows entangling vines in an AoE around that enemy, holding all enemies in that AoE in place. If they wanted to take it further, they could've also had the vines do something like take HP from a limited number of enemies and use that HP to heal your character up to a certain amount or something.
Cryo + Dendro could have been a Wilt or Wither reaction, acting as a debuff. Cold often kills or temporarily withers plants and causes trees to drop their leaves. Dead or withered plants and plant materials lose their moisture, becoming fragile and easily crumbled. Thus, Wither could have decreased defense. Or if you wanted it to decrease Pyro resistance, that would have logically made sense too, as dead and withered plants and plant material is much more flammable.
Quicken could've stayed the same or could've had some adjustments, in my opinion.
Geo could've had Vines or Entangled
rip Geo & Physical 2020-2022
🌸😹I could only extend the gander betwixt shock and awe and the audacity of the Abyss that thought itself a match one one such as she who wielded Pyro causally😹🌸
ayee Fire emblem 3H music! had a blast playing blue lions
7:00 "far surpassing any teams that came before for their sheer power" is a vast overstatement. same damage ceiling, higher floor
VARS POSTED! WHOOOO! Aslo could you do a video about the lore and/or Story?
I would like to Mihoyo do something with the other polarity of Electro which we know exists because of Codex entries for monsters like Mutant Electro Slime & Electro Hilichurl Grenadier. So maybe they could have a reaction that results from combining the two different polarities of Electro like how Batteries that power ALL electronics in real require both positive & negative charges to function.
Thanks for the video! Would absolutely love to hear your thoughts on possible utility reactions :]
I think this is just inaccurate. Electro off fielders are more relevant than electro on fielders very little due to electro as an element. That's just genshin as a whole. Off fielders are just better in most situations due the core of 3 off fielders vs 1 on fielder. Working off field just makes you more relevant. In literally any element, not just electro. Even in pyro, whos gimmick is on fielders, the big 3 you mentioned had 2 off fielders.
Sara being bad is of no attribute to electro. No matter what element she is in she would be mediocre simply because her kit is clunky and her buff isn't relevant. It's too low with too short of a duration and can only buff one unit per instance. Shes not bad cause she doesn't fit electro's mold. She's just bad cause she's bad.
And electro isnt reliant on dendro either. You said yourself that electro got some spotlight as the community grew up and learned team value and mentioned things like tazer, who are the same now as before dendro. Electro was always a fine element. It just took later knowledge and the 1.6 buff calling attention to realize that. Since electro was fine before dendro, its not reliant on dendro now that it exists. Its non- dendro teams are still fine.
Then theres you mentioning sucrose being the star of the show im the tazer team. Shes definitely good there but you forgot to mention why she was the star. Shes the star because of electro. Electro and hydro are the only swirlable elements that can double stack onto the same enemy at the same time, causing anemo to double swirl. And even then the bulk of the damage in that team is the electro units. Beidou and fischl. They're the primary units. Theres a reason you can drop sucrose and even anemo from that team and it will still decimate but you cant drop the electro or hydro. It's called a tazer team, after all. Not a double swirl team. Electro carries that team. There's also electro's value in overvape, which isn't dendro reliant. So electro definitely isnt being funneled through dendro like how pyro is funneled through hydro. It doesn't have that pyro problem.of only having a single relevant way to play it or a single relevant element to play it with.
And even with the focus on off field electro appliers, they arent limited to that either. The reason Fischl works so well in aggravate is her A4. She needs an on field electro unit for that to work. An on field dendro unit doesn't proc electro related reactions nearly as frequently because spread isnt electro related while aggravate is. So yeah. Keqing herself didnt get her personal buff as high as fischl did but fischl is still reliant on units like keqing to even make use of the buffs she got from dendro. The reason Cyno is mediocre is because the core flaw with his burst lasting too long and not having noelle swap off mechanics to rotate supports mid burst. Otherwise he would also be fine. So him having issues isnt because electro on fielders are bad, its because he has issues that have nothing to do with whether electro is viable on field.
Electro is in a place where a unit can do just about anything thats not a core flaw to the game (like being unable to swap out as an on field carry in a quickswap game or having the clunkiest least relevant buffs ever) and it will find a home where it operates pretty well in. Hell you mentioned Lisa not being very good but she's capable of doing keqings job completely in aggravate, arguably better due to range and off field app and defense shred while still keeping constant on field app to proc fischl. Seeing as how electro has reactions for literally everything except funny nukes (which arguably with the existence of eula and superconduct they even have that) i would say while yes, some new units wont be as good as current units, those new units will basically always find a home as long as they aren't simply bad units to begin with. Dori and Sara are simply bad units. Electro or not. And Cyno simply has core kit issues. Electro or not.
"Why would you ever use an inferior option to something"
Because i like the "inferior option" character more?
I don't wanna stare at Bennett's dumb design, i don't like Kazuha, i don't like Yae either
Logic may dictate it but i prefer to use characters i enjoy using over ones that might be stronger
It's baffling to me why Genshin is the game where people are so obsessed with meta
“Why would you use an inferior option” has the same vibes as “why would you spend time cooking a healthy meal if one protein shake is the same amount of calories and faster”. One option just has more soul to it. Maybe not everyone has a same level of appreciation for personal things idk
I agree, but also think a major issue with Genshin is simply the resource cost. Take Fischl out of the game, and now you have to build 2-4 units to replace her, some that have only one major use, others that have 1-2 other uses. Each need level 60+, with their own farmed artifacts, with talents invested into varying degrees. Or you could just use Fischl and build a focused group of characters who can grant flexibility. I like variety and have built most my characters (Dori and Qiqi 9/9/9). While I can usually clear 36 stars, I am definitely lacking artifacts, and new ones keep pouring out that my new characters need but don't get.
It's intentional by design, but most people won't ever get to try strange, different, or meme builds, because the resources aren't there. F2P accounts who focus on 8-10 units max, and ignore all others, are some of the strongest accounts out there due to artifact/resource funneling. Let's also not forget the need for C6 on some newer units, just to push them into grave further for most accounts. I still only have a C1 Sara despite having a BP and WM account.
you could reuse artifacts and weapons for meme builds. you only use 4-8 characters at the same time anyways
Make geo amplify other like cryo frozen being more longer if geo is applied
Geo resonance shield buff make it 40% more stronger and stackable with other elemental shields
Shatter damage if geo is applied to an enemy with geo and also dropping a shield shard
1 is dogshit
2 is beyod broken
3 is broken and stupid
These are valid points. I hope they can find a way to keep this in check.
I was not expecting to see a video sponsered by Dislyte! Congrats Vars!!!
As a Level 60 with 100% exploration in all Teyvat, I'm using other characters with less power to re-live the adrenaline of the first years...
I would like to point out that the original national team of Benny xiangling xinqui and chongyun was probably the first 'meta' team. Thats where the name came from. It's only later that the sucrose national and childe national was found which led to the meme of any character being a part of the national team. Sure raiden made national easier to play since the previous versions had tighter rotations and energy requirements but raiden national isn't the first meta team as such.
I don't remember when Morgana and ganyu melt was first used but I'd say it was around the same time as national.
yeah I remember that even during the first year of genshin, there were already a couple of popular meta comps and some niche but well-known ones.
I think I might have been ahead of the curve. I was looking for maximum synergy right from 1.0
The last part was important!
This game rewards/values dps over anything else due to limited timeframes, rendering def-stats (and some elements) useless and prompting an on-forward brain-afk playstyle.
If there were mechanics that punishes you for too much dps, e.g. you get a certain % of your dealt dmg yourself, you'd need other strategies, like having more def/HP, heals/shields, cause overload at the right moment to interrupt a K.O.-Strike from the enemy, etc.
This way, fights would become more challenging and rewarding and other units would get some more spotlight as well.
fire emlem background music 😌
i hope we see you explore everything surrounding Cyno VS Keqing, not just their differences in damage, but also in their playstyles, how fun to play in each of their ways, and how it really feels to play them, especially Cyno, since he's not owned by many players compared to Keqing.
Cyno quickbloom is so strong, performs just as good as alhaitham but isnt as comfortable to play for most people since he is burst dependant and doesnt deal well with waves at lower investment.
nice video!
I wish i hadn't missed the Yae Miko run. I was planning to guarantee her, but I happened to have more important stuff going on at the time, so I spent whatever freemogems I could gather on her banner but couldn't even get a C0 Layla, who I also wanted.
But Vars, if what you said that electro’s main defining purpose was to trigger reactions rather than expressing a character’s individual strength, are you saying that Hoyoverse went on an extra mile to make the game less stressful and time-consuming for players to grind for better artifacts? In other words, much easier and accessible than it already was?
Less stressfull my ass, do you not know how hard it is to get em pieces ???
@@argonaut4432 For gilded and deepwood, fairly easy. For main stats for other artifacts, even more common with Def
@@argonaut4432 just use 4* lol
@@ultimatedespair2368 isnt the drop rate is the same ? Do you know how low the drop rate on em goblet is ? ITS 2.5% !!! ON AN ALREADY BLOATED POOL WITH ELEMENTAL DAMAGE SHIT !!!
@@argonaut4432 Easier than trying to get high cr and cd substats on a good piece just to be completely fked by rng and have to farm new piece again over and over of course.
i don't see the problem. if all future units do the same and personal damage has not much importance, isn't that.... good? less reason to pull for the new and improved overpowered unit and just pull for character designs you want.
7:30 THAT TRANSITION MAN
MY GOODNESS you are incredible at explaining things!
Veteran advice is often not helpful for current new players - they say to build whatever you have because you can replace them over time for the later content...trouble is, new players like me (2 months) level up SO FAST just by exploring. In 5 weeks I have built up enough exp to be over ar50, which means that after finally building up those said replaceable characters and weapons to lv 70, I'm now facing content where artifacts and character synergy is vital - so I either continue with non-endgame characters that are only really decent at full investment with awesome artifacts& constellations, or I start from scratch with better characters...but which characters are worth investing is also not straightforward because of conflicting online info and new players don't know that a lot of online guides are outdated, or WHY they are outdated. This video makes SO MUCH SENSE of that.
I think the idea that "you can play anyone cuz this game is easy" is based on ppl who already have decently built characters and have played long enough to get the mechanics. I haven't tried to rush, but new players kind of need to start with endgame in mind now, just because something a simple as opening up all the waypoints and opening chests along the way can shoot your ar level WAY FASTER than intended lol.
Being locked into a playstyle takes the fun out of all these character choices. I don't like that physical DPS based teams have been overshadowed by quickswap elemental rotations - I was super excited at first cuz I thought you just pick your fav character from each element to do elemental reactions AND hack n slash a bit, only to find out I need to build characters I might not like and quick-swap everyone vs. having more on field time. So I either pick a DPS I like and invest into potentially 3 characters I don't like to make them work, or the character I really like becomes an off field one I never get to enjoy with a DPS i might not like and have to look at a majority of the time lol.
So my goal now is to build 2 op teams like hyperbloom for harder content, and then get the characters I actually like for a random, fun overworld team.
Sorry that was a novel, just wanted to interject a new player's perspective - the benefit of being a new player however, is that we have a better chance at saving resources based on good veteran insight like this. Part of me also wonders if a bunch of stuff is about to get nerfed with 4.0 - but I guess that's how these games work, to get you interested in new characters. I still love Genshin and I'm having fun overeall. :)
Well everything apart from 9 star floor 12 is actually easy (even 6 staring floor 12) with any team that has even the tiniest bit of synergy. Also remember that there is no panic to 9 star floor 12 since the amount you lose is nothing even to a f2p. Like you said that the characters you built are only decent at full investment but that is enough for all but 9 star of floor 12 so that is nothing to worry about. basicly don't ignore the characters you like for 50 primos.
@@minecraftliker3 Good point and perspective, i guess id rather buy a welkin pass for any lost primos then wish for char. i dont like. my problem is most likely a skill issue on my part lol. plus im using a controller on mobile and it can delay atk/dodge
I do struggle with world bosses but that's most likely because I went from ar35 to 45 in 5 mins after doing ascension and went from 2-shot killing mobs to being killed every mob hahaha (I temp. lowered world level) so now I'm trying to stock up on WB material & get artifacts and hopefully I'll see a great difference before I ascend again to 55 (cuz I have a ton of exp and don't want that drastic jump again).
@@trashbuilds8351 Oh yeah doing ascension too fast can hurt a lot. I maxed out the levels and weapon levels of the party i was using(4 characters) before doing ascension. Being on mobile can make abyss harder depending on the device you have so i do get that.
@@minecraftliker3 smart, i still have no clue what team i want to main based on what i have so i should narrow that down asap!
4:43 I'm sorry, but what? People have been using Morgana, National (the classic variation with Chongyun), and Taser (although they called it firework back then and often uses Childe as the driver) as early as version 1.4... Not to mention vape Diluc. Morgana was really popular, and so was Classic National. It's pretty damn widespread among people who plays the abyss.
I do think hoyoverse should revisit the properties of each element to better match the archons. I do like that each element has their own DPS, Sub DPS and support characters but what the elements purpose or function could really highlight what players want more for their teams. P.S I enjoy videos Vars, your videos are always insightful and never disappoint.😊
Dendro did wonders to Keqing.
I hated her for being the worst 5 star.
Now, I like playing with her a lot.
I'm the same, I'd argue she was worse than Qiqi pre-Dendro. I remember making her 79% CR / 250% CD and saw her do 900 damage with her burst slashes, an absolute joke... Raiden's lv1 burst could hit harder than that lmaooooo
@@Kaiji... that's weired cuz i have same crit ratio and she dose atleast 200k total dmg burst without any dendro and she's c0 maybe you build her worng or maybe non crit burst . But there's no way Keqing will do 900 with this crit ratio 😂
@@ammucreation2001 She did. Lv69 & Lv6 talents though. No way your Keqing does 200k lol. Her Q at lv10 has the same scaling as Raiden lv1 Q, this is a fact, look it up.
@@Kaiji... i mean it's with her full team and if you talking about solo then she will do 18k 5k 8 slashes and 22-25k last slash with this level of investment.
@@ammucreation2001 And I'm saying mine did 900 damage slashes at lv69, lv6 talents, lv90 Harbinger of Dawn, 2x Glad + 2x Shima, whilst alone with no buffs.
I'll build her for Aggravate when I get around to it. Keqing + Fischl/Kuki + Sucrose + Nahida/Yaoyao is a team I like to use.
The un-understanding of the game in this video makes me want to cry, but I am trying my best to see things from your side, because, every once in a while, you do make a valid point.
I understand the points made in the video, being that Electro units' general requirement of being "good" is consistent application, which makes future units who don't satisfy this condition not as favorable as already established ones, and that Pyro has already suffered from this syndrome, with ultimately no unit that can absolutely triumph over the Holy Three of the element. In my opinion however, the root cause of all this comes down to Mihoyo's decisions, whether it be that they really just want to reverse creep newer units for whatever reason (and they are 100% concious about this), or that they want to introduce new meta-defining mechanics in place of existing ones (and perhaps only to give them the same faith as Pyro and Electro, lol).
I just got my first Keqing yesterday. C2 mona, C1 Qiqi, and C3 Jean and Tighnari. Still no diluc and Deyha 😂
Bruh that beidou in the begggining💀
Cyno has the advantage over keqing of having a talent that give Him buffs using his em and his burst buffing his em making him a good choice for a hybrid team of aggravate and hyperbloom and with nahida he become even better . He can deal 20 k with normal attack and +25k for each hyperbloom
keqing has shorter rotations and lower burst cost. she's also not dependent on her burst for her to function. unlike cyno
Hold on.. There isn't an Ice catalyst user yet?
Will you do an analysis on Childe and how his gamestyle is misunderstood
As someone who hasn't played much since ver 1 it's crazy to see how both the game and the player have changed.
As a theory crafter since the start, I remember getting into a lot of debates always championing for what i thought were undervalued playstyles.
Kinda embarrassing but i would get rather heated because people couldn't see the value in things i saw potential in. Was big on elemental reactions, bennet, and zhongli especially 😅
2:40 yeah let's ignore Layla for a hot minute and assume there's only 12 cryo characters
And Mika apparently
Yes. Electro is indeer suffering from success. The success miyoyo did with the electro mommies
Cyno is already an example of the fate of pyro happening to electro. Cyno is a decent and very usable unit, but there are already superior options that cover the aspects of combat that Cyno aims to excel at. Unless there was a unit that did the same thing that Raiden or Fischl does, just with bigger numbers or a larger aoe, it is unlikely for an electro unit to release anytime soon and be valuable. Niche cases like Yae Miko may rise again (what's better than 1 Fischl? 1.5 Fischl's) but I honestly don't see that being the case.
Kinda wish superconduct worked like aggravate for physical DMG
this is definitely probably with vertical scaling. As you said now everyone looks at who can do the thing better. I think when they started the game they didn't know it would be an issue, and now they have to come up with an idea to implement horizontal scaling.
edit: this is why anemo characters fly, and we got electro healer. cause hoyoverse needs horizontal scaling
When can we see the episode of “Why No One Plays: Ningguang”?
i mean couldn't new electro units buff or change reaction like nilou?
Your history of pre 1.6 isnt correct.
Those physical builds were only "meta" when the game first started and no one knew what they were doing. This is when people thought Bennett and Xingqiu were trash characters. Sucrose and Transformative reactions didnt get re-evaluated in 1.6 thanks to Kazuha and their lack of use wasnt because team building was in its infancy (look at Morgana!); it was because transformative reactions/EM -centric stuff was legitimately bad in 1.0-1.5. What happened is in 1.6 transformative reactions were giga buffed. They doubled EM's effect on them and increased level scaling as well, doubling the damage of transformative reactions overnight. That brought them from completely not viable, to usable.
Ive personally never heard anyone say that electro was a great element, everyone I talk to just mentions how Dendro is propping it up because the dendro reactions were poorly designed and we keep getting dendro specific abyss dungeons . Dendro reactions turned electro into a support element basically and the dendro reactions skew so much to EM that it broke things making "support" elements all that matters (and doubly so with Nahida's insane 250EM pass). Before Dendro, Electro was a seen as a sub DPS element. The Raiden, Kokomi, Nahida hyperbloom teams where everyone just taps E w/ refreshes still clears many abyss floors in acceptable time are all you really need to see to understand why dendro's damage scaling might not be the most well thought out.
Im going to guess we are going to get another pass at reactions before or at the start of 4.0 (and hopefully fix physical).
I don't think electro bad tho I do think it's some of the best in the game because of conditions sometime people must understand electro is strong because of her surrounding for example
-raining
-near watery area
-has a combo with dendro,pyro,cryo and hydro
It almost like a best damage dealer based on surrounding like inside jungle
Yeah we only have 3 utility reactions (well 2 tbf)
Frozen is great
Crystalize ..... needs to be redone completely
Swirl is great
I pray that every region's release will buff other elemental reactions.
Being able to run a 33K HP C5 (will C6 soon hopefully) 400EM Kuki with a 600EM Nahida is noice. Add in a Childe, Nilou or Xingqui and it becomes even more exquisite. Still though, would like new reactions to my favorite element, Geo.
"Electro will NEVER be fixed!"
"Electro has been fixed and here's why it's a bad thing!"
I get that negativity gets more clicks but it sure is tiring sometimes
before nahida i had problems dealing with raiden but with hyper bloom i can 1 phase her
Dyslite's animation looks CRAZY
Opinions on razor post dendro?
Razor (or literally any Polearm/Claymore/Sword user tbh... I even did this in Abyss with full EM Noelle) + C6 Bennett + Nahida + Xingqiu = Godly Burgeon Team
Razor is special here as his NA's trigger both Burgeon AND Hyperbloom, the dudes insane.
we will never see an off-field electro character ever again
Vars, I dont know why, but for some reason you always picture the community's early perception of transformative reactions was "wrong".
That's what you've said when talking about Kokomi, Kazuha and in this video too.
How were they wrong?
I mean, sure, after 1.6 MS buffs and Kazuha's release the balance was brought to Transformative reactions and community needed time to adjust to those, true, but before 1.6 Electro-charged team was somewhat viable but it wasnt nearly as brain-dead easy Vape/Melt and pretty much required c6 Sucrose to be able to do enough damage for 36* clear of abyss (for most players, ofc, some people did 36* with starting characters), while other transformative reactions are as bad in dealing damage as before (Overload, Superconduct, Swirl).
For the transformative reactions to be EASILY identified as strong as Vape/Melt, they needed:
1. 1.6 MS buffs
2. Kazuha's release
3. Kokomi's release
4. Dendro's release.
These are similar worries than what you had for Pyro before 3.0 no? Which did come true, especially as we've seen with Dehya
The main difference going in Electro's favour is that the bar to clear is way lower than it is for Pyro. While new Pyro's characters need to have more utility than Bennett or more raw damage than Hu tao and Xiangling, Electro characters basically only need one thing: good off-field presence.
And this criteria is achievable in a lot of ways unlike it was for pyro. That's why characters like Beidou, Fischl, Yae Miko, Shinobu, etc. are all seen as viable despite doing different things. The fact they are more reliant on reactions can be an issue, but also means that most of what matters statistically is EM, meaning the choice of character in your team comes down more to preference than always having specific best in slots. This indirectly ensures a longer "life" for the element, as new character may be viable without needing to match the numbers of previous characters, as long as they bring their own thing to the table