What Happened To Pyro? Why It's No Longer The Best Element | Genshin Impact
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- čas přidán 9. 12. 2022
- The first year of Genshin Impact's history was characterized by an overabundance of Pyro characters and a heavy focus on Pyro, leading many to believe it was the strongest element in the game, a statement that was reinforced by three of the strongest characters: Bennett, Hu Tao and Xiangling carrying the majority of its success. Today we're gonna discuss the downfall of Pyro, and why it's no longer the best element in Genshin Impact.
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#GenshinImpact #Pyro #Elements - Hry
Little correction: Dihya will most likely be a 5*. Leakers only assumed she's a 4* before 3.0 because they saw some photos of her from the Samsara quest and assumed that those come from her hangout event which is 4* exclusive
also all the characters featured in the 3rd sumeru teaser will be 5 star: tighnari, alhaitham, dehya, nilou, nahida, cyno
Yeah obviously
the animated intro trailer of sumeru also showed Dehya with an unique greatsword of the 5 star
Deshret Series
and thats why u should never trust leakers...
she honestly screams 5 star
Vars II: Yoimiya is the last Pyro unit we have gotten in over a year.
Thoma: -_-
I mean, Thoma was the last but it was over a year ago too.
I have the theory he doesn't like Thoma 😶
Thoma: Disappointment? :P
Probability was referring to Pyro 5*
@@shadowhunter7u728 because he is clunky and useless
I think one of the reasons why pyro was deemed the best early on was because spiral abyss gave a 75% dmg bonus for pyro while having enemies like cryo slimes.
Ya for a VERY long time Abyss was primarily cryo enemies (which added to the Zhongli hate as Diona exists and would technically have a thicker shield than him while also healing)
I guess, with all of this information, Hoyoverse in 1.0-2.1 were powercreeping Pyro element in all sides of gameplay on purpose.
Which is weird considering it was the time for Mondstadt and Li Yue regions, homes for Anemo and Geo element, meanwhile 2.0-2.9 were mostly powering up Electro element with some of cryo & geo bonus, and 3.0-this day makes a lot of Dendro characters and dendro-related specific ones...
@@mamoru_zombie there's no 2.9 patch tho. Electro buff happened when dendro released at 3.0
Ya, the average person needed a pyro dps to even clear the early abyss cycles.
@@serezelveydawn why would she have a thicker shield than him? she has a +150% shield strenght to cryo, but zhongli has +150% s.s. to ALL elements and physical DMG as a geo shielder, also having 100% shield uptime
if Klee's ult worked like XQ/Yelan's or even Xianglings, she would've been so incredible useful she would be at the top of "must pull" characters for anyone who focuses on damage.
Nobody can be better support than the Archont of the respective element , so it's truly intriguing what they gonna do with Hydro and Pyro archs to outperform Xingqiu and Bennet
I'm pretty sure the hydro archon would be highly versatile while the pyro archon would be big dick explosion damage
@@y.k.2143 Never say never but considering Hydro and Pyro both have a pretty developed roster already I feel like Hoyo can make room for an Archon to be a DPS. Compared to Electro which was struggling as an element back then and Dendro which just got recently introduced, Hydro and Pyro have pretty much what they already need. Releasing another Hydro healer is redundant with how powerful Kokomi is, can't release Xingqiu 3.0 either. As for Pyro, honestly they can make a Bennett level support specifically tailor made for Pyro only for all I care, if it means Klee can be more competitive then I'm all in.
i mean, who would that burst support tho? gauges already make forward vapes difficult
@@y.k.2143 Kazuha is a better support than venti tho?
It's clear that Klee should be (or should have been) an off-field DPS. It would have been fun to have her in a team with Yoimiya where she goes 'pewpewpew' with her bow and Klee's burst goes 'ratatatata' and makes Yoimiya's burst go 'Kaboom!' They would be soooooo happy !
But seriously, I can imagine a pyro character that works on a cranky/bad pyro reaction (overcharge or burning) like Nilou does on bloom. Heck I can imagine a geo character that make cristallize an offensive reaction.
If Klee's burst worked off field, Klee would've been bette than it she is now.
It's been a while I got this genshin OC in mind that would use crystallize as a new way to gain buffs for different elements (kinda similar to how archaic Petra artifact set functions) and I think it is something mihoyo should and will look into in the future, at least to try to offer new geo units
they are outnumbered rn and we dont have any news on a geo character coming in the future either..
I can't stop thinking that the first paragraph was written by Klee lol
But I very much agree
@@trottinettesauvageCurrently, Ningguang can work with this type of playstyle due to her being a Geo catalyst grantng her 100% crystalized reaction. She can easily prompt reaction as long as you have someone like Xiangling or Yelan.
She's also a main DPS so Archaic Petra despite being Zhongli's dedicated set, fits her more than any other GEO units. For now, the main problem with crystalized reaction is that it doesn't do anything at all besides give you a shield that doesn't even last long and you must collect the crystal shards to gain said barely utilized shield.
In my opinion, crystal shards should work like energy particles. It will come to you when you are close enough to the shards. For the functionality, providing shield strength and themetic boost depending on the elements (Pyro= attk%,Hydro= HP% and etc) could work.
@@ei_ko She would have to be better than xiangling then
If you make a video of electro you should cover it's history and how it went from arguably the worst to now being one of the best.
I agree. Electro needs more love like "Love and Thunder". I still can't let Electro being downfall by their top 3 elements (Pyro, Hydro, Cryo)
When I started the game this year, before finding about meta, I pulled yae miko followed by raiden(50/50). Seeing yae get trashed wasn't motivating. Then nahida came along and I decided to make my account archon mandatory. Yae with nahida isn't optimal but the enemies die before finding out.
@@EB_3693 For me, it's Keqing. I keep proving her so badly. Still no one else would play as her. They always thought of she's still not powerful enough even Dendro included. So, what's cost after I already did 36★ in Spiral Abyss with Keqing? Due to they're expecting for Speedrunning. It's still not enough. She's still need more power like everyone else.
@@VrtielA6300 I agree. I always loved Keqing as a character and as a unit. She is so comfortable to play. I have been using her since I got her in her limited banner back then, but Dendro gave her a nice boost nowadays. I am glad that she gets some recognition now, but I see people that trash her even now and I do not know why. I can clear everything just fine with her now, with the Keqing Nahida combo, so where is the problem? And yeah, she looks absolutely stunning, as far as her character design goes.
an extensive history of how electro became playable
1. Raiden Shogun released
I'm a bit confused about the Dehya comment. From what I understand, she's been a 5 star from the moment leaks dug into Sumeru, likely to be a Burgeon enjoyer. I don't think it'll powercreep pyro units since it's a totally different reaction that isn't known for its power the way melt or vape is, but I think it'll be a fun new way to make a pyro team that explores EM rather than crit
since leaks dug into Sumeru? I swear I heard everyone saying she's a 4 star but maybe i'm on the weird side of the fandom. 😭
all the characters featured in the 3rd sumeru teaser will be 5 star: tighnari, alhaitham, dehya, nilou, nahida, cyno
Yes leakers assumed she was a 4star because they couldn't find data for a story quest but it was wayyy too early for that
She's originally a 4* in early info leaks but lately leakers stated that she is changed into a 5* that will have her gameplay focus on burgeon. Too early to conclude.
There was a lot of confusion around 3.0 about what rarity she would be but everyone has been confident in her being a 5 star for some time.
i feel like at the start of the game pyro was at the very front of every single team and all the other elements were kinda left behind, but now since evey element now has more characters and more playstyles to try out, all of the elements are now on an equal playing field. Not that pyro isnt as good as before, but the other elements catching up to be where pyro was from the start
Pyro emelents just fell of grace because the latest character was more than a year ago. Even if Dehya is 5 star, she is rumored to be heavily based arounnd Burgeon reaction. Which doesn't mean she can't be played melt or vaporize, but you will be shooting yourself in a foot doing so.
God, I hope they don't ruin her that way. Her character design is way too cool to shoot her in both feet by designing her around either of the dendro related pyro reactions.
@@Axterix13 Seeing how Nilou came out, it would be predictable. If they want to sell Nahida more, future characters may need a way to synergise with her and her accessible dendro application and EM buff FOR dendro reactions. Though, ultimately, if that were the case, that would be upsetting for a lot of deyha wanters.
@@Eternity116 I personally believe that they would just make her EM compatible.
Version 1: She has mediocre talent scaling, but going EM doesn't mess up with your ER requirements or giving ascension passives that doesn't feel wasted for a EM build (like giving pyro dmg bonus or atk), but she wouldn't have any weird modifiers to reactions.
You could go Melt or Vape but would be Yanfei level at best, after all, we already have like 6 or more Vape/melt units.
But, unlike Nilou you could play more than one comp, considering she would be EM not just burgeon (burning and overload).
Version 2: She has stat conversion like Yelan (but with EM), where she straight up scales her personal dmg with EM.
@@Friki_gameplays Love your take, yes
I hope Mihoyo doesn’t do that to Dehya. They’re literally neglecting one of their best elements.
Honestly I just thought Hoyo was waiting until Natlan which is after Fontaine to give us an actual broken Pyro unit to match the big 3. I think Dehya will be fun and I will love her but she will probably be focused on a burn on burgeon niche
This is what I think so too. They already have 3 major "broken" pyro units. I feel like they are waiting for Natlan/Pyro Archon to do another major drop for the element.
Absolututly right. I mean it's obvious that Sumeru is just a filler at this point. Which is sad.
@@chaosinfernoid9008 eh? What do you mean by that? As far as I can tell, the story's good, the characters are good, and the events are (mostly) good. In what way do you figure it's filler?
@@chaosinfernoid9008 they are talking about character's damage output, not story 💀
@@GabeHowardd
They talked about the regions and how Deyha will be a filler, like the rest of Sumeru.
Pyro’s simplicity and accessibility might actually be a positive. It could serve as a “tutorial” for new players who don’t have a lot of units that still allows them to deal competitive damage.
Even though a f2p hyperbloom team would be way better: dendro mc, barbara, lisa and a flex slot
Yes dendro is hard to play for new player, i have tested some new player to change traveler element to dendro and she is very confusing about dendro than anemo.
@@bitupr8458 dendro teams are hard for new players because not only do they require more elements they also force memorization of optimal rotations. with a vaporize team all you have to remember is to apply your hydro after pyro, or pyro after cryo in a melt team, or even cryo after hydro in a freeze team, making them all very accessible for new players. it’s not the roster of characters that is limiting per se but also precise rotations and understanding of elemental reactions.
@@princessatellaluma if you really think hyperbloom is harder to play than something like vape or taser or even any national variant (especially sucrose), then im sorry, but that's kind of a skill issue
@@bitupr8458 did i ever say what i personally thought was difficult? no. i was talking about players new to the game. if you cant read that, then perhaps.. that is a skill issue??
8:54 isn’t Dehya confirmed to be a 5 star character. From my understanding all characters teased in the early sumeru trailer have been five stars. Dehya is the only one missing.
To me, Raiden's C2, Hu Tao and Xiangling are the biggest flaws of Genshin impact balance. Being so good will forever make expectations very high for new dps units. I don't think anybody would tell Diluc and Yoimiya are mid if there were not Hu Tao and Xiangling. There would probably not be such controversies regarding Cyno and Wanderer dps wise.
Yeah when you think about it, Xiangling is the best Pyro character. She's free, can be a dps because of her burst, can be a support to other characters be because of her burst, can be a an er generator because of her burst because her burst duration is busted, she pairs well with ANY weapon. Xiangling being busted and bring free really powercrept Hu Tao, Diluc basically every other Pyro character except Benett. Well, because he's the best character in the game.
For gacha games is expected to have characters that are better than others, archons being the best of its element and other characters to bring some variety, mihoyo is learning how design characters as the time goes
Bennett and Xingqiu are more broken than Hutao/RaidenC2 imo, especially if you consider their cost and how early they were released. Honestly Hu Tao is really strong but half of it is having Xingqiu/Yelan... whereas you can put Xingqiu basically in any comp and he will excel.
C2 raiden isn't a flaw since at C2 most 5 star unit can clear abyss easily after that the damage doesn't really matter anyway
Well Cyno was a 'No go' to me just because I already have Raiden, not even C2 Raiden, just Raiden. I can't see what Cyno brings in game that Raiden doesn't have. He may have a bit more DPS, but he can't fill his teamates' burst while unleashing his fury.
Plus he's not a good waifu.
It's interesting you bring up how miHoYo/Hoyoverse shot themselves in the foot by having Bennett and Xiangling be release characters and how strong they are. Going by the Teyvat story video, Natlan will be the 6th region we visit, which means we'll be there in (hopefully) two years. And of course with the release of a new region comes the release of that region's Archon. So it makes me think exactly how they will design the Pyro Archon two years from now and how Pyro itself will be like during that time. So far with four Archons, it seems like their designs have mostly been leaning towards a more supportive role (CC, shielding, ER, quickly applying their element) so I wonder if they'll do the same for the element which was designed with big damage in mind.
I believe pyro archon will be an off field damage dealer.
@@evergreatest7644 xiangling pyro archon 👀
@@sugoidude7823 pyro archon has the toughest challenge like bruh she has to compete against the duo of XL-Bennet RIP
Archons until now have somewhat resembled the slimes of their respective element (Anemo creates wind currents and flies, Geo has a shield and throws rocks, Electro comes in pairs like Ei/Makoto, Dendro... idk, the flower on its head does funny stuff depending on which element it comes into contact with, I guess?)
Based on that, the Hydro Archon might do something with bubbles, maybe something like Mona's burst, Pyro would be able to switch between 2 states, something like a berserker mode maybe, and Cryo might be another shielder
@@darkdude1996ify Dendro starts as a big slime and sprouts smaller ones, similar to Rukkha/Nahida's relation
Hydro archon could prolly trap or tag enemies with bubbles that constantly deal hydro damage and heal off field
Pyro archon would prolly be a universal damage buffer (better bennett, maybe off field pyro app). Traveler may get the negative effects of being extinguished, prolly something like ramping damage with some restriction to do with getting hit or under a certain HP
Cryo archon would prolly be great for water traversal, maybe can't be frozen, and have a super high rate of off field cryo (if we don't get it by then) for reverse melt
I think every element is becoming increasingly well balanced as their niches are filling out. It's the characters themselves that can be overwhelming or underwhelming.
Funniest thing is that Dehya not a 4*, not even a 5* but a 3* character.
Dehya is a 5 star. Mihoyo would never let a 4 star have more than 10 minutes of screen time in their story, Jin
laughs in nigguang
Ningguang??
@@ajreyes1262 Ningguang was supposed to become a 5 stars, but bc the lack of 4 stars characters, they decided to make her a 4 stars character
@@clxrii it's just a rumor, it's not actually confirmed like Barbara
@@ajreyes1262 The storyline preview shows her with characters like Diluc, Ayaka and Cyno. And also for being a 4 star she has ALOT of screen time.
Lots of thoughts about this. First, I think the game is a lot more balanced now, with a much wider range of teams being viable... But that's mostly thanks to Nahida. Other Dendro teams are still good, but Nahida teams are in a league of their own. That said, Hu Tao vape still keeps up. I have built almost every meta comp out there, and if I ever struggle with content (cubes on extreme mode) then Hu Tao is still my go-to for max dps in a short window. Her single target damage is still insane. I know a lot of people will be happy when she runs again.
Im shocked when try Hu Tao charged attack in her skill..wow she defeat a big monster easily in my gameplay . I just realised that her charge atk is better to use with skill..
I don't think it was ever overrated, the other elements just got much better as more characters came out.
Thoma being forgotten in this video
Mild correction that I thought you needed to hear, Vars: Deyha is a 5 star character, NOT a 4 star.
Right! Him being meek about the chances of her being playable because she has a "unique model", but then confidently proclaiming she's a 4 🌟. He's loud and wrong and continuing to spread misinformation.
@@lamontehughes7318With his commentary on Deyha, I think he just made a simple error about her conception and how she was going to be a 4 star. This is obviously wrong, but it looks like he knows it’s wrong now because he hearted someone’s comment regarding the subject. As for him spreading misinformation with his videos,I honestly don’t think he is doing such things. I think he does a great job in making content that addresses the topic he’s discussing and even he’s stated that he doesnt mean any disrespect.
@@ianbyrd4934 yes you're absolutely correct
I think this element is going to be put back on the map during Version 5 updates… you know, when the land of the Pyro Archon Murata arrives
Problem is Pyro is an element which turns out to be better suited as off field dps but they keep making on field hypercarries instead. Which is also why Xiangling is so good because she is exactly that, an off field dps. Hu Tao managed to squeak through because she has great multipliers and scaling but others like Yanfei, Diluc, and Klee are kinda getting meh.
Or probably because we havent had any new pyro in a long time.
Completely agree... each element has its niche for what it does best.. but hoyo seems hell bent on making characters do things.. their element doesn't want to do.
or.. they dont understand the element they made at all.... like Geo... seriously we ever going to a character who does something with crystalize? Or will we get a beidou but I'm X element and only fill 1 niche team.
We know for a fact all the elements simply work better when.. they are used by Sub-Dps units. The main dps can be anything... it dont matter... all your real power is who is your supports and if they do dmg while off-field.
Good pyro dps for me : Hu Tao, Yoimiya..
I don't think it was ever truly the best element. It was always carried by the characters. The real best element was hydro and imo, despite Dendro, it still is. Hard carries most of the best reactions/comps in the game rn.
If I were to make a tier or ranking. Hydro is at the top, S. Anemo and Dendro would be second or A tier.
Then pyro and Cryo would be B/third.
Electro close behind, C without Dendro. I guess since Dendro is a thing now it can be B tier with pyro and Cryo.
And lastly, far in the distance somewhere would be they who shall not be named lol.
Electro is as good or better than Dendro, it can swirl and has better reactions
i really think, the strength of an element should be measured by, how many reactions it can enable and how strong and available they are. anemo does rather enhance instead of enabling and its value comes basically only from the 2 characters (sucrose/kazuha) and the vv set, so it should be placed lower. hydro is definitly on top of the list, because it enables freeze, bloom, vape and electro charged. dendro enables only quicken and bloom (and burning) but the only sub reaction of bloom that is actually strong, is hyperbloom and both hyperbloom and quicken need electro.
meanwhile electro enables superconduct, overload, tazer, quicken and hyperbloom, so it should be placed higher than dendro.
pyro enables vape, melt and overload ( and burning, burgeon), which amounts to 3 very strong reactions, considering how insanely underrated overload actually is but because of how shitty the icds of cryo characters currently are, its very hard, except for "reverse melt ganyu" to make a strong melt comp. so ye, pyro should be placed lower.
cryo enables, melt, freeze and superconduct. all of them are kinda meh. freeze is only strong because blizzard strayer exists, melt only has ganyu comp and superconduct only has eula.
so my list looks like this:
1. hydro (enables almost every relevant reaction)
2. electro (enable almost as many relevant reactions)
3. dendro (enables 2 really strong reaction trees, which are dependent on electro tho)
4. pyro (has the best reactions, melt and vape, which are highly icd restricted)
5. anemo (the reactions themself arent really strong but anemo has vv, kazuha and sucrose, which can be played everywhere)
6. cryo (has 3 viable and strong but extreeemely niche reactions)
7. geo (has zhongli, i guess)
actually now that i read the text again, electro should be placed above hydro. the main difference between them, is that hydro offers vape and electro offers quicken but i honestly think, that once we get alhaitham and yaoyao, quicken will be stronger than vape.
Definitely, the game has been Hydro/Anemo Impact since 1.0.
@@ladderlappen4585 Nah, hydro goes above electro. Every reaction hydro is involved in, with the exception of the shared crystalize, is strong. Vape, Freeze, bloom, supercharged, all are good. Electro, though, has a few lackluster ones, in superconduct and overload. Yes, the former is desired for physical teams, but you pretty much only care if you get on the mob, then it doesn't matter if it doesn't happen again for 10s, because the damage is crappy. It is an overly niche reaction, poorly designed, that has painted both the electro/cryo pairing and physical damage into a corner.. Nobody is looking forward to pairing cryo + electro catalyst users. And the latter doesn't do great damage for following the same ICD rules as vape/melt, and knocks back, which can cost you damage.
Also, burgeon is quite strong. It is, however, clunkier/harder to use than hyperbloom.
Also imo one of the main reasons for early pyro hype is the fact that you needed the element for later stages of the abyss to burn cryo aura, it was virtualy unbeatable without pyro
I do believe Dehya is confirmed by leaks to be playable and yo be maybe a 5 stars? (With a focus on Burgeon or Burn, I forgot)
she's not "confirmed" to be anything. We're months away from any reliable Dehya-related news.
also all the characters featured in the 3rd sumeru teaser will be 5 star: tighnari, alhaitham, dehya, nilou, nahida, cyno
She was confirmed as a 5 stars in a few leaks that also told the rarity of recently characters
Without direct powercreep they could make what is basically a Pyro Nilou. Someone who alters a given reaction in such a way that it is powerful in it's own way without relying on the usual melt and vape crit screenshots. For example someone who causes burning to be a lot stronger when they cause it. Perhaps scaling off of a stat other than Attack, which would discourage Bennet abuse again.
Possibilities are there, just gotta see if they do it.
Same way I'd like to see crystallize being viable, even if just for a trolley gimmicky fun comp
Honestly, I think burning and electro-charged should be stackable to bolster their damage. I'm guessing the only reason they don't is because of standard ICD, but when you have characters that completely invalidate ICD like Xiangling and Fischl I fail to see the need to perpetuate ICD as it currently stands.
I'm pretty sure rifthound corrosion stacks, but then again it's just an effect and not a reaction like how petrify isn't a reaction.
@@Lewbas I thought of letting burning procs stack before and it immediately reminded of how broken Slash/Gas procs were in Warframe for a time after they made it so you can stack them (actually, I think you could always do it, they just removed the cap, I don't remember exactly, it was years ago), I do like the playstyle of stacking DoT, but it needs a really delicate balance, if not capping the amount of stacks, there needs to be diminishing returns at least.
@@shiftyshitter348 I assumed there would be a cap of some sort since it's Hoyo we're talking about.
Only 5 dendro cores at a time, but only 2 can damage enemies at once. That kind of thing.
And probably make you immune to self inflicted burn damage like how Razor is immune to electro-charaged 😅
Vars: It’s been almost 2 years since we got our last Pyro character
Thoma: *baby im not even here im a hallucination*
8:50 lmao, why are you saying Dehya is a 4 star?
lol rip thoma ( 8:25) im glad he has more options tho- its good to see that genshin is taking into consideration what needs to be done if a character doesnt fit in to the current rooster and i do think the work around they do instead of straight buffing the character is healthy for the game (but there are cases like ceo of geo and i hope they may be open to a few more kit changes with others as they fall behind, such as our beloved xinyan but we'll see)
At this point the Pyro Archon will be the fusion between Xiangling and Bennett.
My prediction : Pyro Archon raised her and others atk but more high than Bennet..that is her support feature. But she is very powerfull dps by herself.
Dehya supposedly will be 5 star and revolving around Burgeon. Kinda bummer with some of the Sumeru rooster the premise indeed around reaction and get specifing ally buff or enemy debuff depend what type of reaction you deal to them, sadly we have only one but it's restrictive, Nilou(still busted with the right artifact) while Nahida is more of need specific element from your team to get specific buff unless you have her at C1 which apply all that buff at stack 1 so you just need 1 different element to get them to 2. they could do better with some of their 4 star that have rather lackluster kit and boy most latest 4 star have 80 energy point burst.
I think like many things in Genshin, power creep kinda got to Pyro, combined with the players’ increasing understanding of the mechanics.
When you think about it, Xiangling is the best Pyro character. She's free, can be a dps because of her burst, can be a support to other characters because of her burst, can be a an er generator because of her burst because her burst duration is busted, she pairs well with ANY weapon. Xiangling being busted and bring free really powercrept Hu Tao, Diluc basically every other Pyro character except Benett. Well, because he's the best character in the game.
They made both of them so op that only pyro archon can maybe outclass them. Other 5 stars doesn't really compare expect hutao but only in single target. BTW xangling is many things but er generator? Nah she's just terrible at it
@@mdraj5655 Well my xiangling generates er particles pretty well.
@@sunnypa7101 How much er you have on her?
@@sunnypa7101 lmao how? she's tied to bennet because he generates particles for her to catch, Xiangling's particle generation is so bad
@@sunnypa7101 unless you sacrifice damage over ER then maybe yes.
honestly it depends on the new dendro/dendro-related characters that come out. i suspect that YaoYao will be a burgeon centric healer (mostly because her title was like Burgeoning Flower or something), so that could make pyro a more relevant element again. also, if hoyo decides to do anything with burning. it's a fun reaction to play with in the overworld, especially in the desert because there's no grass to burn there.
To burgeon is like swelling with growth. It's a term for plants. It's just fitting for the pyro reason because it causes the seeds to grow so quickly they explode into damage.
10:49
Since the early Pyro units were so bonkers I wonder how they're going to handle the Pyro archon. I reckon an archon has to be one of the strongest/ the strongest character of their element because of their status but I think it's going to be really difficult to design a character like that for Pyro. Same goes for Hydro and Cryo.
Venti, Zhongli, Raiden and Nahida all had the advantage of being released while their elements' rosters were smaller which means they could be designed as the strongest without being powercreep-y but the Pyro, Hydro and Cryo archons will have to surpass/be on par with existing characters. Really curious to see how they're going to make the remaining archons stand out when the likes of Hu tao, Yelan and Ayaka are so fucking broken.
In My opinion the Pyro archon would be the only character that could be bennet but better, maybe not the healing but having a BIG atk bonus.
The hydro archon should have awesome hydro aplication and instead of healing she could buff max HP the same way the resonance and some of yelan Cons works maybe the first character that can do overhealing.
And finally the cryo archon would either buff crit damage as to combo with the cryo resonance or ignore def when the enemies get hit by a crit move.
@@deepindigo1937 Makes sense to me. I can honestly sense the theme for the archons with their elemental resonances, tho this may be reaching. For example, Venti for his mobility, Zhongli with his shield, Raiden for her battery, and finally Nahida for her em sharing.
@@deepindigo1937 They won't give the pyro archon a better attack buff than Bennett. Just isn't going to happen. Just look at how much worse Sara's attack buff is, and how Yun Jin's buff is narrowly focused. Instead, we'll continue to get more characters that don't scale with attack (like Yelan), or at least not as much (like Hu Tao),. And we'll get more characters like Nahida and Wanderer, that try to push us into including more elements on the team, thereby increasing the opportunity costs. And, of course, more teams that don't have room or want Bennett in the first place (Nilou teams, Bloom teams, etc). Or, in other words, they will continue lessening the value of Bennett more as time goes by. And that'll open up the design space for a pyro archon.
@@Axterix13 You are right, maybe something more universal like Shenhe/Yunjin but for a wider range of damage, that would benefit every kind of unit that wants to deal direct damage not just Atk scalling ones.
@@deepindigo1937 damage buffer like Mona. Not attack, but just buffs damage
I think that there's a huge missed opportunity in Dendro-Pyro reactions, i think that burn reaction is the best way to implement pyro physical dmg dealers. Just reduce burning damage and give physical armour shred for the duration of burn which can be prolonged with dendro and pyro attacks. I think this can be a great buff to someone like Xinyan without messing with other elemental reactions.
For now I'm just sad that burning is such a underwhelming reaction, I like idea of damage over time, but it's so low so I guess we'll never get any chance for making builds like this, so at least I think that making it physical damage based reaction makes it a bit more useful.
honestly i feel like burning is more of a support reaction than a DPS reaction. The only good burning team rn is ganyu burning melt which is to combine ganyu with nahida and bennett so ganyu can constantly melt through burning which eliminates the previous problem with ganyu melt that there isn't a lot of good off-field pyro applicator so ganyu can't constantly melt
I fully agree, Bennet is the worst mistake Mihoyo have made
However rn the only way I see it
Create a 5 star with better uptime of a burst and make a flashy cool skill
However make sure the AoE is bigger then bennets BUT the buff is like 10% lower so you get QoL but you pay for the dmg increase, kinda like Nahida but pyro
I love your pronunciation!
I remember being told to build my Bennett and invest on my Xiangling as they were the most powerful characters in the game, and while I used them in Rational for a certain time and sometimes in combat events, I haven't used them in Spiral Abyss for a good while now ever since I got Kokomi and built Kuki for Hyperbloom. Out of the so called "Holy Trinity", I've used Xingqiu the most and even then whenever I feel like needing him I choose Yelan instead for reasons I prefer not disclose (hehe).
I always wished we could use Klee's ult with other characters 😔 🤧
i wonder how they will go about making the pyro archon. so far we've had every archon do a specific role very well (zhongli shield, venti crowd control), so im curious to see if they will make the pyro archon a ridiciulously overpowered dps, or go a different route..
I have saved more than 500 wish for Pyro Archon, I really believe she will be the new strongest power dps.
@@manoharalisa5829 wow respect to you for saving up so much! 0_0 ..and good luck with your pulls too
Pyro still requires a decent reaction support, like how Anemo has Sucrose + Kazuha, Hydro has Xingqiu + Yelan, Eletro has Fischl + Shinobu. Hell even Cryo gets reaction supports in Ganyu, Diona, and Kaeya (though with them it's the frequency of Cryo app that makes then relevant), and Dendro is all about enabling, which is why Tighnari & DMC are still actually really good despite Nahida existing and overshadowing the two. Nahida's more for general Dendro support (EM sharing, Dendro app, Deepwood synergy), whereas DMC is specifically for Bloom & Tighnari is specifically Quicken.
If we had someone who could match XQ in terms of Pyro app off field, it would be the premiere unit for Burn, Overload, Burgeon, and Forward Vape synergy. So the idea is to build that unit to synergize with this playstyle. 3 of these reactions are heavily reliant on EM and position control. Burn & Burgeon cause splashback which you have to be mindful of. Overload launches enemies. Being heavily reliant upon EM, the Pyro reaction support would need to incorporate EM into their base kit to encourage their use, and be frequent enough in Pyro app to enable chain reactions. I Imagine a Pyro catalyst whose elemental burst conjures Minute Meteors on normal/charged attack hits that scatter to hit surrounding opponents, dealing a small amount of ATK damage while having a passive that increases the damage dealt by x% of EM (So say the unit has 700 EM and the passive adds 200% to the base damage of the meteors). Something like 3-5 meteors every 1.5s for the frequency.
Then have constellations that add teamwide Pyro damage, EM buffs (not EM sharing, as we have discovered a difference between the two now that Sucrose + Nahida exist), bonus reaction damage (something like 100% of base ATK to Overload's base damage as an example, or 0.6% increased damage for Burn/Burgeon/Overload per point of EM above 200), and/or energy gen (surprisingly, save for Thoma, Pyro units are really good at battery. Bennett can generate 2-3 particles every 2-4s. Guoba generates 4 particles, Amber can generate 4 per bunny, both of Klee's bombs generate 4 particles each, while her whole kit is predicated around energy refund. Yoimiya & Hu Tao generate pyro particles during their buff window, something like 1 particle every 2.5s or something, which makes them easy(er) to maintain uptime with them.
8:12 this topic aside, I realized that Diluc cutscene, that one Cryo Abyss Mage is still floating after fall.
i don't think dehya's a 4 star?
Yes us Dehya Future Mains made Hoyoverse made her a 5*.
klee’s burst really should be active off field, it fits how it’s triggered better and would make her way more widely used
there is a way to make pyro more diverse and versatile give us more characters like Nilou for Pyro meaning a pyro unit who can buff Pyro reactions like Burning and Overload and Deyha could be that unit i'm thinking about changing both burning and overload reactions into reactions like Catalyze or better yet combining Catalyze, Burning and Overload into a single reaction of course it will have the same limitations on restricting elements like having only Pyro, Electro and Dendro units on the team but it can make Burning and Oveload by giving the same effects as Catalyze
I usually run hypebloom and freeze teams, but I tried double geo double Pyro with ning, albedo, Bennett and thoma and it's actually not bad
8:52 excuse me but isn't it strong confirmed that dehya will indeed be a 5* (and she will be Burgeon based due to other characters in sumeru being OP in their new reactions (aggravate,Bloom/Hyperbloom and Burgeon)?
(P.S. Idk when he filled that vid (it has it have been before 3.2 (3.1 even))
i heard she will be around 3.5 and will be a burgeon dps, sorry if i got something wrong
it's not confirmed either way, but I'd say she's more likely to be 5* and there's 0 reason for him to say she's "definitely a 4*"
Also, I think Dehya will have to do with burning rather than burgeon personally.
@@theshard5697 or both
@@ThornsDroighorn either way both reactions will inflict selfharm difference between em one if you are too close you get dmged too the other if you stand in between um you get dmged (Since one is dendro and pyro the other is dendro hydro and then pyro on the seed)
If she's gonna be a niche character, she should be a support for burning to help it be as viable as the other dendro reactions. She should have a special mechanic like what Nilou does to bloom/rupture.
"We haven't had a new Pyro character since Yoimiya!"
Thoma: 😑
"Dehya is a 4-star, not a 5-star!!"
Lol sureeee buddy
Leak says she is 4star so there is probably where he get the info
What leaks? I sure hope these leaks aren't from TikTok lmao
@@happycorn7421 beats me, I see it on Twitter. I believe it was the one that have Wish as their profile?
Really loving the pokemon mystery dungeon music, that's my childhood right there
Vars, if they'll ever do spring cleaning and fix-ups, do you see a chance for Klee to be "buffed" as a support unit? Maybe if her burst stays on-field while she switches out?
You scared me to death when you said Deyha would be a 4* cuz that would mean I might never get her if I had the worst luck imaginable, but I think she's actually a 5* at least I still hope so 😨
She's 5 star. People assumed cutscenes from the archon quest were her hangouts, but after a small bit of info for more clarity the leakers all reaffirmed she was 5 star. We've known she was 5 star since 3.0, the only questionable thing since was her actual kit and what patch past 3.4 she was coming.
Man’s really just forgot thoma
howd he forget thoma? watch the video?
also thoma's not good. Burgeon makes him acceptable but still not good
@@ten7504 I think he just forgot to edit the early part of his script because there were quite a few moments.
Timestamps of Vars forgetting Thoma:
1:27
5:53
8:21
i thought dehya was likely to be 5 star? considering in the 3.1 promo art shes holding a claymore in the same set as cyno and nilous weapons which im assuming would be her signature 5* weapon
Candace wear that weapon too.
Can you do a long video telling us how you would balance each characters we have so far?
Every character in the Sumeru teaser trailer has been a 5 star so far, but sure, Dehya will be a 4 star 🤡
If you ever saw Beidou anywhere, on the archon quests and everything in between, wouldn't you think she is a 5-star too?
Nice design, captain of a pirate ship, opposite of Ningguan and killer of a sea leviathan
All the summery characters that were in the trailer were 5 stars, has nothing to do with beidou 🚶
Sumeru*
Oh ma gawd we love a good opinion. No tea no shade. Good job Vars, you are doing so well recently 👏👏👏
before Sumeru, teams with Pyro in it are my go-to for almost any feature in the game. nowadays I mainly use Freeze (the cheap one), Tazer, and my most used, dendro teams (hyperbloom and quicken). also isn't it that Dehya is a 5 star?
Yes she is!
I'm hoping one day there will be a physical damage support, since there are only 3 characters who are made for it.
yea.. physical has kinda been left in the dust.
when i first started i played physical fischl and bc i'm stubborn i still do(not main team anymore though) and layla has been a massive quality of life update because of the off field cryo.. not still not a direct phys buff sadly
Eula, Razor and Xinyan?
There are already multiple
@@lawfulgoodnun1646 multiple garbage that is
Only Rosaria C6 with fav is a good support for physical then bennett but he is not suitable for Eula and there is no other good phys dps
Diona etc isnt bad as a support but they are not the most optimal, very different from C6 Faruzan on Anemo
@@zeromailss you can also use Xinyan and Kuki with Rosaria for additional Phys DMG bonus and Phys Res shredding
I think a major part of Pyro's decline is just simply the meta evolving and content catering to other elements. Back then everything really was just a DPS check but now we have bosses that require certain elements or characters. I do agree that they came out swinging too hard however, while Xiangling's strength wasn't realized till a little later, Bennett was hailed as the best since launch, I think having an actual pyro specific support would do the element wonders though, Bennett is a swiss army knife with a negligible niche in supporting Pyro characters so having a character specifically catered to Pyro would be nice.
I recently got wgs, I want that back when I was a diluc main. Now I am rebuilding diluc, it was so nostalgic... Loving a pyro team! But I like the new varieties of team comps now hehe
that background music hit different
klee could have a been a prominent character to use if only her burst could still activate without her being on the field
I feel like this is a overatated opinion. While it seems like an easy fix, she was ironically built around her skill to support. Lower skill cd/skill refresh on constellations would have been better imo.
maybe not even that, just keep it active on swaps like Noelle, but that would conflict with her constellation that deals damage if you swap, they would have to change it to a second activation that cancels the burst
If Klee's burst persisted while she was off field she would still see use today.
One easy way to introduce a niche pyro support who is still worth using is copy Bennett's burst but swap the atk buff for pyro damage buff and remove the healing. Make the burst AOE much larger than Bennett's or make it an effect that follows the player. Granted the numbers would have to be carefully balanced. This would also potentially free up Kazuha from vape focused teams in favor of Sucrose (further balancing the two of them). This would give several existing teams a additional option (Yoi, double hydro, Hu Tao).
Would love to hear your thoughts on the possibility of alternate-movesets for characters, such as other gacha have them(say, Another Eden's extra styles or reIncarnation's different costumes). A polearm Childe or Sword Raiden Ei, for instance. Do you think it possible? If so, how could this be achieved?
Oh I play Another Eden before, I am lucky to get my first another style which is that blue haired japan swordman another style : orange clothes..
Nilou have alternate skill...
1 dancing gracely and give water aura
2 dancing fiercly with her sword and deal high dmg to enemy.
The archon of the main region for that version are always at the top of the meta when its released, remember mhy controls the meta by changing the enemies and abyss compasitions not the characters themselves, Zhongli was at the top with the shields until we got corrosion
Even when pyro was popular I used anemo more. My weakest element is cyro because I don't like most of them aside from keaya and chongyun
Oh I have good cryo character but I rarely use them, i don't know why... I always use dendro element mix with electro and hydro.
So pyro is the rarest element that I play but I really favored Pyro, I wait for Natlan...
At this moment, I find Hu Tao to be a niche character (Hydro + Shield), Kinda like Nilou or Ayaka, and that´s not bad, but On her next reruns, that would affect a bit her general apreciation
@@Moonlight-fh7yo I know, but lately there's so many complaints about flexibility, that some spaces in the community find it like a bad thing, that's why my perception for her rerun it's gonna be a bit down comparing to the times before dendro, mostly to the skill needed and the composition of her team (5 stars) even if they are the best, the "optimally way to spend primos for a F2P" philosophy don't help in that cases
Technically Hu Tao is only optimal against bosses, as against more than one target her dmg tanks.
She is one of the characters with the biggest fanbase, which explains her high popularity even if she isn't broken.
Also, her single target team dmg gap before dendro wasn't even that big when compared to other teams (and I believe there were some team that beaten her comps already).
How is Ayaka niche?
@@Moonlight-fh7yo They sorta are...
Hu Tao - to unlock her full power needs a shield and a hydro.
Ayaka - to unlock her full power needs a freeze team. Or a Melt team... but that requires you not to c6 your bennett.
Cyno - to unlock his full power needs an aggravate team or a hyper bloom team.
Eula - requires a team around super conduct.
most of the main dps in the game require some sort of Niche team.. to function at their fullest. However!
any hydro DPS / sub DPS can be used on any team... because hydro is the core element of all reactions and teams. Making hydro the best element in the game period.
vape, bloom, hyperbloom, burgeon, freeze, electro charge, swirl combos
the only 3 teams hydro isnt used is Quicken and overload... but overload is too annoying to use with most characters. And only a select few characters even use Quicken... but could simply do more dmg if they also just use a Quicken - Hyperbloom variant.
and melt... which is just using the Xiangling pyronado to even do.
Basically your supports are way stronger than your Main DPS and make up your actual team.
This is why the national team is so powerful and pretty much makes up the core of any team... or some variant of it.
i wonder if they'll do some gamechanging thing for pyro before Nathlan. Would be awesome. Like you know, they released dendro with Sumeru, so something similiar with Nathlan is possible ig?
just like nilou is a special support for bloom, in the near future, there could be exist a special support for burning, and this actually is compatible with cyro due to the virtue of cryo and dendro existing while not reacting. Nowadays ganyu burn melt team is mainly composed of ganyu bennet kazuha and nahida. The maily problem with this burn melt team is that for burning to continue, even though you don't need someone that's as good as xiangling for applying pryo since nahida's burning amplifies any pryo element, but you still need a constant way of applying pryo, otherwise it quickly runs out. So the ideal new burning subdps would have very limited damage capability, but still be able to apply pyro constantly, but would need the help of nahida to constantly sustain melt/burn. By adding burning, you effectively prevent the new pryo sub dps being as ridulously broken as xiangling, but still taking advantage of the burning reaction. Leaks about dehya being a burn support are already in the air. Keqing, a quick applier of electro received a huge buff from dendro, expecially nahida, but klee, who is so good at applying pyro that t even xingqiu might reverse vaporize didn't make much of an impact. Even so, pyro is still incredibly broken. just not for the reasons you might think. In top speedruns, where even xingqiu is too weak to make an impact, xiangling stays on top not only for her screen-shot ability and being a good sub dps for childe vape team, but also acts as a pyro applier for yelan vape teams which requires yelan instead of xiangling to trigger vape. Pyro's reactions melt/vape are so broken that other reaction teams for non-reaction teams needed special supports to even come close. Until dendro, of course, which is the epitome of death by a thousand cuts. But even then, if pryo units could turn elemental mastery into crit rate like nahida, they would be even more broken, powercreeping everything else out of existence. imagine how fucking broken pyro yelan or pyro shogun would be. Pryo is so broken that the game devs had to hold off from introducing better pyro main dps units and support since 1.3.
One single element has thrown pyro out of the meta that is "Dendro"
There is not a single new Pyro unit for over a year now, even if Dehya count
I just find out that when burning enemies if you apply overload in them the burning will not stop, in fact you can overload multiple times. I wish someone would talk about this.
Yes! I remember how my abyss team is always Ayaka Freeze, Hutao double geo xq, or childe vape over and over again. But with the new update esp with Nahida, I was able to enjoy with Keqing, Fischl, and Kuki
As a Klee main, I totally agree that if they made Klee of field DPS then that'd change her whole range of use and utility.
I even have an EM Witch set that sitting around waiting for that possibility or if I ever feel like building a burgeon team
All Pyro Characters
1 Fire Aqua
2 Gordon Ramsay
3 Unlucky
4 Batman
5 Smol Megumin
6 Rockstar
7 The Best Gameplay Trailer in My Opinion
8 Law and Order
9 Fireworks By Katy Perry
10 House Husband
gameplay trailer is klee? bru
@@absolblack5629 pretty sure Klee is "smol megumin", they probably meant Hu Tao
@@absolblack5629 nah, small megumin is Klee
@@JacobAcornHu tao does look like megumin tho
I got all of them but unless this person is an amber fanatic, I think best demo is hutao
me just casually doing electrocute kazuha then vaporize overload on yanfei then dendro came up and my elemental team got messed up now i got geo team elemental team then dendro with scarce artifact mostly that i have to relocate some artifacts on my other characters and its always a pain to up chars while making different and effective combos now me planning to do burgeon + hyper bloom if i ever got shogun
I think there is a few things that can br done to help fix Pyro, the first step is to make a Pyro version of sara/gorou/faruzon to buff the element as a whole, to prevent it from just being a hu tao support I'd maybe make them a good healer too.
I'd also try and throw in more niche units like a "Pyro nilou" that restricts team comps but can be competitive with the other elements.
Lastly, alter the effects of Pyro resonance, a simple attack boost isn't enough anymore, especially after the buff to hydro resonance
If only Klee's burst stays when you switch characters, she could've been a top tier unit.
But then wouldn’t Thomas work well with reverse-melt ganyu? You need the enemy to be affected by pyro before you start attacking with ganyu
1. Thoma needs normal attacks for his collapse but Ganyu only does charge attacks
2. And more importantly: His ICD. He only applies Pyro with every second to third wave in general. The ICD is every 2.5s or after three hit. And Ganyu needs more Pyro
Regarding Burgeon builds, its still basically a vape comp except theres now a chance you can instead trigger Burning and get Hydro-triggered Vape (which has higher scaling than reverse vape) or you get Burgeon which provides the EM your Dendro character stacked (Zhongli, Hu Tao, Xinqui, Nahida) it lessens Hu Tao's overall vape dps, but the constant reactions of alternating Vape, Burning-Reverse Vape, Bloom-Burgeon, was a huge shield melter for me in Spiral Abyss Floor 12-2 where there were 2 cryo lawachurls and 2 electro lawachurls
edit: actually its probably because Nahida is too good thats why this comp worked, providing so much EM to Hu tao with her burst and the constant application of dendro just perpetually cycles reactions
I agree pyro is stuck at least in this spot without new systems attached to it. It is essentially numbers but nothing else, while every other attack type other than physical got big numbers + a bonus. Burgeon is interesting, but anything I can think of to double down on a burgeon specific support character would inadvertently power creep something else like Aggravate or Vaporize.
That said, Xiangling all on her own makes pyro the beginner’s big damage element because of that permanent event.
pyro aside i've been thinking about the concept of a geo driver for mono elemental teams, they use 4 piece petra and have mono elemental supportive capabilities in thier kit, crystalize won't ruin reactions since there aren't any to bigin with.. idk will that work, if it does i want it, basically 5 star ninng
I try new comps in the abyss to keep it fresh. If I (rarely) struggle with the new characters, due to them being under-leveled or under-geared, then I go back to the tried and true: national, freeze, or hutao +zhongli+Qingqui.
he is very much right, when dehya and the pryo archon should come out if there are going to be dps must be able to powercreep the previous pryo dps or otherwise be irrelevant or of the archon is going to be a support then they would have to be better than bennett and xinagling somehow
The only next utility left for Pyro is DOT damage (Aside any kind of added buff they can put into the characters). So far the only team we have seen this working is the Ganyu + Nahida + Pyro which allow melts in an easy way. Now suppose they create a pyro Character with Nilou mechanics which makes the burning reaction do more damage. It will be an insane amount of constant damage over time. So you apply dots, wait sometime then they die. Like the old good broken warlocks in some wow patchs. Of course also waiting for Alice to be a one punch woman with a huge nuke.
9:19 An optimal Hu Tao isn't actually all tanky : her most optimal builds have her running EM instead of Sands , making her max HP usually hover around 30K , but she wants to be below half health to deal the highest amount of damage , so 15K HP , lower than even a catalyst users base HP + a flower . The reason she feels so tanky is because she is almost always run with Xinqui who offers nearly 50% damage
Well has been more than a year since the last fire character was released, they need to release more fire support characters
I don't really keep up with the meta, but I remember when it was all about big numbers on single hits, which makes Pyro a great choice. If it's true, though, that the meta has shifted away from that and more towards other utilities, then I don't think Pyro will ever be considered as strong as it once was, especially since a) Dendro has now been released and its reactions have been seen, and b) more characters are coming out with abilities that make such support-oriented builds far more flexible than a Pyro-focused build could ever be while still having significant damage-dealing ability. My current main team uses Nahida, Raiden, and Barbara, with the fourth slot changing depending on circumstances; Because of the way I have it set up, I deal tons of damage in a large area while almost never being at risk myself, and I almost never have to use Pyro at any point.
Long story short, I don't think Pyro will ever retake the throne with the way the game has developed, and frankly I think it's for the better. The range of new abilities we have seen have made it much more interesting to experiment with new compositions, while still having plenty of options for damage-focused builds if that's what you want to go for.
I think its because of the inflexibility of most pyro carries. Diluc and Hu tao virtually have the same team members as their most optimal support, klee has jank problems and yoimiya kinda has the same shtick with diluc and hu tao but worse in exchange for more flexibility in her team compswhich was ,back then a bit of a weakness due to overload being her only other viable comp but with dendro, aggravated firework or even burgeon can work now due to her high attack speed.
I dunno Maybe we can have Geo do %health damage via thornmail/sunfire mechanic whenever crystals are picked up since they're usually build around def anyway
Bennett would have been a lot more balance if u just swap is ult, c1, and c6.
So now his ult would summon a circle that infuse NA with pyro and heal. C1 would give u attack buff. C6 would remove the 70% HP restriction.
What's wrong with having second bennett? They can alter the usage a bit, like the buff follows active character (like Yunjin) and although it doesn't heal, it gives pyro DMG bonus and EM. And I hope Pyro archon would provide consistent off field pyro application and attack buff, triggered by normal attack like Yelan burst but pyro
All I can say is, I like it better when we're getting different playstyles and reaction mechanics from different elements as the game progresses versus getting the same standard reactions. Therefore, I think Bennett, Xingqiu, Xiangling support playstyle weren't a mistake. We're just getting new gamestyle and reaction mechanics now and some players are still trying to play these new characters the old way and get disappointed after.
Man...if Klee ult was an off-field ability like Yelan, that would be amazing
Love the rescue dungeon bgm
When the ending music sounds straight out of mystery dungeon 😇
I'd absolutely love it if the reason for lack of pyro units turns out to be lore related. I also fully follow your logic here. It's really awesome that they diversified. Not sure how they'll move forwards without power creep. Terrified of power creep.
How about a reverse Bennet? Starts out doing pyro infusion and at C6 the pyro infusion goes away?