How Origins Improved on a Perfect Formula
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
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If Mob of the Dead was Treyarch putting out feelers to test a possible new direction for Zombies, Origins was them jumping in with both feet (giant robot feet?) and committing fully to this entirely new era for the mode; one that would be the blueprint for the next 2 full games and more.
"A Zombies Retrospective" is a series in which I play through each Call of Duty Treyarch Zombies map chronologically, and analyze its place in the series.
Media:
Call of Duty: World at War
Call of Duty: Black Ops
Call of Duty: Black Ops II
Call of Duty: Black Ops III
Dishonored
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Zombies Reveal Trailer
Mob of the Dead - "Where Are We Going" Trailer
Origins - Archangel Music Video Trailer
Zombies Chronicles "Timeline" Trailer
The Twilight Zone S3E26 - Little Girl Lost (1962)
CZcams Video Footage - "Jason Blundell ARRIVES... w/ Something Very Special! (The Reveal)" from JCBackfire ( • Jason Blundell ARRIVES... )
CZcams Video Footage - "REVELATIONS: SHADOW MAN vs MAXIS SOUL EXPLAINED (My Interpretation, Non-Hypnosis Theory)" from MrRoflWaffles ( • REVELATIONS: SHADOW MA... )
CZcams Video Footage - "Jason Blundell Talks Paris the Lost Zombie Map and Where is PHD Flopper! Jason Blundell Interview" from JohnyJ25 ( • Jason Blundell Talks P... )
"SCP-x6x" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"Supernatural" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"The Ice Giants" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
00:00 - Intro
01:41 - Easter Egg
08:04 - Increase in Side Content
15:52 - Complexity over Addictiveness
23:41 - More Conventional New Additions
28:57 - The Zombies Community - Hry
Wake up babe, White Cliff Games posted a new video ❤️
69. Nice.
Ughhh fine I’m up
I'M UP... I'm up
Crazy profile pic
@@kanutaro3426 on god
I think you nailed it on the distinction between "zombies" and "zombies 2.0." I loved origins both with and without my friends who were more 2.0 types, but I struggled to enjoy bo3's maps without a full team of people to drag me though the 2.0 system
that’s interesting because i’ve always found BO3 maps to be much easier solo because of the learning curve that my friends weren’t super familiar with
@@morgboat744Yeah I think BO3 was easier than any previous zombies prior to it, the gobblegum system and more refined engine made it that way. However BO3 was still peak zombies it allowed people to play how they wanted and had some of the best maps alongside Chronicles
Me as a person growing up playing bo2-bo4 I find bo3 and bo4 way easier than bo2. I have been playing a lot of bo2 lately and I’m finding it hard to get past round 10 casually with no downs if I have my brain turned off.
@@OminousBlast the double slap nonsense
As much as it is completely stupid from a gameplay perspective, I love the sheer balls of whichever developer decided to make a bunch of 14 year olds learn ANCIENT SUMERIAN in order to upgrade a weapon.
Legit know how to speak more ice staff than English
It’s not even learning it it’s just inserting an easy code you get off the internet. A kindergartner could do it
@@olivialilacy8141 there were people that had to learn it before guides
Hopefully they were think more about the 18 and older audience. That's the game's rating over here in any case
I think casual does a dis-service to the original style of map design. I think what works better is arcadey. Older zombies was more about your in the moment to moment skill and how well you could do (like an arcade game) where later zombies is where it began to become more about optimizing a set of objectives to be completed as efficiently and quickly as possible, to then reap the rewards. The original formula is incredibly easy to pickup and play, but hard to master.
Idk about that last part, the original formula was preeeetty dang easy to master... but I agree there is merit to the arcadey perspective
Eh, the og isn’t that hard to master, which is where the issue of replayability comes in. Doing quests gives a purpose to the gameplay. There are people who derive intrinsic value from increasing the number, but for a lot of us, working towards an extrinsic goal is more enjoyable.
@@cameronschiff132 i'd argue that it is not easy to master, but can be very boring to master
@@de_gree How is it not easy? Kite the zombies, cut in between when there's an opening, you're done.
@@cameronschiff132 im talking about actual high rounds not training on the stage in kino
I love this map but being the only “zombies 2.0” guy amongst my friends who were more 1.0 fans, it did in a very real sense also feel like the end of an era.
same man
I'm a 1.0 map last time i ever played zombies was early bo3 = Der Eisendrache but I always liked Mob and Origins on bo2
A man amongst boys
These videos have single-handedly revived my love for the Zombies franchise. Awesome work!
I love Origins but it’s refreshing to see someone not blind fanboying over it
true facts
agreed, i definitely think it’s a little overrated. still a good map that i enjoy but far from the best imo
It just depends on the person tbh, I see three types of zombies fans the Zombies 1.0 people the Zombies 2.0 people and the people in between who started with BO2. Although Zombies 2.0 for me peaked with BO3 after that it really downgraded a lot
@@morgboat744 how is it far from the best I get why it isn’t #1 but it at least in the top 5
@@penguinmaster3453 it might be my number 5 but even that is pushing it. i think it’s biggest flaw is that it separates setup from gameplay so much, with a LOT of time being spent running around the map grabbing parts instead of killing Zombies. funnily enough that’s the exact same thing i hate about TranZit
4:28 this. This is the only Easter egg I was able to complete in the whole series because it was just the right amount of convoluted and could be done whenever you had enough points to unlock that part of the map. There's some tedium but it's worth the reward.
This is the Easter egg I did the most of, I not too long ago redownloaded BO3 just to do it again with a buddy that’s how much I love this map
"No RNG"
me waiting for the correct robot to spawn :(
Since we've reached Origins I think it's relevant to ask this question.
When you get to the Zombie Chronicles DLC for Black Ops III I'd suggest doing 1 video, about the length of maybe 10 - 15 minutes talking about the changes done for each map. No need to go though them all again. But also hurrah of having the classics back.
Honestly, is talking about the returning classic maps in BO3 even worth it? The only noticeable change I remember was that it added the Random Perk Machine
@@bubalackgaming8892they swapped out PHD Flopper for Widows Wine on all the maps that had it
still my all time favorite map since this was around the time my crew did LAN parties to beat all the zombie map easter eggs. we actually encountered a few glitches since we only played local and had one where a panzer spawned on top of a electrical tower and we had to restart XD
Everyone in the same room running Zombies Easter Eggs is an absolutely unmatched experience, love those memories :)
LAN parties would have the room’s temperature raised by like 10 degrees from the rest of the house hahahaa
the bugs were too much for me. i had 2 runs that made it to the last part in the easter egg and both times, when my party had to put all 4 staffs up and get 100 kills one of the staffs had glitched out and disappeared. we aren’t that good at zombies so it took us a long time and we gave up. i say i beat it but we never were able to actually beat it
@@chungo4800 if this is what I think it is, it must've been the fire staff that disappeared. It had a habit of moving into the robot when someone died with it (or lost it if you had Mulekick and the staff was your 3rd weapon) after it was upgraded
dont stop making these. Its like SolarSands played zombies. I love the doc series
The thing I remember most about this map is a conversation with my older brother:
"So who's flying the planes?"
"Zombies"
"woooah, they can use planes?"
"Yeah"
Laughed at this, then realized it’s actually canon, during the Easter egg you shoot one down and see the pilot is a Zombie… I guess they really can use planes
Kills me to remember blops2 is ten years old. Ten.
This series has a wonderful balance of nostalgia accompanied with a mature retrospective view. The time and effort you put it in is always worth the wait.
I feel like the best part of this kind of zombies map is that once you learn the set up it's unlikely you will ever forget. I have never forgotten how to build the staffs find the maxis drone turn on pack a punch whereas in maps like moon and acension the steps just feel completely random leading me to forget entirely.
Yes!
I think the one issue I have with Origins' Easter egg is that the first steps are to fully upgrade all four staves and put them in the robots, but then they aren't actually used at any point. You can beat the entire egg without firing a wonder weapon. It just seems weird to me that they'd have you make these powerful weapons only to then completely ignore them.
They are used to open the gateway, imagine the power required for that. No time for shooting lol
@@ledgy69 Yes but compare that to the bows on DE for example, where you have to actually use the wonder weapons as part of the Easter Egg
pendatic but the fire staff upgrade? but yeah that is true…der eisendrache improved on this formula by forcing you to use the bows, which also simultaneously empowers you at the same time
Bruh I've played zombies since WaW nacht and this is the only video I've seen that actually explains why people like this map rather than just circlejerking about it 24/7
My only problem with the shift in direction that origins started, is that it’s not just one map you need to learn. It’s most maps that are very complicated to learn. So much knowledge needed to really enjoy the game mode vs to enjoy a particular map. Especially as the years go by
Even when this series ends I still feel like I’ll watch all your videos. With writing as good as this watching you talk about anything you are passionate about will be a treat
I took a break from zombies right before Origins came out and tried the map a month of two later with my friend at a sleepover. I was embarrassed by how bad i was doing because the map put so much emphasis on knowledge. I (an experienced veteran player) was getting destroyed doing traditional strategies that were completely viable on every map before it.
Origins was definitely a huge change that demanded familiarity with the map more so than traditional 'zombie' skills. Personally, I really disliked that and never bought the map.
This is a great way to put it! This map still required skill, but you could make up for missing skill to some extent with knowledge, which you hadn't really been able to do in the "old" style of maps. They were 100% about improvisational moment-to-moment gameplay so that was all you needed to be successful. From now on, you'd be able keep up with someone with more raw skill if you had a better plan based on knowing the map better
I respect that very much. To me personally who have enjoyed doing traditional strategies as you mentioned on previous maps before that i liked a lot, this stumped and frustrated for awhile also but it after some time when retry more times it actually made me want to learn the map and familiar to it and it surprised me as i enjoyed it. Of course its not everyone's cup of tea.
Banger videos. I’ll always watch a zombies retrospective, especially when they’re THIS high of quality
Wow actually a beautifully done video. I like that bit where u used same saying this is step one while talking about how this is the first real leap into a new era. Good touch :)
I was JUST thinking about you, you sneaky devil.
You’ve easily become my #1 CZcams channel as of late, don’t stop pumping out the content man we need more 🤙
I respect this map for being bold and different but wow it really set a trend in the series that I didn't enjoy. BO1 will always be my fav! Simple to pick up but hard to master.
I just found your channel and I don’t know how it didn’t happen sooner. Thank you algorithm. I can’t wait to binge your videos this weekend
Origins was the first and only easter egg I ever finished, and solo too, besides Cod World War 2’s base map easter egg. Both of those were definitely tedious but very fun and rewarding to get down. It felt like learning how to solve a rubik’s cube in how formulaic it became, to the point that I showed a friend how I’d been spending the past week doing it and got it on that go from start to finish. Very fond memories with that map.
Been waiting for the Origins video ever since I discovered this channel.
You did not disappoint, love the vid!
“Never waiting for any external factors” *flashbacks of waiting for the robots to spawn*
Incredible vid, couldn't of hit the nail on the head better. Definitely your best yet!
I'm not fully through the video but I want to point out the only "tedious" part is waiting for the right robot foot to open for the second step. Awesome video so far though :)
Incredible video.... exactly the kind of thoughtful game analysis for zombies I have been wanting to see so bad on youtube...
Back in the day this was MY zombies map, even as a casual player I always had fun and was always able to get a staff on time for the panzer. So fun
My only real issue with Origins is it is SO clearly designed for four players, and I mostly play solo when I fire up zombies. So I don’t really play it.
Basically I am the one type of “zombies fan” they explicitly did not design this for lol
Also, the only other thing with this weird mix of ideas is the Zack Snyder movie Sucker Punch. And it’s abysmal
The reason Origins is my #1 map of all time is because beyond the nostalgia for me it brought that perfect level of both being challenging and fun and the easter egg is honestly also a perfect balance of not being too hard not too easy, and not having super annoying steps
Origins was my favourite map, and I have been waiting for this video since I discovered you. Hope to see more soon :)
My favorite Map and youre 100% right with needing to learn this map so you could really enjoy it.
Back in the day me and my friends would always do the easter egg seeing how fast we could do it,
cant believe that it already has been 10 years .
Been loving these videos keep it up!
Ah yes, the point I stopped liking the mode.
I get this. Formulaic Zombies, has degraded the mode. The Victis maps are definitely better times, funner maps, more fluid and even had the awesome Persistent Upgrades.
When I was 10 years old, Origins came out, immediately I was hooked. I spent most of my younger years playing Origins. I seriously put hundreds, maybe thousands of hours in the game. Throughout middle school, I had a notebook that I turned into an Origins guidebook that me and one of my friends wrote together. We wrote many pages and studied the map for hours upon hours. I played it damn near everyday between the release of Origins and Black Ops 3, even when BO3 came out, I didn't really like Shadows of Evil that much so I would just go back into Origins until Der Eisendrache came out. To this day, I still play both the BO2 and BO3 Origins regularly and I've completed the Easter Egg so many times both with friends and solo. It has been such an impact on my childhood, it truly was something I could grasp, nerd about, enjoy, and grow from. I will never forget how special this map is to me even 11 years later.
This map fucked how maps onward worked, now every map is a quest and not just fucking around with friends its always a step
Gorod krovi?
Cry about it casual
Just play town or kino then
luckily every gun in bo3 is a wonder weapon, so you don’t need to worry about doing quests
Man I missed your vids
I absolutely love your content.
I absolutely love this map so much. There is so much to it that’s just so awesome and amazing
Origins was really my first foray into doing easter egg quests. They were something I never really bothered with before because they just toom so much work, but Origins put it at the forefront in a way that fit so naturally within the gameplay loop.
Great analysis video, straight to your point no annoying shitty humour just clean and concise, keep it up looking forward to more
I've played this map for years and I never knew the maxis drone can revive downed players
Ive only just gotten bo3 and have been playing these maps. This video gave me a new respect for origins that at first glance seemed so excessive that it became inaccessible.
4:30 Others have probably said it, but the step where you need to go into the robot then throw the g strike outside of the map sucks, especially on solo, since it takes forever for the right one to appear and you have no time to do it on solo
Edit- I paused the video right before you said that, oops, I'll leave thia here just for algorithm purposes though
Honestly by the time origins came out i was already fed up with extra steps going on in zombies from the easter eggs in bo1 and even more so the buildables and interactive type stuff throught bo2. But i think origins was the map that got me on board with this new style of playing probably because it was so rewarding for the effort you put in.
Been waiting for this video so pumped it's out🎉🎉🎉
Absolute entertainment and review videos you make man 👏👏👏
"You never need to wait for something to spawn"
Cough, cough, ice staff parts, cough, cough.
Been looking forward to this
22:00 hits on a really unique point. Despite Mob being one of my favorite maps and having my mind blown when I first got it, after awhile I couldn't play it all the time because of how fatiguing it felt to "oh yeah I need to wait for the dog to finish chewing before killing another" or "oh yeah I couldve shocked that with my afterlife but I wasnt fast enough" or... the list goes on. Because of this, Die Rise would be my go-to map.
I KNOW you did not just say there's no tedium or randomness in this map.
There are only 2 staffs that are not RNG based to retrieve. Then, beyond that, getting the necessary robots for the wind staff and easter egg step is a pain. Also I know you specifically mentioned solo being a struggle, but I have gone til round 20 without receiving the ice staff from dig sites. though, I have also got it on round 4 before. Origins used far too much RNG, an issue they changed in BO3 much more creatively.
been dying waiting for this tysm
I think it's fair to call the quests from Der Riese to the Victis Black Ops 2 maps easter eggs but once they become so front and center from Mob and Origins onwards I don't think that label really applies.
Where is the bo3 retrospectives 😭 we need them
This is such a great series I'm always surprised at the low view count. I know you'll really blow up soon!
I cannot believe there is some level of parallel in the narratives of COD Zombies and goddamn Pathologic
I think this map is what made me the gamer I am today and probably mob of the dead to but to a less extent. I became that personality type to absolutely master this map (from a normal playthrough perspective, not speedrun or anything). I took dozens and dozens of pug lobbies through the easter egg just to help them out bc it was fun doing it with people who were bad bc it added challenge.
Amazing video dude
Your videos and the new plutonium servers on pc have made me fall in love with zombies again. So much so that I bought black ops three and an beginning to experience “the golden age of zombies” for the first time.
i love it when waiting for robots is down to my own execution
I don’t think I know anyone who played every map up to that point and got to origins on bo2 and went….nah this is the turning point I’m done playing lol
@bananaphone3754 that’s super interesting! Guess I was ignorant of that perspective being on the inside. Thanks.
Half an hour, lets go!😁
was waiting for this 🖤
Great vid, im not against complexity, im against whenever im done with the easter egg Id have to repeat the setup, I don’t have all the time in the world, make it electively to choose from both
yo yo yo yo
I’d love these to be made like podcasts so I can listen to it while walking and stuff
25:35 ah yes the 'the wunderfizz'' machine
I Think you nailed all my points for why I think Origins is the best map ever made. It is able to cater to every skill level and guide you on how you can start to progress. I can remember as a kid being satisfied with just a Mark 2 pack-a-punched riding the tank aroumd the map, to getting a staff, to making multiple staffs, upgrading, getting the other equipment, to now i've done the easter egg at least twice (once with no perks). It's perfect
1:54 Little Girl Lost lol
Origins is not only the best map because of how amazing the experience was crafting the staffs, or seeing the robots the first time, or fighting your way through the muddy trenches, or using the maxis drone to drill down a horde, or finally entering the portal to another world to craft your nuke staff while still being able to upgrade it to have an awesome ability and even more nuke power, or doing creative and fun challenges to get crazy perks, or because of how insanely complex, epic, and rewarding the Easter egg is.
No no no, it’s because of how influential it was for making all the maps that came after it and switching up a simple sandbox formula into a epic complex narrative focused experience with characters that have emotions and have impact on the world, for making maps that have the same epic insane feel. Gorod Krovi, Der Eisendrac, Zetubo Noshima, SHADOWS OF EVIL, WALL OF THE DEAD.
People really fail to realize that BO3 was such an awesome zombies experience because of what they were built from. Origin’s was the ground work for all of the fan bases more beloved maps.
That’s why it’s still to this day my favorite zombies map. It’s a bridge from the old to the new, you still have that old pre BO2 feel, while having the epicness of the later maps.
i have to be honest, bo3 maps remain unpurchased for me due to the overly complex for the sake of being overly complex story. the last good story-focused map that i can REMEMBER is MOTD because it tells a complete story. there's no unnecessary cloaking of what is going on.* SOE in particular irked me because it really wanted you to EE but it's just so annoying loading up zombies basically just to do chores for like 40 minutes then and only then being able to really have fun. i'd rather just boot up kino or a custom map on bo3.
*i know we didn't know why the purgatory was in effect until bo4 but bo4 doesn't count because it fell off. just kidding, i just think that it wasn't something that felt purposely neglected, it just wasn't the most important thing. that map wanted to tell a story of betrayal, not explain how big bad wanted to trap these guys in alcatraz and the warden agreed and blah blah
My first Zombies experience was Kino Der Toten when I was in high school. It took my friend and I at least 10 games to get past the dog rounds, and another 10 to figure out power/PaP. At the time, it was the scariest game I'd ever played, and one of the three games (the other two being Call of Duty 3 and Killzone) that elevated me from childhood games like Crash Bandicoot, Tony Hawk, and Mx Unleashed.
Irvin’s is my absolute favorite map!! I used to play it all the time as a kid and then when I got old enough I got it for my ps5 spent months grinding beat the Easter egg and felt complete! I even love to play it for fun!! First Easter egg I ever beat with friends and it makes me want to do them all
Great video!
Cool Video Bro!
gotta love when the community writes your own lore
How white cliff games improved on a perfect formula. Amazing content as usual
Awesome video 👍
It's finally here.. can't wait for the black ops 3 ones!
3:13 upgrading your drone??? are you high? lol
I freaking love this map.
Great video
One thing I miss about Black Ops 2 zombies is the ranking system it gave you like the skull with two shotguns which meant you were really good at zombies
I love your thumbnail ❤
BRO I WAS WAITING FOR THIS NEXT EPISODE AND CZcams DIDNT NOTIFY ME WTFFFFFF
14:57 that’s literally how I play I treat every map like it’s town, and obviously it doesn’t go well
I wish every zombies had custom options like bo4 where you can disable bosses and stuff like that
I’m bad like that
The one map that took me forever to complete the easter egg.
Oh boy yeah
I’m just happy you were playing the bo2 version and not bo3s
ABSOLUTELLY BEAULTIFULLY SAID
I do wanna say on the whole that this is an excellent review on its own. Even if I disagree on points, I was still enjoying myself and it has a decent presentation throughout.
I did want to mention two points as I walked from this video:
1. A lot of design decisions are very intentional. But I feel like you end up giving a lot of forgiveness because of that. Yes, the power is meant to give you a choice on if you want to get a max ammo or not. But if what you get for saying no is having to reactivate multiple power stations (or even all of them if you really let the knights go), then it's not a choice. You're being forced to do it if you want to keep perks and pack a punch on. That is the intention I got from it.
2. I am curious on if you're saving this point for BO4 (when this issue really starts to rear its ugly head), but when Zombies switched to this new philosophy, it had a lot of... unintended consequences. The obvious and immediate one is that a lot of people who didn't have interest in Zombies before will probably not be convinced to play it when they have to do a lot of objectives to get the most fun. But the long term one? It bred a whole different community to emerge. For BO3, they were fine and most of the spinoffs from other studios were following in Treyarch's way so there wasn't much problem (plus they were probably waiting for Treyarch anyway). BO4? The community turned vile. A lot of attacks were made to members of the studio as they felt betrayed with how zombies was treated during that game and many of the design choices that occurred in BO4. And it never ended there. For Cold War, the game had switched to a system that could easily be played by causals and they saw a lot of growth *because* of that. The problem is that the hardcore community from BO2-4 felt betrayed once again because there was nothing cryptic to find or the easter eggs didn't take a whole ass week to find the steps for. It does sound hyperbole but there really was people who believed that. For Vanguard... I rather not talk about what happened with that, especially with came out of the original zombies creators.
That second one has a lot of nuance to it. It really was a problem that occurred over time rather than something we saw immediately.
Other than that, great review as always. (currently going through everything myself and i am enjoying myself.)
Origins is the most important map ever , also the steps were not cryptic, we all played vorkuta in bo1 haha
Dibs on the ice staff
HE DONT MISS
funny story, my first time completing this EE solo, I hit my rain fire first try, but it was on pc b03 version
I'm so jealous, I miss it every time
Little bit surprised you didn’t talk about how awesome the Avenged Sevenfold music video of an opening cutscene is tbh.