The Giant vs. Der Riese: How Treyarch Changed the Game
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- čas přidán 9. 03. 2023
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How much can you learn about a team's core game design philosophy by examining a couple maps they made over 6 years apart? Well, what if those two maps are actually (at a high level) the same map? That can be pretty revealing as to what goes into the smaller, less noticed things, and how those things can slowly change and evolve over time.
"A Zombies Retrospective" is a series in which I play through each Call of Duty Treyarch Zombies map chronologically, and analyze its place in the series.
Media:
Call of Duty: World at War
Call of Duty: Black Ops
Call of Duty: Black Ops II
Call of Duty: Black Ops III
Call of Duty: Black Ops 4
Enter the Gungeon
Hades
Slay the Spire
Spelunky
Call of Duty: Black Ops 3 - Zombies Timeline Trailer
Der Eisendrache - Awakening TrailerThe Giant - Gameplay Trailer
Zetsubou no Shima - Official Trailer - Hry
The Map that saved the launch of Black Ops III for the Casual players
Yup. I love love love shadows now, but jesus i didnt really like it at launch
I am not sure - did the very casuals really buy the map or did many never return? Remember stilk 5€ barrier
100% agree. SoE is the biggest piece of dogshit.
@@marcusstrymon693 you actually had to buy the season pass at launch to play it. It wasn’t until later they added the map as a standalone 5 dollar purchase.
@@Ultimataco Thats absolute garbage... I can only imagine all the noobs playing shadows and hating it
The Giant was a lose/lose situation. Change too much? People will complain that it strays away too far from Der Riese. Don't change enough? People will complain that the map is a waste of time and unoriginal.
Personally, I'm somewhat satisfied with the map we got. I think my favourite aspect of it is still the fact that it doesn't make any sense in the storyline whatsoever. Probably the most intriguing and mysterious Zombies map to this day.
@@Nothingforever192 Sometimes I ask myself if the Zombies timeline was mistake. Even in BO2 and BO3 where the story was more upfront, you'd still have to dig in order to connect the dots and there were a bunch of really mysterious radios & cyphers that really made you question if what you were playing was actually what you were seeing.
Though at the same time, getting the timeline was so satisfying and it sparked a lot of discussions for the first month. They probably shouldn't have done it though.
Why didn't it make sense in the story?
@@themayhemera3046 I think it's because of the video that plays before playing Der Eisandrache
@@smugplush WAW/BO1
@@themayhemera3046 The whole "lighting up the beacon for Maxis" thing is never mentioned ever again in the storyline. It also doesn't make any sense since Maxis must've known where Primis went after Origins. When you complete the quest you also get a pop up saying "paradoxical prologue"
There is a radio/cypher (can't remember exactly) of Dempsey losing his hair, talking about how "they lost" to presumably Dr Monty. The Primis crew telling Ultimis Richtofen "to awaken the test subjects" ??? Why? It's never explained what they were talking about.
Dempsey mentioning how they've travelled to Brazil and the Moon. Nikolai saying that they've fought in 3 World Wars.
And finally, the really bizarre loading screen we got later on in 2017. One where the Primis crew along with Ultimis Richtofen arrive at Dr Montys house. There used to be a conspiracy that The Giant actually took place much later in the storyline.
Only real thing that bothered me with this map and the other classic W@W maps is, they didn’t have the OG guns.
Small detail but it would have been so cool going back and seeing weapons like, the browning, flamethrower, ppsh, stg, tompson, In the OG maps.
FACTS shi pissed me off I want my og guns and og pap skin 😭
I just gotta say I love that every map you do these convoluted steps to get the souls of the other characters but on the giant Richthofen just shoots his past self in the face and that’s it
Richtofen didn't het his soul from the giant. He got it from a child version of himself.
@@HaHa-cj9yd when does he get it from the child version? Because only Samantha and child Eddie survived in the storyline. Is he left to be a soulless husk?
He got it right after he got the key from soe then he made a "pit stop" aka got his soul and after that he got to the giant. Ultimis Ric was a red herring fake out to convince the other 3 to kill themselves and get the story going pretty much. The timeline mapped it out for us when it was released years ago we got that little detail.
ANOTHER WHITE CLIFF GAMES ZOMBIES REVIEW WOOO
Who’s that
Furry
@@brysonkuervers2570 yes
I still wish they had gone with the Purifier instead of the Annihilator as the specialist weapon for this map. It would have been more useful in general and also been a sort of throwback to the M2 in WaW.
100% if they were in a time crunch and had to port a multiplayer specialist over 1:1, the Annihilator was probably the least interesting option. But, at the same time, it’s hard to say how far along they were in the design process for Gorod Krovi and they might have already known they wanted to save that for the dragon gauntlet!
@@whitecliffgames Reportedly that's exactly the reason an MP specialist was added, but I think you may be right about the Gauntlet being at least conceptualized about that point and taking the "Flamethrower specialist" role.
And if that is the case then it kind of had to be the Annihilator by default since every other MP specialist already had a Zombies counterpart (except the HIVE, I guess, but even then Trip Mines kind of filled the role it provided and had their own slot).
@@ClonedGamer001 My dumbass was about to say the Tempest hasn't been used as if the wunderwaffe isn't filling that role
@@zackwalker1789 Honestly I forgot the Tempest even existed in the first place. I'm pretty sure I've used it maybe twice total.
The flamethrower would have been thematically appropriate, too, since you find the specialist weapon in a furnace
The Giant was my all time favorite map. I’m a pretty casual player and didn’t have friends to play with by the time BO3 game out, so Shadows of Evil and Der Eisendrache went way over my head. The Giant was the map I could load up, get a nice, more powerful BO3 wall weapon and just enjoy myself from there.
100%. I remember their was a pre-order or season pass thing in order to get The Giant, so I didn’t have it at launch. And Shadows Of Evil felt so obtuse and confusing I hated zombies for a long time. If I had The Giant at launch, I proly would’ve stuck with zombies way more. Especially cuz Der Reise was always my favorite map. They should NOT have done whatever shenanigans they did to get that map at launch.
Finally, someone is calling it a remake instead of a remaster.
On the criticism of random perks on The Giant, to add another perspective, I'm becoming a bit of a high-rounder and random perks make the map better for that. The original Juggernog location in WaW/BO1 is terrible for getting it after you go down in the middle of a high round in BO3, with how badly the zombies spawn ahead of you. No monkeys is a guarantueed game over and even with monkeys is dicey. Being able to reset your game until Jugg is in a more desirable location is nice. Especially since I see BO3 as being more of a casual/easy/high-round friendly game, anyways.
just be a better player bro
@@KaptainKlutch123 you right bro
There's a reason why it's called dead man's corner. 😂
@@smugplush I don’t disagree but going for high rounds is hard enough as it is, so I can’t complain if Jugg is in an easy spot if I’m doing that.
@@half-hazard8903 Jugg being in the worst place in the map makes it the worst perk to actually get to, meaning some people will probably try to make do without it as long as they can
bring back simple zombies maps. and easter eggs that leave you wondering. not leave you running around the map the entire game for a magic stick
Idk bro that moon Easter egg is pretty long and complicated (at least for solo) and that’s in bo1 lmao
This is by far my favorite CZcams series.
When you really think about "The Story' of The Giant, you start to unearth some dope things. It was Richtofen's access to himself, meaning the version we see killed here is ALSO Eddy in Cold War. The Hide and Seek EE lends Maxis a hand by showing him where this crew is at, making it easier for Monty to track the crew through their loop in BO3, and by extension how Maxis reaches out during Alpha Omega. It's the second time we get to experience the Primis crew over the Ultimis crew, and although the send off could've been more sentimental, Richtofen shooting himself is a very Call of Duty way to meet that same goal. It isn't the same map, but I think that lends to the overarching narrative they were setting up. An on the nose way of saying, "We're not repeating BO2 again, this year it's different." and Jason and the team provided what was arguably one of the coolest years for Zombies fans. Thanks for the awesome video, really got me appreciating the teams commitment to this project!
Actually that Richtofen isn't the one that ends up in the summoning key. That one was just a random version of Richtofen that he got in the 2 years between Origins and the Giant. Though now that i think of it, how would he have collected it if he only got the Summoning key in Shadows of Evil???
All this map needed was a wonderfizz to unlock instead of the stamin up-dead shot random. It’s absolutely insane that they didn’t do that and I think they learned their lesson in chronicles when they added it to every remaster.
Adore your videos so much, hands down, the best analytical video essays I've ever seen on video games, and not just because zombies is something so close to my heart. Can't even imagine all the time and effort that goes into these. Thank you so much for making them.
The Giant having random perk locations made for replayability.
Simple and repayable. (I never played WaW) it's the reason I kept going back even though it didn't have much to do.
The Giant isn’t a map I play too often simply because I prefer the full quests of other maps, but it’s a perfect map to introduce new players with. Love playing it with my siblings. And it’s nice to have a causal map in the still beautiful BO3 graphics
Nah that would be Kino, easily the best casual zombies map ever.
The Aether story began partially in Verrückt. As Dempsey was one of the 4 marines at Verrückt. But the full beginning started in Shi No Numa
"Aether" didn't start until the Onset of the Moon Pyramid Device.
Everything up until moon and sorta Shang was just Alt-History WW2.
It was Jimmy thinking he'd be able to make a game for PCs and then being forced to gut Tranzit of all its content to even fit on Disk that kicked off the need for Jason Blundel to start pulling things out of his ass to try and secure himself a "Good Job." Before he too completely dropped the fucking ball with Origins after the smash hit of MOTD.
@@TheBuster0926 but origins is considered to be one of (if not) the best zombies map?
@@TheBuster0926 origins is amazing bruh what’s your problem? lmfao
The Easter egg ending cutscene to origins is kind of complete shit tho
@@sharkapuppet Yeah as a kid I was kinda like “woahhh!” now I see it for the generic “it was all a dream” or “it was all in their heads” ending that it is lmao.
I’m not going to lie, the randomness made me take so many new paths I would have never tried.
What new paths
Just finished binging your retrospectives, cant wait to watch your vids on the rest of the BOIII maps!
My favorite thing of the OG is that you could keep stacking bouncing Betty’s and they would be your last defense. Just like the trailer. My least favorite thing of the remake is that they updated the song :(
I actually lile the remix but yeah if it ain't broken don't fix it
@@TheMACnator I feel like I always forget then get blindsided when I go to activate the song every other 6 months lmao
Yeah that remix is garbo
Its funny, initially i was impressed with the giant and the fact they had subtly changed and added enough to feel like a diffrent shade of paint.
That said i find my self playing der riese declassified because it feels like what the gaint should have been
Brilliantly done video, again, as always.
Honestly I really like the giant artistically, it looks beautiful and the bo3 movement feels great to me. The remix is pretty good, i do slightly prefer the original but it probably wouldn't fit this map as well. I do prefer the original overall however because I prefer the og crew, and prefer the weapons sandbox and fixed perk/ box spawns. Loved the video keep up the great work.
The Giant is by far my favorite casual zombies map.
My only problem with BO3 is not enough old guns and no stackable bouncing bettys just those gay trip mines
i get so excited when you upload
Inject these videos into my veins!! We will be waiting anxiously for the next one
Absolutely love these videos.
We gotta get Lex to react to my man to make him grow
@@smugplush true
No thanks
The Giant really should have been base because Shadows was not new player friendly at all. I dont know why they didnt when every other game after WAW had two maps at launch (except exo zombies). I honestly don't like the snow because it's such an overdone theme in zombies nowadays. The Giant, Der Eisendrache, Origins, Die Maschine, Voyage, and Tag (alongside 2 WW2 zombies maps) were snowing.
or they could've made shadows less complicated. I'd say about 35% of Shadows's complexity is unnecessary. For example: the symbols are really unintuitive and don't flow well with gameplay at all, and having to do all 4 rituals for pack a punch is far too much. Instead make the rituals a bit harder (not super hard but not basically a cakewalk like they are now), and then only require 2 Rituals for pack a punch and all 4 for the Sword.
Nice to see your channel grow! I've been watching when you had 1K subs. Hope you get to 100K! :)
I prefer Der Risese simply because of the weapons xD
Damn bro you earned a sub today
Babe wake up another zombies video just dropped
I’m curious to your thoughts on the remixed Beauty of Annihilation? Personally I like it but it’ll never beat the original.
The original is probably my favourite Zombies song of all time so I agree it’s never going to be above it, but I was listening to the remix while editing the past couple days and I’ve been loving it! Very different vibe but if you’re in the right mood I’m a fan
Another great video 👍
Love this series
i love you bro
take care of yourself
Not talking about the The Giant's radios more in-depth, the introduction of long character conversation, Icarus and the unexplained state of the story from The Giant's prespective, is a big miss here for the video. There's also more to say on Der Riese's side (Chalkboard, the flying brick message, etc.)
If he is so jaded by change that he's bitching about random perk spawns you really think he'd talk about that.
@@TainyaGaming Did you watch the video? He literally gives pros and cons about the random perk spawns but points out that they don't really make much sense since the map isn't built around it. Seems like you're the one that's bitching
Great video
Return of The King
I love these videos.
My only problem with this map is that it wasn’t a part of the Chronicles bundle
Excited for the DE video :]
this is gonna be pretty off topic but tbh i would just love to have the blundell style back. dont get me wrong bocw is great gameplay wise but theres something about the feel of zombies that really went wrong with bocw. maybe its the lack of a main crew or the fact that its a different story, i dont know. but bocw definitely feels more like a multiplayer mode rather than how we all remember zombies from bo2-bo4. you can hate on bo4 as much as you want but bo4 still felt like it was crafted with love. bocw on the other hand felt like a stripped down version of zombies cause they just integrated map specific stuff into the core gameplay like the shield or special grenades. making maps not feel as unique as bo3 and bo4 maps.
der riese/the giant is my favorite map across waw to bo3, and i think the best part about the giant compared to the original is the change in atmosphere without changing too much of the essential gameplay, like the change in ambient music, primis characters (even if some quotes are reused) and the snowy weather. i wish the earlier chronicles maps did more of that, so that the maps felt a bit more like remakes than remasters, outside of updated graphics and the inclusion bo3 core gameplay elements like gobblegums, without changing too much.
Babe wake up White Cliff Games posted another Zombies video
Babe wake up, white cliff games posted
As a Giant player I aprove this
Honestly I thought The Giant was a poor remake of Der Riese. The pacing was really off due to how much less aggressive Bo3’s zombies are and in general it lacked the grit, metal-vibes and energy of the WaW/Bo1 version. It didn’t help that the Art redesign didn’t match the personality of the map, it was a holdover from Origins
The remake of Beauty of Annihilation was also awful
I agree with about half of this. That remix is awful like 99% of remixes. I like the art changes because it feels less empty in a few areas. But it's definitely a step down from the og.
It was actually supposed to be in Black Ops 2 but Activision didn't want DLC 5 to interfere with Ghosts
I agree, the artstyle of the map is not bad by itself, in fact I find it quite interesting on it's own, but in the context of the map itself it doesn't feel right.
bruh, there's no way I'm going the left path and skipping out of the Thompson A.K.A the best wallbuy in WAW
the atmosphere of WaW is also a lot better IMO
Use to play bo3 all days chronicles lost my old account will buy it again for zombies
11:59 Hades is so good
Are they 2 separate maps in the story or is the giant just a prettier remastered version
Could you do a video about Der Eisendrache?
My favourite map of all time.
The biggest change for the giant and all of the chronicles remasters is the fact that bo3 itself changed the spawning/despawning mechanics. None of the old high round strategies work and this is why.
The original sound track was so so much better
whats the song at the end called? i remember hearing it in every zombies vid during the bo2 era
Beauty of annihilation remix
1:48 where can you find this story animation?
Great video dude! Didn’t realize you were such a small creator until I subbed. Keep up the good content sir!
love this series BUT WHY DO YOU NOT KNIFE DURING INSTAKILL!!!
0:34 But BO3 was the first game that slowed your move speed?
this the of all time
So it’s the same? This is where I dipped from the mode
More content please 😢
This map would've been better had the damn easter egg song been working
I'm sorry ppl went left on Def Reise?
I played every zombie mode from WaW all the way to BO4 and in my honest opinion, zombies peaked at BO1. There was a ton of mystery to figure out but it was also somewhat grounded and much easier to follow.
All the multiverse, keeper/apothican, dimension hoping stuff was way too convoluted and just ended up ruining the story for me.
I really enjoyed the days when it was a meteor that fell and contained a new element which was experimented on by government agencies, it all felt so much more interesting and fun
I agree with you. When the Gameplay was the main point (an alternative to both campaign and multiplayer) and not be about tedius easter eggs
Plus the main story being about science ficton and not being about Magic bs fits the premiss of zombies better especially considering the experiences that the Nazis had in real life. creates a more creppy and somewhat real atmosphere than when they introduced mysticism B02 was actually the natural conclusion to the original story.
Radaustin did a really interesting vídeo about this (sci-fi vs magic on zombies) couple years ago
The Giant will never eclipse Der Riese. It could never live up to the original, but on top of that they changed too much in my opinion. Random Perks are entirely unnecessary and take away a part of the map’s identity. Jugg was always a hazard to get if you downed on later rounds etc. and randomness took that away for better or worse. The ICONIC song receiving a subpar techno remix also didn’t pay off. Novel ideas, but ultimately pointless.
The snowy overcoat is pretty cool, but they managed to really mess up the lighting on that map. The blue, moonlit snow combined with the heavily saturated lanterns and flames really is an eyesore after a while. From some barriers you can’t even see the zombies approaching.
All these issues, while not really dealbreakers on their own, came into full display with Chronicles. As someone who loves WaW maps, I can play Nacht, Verrückt and ‘Numa and still enjoy their atmospheres, but Der Riese is missing. There’s something about the original that’s really lacking in The Giant. Of course, I still play it a lot. It is the best camping map that requires very little setup. Still is a great map. But I get tired of it very easily.
Never been this early before
As someone who grew up in this era of zombies, I can confidently say that zombies climaxed at B03. They were able to take an already great and straight forward mode (what you see is what you get and nothing more) and evolve it into an awesome story centric mode. B04 could’ve been a great follow up to this, but they gated their dlc behind a 60 dollar pass and the change to the perk system really turned me off of the game.
Also i'll consider this the map that saved black ops 3, shadows of evil while good if you know what you are doing but if you don't know/remember anything without looking at a guide, the map is a chore and boring. This map however had a main easter that is not only a easter egg but it was simple that even the casual fanbase could do it and enjoy it.
I honestly think the direction they went for black ops 3 was a horrible one because i never really cared about doing easter eggs and just trying high rounds and all the easter eggs became like a chore and almost every time i queued for a match if i didn't know/want to do the easter egg they would just leave and it was made worst in black ops 4 i just miss the World at War zombies days
I wish they made a procedurally generated map.
I like rouge likes for that because you have to learn the game because you couldn't master a map because it had one easy area.
Intuition is a challenge and fun, but I don't like 2D games
Lol, as an old zombies player, most old zombies players just hate BO3 because it doesn’t cater to their stingy nostalgia.
Good video but I can't shake off that you are saying the name of the map wrong
I feel very strange about takeo being a white guy
der riese is better imo, along with all the og versions of the chronicles maps except for origins
I've never been a fan of Der Riese. This map and Shang are my least played maps in BO3.
I actually love the giant but I think everyone can agree that that remix of beauty of annihilation is absolute trash. I get they wanted to completely separate it from the original given that this was the third remake of it but they really should've just kept the OG music in
i cant believe you guys are comparing The Giant to The Giant, me personally i would chose The Giant, The Giant is alright but The Giant is just way better by a milestone
*if you dont get the joke der riese in german translates to the giant*
11:16p.m. 3/10/2023
Ok and ?
what ruined black ops 3 for me was having to pay for simple maps. I like to play zombies just for survival and I bought bo3 a 2nd time just for zombie chronicles. I dont have any other maps and I enjoy just having chronicles because it's simple. black ops 3 was too complex and it costed too much to just have something you could play for survival.
I like the Giant but I do think it's a downgrade from the OG Der Riese
Cod bo3 zombies actually a joke of a game double pap completely ruins the point of any gun by just making it fking wonder weapon just why
The Giant is a horrendous waste of content. We needed new maps that weren't tied behind a paywall at the time of the release of this map. Now the third iteration and adding nothing substantial to Zombies as a whole... I'm under the impression most defenders of this calculated cash cow are shills for COD. Nostalgia may sell, but it surely doesn't retain interest. The only people who actively chose this map over Shadows or any of the future DLC of BO3, were those folks seriously challenged when it comes to gaming, and attempting to get something out of the $60+ he wasted on BO3 in those days. Please note I said: "Shadows or ANY of the future DLC..." There was nothing in Chronicles even, that the Giant offered better.
@@dylancatlin1329 this guys entire rant screams “women actively avoid me”
I personally like The Giant. It actually feels different from Der Riese, because of Blundell’s approach. It’s easy to compare the two because it’s an actual remake, not a remaster or a reimagination. If only they took notes for Blood and Classified.
I think it has more replay value than Der Riese. I also think the new PaP system in BO3 allows for better experience for solo players, despite making the waffle gun obsolete. The random perk spawns also keep the game at a consistent pace for different areas to be opened instead.
The Giant is a good example of a remake done right. It had just as, if not more enjoyment as it’s WaW counterpart.
I don't know if I got it or not.. but always changes do not mean an impact on the story itself, and if it really had an effect and that they had a problem coordinating the story, there would have been a strange connection in the story of Black Ops and zombies .. until this hour no one knows that there is An intended sign from the beginning of the zombie story and the main story of the game.. I discovered it while repeating the play and indicates that the company had a plan from the beginning for this whole story, but deleting the maps and changing the developers makes you wonder if the secrets were changed by mistake
The fact that it's completely random whether a perk is on the map or not is completely asinine. Deadshot and Stamin up aren't even remotely on the same level of usefulness. Horrible design decision.
Perks are also random in bo1 der riese
Sadly BO3 was the last CoD game worth enough to buy lol... at least it has acomplished it's task of being the last, good enough to not forget.
Bo4 is worth the money
Never played the giant
Cool vid though
I like Cod Bo3 The Giant more then Bo1 Der riese, so it goes like Cod Bo1 Zombies version of Der riese, Cod Bo3 Zombies The Giant which is the newest version of Der riese, and then the Goat Cod WaW Der riese which is the best version of Der riese in Cod Zombies, btw WaW Der riese it's a A tier map in Cod Zombies.
I love how people on their ranked map lists rank the giant worse than der reise lol. Blinded by nostalgia
No. WAW and Bo1 der riese are infinitely better aesthetically. Especially world at war with the real old weapons with actual firing and reload sounds, the characters and quotes are way better too and no dumb ass brain dead gumballs to cheat your way through. Black ops 3 is just a garbage kids game version of zombies
@@corralzin4909 Like the guy said, stingy and blinded by your nostalgia.
@@Wadiyatalkinabeet_ ur blinded cause because there's no filthy op ass double pack a punch in bo1
Bo3 is peak
Bo2*
The giant is a garbage map. Constant dog spam rounds 20+, rng on perk spawns, rng on waffe, rng on stamina up/ dead shot spawn, rng on monkeys from the box, rng from extra perks from the teleporter, and no drops from the waffe. Complete garbage map, would maybe be a 4/10 if dogs didn’t spawn constantly
This dude gonna freak out when he figures out what the mystery box is.
fuvk glibblegums
Don’t use em
@@PartyRockerOG in the time between u reading and relying u never thought that maybe i thought of that
@@ITdoer-eg3rr then be quiet for once
@@PartyRockerOG stay mad perkaholic
@@PartyRockerOGthe game is built in mind that u will use them
BO1 Der riese is better than the Giant.
Instead of criticize other maps, why don't you try to make youre ideal custom Map ?
Corny comment
Meh. Der riese declassified is superior