We Need to Talk About the Diamonds
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- čas přidán 3. 10. 2019
- The Diamonds and their redemption has been a hot topic of debate since the conception of the fandom. Unfortunately, this has created a large divide within the fandom. Those who believe that the show is teaching problematic messages, and others who believe that the message is handled fine.
Now that Steven Universe the Movie is finally out, the verdict is in. Have The Diamond's been redeemed? And more importantly, do they deserve to be?
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I still think that Change Your Mind butchered the pacing of Steven Universe. because, you're right... in the most pedantic sense, the diamonds are not "redeemed" so to speak. but they did all change their minds at once about Steven. prior to Change Your Mind, the diamonds didn't even seem to grasp that Steven wasn't just a different looking reformation of their Pink Diamond that they knew before she was "shattered" and they even treated Steven like they expected him to have the same personality "flaws" that Pink had. it took Pink literally dying for them to see that something was wrong, and even then, the wrong thing was "oh no, Pink is dead!" not "oh man, we really drove her away with our horrible actions!" as one would hope.
what I'm saying is that, if the rest of the diamonds see Steven as literally Pink herself, then they're going to treat him the way they would've treated her, which looked as though it hadn't changed at all. OR they're going to see Steven as a totally separate being and have even less reason to value his opinion because, well... who the hell is this? White literally pulled Steven's gem out because she values Pink more than Steven.
when Steven changed their minds, he wasn't upturning their values as leaders of the gem species... he was convincing them that listening to him, wanting him around, valuing him, and putting stock in what he would prefer that they do, is worth it. and for a hot minute, none of his attempts to do so were working at all. even White Diamond pulling his gem out in an attempt to get Pink back was just another indication that Steven's values should mean nothing to her. I know it seems like a climactic moment when she realizes that Pink is gone and Steven is all that's left now, but that just means that it's impossible for White to get what she really wants. how is that supposed to result in her listening to Steven? like... listening to Steven more than she ever even listened to Pink when she was alive? more than she was prepared to listen to Pink if she had gotten her back? the writing presents this strangely!
and that's not even to speak of the whiplash I got from Blue and Yellow. Blue is the most empathetic out of the three diamonds, and even she should've taken a longer amount of time to convince to change in any way. she was always pleading with Pink to just be a good diamond and do what diamonds are supposed to do... you could appeal to her sense of relief over having found "Pink" to be still alive, but even that should've taken time... and then to flip Yellow almost even quicker is even more jarring! this is not to say that the diamonds shouldn't have ever changed their minds on anything, but it should've taken more time, and more work, and there were so many things that could've been done with them in the meantime. it would've been so good to keep them in this "villainous" role for a while longer as Steven tries to figure out how to get through to them. there's so much wasted writing potential! and so much wasted villain aesthetic potential too, if I'm being totally honest. I will forever lament that White Diamond never got an eerie villain song wherein she possesses a large number of other gems with her brainwashing ability and forces them to become a perfect choir to back her up. that would've been some _top tier_ villainous panache. it could've been so good.
but yeah, basically ever since they arrived on homeworld, it felt like they weren't seeing enough of it. and especially because Steven is new there, and I would've thought he'd be curious about it all. as an audience member, I sure was! I've said this in other comments on Steven Universe videos before, but ideally I would've wanted an episode that mirrors Pearl's story in Now We're Only Falling Apart, wherein Pearl showed Pink Diamond around Earth, and Pink decided she wanted to protect it. in this case, it'd probably be Pearl showing Steven around homeworld, and Steven coming to a similar conclusion. but this would highlight the differences between Steven and his mom... Steven would have all the pieces of the puzzle, and he wouldn't be running away. Pink was stepping into a convenient lie, while Steven is embracing a difficult truth.
an episode like that, even just one, would give us more of a sense of scale, and a greater understanding of the location that the story is now taking place in. it'd be great for worldbuilding, and introducing new gems as background characters. and then the next thing I'd probably change is how Steven and Connie escape when they're imprisoned for fusing into Stevonnie. again, I've put forth this idea in other comments sections, but I was hoping that Lars and the off colors would come and rescue Steven. it would've been so easy to set up too... once Steven had possessed one of the watermelon Stevens, he could've just gone through Lion's mane to get directly to Lars. that whole crew is already in space and near homeworld in some capacity, so it'd actually make more sense to ask them for help because they'd literally be able to get there sooner, and they're guaranteed to have a functional ship to use, whereas Steven's plan in the show really relied on the Earth crew having repaired at least one of the Diamonds' arm ships... he had no idea how close they were to being able to do that.
from there, I think it would've made sense for Steven to start a revolution. Pink didn't even really start a revolution herself, so much as she formed a resistance. resisting the Diamonds' takeover of Earth is totally different than actually trying to revolutionize gem society for the gems she left behind on homeworld. Pink mostly just wanted to carve out a place for herself to feel at home. Steven's goals could be more big picture. and it also just makes sense to try and enact societal change from the bottom up, rather than the top down. those in power will rarely change what they're doing unless they have a reason that benefits them even more than the current system... and that's not only really hard because they're already the most powerful, but it's also pandering to them even more. it doesn't get at the root of the problem. causing social unrest, and having strength in numbers, forces the leader to acknowledge the importance of those that they consider beneath them, and it also makes them aware that what they're doing is fundamentally not working.
and the thing is... Steven could totally do that in a nonviolent way! he could simply offer gems a choice between living under homeworld's current system, or having a life free of those restrictions. he is a diamond, so by right, he technically should be able to leverage that power as a leader in his own right, even by the logic of homeworld's current system. all he'd have to do is give gems somewhere to "defect" to, if they feel dissatisfied... and there have been numerous hints that a lot of them do. heck, they could start by recruiting the Amethysts from the human zoo... I'd love to see those characters reintroduced to the narrative. and if Holly Blue then reported it to Blue Diamond, that could draw Blue into direct confrontation with this budding rebel group. this would set the stage for Steven to confront the diamonds individually, and address their flawed leadership one at a time. as I said, I think Blue would definitely be the easiest to sway, and would have to be the first """redeemed""" and I definitely think Yellow should've taken a lot more work, and White should've been a long awaited, final boss level confrontation of some sort. again, not even necessarily a violent one. just climactic, and with narrative weight and long term payoff. what this show needed was another season or two with the diamonds as the main villain... which I know they probably didn't/don't have, but that really shows here. because the pacing really is bad.
People don't change overnight, the diamonds struggling to change who they are is a good thing since it's more realistic.
I agree, we shouldn't just tear ourselves to shreds
The diamonds' behavior in the movie was solely for the sake of comedy
@@theonetruedonut I doubt that.
"I've stopped waging space wars... for now!"
"I've stopped killing people!"
"I've been saying please and thank you to the peasants!"
That's a very convincing argument, ladies. Very convincing. That will certainly win him over.
I mean...it's a start XD.
Better than them doing it tbf.
I believe that blue's actually trying tbh
But you'll never know till later-
A little off topic, but I'm gonna point out something that's been bothering me for a while, and that's the fact that Yellow dissolving her armies might not have been a good idea.
I'm all for pacifism guys, but what if Homeworld gets attacked by an unknown enemy? Even Steven has acknowledged that it's okay to fight if there's no other option, and I get the feeling that "a fleet of enemy warships are flying in and they won't back down for any reason!" is a good reason to start fighting.
That's why white is pissed in Steven universe future other gems are gonna try to overthrow the dimonds and white is gonna question Steven about this and be super pissed
“Judging anything by appearance is WROOOOONG :D”
Chloe Wade "lower life forms-" "what did we sayy " "UGH 'equal' life forms"
@@nerdychocobo I think what you meant to say was "Yeah, I don't about this"
@@canineclient7006 what?
Everyone could tell that she was being sarcastic at that moment in time :D
Meanwhile, Steven's just like " =_= "
Best case scenario: they're making amends and sort of trying. Worst case scenario, they're putting on a show "for now."
After all, how well do we all really think they would handle Steven's eventual death as an organic lifeform?
*_[... yeah... but would he die from old age, seeing as his age is based on how old he feels?]_*
@@Ruby-Doc
Genes have limits: any living thing with DNA will eventually die, and if not the DNA will just keep on degrading until he's a living mummy.
@@vicenteisaaclopezvaldez2450 Theory: As Steven ages, he learns to tap more into his Gem powers (as he's been seen to be doing). As his organic body dies, he learns to create a synthetic body like other Gems do. Immortal Pink Steven is born.
@@fennecwolfox That makes sense. We saw a small glimpse of it in Change your Mind
I think Blue is an exception to this. While I wouldn't say she's redeemed, it's clear she's definitely changed her attitude towards things. When she talks about having not shattered and not made anyone cry she sounds genuinely proud of the fact, rather than like she's being forced to do something unpleasant, like Yellow and White. Obviously this isn't something to be super proud of, but for someone in her position it is something that would be a big step. She is also the first one to admit the problems with their empire, as well as the first to embrace change. On top of that she knows that "lower lifeforms" (humans) are not as simplistic or so far below them as originally thought.
She does refer to Spinel as "one of Pink's treasures", but it's worth nothing her first reaction to hearing about her plight is one of sympathy. Her attitude has developed drastically after Pink "died." The events of the Diamond Days Arc and Steven's attitude were the catalyst to finally push her in that direction fully. Having actually faced her grief and embraced it seems to have cultivated a level of empathy in her. Aside from a one or two hiccups, she pretty much accepts Steven's way of life and ideas immediately.
Honestly, this was my thought on Blue.
Blue is like that one racist aunt or grandma that actually tries to change
@@Fisinocean Like Kowalski from Gran Torino.
Yeah, Blue seems the most likely to change. She’s been miserable and completely depressed for thousands of years. She learns that humans have feelings. So she could make the connection and develop empathy towards others.
Plus, it looks like she gets to spend time with White and Yellow more often, since they've all been asked to change together. I don't Blue _or_ Yellow want to go back to the way things were before.
To me, the Diamonds' characterization by the movie felt a lot like your racist relatives trying to get on good terms with you - someone who is willing to change or at least pretend they have changed, but doing so because you want them to, and they love you - not because they have realized the error of their ways. Which is still better than not changing at all - they are willing to expose themselves to a different worldview even though they have not understood it yet. It does to a degree devalue their actions while attempting to redeem themselves, but it does not devalue their attempt at redemption. Yes, they are acting nice to please Steven, but they could have just as easily done to him what they have been doing to Pink Diamond - forced him to act in line or locked him away and pretended that everything is fine. So, they have changed their minds in a way that they recognized a need for change - they realized that their worldview is flawed and hurts people, although they, as of now, don't fully understand why it is flawed. They are still self-centred egotistical jerks, but they are trying to get better, and that deserves at least some recognition.
Or maybe they just want Steven to like them because of Pink, and that's all there is to it - I still choose to subscribe to the above because it's less upsetting.
Basically
Yeah
I can believe it more from Blue since she knows that humans feel hurt and she’s been miserable for years. So if anyone would change it would be her, because she could understand “they think just like I do”, that is, she can start to understand empathy.
HOUND project They are not racist relatives but much worse. They make the likes of Hitler, Stalin and Mao Zedong to look like choirboys. Species, races and planets are eradicated by their iron-fisted rule. Their servants are slaves that are manufactured for spesific purpose.
Diamonds do enforce everyone to regard them as God-Queens of their species...
Yep. I think one of the major themes of the movie is that change is HARD. It’s hard to consciously improve yourself. It’s hard to not grow complacent. It’s hard to not dwell on a negative world view.
But it is ultimately worth it.
Damn, if Steven can manipulate an entire interstellar, planet destroying, dictatorial matriarchy, imagine if he was evil.... 😳
I actually had a similar thought about him picking that flower, then healing it with his spit.
It was at that moment that I realized that healing magic would be utterly _terrifying_ if a sadistic villain were able to use it...
CJCroen1393 why would it be terrifying?
@@josephinamungaray6118 You can painfully cut someone into pieces as long as you please, they aren't even allowed to die until you say so. You can even heal them completely, just to hide your secret pastime. If they fear you they won't talk. Truly horrific.
@@josephinamungaray6118 Imagine a villain doing what Steven did to that flower to a small animal or a human. And then doing it over, and over, and over...
You don’t have to! Pink Diamond existed.
At least Blue looks like she's trying.
probably because she's the one that cares the most
Lucas Santos yeah she’s the one who kidnapped Greg
@@cryptidliam8452 She also seemed to be the one to use shattering as a punishment more than the other diamonds did
One Aesthetic Boi yeah to try win over Steven she said ‘I haven’t smashed any gems!’
+Fluff Whiskers Context. She did that because she thought the Earth was still in danger of imploding due to the Cluster.
The only one who might, MIGHT be redeemed is Blue, since she was the most open to it, and Steven actually reached her. She's the one who got Yellow on board, and White's attitude change only came when she realized she wasn't perfect. But Blue might actually have changed in her heart. But... That doesn't mean any of them should be forgiven.
They never asked you to forgive them did they? You can choose whether or not you want to like them or not.
None of them are redeemed. They are beings that have existed for Eons, if Steven completely changed their mindsets in 2 years that's akin to having someone change their ENTIRE BELIEF SYSTEM because they brushed by someone on the street.
Yes, Blue definitely is the most receptive and easily influenced by Steven but you have to remember, her saying "I never shatter gems" is her saying "I don't kill people anymore" and it hasn't been that long since she stopped in the grand scheme of her existence.
Believe me, neither I nor Lea are saying that the Diamonds are irredeemable if that's what you are uncomfortable with. We're just saying they aren't close yet. None of them, none of them have truly changed. Steven is their incentive to change and they are still early enough in the process where if he was removed as an incentive or a greater one was placed somewhere else they would revert in a heartbeat.
@The Earth Is Dying Because Of You I think there is something wrong with you. Nobody is saying they can't be forgiven we're just saying that changing superficially to please someone else isn't worthy of forgiveness because they haven't truly changed.
@The Earth Is Dying Because Of You I didn't attack you. I just pointed out a mistake. You're the one that typed in all caps "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU". If that's not an attack I don't know what is.
I would forgive blue over pink... even just a little
Rome wasn't built in a day. The diamonds are starting to see things in a different light but real, long-lasting, change takes time.
That's the feeling I got. They've been set in their ways for thousands of years, and the movie takes place only two years after Change Your Mind. Of course it's going to take them a while to fully understand the changes and why they have to be made. But they are trying. Steven couldn't have been there for every time they do something (like disband a colony or say please and thank you), so the fact they continue to do it when he's not around is worth noting. There is a level of autonomy ("Steven said this is bad so I shouldn't do it") in their actions.
Plus they're immortal, so it's not like they have a limited timeframe to change or anything. Unless Greg decides to do his thing again...
They've been conquering entire planets for eons, yet Steven managed to make all 3 diamonds "see the light" in just one day.
@@CJCroen1393 i think that is called:"death by snu snu"
@@alexandrub8786 *tHe OLd uNiVErSe CHArm*
White Diamond even comments on how disgusting the Earth is at one point in the movie, so....
Ironically she had a problem with the earth being destroyed yet homeworld is split in half XD
@@TelikiMouse She probably isn't a fan of that either.
Not gonna lie, she has a point lmao. Earth is a mess atm.
@@summanus4437 it is but the irony XD
Let's be real. The Earth is kind of gross XD.
I think when people say "redeemed" they mean "faced no real consequences" for their actions. They are purely fixing the damage they did to appease Steven, not because they regret what they did.
Agreed
Then again, what could you possibly do to punish them?
They're literal gods who can shut any gem down with a _thought_.
@@reasyrandom
If this was MLP or Adventure Time, removing their powers.
Someone could have also used the rejuvenator on the diamonds as well....
True, and I also think when people say “redeemed” they mean. “No longer an antagonist.” As well.
@@DrawciaGleam02
What would be the point if what Steven is doing acomplishes the same goal of keeping them from causing any harm?
White: Goodness no! Because judging anything based on appearance is wrong!
💎
👁 👄 👁
Blue Diamond: I don’t murder people anymore.
Yellow Diamond: I liberated my colonies!
White Diamond: I use manners-
"Ok good were making progress"
"Ok good were making progress"
"..."
"I've been saying nice things even to those filthy organics!"
"White >:("
"(sigh) _Very clean_ organics..."
Progress? I guess
Whites improvising at least, using good manners is much better then mind controlling people
The Diamonds have spent eons running an entire society the way they felt was best. It's going to take some time for them to change their ways.
Lucas Martinez change yo profile pic how you look now
I've no interest in doing so thank you.
Lucas Martinez Wait a minute...YOU HAVEN’T GROWN AT ALL SINCE THAT PICTURE WAS TAKEN, HAVE YOU!? *YOU’RE AN IMMORTAL EXTRA-DIMENSIONAL BEING, AREN’T YOU!?*
Whoops. You got me.
that’s what i’ve been saying. the diamonds are thousands(maybe even hundreds of thousands) of years old. the amount of time that passed from cym to the end of the movie is the gem-time equivalent of like an hour. the diamonds won’t truly be changed beings until long after steven’s gone
Steven in the movie is all like, "I've had enough of this mess!" XD
Giovanni Orellana yeah, so that’s why he seemed a bit impatient. So he had enough. Especially that he had already experienced sooo much in the past.
I don't blame him, he deserves a nap. :)
Starry Animations & more! I agree
Just let the kid breathe for a bit
Rightfully so! Like jeez the kid's been through enough! Now he's gotta go all the way back, start from scratch, after literally _just_ singing a song on how they've all come so far, after feeling accomplished with himself that he brought peace to the galaxy... LIKE OMG! I agree with all of you, he just doesn't get a break! He's barely come to terms with his own problems, now he's gotta deal with fixing his friends, himself and the earth because of this demented pink Betty Boop ._. How has not broken after all this pressure and struggles? Omg I just want my baby to be happy ;~;
I’m glad you mentioned Pink Diamond as an example of what happens when diamonds are shattered. It bothers me how many people think shattering them is a good idea.
1. We’ve never seen a diamond shatter, we don’t even know if it’s possible and considering their power it’s going to be near impossible to do so to one, let alone all 3.
2. Unless you’re able to shatter all 3 at once, the remaining diamonds in power will just cause another civil war, likely even worse than the gem war.
3. If by some miracle you were to shatter all 3, what makes you think all of gem kind would suddenly be on board with following the crystal gems? They just murdered their leaders! This would cause complete chaos and so much death and destruction.
Neutralising them is a better option in every single way. This isn’t SU forgiving tyrants, this isn’t SU being mushy and redeeming all the villains, this is just the most logical course of action to reduce harm.
Point number three is the one I'm surprised so few people seem to understand. Like, how do SU Crits _think_ such a scenario is gonna play out?
The Crystal Gems: (kill the Diamonds)
Steven: We did it! We freed you all from your servitude! No need to thank us!
Homeworld Gems: ...
Steven: ...What?
Homeworld Agate: THOSE MONSTERS SHATTERED OUR BELOVED LEADERS!
Homeworld Aquamarine: GET THEM!
When indoctrination runs this deep, it's hard to unlearn. The Homeworld Gems aren't gonna magically switch alliances just because their oppressors are dead because in their eyes, they _weren't_ oppressed.
Good point, it’s best to as befriend the evil gods if you can’t defeat them, it’s the best thing that could’ve been done honestly
this is such a cop out. if you are right, it’s a failing on the writers end to construct a story with these themes and have the resolution be so thematically questionable. they wrote themselves into a corner, every facet of the story ran away from them due to abysmal planning
Tbh at best blue and yellow seem like the best candidates for 'redeeming', white is a toxic gem who literally FORCES her control on her gems and others + was willing to rip out Stevens gem all to just bring pink back, i think they should've bubbled her and locked her far away in some isolated galaxy or smth.
Seeing how white diamond is in the villain pic in the opening sequence you’re right
I actually more agree with what an analysis said concerning White Diamond being in the Future opening and here's my take on it: I'd imagine we're going to get an episode concerning her trying to further overcome her prejudice even a bit. Maybe Steven invites her to Earth to meet people, but the giant worm thing (which is the same shade of pink-red as her) somehow is able to over take her and control her and when she arrives, she and Steven fight.
Possibly at the end of the episode she has a very empathetic moment that hey, being controlled against your will and forced under another's heel is really shit.
Fennec Wolfox that sounds... dumb
I think she's being controlled given she looks like she is in agony in the villain shot (plus she looks like she is forced fused with Jasper or something
@@Direwolf181 she's not fused with Jasper. I think that she probably got corrupted
I hope that Blue and Yellow get redeemed. I want white to remain antagonistic
Same, or only blue
Maybe she can be only redeemed
If the Diamonds actually become antagonists again in Season 6, I'll stop watching.
I'm just fed up with them, I think we should focus on other villains.
@@reasyrandom Yeah. They can provide some good episodes dealing with letting go of personal demons and dysfunctional behavior, but their time as villains has past, even if it was rushed.
Well looks like you’ll get your wish in the Steven Universe future theme song they show all the villains and white is there .
God I hope White is just playing a redemption Arc and is still a villain.
I want yellow and blue to fuse to stop white.
@@fanta6285 Yea, I mean early on in the show Amethyst and Pearl couldn't even stay as opal for more than half a second, but when it came to saving Steven they were on the same page. And Garnet's first fusion was completely by accident.
Thinking White split off a chunk of her personality into a Dark Diamond, Jekyll/Hyde style.
If the three diamonds do fuse they better become the hope diamond (the most expensive gem ever)
I'd rather have a bigger/badder villian, the diamonds have destroyed planets for eons even if there was life there they must have a lot of enemies that they thought they'd wiped out that want revenge and they've mentioned the diamonds being at war with another alien race for seasons it'd be cool if this came to play
Hitler: "You know what guys, my bad!"
Allies: "Aww, shucks. That's our Hitler!"
The irony is hitler was seen to have a lot of potential to be a great and influential statesman by everyone he met, american, english, german, etc. But then he got mixed in with political extremism and scapegoating.
@@robertharris6092 no "Mein Kampf" was already written as he became chancelor, he only was good at rethoric - but yes, he was such a good guy, he only learned the best things from Mussolini - also the same could be said about Stalin, he could be really funny in privat, but does this redeem him of anything he had done? but ok, for a "democratic nation" that redeems itself time and time again for every war it started in middle east, no wonder where you get such views
Ironically Vegeta has a higher body count then Hitler and people were find with him getting a redemption arc.
Honestly people had a complete 180 towards the Diamonds.
“Look, they are all literal dictators and kill their own people but Pink hurt people *emotionally*, so she’s basically Satan and they’re all kind gentle out of touch quirky parents!”
Steven didn’t ‘forgive’ dictators, many fans did. The show clearly shows that they are extremely toxic and abusive. He got them to listen.
EXACTLY OMG
THANK YOU.
The diamonds might be dictators but Pink is a race traitor who caused more harm than good and her selfish actions lead to countless gems being shattered or corrupted. Most of the non crystal Gem gems are fine with following their inter purposes.
Sayo Toshimoto Ahah...no.
She decided she wasn’t cool with the Diamonds killing a planet of beings. She realized what all their bullshit entailed. That is, murdering countless just to use the planet for spare parts.
They chose to go to war over *one* planet. They could’ve just decided it was too much of a hassle but no, they went to war, their choice, over one planet that they weren’t going to use.
They were basically just going to hollow it out and reduce it to rubble, barely functioning even as a planet.
Going to war over the thing they were going to trash was their idea. They’re the war criminals who corrupted innocents because they couldn’t handle being told no.
And of course they’re happy, if they show that they aren’t they die.
@@dr.altoclef9255 yes and also it wasn't like pink never tried to talk to diamonds we we're shown over and over in the show that pink did everything to save earth. Even after starting the rebellion she still pleaded as pink diamond to just leave the earth alone. It was only her shattering that finally did something.
I honestly think Blue is the closest to being actually "redeemed" since it shows she's actually trying to change
How? The show makes all the Diamonds seem like they're trying to change. I think the only reason you say that is because Blue seems softer than the others. She did just as many horrible things as White and Yellow and is only changing to Appease to Steven.
@@rat-dog7357 -Shattered Gems
-Imprisons Humans in a Zoo
-Didnt try to understand Pink
-Shattered gems
-Conqered many planets
Yup
@@huwutao8726 The shattering and conquering gems is something they all did as a group, so of course.
Imprisoning humans in a zoo. This was mainly done to protect them from the earth so they could still destroy it for resources. Is it wrong? Yes. But we help endangered animals in the same way (which is how the diamonds saw us, Connie being called Steven's pet is a good example of that).
She also didn't get the chance to understand Pink due to a line of thinking. Once Steven made her aware that what was happening wasn't normal, you could tell she felt terrible for all she did to Pink. That's why she proudly declares that she hasn't shattered any gems when Steven visits (compared to Yellow being annoyed and White just trying to get brownie points but screwing up by calling other gems lower life forms).
As of right now, she's doing it because of Steven and for Steven, but she is generally trying to be better. Compare that to Yellow who's annoyed she has to do all this, and White who's just doing this so Steven can come back and be with them.
Did she do wrong? Yes. Is it redeemable? Eeehhhh.... Hard to even try to say with them just starting their journey to being better people.
Thank you. This what I needed. And really think about it: Steven basically got an empire in the palm of his hand. That's actually pretty cool.
I definitely want to see more development on the Diamonds' part. It would be interesting to see Homeworld calling them out on abandoning their purpose as Diamonds just to chase after Steven.
I think the diamond redemption argument sort of lost what the main point of criticism was.It's not that the diamonds have been redeemed, just that the series decided to end without ever really tackling how a gem would feel about being controlled by the diamonds for this long. Like, what the hell must white pearl be going through??? How did she cope after all these years now that steven effectively freed her from living as a puppet?
At the end of the day, a totalitarian regime getting broken down won't happen overnight. But when it comes to how the gems and the surrounding world reacts to the diamonds, it seems like there was never a moment of reflection. Spinel's character was honestly kind of wasted; not because of her past but because it was connected to rose instead of another diamond.
Just like TR says, I'm not expecting that Spinel would have shattered a diamond. I just think that it would have been more compelling to have her take it out on the diamonds instead of rose and have steven both defend the diamonds and relate and empathize with spinel. Rose being a punching bag missed a really good way of actually showing some damn cause and effect with the homeworld gem's new relationships and feelings with the ruling class. Hell, people shouldn't like steven and many would be understandably jealous and mad at him too, just for being a descendent of the ruling class.
He's a lovable great character but the atrocities of the diamonds are just. not. recognized. Not by a single gem outside of offhandedly by the crystal gems.
Thank you! Someone said it clearly
That's the problem, SU even had to end prematurely. It's why fan content benefits from this.
I think they're going to make it a big focus in the new season.
I thought Volleyball Pearl was unconscious when she was controlled.
@@greenamber9827 She was. Pink Pearl said herself that "8,000 just *blimp* gone".
My issue was never "oh no, he didn't shatter them", it's just the whole way he made them listen to him was unsatisfying and rushed.
I actually quite like it, to be honest. Because everything White Diamond did was based on the belief that she was perfect and flawless in every way, always right about everything. The fact that she was wrong about Steven being just Pink pretending to be a human was the main game changer. Steven's little remark only added salt to that wound, causing White to blush slightly. This proved, and showed to everyone, that she is in fact capable of being "off-color". After this she couldn't deny it any longer, and had to open her mind to reconsider her worldview. No one says that the change will happen fast, though.
U guys love missing the point on purpose dont you? HER FUCKING WORLD VIEW WAS CHANGED IN THAT MOMENT
@@yonsetv5223 I get that her whole world view was to be changed, but the phrase being aglorified version of "no u" seemed a bit weak, considering how she didn't pay no heed to any words until then, you would expect her reaction wouldn't be embarrassment, but to zap Steven some more to shut him up. If you are so rooted in your own beliefs for that long of a time, a simple single rebuttal will not make you suddenly crumble.
I personally loved how Blue Diamond decided to help Steven because she wanted to, how Yellow realized that fighting Blue wasn't worth it and how Steven practically said "fuck you" to White.
If anything, I would've left Blue and Yellow controlled by White for a bit longer, having them float around the palace like her Pearl and actually providing foreshadowing for White's defeat.
It would've ruined the pacing of Change Your Mind, but I would've preferred that episode to be two 30-minute episodes back-to-back rather than a 40-minute special.
Agree
*LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OPENING OF **_STEVE UNIVERSE: FUTURE_*
Hope Diamond Sasa-GAY-o 😍 Yesssss!
@@Phobiaversity *HYPE*
I actually love the heated discussion around the diamonds and what it says about redemption. I love it because these are problems we face in the real life justice system. They say the goal of justice is to rehabilitate bad people. And many people think that, in order to become rehabilitated, bad people must be punished (i.e. to be redeemed, you must go through hardship). It's basically the idea of Karma. But more recent science shows that punishment can often have the opposite effect. Doing bad things to bad people causes a negative feedback loop, ultimately making them worse. Many cases have shown that just skipping the punishment all together, and using neutral-positive techniques (like steven does), can actually speed up rehabilitation. Yet, we still insist on punishment. It doesn't feel right to let a tyrant, a murderer go free, even if they're harmless now. And sometimes I agree, it does feel wrong. Does not killing people anymore mean they've truly changed? What is the goal of justice? Some surprisingly big questions are brought up from this discourse and i am here for it honestly
Rom, I think White is the only one that really can’t be redeemed, everything seems so fake about her...
I think while what Steven is doing is better for the Diamonds, they will likely go through some hardship as they change. Even now they've gone through a lot of grief after Pink left them which is something none of them have really experienced prior to that. That's something for them to work off of.
That's a really great point! It's been interesting to observe where people determine that violence is the only solution. Revenge vs. Justice is an age old trope, literally. Go back to myths thousands of years old and you'll find people making commentary over the same problem: where does the violence end?
And now here comes Steven Universe putting theory into practice and finally saying "hey look, I know they don't deserve to be forgiven but this is the only way to make everyone else's lives better." And people still can't fathom it. Revenge and justice are so deeply tied and engrained into our culture that "violence isn't the answer" sounds corny when it *should* sound radically profound.
Rom Sometimes i feel that bad people deserve the cruelest punishments because of what they did. But yet there are moments that i do think some need help in order to become better when they do feel some regret. Your points about rehabilitating others sounds so interesting, especially about the scientific part about how cruel punishments can effect a bad person in a very negative bad way.
I disagree. Without a legal system, people will think there's no bounds to their actions and therefore, instead of slowly becoming worse and worse, they destroy and be at their worst from day 1
This is why I believe punishment should be set
HOWEVER, ineffective punishments is what leads to this "becoming worse and worse" effect. The legal system should put severe punishments that will immediately stop criminals, instead of giving a few pulses every now and then (just putting them in jail then setting them free, then they do something so they go to jail again then set free, and so on)
honestly all this talk about the diamonds being 'redeemed' really makes me question if anyone knows what the word redeem even means. they certainly aren't redeemed, just no longer being evil dictators. which, is good, but far from redeeming themselves and everything they've done. And, noticably, Steven has never forgiven them for their actions, just showed them that they could just, NOT be evil dictators and that they should at least try to fix what they've done.
I think--just my opinion-some in audience think the Diamonds were not punished adequately for their wrongdoing, so they FEEL redeemed.
Basically who in our real world would treat the Diamonds how Steven did. It's idealistic but is it fair? The show sometimes is teaching about serious topics and treats it seriously. But treats genocidal dictators cartoonishly--like G. I. Joe and He-man. It's fascinating, because Steven Universe's writers treated cartoons seriously so did some of it's fans--the treated everything seriously.
@The adult Tina was here yep, agreed.
I mean no one's really in a position to punish them. They're kind of the strongest beings in the universe with the highest authority and have been for eons. Who's gonna punish them? I think having to change their ways and their society is enough of a punishment for them for now. Maybe more stuff happens in the next season and the future series.
@@lucasmartinez5703 You are right. I've been struggling the think of a punishment/lesson for the Diamonds. My idea is for them to willing give up their thrones and live wherever there is life most affected by their rule, wherever there is the most damage--while of course helping to fix their former empire (they're already doing the last part).
I think there's another factor to the lack of punishment: any amount of punishment inflicted on the Diamonds (at least at this stage) would only cause friction and hamper their ability to reform society. Sure, they deserve more punishment than they got. But A) they're kind of too powerful to punish, and B) they're too *useful* to shut down. Right now, they're *gods* who can use their social control to reform society and normalize new standards for behavior. Even if they only follow the letter of these social reforms, and not the spirit, they're still affecting widespread positive change with almost no friction. There's no point in punishing or imprisoning the Diamonds right now, because they're just too useful as willing pawns in the liberation of Gem society.
Maybe when everyone is settled into a better version of the Gempire, we can talk about consequences.
When the show ended I was like "so we're just going to forget all the planets and countless civilizationsites that they have destroyed for thosends of years " they aren't changing for them selves there doing it to please steven. I bet they will go back to how they where when steven dies
“Talking about beings that literally destroyed other planets”
“Killed their own species if they’re defective”
“Unfair and very unpleasant beings to be around with”
Well that sounds familiar.
@@unicornbunny5439
I was just throwing some shades to what humanity as done throughout history because I like to complain about human beings, lol. But it's irrelevant to the discussion about the Diamonds.
But to be fair, we are only destroying our own planet.
Soooo humans 1, Diamonds 0
Sounds like Vegeta from Dragon ball as well.
Kaleysia
That’s not better you do realize that 😂 But yeah this is off topic
@@m0m055 yeah, I know. It was a joke. ;)
This was beautiful. I love the Diamonds as characters, but yeah...
well two years it's not exactelly a long period for a gem so ... we can say that they are "in Phase" of redmption
BLUE seens tô be the most changed one
The show has always presented the Diamonds in either sympathetic and comedic light. The problem is, that when Kevin made Connie uncomfortable, Steven hated him. When Steven was told that the Diamonds tried to kill the closest things he had to moms or tried to kill them again, he called them family. How else is the audience supposed to interpret that? Steven showed full hatred/dislike towards Kevin but is only shown mildly annoyed with legit genocidal dictators.
While the Diamonds may not be Nazis in the literal definition, there is no denying they are a close representation to them. The mass genocide,the cruel experiments, the belief in an ideal race. These are obvious correlations. With the way Sugar has handled her characters thus far, I do not have high hope for season 6. None of her characters who have truly done something bad, has suffered any true consequence. And unless she turns that around in season 6, her characters and story in general will remain poorly written.
Edited for spelling
Thank you.
There is no proof of genocide, nor is it mentioned anywhere in the show.
@@kaitlynclarke7651
You mean the systematic oppression of off colors and the Cluster plot wasn't evidence enough?
@@almondjoy4938 Actually one of the creators straight up said humans were more or less the first sentient life the Gems encountered. Of course Pink was the only one to stop and notice it, but the general implication is that the Gems wouldn't terraform a planet with sentient lifeforms on it. The other Diamonds only realised when they visited the world personally. Their general conversion of planets inhabited by non-sentient or semi-sentient life isn't really any different from how humans treat nature on our world.
I'm not really a fan of them but the roundtable, specifically AweStruckVox, did a good video on it.
@@kaitlynclarke7651 I know Steven Universe tends to ignore the Cluster until it's convenient to the plot, but may I please direct to the Billion gems shattered and forced into Fusion for the sole purpose of destroying the planet and committing mass planetary genocide.
Shattering, mind you, is essentially the same thing as killing a Gem. Considering how large the Cluster is and the Billion of gem shards needed to create it, how is that Not genocide?
The thing that really irritates me about the show wasn't that is made the Diamonds redeemable. It's that the show just hand waves away all that these murderous fascists have done. And yes they are fascists by definition. Not all fascists are Nazis. The show just seems to want you to forget that these three have wiped out the populations of other planets which to them, was the equivalent of stepping on bugs. Enslaved their own kind and gave them no personal choice and if any them stepped out of line, they were executed as if they didn't matter. They are evil, there's no other way to describe them. They may be complex characters, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still evil. Pink is the only one who showed any amount of empathy towards others. And yet Change of Mind just wants you to forget that so they can rush to the end. The Diamonds aren't actually punished for what they've done, and that really makes it feel contrived to me. The movie may have showed that it's not just a forgive and forget scenario, but after all they've done, I'm siding with Bismuth here. And honestly, the Gem Empire deserves to fall.
Who gonna punish the diamonds? you think they wouldn't just curb stomp steven if he tried. The reason why they are never punished is because they are too powerful to be defeated. And remember the diamond empire has already been dismantled as they said at the start of the movie.
@@swiper1753 He'd find a way. Or the writers would come up with a way if they weren't too busy rushing everything for the end.
@@swiper1753 Hello are we forgetting that Pink Steven exist, and also clap white diamond in a matter of seconds. If you wanted to say that Blue, Yellow, White diamond are so op, then think again about how the smol pink boi did.
@@GeneralKenobi75 you realize innocent gems that were oppressed would simply fall under management from high class gems
you would need to destroy homeworld completely and start from scratch
and ain't no body got time for dat
@@dangerouslydubiousdoubleda9821 Empires fall all the time. And if the majority of the lower class gems rebel, the upper class are basically powerless. They'd have no army or work force to support them if most of the under caste rebelled. It was mainly fear of the Diamonds that kept the other gems in line. Without them they'd start thinking for themselves and going "hey, things are much better when we make our own choices."
The Diamond authority is literally the imperium of man from the tabletop game Warhammer 40k. I made a connection when you said that the diamonds have destroyed other planets, killed their own kind for being defective, and being overall just unfair and very unpleasant to be around in genuinely.
Also I agree with you that the Big Diamonds haven't been redeemed.
The Diamonds are wonderful paragons of kindness and love compared to the Imperium of Man, who will torture and kill you for *reading the wrong book.*
Warhammer 40k Space Marines in a nutshell. For the emperor and Purge the heretics!
.
Toon Ruins:Let's talk about the Diamonds.
NYCC:no
*announces the new trailer*
0:27 Love the Orchid shade
You mean Lily Orchard?
@@nalathelioness338 yeah
I was fine with the idea of Steven reasoning with the Diamonds. My issue comes with the execution. It makes sense that Steven would have some power over them, being all that's left of pink, but it also feels like he's ignoring the sheer magnitude of their crimes, and sweeping it under the rug for the sake of curing the corrupted gems.
People can be forgiven for their wrongdoings, but in order for that to happen they need to atone for their mistakes. Sugar clearly knows, or has an idea of this, because we saw it in Peridot after she mouthed off Yellow and helped stop the cluster. The Diamonds though, as far as we know, have done nothing to atone. No compensations for the lives, homes and relationships they've destroyed, they've just been sucking up to Steven like children-
There iS a possibility for Sugar to investigate this topic in the next season, but my hopes aren't high to be honest. Sugar's also the same person who decided that the best way for Steven to overcome White was by roasting her-
i heard somewhere ( so obvi dont take my word for it xd ) that the episode peridot mouthed off yellow wasnt even written by sugar,, so that kinda explains a lot for me
They should be charged as war criminals. What they did was comparable to genocide and mass murder, the fact that there is no punishment for their actions is not justice.
Not like anyone would actually charge them being the highest authority in space. Or would even want to.
I’d agree with you, but one thing kept bothering me and I think the show needs to address this , although the movie made a good start. Steven kept calling the diamonds family. His thoughts are pretty clear. He just stumbled into this solution, it wasn’t strategic at all. For your interpretation to work there had to have been a conscious decision. Steven was just lucky his nativity didn’t get him killed.
Yeah I agree. Everyone is whining about how the Diamonds haven't redeemed themselves but why should they? They could wipe out Steven and co on a whim but they don't because they just want him to like them. They need a real reason to change where their rigidity threatens their existence somehow, that is why most people change.
Thank you, I completely agree. The Diamonds are not redeemed, more on the road to redemtion. And it's a long road.
I'm optimistic that they will some day actually believe in what Steven is trying to teach them but two years is not enough to reach that yet.
Other than that, great video.
I agree and disagree. They were shown to still be rude and they literally admitted that they see Pink in Steven so that’s why they’re helping him and I’m glad you’re analyzing this more than others have. But I disagree as I feel like the show is treating them as redeemed as they were treated like adorable grandmas in the movie that are loving which is offensive due to the fact that they’re being smothering. This shows that they are shown as being sweet and in my opinion redeemed even though they deserve to be shattered in my opinion.
I see where you're coming from, but to me they didn't really seem sweet. The way they tried to get Steven's sympathy and convince him to stay with them, mostly because they still see Pink Diamond in him, for their own selfish reasons sounded really manipulative if anything.
Idk I think they sounded creepy
@@Humanman480 Sounds like an exaggerated version of the racist grandparents who still want to be part of the family reunions.
because HE IS PINK DUMMY...gems might have a projection but he is still the same gem at the core. you can't revert millenia in a year.
I was thinking more along the lines of them being That Racist Grandma/pa everyone has and is kind of ashamed of but what can you do, they're family. You'll never approve of who they are as people but you can't just kill them.
This isn't that kind of show and even Avatar did the same thing.
Though, admittedly, Zuko was fully on board with the idea of killing his father it was a kid's show so we knew that wasn't going to happen (At least not on screen... Jet) because the lesson is "compromise", not "solve all your problems with violence".
I don’t know. Having the diamonds be portrayed as fascist dictator‘s in the show only to have them act like
clingy aunts in the movie is a pretty big leap.
"Multiple 2-hour-long unfactual diatribes..."
OOOH SHOTS FIRED
"Holy shit, you f*ckin destroyed her, dude!"
Not really. I've seen the video multiple times and everything in it is true. Yea its 2 hours long but it's really well thought out and has fair criticism. I suggest everyone watch it.
@@genieglasslamp5028 We know it's you, Lily. Get lost, you're not fooling anyone.
@@reasyrandom I can confirm I am not Lily, and I've watched her video multiple times, and I agree with a lot of it. I will also admit she is wrong in a lot of areas, but she has a lot of well thought out points that actually are correct. It isn't entirely accurate, but it is a very honest analysis.
@@Hey-Its-Dingo At least some of her fans are actually thinking for themselves.
Above commenter is either her trying to shill herself, a troll or just some kid who can't form it's own opinions.
It's pretty likely the Diamonds aren't genocidal either. In one of the early documents or scripts or whatever it's called it stated that when they first started colonizing Earth the Diamonds were surprised to see life on the planet that looked somewhat like them and was intelligent and they were trying to figure out what to do about them.
Humanity was likely Homeworld's first interaction with intelligent organic life ever. Everything before that was simple animals at most.
Huh, never thought about that. I could totally see now how Pink became a fan of humans if they were the only intelligent species they found.
Now that i think about it, there's no proof that in the show's universe there is any intelligent life besides humans and gems.
This has actually been confirmed. Ian Tweeted out that sapient life is extremely rare, humans are the first they've come across. So they literally have never committed genocide. That's an assumption that's been made from people who want to prove the point of them being Nazi's. Dictators are still bad, but it's important to get our definitions on things correct.
^
My question is, can the Diamonds accept the fact that Steven can “age” and could possibly die? What would they do if they find out about it?
Oooo...that'd be a hard-hitting revelation for them...
Yellow Diamond : ... Cant he just change his age by emotions?
Blue Diamond : And thats why im here!
White Diamond : That sounds very delightful!
Lets do it!
Steven : You guys know im here right?
They will get an *EMOTIONAL DAMAGE*
I wanna clarify that Steven was fed up of everything, not just the Diamonds's actions. Thats the whole thing he was singing about the whole movie. He just wanted his happily ever after back, and was tired of dealing with Gems and stuff. Just look at how he acted around Spinel. Look at his body language. Its not just about the Diamonds.
With others he was like "eh I'll deal with it." but with the diamonds he looked immediately done. He's done with them especially.
When you off offhandedly mentioned Lily's video it made me smile
Idk... Lily orchard beats her own sister and enjoys it.
One thing people aren’t getting: in real life, dictators are *not* very popular. Very often the majority, often enough the *overwhelming* majority, thinks the dictator is incompetent and bad for their people. So when violent means are used, there’s an entire society of revolutionaries, middle managers, and opposition politicians to take up the leadership after.
In Steven Universe? Most gems have not yet awakened to personhood, so the citizenry are fairly oblivious to the diamonds shortcomings and rarely question their divinity. More than that, in the backstory they *had* a violent revolution, and the revolutionaries lost. The overwhelming majority of gems *do* support the diamonds because most of the original Crystal Gems were corrupted or killed during the rebellion. It would take years, or even generations, to awaken enough humanity in the bulk of gem society to create a bottom-up revolution again, and even that could fail since the diamonds have such godlike powers.
So for saving as many people now as possible, a bottom down reform by manipulating the diamonds and leaving them unpunished for the time being is the most effective path.
You're totally right. Realistically, there's no one really questioning the Diamonds or opposing their rule and even the revolution failed to provoke any real change in gem society. So really how the Diamond redemption is being handled works because punishment can't come right away for them. It's unique with the Diamonds. It has to happen slowly and gradually.
A character from Game of Thrones put it best. "It's never too late to stop hurting people, stop killing people, and start helping people."
Considering there's another season and other projects on the horizon, it's likely there's still a lot to wrap up with the Diamonds. I think if there is a new Gem War in season 6, or the start of one (just my theory btw), I can see the Diamonds needing to sacrifice themselves in some way to protect Steven. This is a show where the stakes get set higher and higher as time goes on, and I can't envision many other storylines where the Diamonds could redeem themselves any other way.
Imagine if we got a whole season of 'Beach City episodes' with occasional gem stuff on earth. I'd still watch it. That reminds me: we haven't seen a lot of Steven's Earth. I kinda want to see more.
Although now that the new opening has dropped, the Diamonds do seem to be a little too happy, but who knows, change is one of the biggest themes in this show after all.
uhhhhh eeeeef mmmmm wellllllll
People need to stop looking at this in a binary of good and bad. The Diamonds have changed because of their relationship with Steven. That still isn’t going to completely shift thousands of years of habit.
I get a "mildy racist Grandma" vibe from the diamonds, and it's really noticable with White. The film actually does a pretty good job of showing that the diamonds haven't changed at all, and are only doing this to get Steven to side with them.
More like straight up Klansman grandmas, considering all the shit they did. They don't deserve forgiveness, but Steven forgave them anyway and gave them the chance to be better - that says more about his kindness than them.
Everyone says Change Your Mind is rushed, but I think Blue diamond wasnt in my opinion
The was handled the best of all i like her the most even more than pink/rose
Tbh shes a b***h!
Blue Diamond is the closest one to redemption, she truely feels bad for what she has done.
@@vaati5117 yea
I felt Blue Diamond would have been the first to be redeemed. She didn't seem like a bad gem at all, just misguided and sometimes regretful.
@@angelsartandgaming yea
@@DragoNugget yea
I completely agree with you! As a side note, my kids (8&10 yrs old) watch too and they even understood that the Diamonds weren't redeemed!
*_[Agreed, we DO need to talk about the Diamonds... Yellow Diamond is flawless, Blue Diamond is way too depressed and White Diamond revealed herself to be far too flawed to rule homeworld... LET YELLOW RULE! BRING HOMEWORLD BACK TO ITS OLD WAYS!]_*
Ruby [Doc] NO
@@dreamshade8123 *_[Y E S ! YELLOW DIAMOND 〢❖ FOREVER!]_*
Ruby [Doc] :3
@@dreamshade8123 *_[... yay?]_*
Yes I agree. Blue, Steven and White need to be shattered and locked in the extraction chamber. Their mindless limbed gems shards shall fuel the eternal, PERFECT empire.
The Steven Universe community is bad at criticism and here's why.
Edit: Also that was a great video!
Cant tell of this is a joke or not
*The Steven Universe hatedom.
Seriously, it's just the same arguments over and over.
@@reasyrandom dont all fan bases have the same problem but to each severity
Do you mean the *rest* of the SU community?
Most of us criticize the show because Change your Mind was apparently the end of Steven Universe, and ending it with the redemption of the main villain in the span of 10 minutes clearly felt rushed
This video in a Nutshell: *Let's talk about how, and why, the Diamonds haven't been redeemed! Shall weeeee? :D*
Blue Diamond is probably the most redeemed, because she did admit she was abusive and is clearly trying to better her actions. Otherwise, the diamonds are so eradically written
"Empathetically Manipulating them" is too accurate
That ad placement i just got was perfect
"They view their diamonds as gods, so if something were to happen to them-" *ad for the movie "panic"*
I'm pretty tired of the desire for irredeemable villains, or for Steven to willingly kill people. I get that it can make conflicts predictable, but the message that anyone can change is more important.
Thing is, not everyone can change.
You have to try, you have to put an actual effort in.
And even then, there are some people who are too far gone to change in any meaningful way.
I think it’s a far more important message that you shouldn’t have to put up with bad people doing bad things if you can do something about it (i.e rising up against a fascist oppressor)
That lesson is also important, but I feel it shouldn't undermine the lesson that you should try to help people change before just assuming they can't y'know? Help them change and if they can't, then you'll know.
Sorry bud but not everyone is willing to change or be reasoned with
The problem is the shows naivete
Dubious Consent it’s not a matter of IF someone CAN change. Everyone can. The determining factor is WILLINGNESS.
I'm very confused about why you seem to believe that the only alternative to letting the Diamonds stay in power unpunished and unrepentant is killing them.
You're absolutely right that Steven's super power is empathy, in fact he's the moral center of the show, which is why him being shown to 'tolerate' the Space Hitler Trio is more than a little disturbing.
*We need to sing*
*_[yes we do, I'll start... um... uh... okay, I hope everyone knows the lyrics! 🎶"oh, that's right I heard the story over and over again!"🎵]_*
@@Ruby-Doc *GEE ITS SWELL TO FINALLY MEET HER OTHER FREINDS*
@@JackieWest11 *THAT'S RIGHT I HEARD THE STORY DON'T REALLY LIKE HOW IT ENDS!!*
I have so much respect for you; you're one of the only voices in the fandom that I find myself nodding along in agreement almost all of the time, even if I don't 100% agree with you, you're still generally dead on. Great job!
they dont deserve redemption. the things they've done, every experiment, every murder, every war... no one would redeem any human leader doing this stuff
Everyone (everyone sensible) realizes that they aren’t actually good. The problem isn’t that they “turned good” over night.
The problem is that Steven sees them as family and wants to help them to turn good.
They are mass murderers and tyrannical rulers. And really, if Blue and Yellow were really that unhappy, they could have broken away from White’s control. White can’t control ALL the gems under Blue and Yellow combined. Gems that would die for them in a heartbeat. If Blue and Yellow showed up to White’s ship with a massive army, she would have been overpowered and poofed/shattered eventually.
The problem is that Rebecca Sugar thinks that it is ok to teach people to forgive horrid people as long as your related and as long as you THINK you can get through to them.
If Hitler had three children who were commanders in his army, would their crimes be justified because they were scared of him? Really?
I don't think Rebecca was intentionally trying to make fascists seem alright or anything in that vein. This is definitely a writing flaw, for sure, if you wanted to have a main antagonist be forgiveable and given the chance to redeem themselves, then it's best to not have them be absolutely terrible. But to say that this writing flaw is a sign of a moral flaw of the creator is just.. really a stretch.
Nya McAllister yes. I can see where you are coming from. But the thing is, Rebecca hasn’t stated anything about what lots of people have been saying about the morals of the show. When creators make writing flaws so morally corrupt and don’t say anything to clear the air? It leads people to suspicion.
I just hope the she actually has a plan, and that she does something with White is StevenUniverse Future. Because this honestly cannot go unchecked.
Everytime you watch a critique video about the show, someone mentions how f***d up the diamonds are.
If this goes on for much longer it’s going to leave a huge stain on an otherwise good show.
I really don’t want that.
Honestly I believe them going through the motions of "being good" is a half first step towards them changing for real. Yeah, they started off doing things because it appeases Steven, but once the changes start taking root they might realize the value in change and growth.
In essence, where they're currently in the mindset of "we did good, reward us", they might end up realizing "doing good is its own reward". They need the Peridot treatment.
Bingo. As far as redemption goes, they're still getting their feet wet so to speak. Not enough time has passed for them to understand the value behind changing and growing out of their old ways of thinking. Right now, their current motivations will have to do but there"s still some show left for this all to work itself out.
Why do some of you keep giving the show so much credit. Most people didn't necessarily wanted the diamonds shattered, but we wanted at least more substantial conflict and clash of ideologies between them and Steven, and what we got was nothing of the sort. It was just too fast, it doesnt even feel like they're putting up an act or anything, it just feels like the crewniverse wanted to wrap things up as quickly as possible and i doubt SUF is going to fix that.
No one is saying that the ending wasn't too fast. I'm in agreement with CYM being rushed. That said, no one if giving the show too much credit. It is EXTREMELY clear in what the intent was, even if they didn't reach it in the best way.
I know it's late but, the crewniverse wanted CYM to be a lot longer, the network was forcing them to wrap it up.
I feel like a lot of the problems with the show would have been fixed if there wasn't executive meddling involved. Sugar and the writers clearly didn't get to write the story they wanted to write.
Steven is like an Oracle. Someone who uses emotions and insecurities of others to help them change. Tells them what would happen if they didn't change and how others would see them and affect their relationships.
More like uses his emotions to manipulate a facist regime into not being facists anymore
Evil or not as characters i still love the diamonds and always will.
Same :')
What is there to talk about aside from the fact Blue Diamond is the hottest piece of Rock this show has turbo’d out?
BAHAHAHHAHA FACTS
This actually makes sense. I was talking to a friend last night about how the Diamonds shouldn't have been redeemed. I'll send this to him now.
I didn’t really like the last few episodes of Steven universe and kind of blew everything out of proportion and jumped to conclusions because of that. This video helped me understand more what it was going for, and I’m looking forward to seeing what comes next
2:03 then this begs the question: why do Steven bother continuing to try?
There isn't a better path.
*_[it's the best thing to do]_*
“Fake it until you make it” can work on toxic/sociopathic mindsets. If the diamonds spend enough time in a gradually reforming gem society, and see more nuance from organic beings due to spending time with them, and find that once being tolerant and accepting becomes habitual they’re happier for it, they are much more likely to keep it up on their own and develop internal justifications and philosophies that support it, leading to even better behavior.
Then everything would just go all the way back to square one.
@@fanta6285 But that's not what the show is about. It's idealistic and supposed to being out the positive in people. It's true that people in real life don't always change for the better or can change. But again, that's not what this is about.
The Diamonds can't be changed IMO, Homeworld uses a caste system, so unless something really really forces them to change, they're likely content to stay the way they are
There is no caste system anymore. According to Unleash The Light, the Diamonds don't even have supreme authority anymore.
I m mostly worried about the last episode of season five and white diamond.
She forcibly took control of blue and yallow diamond!
She must've broken some sort of rule while doing that.
Are you telling me there are no consequences for it?
Not even yallow and blue gonna complain?
I guess not.
Spinel didn't trust the diamonds. Look at her face when she was leaving with them. She knew
& yet she still went....
The criticism about the redemption is not about the Diamonds, nobody actually cares about them. It's STEVEN that's the problem. He SHOULDN'T offer forgiveness to genocidal dictators. That should be just common sense. Doesn't matter who they are or how much they lie to your face.
That was a great video, the steven universe the movie made clear to me that diamonds especially white diamond didn’t redeem themselves, which I thought was great because the ending of Change your mind broke my suspension of disbelief
They only value Steven's diamond-ness /because/ pink died. They didn't take pink seriously because they didn't think there was consequence or depth to how they'd affect her. In a sense, Pink was right to shatter herself to get their attention, and then later was right in thinking a human-diamond hybrid would tug on their weaknesses.
I've been waiting for your videos!
I don't have the time to write out a full reply atm but I have a few Thoughts I wanna get out now:
I agree that I wouldn't call the Diamonds redeemed but I disagree that the show makes it clear what they've done isn't okay. They handwave A LOT of shit. They never bring up the human zoo again, or the horrific forced fusions for instance. In the season 5 finale there was this whole fight with Blue and Yellow where Blue claimed they were both suffering inside, and then Yellow starts crying. That was clearly a move to make the audience feel bad for them. Because they're just so sad that they're evil tyrants :( it really hurt THEM to hurt all those gems and destroy other planets by their own choice :(( The movie felt like a retcon where Sugar realised what she'd done and quickly rewrote them.
Also, who says it's kill the diamonds or bust? In Avatar they were able to neutralise the Fire Lord, stop the war and make real social change without killing him. Couldn't something like that be figured out? Even if killing the Diamonds ended up being the only way out and would cause the world to fall into chaos... the people in charge of SU wrote this world. THEY wrote it so that gems went revenge-hungry when Pink was supposedly killed. If they'd written it a little better, maybe they wouldn't have had to make the solution be "the power of nepotism will stop fascists".
It's not the redemption or the kill that people want and have a problem with it's how white was redeemed in an episode when it could of at least been a well developed take on all of the diamonds redemptions into tolerance. We already know they aren't actually redeemed our problem was how quickly and rushed the last episodes of season five wrote off the checklist. You had every Crystal gem fusion there only to say "there we did it" and then also white diamond as a finish. Sounds great on paper but the execution fell flat to a lot of people. This was hyped up for the entire show and it was only the last bit of an episode.
I don’t mind that they’re not fully redeemed yet. It’s like they’re kids growing up, learning how to be good people. It’s hard to change immediately, and I think them struggling with their old ways makes sense and is okay natural.
There are theories that they’re just pretending, but I like to imagine they’re only going to improve, and maybe with the help of Steven in the new series.
I think white is gonna be the antagonist of Steven universe future. Lily orchard talked about this but you shit on her. White is gonna go back to her old ways as soon as Steven isnt paying attention. Her in the trailer isn't a fusion. It's her "blushing" you know how she turns pink in the movie. That but so much worse. I think the slight orange hue is her showing her yellow side. Her anger ans frustration, just like yellow
I love Blue Diamond the most 💙 she’s my fav
same :3
She's one of my favorites too. Great design, BEAUTIFUL voice, delightfully written...
* When your strolling down the comments and see this *
Judging anything based on appearance is wrong
💎
👁 👄 👁
THANK YOU. Finally someone gets it
I can only hope that by pretending to be good they connect with enough other people to genuinely grow
Basically space rock The Good Place.
caeful with the tone id say it almost felt like u atttacked your wieweres there
I could see signs of White relasping especially with the way she treated the other two Diamonds. Maybe Blue and Yellow will run away to Earth creaing all sorts of hijinks.
I can see them following in Pink's footsteps a bit and create aliases for themselves and hide away on Earth.
I'd love to seem some hijinks
Got an ad about diamond jewelry just as you were talking about the possible effects of them being shattered, lol, nice
Finally someone that knows what they're talking about and why! I love your content because you think through what you want to say rationally and you push it to the end and everything makes perfect sense
Blue is the only diamond I like she’s just a giant marshmallow
Frankly, I find the message disturbing. "Forgive everyone, no matter how evil or destructive they may be."
The diamonds weren’t redeemed and this was proven in “future (season 6)” when Steven has conflicting dreams and thoughts about the diamonds…