Is Food Chain Problematic In EDH?
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- As a recent Wise Mothman player, I have some limited experience with Food Chain in EDH/Commnder that has led me to ask the question: Is Food Chain problematic in EDH?
#mtg #magicthegathering #cedh #edh #reaction
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I've had more problems with Dockside Extortionist than Food Chain for comboing off in recent years
I mean food chain outside of the Commander being the exile Outlet runs intp issues with standard counterspells
This is a 10 minute rant about literally nothing, food chain is a 2 card combo yes but the mana is specifically for creatures so unless your looping your commander and unless it has a effect then it just does nothing but give you infinite creature mana
I'm curious to know what prompted the conversation around Food Chain, given that it's been off people's radar for quite a while now.
As far as my own thoughts [n how problematic it is...well, given how efficient the Grixis shard of the color pie has become in recent times - especially with Breech, Thoracle, and Dockside combos - I feel like Food Chain is one of the few things that allow Green-inclusive decks to keep up.
I mean without that, Green decks struggle to come up with win conditions that can match the efficiency and compact size of wincons found in Black, Blue, and/or Red decks.
If nothing else, Food Chain needing a third piece to actually close a game out - whether it is Impact Tremors-style effects, an X-Spell, or other powerful ETB effects - keeps the card more balanced then the two-card combos that seem to have come to define so much of the format.
You stay away from my Prossh combo piece
Honestly food chain is easier to counter, easier to interact with (bounce spells) than dockside or underworldbreach storm
The real problem is that as Commander grows in popularity, more people are playing it to win. Those who play to win play cards like Food Chain.
All Commander turns into cEDH eventually. I embrace it.
I'm a fan of food chain for titania, protector of argoth. You don't need scourge at all and you do ultimately need a 4th (tbh more like 2nd) piece to actually win.
The way it works is as follows: with Titania, Command Beacon and Food chain on the battlefield, activate command beacon's sac effect. This puts a trigger from titania on the stack and you'll make a 5/3 token. Then, holding priority, exile titania to food chain, returning her to the command zone. Let command beacon's ability resolve and return titania from command zone to hand. From there, she can be recast with the food chain mana and her etb returns command beacon to the battlefield, setting you back to the initial board state, with +1 mana and +1 5/3.
I'd consider it a 1 card combo that needs a payoff because titania lives in the command zone and command beacon is already the #1 tutor target for the deck. You basically just need food chain and a payoff
How does Titania see the land go before she hits the field？I don't believe you get a 5/3.
If you want to look at problem enchantments in EDH start with smothering tithe, mystic remora, rhystic study, and necropotence.
How are those problematic?
Necro might be, but it not even to be broken
@@Uefeti Smothering tithe and rhystic study are absolutely problematic enchantments. All it takes is 1 or 2 people to not pay the tax and the player who controls them run away with the game. If they come down on turn 1 or 2 they can almost guarantee the game is ending by turn 4 or 5 unless someone has a mass artifact board wipe or a narset down to limit the drawing.
food chain wins games
I have recently been playing with my Wise Mothman deck quite a bit and I do have to say food chain is one of the most powerful combos in the deck. It has definitely caused some frustration among tables I've played at so I definitely understand what you're getting at here. Enchantments in magic are in general a pain to get rid of, and eternal scourge just exiles itself as soon as someone targets it, so the combo can sometimes be difficult for opponents to interact with or prevent which is partially why I think it can be so frustrating.
7:01 honestly korvold is better than prossh just for the simple fact that it's a built in draw engine as well so basically it just requires that you have the food chain squee and korvold i say squee because squee can be cast from graveyard or exile so after you make your mana with squee you cast korvold sac the squee draw a card put a counter on korvold exile korvold off food chain recast squee and korvold and repeat until you find the walking ballista or other creature based win con
No mention of Cazur//Ukkima?
Proosh is good with food chain. However, the draw trigger on Korvold with Squee is the ideal food chain commander.
you could make any infinite combos with mana or a storm combo since you can cast some creatures from exile
I have a Ghalta primal hunger deck that primarily wins with food chain. Generally it actually wins by attacking with a ton of really big/ each one will just kill you. The payoff should be pretty obvious but generally +1/+1 counters, mana, and drawing cards wins games and if you can do that an unlimited number of times you will probably win those games.
I'll just add that I don't have any other creature in the deck that directly go off with food chain, but if you have omnath locust of mana you can go truly infinite.
So I have a prosh deck, my favorite payoff is flame king herald to cast basically everything in my deck :)
My Master, Transcended deck had food chain and the deck devolved into just find food chain and cast my commander 300 times. It was way too strong for my casual games, but fun in cEDH.
the real question is, where does edh end and cedh start
Every time when i think of Food Chain I think of The First Sliver because if you have infinite mana with food chain and eternal scourge you could just cascade through your deck and win with thassa's oracle that you could cascade into.
2 card infinite combos that win with the commander are numerous. Food Chain is far from the most broken one.
its a 3 mana green enchantment. that needs other permanents on the board. This is nothing compared to Demonic Consultation, 1 mana instant win the game
Damn, he really forgot about my boy Squee
Yes. I run this card in Temur eldrazis and it's stupid. My play group was like oh it's not that busted when I told them I put it in and they have since asked me to take it out
I don’t think so, rule zero is a thing so if you don’t like infinites just ask if they can take it out of their deck
If it's a food chain deck, taking out food chain makes it is pile of garbage.
@@alexscott8799 I disagree. I have it in Korvold, and it's incredibly strong there with Squee, but even if I cut it, Squee is at worst a medium creature in Korvold as is, and the only other thing Food Chain asks of you in that deck is to be playing a decent number of creatures, which Korvold already wants to do.
Exactly, formats exist and are created for a reason.
Play styles can co-exist.
I ain’t doing all that. If someone is persistent on no infinites, I just won’t play the combo. If or it’s a loop I can stop, I’ll just do it 1-3 times and stop.
Funny you bring this up since there’s a new white MH3 creature that can be cast from exile under certain conditions.
What creature is that?
The best food chain commander is actually atraxa
Idk this seems, fine? Like it’s a two card combo and I hate to break this to you but I think of a couple of those in the edh format. Sure particular decks might be able to make better use of food chain with more consistent tutors of the pieces etc but games should end at some point and food chain is just as good as any other two card combo.
Food Chain is a good card. Not broken it really needs to be built around to be abused and even then it's not the strongest or most problematic thing in EDH.
Always put at least 10+ tutors and it should do the job
It seems like kinda a lot in a low interaction meta, but otherwise... seems fine?
Seems like a pretty mid combo if all it does is make infinite mana that can only be spent on creatures, and requires a completely useless creature outside of the combo.
Your explanation with Pross is kinda missing the key point that it REPLACES Squee or Eternal Scourge for the combo. For the combo, you need Food Chain + Creature that goes infinite + Payout. In Prossh you put payouts in your deck, but with Atraxa or First Sliver, you put Squee and Scourge in your deck and use the Commander as the payout.
From your explanation one might think Prossh deck needs Scourge or Squee when those cards are actively useless in the deck since Prossh already does that.
I missed the fact that exiling a token makes 0+1 = 1 colorless when I evaluated the card. Absolutely insane
@@laytonjr6601 yup, it used to be a really great deck in cEDH, until passage of time left it behind
EDH is full of 2 card infinite mana combos, even C + A combos
If food chain would be banned you'd have to ban so many other cards for similar purposes (like basalt monolith, dockside extortionist etc.)
For casual play I think you can rule zero and talk about the decks
Just, please, try not to take to long on your turn if you have no idea on how to win the game
I agree with you that Food Chain isn't bannable, and that it's honestly not even the most broken thing you can be doing to win a game, but I also think it's better than your average A+B infinite mana combo. Usually A+B or ABC+ combos consist of pieces that are fairly weak to even useless by themselves, but Food Chain (and even the B in certain decks) can be used to develop your game plan and lead to wins where you don't even use the A+B to begin with.
Problem in edh? I dont think so.
Really good combo card in commander? Absolutely.
Its actually one of the more limited easy-infinite-enabler. Only being able to CAST creatures with it makes it require much more specific pieces then other infinite mana combos. Commander format gets by this downside with certain commanders just getting cast over and over again, but now it's a synergistic combo with the commander.
Food chain wins games!
I played FC without infinites just fine
I have something for you called instant disenchant😅
Nw I know what to do with prosh :)
Food Chain wins games!
Food chain is easy to interact with and can be spoiled at any speed, and costs 6+. Thoracle costs half as much and can only be stopped at instant speed. The hate stick should be pointed at that! The good news is Mothman can run both ;]
Someone didn't watch the video 😂
This is kinda rude, I'll explain:
T1: sol land
T2: forest, cast the 3 cost eldrazi
T3: food chain
You now have infinite mana on turn three.
And EVERYTHING loses to interaction, but that's what force and flare and pact are for. Plus, you can't even stop it by removing the eldrazi if the chain hits, because you can activate food chain in response.
You just described a combo in 3 turns? Bruh.
Thoracle wins turn 1.
Leaving ONLY space for instant speed intreactions.
While in your example 3 opponents have 2 turns to interact on both instant and sorcery speed
@howtonotplayminecraft950 oh, I watched it, but while I was driving home from work, so maybe I missed a little detail or something. Most combos can win T1 with a god hand, but that's not realistic. I don't have high budget rocks, so no cedh, so i consider games beyond T1.
@Uefeti I'm remarking on how easy food chain combo is to stop. I know the author said he didn't want it to be banned, but if I were making a video to rag on a combo, I'd rant about thoracle.
Prossh!!!
Food chain isnt a cedh staple. Its one of the worst viable win conditions in the format.
Eh. It wins a lot, maybe not the top cedh, but it's definitely up there.
I dunno about “a lot”
But it’s still much worse than other wincon options
Food chain is extremely mid right now, so the answer is clearly no 😂
No, it's not problematic.
There's worse stuff out there.
The card isn’t the problem….
Food Chain would be really cool without infinites and tutors honestly. Its a cool and fun card to play with but it's just way too easy like you've said.
Well, thats kinda like saying "Kiki-Jiki would be really cool without infinites and tutors honestly" but eh; If it exists its used for combo.
Hey bit late to be complaining about food chain 😂😂 #food chain wins games
Wow, dude found out about 15 yrs old card and how broken IT is. Like 50 other cards from back there, still we got better things to do. Stay in modern my dude if u r scared
Meow
No mention of Cazur//Ukkima?