3D Printer Reliability: Prusa vs. Bambulab
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
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I'm expanding my 3D print farm which currently has 36 Prusa mk3S+ printers. I plan on adding about 9 more but want to know if the Prusa i3mk3S+ is still the best print farm production machine. It's been the gold standard for many years but are there new and better options? I'll be testing the Prusa mk4 and the Bambulabs P1P to see if they can outperform my current fleet. I was pretty shocked by the results!
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00:00 Introduction
00:24 Current Print Farm
01:06 What Makes a good Farm 3D Printer?
01:53 Test Overview/Comparison
06:11 Test Results
10:45 Final Decision
11:21 Setting up New Print Farm Rack
12:40 Closing Thoughts - Jak na to + styl
I came to that same conclussion. For 5 years I have been running a print farm of over 40 Creality printers; mainly Ender 3 with a few CR-10S. I spent more time on maintenance and repair with them than I wanted to -- at any point, about 10-15% of the farm was down. In January 2023 I started swapping them out for the Bambu Lab P1P. By March the entire Creality part of my farm was removed and replaced with 15 P1Ps which all now have over well 5,000 hours on them. The only thing I have had to replace across all the printers so far has been a nozzle that clogged and a hotend cooling fan. Everything else is stock, something I was not able to do with a Creality farm. It has only been 10 months, but so far they seem to last without issue. We have 5 more coming into the farm this week because they are just beasts at pumping out consistent parts.
i got myself a p1s and it has been a beast, I went thrugh 12 kG of fillament already printing jukebox parts for clients. Feel blessed by the quality
What did you do with the previous printers ?
How does P1Ps perfrom on TPU/TPE prints? I really need this information. Reading Reddit or so, 90% of the users prints PLA or PETG.
@@PajungesIt does really well, but if you have one of the models with an AMS, you can't use it since the TPU will get stuck. No problems just running it from the external spool-holder though, and it prints like a dream.
@@Fredpettersen Currently i have 3pcs of Creality Ender 3 S1 PLUS models. I print only TPU. Each printer has 4000 working hours. No major issues at all. It just lacks of Ethernet connetivity and I got quite bored about these printers. Can P1S print TPU at 65mm/s? My Ender 3 s1 can do that quite easily.
A 6 month follow up video and a 1 year follow up video would be very interesting to see. If the Bambu printers can hold up in duration like the Prusas can then the choice was obvious. Somebody is always building a better mouse trap (in this case 3D printers) so at some point Prusa will lose the crown as will Bambu someday. It is inevitable.
You do have to note that many of the parts available for the bambu printers are more affordable than parts directly from Prusa.
As well if youre in USA or Canada, you don't have to ship everything over from Europe... Bambu has warehouses in USA and Canada... no border crossing needed.
Well they better be since their parts are made in china and cheap construction. I don't expect EU or prusa prices for something made in a sweat shop in china.
@@LilApeHere he is, now go through all comments here and release your anger to feel better about yourself. 🤣 I forgot that prusa parts are all manufactured in Europe 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@LilApe I'm fairly certain the only parts made in EU are the printed parts if that, they're simply put together in EU. Boards and steppers are all from China lol.
@@PLr1c3r Their buddy board and components are made in house in CZ, Their hotend is made by E3D in the UK. The MK3 is built with only 33% of parts made in china. The MK4 is even less. Educate yourself.
Further more:
The hotend/part cooling fans and PSU are made in USA by delta.
The belts are made by gates in the USA.
The extruder is made in house in CZ.
The rails/bearings are made By either THK or misumi. Made in taiwan/japan/vietnam.
I'm stopping there, but there are far more components that are *NOT* made in china.
As much as I love my old MK3S+, it's been collecting dust since I received my P1S. I don't want to tinker with a 3D printer, I want a utility I can use to reliably fabricate things for myself. I get some people really love the tool, but I care about what the tool is actually capable of doing. The P1S spitting out prints 3-4x faster than the MK3S+ (and doing so in a nearly fire-and-forget manner) is such a game changer for the industry.
This is the comment I was searching for here. Thank you. You have helped me figure out the right decision to make
This is the comment I was searching for here. Thank you. You have helped me figure out the right decision to make
Well, this is exactly my point too. There are builders who focus on the printers and like to spend time tinkering with them. My focus is getting a part that I created out of a printer without "wasting" a lot of time with the "step in between". Originally I was in the pre-order-process for a Prusa XL, but since they did not get ready for a long time and my first printer started to have more and more issues, I cancelled my deposit and went for a X1C.
My experience feels much the same. All my bedslingers have been basically retired ever since I got my P1P. This thing will spit out parts in serial order faster than all my bed slingers will in parallel! It just sits in this perfect, harmoneous sweet spot of price point + speed + quality that, almost a year later, still just boggles my mind. I'm sitting here listening to it go as we speak, and I'm thinking "how are you THIS fast and print THIS consistently well??" And with so little effort on my part, beyond the monthly cleaning and lubricating. I cannot understate how much it has impacted my ability to quickly iterate on prototype part designs. the difference between printing something in 6 hours as opposed to 20 is HUGE.
I agree: my Prusa is sitting gathering dust, waiting for me to replace the extruder gears. My P1P worked right away for 800 hours AND COUNTING. No adhesion issues. Few feeding issues, even with the AMS. Always works on the network.
This series has been super useful. Really appreciate the clean numbers and objective analysis! I am looking forward to seeing an update in a month or two covering the output and reliability changes on the MK4 with input shaping and new firmware, as well as long term reliability info on the bamboo machine.
It's really great to get the perspective from someone who understands what is most important for high volume printing!
I'd love to see an updated comparison with the Mk4s updated with input shaping.
Agreed. MK4 such a different animal compared to first release
yup
No mater how good a Prusa Mk4 is, there are things it still can't do.
1) Spaghetti auto detection
2) Near seamless Multilateral feed
For reference, I've run a MK3s for 4+ years. And have two additional units at the office including 2 Prusa Mini, and one of the MK3 is* tied to a Pallet Multilateral system.
A real pain to dial in, temperamental at best.
Now we also have the P1P Carbon, with one AMS. Absolutely seamless multilateral printing. So much so, I bought one for myself.
@@BallBallBallie
It's still a bed slinger though. It just has some inherent limitations. And a few days ago Bambulab released their own bed slinger (the A1) and it shits all over the MK4 in regards to speed, and is about 1/3rd the price..
Does not matter. The Mk4 can't beat a BBL. It can't even beat a BBL A1. :D
several thousand hours into my p1p and the only thing i've had to replace so far is the extruder gear. started having some extrusion issues, and after taking it apart, i could see that the drive gear was worn and starting to catch on some of the plastic housing, therefore not moving smoothly.
but one $20 part for several thousand hours seems pretty solid to me. 😁 (*knock on wood*)
@@SB-mj2gi The hardened steel gears were what i had in there. I replaced them with the original stainless steel, because that's all i had available at the time, to get back up and running. Will go back to another set of hardened gears at some point.
Some of my P1Ps have been running for 8 Months every single day in a production environment and so far I didn't have any problems with parts breaking except the usual nozzle change and belt tensioning. It's a great machine
Yeah I have had the same experience , two of my original P1P have been running over a year now .
Good to hear. I'm retiring my two bedslingers and have just pulled the trigger on a P1S combo.
@@Valisk You won't regret it. And I'll go ahead and warn you: It likely won't matter how many videos you've seen of these things running. Seeing the speed first hand in person is just... it's different. It will blow you away. Expletives will be uttered. :P
Installed your dust kit for my 12” Bosch. MIND BLOWN!! Excellent design and manufacturing! Best mod for miter saw period! Thanks for your hours of design and testing and making this available for us home diy’rs. Job well done🤜🏼🤛🏼
I'm not quite a year into this hobby and bought a P1S a little over a week ago to go along with my 2 Enders that I've upgraded a bunch of crap on. I've been blown away by how fast and nice the P1S prints without me having to do anything. It's just crushing out prints at great quality over and over with no intervention from me. I get I'll probably have to replace parts at some point, but that's to be expected. That said, I also value the time I've had with the Enders. Running them for all this time and working through things has helped me understand the 3D print process and has made me a much better troubleshooter when it comes to printer or slicer issues/failures. I'm not sure how well that will work for people with a printer that prints flawless (out of the box anyway), until it doesn't.
I own a P1S and yes, parts will need replacing just like any other printer. In the 6 months I've had mine I've had to replace the nozzle wiper (a 5 minute job) but nothing else yet. And like the video mentioned, the carbon rods are a part I'm not used to seeing but I wipe them down wipe Isopropyl alcohol one a month and everything seems fine. No printer will ever be perfect and maintenance free. But so far this printer has surpassed my expectations. After owning cheaper printers in the past, let's just say, I have no regrets buying it. 👍😏
You're my new favorite channel hands down! You blend business, print experience and no BS talk about the product and not afraid to take chances! I've currently just sold my last 3D printer today (Ender 5 plus heavily upgraded). The quality I've seen just from the A1 Mini had me buying the full combo pack right away and I'm just waiting on delivery now. I work full time from home as an RPA developer for my municipality, so when i have a robot going through tests and i can't use my work laptop, I have time designing products. I will be trying to get my foot in the door of factories around me to start out with, making custom tools that could make their life and work processes better as this is what i already do just with software robots. Because I love problem solving, and the 3D design process, and having a machine that just runs to spit out parts is important, instead of alway have a printer that only runs with 90% capacity because of some random issue, The ender was my 3'rd printer and I always got stuck at the 95% mark, and never really got it fully tuned. so now I'm going with a platform where the majority of tuning is done by people who does nothing but making and tuning printers.
I really hope that i can at some point quit my current job and live off the income from my design and production work. This channel has inspired my so much that I've been binge watching you videos! It gave me the kick i needed! So thank you!
Same here! :D
Thanks for bringing us along your testing, much appreciated! Exiting to see some more results further up ahead mate
You should also do a part strength comparison. Higher speeds means less time for the plastic to weld to the layer below and the path to the side. That may be fine in a lot of cases, but you should check to make sure the faster speeds don't cause an unacceptable reduction in part strength.
It would be interesting to know the speeds he printed at. Over 1000 hours even a 25mm/s speed increase will add up quite a bit and still be very strong
Depends if the customer even cares about that. 😆
I've been wondering about that as well. I print my parts in petg and have failed to print faster on my old printer. It wasn't because the hotend couldn't keep up. It wasn't because the head couldn't move fast enough. I had to increase the temp to a point that stringing and blobs became uncontrollable. And if I didn't increase the temp, the infill became matte. The outter surface looked fine but that's just because I print the outter surface slower to maximize the appearance. Is the bambu lab able to print quickly without sacrficing strength and upping the temp? There are so many shallow analysis on the web that it's hard to tell. People crank out a widget with their bambu and say it's good without evening mentioning strength.
@@Jaze2022 I print plenty of perfect PETG parts on the X1 Carbon using the default profile with just the flow rate dialed in a tad. Very basic profile - parts generally come out with virtually no blobs and very very little stringing.
The only filament type that the default profiles haven't been nearly perfect for was TPU - I had to change the retraction settings a tad but now I can print a TPU Benchy that looks like PLA..
I print PETG outer wall at 225, top at 200 and the rest is 300mm/s.
I appreciate your candor and scrutiny. Its always refreshing to see someone being as objective as possible. After watching two of your videos it has led me to buy a Bambu Lab P1P myself. It will be my first printer and I am now confident that it will make for a better 1st experience.
Excellent video! Wish I had the need for a farm. I think using multiple machines to produce items/parts is totally impressive! Good luck!
I find these 3D printing videos among the most informative and helpful out of the crowd I've seen here on CZcams. I'd be curious to see a video on other stages of your production such as post processing.
Yep. Did the same thing January 2023. Was sick of my Ender 3 farm. Was slowly transitioning to Prusa when I discovered the Bambu. Took a gamble and bought 12 of them. So far they've been running almost non stop for over a year now with no issues. Just the occasional nozzle replacement.
Amazing what you've done here. You've come a long way in a short time, man! Congrats on your growth.
Hey man. I commented on one of your videos a few months ago and was inspired to start a farm. I'm on 4 printers now in 3 months. I've got two p1s and two new a1 combos.
Overall,
Machines paid for themselves before its first nozzle change. Your contents great. Inspirational tbh. I'll own 10 new machines by the end of the year and they'll all be A1 most likely.
The thing I like (and a way I got around the short staffed customer service problem) is that I was able to buy enough spare parts from bambu to almost build another machine for under $200. I keep parts stocked and if anything breaks I can swap it and have all the time in the world for the warranty part to come in and replenish my spares. So far I've put about 1,000 hours on it of nearly constant high temp ASA and carbon fiber nylon with zero problems.
The video I needed last week. Thankfully I went with the P1P as well. Wonderful series, subscribed!
You definitely are helping my decision to move with Bambu, I bought the best I could or was willing to afford was Creality 2 years ago. Now, I am looking to sell my printed designs I want something that is a workhorse. My stuff is only a couple mm thick, mostly) so first layer means the world. Filling the bed with print reliability would be a game changer.. Thanks for doing the talk about money, It is helping my wife and I decide if we will move forward.
Thanks! Great video. Had the right information for my circumstances. I'm a mechanical engineer using 3D printing for prototyping and build jigs. Occasionally we need to produce a lot of one part for assembly jigs in our production area. I have been considering Prusa Mk4's and Voron 2.4's to add into our line up. This is the first time I've seen a video that includes the Bambulab P1P in a context that is close to what we need. I will check back for updates.
Great share! I also took a gamble starting with 5 P1S printers, but if I have more need for industrial prints I will get more P1P’s. Thank you so much for sharing your journey!!
We went from a print farm of ender 3’s which in the end cost more than a Prussia i3 mk3 to keep running to the BambuLab p1s’s. our output has doubled. Close to 2500 hours and only maintenance so far is replacing the stainless nozzles to the hardened ones. Our failure rate is 3.3% total. So your 4% number is pretty much spot on. We have dropped the rate since purchasing 2 build sheets per printer and wash them in a dish washer between prints.
Great Video.
Im starting a 3D printing farm right now, and this YT Channel is so helpful!
The Bambu A1 would make for another interesting comparison. Perhaps not as fast as the corexy, but probably still faster and less scrap than the Prusa. I was surprised at the Prusa's scrap rates, considering how Prusa themselves probably have the best print farm data anywhere, with 600 or so MK3's and MK4's in their own farm, which keeps them well informed on what kinds of things go wrong over the lifespans of many machines.
Good luck and hope it works out. I think I would have made the same call in your case. While they are a more closed system they seem to have good parts availability and pricing. I also really like the approach they took to enter the market and the directions they have taken at most steps so far. They seem to have an understanding of the markets they are trying to serve. CS issues suck but those can be resolved. I've personally had good luck but am just a home user and haven't needed much from their support to date. The parts are pretty clear so far, so let's hope they keep up on that front! I'm certainly happy with the results they give. I also tend to run them a bit slower than their standard 100% speed, that made the world of difference for a lot of my needs (strength and consistency).
I've only seen 3 Videos so far, but content and quality speaks for itself. You're doing a great job! As I myself own a P1S since 2 months after having my Klipperised Ender 3 Pro collecting dust due to constant issues, I'm more than happy with my purchase do far. I never really thought of buying a Prusa as the costs are just unproportional to what you get IMHO. Though I'm still very curious about this test as I know very well how reliable these Prusa printers must be, but the long-term outcome will tell. Therefore you gained my subscription :D
Insanely well presented video! Thank you! We run Bambu p1s in our farm since we use materials very sensitive to temp changes. They have been extremely reliable.
What material is that?
Excellent video! Thank you for sharing the knowledge.
Your videos are so informative. While I don't currently have a farm, there may be a day when I do need to invest in one and this information is helpful. Can't wait for a future update to see what happened after a longer period of time. I also LOVE the way you ended your video!
Please keep us updated, this was a good start at reliability testing.
I was part of the Kickstarter for the X1-C combo 18 month ago. It was a monster machine back then and it still is today. Its way more machine than I need, but its perfect to print my diy projects. I doubt I have 50 hours on the machine. Still runs like a top as it should.
Thank you for this scientific approach using specific data to compare the three machines. I appreciate the logical presentation as well as your conversational approach!
Just so you know you can change the carbon rods out. They sell the entire assembly for 90$ and with the P1P it should be easy to do since it's already open.
I've been printing on my 3 x1c's for 12 months straight now and they probably average around 16-18 hours a day. Any issues i've had have been my fault, bambu has sent me replacement parts every single time and their replacement parts i've purchased (only nozzles essentially) have been priced appropriately in my opinion. My experience with the machine, longevity of it AND their customer service have been top notch. I'm buying more as we speak.
How does X1C perfrom on TPU/TPE prints? I really need this information. Reading Reddit or so, 90% of the users prints PLA or PETG.
@@Pajunges they do really well with TPU. They also now sell high speed print TPU filaments. It’s awesome.
Very informative video, thanks a lot! I've been using few X1C for past an year now, printing pretty much non-stop and so far I only replaced the Extruder Gear ($20), because the bearing waars out. Expect the usual lubrication and cleaning matiance once in 3 months. I have to say that I am really happy with the machines, especially because they save me A TON of time and hastle. I hope they prove to be a good investment in the long term for all of us! Cheers!
Novice PIP owner here. This convinced me to get the hardened 0.6mm print head as my next upgrade. Interesting that you didn't go with the P1P enclosure or the X1 model. That was my thought too since PLA seems to do everything I need. I did have an issue Bambu resolved very well. I shipped my printer without all the protection in place and the print head fan got ruined. I didn't know at the time what the problem was (just ugly prints) and opened a ticket with them. After a few days they shipped me a new fan and cover at no charge. They DO however request copious documentation (printer log, Bambu Studio log, photos, etc) but they came through.
This is incredible! Well done brother! Thank you for sharing.
Super valuable video. Thank you!
I've had my P1P for several months now and have around 1500 hours of print time on it. So far zero issues.
I Will Definitely be watching for the Longevity of use. Currently have 2 P1P's. One is 6 months old and the other just 3. They are run daily for about 20 hours a day on average still haven't had any issues other then replacing the nozzles and gears to hardened steel about a month ago. Technically that was OPTIONAL but counts towards cost of use since it wasn't an original investment at time of purchasing them. No wear on the rods very slight wear on the oldest ones belts but nothing major. Hope yours runs just as good.
Your videos are always nice, humble, data based and honest.
Big thanks for this - I like your take. My farm is based on Neptune 4's and after 6 months the reliability data is similar to your MK4. 1 mechanical fail per 20kg of filament (always hotend) and bed adhesion issues between product batches (partly mitigated by aftermarket PEI plates). All production done at 250mm/s, so far so good on quality.
I ran into the load cell issue you described in your video. This was fixed by feeding the filament through a "reverse bowden" all the way to the print head. I use a 3mm ID, 4mm OD PTFE tube, installed an M5 quick release fitting into the print head, and have the filament feed up to the roof of the enclosure, through an external filament sensor, and then back down to the print head. This eliminates the variable tension that the load cell would otherwise see trying to unspool filament while doing the bed levelling. Prusa should really have shipped the Mk4 with the festo fitting that they ship on the XL.
The reason for using an external filament sensor is that I had an early failure on a prebuilt Mk4 - the ball can get stuck on the plastic housing. Also - filament spools are often wound with a kink on the end of the filament to retain it in the spool - by the time the filament sensor on the print head trips, this kink in the filament can stop the printer from ejecting the filament during the filament change. By using an external filament sensor and running an octoprint plugin, I burn about 500mm of filament, but it is dead nuts reliable when it comes to changing the filament when the printer runs out.
Also - as you've mentioned - input shaping makes the XL and Mk4 a completely different printer. It did take me a little bit to get input shaping dialed in (a printer in head banging mode puts a LOT of stress on the filament feed tube). But once it's dialed in - I am sure you will see that the Mk4's output is a lot closer to that of the Bambu. I routinely see a 30+% decrease in print time on my machines now that I am running input shaping.
The fact that you didn't just go with more Prusa printers shows you really are unbiased. Respect.
I have 47 Bambu P1S in my print farm and loving them
Dude! Nice! 👍🏼
Best value printer at the moment
why the p1s instead of the p1p ?
@@No-ub5ju because I needed enclosed printers for ABS, ASA, Nylon etc
@@grifftechHow well do you find the P1S handles ABS? I am looking at buying either P1s or a Qidi X plus 3 that comes with the heated chamber. Any experience with the Qidi?
Glad to hear that’s the one you purchased. lol. I just purchased the Bambu P1S with AMS. We have done like 3 prints today. It was a gift for my son and me. We are sharing it. LOL. So far… it’s me learning all the stuff and him just saying… I want to make this. LOL. He is 15. So far I am loving it. But there is so much to learn. We haven’t done a multicolor print yet. Right now we have a 17 hour print running that uses supports. Hoping that I set everything up right and there is no failure. Thank you for the recommendation.
exactly what i looking for. Big thanks for this videos!
Man you were not joking how reliable BL printers are...just got my P1s, been printing non stop for 2 weeks and have yet to experience a SINGLE failer...it's mindblowing for someone who used an ender 3 which needed fixing and tinkering literally every other print. It honestly feels so weird not having to do some much work, basically just click print, check first layer, and forget. Even crazier when you consider its stock speed is like 5x faster then the max speed an ender could put out; it's just crazy how much Bambu Labs shook the whole market up with their printers, nothing comes close to the X or P series right now, not even Prusa.
Wow great video. I am just researching 3D printers just to get started and this was extremely helpful. I really am leaning towards the Prusa but now I need to re think it maybe. Great content
Very cool, thank you for the insights! What software do you use to handle now two different brands of printers? Or do you do it manually?
I was nervous watching this as I bought a P1P based on the last video 😆 Thanks for the informative content!
A little late to the party here, but this has been the number one topic at our small print farm. What printers to add with concerns over maintenance and downtime etc. I cannot thank you enough for sharing and it will be interesting to see how things go over time.🤠
Maybe the overall life of the P1Ps is shorter but in that time they may produce much more and more efficiently than the Prusas. I hope you consider that as part of future analysis. I loved this one, although I was expecting this kind of result. I have a Carbon-X1 and although I don't print in a production environment I was really concerned of wear due to vibration and speed. Still the machine is a monster. After one year of mild use I did the first maintenance and was expecting to see some wear in the carbon rods but they looks like new, all other parts are still like the first day.
This makes no sense, with input shaper on the MK4 the print speed is almost the same as on the P1P.
@@b0kix953 I would have to see data to believe this. The extreme disadvantage of the bedslinger architecture cannot be overcome by software magic. The P1P also has vibration testing and software adjustment, and it doesn't have to throw the print bed and part around for every move
@@BrianHockenmaier The MK4 isn't the first bedslinger that can print fast, look at all the other fast printing bedslingers on the market like the Ankermake.
Slice the same file in Prusaslicer with a 0.2 MK4 IS profile and on Bambuslicer, you will get a similar estimated print time.
For a short print or a long print? Bambu has probably half the estimate for heating the bed and leveling and other prep for small prints.
The other consideration is these "fast" bedslingers only work with PLA. Any performance material like nylon or ABS is going to warp when being thrown around in the open air like that. As someone who prints with PLA only 1/3 of the time, the fundamental design of the bedslinger will simply never work well for me.
BTW my first printer back in 2013 was a bedslinger and I loved it. The tech has since evolved
@@BrianHockenmaier Both. I was looking at the actual print time without the preparation, you can try it yourself.
This is nothing to do with PLA or any other material. Obviously you will need an enclosure for the MK4 if you want to print ABS but that's also available from Prusa. We have 6 MK4s and 3 X1Cs at work and we print a lot with the MK4s because the print quality is better, and most importantly the mechanical properties. If you print really fast you loose a lot of strength and especially layer adhesion even with PLA.
thanks, solid video answers a lot of questions
Both seem like great machines and competition will bring out the best from both. Never understand the extreme fanboy takes whether it is cameras, phones, cars, or whatever. It is possible for more than one company to make good products and we are far more like to see innovation when there is good competition. I have a Bambu X1C and love it but I am sure I would be equally thrilled had I bought a Prusa MK4. Really appreciate the thought you put into your test and for clearly sharing the caveats and conclusions.
Well done mate, great video+explanation+presentation! Thank you for sharing - NEW SUB 🙏🏻
Just a note for the future. E3D and Bambu collaborated to develop an ObXidian nozzle for the P and X series. I contacted them and was told they won't be available until March. Big Tree Tech will be releasing a Revo quick swap nozzle for the P1 and X1. Haven't heard a date yet.
Wow. Shortest sponsorship shout-out ever! Nice! You know you did great when it's slower to skip the ad then to just view it. ❤ Well done 😊
Thank you I been looking at both saws
I have experience with various printers over the years and personally owned an ender3. More recently i bought the x1c and using it felt like stepping into the future. I know buying into this new generation of printers early means im missing out on the benefits of competition and probably spent much more than would be required of i waited a bit but wow is it still incredible. I cant wait to see what the printer market looks like in a couple years
I would really love to hear how you collect your prints (removing by hand, using g-code to push them off the bed after cooling, using printers at an angle so cold prints fall off, etc), how (or if) you clean your plates, what you do for maintenance, etc. There are a lot of folks that seem to insist that prints don’t adhere to the plate without glue, hairspray, constant cleaning with soapy water or alcohol, and such, and then other folks that insist you need a chisel to remove prints sometimes. How do you manage this with thousands of prints per week?
I do about 50-100 hours of printing a week between my two MK3S+ printers for my etsy shop, I use textured PEI plates with PLA and PETG and basically never have adhesion or sticking issues, I just wipe the plate with a towel and alcohol, but that's mainly to clean off any dust or melted fragments of filament. I clean them with soap and water maybe every other month. For prep, the only time I would ever use glue or hairspray is for TPU, because TPU sticks way too hard to PEI, it will destroy PEI. Other than that, the prints stick great, and they're always completely loose when the plate cools down, but I can also pop them off by hand right after the print is done. I take the skirt and nozzle clearing lines off with my fingernail.
I used to have tonnes of trouble getting prints to stick on my CR10S. I tried glue sticks (didn't work), painter's tape (worked too well) and clean raw glass (sometimes worked, sometimes didn't). Then I bought a (way overpriced) sheet of transparent adhesive PEI and stuck that on the glass build plate. Since then (about 4 years ago), I've literally never had failed adhesion. All I do for prep is heat the bed, use a splash of non-acetone-based nail polish remover on a tissue and wipe down the hot bed and it's good to go. I don't even know if the nail polish remover is necessary but I've always used it. I even did a terrible job of applying the PEI sheet so it's kind of bubbly, but it doesn't seem to affect anything.
We run a print farm with 6 Creality K1 Max printers and every one has had issues, 4 of which have already been replaced in just a few months. Thank goodness for the 1 year warranty. We needed a bigger build plate for what we make. I eagerly await a larger Bambulabs machine (like everyone else)
Please, can you tell more about K1 Max, we are all happy with long stories here.
I was initially interested in the K1 Max but didn't buy one. I was turned off by the early hot end issues. It seems that Creality has addressed the issues with rolling upgrades and design improvements, and a K1 today is a much better value proposition than it was for early adopters. The current Black Friday pricing on the K1 Max is very tempting. I'd also be tempted to buy one and immediately upgrade to the Micro-Swiss hotend for better reliability, increased flow rate and access to quality Micro-Swiss nozzles in a variety of sizes, hardened nozzles, etc.
@@Liberty4Ever yeah $700 for the k1 max vs 1300 for the x1c. its hard to justify. Bambu will be releasing an X1E enterprise edition which avoids the cloud data issues and an X1L larger build volume soon(ish). I have an ender 7 and its good when its good but when it fails its spectacular :) I am currently try to decide between the K1max and x1c. From what I understand the K1 had all the hot end problems that were slowly fixed. The K1 Max benefited from those early issues.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign - As mentioned in the video, the difference between a $700 K1 Max and a $1300 X1C matter little over five years of continuous print farm use. Reliability and throughput are the dominant considerations. However, the K1 is currently selling for $399 on Creality's site and rumor is that it'll be $350 for Black Friday.
The enclosure is a great help for ABS but makes maintenance much more difficult than an open frame bed slinger. Qidi has a consumer grade enclosed printer with an actively heated build chamber. That should produce Stratasys level ABS print quality but I'm waiting for a consumer 3D printer manufacturer other than Qidi to make a 3D printer with a heated chamber for engineering materials. FlashForge has a nice looking industrial level heated chamber 3D printer.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign Hi, are you speculating or do you know this? Any insight on when a larger X1 will be released?
Had to come to add a like because of your last line 😂 Great video. Can’t wait for the one year update of this.
You were one of my first channels I subscribe to. Garage shop projects, I was immediately interested. I am happy for your progress and your success. I’m a woodworker at heart (garage stile like you were)! That said I’m having a hard time with understanding your videos recently. Not your fault, your success is my ignorance I guess! Keep Shop Greatness going!
I get it, believe me I struggle with it too!
That is a very interesting analysis. Thank you for sharing your results and your conclusions. Hope you the best for your business. And i am very impatient to learn more about your feedback in the mext year.
Good analysis. I love my Mk3 but want Bamboo labs for my next one. It would be neat to see your opinion on each printing various engineering materials. What did you use for this comparison?
Thank you, this was a great objective look at the ins and outs of printer reliability. Im thinking of getting one of the Bambu P series printers for small print runs and this was very helpful.
I'm currently running my print farm on Prusa Minis. They are printing 24/27/365 since 2 years with very little problems (usually just some nozzles that need repacement). Had to change all the heat brakes and extruders with the ones from bondtech. Very reliable machines. If you don't have/need much footprint, I totally can recommend those little helpers :)
What nozzle do you use and do you have any upgrade tips for the mini?
I use the standard e3d v6 nozzle. For sure u need the bondtech IFS extruder and heat brake as an upgrade. Am currently looking to upgrade the heat block with the one from slice engineering and combine it with the cht nozzle from e3d to fully use the new input shaper
i have almost every brand of FDM and resin 3D printer. All work but most are weekend toys or the odd part, not farm machines. The prusa MK4 is very nice and some good upgrades over the mk3. It would be solid for any production shop. That said, I LOVE my X1 carbons. Speed, accuracy, ease of maintenance and replacement parts. negatives for me are the waste of filament before and after print (i think this can be reduced though). The ~ 6 minutes for calibration and leveling before each print (which can be turned off, but I wouldn't chance it). Still the best I have used so far. I was also skeptical of the 'print house' ability but this is a solid test and as long as rod, cutter, and head wiper maintenance is done regularly, it should be ok. head replacement is easier with the packaged assembly so my downtime is very minimal. Absolutely the best for prototyping though. The fast print option is staggering when you're doing initial design work.
Great video Travis so amazing and awesome how you’re business is doing congrats to you. Can’t wait for the Ridgid R4222 Miter saw dust shoot .
I had been wanting a 3D printer for years but only for hobby printing. After doing the research and watching your videos regarding the Bambu printers, I went ahead and got the P1S. It's shipping my way now but watching this video has made me that much more confident in the purchase. Can't wait to see what the next update on your experiment shows.
Any update on your Bambulab printers vs the new prusias? Are they holding up? When are you going give an update or followup to this video. Looking forward to a new report. Thank you for your content .
Like your no-nonsense approach and focus on the true real-life criteria for a business.
Best printer for a print farm is the Ankermake M1 from my experience running 12 of them. They replaced my fleet of mixed printers (mostly Prusas) and I have had only 1 print failure in the last 3 months, which calculates to a 99.8% success rate.
Hi Shop Nation. Thank you so much for video and helpful information on print farms and which printers to choose. I am in the process of starting an online business in the 3D printing space/niche. What really helpful tip and information that you learned over your time in the 3D printing niche that would you give people starting out in this business niche.
Nice Video!
Which Settings did you use for printing? Which Material and which volumentric flow rate each? Thinking of bader quality overall, if you have a (too) high volumetric flow rate.
I'm seeing a lot of people "just" talking about the speed and output - i think you covered strength tests but i'm interested - because you could use a cht nozzle to get similar volumetric flow rates on the prusa.
Love this video; I have 3 X1C and love them, but I was thinking of getting the P1P's as well; this helped a lot. Would love to know where you got the racks at, the setup is very clean.
This is invaluable information
I ran a print farm of Enders and CR-10’s for years. Your 15% success on MK3 was similar to what I had. I was of the belief that paying of the printer quicker was more important since I could get to profit quicker since I didn’t know how long demand would last. But as the demand grew and the product life continued I switched to injection molding. I got several quotes, rolled the tooling cost into the component price and within 3 months was making more money with a lot less work. I now just use 3D printers to determine demand and then injection mold. I no longer have to support/monitor a printfarm. You might check into that if you need that much production. Your parts will be better quality, stronger and I found better perception of quality by my customers. It also allowed me to select better materials for outside harsh environment some of my products are exposed to.
So did you outsource the injection moulding or did you buy the machines for that?
Outsourced it. Got a couple different quotes and went with best overall quote. Been with the same company for 3 yrs now. Still working out well.
Doing iterations? Free revisions is advantage of FDM.
Very nice video. After almost two years (on and off) of modding, learning, and developing for speed and accuracy, I think I am done and ready to maximize reliability. Of course the answer to business problems lies in the middle to maximize production. I feel like production machines are catching up to my customization and custom technology. Good timing I suppose. The hobby of fixing my printer is over.
Hi There thanks for the Video ! Quick question what software dop you use for the monitoring and management of your multi vendor print farm ?
Thanks for showing your work!! Heartily agree with you about the cheap printers, fine for hobbies, but just can’t cut it in a production environment. Our P1P’s have proven extremely useful.
How does P1P
perfrom on TPU/TPE prints? I really need this information. Reading Reddit or so, 90% of the users prints PLA or PETG.
@@Pajunges sorry, we don’t have applications for using those materials, so no experience to report on.
Great video I have been putting prusa vs Bambu to work in my farm and with input shaping I find it pretty close but I really want full automation still trying to figure that out for what build plate for PETG. My gcode works on the bambus just sticks too good to the build plate to be consistent for 24/7 production.
Great video, my only concern owning both MK3s and Carbon X1 machines for my sim racing accessories business is that although the bambu labs is quicker and has a better finish, why is the bambu labs support material
so much harder to remove than Prusa support? I run same printer model
on both. Do you have this issue? it takes me three times longer to remove the support from bambu prints
I really enjoy your videos. I am going to buy a Bambu Lab P1P printer after watching your video. Thank you so much for being unbiased. Could recommend what accessories and filament I should get for him? Thank you!
Great info on printers and print farms! He decided to include Bambu Lab P1p in his print farm since it beat prusa in output of filament used (18.6 kg), prints produced (192), uptime (922 hrs) and scrap rate (4% compared to 10% & 15% in prusa)
My pitiful comment is that in accounting terms you depreciate the cost of a tangible asset not amortize it. Keep up the great videos. This whole series has been great! There are so many problems/opportunities that go into getting this started and you have no idea how much I appreciate you sharing your experience (I have no 3D printing experience but this had really helped open my eyes to the viability of this as a business)
Noted! Thank you for the correction
i bought a creality k1 max for my first printer. its amazing for organizing my tool box and tool cart at my shop. total game changer
Really good investigation! …waiting for the one year conclusion!
I have owned two Prusa MK3s and now have a Bambu X1 carbon. My Prusas have had issues from the beginning with the thermistors, both hot end and bed. And recently, one of the power supply units quit working. They are both 4+ years old, so, i guess i got good time out of them, though they didnt run 24/7.
I have had my X1C for only a couple weeks and love it, even though it is louder than my MK3s. The reliability remains to be seen. I have high hopes and expectations for it.
Could you go into why you chose the P1P vs P1S or X1C?
This is super interesting research, i wish you could add more printers to this; Say Creality K1 and CR-10 SE
Brilliant video, single handedly answered so many of the questions ive had re Bambu for a while now.. please update at the 6 month mark! and your closer about the $150 printer rage.. quality ;)
Great job explaining your experience and findings. Loved the last minute of this video is what I would be interested in if I was looking for a high production machine. What I am really interested in is a real comparison of entry level printers that are easy and reliable to use. Watched lots of reviews and still can't tell what would work for me.
Comically, this only made me want the K1 more.
The issues I had with the Bambu labs printers seem to be your concerns too, and the issues I've had with creality are usually easy as shit to fix/upgrade
Keep in mind, I'm not a print farm. I just want to prototype.
Do you do anything for moisture in your pla or are you just going through material fast enough not to worry about it?