Why Training Volume Isn’t EVERYTHING | Dorian Yates
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2023
- Are you a fitness enthusiast who's been led to believe that training volume is the key to success? Think again! In this groundbreaking episode of The Game Plan Podcast, legendary bodybuilder Dorian Yates reveals why training volume isn't everything when it comes to achieving your fitness goals.
Drawing on his decades of experience as a professional athlete and entrepreneur, Dorian explains why a more holistic approach to fitness is crucial for long-term success. He shares insights into the importance of nutrition, recovery, and mental focus, as well as the business and personal development strategies that have helped him stay at the top of his game.
If you're looking for a fresh perspective on fitness and how to achieve your goals, this is the podcast episode for you. Join host [Insert Host Name] as he sits down with Dorian Yates for an in-depth conversation about what it takes to succeed in the world of fitness, business, and personal development.
Tags: Dorian Yates, The Game Plan Podcast, fitness, bodybuilding, training volume, nutrition, recovery, mental focus, business development, personal development.
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Mike mentzer would be proud
I might be wrong I frequently am but i do believe yates won six titles. Mentzer was a big proponent of the heavy duty training which dorian also did alot of. Same with steve reeves and arthur jones
@CharlieOl202 Pretty disrespectful and narrow-minded thing to say honestly. Dorian is great, but you simply can't deny the influence Mentzer had on the body building scene.
@@stonedwizard420pupils should be better then masters
@@stonedwizard420 Dorian won 6, but Mike constantly talked and guided Dorian. Dorian followed Mike’s training
@@stonedwizard420 What a stupid comment
Intensity over everything.
Absolutely not.
@@Banu.fitnessWhy not?
@@donsandrano1429 intensity is only part of the equation when it comes to muscle growth. There’s also the volume piece as well as frequently. Plus, studies show that training close to failure (1-3 reps in reserve) provides as good stimulus for muscle growth as training to failure, but with potentially less fatigue.
@@Banu.fitness🤓
@@Banu.fitnesstraining till failure is part of intensity though. 💀 Volume is reps, sets, the number of different exercises, training frequency etc.
You can go to the gym 6 days a week and make no muscle gains if you're not training hard enough. Whereas if go for 3 days but lift heavy and train till failure, you will put on muscle mass. So yes. Intensity over volume.
Mike mentzer is listening and he is proud
I love how Dorian barely weight trains now , is 61 and is still bigger than I could ever dream to be! what a legend! 👍
I mean there's a couple of reasons for that but I get your point
He can't train anymore due to training injuries.
@@nboss968 yes i know, you're missing the point though. ( he's bigger than us without barely training)
All of these former olympian competitors are still taking atleast TRT. They need to be because all those years of drug abuse shut down their bodies natural production of hormones. Exogenous hormones would play a large part of him being in his current shape.
He probably uses intensity in a different manner than increased weight as he used to. This can be isometric holds and negative reps at a lighter weight than he use to due to the injuries he sustained.
Dorian yates is a Legend
Tbh if you train hard you only need a few hours a week. Recovery and sleep is so important. I don't sleep well and haven't for years. I feel like shit all the time and constantly get injuries or pain when training.
Check out your vitamin levels and shit. Vit d,c b12, zink, selenium. And magnesium makes you sleep better
I suck at sleeping too man, is it the inability to shut your brain off?
@@TheBoon14 just a shitty cycle of pain/inflammation in my back and shoulders. Resistance to medication(stops working after a day or 2 and don't want to be on them anyway). And also the supplements bro mentioned above are bs unless you are deficient, which I am not. And I also have a 1.5 year old and a 2 month old...
@@FreshDouganyep the grommets will give you sleep deprivation, my three are young adults now, so now after 20 years I can get back to some normalcy
Babies definitely don’t help, nor does work. No kids but I work like a dog and end up with shit sleep. Sucks man. Sometimes feel delirious when training
Never understood Arnold's idea to excercise. No matter how many sets you do, the last one is the most exhausting and stimulating. Waste of time to do tons of sets, when you know intensity matters more
Because Arnold was dumb and he was lying about his training.
You have to understand that Arnold explained that the extra unnecessary volume that he used was for a few months before contest. Before the pre contest routine that he used, He used less sets and less training days for size
Arnie said that to try and get an edge over the competition by duping them into Overtraining
Gyms everywhere would be loaded with jacked people if volume was the key as tons of people spend hours and hours overtraining
Hmm, not sure they are overtraining. More likely they are "overspending" time in the gym doing exercises that don't do enough to stimulate the targeted muscle.
Love listening to Dorian 💪🏼💪🏼
Mike Mentzer's number one student, no one could ever deny HIT because of Dorian and his results, as well as those he trains as well.
exactly what Mike Mentzer said
Intense targeted training 🔥
I just started working out. I’ve been doing it for a month straight and recently I’ve been working out every other day and just recently I worked out last Monday and now it’s Friday and I still haven’t worked out because I’m sore. And I let my body recover properly. I want to failure a bunch of times during my last workout
I for one always go to failure, and by failure, I mean I am shaking and panting on my last rep but the weight is no longer moving, sweat is popping out of my pores 😅. I’ve heard people say that gains diminish after about 2 rep to failure but I don’t really know how to gauge how close to failure I am unless I feel like I’m torturing my muscles
I think of it has holding a bucket of water with one arm at shoulder height. Hold it until you can’t hold it anymore. Put it down and repeat the process, eventually you will not be able to lift it at all. That is working the muscles to failure.
Dorian, Mentzers, and Jones were all 100% correct. Boil down volume, then I should be able to become a bodybuilder curling soup cans for 500 reps. Endurance? Yes. But you won’t see effective growth. Volume can not equal HIT.
That’s such silly reasoning. Just because a minimum intensity threshold exists, doesn’t mean you should also disregard volume.
All of the actual science points to equating volume = equating hypertrophy, regardless of intensity, as long as you surpass the minimum intensity threshold.
It’s not an extreme of only volume or only intensity. You should have a little of each.
The stimulus:fatigue ratio is better at 2 RIR than 0 RIR even though you get more hypertrophy from a single set at 0 RIR.
The answer then, would be to maximize recoverable volume near 2 RIR
@@oldskoolbodybuildingroutin7178 truth be told I just wholesale plagiarize all my lifting knowledge from Dr. Mike Israetel.
Helped me go from 265lb obese to 168lb lean to 212lb shredded with visible ab veins.
But yeah I’m sure you’re much bigger than me 😉
Who are those guys? Dexter Jay Arnold. All twice a day Hogg volume .
@@jordanlewis4308how much volume would you recommend?
I always feel this guy is saying Mike Mentzer ideas
He is a student of mike
Legend
It is AMAZING to see people disagree with some one that did what he did at the HIGHEST level. Just think about this…to be the BEST out of 8 billion people and you have the audacity to say that his way it’s not the best way. 🤯🤯🤯
I like his style of training but dude cmon 😂 he has 0.000000001% genetics he would’ve turned out the same way wether he did volume or intensity plus he was on massive amounts of gear and plus bodybuilding was HIS JOB if you think you or anyone can’t plausibly relate to this man in a training context your out of your mind 😂 plus if we’re basing this off the best bodybuilders being right then technically Arnold and Ronnie were far better than Dorian record wise and both of them did volume
I prefer intensity but that isn’t a reason to do it just because Dorian did it
how can you do HIIT only by bodyweight and no equipments in your home?
Hmm if you get Mike mentzers book and change the exercises to body weight, and just do 1 set to failure you should be off a good start I believe
He trained my dad
he trained my goldfish
Yes it is.
How many hard sets can you recover from once you can figure that out your onto a winner
Legs still look jacked
Fkn legend.
Mentzer ❤
I can’t understand why pro bodybuilders don’t follow his advice. His results speak for themselves. People quote Ronnie as the GOAT but he never came close to Dorian during his career. As for all time physique those photos of Dorian three weeks out from the 93 Olympia show the best physique ever. There’s an argument to say Dorian overdid the dieting before he stood on the Olympia stage.
If you take as much PED as these guys did, you can basically do anything regarding heavy weights and you will see progress.
Thats why its fatal, listening to them. Because their experience means jack shit for the general natural lifters.
Studies go totally against his word
It is painful maybe
Idk why people hardcore bash this training style and philosophy as well as the Mentzer bros bashing on volume for hypertrophy. I've seen both sides get so extreme and dogmatic with this. I've personally lessened the volume and increased the intensity and time under tension with progressive overload and how often I train in a given week and have seen noticeable results. I give myself more time to recover so I can go back and go on the attack, again which I think many often neglect. Recovery is important. I still train a little bit of volume but I'm not so strict with limiting myself in how much I do or how little. It's about just trying to get the proper stimulus and making sure you recovery properly before breaking down the muscle, again. If you have to increase the volume to do that then that's completely fine. Some people just don't know how to push themselves to that kind of intensity because it's really hard to with how grueling it is. You really have to build a strong will to push yourself to that kind of intensity. All in all just find what works for you and manipulate your program a bit and stay consistent with it if you're getting results whether that's increasing or decreasing volume, intensity, weight, or recovery periods. You don't have to be an extremist, just be fucking normal lmao
People will still argue that you need to do 100 sets of each exercise twice a day 😂😂
No but most people definitely need more than 1 set each body group every 4 days...
@@jaynikk758 “intense targeted training and proper recovery”
@@Freespeechassassinonly if you can completely destroy the targeted muscle , 99.999999% of People cant train that hard.
@@barbarapitenthusiast7103 basically everyone reacts differently to different training. Multiple sets of each exercise will still give gains but training to absolute failure for 1 set will do the same thing in less time.
@@Freespeechassassin sure, but can you completely destroy the targeted muscle in 1 set? Most People cant, thats why you need intensity AND volume.
What about Vince Gironda’s approach ?
Dude is a tank even now
Horses for courses. Some need the volume to eventually increase intensity. It takes a mindset to achieve something. The Methodology can be adapted a bit to suit the suitor.
You incorporate Volume when you actually train for a specific sport/athletic build. You can bench 250 5 reps max that’s great. Can you bench 180 20+ reps? Train the way u wanna look
How should one train if they wanna have a mix of athletic and bodybuilder physique?
Take that RP
And still today, people cannot grasp this simple concept…. It’s mind blowing how much sh*t I continue to get for sharing my workout routine 🙄
Whats your routine? Im on the fence about a 4 or 3 day routine
@@theItalianshamrock Monday; chest and back.
Tuesday; shoulders and triceps.
Wednesday; legs/core, biceps.
Allow at minimum 72 hours recovery. After warm up, one set to total failure, drop set immediately back to failure ( I don’t do workout partners ) or superset immediately back to failure. Always slow ( 5+ second ) negatives… throw in static holds, lift pause lift, and if you do have a workout partner, do as many negatives as possible. There’s always way more negatives in the tank than positive’s… intensity is paramount along with an amply recovery period! Don’t let the roided out volume Meatheads fool you!
@@stevencaldwell838Monday , Tuesday , Wednesday
How's that 72 hours rest sir?
@@MikeJohnMentzer I think I may have not been clear…
Example;
Monday; chest/back
Tuesday; legs/core
Wednesday; shoulders/ triceps/biceps
Minimum 3 days recovery from each workout.
Monday workout Thursday and so on…
it takes Mike Mentzer actually to help you get bigger biceps, true story!
💯🔥🔥🦁
Volume is one factor and research has shown for most people probably one of the most important factors but it's not the only factor.
This was out of context. Yates and mentzer knew that hit isn't the best method for hypertrophy and they both talked about this after their career.
Volume isn't the most important factor but one of the. It doesn't mean more is always better. Almost every pro after 2000 had so much more volume than.
A pro has to train more vlume than a regular gym goer. They don't start like this you have to increase it over time. Valume isn't just how many sets you do it is also how much wright you move and how hard the dets were. There are different ways to encrease volume you should do both which is more time under tension and more intensity. Why not do both? The optimal result will never be to just increase one.
Do you really think ronny coleman could have looked like he did with 2 sets a week? Do you think he could habe trained with more intensity? No he has to increase time under tension as well.
The best in the sport always has an insane amount of volume. Jay cuttler workedout twice a day. Doesn't mean he lacked intensity but he would have never looked that good if he had 2 sets per week.
Just talking to yourself here mate , no one’s reading all of that 😂.
bs
It depends on what works for you. For me . I come from the arnold school. The pump movement is the . More reps work the mus c l
humans are fundamentally similar when it comes to training requirement, stop peddling this “whatever works for you” bullshit because intense training will work for everyone
@Shan that's bullshit. I see guys lift heavy weights and don't build one single muscle. They might get strong this it. Doing less than 8 reps of a set is a waste. You have to work the muscle. Tell that to flex, heath, jay and ornold who have one multiple olympias. They must be wrong about volume exercise. Like I told you everybody body is built different what works for you might not work for others. But one thing I know. High volume exercise work for everybody. I have alot of mass but barely go heavy. You must be a fan boy of Dorian and mike mentzor
@@KrishnaSingh-ow1ie have you ever seen someone that squats 600lbs with small legs? Of course getting stronger will get you bigger. And yes 5 or less reps will be better for strength but nobody is arguing about reps we are arguing about sets volume. It makes the most sense to start with one set because if you dont make progress you can always increase volume, if you start out doing 20 sets but dont make any progress where do you go? up to 21 or down to 19? All youre doing is telling me anecdotal evidence from the literal 0.0001% genetic elite on major amounts of gear who will grow from literally anything not to mention that leaving reps in reserve is much safer for huge body builders so they can avoid injury but isnt necessary to naturals
@@Shan-sk8pfeveryone should do what fits them, even if everyone was the same it isnt all about training optimal, maybe someone likes something else or something
@@Rejdouvejn maybe that’s the difference between me and others. Ima just train what gives me the best results idc if i like it or not. But exercises can be viewed objectively when it comes to effectiveness and people shouldn’t complain when someone tells them their favorite exercise is bad.
I love people reciting literature claiming training a muscle group twice a week is optimal as if it’s going to work for everybody
This is a short clip, obviously there is gonna be nuance as literally every single body is different. And it changes based on our experience level as well. Too many factors to account for in 30 seconds.
I don’t wanna sound dumb but what does “proper recovery” mean in this context?
It is.
So simple.
There’s a balance to volume obviously we don’t train all day
If anyone can give sound solid real advice its this man
the key take here is the "proper recovery"
I think that everybody could learn something from Dorian. While volume has its time and place in progressive overload it is nowhere as important as just getting your intensity up.
You need Both intensity AND volume
@@barbarapitenthusiast7103 true
I'm really curious as to whether this methodology is applicable to powerlifting. I don't think I've seen any powerlifters adopt this strategy.
This methodology is not always applicable in bodybuilding either. When a powerlifter trains for a hypertrophy block he can use super high intensity but when he trains to up his main lifts that is a different story. You need to train with multiple heavy sets that are below your max effort because you train your nervous system as well in order to strain and produce maximum power output under heavy load .
@@user-jk3dz2st7u
Yeah that's how I'm running my program now. (Smolov jr.) Btw I wasn't talking about neuromuscular adaptation either. I was mostly interested as to whether this methodology could be used for myofibular hypertrophy. (the muscle type that primarily drives force production) in my understanding this methodology has only been used in bodybuilding which primarily stimulates sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (a type of muscle fiber that is larger with lower force production then myofibular muscle fibers.)
This cat's looking buff again
It takes cycles and difrent cycles
So Mike Mentzer was right....
@Mantastic-ho3vmYes.
With that watch dude is still making $$
The problem is that normal human cant go to that realm of pain in that intensity when u fricking giving it your all in that 1 set and drop sets in to oblivion that that muscle is just dead. The pain to go Plus Ultra intensity is not for casual at all
Why doesn't anyone ask Dorian about Jay Cutlers approach? Cutler says he literally never goes to failure on any set.
Not only that, Cutler also did around 20-25 per muscle group, pretty much the opposite to Dorian's routine
@@Mantastic-ho3vmare you the old skool routines dude? lol
So true, you can’t just keep adding endless sets
No but there is such a thing as optimal volume
Almost everything in Biology follows an inverted U shaped curve of optimal benefits. If intensity was the key why not do 1 maximum repetition, or do a set at intensity that is supramaximal by electrically stimulating our muscles to fire?
Menter's entire model of hypertrophy is inconsistent with what we have learned. The fact that you can stimulate muscle without creating an inroads by taking test without training (and that people who use without training gain over twice the muscle as people who train without using by the way) proves that his model of inroads, restoration, supercompensation is not fundamentally true. His methods may work by accident. The stimulus is also not a switch. It is thousands of switches spread out through every muscle cell, and it can be activated more or less profoundly depending on the stimulus, and nothing about training again short circuits the response.
The same logic can be applied to HIT training, if intensity is all it takes, then why not just do 1 set, 1 rep of maximal intensity? Because you need a combination of both.
the key is do the minimum required training to gain muscles not more is better either volume or intensity.
Mike won through him
@Mantastic-ho3vmYes he did
@Mantastic-ho3vm Yes he did
Not everything progresses linearly. If not anything
Be careful listening to this. Everyone’s genetics may be different. I used to train 3 sets a week per body part and got some gains. I bumped it up to 15 sets a week and blew up compared to what I was. It’s a comfortable feeling knowing you can do less and get more, be careful.
this is a stupid comment. Of course the amount of Volume has its limit. No one is saying 10 hours of day of volume. But 3 hard sets are going to be more stimulating than 1.
Yes but it's more about the amount of recovery afterwards. Three sets of equal intensity takes a lot longer.
Studies show 2-3 sets to 90% failure just as effective for growth as 1 all out set.. and less injuries
2-3 sets use more recovery reserves and it takes longer to recover and doing more actually lead to higher chances of injuries.
@@Han-nk3io I dont agree. I've been training for 35 years and have tried both training methods. I'm not talking about endless sets here, just a few more sets not quite to failure and I get better results and recovery is fine. Training is all about what works for the individual
From my experience multiple sets is what causes injury and soreness for me
Going to absolute failure won't hurt you..quit being scared
LOL, Ya, I've been training long enough to know what works for me. If you train different, great, go with that... and nobody is scared here. @@MikeJohnMentzer
It IS a key factor. To a point-- the law of diminishing returns applies.
Peace and Christ Bless!
Have a nice day everyone!
[02-09-2023_03_15.]
So bored of this point of view. Jay cutler did volume and he looked way better than Yates. It’s only Yates and Mentzer who do that style of training and they act like it’s the ONLY way, and everyone else is scared of training like that. You’re not a gladiator mate, you just lift weights
Mentzer built his physique with high volume training. The HIT came later
Difference is that they saved time by not wasting hours everyday in the gym and people who follow HIT can save time too and get good at something else
Very opposite to the Arnold school of training
You need to tell lee priest this, He seems to disagree.
I agree with this methodology myself.
Volume has been proven to be the number 1 factor for Hypertrophy over and over again though, it's not even difficult to find these studies
This is not true. Please put the name of a study that shows this when Intensity is equated.
How about just go the gym and enjoy it
Why don't winkes get bigger😂
Your MRV goes down once you become advanced
Who else other than Yates won anything with that training…
Team volume
Is that rolex ??
No.
Both approaches obviously work. If intensity was the main driver of growth, then just keep training even more intensely. Instead of 3 drop sets, do 30.
Idiot statement. 30 dropsets would be equivalent to volume training. You would end up doing such low weight, that you wouldn't even be inside 30% of your 1 rep max, which is now shown to be the absolute minimum for hypertrophy.
@martink.o8729 That was my point. It was an exaggeration to demonstrate the obvious. You of course wouldn't do 30 drop sets. That would be idiotic.
That’s pointless, or is it that you have that much strength and endurance to be able to do 30 dropsets? Totally pointless, it’s easier to do 8 exercises without proper intensity than "30 dropsets”.
@emilianodelrio9884 Jesus. Reread my second comment. I clearly said it was an EXAGGERATION.
How in the world is anyone still listening to these people?? Volume is the major factor.
The most you can do from which you will recover. He just uses the word "Volume" and totally misinterprets the word.
You cant recover from 10 hours of training.
That’s.. that’s his entire point..
Gvardiol is good but overrated. He’s one of those who a lot of people probably haven’t watched but they’ve heard the hype so just go along with it.
Over simplification to make a point is lazy knowledge sharing
Mike Ment Ze/zir
If Intensity was the key factor then shouldn't we just train once a month until we pass out?
Try it! (please don't wake up)
You try it first.. it'll be intense.@@martink.o8729
This seems like a good argument at first but it's just another dichotomous strawman type argument.
There seems to be literature out there that supports that there is a certain amount of overall work volume that seems optimal. It's more than 1 set per week.. not tons more mind you.
Arnold’s training is the exact opposite so just know there’s more than one way to skin a cat.
He forgot the peds...😅
It takes intensity
Consistently
And volume
And load
And diet
Great so one balls to the wall insanity session a year should be all it takes. Nonsense.
Junk volume
Best to take workout advice from natties
Thats why he had one of thr ugliest physiques and arnold had one of the best looking physiques 😂😂😂😂😂
Frequency 2x per week is better than dorians 1x per week bullshit all the way
it have been proven 1x vs 2x kind similar if volume is equated.
Too many clowns think I need to do 15/20 sets for a body part to make it grown and the prob is it’s called junk volume.
Why do you idiots think you can only do one set to failure or 100 sets of rpe 5 sets. You know you have to Blance volume and intensity
Zzzzzz go to gym for an hour and then shut up about it FFS
@@catfordkat wrong channels on my CZcams
Had nothing to do with the copious amounts of roids u were taking huh????? Nothing
overtraining is still possible even on roids 🤦♂️
@@Shan-sk8pf u would have to do a massive amount of lifting to overtrain on roids
@@JoseGarcia-qd4rr that’s true but you can’t just sit on ur ass and become my olympia even with roids. The fact that it made him grow that much proves that it’s an effective program especially for naturals too.
Well obviously, bud everyone can train intensely and to failure... Infact volume and less recovery fucks you up
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines i’m not responding to your comments from now on you’re unable to be reasoned with
Dorian has a ego issue. Volume works period
6x mr.olympia
Dorian is thw most humble guy in the Mr Olympia stage.
Time under tension... neither is more important. If weight was all that mattered you would just 1rm.. this dude needs to chill.
And shit tons of “help”
Targeting muscles my ass...Dorian the large amounts of gear you took and lifting heavy is what got you there. These dudes lying right in front of you.
Tens of thousands of dudes are taking the same amount or more gear than him. Why aren't they there?
So were all the other competitors taking gear, so what separated him from the others. Sickening ridiculous work ethic, the results speak for themselves. Cant believe I need to even point it out.
@@kcernestthat’s where genetics come in to play
Would like his advice on STEROID GEAR also.
These people tell you 30% of the story. Always.