I was with a therapist for 5 years and he sold his practice and all his client files. I protested and was told, “it isn’t my property and it belongs to the new owner.”
Your speaking about confidentiality in this video somehow brought to mind the time I told a psychotherapist about having been sexually violated as a very young person and how he then tracked that person down, called them, and asked them about it. This therapist never asked me any details about the incident. I only learned that he had contacted this other person years after the fact, and they of course denied that it ever happened. That therapist ended up laughing in my face and mocking me for experiencing severe depression and suicidal thoughts. I cannot help but think that the notes he took contain a reflection of this breach in confidentiality, that he took down information from an abuser and stated that it was more credible than what I said about my own experience. Grisly.
How tramatizing and inappropriate, I imagine you must live in a small town, otherwise I can't imagine why someone would go to that length. Praying for your healing
@@rienavoir8250 I thank you for saying so. It's not so hard to find a person these days because of social media. I imagine that he did all of that simply because he is sadistic, as are many in his field.
A friend of mine is gathering stories for a book , especially our stories about sexual assault and domestic violence. If you'd like to tell her your story and be included in it please let me know.
should work that way in all health care yet they give you a receipt the client came this date, this time, there are no notes from the doctor. It should be freely given notes and all every time the client shows up.
I saw a therapist for six months, then she asked me at that point what my first name was again. Hope my 'nameless' notes are shredded by now. It's nice to know of your respect.
When I requested my notes I also recieved the notes of another person with the same name, not redacted , all their personal details. I asked for an explanation and an apology never received it
Aah! That’s the second time I’ve heard this. The first time a man received the notes of a client of the same name who had just been diagnosed with HIV and was suicidal over it…
Lawsuit for both of you! This is a HIPPA violation! I had a twin sisters once who had the same name lived in two different states and had the same letter used for their middle names yet each middle name was different! This case lead to both women constantly in dispute with their health care as the one sister was using her other sister's benefits from states away yet also complicating it more by coming to the other sister's state and getting care as well! It was a huge issue to verify if I had the right person, we had to get bosses involved to make sure we were authenticating the right one for the right files so we could even start to say this is what we have. The person A was so patient as they'd dealt with this for years and couldn't do much to stop the sister from impersonating her! If your provider sends your notes to anyone but you, you can sue, if you receive any notes that are not you you can sue since the provider may've leaked your info to someone else as well your side of the case isn't rock solid yet it's not something that can't be attempted if you get someone else's notes. That provider was pissing their pants trying to burn the evidence they're lucky you didn't escalate an investigation or find a lawyer.
My health care company was hacked in 2020. Private details along with all my personal numbers and info. Along with hundreds of thousands others. That felt violating and i have no recourse or ability to obtain more details about that violation. While you spoke i thought of how i would be much more comfortable if my therapy notes were paper records instead of digital and not secure. I really appreciate your view from both perspective ‘s. The dynamic of the therapist being the emotionally unavailable harsh critic parent hit home. Thank you for your work here Daniel.
Great video, thank you so much for talking about this. What I really dislike on notes from psychotherapists, psychologists and sometimes even psychiatrists is that the notes are heavily impacted by their relationship towards the client / patient. They sometimes happen to be full of inaccurate guesses and sometimes telling more about the person writing it than the person who is it supposed to be about. They also heavily rely on the state the client / patient is currently in and sometimes portraying it as the state they're in now is their usual and permanent state. Etc. What's horrible is that it can overall negatively affect the client's / patient's care. They have the ability to portray us as complete idiots: I say "I have a rare spine disease", they write "Patient is convinced that she has some rare disease" and boom, it's messed up already, my care will be affected when this gets send out to some other professional, everyone else will believe their record more than me. As someone who's on a disability pension, this is a huge reason why I fear these evaluations and medical records. I can do my best, but if they'll want to twist things, they will and I can't do anything about it. And no one will care and I can't show my feelings about it, because there's a high risk of getting something ever worse written up there if I politely call them out - instead of correcting the record. Also, what I found particularly interesting is that once I went to a psychologist with a diagnosis that I wasn't properly tested for, but of course a diagnosis is a diagnosis and in his paper, it seemed like he maybe tried a little bit to portray things I said in a way that it would go with the portrayal of that particular diagnosis. Then I found out few of my childhood medical records with marked neurological problems and deficits and a year later, I happened to meet with him again - and suddenly, how his whole view on me seemed to change with the information I brought! It's like they often times look at the diagnosis line more than at the person. I often think about my various medical records in general, especially childhood ones. Where they are and how it is legal that they're the property of the doctors and therapists - and I can't fully obtain them. And I wish I could, because I apparently happen to have a genetic condition and because my parents didn't care about it that much, I don't have much info from them and I of course can't remember my early childhood. I wish I knew what was I like back then, because it could have helped me get some understanding for where I am now and it could help some of my other doctors too. So close, yet so far. When I can read my records, I usually do so, because I want to know the reality, but I do so with hesitation and a lot of stress about what I'm going to find. Or nowadays I usually hand it out to someone very close to me and ask them to read it for themselves and then tell me if it's good or bad or how bad it actually is. Because I currently don't have the nerves for it. The medical trauma that I accummulated over the years is unlike anything else I went through. The irony of fearing what's labeled as help, because that can sometimes hurt and make things worse even more.
that's how i always felt...even when you ask them about it they'll say their notes can't effect things in the future. seems mental health professionals just assume most of us don't know what we are talking about.. like saying the spinal disease- like you need to bring in those records to prove it instead of them taken you at your word.
@@kite6864 Exactly, most of them if not every single one of them says that it doesn't affect anything... yet it too often actually does. I wonder if they simply flat out lie to not to have to explain what all it can potentially affect or if they're so out of touch with the reality of being a patient/client that they really have no idea and believe that it never affects anything. And sadly, from my experience, even if you bring as much proof as you can, they sometimes ignore it or they skim over it and say it's not significant in their opinion, one of my psychiatrist had the guts to skim over my diagnosis as a reason for my back pain and wrote somatization disorder... I sent him then all the records on the mail as I was frustrated with his behavior and I'm not even sure if he read it, all his response was bland "thanks for feedback" that didn't really sit right with me. Not even talking about the fact that not all issues and experiences can be proven as easily as a spinal disease that's luckily visible on an MRI. (The disbelief from mental health professionals is imo often a big issue and many things from experiences to mental health and neurodevelopmental conditions to even some physical conditions can't be 100% easily proven.)
@@ek7652 They directly lie. I had a ton of therapists and a psychiatrist try that with bone tumors. I literally had tumors sticking out of me and visible malformed limbs
😮💨 I can clearly imagine what my psychotherapist wrote about me. He seemed bothered by my emotional reactions, and he often suggested me medication. All I wanted was someone to listen to me and to tell me I wasn't going crazy. I never stepped back into psychotherapy, and I never liked their infantilizing treatment ("I know better what is going on with you; you don't get better because you don't listen to me").
Betrayal trauma goes beyond just personal relationships. There is institutional betrayal trauma which many patients have experienced. It directly impacts a person's ability/desire to seek treatment. Trust issues are valid and not paranoia. I actually had a discussion with a therapist I started seeing about therapy notes and what she includes in them as it determines the content I'm willing to discuss. She specializes in trauma and actually understood my concern. Going through the family court system, these notes can be obtained and personal information becomes available to the other parent which furthers the trauma and abuse. It doesn't matter if you're seeking help for an issue- the focus becomes on the fact you have an issue 😒 The system is corrupt and not geared to healing.
exactly! but then withholding information sometimes gets you punished when you know deep down this person is not trustworthy. i think to myself, they will not make good use of this information that is so hard to get out of my mouth in the first place, so why bother? i feel this is understandable, and yet labeled undue paranoia. we are actually a lot of times not ALLOWED to question a doctor when mentally ill, as if your illness always negates differences in opinion of how you want to be treated. trust issues are real and people being treated in the mental health system are constantly threatened with consequences that would not help them. all that people sometimes need is compassion and understanding to jump start healing and are denied that over and over. oh how i wished to be threatened with compassion and understanding instead of hospitalization that i didn’t need.
During my time at university, they instructed us to take notes as objectively as possible and to write it in such a way that if the client read the notes, they would likely see it that way too. As a therapist you must also keep in mind that a client can request a copy of their notes at any given time so it' is in the therapists best interest also to not put negativity into it. If a therapist gets into a bad habit of doing this, it will further cloud how they view the client, leading to poor therapeutic outcomes. It is alright to formulate hypotheses in your notes but these should be formed based on the actual words the client used in conjunction with psychological theories. It is never acceptable to write your personal interpretation of the client.
Urgh, I didn't realise therapist kept notes on clients. IMHO they should only do that if they share it with the clients and better still do it together.
Every time I get a disclosure of privacy info here in the U.S.A. I throw it out and think "what privacy?" At least Europe has GDPR, which is somewhat helpful. Thank you again Daniel. Safe space...
I felt like the biggest fraud being a mh therapist. Half diagnoses werent accurate, mostly just in priority view for the other Medicaid programs. You're spot on. Let's not talk on med-seeking smh!!
This is such an under discussed issue. Daniel, thank you for speaking on this topic so intelligently. I have had such a difficult time communicating ways I have felt burned by unethical / unprofessional therapists I have seen.
Wow, this is eye-opening. Note to self: If you ever need help, go to a coach instead of a psychotherapist. Or better yet, ensure confidentiality by working it out inside yourself.
Going to disagree here. It’s sort of damned either way. Coach would also have major issues. (1) Not bound by confidentiality (2) No formal training (3) No licensing board Maybe those sound like positives, and I agree in the best case you would find someone good with a good working relationship, coach or not. But often coaches are just trying to bypass the licensing board and do therapy anyway, or they had their license revoked already! You have to be careful, and avoiding “psychotherapy” is not a shortcut. And “do it alone” isn’t going to work for wounds that have to do with being alone in the first place, painful and threatening as it might be to seek out and depend on someone again.
It's the most horrible humiliation. Pure evil! Does these social workers, nurses, doctors etc. have any moral or self insight at all? Western psychiatry has a very dark and grotesque setup 💔
My therapist remembers more details about what I have said than I do. I don't see her writing notes, but she is familiar with the whole cast of characters and the timeline of everything.
Ideal situation would be clients paying out of a pocket to people who advertise themselves as a therapist, or healer or coach. I remember hearing Thomas Szasz talking about his practise. He just advertised "listening and talking". If they have good reviews, you go. Or if you are reffered by someone you trust. Becouse all of that protective, legal stuff, from what you say, is for the benefit of the therapist usually.
As someone with a lot of past trauma that i now work with successfully i want to say that this is not the safest suggestion. A lot of self- styled helpers are "emotional porn" addicts who purposely activate people for their own entertainment or just to keep business.
@@michasosnowski5918 a lot pf trauma survivors don't have strong faith in their own perceptions. We can also bond w people who activate us. A good manipulator can keep us emotionally captive for a long time before we realize what's happen ing, so no. That mechanism isn't good enough
@@tahiyamarome going to school for a couple of years to pass exams and a practicum; with no therapy btw for self; any emotional porn junkie can successfully get a diploma and practice as a legit mh therapist Which I at this point think is amusing
What is the argument _for_ taking notes on the first place? Supervision? Because, really, whoever writes it can write anything. Something being written is not proof of anything
It was distracting for me as a client watching my therapist write notes. I remember one session especially. It is haunting. I’ll always wonder what my therapist wrote about me:(
I really enjoy these long form talks from you, Daniel. Great to just kick back and listen to. I'm also reminded to request my former therapist's notes, because I could never tell if she was using some kind of technique on me or didn't want to engage me too much or what was going on. I suppose it could serve as a confirmation that my spidey senses weren't off.
8:16 God I really wish my therapist encouraged me to challenge him when I felt like it. The discoveries we could have made with actual mutual conversation vs top-down lecturing would have been tremendous. For anyone familiar with Stefan Molyneux's earlier work with his inner circle of listeners, IMO this was the fatal flaw that led to that whole thing blowing up. There was no mutual conversation. It was all top-down.
Gosh, as a European the American therapy system seems messed up. We write notes like "Client says x/y" and "Discussed X with client" and then write about what interventions we used. For example, "discussed the client's difficult relationship with mother" and intervention would be "Discussed the topic of parentification." Notes are never a place to write our opinions about clients. We also use an anonymous ID code so that if someone found them they wouldn't even know who they are. These stories about notes are horrifying!
Ive thought about getting my therapy notes from a terrible therapist I had back in the early 2010's. The guy was awful, condescending, and when he wasnt doing that he was playing mind games and spoke in riddles. One time he was being particulaly vague and I outright asked him what he was talking about, and he told me he wouldnt tell me because it would be "pearls before swine". Looking back on it it is hilarious to think about how seriously I took him and how much I wanted to respect his opinion. I felt the same as you did about wanting to win over the parent figure thing I think. I can only be sure he wrote terrible things about me given what passive aggressive sentiments he did express. Though I am often the type of person who always wants the truth even if it hurts or has no real value to me (or is just all together pointless), I decided to spare myself this time.
@@rockswings I've thought about it for years and I dont think that he was abusing his authority, at least not intentionally. I think he just had a lot of his own unresolved stuff and was a very split off person in a lot of ways. It is incredibly hard to do the job he was doing, and I think he was just in too deep with how brutal the job could be, and as a result ended up numbing out a lot of his clients stuff that was either too much for him or hit too close to home with his own unconscious, unresolved, split off issues. I recommend Daniel's "patients who are healthier than there therapists" video, I think it sums up a lot of what was going on pretty well.
I took it to a whole new level i was recording the sessions without consent as a client but when he knew i did record he flipped his shit and asked to delete the old records i told him therapy isnt cheap and i wanted to gain maximum value from these sessions and its about my life not his and the records didn’t violate his privacy but he prohibited using the voice recorder after the discussion we had in the future sessions so I stopped going to therapy because my issues matters and i wanted a therapist who would actually fucking listen and care when i feel that the session is all about the money and no value so i can talk for 45 minutes and we just forget everything after we go through our day and forget most of what we talked about afterwards i would say with absolute certainty n therapy did me more harm than good The value I gained from listening to these records was nothing i wasnt seen i i wasnt heard I didn’t even know what was the problem he didnt diagnose or gave me answers or the perspective about my identity / anxiety/ shame i was confused my life was better without it
I sure wish I could obtain the notes about me from the therapist who sent me to a psych center for four months when I was 16. Along with all the notes from the several counselors, nurses, other doctors…and random people I had to speak with every day lol. I know they’re long gone though that was in the 80s.
I offer my notes to all my clients at the outset of our relationship, so that if they want I can send the notes over right after I write them. A lot of people say yes, but not everyone. Sometimes the notes can become an important part of our relationship: they get to see how I'm thinking about things and that can open up new conversations. It also holds me accountable because I know they are looking. I hear what you are saying about not taking notes at all, it's certainly a risk if the wrong people read them, but for me they're important as if I weren't taking notes it'd be hard to reflect on progress over time.
Wow I like that, seems it would be nice to know for feedback and what direction the therapy sessions are going....I asked a counselor what he thought about things once and he carefully gave me an answer but it was vague and it seemed like he didn't want to give too much information. The good thing is that he doesn't just want to label me; had to give a diagnosis for insurance purposes but everything is vague and I'm wondering why most think telling too much (or clients reading their clinical notes) would damage the relationship. What made you think differently from the majority?
@@stephE80 I think a lot of therapists are cautious to tell too much or share their notes because they believe that they know where the therapy will go, and that they should shield the client from that. That, or they don't think highly of their clients and that is reflected in the notes. Both of these approaches come from paternalism. I don't claim to know where we're going - instead, I think that we're mutually agreeing on what topics we're discussing and how we approach these topics, but I don't claim to have knowledge about everything that will come up. At least, these are my intentions which I do my best to follow. What made me think differently? Well, I was harmed by people in power, and now it's my desire to critique and subvert my own authority whenever possible through transparency and accountability so that I don't reproduce this harm. Unfortunately I can't totally get rid of my power, such is the nature of the systems that we operate in. The long term goal is to radically transform society to rid us of the possibility to use power to do harm. If you'd like to hear me talk more about this topic, I have a few videos that might interest you. Specifically, I think this one gets at this subject: czcams.com/video/oB4q7yWwRrs/video.html
@@cometogether thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience, too bad a system that's supposed to help people can cause more harm. I do wonder why so many therapists think that way; maybe it's reparenting of neglect and trauma? And another question, if therapists resent their clients so much, why do they remain in this field? I'm going to watch your video.
@@stephE80 Yes a lot of therapists operate from a position of their own trauma. They stay in the field because it can sometimes be lucrative and also because it gives them a consistent source of power and validation
Honestly if they can be legally used in court against you, then you should have access to them. It's not a collaborative relationship when epistemic injustice occurs. It just mimics toxic family dynamics
This one was very interesting I took a look at my medical notes and went back to when I was young and found out I had anxiety back then and no one helped me instead they were saying things that were unkind about a child who was displaying that their family was dysfunctional and abusive. In that sense it was very interesting to go back and see how long I had these symptoms.
I once considered having my files before my own eyes as well. I was a lot younger then and the process seemed overwhelming given my mental state. I haven’t thought about it much in recent years, and something spiritually keeps pulling me away from taking that dive. I know once I open Pandora’s Box that it cannot be closed.
There are some good ones. And some bad ones. Part of it is about finding someone you feel you can learn from and who is genuine and wise. When you get a bad sense, check it out with them, see how they respond, and then you have your answers.
I think it's similar in US as UK, but in UK we have the General Data Protection Act 2018. If the notes are "filed" then you probably have a right to see them (it's not always clear though). If they're simply personal handwritten notes they may not have to show you, but since they contain "special category data" (formerly "special sensitive data") they have an obligation to keep them secure, and that usually means filing them somewhere, which usually means you have a right to access them (but it's not always obvious). At any rate psychotherapists have to register with the Information Commissioners Office (data protection) because they're handling personal data. Ideally clients should ask for their privacy policy at the start and ask for access to their future notes in writing. Due to their Indemnity Insurance they have to keep them for 7 years, and their Member orgs have rules also.
LOVE YOU DAN '' TAKE THESE BROKEN WINGS AND LEARN TO FLY '' . LOVE YOUR ORIGINAL VIDEO. FIRST SAW IT SOME YEARS AGO IN A CENTER PARC IN NOTTINGHAM FOREST. A WORLD CONFERENCE OF THE HEARING VOICES MOVEMENT. YOU MOVIE DOCUMENTARY VIDEO MADE A VERY BIG IMPACT. BLESS YOU DAN FOR YOUR GGOD WORK
Both of my parents are abusive (narcissistic father en autistic mother). They have both physically and mentally abused me. I don’t have friends right now and the friendships I used to have was just because I made myself the funny fat girl. I was always the third wheel and never fully respected. I was rejected by all my love interests. Almost all my family lives 3000km away from me and I’m not in touch with them because they see me as the black sheep. They don’t like how I am openly depressed because it means that I actually comes from a disfunctional family and they don’t want to admit that. I have no energy to work or study because my basic human need of being loved and sharing love with just one single human being isn’t being met. I’m not perfect but I know I am a good person. I told my therapist how I wished that just one of my love interested would have loved me back and how that would have changed and still would change my entire life. Later I read that she wrote this about me in her notes: thinks that somebody owes her love. It was so sad to read. I mean, don’t I? Don’t I deserve to be loved by just 1 person? Should I find myself worthless, should I just accept and agree with nobody loving me. Or many therapist writing stuff like: is not in touch with her own emotions. I told them: I cry everyday and my whole body hurts because I feel everything so intensely. But I’m obviously not going to cry in front of a therapist that I just met?? And they still went on with: no we need to work on you not feeling your emotions. As if the way they viewed me was more valid then how I viewed myself. After 5 years I finally found a decent coach, other then that I have been hurt and even traumatized with therapist.
Im sorry to hear that. Yes a child needs the love of their parents. If they cant love their own child, they shouldnt be making a baby in the first place. I wish you all the best on the way of your healing journey.
The therapist fired you??? I have never heard of this. Hete in Germany, the only time that would happen would be if the patient physically harmed the therapist. And I can't imagine you doing that. Thanks for sharing your story. I was quite glad to find this video I haven't listened to.
I think as we move forward we will have to change all of our systems to be person- centric instead of system- centric. A person is not a problem to solve. A being is not a resource. Side note: the way a therapist writes these notes probably reveals the pathologies of the therapists more fully than those of the client Proposal: proforma official notes in the file drawer but for actual purposes two paper journals. The therapist using one, the client using the other, and the client owns and keeps both. No notes would give evil people carte blanche to abuse vulnerable people.
TY so much for talking about this topic. I'm finally decoding my bizarre life as a Ret 33yr Psych Nurse in Sarasota & USAVet FORSCOM HQ Chaplain Assistant who recently found out my Exhubby from here admitted he was CIA Minister at death, then his 2nd wife's house was burned down. I wasted so much time in Therapy through the yrs with Therapists whose sons were Schizophrenic & they kept me focused on my battles with Nurse Managers harassing me in Psych Hospitals instead of healing my trauma from public druggings & rapings here. I was Pt Advocate type Nurse who spoke up about injustice, so I was bullied by management alot. They'd fire me, but I'd come back later, bwahaha. Being Foster Mom to Serial Killer Victim's son also brought me to many Family Therapy sessions with Foster Son in Drug Rehabs around Florida. With new CIA connections Intel, I can only imagine how uncomplementary my Therapy notes were to justify whatever Gov Ops seem to be trying to do to cover me up.
I think that a new Psychotherapy Specialist could be created to guide interested clients to the most appropriate treatment modality. Since I began therapy many years ago, many new forms/schools of thought have been created to treat specific mental health issues. Certainly new clients are not prepared to determine appropriate treatment for themselves. Does such a Specialist exist? I wonder if a client could be screened during one or two sessions? A Specialist would need to know about most treatment modalities and have enough experience to quickly diagnose client symptoms. This way, Medical Clinics could refer their interested clients to the Specialist, rather than blindly referring them to a local, yet unknown therapist/counselor. I fired the woman to whom I was referred, after during my second appointment. The "therapist" called her staff and said she was stuck in a carwash and would require another hour before she could arrive! There are too many newly licensed people in new practices. I think the Mental Health field needs to become better organized in order to facilitate clients' need for help.
Daniel, this is very meaningful work. Well done. Not only have you deconstructed the corporate, capitalist model of inauthentic exchange embodied in conventional psychotherapy but meaningfully, reflexively made connections to your own culpability...and vulnerability. This is also why psychotherapy with any other field other than social worker is inherently flawed; workers are trained to process reflexively what they are told whereas other professions are not and other professions' codes of ethics are actually harmful compared with, for example, the IFSW's code of ethics, the most cutting edge and socially just code of ethics found anywhere. I know your point was not to draw attention to this but nonetheless you have. I also appreciate your cluing into your embodied awareness and how you say you still have lots of work to do. Don't we all?
Social workers use the DSM to label everyone "mentally ill" for insurance purposes, which has the potential for a lot of harm. The DSM is not valid or scientific. These "disorders" are created and voted into existence. Social workers rarely tell a person that simply crossing the threshold into their office necessitates a "diagnosis" which brands a person as somehow abnormal is what they are going to be doing to them by coming to see them. Sometimes, a lot of stressors in a person's life, is what brings someone to a counselor of some sort. To label everyone "mentally ill", is very problematic. Can't see that social workers have high ethics and are a safe place to go when feeling distress, given that they are a part of this system and label people- as the system requires them to do if they want a job and to be paid.
Hi, thanks a lot for sharing ! It’s helpful and valuable 🙏 compared to everything else out there. Very honest and transparent. Can you please do a video on advice for people who want to help others, who are gifted but don’t want to go through mental health educational and conventional traumas and also not be harassed by conventional mental health practitioner because we are not “licensed”. What are your opinions on this?
For years after finishing analysis I would find myself sitting in Central Park, only to realize that I was looking directly at my analyst's office. It occurs to me now that a therapist's notes are inevitably more about the therapist than the client...
Hi Daniel. I found your sharing really clarifying and helpful. I recently came across another CZcamsr called Anna Runkle, aka crappy childhood fairy, who is neither a therapist or psychiatrist, but her content on CZcams resonates so much in me. I wonder what you think of her "techniques", if they are truly helpful in your opinion?
I'm not Daniel, and I'm not sure he follows coaches on CZcams - I'm not a degreed psychologist, but I've watched Crappy Childhood from time to time and find her honest, authentic, insightful and useful. In fact, there are lots of talented creators on CZcams. I frequently watched many similar videos on CZcams while I treated myself. (And cured) It took forever, though!
It's seeming the more i listen to his videos, he burnt out because of the system, and him really wanting to be honest in life. Anyone else seeing this????
@@kirstinstrand6292 after caring for my parents until the end, and experiencing the horrors of that, I also was injured by an epidural injection. Now I'm completely in fear of the whole medical field.
@@waitaminute2015 after being injured by “modern” medicine, it’s a fear but it’s not unfounded…. I now research as much on my own as possible everything and find health/healing through food/fasting/supplements/good sleep, Sun, movement as best I can (I was injured by an epidural too… my survival story proves that self-research works… they gave me no hope and I found it myself.) Fear of the medical establishment (whether for profit or social like the VA) is just rational/realistic. So many people are killed/injured by western medicine (even admitted to statistically and it’s likely a massive underestimate) and the systems so filled w financial motive of making or saving $… but people in it (particularly doctors) can make you feel bad/wrong for even having informed questions or wanting to take the natural path as much as possible! They want blind obedience/worship :( Good doctors appreciate patients who take as much charge as they can with their health but so many doctors have ego and feel threatened. Being harmed by big med is an education money can’t buy and will inform the rest of my life so far as health care. PS~on the Ted Radio Hour (NPR) Dr. Leanna Wen discusses her fight to make financial interests of doctors transparent… based on research, docs have an over 90% likelihood of conflict of interest based on meds/procedures the recommend… so $$$$$, trips, perks, investments and other incentives. Her life was threatened many times by doctors. She could find so few doctors that wanted their patients to SEE how they personally benefited from their recommendations. I’ve noticed she’s now dropped her quest and is now let back onto mainstream media.
Well it works both ways. It's much better for a client if the therapist let's a client go when the therapist dislikes the client or can't help them because the client's issues are above the therapist's scope of education and understanding. Unfortunately, most therapists won't do that though. They let you keep coming back to them for more abuse and no progress.
I am convinced in order to qualify as a doctor or therapist, in their heart of hearts, they have to wish death and destruction upon the patient. When they have their exam with the panel I would dare to say that they get their degree by saying they want to make a lot of money and control stupid patients that are living their lives irresponsibly. I bet those that really love patients and want to provide honest, compassionate, rapid, safe, affordable solutions are medical schools', hospitals' and most importantly, insurance companies' worst nightmare.
It's tough to not agree. Early on I had seen a couple psychiatrists that were caring. Back when psychiatrists still held talk therapy office hours. But I've had nothing but really awful and re-traumatizing experiences with therapists. Very abusive, nasty people.
@@Medietos from my personal experience and observing others with chronic lyme disease.. docs could make millions, billions providing an accurate differential diagnosis and basic options / solutions ; docs leave all that money on the table and allow chronically ill patients that wish they were dead to languish; worse these patients are gas lit about their physical and mental symptoms. World wide, millions of people with lyme and co infections would have so many experiences to confirm what I am saying if they were in this thread. And I am just talking about untreated lyme infections, forget about mental illness induced by modern civilization, social media, blue lights, emfs, pesticides in food, air, water, over medicated hence emotionally stunted families, parents and teachers ... lastly statistics show medicine is either the leading cause of death as of 2020 or close to it... docs make an oath to apollo ..if you look up the bible, it mentions apollyon bringing destruction.. Did you know some hospitals and universities that teach medicine have death crow parties where docs/med students celebrate the deaths they caused in patients.. ? Don't ask why this is not mainstream news ... because people are naive, with unthinkable evil, just like pizzagate, no one would believe it.
You missed his point. Like the client or not, there's no excuse for abusing and harming a client and blatantly misinterpreting what the client says. It's unconscionable to make shit up to put in their records. Also writing about your hatred and contempt regarding a client is also inexcusable not to mention unethical. Let the client go if you feel you can't be helpful, civil or non-abusive.
Their negative feelings about the client is part of their counter transference. Good therapists and coaches should be doing their own psychoanalysis or self enquiry work with a supervisor or coach. Otherwise they will write negative things about their client because no one questions their thoughts. They are infallible in such a position otherwise. BTW I left a therapist recently when I saw his note to the billing company that said "client admitted to sleeping 10 hours" You could just charge the fee and say I missed. But the way he said it was insulting. He also started day one with "choice theory" and told me my emotions are a result of how I choose to interpret stuff. Hard to not feel entirely invalidated and lack of empathy from someone on day 1. What the heck do they teach these people in school? I do nutrition therapy and don't have official psychotherapist training and know better than that.
@@jrg305 I don't know how this stuff works especially when it comes to insurance coverage, but I wonder if the reason behind your past therapist's note was an explanation that your missed appointment was due to whatever your diagnosis was; maybe to get coverage from insurance instead of billing you for it, or perhaps to keep the insurance company from denying payments if they see you as unmotivated to complete therapy? Did you ask your therapist about these issues? I'm interested in what the conversation about hos "choice therapy", if you were able to have an open conversation about why he chose this path to begin with and what was meant by it....u think sometimes we misinterpret what is meant but not feel comfortable or safe yet to ask questions especially in the beginning of the client-counselor relationship. It seems like difficult waters to tread for both client opening up to this stranger and for therapist to be fully present and really listen with compassion and get the client to feel comfortable and eventually relaxed and trusting. I want to think therapy can be helpful but finding the right one for you can be the most difficult.
Progress notes and psychotherapy notes aren't the same. Daniel is taking about progress notes here: notes made on the patient's sessions, treatment plan and progression, goals, outcomes, etc. You won't glean much from them: they're usually written in a very general and generic way, without much detail or therapist's authentic thoughts about what he sees. Therapists are trained to write them that way because there is a possibility of insurance company requesting them if they need proof that the patient meets medical necessity for therapy (in other words, they try to see if they can get out of reimbursing the sessions) or a judge if the patient becomes involved in legal matters. Or if a patient wants them. So they should be written as dryly, as objectively, as clinically as possible. Psychotherapy notes, on the other hand, are therapist's private notes with their thoughts, feeling, musings, reflections on the therapy with the patient. These cannot be requested under any circumstance, neither do you really want to see them. Everything that you need to know about your therapy happens IN your therapy.
A big FIRE destroyed my house with all my delongings in 2021 ! Thanx to GOD, i am now ready to enter the 5D GAYA sphere ! 4D things must be discarded. Peace & love & wellcome home
I was with a therapist for 5 years and he sold his practice and all his client files. I protested and was told, “it isn’t my property and it belongs to the new owner.”
Wow. Cold.😮
I thought client files were confidential? You must be living in America haha, damn.
@@alvodin6197 Here in America profit is priority over human decency.
How is that not a violation of HIPAA?
This is what a RE Appraiser would do when selling their practice. House and land data is transferable. Not personal trauma data! Good on Daniel. ❤❤😊
Your speaking about confidentiality in this video somehow brought to mind the time I told a psychotherapist about having been sexually violated as a very young person and how he then tracked that person down, called them, and asked them about it. This therapist never asked me any details about the incident. I only learned that he had contacted this other person years after the fact, and they of course denied that it ever happened. That therapist ended up laughing in my face and mocking me for experiencing severe depression and suicidal thoughts. I cannot help but think that the notes he took contain a reflection of this breach in confidentiality, that he took down information from an abuser and stated that it was more credible than what I said about my own experience. Grisly.
what a peice of ****
How tramatizing and inappropriate, I imagine you must live in a small town, otherwise I can't imagine why someone would go to that length.
Praying for your healing
@@rienavoir8250 I thank you for saying so. It's not so hard to find a person these days because of social media. I imagine that he did all of that simply because he is sadistic, as are many in his field.
Wow so sick. But you are not alone. I've had 2 in succession who set me up to hurt me and one of them repeatedly sabotaged my personal life.
A friend of mine is gathering stories for a book , especially our stories about sexual assault and domestic violence. If you'd like to tell her your story and be included in it please let me know.
I think a record/notes from each appointment/session should be given to the client at the end of each session. Keep those evil bastards accountable.
should work that way in all health care yet they give you a receipt the client came this date, this time, there are no notes from the doctor. It should be freely given notes and all every time the client shows up.
I saw a therapist for six months, then she asked me at that point what my first name was again. Hope my 'nameless' notes are shredded by now. It's nice to know of your respect.
When I requested my notes I also recieved the notes of another person with the same name, not redacted , all their personal details. I asked for an explanation and an apology never received it
Aah! That’s the second time I’ve heard this. The first time a man received the notes of a client of the same name who had just been diagnosed with HIV and was suicidal over it…
Lawsuit for both of you! This is a HIPPA violation! I had a twin sisters once who had the same name lived in two different states and had the same letter used for their middle names yet each middle name was different!
This case lead to both women constantly in dispute with their health care as the one sister was using her other sister's benefits from states away yet also complicating it more by coming to the other sister's state and getting care as well! It was a huge issue to verify if I had the right person, we had to get bosses involved to make sure we were authenticating the right one for the right files so we could even start to say this is what we have.
The person A was so patient as they'd dealt with this for years and couldn't do much to stop the sister from impersonating her! If your provider sends your notes to anyone but you, you can sue, if you receive any notes that are not you you can sue since the provider may've leaked your info to someone else as well your side of the case isn't rock solid yet it's not something that can't be attempted if you get someone else's notes. That provider was pissing their pants trying to burn the evidence they're lucky you didn't escalate an investigation or find a lawyer.
My health care company was hacked in 2020. Private details along with all my personal numbers and info. Along with hundreds of thousands others. That felt violating and i have no recourse or ability to obtain more details about that violation. While you spoke i thought of how i would be much more comfortable if my therapy notes were paper records instead of digital and not secure.
I really appreciate your view from both perspective ‘s. The dynamic of the therapist being the emotionally unavailable harsh critic parent hit home.
Thank you for your work here Daniel.
How awful for you, - were there any consquences with your clients' data?
Then just think about something like e-health cards, where all the data are 'saved' in a cloud...
Hilarious how we are returning to the ways of old because tech is so unsecure.
Great video, thank you so much for talking about this. What I really dislike on notes from psychotherapists, psychologists and sometimes even psychiatrists is that the notes are heavily impacted by their relationship towards the client / patient. They sometimes happen to be full of inaccurate guesses and sometimes telling more about the person writing it than the person who is it supposed to be about. They also heavily rely on the state the client / patient is currently in and sometimes portraying it as the state they're in now is their usual and permanent state. Etc.
What's horrible is that it can overall negatively affect the client's / patient's care. They have the ability to portray us as complete idiots: I say "I have a rare spine disease", they write "Patient is convinced that she has some rare disease" and boom, it's messed up already, my care will be affected when this gets send out to some other professional, everyone else will believe their record more than me. As someone who's on a disability pension, this is a huge reason why I fear these evaluations and medical records. I can do my best, but if they'll want to twist things, they will and I can't do anything about it. And no one will care and I can't show my feelings about it, because there's a high risk of getting something ever worse written up there if I politely call them out - instead of correcting the record.
Also, what I found particularly interesting is that once I went to a psychologist with a diagnosis that I wasn't properly tested for, but of course a diagnosis is a diagnosis and in his paper, it seemed like he maybe tried a little bit to portray things I said in a way that it would go with the portrayal of that particular diagnosis. Then I found out few of my childhood medical records with marked neurological problems and deficits and a year later, I happened to meet with him again - and suddenly, how his whole view on me seemed to change with the information I brought! It's like they often times look at the diagnosis line more than at the person.
I often think about my various medical records in general, especially childhood ones. Where they are and how it is legal that they're the property of the doctors and therapists - and I can't fully obtain them. And I wish I could, because I apparently happen to have a genetic condition and because my parents didn't care about it that much, I don't have much info from them and I of course can't remember my early childhood. I wish I knew what was I like back then, because it could have helped me get some understanding for where I am now and it could help some of my other doctors too. So close, yet so far.
When I can read my records, I usually do so, because I want to know the reality, but I do so with hesitation and a lot of stress about what I'm going to find. Or nowadays I usually hand it out to someone very close to me and ask them to read it for themselves and then tell me if it's good or bad or how bad it actually is. Because I currently don't have the nerves for it. The medical trauma that I accummulated over the years is unlike anything else I went through. The irony of fearing what's labeled as help, because that can sometimes hurt and make things worse even more.
that's how i always felt...even when you ask them about it they'll say their notes can't effect things in the future. seems mental health professionals just assume most of us don't know what we are talking about.. like saying the spinal disease- like you need to bring in those records to prove it instead of them taken you at your word.
@@kite6864 Exactly, most of them if not every single one of them says that it doesn't affect anything... yet it too often actually does. I wonder if they simply flat out lie to not to have to explain what all it can potentially affect or if they're so out of touch with the reality of being a patient/client that they really have no idea and believe that it never affects anything. And sadly, from my experience, even if you bring as much proof as you can, they sometimes ignore it or they skim over it and say it's not significant in their opinion, one of my psychiatrist had the guts to skim over my diagnosis as a reason for my back pain and wrote somatization disorder... I sent him then all the records on the mail as I was frustrated with his behavior and I'm not even sure if he read it, all his response was bland "thanks for feedback" that didn't really sit right with me. Not even talking about the fact that not all issues and experiences can be proven as easily as a spinal disease that's luckily visible on an MRI. (The disbelief from mental health professionals is imo often a big issue and many things from experiences to mental health and neurodevelopmental conditions to even some physical conditions can't be 100% easily proven.)
@@ek7652 They directly lie. I had a ton of therapists and a psychiatrist try that with bone tumors. I literally had tumors sticking out of me and visible malformed limbs
😮💨 I can clearly imagine what my psychotherapist wrote about me. He seemed bothered by my emotional reactions, and he often suggested me medication.
All I wanted was someone to listen to me and to tell me I wasn't going crazy. I never stepped back into psychotherapy, and I never liked their infantilizing treatment ("I know better what is going on with you; you don't get better because you don't listen to me").
Betrayal trauma goes beyond just personal relationships. There is institutional betrayal trauma which many patients have experienced. It directly impacts a person's ability/desire to seek treatment. Trust issues are valid and not paranoia.
I actually had a discussion with a therapist I started seeing about therapy notes and what she includes in them as it determines the content I'm willing to discuss. She specializes in trauma and actually understood my concern. Going through the family court system, these notes can be obtained and personal information becomes available to the other parent which furthers the trauma and abuse.
It doesn't matter if you're seeking help for an issue- the focus becomes on the fact you have an issue 😒 The system is corrupt and not geared to healing.
❤🎯💯
exactly! but then withholding information sometimes gets you punished when you know deep down this person is not trustworthy. i think to myself, they will not make good use of this information that is so hard to get out of my mouth in the first place, so why bother? i feel this is understandable, and yet labeled undue paranoia. we are actually a lot of times not ALLOWED to question a doctor when mentally ill, as if your illness always negates differences in opinion of how you want to be treated. trust issues are real and people being treated in the mental health system are constantly threatened with consequences that would not help them. all that people sometimes need is compassion and understanding to jump start healing and are denied that over and over. oh how i wished to be threatened with compassion and understanding instead of hospitalization that i didn’t need.
During my time at university, they instructed us to take notes as objectively as possible and to write it in such a way that if the client read the notes, they would likely see it that way too. As a therapist you must also keep in mind that a client can request a copy of their notes at any given time so it' is in the therapists best interest also to not put negativity into it. If a therapist gets into a bad habit of doing this, it will further cloud how they view the client, leading to poor therapeutic outcomes. It is alright to formulate hypotheses in your notes but these should be formed based on the actual words the client used in conjunction with psychological theories. It is never acceptable to write your personal interpretation of the client.
Do you think requesting and reading notes from therapy sessions could be helpful or harmful to the client and the client-counselor relationship?
Very interesting topic, Daniel, and very well presented. You were too good for the industry, every client deserves a therapist such as yourself.
Agree! He is too good for the industry.
Urgh, I didn't realise therapist kept notes on clients. IMHO they should only do that if they share it with the clients and better still do it together.
Every time I get a disclosure of privacy info here in the U.S.A. I throw it out and think "what privacy?"
At least Europe has GDPR, which is somewhat helpful. Thank you again Daniel.
Safe space...
I felt like the biggest fraud being a mh therapist. Half diagnoses werent accurate, mostly just in priority view for the other Medicaid programs. You're spot on. Let's not talk on med-seeking smh!!
This is such an under discussed issue. Daniel, thank you for speaking on this topic so intelligently. I have had such a difficult time communicating ways I have felt burned by unethical / unprofessional therapists I have seen.
@@coyote9789Yes, it’s really bad and hard to find genuine caring people in my experience.
I hear you 😜😜!!!!
Ever been sexual assaulted by your practitioner during therapy? Plenty of ppl get credentials purely to access this opportunity.
Wow, this is eye-opening. Note to self: If you ever need help, go to a coach instead of a psychotherapist. Or better yet, ensure confidentiality by working it out inside yourself.
Yup. That's what I found helps more
Going to disagree here.
It’s sort of damned either way.
Coach would also have major issues. (1) Not bound by confidentiality (2) No formal training (3) No licensing board
Maybe those sound like positives, and I agree in the best case you would find someone good with a good working relationship, coach or not.
But often coaches are just trying to bypass the licensing board and do therapy anyway, or they had their license revoked already!
You have to be careful, and avoiding “psychotherapy” is not a shortcut.
And “do it alone” isn’t going to work for wounds that have to do with being alone in the first place, painful and threatening as it might be to seek out and depend on someone again.
It's the most horrible humiliation. Pure evil! Does these social workers, nurses, doctors etc. have any moral or self insight at all? Western psychiatry has a very dark and grotesque setup 💔
My therapist remembers more details about what I have said than I do. I don't see her writing notes, but she is familiar with the whole cast of characters and the timeline of everything.
Ideal situation would be clients paying out of a pocket to people who advertise themselves as a therapist, or healer or coach. I remember hearing Thomas Szasz talking about his practise. He just advertised "listening and talking".
If they have good reviews, you go. Or if you are reffered by someone you trust. Becouse all of that protective, legal stuff, from what you say, is for the benefit of the therapist usually.
As someone with a lot of past trauma that i now work with successfully i want to say that this is not the safest suggestion. A lot of self- styled helpers are "emotional porn" addicts who purposely activate people for their own entertainment or just to keep business.
@@tahiyamarome Dont you think that this would be reflected in their reviews over time?
@@michasosnowski5918 a lot pf trauma survivors don't have strong faith in their own perceptions. We can also bond w people who activate us. A good manipulator can keep us emotionally captive for a long time before we realize what's happen ing, so no. That mechanism isn't good enough
@@tahiyamarome going to school for a couple of years to pass exams and a practicum; with no therapy btw for self; any emotional porn junkie can successfully get a diploma and practice as a legit mh therapist
Which I at this point think is amusing
What is the argument _for_ taking notes on the first place? Supervision? Because, really, whoever writes it can write anything. Something being written is not proof of anything
It was distracting for me as a client watching my therapist write notes.
I remember one session especially. It is haunting. I’ll always wonder what my therapist wrote about me:(
I just write quotes or topic points. I never add my own commentary
I really enjoy these long form talks from you, Daniel. Great to just kick back and listen to.
I'm also reminded to request my former therapist's notes, because I could never tell if she was using some kind of technique on me or didn't want to engage me too much or what was going on. I suppose it could serve as a confirmation that my spidey senses weren't off.
8:16 God I really wish my therapist encouraged me to challenge him when I felt like it. The discoveries we could have made with actual mutual conversation vs top-down lecturing would have been tremendous. For anyone familiar with Stefan Molyneux's earlier work with his inner circle of listeners, IMO this was the fatal flaw that led to that whole thing blowing up. There was no mutual conversation. It was all top-down.
Gosh, as a European the American therapy system seems messed up. We write notes like "Client says x/y" and "Discussed X with client" and then write about what interventions we used. For example, "discussed the client's difficult relationship with mother" and intervention would be "Discussed the topic of parentification." Notes are never a place to write our opinions about clients.
We also use an anonymous ID code so that if someone found them they wouldn't even know who they are.
These stories about notes are horrifying!
this is illuminating to watch as a psych bachelors questioning whether i should go for masters 🤔
Ive thought about getting my therapy notes from a terrible therapist I had back in the early 2010's. The guy was awful, condescending, and when he wasnt doing that he was playing mind games and spoke in riddles. One time he was being particulaly vague and I outright asked him what he was talking about, and he told me he wouldnt tell me because it would be "pearls before swine". Looking back on it it is hilarious to think about how seriously I took him and how much I wanted to respect his opinion. I felt the same as you did about wanting to win over the parent figure thing I think. I can only be sure he wrote terrible things about me given what passive aggressive sentiments he did express. Though I am often the type of person who always wants the truth even if it hurts or has no real value to me (or is just all together pointless), I decided to spare myself this time.
I am sorry for you having to go through this....sad when someone abuses their power on purpose😢
@@rockswings I've thought about it for years and I dont think that he was abusing his authority, at least not intentionally. I think he just had a lot of his own unresolved stuff and was a very split off person in a lot of ways.
It is incredibly hard to do the job he was doing, and I think he was just in too deep with how brutal the job could be, and as a result ended up numbing out a lot of his clients stuff that was either too much for him or hit too close to home with his own unconscious, unresolved, split off issues.
I recommend Daniel's "patients who are healthier than there therapists" video, I think it sums up a lot of what was going on pretty well.
I took it to a whole new level i was recording the sessions without consent as a client but when he knew i did record he flipped his shit and asked to delete the old records i told him therapy isnt cheap and i wanted to gain maximum value from these sessions and its about my life not his and the records didn’t violate his privacy but he prohibited using the voice recorder after the discussion we had in the future sessions so I stopped going to therapy because my issues matters and i wanted a therapist who would actually fucking listen and care when i feel that the session is all about the money and no value so i can talk for 45 minutes and we just forget everything after we go through our day and forget most of what we talked about afterwards i would say with absolute certainty n therapy did me more harm than good
The value I gained from listening to these records was nothing i wasnt seen i i wasnt heard I didn’t even know what was the problem he didnt diagnose or gave me answers or the perspective about my identity / anxiety/ shame i was confused my life was better without it
You did the absolute right thing. I do it too
I sure wish I could obtain the notes about me from the therapist who sent me to a psych center for four months when I was 16. Along with all the notes from the several counselors, nurses, other doctors…and random people I had to speak with every day lol. I know they’re long gone though that was in the 80s.
I offer my notes to all my clients at the outset of our relationship, so that if they want I can send the notes over right after I write them. A lot of people say yes, but not everyone. Sometimes the notes can become an important part of our relationship: they get to see how I'm thinking about things and that can open up new conversations. It also holds me accountable because I know they are looking. I hear what you are saying about not taking notes at all, it's certainly a risk if the wrong people read them, but for me they're important as if I weren't taking notes it'd be hard to reflect on progress over time.
Wow I like that, seems it would be nice to know for feedback and what direction the therapy sessions are going....I asked a counselor what he thought about things once and he carefully gave me an answer but it was vague and it seemed like he didn't want to give too much information. The good thing is that he doesn't just want to label me; had to give a diagnosis for insurance purposes but everything is vague and I'm wondering why most think telling too much (or clients reading their clinical notes) would damage the relationship. What made you think differently from the majority?
@@stephE80 I think a lot of therapists are cautious to tell too much or share their notes because they believe that they know where the therapy will go, and that they should shield the client from that. That, or they don't think highly of their clients and that is reflected in the notes. Both of these approaches come from paternalism.
I don't claim to know where we're going - instead, I think that we're mutually agreeing on what topics we're discussing and how we approach these topics, but I don't claim to have knowledge about everything that will come up. At least, these are my intentions which I do my best to follow.
What made me think differently? Well, I was harmed by people in power, and now it's my desire to critique and subvert my own authority whenever possible through transparency and accountability so that I don't reproduce this harm. Unfortunately I can't totally get rid of my power, such is the nature of the systems that we operate in. The long term goal is to radically transform society to rid us of the possibility to use power to do harm.
If you'd like to hear me talk more about this topic, I have a few videos that might interest you. Specifically, I think this one gets at this subject: czcams.com/video/oB4q7yWwRrs/video.html
@@cometogether thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience, too bad a system that's supposed to help people can cause more harm. I do wonder why so many therapists think that way; maybe it's reparenting of neglect and trauma? And another question, if therapists resent their clients so much, why do they remain in this field? I'm going to watch your video.
@@stephE80 Yes a lot of therapists operate from a position of their own trauma. They stay in the field because it can sometimes be lucrative and also because it gives them a consistent source of power and validation
Honestly if they can be legally used in court against you, then you should have access to them.
It's not a collaborative relationship when epistemic injustice occurs. It just mimics toxic family dynamics
This one was very interesting I took a look at my medical notes and went back to when I was young and found out I had anxiety back then and no one helped me instead they were saying things that were unkind about a child who was displaying that their family was dysfunctional and abusive. In that sense it was very interesting to go back and see how long I had these symptoms.
I once considered having my files before my own eyes as well. I was a lot younger then and the process seemed overwhelming given my mental state. I haven’t thought about it much in recent years, and something spiritually keeps pulling me away from taking that dive. I know once I open Pandora’s Box that it cannot be closed.
Doors are meant to be closed so that new opens will open. 😮
Therapist seems like a nearly impossible job.
There are some good ones. And some bad ones. Part of it is about finding someone you feel you can learn from and who is genuine and wise. When you get a bad sense, check it out with them, see how they respond, and then you have your answers.
Honestly I wish the field was like you. I could actually use someone who empowers and respects patients
I think it's similar in US as UK, but in UK we have the General Data Protection Act 2018. If the notes are "filed" then you probably have a right to see them (it's not always clear though). If they're simply personal handwritten notes they may not have to show you, but since they contain "special category data" (formerly "special sensitive data") they have an obligation to keep them secure, and that usually means filing them somewhere, which usually means you have a right to access them (but it's not always obvious). At any rate psychotherapists have to register with the Information Commissioners Office (data protection) because they're handling personal data.
Ideally clients should ask for their privacy policy at the start and ask for access to their future notes in writing.
Due to their Indemnity Insurance they have to keep them for 7 years, and their Member orgs have rules also.
LOVE YOU DAN '' TAKE THESE BROKEN WINGS AND LEARN TO FLY '' . LOVE YOUR ORIGINAL VIDEO. FIRST SAW IT SOME YEARS AGO IN A CENTER PARC IN NOTTINGHAM FOREST. A WORLD CONFERENCE OF THE HEARING VOICES MOVEMENT.
YOU MOVIE DOCUMENTARY VIDEO MADE A VERY BIG IMPACT. BLESS YOU DAN FOR YOUR GGOD WORK
Both of my parents are abusive (narcissistic father en autistic mother). They have both physically and mentally abused me. I don’t have friends right now and the friendships I used to have was just because I made myself the funny fat girl. I was always the third wheel and never fully respected. I was rejected by all my love interests. Almost all my family lives 3000km away from me and I’m not in touch with them because they see me as the black sheep. They don’t like how I am openly depressed because it means that I actually comes from a disfunctional family and they don’t want to admit that. I have no energy to work or study because my basic human need of being loved and sharing love with just one single human being isn’t being met. I’m not perfect but I know I am a good person. I told my therapist how I wished that just one of my love interested would have loved me back and how that would have changed and still would change my entire life. Later I read that she wrote this about me in her notes: thinks that somebody owes her love. It was so sad to read. I mean, don’t I? Don’t I deserve to be loved by just 1 person? Should I find myself worthless, should I just accept and agree with nobody loving me. Or many therapist writing stuff like: is not in touch with her own emotions. I told them: I cry everyday and my whole body hurts because I feel everything so intensely. But I’m obviously not going to cry in front of a therapist that I just met?? And they still went on with: no we need to work on you not feeling your emotions. As if the way they viewed me was more valid then how I viewed myself. After 5 years I finally found a decent coach, other then that I have been hurt and even traumatized with therapist.
Im sorry to hear that.
Yes a child needs the love of their parents. If they cant love their own child, they shouldnt be making a baby in the first place.
I wish you all the best on the way of your healing journey.
@@h1ghnezz thank you that means a lot to me !
You are right. I will go as far as saying "You are owed love"
Another great video! Thanks, Daniel.
Really nice to have a longer format, I really appreciate being able to really sink in the video
Grateful for you sharing your thoughts!
The therapist fired you??? I have never heard of this. Hete in Germany, the only time that would happen would be if the patient physically harmed the therapist. And I can't imagine you doing that.
Thanks for sharing your story. I was quite glad to find this video I haven't listened to.
Thank you for the important insights
I think as we move forward we will have to change all of our systems to be person- centric instead of system- centric.
A person is not a problem to solve. A being is not a resource.
Side note: the way a therapist writes these notes probably reveals the pathologies of the therapists more fully than those of the client
Proposal: proforma official notes in the file drawer but for actual purposes two paper journals. The therapist using one, the client using the other, and the client owns and keeps both.
No notes would give evil people carte blanche to abuse vulnerable people.
This is all very true and very concerning.
Brilliantly argued. This would be revolutionary.
TY so much for talking about this topic. I'm finally decoding my bizarre life as a Ret 33yr Psych Nurse in Sarasota & USAVet FORSCOM HQ Chaplain Assistant who recently found out my Exhubby from here admitted he was CIA Minister at death, then his 2nd wife's house was burned down. I wasted so much time in Therapy through the yrs with Therapists whose sons were Schizophrenic & they kept me focused on my battles with Nurse Managers harassing me in Psych Hospitals instead of healing my trauma from public druggings & rapings here. I was Pt Advocate type Nurse who spoke up about injustice, so I was bullied by management alot. They'd fire me, but I'd come back later, bwahaha. Being Foster Mom to Serial Killer Victim's son also brought me to many Family Therapy sessions with Foster Son in Drug Rehabs around Florida. With new CIA connections Intel, I can only imagine how uncomplementary my Therapy notes were to justify whatever Gov Ops seem to be trying to do to cover me up.
I think that a new Psychotherapy Specialist could be created to guide interested clients to the most appropriate treatment modality. Since I began therapy many years ago, many new forms/schools of thought have been created to treat specific mental health issues. Certainly new clients are not prepared to determine appropriate treatment for themselves. Does such a Specialist exist? I wonder if a client could be screened during one or two sessions? A Specialist would need to know about most treatment modalities and have enough experience to quickly diagnose client symptoms. This way, Medical Clinics could refer their interested clients to the Specialist, rather than blindly referring them to a local, yet unknown therapist/counselor. I fired the woman to whom I was referred, after during my second appointment. The "therapist" called her staff and said she was stuck in a carwash and would require another hour before she could arrive! There are too many newly licensed people in new practices. I think the Mental Health field needs to become better organized in order to facilitate clients' need for help.
Daniel, this is very meaningful work. Well done. Not only have you deconstructed the corporate, capitalist model of inauthentic exchange embodied in conventional psychotherapy but meaningfully, reflexively made connections to your own culpability...and vulnerability. This is also why psychotherapy with any other field other than social worker is inherently flawed; workers are trained to process reflexively what they are told whereas other professions are not and other professions' codes of ethics are actually harmful compared with, for example, the IFSW's code of ethics, the most cutting edge and socially just code of ethics found anywhere. I know your point was not to draw attention to this but nonetheless you have. I also appreciate your cluing into your embodied awareness and how you say you still have lots of work to do. Don't we all?
Social workers use the DSM to label everyone "mentally ill" for insurance purposes, which has the potential for a lot of harm. The DSM is not valid or scientific. These "disorders" are created and voted into existence. Social workers rarely tell a person that simply crossing the threshold into their office necessitates a "diagnosis" which brands a person as somehow abnormal is what they are going to be doing to them by coming to see them. Sometimes, a lot of stressors in a person's life, is what brings someone to a counselor of some sort. To label everyone "mentally ill", is very problematic. Can't see that social workers have high ethics and are a safe place to go when feeling distress, given that they are a part of this system and label people- as the system requires them to do if they want a job and to be paid.
Great points. I completely agree
Super great video
Hi, thanks a lot for sharing ! It’s helpful and valuable 🙏 compared to everything else out there. Very honest and transparent. Can you please do a video on advice for people who want to help others, who are gifted but don’t want to go through mental health educational and conventional traumas and also not be harassed by conventional mental health practitioner because we are not “licensed”. What are your opinions on this?
Well told
Treatment/experience with healing anhedonia? Detachment from others?
Nice video
interesting and specific topic
For years after finishing analysis I would find myself sitting in Central Park, only to realize that I was looking directly at my analyst's office. It occurs to me now that a therapist's notes are inevitably more about the therapist than the client...
Hi Daniel. I found your sharing really clarifying and helpful. I recently came across another CZcamsr called Anna Runkle, aka crappy childhood fairy, who is neither a therapist or psychiatrist, but her content on CZcams resonates so much in me. I wonder what you think of her "techniques", if they are truly helpful in your opinion?
I'm not Daniel, and I'm not sure he follows coaches on CZcams - I'm not a degreed psychologist, but I've watched Crappy Childhood from time to time and find her honest, authentic, insightful and useful. In fact, there are lots of talented creators on CZcams. I frequently watched many similar videos on CZcams while I treated myself. (And cured) It took forever, though!
It's seeming the more i listen to his videos, he burnt out because of the system, and him really wanting to be honest in life. Anyone else seeing this????
Is there such a thing as fear of the whole medical field?
Yes, but in general I think the the medical field is based more on science. Not always, but more…
@@dmackler58 thank you
MDs are best left for emergencies. Functional medicine is where I find the neurotransmitters that keep me healthy.
@@kirstinstrand6292 after caring for my parents until the end, and experiencing the horrors of that, I also was injured by an epidural injection. Now I'm completely in fear of the whole medical field.
@@waitaminute2015 after being injured by “modern” medicine, it’s a fear but it’s not unfounded…. I now research as much on my own as possible everything and find health/healing through food/fasting/supplements/good sleep, Sun, movement as best I can (I was injured by an epidural too… my survival story proves that self-research works… they gave me no hope and I found it myself.) Fear of the medical establishment (whether for profit or social like the VA) is just rational/realistic. So many people are killed/injured by western medicine (even admitted to statistically and it’s likely a massive underestimate) and the systems so filled w financial motive of making or saving $… but people in it (particularly doctors) can make you feel bad/wrong for even having informed questions or wanting to take the natural path as much as possible! They want blind obedience/worship :( Good doctors appreciate patients who take as much charge as they can with their health but so many doctors have ego and feel threatened. Being harmed by big med is an education money can’t buy and will inform the rest of my life so far as health care.
PS~on the Ted Radio Hour (NPR) Dr. Leanna Wen discusses her fight to make financial interests of doctors transparent… based on research, docs have an over 90% likelihood of conflict of interest based on meds/procedures the recommend… so $$$$$, trips, perks, investments and other incentives. Her life was threatened many times by doctors. She could find so few doctors that wanted their patients to SEE how they personally benefited from their recommendations. I’ve noticed she’s now dropped her quest and is now let back onto mainstream media.
Writing these notes is not easy... Keeping them for decades is probably even harder...
The question is should those notes be a one- person activity
Daniel,
Can you please do a vid on Universe 25?
Fascinating. Never heard of this study, but searched for it. Thank you!
Interesting idea, I’ll think on it!
@Daniel Mackler it seems to be what's happening in our world today.
Daniel how can I contact you. I really need you. I am not in a good shape. I need your help and you can help. Please reach me if you read msg. Please.
I hope u read my msg
He doesn't do this anymore. You'd need to get lucky and find someone that's practicing and is competent/cares
He has stopped being a therapist
Therapists get to fire their clients?
Well it works both ways. It's much better for a client if the therapist let's a client go when the therapist dislikes the client or can't help them because the client's issues are above the therapist's scope of education and understanding. Unfortunately, most therapists won't do that though. They let you keep coming back to them for more abuse and no progress.
I am convinced in order to qualify as a doctor or therapist, in their heart of hearts, they have to wish death and destruction upon the patient. When they have their exam with the panel I would dare to say that they get their degree by saying they want to make a lot of money and control stupid patients that are living their lives irresponsibly. I bet those that really love patients and want to provide honest, compassionate, rapid, safe, affordable solutions are medical schools', hospitals' and most importantly, insurance companies' worst nightmare.
They are merchants of death, and there are pathetically few exceptions.
It's tough to not agree. Early on I had seen a couple psychiatrists that were caring. Back when psychiatrists still held talk therapy office hours. But I've had nothing but really awful and re-traumatizing experiences with therapists. Very abusive, nasty people.
what?
LOL
@@Medietos from my personal experience and observing others with chronic lyme disease.. docs could make millions, billions providing an accurate differential diagnosis and basic options / solutions ; docs leave all that money on the table and allow chronically ill patients that wish they were dead to languish; worse these patients are gas lit about their physical and mental symptoms. World wide, millions of people with lyme and co infections would have so many experiences to confirm what I am saying if they were in this thread. And I am just talking about untreated lyme infections, forget about mental illness induced by modern civilization, social media, blue lights, emfs, pesticides in food, air, water, over medicated hence emotionally stunted families, parents and teachers ... lastly statistics show medicine is either the leading cause of death as of 2020 or close to it... docs make an oath to apollo ..if you look up the bible, it mentions apollyon bringing destruction.. Did you know some hospitals and universities that teach medicine have death crow parties where docs/med students celebrate the deaths they caused in patients.. ? Don't ask why this is not mainstream news ... because people are naive, with unthinkable evil, just like pizzagate, no one would believe it.
insanity
Isn't it expecting too much that therapists should "like" their patients?
You missed his point.
Like the client or not, there's no excuse for abusing and harming a client and blatantly misinterpreting what the client says. It's unconscionable to make shit up to put in their records. Also writing about your hatred and contempt regarding a client is also inexcusable not to mention unethical. Let the client go if you feel you can't be helpful, civil or non-abusive.
I think at the minimum a therapist should find something likeable, and eventually lovable, in every client.
Their negative feelings about the client is part of their counter transference. Good therapists and coaches should be doing their own psychoanalysis or self enquiry work with a supervisor or coach. Otherwise they will write negative things about their client because no one questions their thoughts. They are infallible in such a position otherwise.
BTW I left a therapist recently when I saw his note to the billing company that said "client admitted to sleeping 10 hours"
You could just charge the fee and say I missed. But the way he said it was insulting. He also started day one with "choice theory" and told me my emotions are a result of how I choose to interpret stuff. Hard to not feel entirely invalidated and lack of empathy from someone on day 1. What the heck do they teach these people in school? I do nutrition therapy and don't have official psychotherapist training and know better than that.
@@jrg305 I don't know how this stuff works especially when it comes to insurance coverage, but I wonder if the reason behind your past therapist's note was an explanation that your missed appointment was due to whatever your diagnosis was; maybe to get coverage from insurance instead of billing you for it, or perhaps to keep the insurance company from denying payments if they see you as unmotivated to complete therapy? Did you ask your therapist about these issues? I'm interested in what the conversation about hos "choice therapy", if you were able to have an open conversation about why he chose this path to begin with and what was meant by it....u think sometimes we misinterpret what is meant but not feel comfortable or safe yet to ask questions especially in the beginning of the client-counselor relationship. It seems like difficult waters to tread for both client opening up to this stranger and for therapist to be fully present and really listen with compassion and get the client to feel comfortable and eventually relaxed and trusting. I want to think therapy can be helpful but finding the right one for you can be the most difficult.
@@jrg305must be an existential therapist
Progress notes and psychotherapy notes aren't the same. Daniel is taking about progress notes here: notes made on the patient's sessions, treatment plan and progression, goals, outcomes, etc. You won't glean much from them: they're usually written in a very general and generic way, without much detail or therapist's authentic thoughts about what he sees. Therapists are trained to write them that way because there is a possibility of insurance company requesting them if they need proof that the patient meets medical necessity for therapy (in other words, they try to see if they can get out of reimbursing the sessions) or a judge if the patient becomes involved in legal matters. Or if a patient wants them. So they should be written as dryly, as objectively, as clinically as possible. Psychotherapy notes, on the other hand, are therapist's private notes with their thoughts, feeling, musings, reflections on the therapy with the patient. These cannot be requested under any circumstance, neither do you really want to see them. Everything that you need to know about your therapy happens IN your therapy.
I disagree. Notes show more about the therapy than anything within the session. I go by actions not word
A big FIRE destroyed my house with all my delongings in 2021 ! Thanx to GOD, i am now ready to enter the 5D GAYA sphere ! 4D things must be discarded. Peace & love & wellcome home