I feel therapy for me was mostly negative and re-traumatizing. After 15 years of seeing different therapists, I developed a phobia of therapy. I don't want to go back there, at all. I found a life coach in the Netherlands who's way more helpful than all the therapists I've seen combined. For one simple reason: I can relax with her, I can finally let my guard down because she's not judging me or attacking me and she really listens. I feel like letting out a huge sigh of relief. I think looking outside North America was a good move. I feel there's something deeply wrong around here, we suck really badly when it comes to mental health.
are you dutch? does dutch healthcare cover the costs for the life coach? do you meet in person? i am just asking cause i have been looking into this myself for a long time but havent taken the leap because of costs and being afraid for it to fail (like therapy). i would appreciate any more insight! thank you!
@@Kittysuit I'm Canadian, we're talking through WhatsApp. It does cost a lot since the Canadian dollar isn't doing so great these days. But I consider it better to pay more for something that works rather than pay less for something that's counter-productive. Wherever you look, I suggest you try to find somebody who understands CPTSD. It's the most useful concept I came across in 15 years, and it's pretty much what Daniel has been saying since forever. At last, it seems some healers are catching up.
I am from the Netherlands and moved to the States because I was so deeply traumatized by the therapists there in The Netherlands, and also by the culture and people there in general
I am someone who was diagnosed with BPD 2 years ago and have spent a lot of time with therapist(s) and psychiatrist(s) since. Your descriptions of these professions is very accurate and I empathize greatly with your process of self discovery and healing trauma. The biggest steps forward for me happened in moments of isolated grief, where the pain was so unbearable, then suddenly it was as if a light went off. I was able to see why I was feeling so much pain. The problem was not solved in that moment, simply identified, at least partly. Thank you for your videos and your courage to upload, your voice carries meaningful words from a caring soul, and they are well received. Thank You.
@@LunaSky381don’t get stuck on a name of a diagnosis that someone came up with. Remember, keep growing, keep on keeping on.. you are as well and happy and content as you want to be. But it IS hard work; every moment to moment; day to day. And some days, get tired, and don’t feel like doing much! Tell yourself, it’s okay. Because it is okay. ❤
Lots of “experts” have issues (ethical, emotional) but are blinded to their own issues because of a sense of superiority/status that label affords them in a capitalistic/expert/authoritarian style culture and governance. An expensive label not just to those they consider below them but to themselves and their own insight and introspection. It’s rare (and precious) to find experts without ego.
Sadly therapists are just flawed human beings, like the rest of us. They may have more knowledge, but that doesn't automatically make them more advanced or emotionally mature, as knowledge is purely intellectual. Brilliant explanation, as usual🌺
That is why therapists should not only have a degree but also do inner work before being able to be recognised as therapist. I do not even understand how therapists feel professional without going to therapy themselves. It shows a lack of maturity from there
@@instagib5085 i agree but normal medical doctors are not punished most of the time. It is difficult to prove that they do not help people with chronic problems for example and do not search for a diagnosis. I have been through medical abuse and lack of professionalism and they are untouchable actually
I have actually found that survivors tend to be more knowledgable than therapists....I have had to educate therapists about narcissistic personalities and I have found it exhausting. I have felt it was more therapeutic in feminist spaces to talk about my traumas (which pertain a lot to women's issues in general,) where I was met with therapy and understanding, verses therapists who know how to label and observe and describe my experiences like a grocery check off list "he was asserting dominance over you." Wow, thanks for putting a language to my experience! but then she would (it was a psychologist i was seeing,) would just me for having never been with anyone romantically... like I don't care how knowledgable a person is, if they don't understand or have empathy, then their education is nothing more than a privilege and they have no real skill set. I had to do what therapists do (understand patterns in people's behavior, predict moods, etc,) because my father was a literal sociopath and I needed these skills to survive.
The reason this former psychotherapist is more knowledgeable than most therapists is applied experience combined with knowledge. I don't think therapists who have not experienced oppression and abuse know anything really, its like a doctor that acts like their hour lecture compares to you actually having suffered from said condition for 20 years.
Unmet needs create fussy babies. Everyone's issues are unique and relationships are subjective. There's no way for a therapist to heal every fussy baby. Many people seeking help are still hiding the truths from themselves, graduating through the labels and lashing out. Impossible job.
I’m sure your clients liked you for more than just being a professional in a suit. You cared and tried to put your own feelings aside to do your best for them.
Daniel, the mental energy you put into therapy made you quit it! Therapists who got the money and didn't do their job very well are probably still in practice!
This one is tricky and very timely. I’m about to end my relationship with my therapist for these very reasons. I even called him out once for the potentiality of cult-like dynamics in a separate weekly group therapy session. I understand how easy it can be to blur these lines, but I’ve come to understand that nothing is more potent than intuition, and mine has consistently told me that there is something off in the dynamics.
Absolutely agree about intuition. I've been in therapy for seven months (3 times a week) which I should have quit after the first session because of various issues I immediately spotted but I went against my intuition and mostly fought with my therapist wasting my energy and money. I thought I was doing the right thing not quitting (because I didn't want to be a quitter and I didn't want to make decisions based on my emotions). Throughout that period I had several dreams in which my therapist was depicted by my subconscious as exploitative but I ignored them because they were just dreams. But finally I made the decision to quit on the spur of the moment and I left in the middle of a session and I've been getting better and better since. It's as if I regained my agency and my sense of self-worth because I finally chose to trust my guts rather than play intellectual games with my very ”skillful” Ericksonian therapist.
Same. Sometimes I wonder if we are in a simulation/we all vibrate at similar frequencies lol, because this came at the exact right time for me too... I need to fire my therapist, I need a note from her first though, then will cut ties.It is painful, I spent 2 years with her wanting to start emdr but never getting there because she lacks the humility to acknowledge and apologize when she is projecting or being invalidating.
Thank you for saying this out loud. I have tried therapy before and could not sit with it for this same reason. Then dated a therapist for ten years only to learn they are more messed up than most clients they have. They don't even look at themselves. It is one of the saddest things I have witnessed
Whenever I learned about transference in class (did not end up as a practitioner) it was spoken of in a romantic context. Interesting to hear about the mother/father projection.
I feel that very few people actually have the capacity to be a therapist! Yet many feel they are doing a good job.... this is disconcerting to me how little aware and professional most therapists are. There is such a lack of depth and inner questionning, it is everwhere!
@@thanksagainforthetea agree, just not seeing the cool part in it... since many honest people and young ones are traumatised and deeply damaged in such a world, which cannot change deeply anyway with a non questioning majority. The world can change costumes and in appearance but never evolve with a majority lacking depth and self introspection, I do not find it cool
@@thanksagainforthetea i'm at peace with myself thanks! I just do not believe this is what life is.... there is much more and it is not here, sharing it with psychopath and unconscious people refusing to self introspect. even though I'm now happy and with a loving partner and free from my past, there is far too much suffering here for others for it to be called life... we are in a jail here actually and I now managed to live well in this jail (even though I still; have some physical consequences from past trauma) but it is still a jail full of narcissits and unconscious people, this is the fact which won't change. So I'm aiming to move away as I die... I'll check the book though, thank you
Most of counselling community is too enamoured with themselves to help their patients/clients. I had a supervisor who had put into her contract that supervisees had to give her feedback after every session. Fine when I was a student counsellor on placement. I saw just it as a self reflective exercise. But it became boring to ‘butter her up’. I realised it was something else. She complained that I wasn’t committed enough to giving her feedback. After that experience I stopped practicing. You have made sense of why I cannot/will not go back into it. TY
@@hcf555 I challenge you to find your truth. I do not understand. As clients, we learn, we are responsible for our own selves. How come a therapist cannot place your own self as a client, and follow/do the same? A human is a human. Regardless the job we hold. If we went around making decisions (quitting our jobs) based on others actions, how are we being responsible for our own self? I understand growing out of the job; burning out; wanting to make a change and feeling frustration. I worked 30 years in 1 field. I’m trying to change to a different field now. I’ve learned about myself. I’ve grown. I’ve paid my dues. But I cannot let the system, nor others run me. (Edit) Even if working as a therapist, hire own therapist to work on own issues/challenges. Being a driver, doesn’t mean you are the one driving all the time. Sometimes, someone else drives you places. Be honest with yourself. Find your truth. Wishing you the best going forward.
My therapist projected what she believes is happiness and fulfillment Onto me, which is having a husband and children. Would also undermine my trauma and read while I was talking and then gaslight me about it My father sexually abused me and Threatened me against expedience romance and I told her I was sad I didn't experience that. I wish I had experienced it when I was experiencing dissociative amnesia, like the previous abuse never happened, and that i was "saved" in a way... I want to heal from limerence and romantic obsession... only I can save myself.. when I told her about my limerence for someone I had a bit of an enmeshed flirtationship with but was never actually with/briefly dated, she perked up and said it was healthy... She ignored me and perked up and said romance could happen at any age. Like I’m traumatized, I don’t want a bf… I was prevented from having experiences because my father did not want me to experience love and happiness and considered me his object/supply. I sought therapy because this is traumatizing, they all seriously undermine the trauma of being objectified and suggest partnership, as if I am not vulnerable to being abused again due to trauma. I agree, therapy is about healing and knowing yourself and EVERY therapist I’ve worked with has projected that I need a bf or a husband. And I’m coming to them with trauma from male violence. That is really unhealthy to be suggesting When I told her she devalued me as a person, she wasn’t a fan. Word salad, denial, blame shifting… I won’t be working with her again. A lot of them are. She got super defensive, denied the distracted behavior and when i said "I don't believe you" said its because I talk too much, and gave me word salad, denying saying "I don't believe x," after admitting she believed the family system is fullfulling. This is the same system that traumatized me. Saying "I am a person, and I am sitting in front of you. " In regards to her reading and looking on her computer while I am talking, triggered her rage. Like me being a person activated her shame. There was some transference. i felt I needed to make this relationship work, she at one point said she liked me/looked forward to working with me and looked uncomfortable and away as she said it, when I stated that her looking away and reading while I was talking caused me to feel devalued. She IS like my narc mother/ reminds me of her lol; gaslighting, misogynistic and projecting, doesn't like me, finds me annoying, and I find myself self sabotaging and am so anxious to work with her i have to get high before sessions... I personally think a good therapist focuses on the somatic and intellectual aspect equally. Some therapists undermine somatic experiences, that is what every invalidating and judgemental therapist has done to me, seriously not understood how much pain you are in when you are seeking care, they simply lack empathy. I am at a point where I know this is a reflection of her, but I have severe ptsd and do need therapy.... I hate that you can only find therapists who work with your specific issues if you are willing to pay, and that is even a gamble. A lot of therapists have unresolved issues and are enmeshed and unfulfilled outside of others and want validation from their patients. I don't know I just have bad luck but so many therapists are narcissistic.
I trained in Person-Centred Psychotherapy in the UK and we only touched on theories such as transference/ counter-transference because it's not really included as a concept within the modality...so you can guess how interesting that was when transference actually occurred with clients. Us trainees were floored by it and had no idea how to deal with it. Fun times. Don't practice any more!
I experienced that nasty counter-transference thing from my own therapist once upon a time. Once I finally got myself extricated from that situation, I vowed never to do therapy again because that exact thing left me with such a bad feeling. I would not want to go through that again.
This is a gem! I think therapists do the best they can with the info they're trained with, which is sorely inadequate... so pharma can push their prescriptions? No that can't be. Understanding myself to heal myself was a lot harder than it should have been. A lot of what's posed as psychology is topical sociology, it seems to me. Things like chronic hurt/trauma or neglect are trivialized so cathartic expression can't happen as efficiently. Keep up the good work. Anyways... Thank you
Have you considered returning to have your own private practice? It sounds like you have a deep understanding of people and not taking their projections personally which is a huge skill that is overlooked in the counseling field. You can help many if you manage the biz yourself and in your own way to help people have faith in therapy.
Thinking about transference - if someone asked me about the "transference neurosis" off the top of my head I would say that the most important aspect of transference is the way in which a child ATTACHES to the most significant parent - usually the mother, yet if she is emotionally unavailable it could be the father. A good way to access many important issues of childhood is to look into Attachment Therapy on the internet - CZcams has several talented and degreed psychologists. It's a good place to begin exploring one's self. I'm not a degreed therapist - I fixed myself over a period of self isolation lasting several years. Also, it's important to understand that these attachment styles will typically show up in all contacts with friends and strangers. They began and were modeled to us in childhood. This is why resolving or working with attachment issues will be a door opener for many, leading to better relationships or to further self discovery.
Spot on. I’m still trying to understand some things my therapist did. If anything was counter transferred it was dismissive and aggravated feelings for me. So, once again, my job to figure it all out.
This is such a good explanation. I trained as an integrative psychotherapist, and I wonder how many psychotherapists are required to undergo psychotherapy while training. I did, 7 years of it. I qualified at the age of 60. It was going to be my second career. However, I didn't go on to practise for the exact same reasons you gave up.
I've noticed a shadow aspect to why people become therapists is that they love being healthier and more secure than their clients, and love telling people what to do and being right. Which honestly, is probably a normal human thing, but ideally a good therapist would be self aware enough to see that about themselves...
Thank you for exposing the dynamics of transference. It explains why I have never found a helpful therapist. The level of awareness and self reflection necessary on the part of the therapist, to remain objective, is profound. No wonder you burned out. I'm glad you escaped the profession. Yet, still, your basic nature is to help others, hence you make these podcasts which are helping thousands.
One has to be pretty astute just to seek out a therapist (usually of the psychoanalytic variety) who considers transference in the therapy. One will categorically not find this on Psychology Today's therapist listings, nor are they likely accept insurance. Many psychologists have been operating as "coaches" long before it became a thing on social media.
Daniel, please write a book on your philosophy of therapy. Your thoughts on the process are so refreshing and inspiring. In any case, I'll be watching as many of your videos as I can as I work toward becoming a therapist.
I never experienced a strong transference with any of the therapists I encountered. Daniel is so correct. Therapists are not trained to interact with their clients in order to utilize that tool! Transference gets further complicated because until we start pulling apart our lives we typically do not understand whether the most difficult parent is MOM or DAD 😬 What if BOTH are unwell. What if the problems originated with your mom - and your therapist is MALE, or vise versa? One must be very much in tune with subtle conflicts that were experienced in childhood. Sounds impossible, doesn't it? 🤣🙃 😭 Theoretical approaches to wellness is wonderful on paper...Oh, how I wish reality was perfect. 💙
Wow I recently saw this concept on Wikipedia while writing an essay for college, I really couldn’t understand it by just reading it. This is a great explanation!
9:12 thank you! Wow! This is why you are a great robust therapist! Agree. The job of a therapist, coach, is facilitating the growth of each individual/client. Again, you are right💯 they did not have the capacity. Thank you so much for being truthful!
Daniel Mackle should be as famous as Jordan Peterson. And its no surprise he is not. Jordan teaches how to become a funktional member of our (messed up) society and Daniel teaches how to look deeply within. Learning how to become a functioning member of society has its place and it important but we need more than that and thats why Daniel is such a gem
Transference is a powerful tool but few therapists know how to work with it. I had an extreme transference with my female therapist and ended up limerent. I have been seeing a male therapist for 4 years now to get rid of the trauma when she stopped therapy after I told her about my feelings for her. She could not work with it and I trusted that she could. I thought I was going to die after she "left" me. I still don't know if this therapy will help me. Sometimes I hate it.
Transference and counter-transference are the most important concepts in psychotherapy, and in relationships! My question to you is: aren’t the therapists supposed to be mentored by their therapists? Is not it the standard procedure? ( therapists talking to their mentors about their counter transference)
In France at least psychiatrists and psychologists do not have to go to therapy themselves, ever! they just need to get a degree and that's it, they are therapists recognised by society. It disgusts me such a lack of self coherence
Your honesty and transparency kills me ( not literally). I think I walked away for days thinking about when you explained how listening to so many downers of the 1st degree, you were vicariously absorbing their sad, traumatizing stories .How could that not happen if you are human? Locked in a movie theater for years seeing only heart wrenching films has got to affect you.The only alternative would be to blunt your emotional/empathic side of listening to survive that career. Still, great therapists are out there ( gotta pick carefully ) and someone needs them.Thanks for all your compassion, a lifeguard has to hang up their fins at some point.
I 100% support you not being a therapist anymore, but you truly are one of the only ones I've listened to who actually gets it 🙏 Wishing you all the best, Daniel.
Thank you, that was awesome, I’ve generally ended up setting boundaries and telling therapists about their projections and they really don’t like that. The strength to be curious in the face of exposing my denial is a real asset I bring to my coaching and seem absent from most therapists. I’ve just been recommended to check you out and I’m impressed 🙏
This is such a good video. Finally somebody is calling the therapists out. I was seeing a therapist who drove me to a psychotic episode. When I had to go to see a doctor and told them what was going on in therapy, the doctor immediately told me not to go back there. I wish I reported them but every time I spoke about what happened to me with another therapist, they were siding with the therapist blaming transference on it. No matter how bad relationship I had with my family of origin, I was never brought down to a psychotic episode!!! And I’ve never had another one ever since… Thanks Daniel for this video.
I had this same exact experience in psychoanalytic therapy. My therapist, to me, was acting like my mom because he was similar to my mom. He was very closed off. When I had transference he told me that he felt like he was walking on eggshells. He could not communicate or speak to me on a real level.
Transference is the problem that happened in EVERY close relationship that I had in my life! No wonder I've become avoidant! Not all people have the capacity to be able to self-reflect, so helping them with at least adjusting their lives would be desirable.
I agree. Daniel is clearly very intelligent and self-reflective, but it's a mistake to project this onto all people. I think there is real value in Ericksonian approaches to guide (trick?) the person into better behavior, even if it is learned from an external source rather than internal. Of course this assumes a benevolent, well adjusted therapist.
While listening to this, that song Holding Out For a Hero by Bonny Tyler started playing in my head... :) ...I appreciate that you open new doors of thought for me about all this.
❤❤❤ Not many words needed, at this point. I harbour a deep sense of respect, trust, and understanding of and for your art to heal, and the process, itself.
Thank you for talking about this. If a therapis hasn't worked on their own life and went manly to university earned degree, red books etc. without doing the work on themselves are not ready to do work with clients in my opinion. Such a person has probably understanding to some degree but the cognitive empathy is not a deep emotional empathy needed for that work with people. And when one cannot feel what is truly going on within their patient they cannot understand and may dismiss many many important clues in the sessions. And yes money is flying no matter if the therapist is helping! It becomes more harm than help. This job needs clear focus in the self and no matter what triggers may arise the therapist ist responsible for their own life and wounds. As a therapist one should be aware of those aspects within themselves and be strong enough to hold the space for their client otherwise is not on the right place as a therapist (no matter how they look, how many diplomas they have and how fancy is styled their cabinet)
Could you talk about warning signs of abuse in therapy? I had a harmful therapy experience and didn’t recognize that there were red flags until much later. I gave who I perceived to be the “expert” the benefit of the doubt. Thanks!
I think the feeling you get from Erikson and his ideas is that he and his ideas are not really there to help true and honest therapists! It’s like you can see his ideas are only perpetuating a ‘GodLike’ complex. I truly enjoy listening to you, you make me smile! It’s like you are exposing the BS… and I see you like a fly on the wall! I love that you have gathered up this knowledge and are sharing it with us! Thank you for your keen observations!
It’s really interesting to hear your perspective on idealization transference in therapy/what that felt like for you as a therapist. It feels especially poignant to me right now, as someone who is experiencing some intermittent bout of wanting to idealize their own therapist. I can definitely see how wrong it could be for a therapist to lean into that dynamic in certain ways… I do unfortunately think many therapists simply just want to bask in the glow of this idealization if/when it arises, and may subsequently either consciously or subconsciously interact with the idealization in a manner that exacerbates it for their own benefit, at the detriment of their client’s well-being. It’s enraging to think about, and I have a feeling this sort of dynamic plays out quite often in therapy, even within therapy that a client may feel is going exceptionally well.
The most ironic yet deeply insightful description of this dynamic can be found in Eric Berne where he discusses a dynamic he calls “Jee , you’re wonderful mr. Murgatroyd”
But don't you need transference so there is a referential context for relationships, or models? It seems transference in some form or another is always present under normal conditions, but that it simply doesn't manifest in a negative way much of the time. I have autism spectrum disorder and feel that part of the struggle with having it is lacking a sufficient degree of transference or modal contexts I need in order to manage my relationships. Am I misguided for seeing ASD this way?
Allowing negative transference projected at you, can affect your mental illness. It is a sort of self harm. If it is too much, i think a referal is a good idea. I feel therapists are underpaid and this is a very noble and demanding profession. Bless you Daniel! Good think you retired early. Your youtube videos are helping me clear things out. Better than sessions were people get hurt. Thank you ❤
this is a great video, daniel. I hadn't thought about trasference in a while and I agree completely about the role of psychotherapy in society being to make people fit in vs understanding themselves
Like I fucking hate the fact that I really won't be able to afford therapy till out of poverty, I rather pay top dollar after vetting out someone who shares the same basic moral principles and is rooted in reality. I feel more grounded in reality than therapists i have worked with. I end up spending so much of my time explaining to them how narcissistic personality types think. Explain i am not diagnosing but talking about patterns i have observed. It is REALLY hard to find a therapist who understands narcissistic abuse. A good therapist, I think, has goon from surviving to thriving and is here to help you thrive, I have told therapist that's what I want to do; since i was little i was interested in the healing field, then I became traumatized. Now I feel obligated to make sure others are not met with the same experience, and I don't think my therapist liked me telling her I wouldn't be working with her if I wasn't in poverty, and that I would prefer someone more skilled, compared her to other therapists I had seen, many who I did not consider competent,and what I didn't like about most therapists or what I would do differently lol. I am very conscious and self aware, i know when I am projecting and transferring, the problem is I always put in more work than the therapist who has 0 consideration of me, ironically... Good luck finding a good therapist via insurance. It is like a cult. I can't blame therapists for charging a lot however and breaking away from insurance, they have a valuable skill and service, but this system is traumatizing in and of itself, people are struggling to afford basic living (me,) and therapy shouldn't be a luxury for the rich.
It's harder than ever to find a good therapist lately. I read that it's because so many people are going to therapy now, and just like with dating, the best are taken the most quickly. It sucks but on the plus side a lot more people are recognizing they need to work on themselves and we're all starting to understand mental health problems better. I hope more people start realizing the real need for new, competent therapists and step up to become one. I've had a good one before and good ones can help so much. Sorry to hear your rough experience. I've had a couple of those, too : (.
@@Lydynthmn I had a therapist prior to my current one, get snotty and judge me for having never been with anyone... I was re-traumatized by my current therapist for suggesting I need a romantic partner and kids to be happy. It seems like a lot of women project their misogynistic belief that I am not a complete person without a man/can't be happy unless I am "securely attached to a man." I have yet to find a therapist who is actually engaged in having me grieve and process my traumas and become secure within MYSELF. I definitely am going to be much less trusting with the next therapist/I am even more scared to look now; do you know if this transference shit is based on attachment theory? I have not had a single therapist not suggest partnership to me, while completely invalidating the fact that I am traumatized by men in my own family system. I just want to heal. I see shit with "attachment theory" and yea its even harder now because there is not a lot of focus on women's issues; i even saw one on psychology today that said they work with "minor attracted people" like now pedophilia is being labeled as a fetish. How do you heal with so much medical misogyny and denial of reality? (I really would not compare this to dating... because I don't think that is how dating works at all/ew "hurry ladies! snatch him while he's single!" lol no. Most therapists flat out are not good, I don't think its because a lot of people are in therapy, its because most therapists suck. And even getting worse as women's issues are being erased as women's issues.
Sorry, that part of the video editing cracked me up. I love your authenticity and courage to speak the truth. Keep being awesome and making these exceptionally insightful videos.
As a young therapist I used to think the bad type of therapy you describe was not common, but sadly now I see it is very common. I do my best to avoid all type of transference and just have real-person to real-person interactions in therapy and in life, seems like simple common sense, but that is oh so scarce. It is not easy for most people to be aware of their own projections, but there are many ways to make it easier, that as therapists and as people we should practice and encourage (observing dreams, journaling, art, meditation...).
Thank you for this video Daniel. Your comments re analyzing yourself for the accuracy of the negative transference are very interesting. I would be interested in your comments on working with dreams - if you have any you'd like to share.
I had a friend disclose that to me when I shared with her my therapist was reading and doing other things while I was talking. That is so demoralizing I’m sorry that happened to you.
Daniel, thank you very much for talking about this topic. I think the type of transference the client experiences comes from their true nature. For instance, if you have a hateful client, they will project a negative transference. When the client is a loving person, the transference involves love. Sometimes people are traumatized because they were very loved/understood by their parents, and then when they grow up, no one else fills that void. Then when meeting a kind and open therapist, the idea of love can grow. For the therapist, it can be uncomfortable because it is unrequested, often strong love and it is hard to handle. Anyone would feel intimidated by it. Talking about the feelings involved is important because in my opinion when transference starts the client is actually exhibiting a very vulnerable moment, which also announces the end of therapy in a short term frame. The client does not feel comfortable either when experiencing transference, it is not easy to face the therapist when "unrequested love" has taken over. The cure for transference could be empathy, both parts are under pressure and kindness is a good way to close that chapter. Ultimately, the rules are clear, the client and the therapist only have a business like interaction which happens to be therapeutic. Love and hate are hard to control. Thank you for your videos; they are very useful.
I have a gruesome past and I'm in a very bad mental state (22 years old). It feels like something is getting closer and closer to me. Like as if the lights are going out and all I see is black. I went through so much in life but I couldn't get out of the cycle. There is a beautiful strength in me demanding stability and love. My patience, my intelligence, my charisma. But with every day going forward it feels like I'm in a vicious circle. I dug myself a hole. But I was forced to. It all led to that moment. I hope I can get out one day. I hope that I will have a girlfriend one day. That I can hug and kiss her one day. That we can both enjoy the sunset one day. I'm crying as I'm writing this because I don't want my innocent side to suffer anymore😢. Edit: I feel more healthy lately. A blood test revealed that I'm in a good shape. I feel like the panick inside of me is calming down. And I'm hopeful that I will be able to move out of my parent's house in the future.
Daniel, I rave to my therapist about you, and he cautioned me about abusing the word "trauma," a word I hear you use a lot. Apparently it's clinically applicable only to a vary narrow set of extreme experiences? He insisted on the term pseudo-trauma or possibly maladaptive learning experience. I'd love to hear your take on it!
An example of the transference phenomenon that Daniel is describing here can be observed in "The Iceman Interview" between Kuklinski and Park Dietz where Kuklinski says "You almost made me mad" after being challenged and Dietz skillfully guides him through his apoplectic rage that turns out to be directed at his father.
Hey Daniel! I love your approach on therapy and how you focus on a more authentic healing WITHOUT medication. Is there anyway we/I can contact you directly?
I wonder whether it would be something of interest to you Daniel but I would love to see a whole episode on your thoughts about Erickson and his therapeutic approach. I've had an experience with a therapist specialized in Ericksonian hypnotherapy and it was extremely strange because I had come to him from psychodynamic therapy (I had to quit because I moved) and I was sort of expecting our relationship to be the object of analysis but that's not what he was trained to do (I guess) so when I started pointing out various relationship dynamics he was either ignoring it or being defensive or insinuating all kinds of things. I did feel like I was in a relationship with a cult leader but rather than follow him blindly or escape, I kept challenging him and it was a waste of my time, energy and money. But it left me with great curiosity about this particular therapeutic approach and while there's a significant amount of critical literature on psychoanalysis and its ”cult leaders” such as Freud or Lacan, I can't find such in-depth analyses of Ericksonian hypnotherapy. I've watched some videos in which he himself talks about his interventions and it sounds so strange. It's as if people working with this type of therapist are supposed to put aside their own reasoning capacities, their doubts, their questions, their observations, their goals and desires and become passive recipients of ”powerful life-changing suggestions”; I believe in the power of suggestion but my therapist didn't care much about what I wanted because he knew better what was good for me and I hated it.
Milton Erickson is a fascinating character. I've read a few of his books, and also Uncommon Therapy. But...I can't say I like the guy -- it seems he was very arrogant, and also often quite conventional in his goals for clients. (And he was openly manipulative, bragged about it even.) But he was still brilliant -- and definitely a creative force. One big problem I've seen is a lot of his followers -- bad news!! I've met a couple of Ericksonian therapists I've liked, but most not. It's seemed to me that a lot of them exemplify Erickson's bad qualities but lack his good ones...
It's very saddening to hear about your experiences with therapists, after your experiences with parents. There are many hairdressers but only few are skilled. The rest will do your hair badly but then it will grow back. There are also many therapists but few of them are conscious, mature people. Once a bad therapist does your feelings wrong, it won't grow back as easily as the hair. Quite the opposite. How did you even manage to keep your common sense?? Thank you for the recording.
I wonder if you’ve ever read How To Want What You Have. It’s written by a therapist, and though I’m generally skeptical of therapists, I love this book. It’s not very well known, unfortunately, and I can’t remember how I came across it
Yeess I was waiting for this video so much. 🎉 I wonder if I should give my young therapist a chance. I transferred feelings of abandonment on my therapist. I criticised him and told him harshly that I lost trust. He is youngish (my age; early 30th) and in training but he want to keep working with me. Yet I felt also defensiveness in him in our last session. I felt abandoned during a serious suicidal crisis cause he did some big mistakes with mails and appointments and I waited for him and he didnt appear. This felt unreliable to me. He apologised once over phone but in the session he was kinda defensive and his hands were shaking. He made my borderline more responsible for my emotions than him. I ended up apologising over mail later to him cause I was afraid I have hurt him and I was so scared that he does not like me anymore. Then I was angry that I took to much of the blame on myself. I feel like I need to talk to him about his counter transferse to make this relationship good again. Which is weird and which kinda sucks but jet again....he is young, in training. Shell I give him a chance?! Until this incident he was very kind, caring and I felt like he loved me. I mean he still caring but I feel like I hit some wound of guilt in him
@jo I’m going to be honest and hopefully you can take the truth. your therapist is there to facilitate, guide you through so that you can do the work to grow your own self. They/he/she is not there to love you, dislike you, or be responsible for your decisions. His hands could be shaking from having too much coffee! Whatever goes on with the therapist is not your concern. I’m sorry I’m directing my reply to you. But if you want to see improvement, this is the only way to go. You are there to get better. His training/age/issues, is not your responsibility/ concern. Your mind must be focused on you. Only you decide for your own self. As a patient, client, do not compare yourself to him. It’s a waste of your and his time and effort. Focus on yourself. Work on your own self. How are you progressing from 1 week to the next? Are you able to see the distance from when started to where you are now? Of course, depending on how much and how badly you want to get better/ improve your life. I’ve worked so hard on myself this 1 year, it’s extremely difficult; but it’s worth it! Prayers to keep your eyes and mind on you. Hope this helps. 💚
Yes this this helps.🎉❤ I'm not sure if I'm progressing between the sessions. Some are good and some are a total waste of time. I do a lot of inventory work which seems to give me insight into my trauma. I put the pieces of my history together. In this sense some of the sessions helped a bit. Do you think it's worth it to keep trying with him?! I feel so much love/hate towards him its weird
The fallacy of “transference” is that therapy never us a blank slate, it’s a structurally abusive relationship: the controlling and the controlled, the rule maker and the follower, the oracle and the supplicant, the gush and withdrawal of love bombing.
Never ever trust someone on earth who claims to be even remotely sorted. There is no-one down here who is yet. Maybe in times gone by there have been. But not now. However, no matter how healthy someone is, once they understand pain, they can help you to look at where yours comes from. Including the pain the client feels from the therapist.
I feel therapy for me was mostly negative and re-traumatizing. After 15 years of seeing different therapists, I developed a phobia of therapy. I don't want to go back there, at all. I found a life coach in the Netherlands who's way more helpful than all the therapists I've seen combined. For one simple reason: I can relax with her, I can finally let my guard down because she's not judging me or attacking me and she really listens. I feel like letting out a huge sigh of relief. I think looking outside North America was a good move. I feel there's something deeply wrong around here, we suck really badly when it comes to mental health.
Same experience with therapy except my phobia only took 7 years. Interesting you found someone good outside the US.
are you dutch? does dutch healthcare cover the costs for the life coach? do you meet in person? i am just asking cause i have been looking into this myself for a long time but havent taken the leap because of costs and being afraid for it to fail (like therapy). i would appreciate any more insight! thank you!
@@Kittysuit I'm Canadian, we're talking through WhatsApp. It does cost a lot since the Canadian dollar isn't doing so great these days. But I consider it better to pay more for something that works rather than pay less for something that's counter-productive. Wherever you look, I suggest you try to find somebody who understands CPTSD. It's the most useful concept I came across in 15 years, and it's pretty much what Daniel has been saying since forever. At last, it seems some healers are catching up.
Yea it took me 2 years to decide in down with my current therapist because I felt so re-traumatized but had no support .
I am from the Netherlands and moved to the States because I was so deeply traumatized by the therapists there in The Netherlands, and also by the culture and people there in general
How painful is it to go to someone who have his own projection but rarely admit it because he has power over you.
So true that a lot of therapy is like a financially exploitive cult.
I am someone who was diagnosed with BPD 2 years ago and have spent a lot of time with therapist(s) and psychiatrist(s) since. Your descriptions of these professions is very accurate and I empathize greatly with your process of self discovery and healing trauma. The biggest steps forward for me happened in moments of isolated grief, where the pain was so unbearable, then suddenly it was as if a light went off. I was able to see why I was feeling so much pain. The problem was not solved in that moment, simply identified, at least partly. Thank you for your videos and your courage to upload, your voice carries meaningful words from a caring soul, and they are well received. Thank You.
I have BPD too. The grief from the abandonment and neglect is so bad :(
@@LunaSky381don’t get stuck on a name of a diagnosis that someone came up with. Remember, keep growing, keep on keeping on.. you are as well and happy and content as you want to be. But it IS hard work; every moment to moment; day to day. And some days, get tired, and don’t feel like doing much! Tell yourself, it’s okay. Because it is okay. ❤
Lots of “experts” have issues (ethical, emotional) but are blinded to their own issues because of a sense of superiority/status that label affords them in a capitalistic/expert/authoritarian style culture and governance. An expensive label not just to those they consider below them but to themselves and their own insight and introspection. It’s rare (and precious) to find experts without ego.
Well said! Thanks
Daniel u deserve to become famous , u deserve more attention than jordan peterson .
Sadly therapists are just flawed human beings, like the rest of us. They may have more knowledge, but that doesn't automatically make them more advanced or emotionally mature, as knowledge is purely intellectual. Brilliant explanation, as usual🌺
That is why therapists should not only have a degree but also do inner work before being able to be recognised as therapist. I do not even understand how therapists feel professional without going to therapy themselves. It shows a lack of maturity from there
@@instagib5085 i agree but normal medical doctors are not punished most of the time. It is difficult to prove that they do not help people with chronic problems for example and do not search for a diagnosis. I have been through medical abuse and lack of professionalism and they are untouchable actually
I have actually found that survivors tend to be more knowledgable than therapists....I have had to educate therapists about narcissistic personalities and I have found it exhausting. I have felt it was more therapeutic in feminist spaces to talk about my traumas (which pertain a lot to women's issues in general,) where I was met with therapy and understanding, verses therapists who know how to label and observe and describe my experiences like a grocery check off list "he was asserting dominance over you." Wow, thanks for putting a language to my experience! but then she would (it was a psychologist i was seeing,) would just me for having never been with anyone romantically... like I don't care how knowledgable a person is, if they don't understand or have empathy, then their education is nothing more than a privilege and they have no real skill set. I had to do what therapists do (understand patterns in people's behavior, predict moods, etc,) because my father was a literal sociopath and I needed these skills to survive.
The reason this former psychotherapist is more knowledgeable than most therapists is applied experience combined with knowledge. I don't think therapists who have not experienced oppression and abuse know anything really, its like a doctor that acts like their hour lecture compares to you actually having suffered from said condition for 20 years.
Unmet needs create fussy babies. Everyone's issues are unique and relationships are subjective. There's no way for a therapist to heal every fussy baby. Many people seeking help are still hiding the truths from themselves, graduating through the labels and lashing out. Impossible job.
I’m sure your clients liked you for more than just being a professional in a suit. You cared and tried to put your own feelings aside to do your best for them.
Daniel, the mental energy you put into therapy made you quit it! Therapists who got the money and didn't do their job very well are probably still in practice!
This one is tricky and very timely. I’m about to end my relationship with my therapist for these very reasons. I even called him out once for the potentiality of cult-like dynamics in a separate weekly group therapy session. I understand how easy it can be to blur these lines, but I’ve come to understand that nothing is more potent than intuition, and mine has consistently told me that there is something off in the dynamics.
Absolutely agree about intuition. I've been in therapy for seven months (3 times a week) which I should have quit after the first session because of various issues I immediately spotted but I went against my intuition and mostly fought with my therapist wasting my energy and money. I thought I was doing the right thing not quitting (because I didn't want to be a quitter and I didn't want to make decisions based on my emotions). Throughout that period I had several dreams in which my therapist was depicted by my subconscious as exploitative but I ignored them because they were just dreams. But finally I made the decision to quit on the spur of the moment and I left in the middle of a session and I've been getting better and better since. It's as if I regained my agency and my sense of self-worth because I finally chose to trust my guts rather than play intellectual games with my very ”skillful” Ericksonian therapist.
Same. Sometimes I wonder if we are in a simulation/we all vibrate at similar frequencies lol, because this came at the exact right time for me too... I need to fire my therapist, I need a note from her first though, then will cut ties.It is painful, I spent 2 years with her wanting to start emdr but never getting there because she lacks the humility to acknowledge and apologize when she is projecting or being invalidating.
Yay! Go you!!
Thank you for saying this out loud. I have tried therapy before and could not sit with it for this same reason. Then dated a therapist for ten years only to learn they are more messed up than most clients they have. They don't even look at themselves. It is one of the saddest things I have witnessed
Their job does not make them anything more. They are still -human.
Whenever I learned about transference in class (did not end up as a practitioner) it was spoken of in a romantic context. Interesting to hear about the mother/father projection.
I was thinking the same thing
I feel that very few people actually have the capacity to be a therapist! Yet many feel they are doing a good job.... this is disconcerting to me how little aware and professional most therapists are. There is such a lack of depth and inner questionning, it is everwhere!
@@thanksagainforthetea agree, just not seeing the cool part in it... since many honest people and young ones are traumatised and deeply damaged in such a world, which cannot change deeply anyway with a non questioning majority. The world can change costumes and in appearance but never evolve with a majority lacking depth and self introspection, I do not find it cool
@@thanksagainforthetea i'm at peace with myself thanks! I just do not believe this is what life is.... there is much more and it is not here, sharing it with psychopath and unconscious people refusing to self introspect. even though I'm now happy and with a loving partner and free from my past, there is far too much suffering here for others for it to be called life... we are in a jail here actually and I now managed to live well in this jail (even though I still; have some physical consequences from past trauma) but it is still a jail full of narcissits and unconscious people, this is the fact which won't change. So I'm aiming to move away as I die... I'll check the book though, thank you
Most of counselling community is too enamoured with themselves to help their patients/clients. I had a supervisor who had put into her contract that supervisees had to give her feedback after every session. Fine when I was a student counsellor on placement. I saw just it as a self reflective exercise. But it became boring to ‘butter her up’. I realised it was something else. She complained that I wasn’t committed enough to giving her feedback. After that experience I stopped practicing. You have made sense of why I cannot/will not go back into it. TY
Absolutely. Ironically there seems to be more messed up therapists than clients! I trained but don't practice now either.
@@hcf555 I challenge you to find your truth. I do not understand. As clients, we learn, we are responsible for our own selves. How come a therapist cannot place your own self as a client, and follow/do the same? A human is a human. Regardless the job we hold.
If we went around making decisions (quitting our jobs) based on others actions, how are we being responsible for our own self?
I understand growing out of the job; burning out; wanting to make a change and feeling frustration. I worked 30 years in 1 field. I’m trying to change to a different field now. I’ve learned about myself. I’ve grown. I’ve paid my dues. But I cannot let the system, nor others run me.
(Edit) Even if working as a therapist, hire own therapist to work on own issues/challenges. Being a driver, doesn’t mean you are the one driving all the time. Sometimes, someone else drives you places. Be honest with yourself. Find your truth. Wishing you the best going forward.
My therapist projected what she believes is happiness and fulfillment Onto me, which is having a husband and children.
Would also undermine my trauma and read while I was talking and then gaslight me about it
My father sexually abused me and Threatened me against expedience romance and I told her I was sad I didn't experience that. I wish I had experienced it when I was experiencing dissociative amnesia, like the previous abuse never happened, and that i was "saved" in a way... I want to heal from limerence and romantic obsession... only I can save myself.. when I told her about my limerence for someone I had a bit of an enmeshed flirtationship with but was never actually with/briefly dated, she perked up and said it was healthy... She ignored me and perked up and said romance could happen at any age.
Like I’m traumatized, I don’t want a bf… I was prevented from having experiences because my father did not want me to experience love and happiness and considered me his object/supply. I sought therapy because this is traumatizing, they all seriously undermine the trauma of being objectified and suggest partnership, as if I am not vulnerable to being abused again due to trauma.
I agree, therapy is about healing and knowing yourself and EVERY therapist I’ve worked with has projected that I need a bf or a husband. And I’m coming to them with trauma from male violence. That is really unhealthy to be suggesting
When I told her she devalued me as a person, she wasn’t a fan. Word salad, denial, blame shifting… I won’t be working with her again.
A lot of them are. She got super defensive, denied the distracted behavior and when i said "I don't believe you" said its because I talk too much, and gave me word salad, denying saying "I don't believe x," after admitting she believed the family system is fullfulling. This is the same system that traumatized me. Saying "I am a person, and I am sitting in front of you. " In regards to her reading and looking on her computer while I am talking, triggered her rage. Like me being a person activated her shame.
There was some transference. i felt I needed to make this relationship work, she at one point said she liked me/looked forward to working with me and looked uncomfortable and away as she said it, when I stated that her looking away and reading while I was talking caused me to feel devalued.
She IS like my narc mother/ reminds me of her lol; gaslighting, misogynistic and projecting, doesn't like me, finds me annoying, and I find myself self sabotaging and am so anxious to work with her i have to get high before sessions... I personally think a good therapist focuses on the somatic and intellectual aspect equally. Some therapists undermine somatic experiences, that is what every invalidating and judgemental therapist has done to me, seriously not understood how much pain you are in when you are seeking care, they simply lack empathy. I am at a point where I know this is a reflection of her, but I have severe ptsd and do need therapy.... I hate that you can only find therapists who work with your specific issues if you are willing to pay, and that is even a gamble. A lot of therapists have unresolved issues and are enmeshed and unfulfilled outside of others and want validation from their patients. I don't know I just have bad luck but so many therapists are narcissistic.
oh you are so coherent ! and brave can we be friends ?:)
Oh my. These are so sad. Only listen to your inner self
I trained in Person-Centred Psychotherapy in the UK and we only touched on theories such as transference/ counter-transference because it's not really included as a concept within the modality...so you can guess how interesting that was when transference actually occurred with clients. Us trainees were floored by it and had no idea how to deal with it. Fun times. Don't practice any more!
I experienced that nasty counter-transference thing from my own therapist once upon a time. Once I finally got myself extricated from that situation, I vowed never to do therapy again because that exact thing left me with such a bad feeling. I would not want to go through that again.
This is a gem! I think therapists do the best they can with the info they're trained with, which is sorely inadequate... so pharma can push their prescriptions? No that can't be. Understanding myself to heal myself was a lot harder than it should have been. A lot of what's posed as psychology is topical sociology, it seems to me. Things like chronic hurt/trauma or neglect are trivialized so cathartic expression can't happen as efficiently. Keep up the good work. Anyways... Thank you
I think that all people should learn about transference. Life would be so much better... 🙏🏻☀
Have you considered returning to have your own private practice? It sounds like you have a deep understanding of people and not taking their projections personally which is a huge skill that is overlooked in the counseling field. You can help many if you manage the biz yourself and in your own way to help people have faith in therapy.
Thinking about transference - if someone asked me about the "transference neurosis" off the top of my head I would say that the most important aspect of transference is the way in which a child ATTACHES to the most significant parent - usually the mother, yet if she is emotionally unavailable it could be the father. A good way to access many important issues of childhood is to look into Attachment Therapy on the internet - CZcams has several talented and degreed psychologists. It's a good place to begin exploring one's self. I'm not a degreed therapist - I fixed myself over a period of self isolation lasting several years. Also, it's important to understand that these attachment styles will typically show up in all contacts with friends and strangers. They began and were modeled to us in childhood. This is why resolving or working with attachment issues will be a door opener for many, leading to better relationships or to further self discovery.
Spot on. I’m still trying to understand some things my therapist did. If anything was counter transferred it was dismissive and aggravated feelings for me. So, once again, my job to figure it all out.
This is such a good explanation. I trained as an integrative psychotherapist, and I wonder how many psychotherapists are required to undergo psychotherapy while training. I did, 7 years of it. I qualified at the age of 60. It was going to be my second career. However, I didn't go on to practise for the exact same reasons you gave up.
Thank you so much for your hard work and for helping others put into words what their gut feeling is telling them ❤
8:26 thank you for showing us this moment, Daniel
I've noticed a shadow aspect to why people become therapists is that they love being healthier and more secure than their clients, and love telling people what to do and being right. Which honestly, is probably a normal human thing, but ideally a good therapist would be self aware enough to see that about themselves...
Thank you for exposing the dynamics of transference. It explains why I have never found a helpful therapist. The level of awareness and self reflection necessary on the part of the therapist, to remain objective, is profound. No wonder you burned out. I'm glad you escaped the profession. Yet, still, your basic nature is to help others, hence you make these podcasts which are helping thousands.
One has to be pretty astute just to seek out a therapist (usually of the psychoanalytic variety) who considers transference in the therapy. One will categorically not find this on Psychology Today's therapist listings, nor are they likely accept insurance. Many psychologists have been operating as "coaches" long before it became a thing on social media.
Daniel, please write a book on your philosophy of therapy. Your thoughts on the process are so refreshing and inspiring. In any case, I'll be watching as many of your videos as I can as I work toward becoming a therapist.
I never experienced a strong transference with any of the therapists I encountered. Daniel is so correct. Therapists are not trained to interact with their clients in order to utilize that tool!
Transference gets further complicated because until we start pulling apart our lives we typically do not understand whether the most difficult parent is MOM or DAD 😬 What if BOTH are unwell. What if the problems originated with your mom - and your therapist is MALE, or vise versa? One must be very much in tune with subtle conflicts that were experienced in childhood.
Sounds impossible, doesn't it? 🤣🙃 😭 Theoretical approaches to wellness is wonderful on paper...Oh, how I wish reality was perfect. 💙
Wow Daniel, big increase in subscribers lately, congrats.
Wow I recently saw this concept on Wikipedia while writing an essay for college, I really couldn’t understand it by just reading it. This is a great explanation!
"it made me feel icky!" Icky! One of my favorite words.
9:12 thank you! Wow! This is why you are a great robust therapist! Agree. The job of a therapist, coach, is facilitating the growth of each individual/client. Again, you are right💯 they did not have the capacity. Thank you so much for being truthful!
this world is one big joke. those "expert" who has to take care of people, are themselves screwed up to the bone. big LOL
Daniel Mackle should be as famous as Jordan Peterson. And its no surprise he is not. Jordan teaches how to become a funktional member of our (messed up) society and Daniel teaches how to look deeply within.
Learning how to become a functioning member of society has its place and it important but we need more than that and thats why Daniel is such a gem
Transference is a powerful tool but few therapists know how to work with it. I had an extreme transference with my female therapist and ended up limerent. I have been seeing a male therapist for 4 years now to get rid of the trauma when she stopped therapy after I told her about my feelings for her. She could not work with it and I trusted that she could. I thought I was going to die after she "left" me. I still don't know if this therapy will help me. Sometimes I hate it.
Great work, Dan!! Your contributions and interpretations are greatly appreciated!! TY
Transference and counter-transference are the most important concepts in psychotherapy, and in relationships! My question to you is: aren’t the therapists supposed to be mentored by their therapists? Is not it the standard procedure? ( therapists talking to their mentors about their counter transference)
In France at least psychiatrists and psychologists do not have to go to therapy themselves, ever! they just need to get a degree and that's it, they are therapists recognised by society. It disgusts me such a lack of self coherence
@@alexadellastella5247 abhorrent! Totally agree with you!
Your honesty and transparency kills me ( not literally). I think I walked away for days thinking about
when you explained how listening to so many downers of the 1st degree, you were vicariously absorbing their sad, traumatizing stories .How could that not happen if you are human? Locked in a movie theater for years seeing only heart wrenching films has got to affect you.The only alternative would be to blunt your emotional/empathic side of listening to survive that career. Still, great therapists are out there ( gotta pick carefully ) and someone needs them.Thanks for all your compassion, a lifeguard has to hang up their fins at some point.
I 100% support you not being a therapist anymore, but you truly are one of the only ones I've listened to who actually gets it 🙏
Wishing you all the best, Daniel.
Sounds like some pastors who practice pop psychology with their churches.
Thank you, that was awesome, I’ve generally ended up setting boundaries and telling therapists about their projections and they really don’t like that. The strength to be curious in the face of exposing my denial is a real asset I bring to my coaching and seem absent from most therapists. I’ve just been recommended to check you out and I’m impressed 🙏
This is such a good video. Finally somebody is calling the therapists out. I was seeing a therapist who drove me to a psychotic episode. When I had to go to see a doctor and told them what was going on in therapy, the doctor immediately told me not to go back there. I wish I reported them but every time I spoke about what happened to me with another therapist, they were siding with the therapist blaming transference on it. No matter how bad relationship I had with my family of origin, I was never brought down to a psychotic episode!!! And I’ve never had another one ever since…
Thanks Daniel for this video.
I had this same exact experience in psychoanalytic therapy. My therapist, to me, was acting like my mom because he was similar to my mom. He was very closed off. When I had transference he told me that he felt like he was walking on eggshells. He could not communicate or speak to me on a real level.
This was brilliant Daniel- wow. Thank you for validating my own therapeutic journey ( as well as my inner therapy)
Transference is the problem that happened in EVERY close relationship that I had in my life! No wonder I've become avoidant!
Not all people have the capacity to be able to self-reflect, so helping them with at least adjusting their lives would be desirable.
I agree. Daniel is clearly very intelligent and self-reflective, but it's a mistake to project this onto all people. I think there is real value in Ericksonian approaches to guide (trick?) the person into better behavior, even if it is learned from an external source rather than internal. Of course this assumes a benevolent, well adjusted therapist.
What a great video! Yes, these things need to be talked about more!
While listening to this, that song Holding Out For a Hero by Bonny Tyler started playing in my head...
:)
...I appreciate that you open new doors of thought for me about all this.
Daniel , brilliant as always. Thank you
Thank you Daniel. I value your thoughtful reflections on this topic. I gained new insight into my past.
❤❤❤ Not many words needed, at this point. I harbour a deep sense of respect, trust, and understanding of and for your art to heal, and the process, itself.
Thank you for talking about this. If a therapis hasn't worked on their own life and went manly to university earned degree, red books etc. without doing the work on themselves are not ready to do work with clients in my opinion. Such a person has probably understanding to some degree but the cognitive empathy is not a deep emotional empathy needed for that work with people. And when one cannot feel what is truly going on within their patient they cannot understand and may dismiss many many important clues in the sessions. And yes money is flying no matter if the therapist is helping! It becomes more harm than help. This job needs clear focus in the self and no matter what triggers may arise the therapist ist responsible for their own life and wounds. As a therapist one should be aware of those aspects within themselves and be strong enough to hold the space for their client otherwise is not on the right place as a therapist (no matter how they look, how many diplomas they have and how fancy is styled their cabinet)
You are So ethical!
The piece about part of the projection being accurate is so important. Not seeing this for a long time caused so much confusion.
Could you talk about warning signs of abuse in therapy? I had a harmful therapy experience and didn’t recognize that there were red flags until much later. I gave who I perceived to be the “expert” the benefit of the doubt. Thanks!
@@thanksagainforthetea brilliant tip
I think the feeling you get from Erikson and his ideas is that he and his ideas are not really there to help true and honest therapists! It’s like you can see his ideas are only perpetuating a ‘GodLike’ complex. I truly enjoy listening to you, you make me smile! It’s like you are exposing the BS… and I see you like a fly on the wall! I love that you have gathered up this knowledge and are sharing it with us! Thank you for your keen observations!
Could you please elaborate which Erikson is discussed here? Eric Erikson or Milton Erikson?
What’s your perspective on Eric Berne?
It’s really interesting to hear your perspective on idealization transference in therapy/what that felt like for you as a therapist.
It feels especially poignant to me right now, as someone who is experiencing some intermittent bout of wanting to idealize their own therapist. I can definitely see how wrong it could be for a therapist to lean into that dynamic in certain ways… I do unfortunately think many therapists simply just want to bask in the glow of this idealization if/when it arises, and may subsequently either consciously or subconsciously interact with the idealization in a manner that exacerbates it for their own benefit, at the detriment of their client’s well-being.
It’s enraging to think about, and I have a feeling this sort of dynamic plays out quite often in therapy, even within therapy that a client may feel is going exceptionally well.
The most ironic yet deeply insightful description of this dynamic can be found in Eric Berne where he discusses a dynamic he calls “Jee , you’re wonderful mr. Murgatroyd”
WHEW!!!! You said a lot!!! ❤❤
He packs a lot in a concise way. I watch each of his videos at least a couple times because I know I missed stuff.
Daniel, I consider you a visionary.
Another excellent insight as always
Your videos are gold
Well said, well put, totally accurate
I wish you still worked as a therapist and could at least be my neighbor! Your honesty is rare in this world.
This was really helpful. Thank you
Fantastic video thankyou!!
So well said ❤
Another outstanding video!
Your explanation reminds me of some similar experiences before and now, I am capable of making sense of them. Thank you for this sharing.
My experience with therapists in America has been pretty atrocious.
Needed this video another great one Daniel . Ty for your content
So nicely exclaimed.
I appreciate the information you’re providing us, especially on this topic
This is really helpful!
Amazing insight
This one is really thoughtful and insightful.
I really appreciate you Daniel... Thank you for this video....
Excellent analysis.
But don't you need transference so there is a referential context for relationships, or models? It seems transference in some form or another is always present under normal conditions, but that it simply doesn't manifest in a negative way much of the time. I have autism spectrum disorder and feel that part of the struggle with having it is lacking a sufficient degree of transference or modal contexts I need in order to manage my relationships. Am I misguided for seeing ASD this way?
Thank God Im not the only one. The SAME thing just happened to me with my therapists. I understand you !!
Allowing negative transference projected at you, can affect your mental illness. It is a sort of self harm. If it is too much, i think a referal is a good idea. I feel therapists are underpaid and this is a very noble and demanding profession. Bless you Daniel! Good think you retired early. Your youtube videos are helping me clear things out. Better than sessions were people get hurt. Thank you ❤
this is a great video, daniel. I hadn't thought about trasference in a while and I agree completely about the role of psychotherapy in society being to make people fit in vs understanding themselves
Like I fucking hate the fact that I really won't be able to afford therapy till out of poverty, I rather pay top dollar after vetting out someone who shares the same basic moral principles and is rooted in reality. I feel more grounded in reality than therapists i have worked with. I end up spending so much of my time explaining to them how narcissistic personality types think. Explain i am not diagnosing but talking about patterns i have observed. It is REALLY hard to find a therapist who understands narcissistic abuse. A good therapist, I think, has goon from surviving to thriving and is here to help you thrive, I have told therapist that's what I want to do; since i was little i was interested in the healing field, then I became traumatized. Now I feel obligated to make sure others are not met with the same experience, and I don't think my therapist liked me telling her I wouldn't be working with her if I wasn't in poverty, and that I would prefer someone more skilled, compared her to other therapists I had seen, many who I did not consider competent,and what I didn't like about most therapists or what I would do differently lol. I am very conscious and self aware, i know when I am projecting and transferring, the problem is I always put in more work than the therapist who has 0 consideration of me, ironically... Good luck finding a good therapist via insurance. It is like a cult. I can't blame therapists for charging a lot however and breaking away from insurance, they have a valuable skill and service, but this system is traumatizing in and of itself, people are struggling to afford basic living (me,) and therapy shouldn't be a luxury for the rich.
It's harder than ever to find a good therapist lately. I read that it's because so many people are going to therapy now, and just like with dating, the best are taken the most quickly.
It sucks but on the plus side a lot more people are recognizing they need to work on themselves and we're all starting to understand mental health problems better. I hope more people start realizing the real need for new, competent therapists and step up to become one. I've had a good one before and good ones can help so much.
Sorry to hear your rough experience. I've had a couple of those, too : (.
@@Lydynthmn I had a therapist prior to my current one, get snotty and judge me for having never been with anyone... I was re-traumatized by my current therapist for suggesting I need a romantic partner and kids to be happy. It seems like a lot of women project their misogynistic belief that I am not a complete person without a man/can't be happy unless I am "securely attached to a man." I have yet to find a therapist who is actually engaged in having me grieve and process my traumas and become secure within MYSELF. I definitely am going to be much less trusting with the next therapist/I am even more scared to look now; do you know if this transference shit is based on attachment theory? I have not had a single therapist not suggest partnership to me, while completely invalidating the fact that I am traumatized by men in my own family system. I just want to heal. I see shit with "attachment theory" and yea its even harder now because there is not a lot of focus on women's issues; i even saw one on psychology today that said they work with "minor attracted people" like now pedophilia is being labeled as a fetish. How do you heal with so much medical misogyny and denial of reality? (I really would not compare this to dating... because I don't think that is how dating works at all/ew "hurry ladies! snatch him while he's single!" lol no. Most therapists flat out are not good, I don't think its because a lot of people are in therapy, its because most therapists suck. And even getting worse as women's issues are being erased as women's issues.
LOL. At 8:25 Daniel becomes a ventriloquist! :)
Sorry, that part of the video editing cracked me up. I love your authenticity and courage to speak the truth. Keep being awesome and making these exceptionally insightful videos.
As a young therapist I used to think the bad type of therapy you describe was not common, but sadly now I see it is very common. I do my best to avoid all type of transference and just have real-person to real-person interactions in therapy and in life, seems like simple common sense, but that is oh so scarce.
It is not easy for most people to be aware of their own projections, but there are many ways to make it easier, that as therapists and as people we should practice and encourage (observing dreams, journaling, art, meditation...).
Exactly how I felt.
Thank you for this video Daniel. Your comments re analyzing yourself for the accuracy of the negative transference are very interesting. I would be interested in your comments on working with dreams - if you have any you'd like to share.
I had a female therapist that used to fall asleep during sessions while I was laying there talking.
just sayin'
I had a friend disclose that to me when I shared with her my therapist was reading and doing other things while I was talking.
That is so demoralizing I’m sorry that happened to you.
Daniel, thank you very much for talking about this topic. I think the type of transference the client experiences comes from their true nature. For instance, if you have a hateful client, they will project a negative transference. When the client is a loving person, the transference involves love. Sometimes people are traumatized because they were very loved/understood by their parents, and then when they grow up, no one else fills that void. Then when meeting a kind and open therapist, the idea of love can grow. For the therapist, it can be uncomfortable because it is unrequested, often strong love and it is hard to handle. Anyone would feel intimidated by it. Talking about the feelings involved is important because in my opinion when transference starts the client is actually exhibiting a very vulnerable moment, which also announces the end of therapy in a short term frame. The client does not feel comfortable either when experiencing transference, it is not easy to face the therapist when "unrequested love" has taken over. The cure for transference could be empathy, both parts are under pressure and kindness is a good way to close that chapter. Ultimately, the rules are clear, the client and the therapist only have a business like interaction which happens to be therapeutic. Love and hate are hard to control. Thank you for your videos; they are very useful.
I have a gruesome past and I'm in a very bad mental state (22 years old).
It feels like something is getting closer and closer to me. Like as if the lights are going out and all I see is black.
I went through so much in life but I couldn't get out of the cycle. There is a beautiful strength in me demanding stability and love. My patience, my intelligence, my charisma.
But with every day going forward it feels like I'm in a vicious circle. I dug myself a hole. But I was forced to. It all led to that moment.
I hope I can get out one day. I hope that I will have a girlfriend one day. That I can hug and kiss her one day. That we can both enjoy the sunset one day.
I'm crying as I'm writing this because I don't want my innocent side to suffer anymore😢.
Edit: I feel more healthy lately. A blood test revealed that I'm in a good shape.
I feel like the panick inside of me is calming down. And I'm hopeful that I will be able to move out of my parent's house in the future.
cool! ⭐️
Daniel, I rave to my therapist about you, and he cautioned me about abusing the word "trauma," a word I hear you use a lot. Apparently it's clinically applicable only to a vary narrow set of extreme experiences? He insisted on the term pseudo-trauma or possibly maladaptive learning experience. I'd love to hear your take on it!
Hi Jason -- maybe this video expresses my answer to your question... czcams.com/video/qRyWxmwqerc/video.html Wishing you the best! Daniel
An example of the transference phenomenon that Daniel is describing here can be observed in "The Iceman Interview" between Kuklinski and Park Dietz where Kuklinski says "You almost made me mad" after being challenged and Dietz skillfully guides him through his apoplectic rage that turns out to be directed at his father.
Hey Daniel! I love your approach on therapy and how you focus on a more authentic healing WITHOUT medication. Is there anyway we/I can contact you directly?
I wonder whether it would be something of interest to you Daniel but I would love to see a whole episode on your thoughts about Erickson and his therapeutic approach. I've had an experience with a therapist specialized in Ericksonian hypnotherapy and it was extremely strange because I had come to him from psychodynamic therapy (I had to quit because I moved) and I was sort of expecting our relationship to be the object of analysis but that's not what he was trained to do (I guess) so when I started pointing out various relationship dynamics he was either ignoring it or being defensive or insinuating all kinds of things. I did feel like I was in a relationship with a cult leader but rather than follow him blindly or escape, I kept challenging him and it was a waste of my time, energy and money. But it left me with great curiosity about this particular therapeutic approach and while there's a significant amount of critical literature on psychoanalysis and its ”cult leaders” such as Freud or Lacan, I can't find such in-depth analyses of Ericksonian hypnotherapy. I've watched some videos in which he himself talks about his interventions and it sounds so strange. It's as if people working with this type of therapist are supposed to put aside their own reasoning capacities, their doubts, their questions, their observations, their goals and desires and become passive recipients of ”powerful life-changing suggestions”; I believe in the power of suggestion but my therapist didn't care much about what I wanted because he knew better what was good for me and I hated it.
Milton Erickson is a fascinating character. I've read a few of his books, and also Uncommon Therapy. But...I can't say I like the guy -- it seems he was very arrogant, and also often quite conventional in his goals for clients. (And he was openly manipulative, bragged about it even.) But he was still brilliant -- and definitely a creative force. One big problem I've seen is a lot of his followers -- bad news!! I've met a couple of Ericksonian therapists I've liked, but most not. It's seemed to me that a lot of them exemplify Erickson's bad qualities but lack his good ones...
It's very saddening to hear about your experiences with therapists, after your experiences with parents. There are many hairdressers but only few are skilled. The rest will do your hair badly but then it will grow back. There are also many therapists but few of them are conscious, mature people. Once a bad therapist does your feelings wrong, it won't grow back as easily as the hair. Quite the opposite. How did you even manage to keep your common sense?? Thank you for the recording.
for real.. I never want to lose my hair dresser LOL, he is one of the few who knows how to cut thin hair.
I wonder if you’ve ever read How To Want What You Have. It’s written by a therapist, and though I’m generally skeptical of therapists, I love this book. It’s not very well known, unfortunately, and I can’t remember how I came across it
Yeess I was waiting for this video so much. 🎉 I wonder if I should give my young therapist a chance. I transferred feelings of abandonment on my therapist. I criticised him and told him harshly that I lost trust. He is youngish (my age; early 30th) and in training but he want to keep working with me. Yet I felt also defensiveness in him in our last session. I felt abandoned during a serious suicidal crisis cause he did some big mistakes with mails and appointments and I waited for him and he didnt appear. This felt unreliable to me. He apologised once over phone but in the session he was kinda defensive and his hands were shaking. He made my borderline more responsible for my emotions than him. I ended up apologising over mail later to him cause I was afraid I have hurt him and I was so scared that he does not like me anymore. Then I was angry that I took to much of the blame on myself. I feel like I need to talk to him about his counter transferse to make this relationship good again. Which is weird and which kinda sucks but jet again....he is young, in training. Shell I give him a chance?! Until this incident he was very kind, caring and I felt like he loved me. I mean he still caring but I feel like I hit some wound of guilt in him
@jo I’m going to be honest and hopefully you can take the truth. your therapist is there to facilitate, guide you through so that you can do the work to grow your own self. They/he/she is not there to love you, dislike you, or be responsible for your decisions. His hands could be shaking from having too much coffee! Whatever goes on with the therapist is not your concern.
I’m sorry I’m directing my reply to you. But if you want to see improvement, this is the only way to go. You are there to get better. His training/age/issues, is not your responsibility/ concern. Your mind must be focused on you. Only you decide for your own self. As a patient, client, do not compare yourself to him. It’s a waste of your and his time and effort. Focus on yourself. Work on your own self.
How are you progressing from 1 week to the next?
Are you able to see the distance from when started to where you are now?
Of course, depending on how much and how badly you want to get better/ improve your life.
I’ve worked so hard on myself this 1 year, it’s extremely difficult; but it’s worth it! Prayers to keep your eyes and mind on you. Hope this helps. 💚
Yes this this helps.🎉❤ I'm not sure if I'm progressing between the sessions. Some are good and some are a total waste of time.
I do a lot of inventory work which seems to give me insight into my trauma. I put the pieces of my history together. In this sense some of the sessions helped a bit. Do you think it's worth it to keep trying with him?!
I feel so much love/hate towards him its weird
The fallacy of “transference” is that therapy never us a blank slate, it’s a structurally abusive relationship: the controlling and the controlled, the rule maker and the follower, the oracle and the supplicant, the gush and withdrawal of love bombing.
unless youve already discussed countertransference it would be interesting to hear your thoughts
Never ever trust someone on earth who claims to be even remotely sorted. There is no-one down here who is yet. Maybe in times gone by there have been. But not now.
However, no matter how healthy someone is, once they understand pain, they can help you to look at where yours comes from.
Including the pain the client feels from the therapist.