Happened to me. It was what made me realize that the "authority" we give people in positions of medical power is almost religious in our society. Just because some jerk in a white coat or a therapists office tells you something doesnt mean its fact. It was a terrible wake up call. I learned from that exp that they cant really heal you, they are just tools for you to use to heal yourself.
Doctors abused me and traumatized me for life hundreds of time. 50% of medical professionals are criminals and sadists of all flavors and types. I’ve met the good ones. They are rare and take effort to find.
I was diagnosed with Depersonalisation Derealization Disorder and was given Antidepressants and Antipsychotics along with Therapy. Being a curious person by nature, I learned everything about my disorder, the Medications, etc.(I’m a Med student as well) and was eager to discuss with my therapist. Being disassociated most of the time, I’m very good at analyzing my past trauma without showing any emotions which led to the therapist thinking I’m faking it. I challenged her statement and provided arguments that contradicted her opinions (past sexual assault, neglect and loneliness) and she just said that I’m a fucking PSYCHOPATH. I instantly quit therapy, tapered off the meds and got clean and one year later, I’m much better off. Really bad experience with a clueless therapist.
I've had many bad therapists, but one who stood out the most was a man I had therapy with when I was 13/14 years old. At the time I was in foster care, and the workers of the group home I lived in were incredibly abusive. When I told this therapist what was going on, he said this couldn't be true, because otherwise the place would have been closed by the government a long time ago. So he tried to make me believe I was delusional and paranoid. I asked him why he thought that and he said "because paranoid people believe that everyone is bad and trying to harm them." I told him I don't believe that. "See, that's exactly what a paranoid person would say, so that proves I'm right." And this just went on until I actually started to question my sanity.
Oh yeah, the foster care system couldn't possibly be that bad! Whatever mate. I don't know when this happened or what time period it was but now a days anyone with half a brain knows that more often than not foster families have a tendency to be abusive. If a biological parent can hide it, so can they
wth..... that sucks... it's like a troll but in person!! Sorry you had to experience that. This makes me think that maybe there should be a hidden surveillance camera/recorder (with a raw/unedited transcript log for the convo) in case some malpractice goes on like that.. But then, they'd probably use that against you too instead of trying to understand you 😑 the way they acted but flipped it on you speaks volumes......
@@weneedmoreconsideratepeopl4006 Brits at least can record sessions for own use without telling the therapist & if something unanticipated happens you will have evidence.
I was in therapy for eight months, but all I could afford was therapy with an intern. After eight months she told me she had learned a lot about herself and she was quitting the program. Cool.
I knew of a practice that hired therapist straight out of school. Most only had their license 6 months or less and they listed every mental disorder on their site and said they had experience in all areas. I quit going to that place
Psychotherapy has a normalizing societal function. I raised this to my therapist and she asked me to explain what I meant. I lost respect for the profession after that. You're right, it is the height if arrogance; it's not just that they think they have the answers, it's that they think they know what's best for your case so that you will fit in and function effectively in a profoundly disturbed environment. Their role is actually to make a pathologically twisted world palatable and manageable - to bend and twist a healthy response to a warped world into a pathology. If they had any normal values they would be advocating for revolution.
There's basically an entire book on this point you're making, you might enjoy checking out. It's called Against Therapy by Jeffrey Masson. He argues that therapists have almost never fought for social change (this may have been more accurate in the 80s when the book was written) and that they tend to lack any moral backbone. I liked this book because, unlike with psychiatry, you rarely see critiques of therapy. This book and Daniel's channel are the exceptions.
I found this analysis in James Hillman's books, he basically said that often the individual is "healthily" mentally ill because he healthily reacts to the illnesses of our society, lifestyle, pollution in the envinronment, sickness of workplaces and even buildings or cities. Then psychotherapy try to normalize his symptoms, to make him more adaptable to this sick world. His books have greatly open my mind and soul. I miss him. 😢😢❤
@@izdotcarter again… we’re humans lol we tax each other in all kinds of ways. If you think just because someone profits off you that they are fully conscious then good on you but it’s unrealistic. Self deception, ego, and survival all go hand in hand.
Oh god this reminds me of when I went to therapy for my anorexia and my therapist turned out to also have an eating disorder which she was completely in denial about 🤦♀️💀
I mean, good therapists usually go through shit themselves and then work through it and manage it healthily and become therapists… but, it’s not exactly something to joke around about if you aren’t really healthy yet lol
@@BrDe135 Probably most of them just figured it was a safe space. Plus lots of people who are mentally Ill become interested in psychology because it begins with understanding themselves.
Came across such a therapist and she was cruel, abrupt and unkind. She re- traumatised me regarding a childhood memory during a phone conversation. It's very dangerous
I had an awful therapist as well. She didn’t just retraumatize me, she traumatized me in whole new ways as well. She truly ruined me, I’ve never been the same, I’m not able to connect with people anymore, she ruined my life. This is the danger of allowing someone to change you in your most vulnerable state. Sometimes they can change you for the worse.
@@bxnny0374 I can completely relate to you my friend. It is a truly harrowing horrific experience. And one of the last things the therapist said to me is how smug she was... A truly unstable and manipulative woman indeed.
My wife and I went to a therapist a number of years ago and he completely shut her down mid-sentence. After the session he said he was testing her to see how she would respond, to see if she was a narcissist. He then shared how he tests / plays with people all the time outside his office. Seemed pretty sociopathic to me and my wife. We never went back. I started to get my Masters in counseling back in the 1980's and after a year realized I wasn't cut out for it. Not that I don't like helping people, but I found that so many of my professors and fellow students got into the field to figure themselves out. So much of counseling is the blind leading the blind. Occasionally there is someone who has done the hard work and come out the other side. Those people are usually the only therapists worth seeing. But good luck finding one as you won't know if you are struggling deeply yourself and they have diplomas on the wall.
I remember going to therapy for postpartum depression and the therapist telling me she was suffering from the same issues because she had just had a baby and believed she came back to work too soon. I actually ended up giving her some advice and kind words. It def happens
Sir... I don't even know what to say. You've just described a horrific experience I had with a very dysfunctional therapist. I feel so validated that someone else understands this toxic dynamic.
Great you are speaking about this. I was in mental health for 32-years and as a psychotherapist in London. Then, there was a saying that if a psychotherapist becomes healed, they can't work anymore. Jung said when we meet a new patient, our first question should be 'What have they come to teach me.'
This exists. I was raised by a Psychotherapist. I let my therapist go. She was a codependent. Also a friend of mine is a Psychotherapist. She' just left a toxic relationship and is obsessed with a person that bread crumbs her. Let's be careful people.I have had a story full of experiences with unhealed therapists. It's disheartening.
Carl Rogers spoke about this, the unsettling conclusion that in order to be the best therapist you can be the gap between the ideal and actual self must be closed and integrated. Not every therapist does this, however, some do. The ones that do and come from a history of abuse, neglect, and mental health are the best ones out there. Lived experienced healthy processed can't be taught in schools and yet is a powerful ally in helping professions.
I went to therapists that blatantly violated HIPPA, ethics and normal professional boundaries. I think it's unfortunate that narcissistic types, as well as crippled codependent therapists are allowed to practice and in doing so, harm their clients. The CZcams space is very pro-therapist and anti-client, so I really appreciate this video.
Boundaries, lol. My previous therapist prided himself on not being like other therapists. Because of my traumas, I had no idea just far he went in crossing boundaries. I couldn't tell the difference between a red flag and kindness, and he took advantage of that.
My psychiatrist always told me how “difficult” I was and at the end of my bout with her I slowly stopped taking medication without begging her for permission. She was scared of how smart and capable I was at challenging her arrogance. Once I got off of the medication she finally diagnosed me with ASD and told me I should go to another therapist who knows how to better deal with “people like me”.
This comment section is so validating. I tried so hard to take my first therapists advice. I tried to be transparent with her. I tried to tell her my concerns about being permanently dependant on antidepressants, but she acted like i was just being obstinate. I really just wanted to talk about it but every conversation became circular. Later I was feeling hurt by something a friend said to me, so i asked the therapist how i could bring my concerns to my friend and open a peaceful diologue. The therapist told me i should keep it to myself! I cried after every session. In the end she told me it seemed like i wasnt interested in her advice and we parted ways.
I’m a psych grad student. My professor is a nightmare. This lovely, balanced, Buddhist of all things screamed in my face - screamed - I mean spitting, teeth bared, vicious. Thank God there were witnesses. I’ve seen people arrested for less. Was he fired however? In any other setting, he would be. Of course not. Is he fake, unstable & scary? Yes. Two other nice details. He knows I survived domestic violence because he did a therapy session in class with me. And get this…his speciality is teach Non-Violent Communication!!! You can’t make this up. Oh eventually he’ll lose it again & be fired. Just not now. Gotta love how the corrupt protect their own. So yes, I know exactly what you’re talking about. Did he at least apologize? Of course not.
I found one good therapist out of 20 in about 20 years and what you are saying is 100% accurate. I have told therapists off and have refused to pay one who told me there was no hope for me .
This video is so true. My mother is a psychotherapist and has destroyed her relationships with every member of her extended family. Her children don't talk to her and one refuses any contact. Any honest emotional conversation with her is impossible and usually leads to rage and denial. I've given up trying 😪
I have met psychiatrists that are abusive. I realized that just like how I had realized as a child that being a preacher didn’t mean the person was healthier, being a psychiatrist didn’t automatically mean that that person was mentally stable either. I think we just assume that these archetypes of people looked to as authority figures would have it more figured out, yet some people who are actually bullies can have jobs that give them power over other people. While I do think most folks go into jobs like policing, social work, spiritual advising, coaching, psychiatric assistance, etc, to help people, some deranged folks go into the same jobs to have a sense of superiority & power. I’ve met a few very cold & cruel people that I had initially thought would be a help, to find out they were harming people. I learned you can’t ever assume that because of a person’s job title or certification, that it meant you were with a person who would automatically be kind or mentally stable. Some psychiatrists are bullies, so they obviously are not who you would want to have helping you understand mental health, as they aren’t even healthy.
Yes, the people I work with as a therapist are the healthiest most coherent and alive people I have the good luck to know because they are actively acknowledging and willing to investigate and engage with the causes of suffering we all experience. It's a privilege to be in a position to contribute to their healing, growth and, if all goes well, liberation. There are so few cultural spaces where there is the kind of permission to be human that can exist in therapy, but, yes, being in this role keeps me humble and amazed. If I ever lose that it probably means it's time for me to retire or find another job.
I agree. Its not clear what experiences he's had to have become so convinced about the existence of such evil, incompetent therapists and their motives underlying each of these premises.
I'm autistic. I spent decades trying to get help from psychologists and psychiatrists for the crippling anxiety and the depression this created. Not a single one of them recognized or diagnosed my autism. In the end it was my girlfreind who suggested it - by way of love and acceptance. So I looked into it. I watched some videos on Asperger's Syndrome / Level 1 Autism. I took some online assements that indicated a lot of autistic traits. So I asked my psychiatrist for an assement. He reffered me to a specialist, who in turn was able to recognize my autism almost immediately, and after a 4 hour marathon of questions about my childhood, adolescent and adult life, the diagnosis was made. Everything you say about psychotherapists is generally true. The arrogance in particular when challenged. It's a power thing. That really sucks for open, vulnerable people like me seeking to understand themselves better and to aleiviate the absolute torture of chronic anxiety, depression, shame, and feelings of worthlessness and hopelessness. It's a cowardly form of displacement and projection of their own pathology by hiding in the guise of a compasionate helper. Overall, my experience with psychiatry was no better, but because I wasn't doing therapy with them, less damage was done. I did gain some profound insights into myself which led to better self acceptance in psychotherphy, but it was mostly accidental. I've gained a lot more just from watching CZcams. and I mean a LOT more. Thanks for putting this out there.
Also, with autistic people, psychologists and psychiatrists often blame all difficulties and psychological problems on the autism, without considering the wider social context autistic people are living in and what their histories are with victimisation and abuse. Even when autistic people get bullied, cheated or victimised, it's appallingly common for the autistic person to be framed as the problem I.e, calling them inherently "vulnerable" without considering why they are more vulnerable, putting the autistic person through "therapy" to teach them how to blend in so they don't "give people a reason to bully them", or even in some cases excluding them from school or sending them to special schools or special ed because "the school can't handle their needs" I.e, "the school doesn't want to tackle its bullying problem and doesn't want to stand on the toes of all the parents of the kids who bullied them, instead we'll blame the autistic and warehouse them."
@@robokill387 EXACTLY. I'd say any autism "treatment" is quackery. What's needed is recognition, support, validation, and acceptance. Psychological industry's conception of autism is in the same place homosexuality was 50 years ago: "If you'd just act normal, you wouldn't be having / causing so much trouble so we have to fix you..." Pure quackery. Downright abusive, even if it is well intentioned. I was just reffered by my Kaiser Psychiatrist for Psychotheraphy for dealing with my autism diagnosis. I told him I wasn't anxious or depressed, just in "autistic shutdown" in it's aftermath. I told him that I'd had some bad experiences with psychologists over the years, and that I now had a few conditions for any new psychotherapists: 1) They must be EXPERTS in AUTISM. No generalists. I'll only see specialists from now on. 2) They must specialize in supporting autistic ADULTS. Not just children. 3) They must understand the unique challenges and needs of intellectually gifted autistic people like me. 4) ADHD expertiese - particularly the emotional impact of it - should also be an area of professional competence. 5) Ideally, the therapist will themselves be AUTISTIC. That last part is very important. Think about it: If a homosexual man is trying to come to terms with their sexuality and it's impact on their social functioning and emotional well being, what sort of therapist is better equipped to understand what the person is dealing with: A) A straight psychologist? B) A gay psychologist? When I brought this up with Kaiser's autism coordinator, she responded with " Our providers typically do not disclose their own diagnoses with patients" Well, right there I have a BIG problem. I'm disclosing MY diagnosis, and am expected to be honest and open about all aspects of my most difficult, traumatic, and private inner experences. But the person who I'm supposed to trust with this isn't required to do the same with me? Well, that right there is some high level BS. It creates an extreme power imbalance, and that imbalance is the root of most of the difficulties I've encountered in the psychotheraputic / psychopharma rackets. Arrogance combined with power over vulnerable people results in very bad things. I think disclosure of any and all mental health issues should be an absolute requirement for ALL mental health professionals. Seems pretty basic. The fact that they don't speaks to either personal shame about mental illness (bad) societal bigotry about mental illness / challenges (also bad), or worst of all, a desire to maintain the illusuion of normalacy in order to gain power over patients. The only way we'll get past this BS is through DISCLOSURE, OPENESS, and HONESTY on the part of therapists. HUMILITY should also be central to any theraputic support. A fragile suffering person has come to you for support and guidance. It's a privledge to be invited into the life of such a person as a helper. Assume you know nothing. Listen to them and validate their experiences. Work to guide and support them as they express the need - not to fix or make them "normal". From what I've seen, "normal" people are pretty miserable.
@@TheWilliamHoganExperience Hear hear! I agree with all your points here - well said! The horrid power dynamic / gross imbalance, plus the pressure on the client totally to trust the intelligence, knowledge, insights, compassion, understanding, common sense, kindness & lack of money-grabbing, reputation-boosting, narcissistic power-wielding, arrogant etc motivations of any 'therapist' is mind-bendingly ridiculous & unrealistic. Many of these qualities are not quantifiable or measurable by exams, number of years' study or books read. I particularly liked your mention of highly intelligent, informed, autistic clients being often intellectually superior to many of these 'therapists' who have no experience of or with autism, nor any specialised study & knowledge of or interest in autism. The several 'therapists' I've known socially have all been strikingly odd: bossy, opinionated, arrogant & unwilling to listen to different views from their own ... or simply not very intelligent or discerning and over-reliant on quoting trendy memes & soundbites. I wish I knew how to find anyone I could respect & trust. (Expected response: that these remarks are 'symptoms' of all sorts of subjectively-'diagnosed', non-scientifically-defined pathologies in me, which need years of 'therapy' & much expensive 'medication' - for the effectiveness of which there is no scientific backing.)
I stopped going to my therapist after she started downplaying my traumatic memories and suggesting I need to mend relations with my family, despite some very inappropriate and abusive behaviors on their part, that have happened repeatedly since I was a child up to my late 20s, when I started to seriously limit my contact with them. I feel much better now and I would be even happier if I could cut them off completely. The only reason I have not done that is because I do not have a support system outside my family of origin, sadly. But with respect to my therapist, I was grateful to her for the EMDR sessions and the help she gave with the bulk of my traumas, but I had to accept that she could not help further...
It's so messed up that we're the ones who were violated but also the ones expected to make the amends. Totally backwards and seems like gaslighting in a way to me. In any other relationship people encourage and advocate for the abused to get out and get away, but in the case of immediate family, they think we should stay in that muck. Like wtf???
Yep, one counsellor told me "you'll just have to accept your mother." Another at least helped me to see the positive and bring me into present-day with narrative therapy. I would recall something awful she did, and he'd say something like, and "look how you have overcome that" -- or, "look at how strong you are now", etc. I hated it at the time but it stuck with me going forward.
Imagine if any therapist said, "Sure, you're separated from your abusive husband now, but you need to mend relations with him." But biological family (especially parents) get a pass though even if they engage in the same (or worse) behaviors.
@@Grero which is ironic because the woman and the abusive husband *are* the child/children's family, so we have a society where parents are encouraged to break up, but then the children are never meant to remove themselves from that damage when they've grown up? insane.
I opted for self therapy after years of trying to heal with someone that would judge and tease me and seemed triggered herself when I tried to breech my childhood trauma. One of the last breaking points is when she accused me of wanting to be on government assistance for trying to figure out what was wrong with me.
I was both a client and worked at a mental health centre for a few years; over time I started observing things that disturbed me; like that the role of the psychiatrist in the system resembled a narcissistic head of a family, while the staff under them and clients were in what I called ‘’forced co-dependance’’. (I called it ‘narcissistic’ where you call it ‘lack of humility’) The psychiatrists’ word was law; the staff and clients had to defer to everything they did and said (even when there was wide disagreement), the psychiatrist dictated what was ‘reality’, (usually without having taken any kind of history from the person) and most people were gaslighted into a sort of obedient behaviorism, that was not actually lessening their suffering. I couldn’t put my finger on it at the time, but I think what I was sensing was wrong was what you say in this video about dissociating from your feelings (or other symptoms), is in no way health, and in fact the clients were still extremely uncomfortable and barely able to fake-function. My own experience of being gaslighted by the system with promises that only they could help me (false), and that I would be ok if I complied with all of their directions (false); just led to a lot of resentment and anger; but that’s probably healthy, lol I ‘woke up’ out of this cult-like mindset (I don’t use that phrase lightly) and importantly learned to respect my own feelings. the day I understood to just allow feelings to exist, and not try to ‘improve’, ie: suppress them, I felt like I had discovered a personal superpower! I also learned to respect my own judgement, and my own ability for self-care Thanks for talking about this; professionals really need to look in the mirror more
I have a serious mental illness and had a disgnostic well established after 3 years of a good psychiatrist, then i went in short term psychiatry and saw a psychiatrist who decide all to put all these three years to the trash and basicly blame me for everything wrong with me. He saw me maybe 10 minutes but he think he had me figure out that quick. Now after 25 years of this illness the first psychiatrist was right. So many psychiatrist have a god complex, yeah like you say, the narcissist head of the family
They get taught how to run their own cults and operate from this narcissistic assertive bravado where you are the loser and always wrong and they are never wrong and if they are, it is fine and they bear no responsibility for bearing some of level and standard of care.
I believe that this is what Jung alludes to when talking about someone being “possessed” by their Persona. She was possessed by the identity that her title gave her, and could not reconcile the fact that she was more than said title. I see this happening all over our society and culture today.
Same here. She controlled what I could and couldn't speak about. The pressure of this almost killed me and one day I reached out to a suicide hotline for support. When I told her I had done that in the next session she got angry and yelled at me "DO YOU FEEL SUPPORTED OR NOT!?" I just couldn't tear myself away from her unfortunately and she became very abusive after this point. I felt powerless to leave and powerless to speak up. And when I eventually did speak up she mocked me or would yell or be sarcastic. Sounds far-fetched perhaps, but sadly not. I had been housebound for years so I had no boundaries and would accept poor treatment in turn for someone to talk to.
@@itzajdmting damn man. That really saddens me that there are practicing psychologists out there who get away with behaving like that. Have you found a better one?
@@Joseph_Hamilton no...I have huge trust issues now. I've become a hermit and outcast pretty much haha... Wish I was joking. It happens. PTSD can keep you locked or frozen.... Guess I have to admit that I actually suffer from this condition now.
@@itzajdmting do you have any intention of talking to anyone in your personal life about it? Don’t let that eat you up in isolation man. I know it’s scary to trust people, but it is necessary for all of us to have some kind of relationship with someone. Isolation has only brought me suicidal thoughts and overall depression.
@@itzajdmting I will say I’m much more introverted so I do need my alone time, but also I have to keep a balance of social interaction to test my theories out. Otherwise it can become a thought loop with a tragic ending. I’m not trying to tell you what to do. Only what has helped me. I know you and I are very different people. I am sorry to hear that that person caused such a rippling affect on your psyche.
I saw a therapist for 8 weeks. It wasn’t a complete waste of time, but ultimately I got a clearer understanding of myself and situation thanks to CZcams and google. I wanted to call her many times in the following year to say “Why couldn’t you see this??”, “Why did you say that?” It is an enormous undertaking to be a psychotherapist, and like you say, at the end of the day, all we really need is someone to who will listen and genuinely care.
There's a girl from my last job I just left who scares me.. she has a degree in psychotherapy but clinged to me like a lost puppy and put mine and her job at risk. She still won't leave me alone, and I mistakenly let her know too when she first came up to me when I was visibly distressed due to the loss of my family, and she now uses what I said against me, guilt tripping me into being her friend. Wtf, I hope she never becomes one.. and I'm not the first person.
I've been terrified of psychotherapist/psychologists my whole life, I've always seen them as creepy and manipulative. I would like to think that there are good therapists, but I'm scared to put myself in a situation to find one, because manipulative people are great at hiding their nature for long periods of time. This video gives me a similar vibe. I don't know if I should listen to it. Nor do I think I should ignore it. I especially distrust therapists who've written books, they always have something to prove.
sometimes they share in books to validates others who have experienced the same trauma - yet have never had a voice to express it. Nonetheless, I agree...some also write books to have an unchallenged, agenda filled story to push onto the public. Depends who is writing it..
My experience of psychotherapists,psychoanalysts and psychiatrists is that they are inept narcissists. You have to have enough self-worth to be able to confront them and then move on. I finally found a highly qualified psychotherapist who was NOT narcissistic! He is now a professor and I still attend sessions. The previous psychoanalyst with a PhD whom I challenged and disagreed with, told me I had a persecution complex, had paranoia and was borderline! The Professor gave the diagnosis of CPTSD. That psychoanalyst was actually a cerebral narcissist who was extremely dangerous. Thankyou for your words and this channel. I am in Oz where the mental health system is in disarray. Your voice is needed globally to stop individuals who are extremely vulnerable mentally being exploited and vanquished to make some ‘therapist’ feel better about themselves.
This is really something that should be talked about during the educating of therapists. I'm glad you take the time to speak about such an important matter.
It’s not economically feasible to do that. The field of psychology and counseling attracts people with mental problems, so if these people were told they need to heal before trying to help others, the schools would lose the majority of their students so it is financially beneficial to the schools to just be quiet about it.
This is spot on, Daniel. One of my previous therapists did this to me and it created a big, big implosion, which left me "processing" it for a year and a half (which had never happened to be before in therapy). This therapist was also quite young (younger than previous therapists I had worked with), and he instructed by his supervisors to start employing interventions (which led to the implosion, etc) and I was basically told that I couldn't express myself emotionally in an honest way (for me), and that I would have to alter the way I expressed myself in order to spare his feelings (I had to protect his emotions). I guess this is what doing therapy with millennial therapists looks like? I don't like making blanket statements and I know there are plenty of millennial-aged therapists who can roll with the punches normally, but I was really shocked when this dynamic appeared. One of the worst clinical-therapy situations I ever experienced, I believe.
Recalling a therapist becoming angry and defensive when I became angry with the therapist - codependence reinforcement on not threatening someone else's image of themselves - crappy therapy. I for one, believe my healing can be faciliated by another to guide me in my own direction and that it is my job to create my own healing.
I can remember always getting that gut level suspicion that my therapist was just dragging his weight through the sessions. What a colossal waste of time that was. As always though, it's always a lesson in trusting your gut.
as a general concept, psychologists and counselors go into their fields initially because they have their own issues and they want to figure out themselves, a lot of them never figure out themselves but they get licensed anyway
Had one of these who called me inmature for being angry at an abuser who nearly took my life. An Anger that took me 45 years to build up after a lifetime of abuse from parents and relationships and that people had asked me for years why I didnt feel? She lied when I tried to end the therapy aswell saying she was the only one with psychodynamic therapy in my area which I found odd so I looked it up and voilá, a whole list of others. "One of 400" my a**. When I ended it anyway, exactly as you say in this video, because I understood and foremost felt her being extremely damaging especially since I had open wounds that were new, she tried to get me back for a "follow up" after a few months despite me unchecking the box in the signout after ending it. I felt as if she tried railing me back in against my will. She couldnt accept I walked. I'll never forget her other clients either. I've never seen such nerv wrecked people all my life; very well dressed and looked like sweet people but so destroyed in their nerves, one couldnt stand still, he kept pacing and another kept wringing her hands. This psychologist also had EMDR therapy and I cant even think about what she does to them during that. I suspect she enjoys hurting people. When I first called her, she sounded so cold and hard, just like the abuser. I suspect she was a psychopath that educated herself as a psychoogist to get paid to harm people for her own enjoyment. I instinctively KNEW that anger was helpful and a step in my healing and I was right. Anger has helped me keeping them off by startng to draw boundaries very very early on. I started searching about this, psychologists who harm patients and it seems narcissist are drawn to the occupation because they get paied to do what they love; get validation AND abuse. So its just as you say; very common. You are 100% correct. I applaud you for this video, sir.
I was a psychotherapist for 4 years. I definitely had my own therapist and supervision as a therapist. I always tried to listen more than I talked bc I realized that often the people in their life don't hear them. I always tried to ask for feedback bc if I mess something up, I definitely want to be checked. I know I was not the best therapist but I mostly focused on trying to help whoever I was seeing feel validated and I tried to bring multiple different techniques and perspectives to their situation. A lot of times when clients went to therapy, they didn't have their basic needs met due to lack of support from the government (especially in DV and SA cases). A lot of programs had a lack of funding too if they needed financial assistance. It was definitely frustrating trying to help someone when the whole system is broken. For psychiatrists, I always asked the client how they feel about medication before even suggesting it bc the last thing I want to do is push my beliefs on them. Sometimes medication is helpful, other times it is not needed. I always try other interventions first bc I am really hesitant about encouraging putting medication in people's bodies. I think grad school didn't help me much when being a therapist. I read books on how to be a therapist and I learned more from the book (The Gift of Therapy by Irvin D Yalom) than multiple classes in grad school. Having a beginner's mind was definitely important to me each time I met with a new client bc clients are people and people are so complex. Not one modality is going to work with everyone even if they have the same diagnosis. Each person is different so treatment has to be different to tailor to that person'a needs. I have tried to be my own therapist and I realized that I can't due to my own biases towards myself. I'm not a therapist anymore but I plan to practice again in the future. Your videos always got me thinking how I can be better ❤
@@goldbrick2563 Yes. I worked in community mental health agencies with high caseload and little to no support from my job. I was put in situations that were questionable and dangerous. I hated seeing people get screwed over by the government especially in cps. I plan to practice again but under my own terms, not under a corporation that exploits therapists.
@@CharissaexplainsitallXD i'm glad u will practice again. I can tell by what you write that you were a real light in peoples lives and make a difference for good.
@@goldbrick2563 I appreciate that! I know how corrupted the system can be and how miserable it can be just trying to find a therapist that vibes well with a person. I think if therapists were trained better and had more support it would make a huge difference (and obviously remove the God like complex).
@@CharissaexplainsitallXD I agree with you that therapists training is often not adequate or suitable for the real work.I'm in the UK so our healthy system is different and often we have to pay privately to get therapy.It sounds like a bigger industry in America thorugh insurance schemes etc ? But what you have written does show alot of self awareness and humility and it is that humility which is most important and whoch so many therapists lack.They have not even sorted their own lives out or issues and yet think they can help others.(God complex) It also sounds like it must be really frustrating when you know there are basic issues like housing or or having been failed by so many insitiutions like education or social services or have been exposed to such abuse and trauma.
My doctor committed suicide. Who knows how many patients he left devastated by his act. You are correct. We are often the healthier person in the room for therapy sessions.
After doing exactly everything my cbt therapist suggested over the course of 10 weeks of intensive outpatient I wasn’t feeling relief, nor gaining insights or personal power. She then told me that I “didn’t want to get well” and I was “doing it to myself”. I was discharged right back into the overwhelming situation I’d come from with no admission of the ineffectiveness of the expensive treatment. I was told to stay in touch but she never responded when I did. I later learned that her friend/co counselor was sleeping with another client while I was in the treatment group. The whole thing was amazingly agonizing and confusing.
There seems to be a good many narcissists in the field too. It’s a great source of money and emotional supply for them, and we the clients have to pay them for being gaslight! The Good ones are few and far between. Sometimes I think some can get burned out too… I just want to say thank you Daniel. I find videos comforting, because you understand people and have been on both sides. God Bless you and yours.
I have to agree that most of my important breakthroughs and even the details of getting my diagnoses perfectly correct, fell upon me! I did the work. The meditation, the personal research, the books… Not to sound know-it-all, but the doctors never even asked the right questions! If they had, they would’ve helped me more, many years sooner! A sad thing to say!
This is a video that everyone in my university class needs to see... I'm a psychology major that is reluctant to go to therapy myself, as I just excited my own dissociative state. From an outside perspective, I'm falling apart... I'm very much a novice, but I think a lot of this profession is about letting go and just listening empathetically while the client gets to be independent and make revelations about themselves (like a human journal)
Funny this popped into my recommended. Very recently I went to a therapist for the first time in years for some perspective on a very stressful social situation. Instead of discussing the situation, they wanted to talk about depression, which I haven't experienced in over a year. When I tried explaining that now I pretty much only "feel down" every now and then when something bad happens (as compared to the general, underlying shitty feeling of depression) they suggested that my depression is coming "in waves". I just walked away with the really weird feeling that they were trying to push the idea that I was depressed on me. Instead of accepting the possibility that I'd healed without the help of medication, they seemed convinced that I was in denial of my own (nonexistant) depression. It was just odd and offputting...
In therapy training is where things get truly ugly. It's a game to qualify to be a therapist. There is a power game within the training that is soul crushing
I had one such therapist and it's scary that she had many other people in therapy with her, she was .. mad. Telling people what they wanted to hear and putting megalomaniac ideas in their heads. Convinced that she's a genius. She was very angry and offended when I said I'm quitting. That was trippy. I was agonizing later over how many people she is hurting, legally.
@@s9o9 ah thanks for asking, yes i have a normal one, but I am not convinced that therapy can help me much further, it's just taking my time and money..but I'm ok, better than back then, thanks for asking!
Thank you for this. It’s scary how much damage a bad “therapist” can cause. I try to grow so I tried a therapy a few times. The last time I had a big fight with the therapist because he “diagnosed” me 5 minutes into our very first conversation. I obviously challenged him and he tried to push back but I didn’t take him garbage.
I stopped going to a therapist recently because she couldn't keep track of what we discussed previously. It's not a huge, busy clinic, but I get that I'm not the only patient. I had to keep reiterating things I really wanted help with. I also felt like I was being mocked or not taken seriously enough? I dunno. Also, platitudes or not helpful advice. After everything I've been through, I can't rely on hopes and dreams. When I say my life is shit and I don't have options, it doesn't help to hear "But, what if it's not? What IF it's possible?" when it's really not possible when I need resources I don't have to make things happen. I think I need a therapist who specializes in C-PTSD and trauma.
I dated a psychotherapist who was also a doctor. Everything you say is 100% correct. They were one of the most mentally disturbed individuals i have ever met in my life 😂
Nobody dares to question their position, so the ego runs wild. It's a strange awakening to the trust people place on being able to get through med school.
I have only once went for a 1h therapy session when I was 14 (my mum sent me there). This woman started listing confidential things she heard from my mum (all confidential stuff about me my mum shouldnt have told her in the first place) and making me feel bad about it - blaming me about the situation (my parents were arguing and shouting all the time) . I felt like it was a personal attack and left the office crying my eyes out it hurt so bad.
I work in mental health and i would say its not even taboo, most coworkers seemingly dont consider psychologists and psychiatrists to be fallible. Through my own mindfulness practice a few memories from eight years of employment at a psychiatric hospital, began to surface. Amongst other things i have now accepted that "proffesional" colleagues have sent me little coercive, condecending and shaming looks and bodily gestures, for years. No open communication nor any feedback about how i might better contribute to helping our patients, just insinuating glances and sometimes even triangulation. Which triggers me mildly still and leaves me feeling shamefull and inadequate. I am counting the days until i can get another job, but i owe this channel for the insights daniel freely offers.
This hits home in a big way, more than I can explain here. I outgrew my psychiatrist/psychotherapist, and I called him out on many things (after 5+ years) and as you can imagine it didn’t go well. But I know better now and I have moved on. I had to create my own closure, I was not going to get a proper termination with this one.
Me too, when I left my therapist, she was furious with me, how dare I leave. We want a neater closure, but I think that's a fantasy. For me, leaving my therapist showed me how messy life can be, and sometimes you need to do things where you own your decision. Sadly the therapist is unlikely to say, 'yes, you have outgrown me, I'm blocking your healing due to fear'.
Oh wow. That's so personal... I was with my therapist for six years (every two weeks), and for the first 5 years I took everything she said as gospel. I had so many insights and got so much more stable. But then... Our relationship changed. She started breaking my trust, I felt more and more reluctant to be honest with her. I confronted her about some specific moments, but she would get defensive. I sat in front of her and nothing would come to mind. No topics for discussion. "I think I am fine, everything is good, honestly" Finally, I got the courage to end the relationship, and it felt like a bad messy breakup. She framed my "out of nowhere" decision as a relapse and a sign of crisis. *shrugs* No regrets.
@@daisy7066 The first step I made was I found a LCSW (who also was a Clinical Behavioral Therapist) and told them what was going on, and they “held my hand”, through the process, they helped me process getting away from my, quite honestly, manipulative psychiatrist/psychotherapist. I hope this helps ❤️
As a therapist I can say that sadly this is true of most therapists these days. There are still some phenomenal people in this field but I would be fearful to send my child to one I hadn’t fully vetted 😢
I have a bad sense of direction and I am clumsy, tripping or running into things. I’ve always felt shame about it but my friends think it’s cute. So my therapist told me that I’m making myself dumb by being like that to hide from people. That’s when I knew I had to walk out.
Why I changed majors in college. I realized that most of my instructors, and outside professionals I met, couldn't even help themselves.I saw a lot of smug, delusional arrogance in a field where little was actually known. At least my Visual Arts instructors knew they were troubled trainwrecks.
My therapist got off on being rude. She liked dishing it out but when I finally got tired of being nice and dished it back she said she couldn't see me anymore because the relationship had been damaged and trust could not be restored. I never trusted her to begin with and the relationship had been damaged by her. When people are suicidal this profession can be life threatening. I did exactly what Daniel was talking about. I made a personal commitment to never see another therapist and I have had to process on my own what this therapist did. I worked through alot of intense anger at her and everyone that's hurt and abandoned me. It's been empowering because I feel like my life finally belongs to me. Some of us got put into the mental health system at an early age and the message that we were ill got pounded into our brains. I was taught by the system and my family that I couldn't survive on my own. I agree that alot of therapists are very arrogant.
I quitted my training phase of teaching due to depression and sought out several therapists, trying to find an open spot. So I talked to the head of a larger center of maybe 5-6 therapists and told him my story in brief words: I told him I felt repressed by the training, I felt like I lacked time for writing my novels, lacked concentration, had chronical headaches... So, he nodded and asked: "So, what led to this failure?" I let the conversation end naturally, but I knew the very moment the uttered this judgemental, arrogant question, that I did not want to tell this person anything more about my life and rely on this man's help and "advice". PS: Some might read this and think he was trying to give "tough love", or "stating things as they are", in order to clear up the basis of the future conversations - here's my thoughts on that: You don't give "tough love" to strangers/ people you don't know very well. Yes, you sometimes might hit the nail on the head, but that is highly unlikely and the others times this approach will hurt those people even more - especially if they openend themselves up to you and are therefore more easily influencable.
The very first therapist I saw was one offered through the college where I was studying. I suspected I was suffering from some depression and described how I had been feeling to her. After listening, her question to me was, “So, are you someone who sees the glass as half empty?” I thought, wow, this woman is clueless - and never went back. Since then I’ve had several incredibly awesome therapists, for which I’m so very grateful. Including an intern who very carefully prepared me for the ending of our therapeutic relationship at the end of his internship. He intentionally helped me process my feelings of abandonment, grief and even rage. It was very healing. So the good ones are definitely out there. It pays to be selective and nobody should have qualms about switching therapists if it just doesn’t feel right. The problem is when you’re so traumatized that you don’t know how you deserve to be treated… or what is right and true…….
I only ever had one therapist out of countless others who I believe really cared about my well-being. She wasn't a "licensed" one but I think that's what made her so empathetic. She didn't look down on me or thought she was always right, it was a genuine conversation between the two of us, and she never made me feel invalidated. But back when I started my first therapy, I already kind of knew it wasn't going to help me, I thought the problem was with me, and that some day, some perfect therapist would show up and therapy would finally work for me, because all of the other people around me said therapy helped them. But I've found that going my own way and helping myself has been way more beneficial to me than any therapist I've had. Most therapists did more damage to me than good.
I stopped going to therapy when I realized that I realize that I have a situation that most therapists can't Understand. I grew up poor and neglected. Do you realize how few therapist can understand understand where I'm coming from or sympathize with me? In fact, it has been my experience that Most therapist are trust fun babies
I have cptsd there is no cure but after milking me for other bs diagnosis and various meds I tell them nothing now my trust for mental health professionals out the window .
@areuarealman? Me: So, tell me about yourself. Therapist: Well, I grew up at the 2nd of 4. My Pops was a OBGYN and my Ma was a tenured Professor at the University of Chicago. Me: Hmm. Well, no disrespect but I was hoping to find a Therapist who's actually had some adversity in life. Therapist: You dont know anything about me. Me: I know as the offspring of an OBGYN and a College Professor you've never had to worry about food, shelter, clothing, transportation, or education. Sure, I'm almost certain you've been through breakups, losing family members, and studying for tough exams but those kinds of "problems" don't put your life in danger. Also, imagine dealing with all the mini issues you've delt with on top of not having your basic needs covered. Therapist: Money ain't everything. Me: But it's something. And something is always better than nothing. Be careful who you take advice from. Dobt take financial advice from trust fund babies. Don't take dating advice from extremely good-looking people. Dobt take studying tips from high IQ (140+) people. Remember, the fortune live everyday of their life in a fantasy
I know what you mean exactly and have concluded that most therapists are socially & culturally ignorant and most therapeutic encounters are between the Haves & the Have-nots. So ignorant in fact I met one who interpreted my cultural observations on a trip as taking my problems ("delusions") with me....when I had studied social sciences, so intent was he on discrediting me in any way he could to maintain his false veneer of sanity and superiority (despite my finding out later he wasn't even trained properly). I then discovered he had drawn inspiration from my interests for his website.... Later I attained a Masters in social sciences which involved interaction, observation, interpretation, etc - with a high mark.....So my Masters must be the rantings of a mad person (who's never been diagnosed with any mental illness...) and all my course tutors must be deluded also...! Things are so corrupt that even his membership org in UK expects them to report themselves if they have a fitness to practice issue... and so on...
This hits home so much for me, Daniel. When I finished my degree I was supposed to be ready to be a therapist but I saw that I wasn't healed at all and that I couldn't help anyone until I made myself healthier. I have seen many therapists that are really unhealthy and I wonder how they can be helping their clients in that way. Thank you so much for another great video!
I resonate with this a lot! During a bout of severe depression and existential anxiety I went to one therapist who encouraged me to “just change my attitude.” And I was debating over a big life decision and after a few months he suddenly said “you’re ready to make the choice and move on”, then told me he thinks I should follow path A, and said our time together was complete. So I “moved on” and stopped seeing him. A couple years later I had therapists tell me that my case was too severe for therapy to help and that I needed medication. So I went to a psychiatrist. After a dozen different drugs didn’t help at all, they told me that my case was too severe for meds to help and that I needed therapy. So what did I do? I quit both. That whole experience just left me feeling more hopeless and helpless.
This rings so true... I was in therapy for a few months during the pandemic, but something was off and I left. Now i know the probable cause of those feelings. Thank you, doctor.
Thank you for bringing up this topic in such a kind and insightful way. I'll be honest, after many years of different therapies, I've lost any admiration I used to have for therapists. In my experience, is not just being more unhealthy than their patients/clients but an extreme lack of self-awareness of their own biases and how these affect their advice and their understanding of a patient as a whole. Especially when dealing with patients who don't automatically take their word as a written law. They create an echo chamber where their perception of the world is healthy and when challenged, you are unhealthy. After talking to many friends who are studying psychology, I think most of it boils down to a lack of proper education and training in anthropology, theology, sociology, neuroscience, and overall cultural studies. It is almost like they lack the knowledge and interest to learn their patient's backgrounds beyond mom and dad. I had one therapist tell me how she didn't know anything about my family's religion (a very common one) and then proceed to tell me certain values were 'wrong' although she had just told me she had no idea about what those values meant - completely disregarding my experience in the process. This lack of general knowledge and intellectual curiosity makes it almost impossible to evolve as an individual and as a mental health caregiver, which is why most people 'outgrow' their therapist rather quickly. It perpetuates the idea there's only one 'healthy' way to live which often is the way your therapist currently lives their own lives (until they change their mind). At least that was my experience, with both psychiatrists and psychologists.
Extremely well-articulated. This should be printed up and sent to the governing bodies to mull over. The lack of self-awareness and bias that I experienced in therapy was shocking. I'm sure there are school children with much greater self awareness than this woman. She would also blurt out sharp judgments of me, things I've not really witnessed any other adults do let alone therapists. I told my story to somebody and one of his remarks at the end was that this seems like a sector that is quasi-regulated and I really thought that was spot on. A narcissist will finesse their supervisors with ease.
I am currently in a daycare clinic because of depression and grieving the loss of my entire family. It's an absolute nightmare how patients are treated.
@@lizp5449 you are both correct. Some are narcissists as you said, but as Kevin said there are also others that have psychological problems that prevent them from helping others . If they can’t fix themselves how can they fix others!
Well my Dad was a psychotherapist so I was always aware of this because he was a very manipulative, egoistic and even dishonest person. For this reason I have always taken therapy with a grain of salt.
Most are interested in figuring out and understanding people, and human behavior in general - which includes themselves, and SHOULD include themselves if they’re going to counsel others. However, this video touches on those who focus on trying to understand and “help” others when they haven’t done the work to understand themselves, heal, and integrate their own parts. It’s kinda like someone w a business major who doesn’t know how to run a successful business, but then goes on to become a “business coach” to others.
Nurse here - for a hot minute I lived with a friend who was studying to be a psychologist and almost finished. I went for drinks once with her and her fellow psychologist friends. They all stated they were doing “the most important jobs in the world” 😅the ego was shocking (side note I was working in ICU at the time!)
you working in ICU is irrelevant. My mental health providers have indeed kept me stable and alive. Are you forgetting the risk of SI in this patient population? Sometimes my providers were the only people I had contact with.
Long story short,, I was with a therapist for almost 5 yrs. 2 sessions a week. I have a dissociative disorder, so yes, trauma. Loads. This therapist started out too good to be true. Towards the end, he became exactly what you're describing. I had to leave. Walked out. I was devastated. He never even tried to reach out to make sure I was OK. With a new therapist now, so far, so good. But now I have to deal with the trauma from the previous therapist. Trauma from a trauma therapist. The final straw was him insisting I go on medication. I refused because, been there, done that. He was not happy.
The second I started having conflict with my first therapist I stopped going to them. I grew up in the hood. For me, paying to argue is the stupidest thing I can do.
I was in a very dark and vulnerable place when I started seeing my first therapist and she was great but she didn’t take my insurance so she transferred my case to a colleague. Like I said I was very vulnerable at the time and I couldn’t talk about my problems without crying and feeling very ashamed and self-conscious. This new therapist would bring her pet chicken into the session and focus all her attention and energy on this chicken. She would get up and run out of the room when the chicken would poop on her desk to get cleaning supplies and sanitize her desk vigorously and obsessively. She was literally obsessed with this chicken to the point where I started crying because I felt as if she was mocking me by deliberately making me feel invisible in her presence. This is why I don’t seek therapy. I am traumatized by this therapist’s very unprofessional behavior.
I actually experienced this myself as a support worker. I’d always worked in charities or in some kind of caregiver role, but had so many issues myself and was in and out of mental health support. I still deal with this now as I work in a school with teenagers, doing well-being support. I realised last year though what was happening as I started to feel almost as if the students were “healing” me, which threw up a huge red flag so I took a break and worked on my own stuff. I’m finally feeling like I know what was going on with my own life, and actively look for ways where I don’t need to fill this “caregiver” role.
@@sparrowbarnesmusic5864 Because most of the time I still did a good job as a support worker. As someone who has had issues with depression, anxiety and trauma, and has experienced the mental health system in my country, I was well placed to help the people I worked with. I was never manipulative, nor did I lie to my clients. If you re-read what I wrote, I said I took a step back when I felt that the balance wasn't right with the people I supported, I didn't carry on or put them at risk. I can see that you have suffered and I'm sorry for your experience, but there's no need to attack or hurt me based on your own judgements.
Some things I've learned about therapists: 1) Some take advantage of the dynamic so they don't feel the need to develop themselves after the degree. Especially older therapists are more resistant to trying new approaches and would rather refer you out than to change. 2) If you think you may have executive functioning issues with ADHD/anxiety/depression/etc; ASK if they know what the spoon theory is. If they won't bother in consuming content that their patients may find helpful (mental health content on youtube/tiktok/etc.) OUTSIDE of a therapy paywall, run away FAST. They will be the first to discredit any systems/tips/mindsets not made exclusively by "professionals." 3) If their online profile says that they specialize in everything, it means that they specialize in NOTHING. It seems like they'll just take on any client regardless of the type of care they need and won't be of any help other than general 'uh-huh''s.
My therapist almost drove me to ending my life. It took me 3 years to get back to somewhat "normal." I wouldn't wish what she did to me on my worst enemy.
Daniel, thank you for being here for us. You initiated my healing process many years ago, and I'm grateful for each and every video you make. Thank you for all you do.
@@pod9363 I've been trying not to give up on life for many many years. I don't know ,really, there's this rare authenticity about Daniel you don't see often these days, purity of heart, if you will. I hadn't been aware of how terrible my upbringing was and that I suffered from PTSD (brutal rape victim) until I came across Alice Miller, Daniel and Dr. Janina Fisher. There's plenty of work involved but I have changed a lot, my window of tolerance is bigger and I've learnt to observe my emotions, befriend my fragmented selves and not discard them. I came to peace with those fragmented selves of mine that helped me survive in the past and learnt how to strengthen my 'normal' self, i.e. the one that wants to live and thrive. Daniel and Alice Miller have helped me not to damage my own child, and Dr. Janina Fisher (only through her books) has taught me how to manage my hypervigilant and always terrified self. I hope that helps, if only a little bit ❤
I’ve been supposed to start therapy now for about two years and my psychologist keeps pushing off my appointments, she’s been be very rude and straight up told me she won’t give me what I want (all I want is a five min chat with someone) she told me I’m demanding in front of others and told me that I need to get sober, which I did and she still refuses it and told me to wait weeks, when I asked her how long she said “how long is a piece of rope” and that she will continue to stand her ground, I’m currently going through withdrawals, a major breakup and having a hard time, she literally said out loud that the point is that she will push it off so much that I don’t need her in the end… apparently see real of her clients agree that she’s arrogant and rude. It’s nice to know that I’m not crazy and being rude. I even apologised to her!
For the past year I have been trying to work through trauma instilled in me by a psychotherapist. One of the hardest parts of trying to heal and process though, has been trying to find someone who believes me, and I had started to resign myself to believing that it was my fault, somehow I attract psychos, and no one was going to ever get what I had just gone through. Watching this video, where you seem to explain every detail of what I went through, was the most validating and healing experience I think I have had to date. Thank you for showing me I'm not the only one, breaking my shame loop, and giving me the opportunity to realize that this was on the therapist, not me.
I'm glad to hear you found value in this video, Kissy. I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. I only wish I had more time to respond to all the lovely people who have commented on this video. Wishing you (and everyone here) the best! Daniel
If you want to talk about it more, i am open to that. I have had similar experiences, and i still have a hard time accepting that narcissists exist since i have been so used to just feeling shame about myself instead of disgust for others.
@@pineappleflow2876 Strictly speaking from experience, going from shame of self to disgust of others is one and the same. It's a viscious cycle. One or the other will not help you, or give you better insight. We all go through trauma, we all use narcissism as a coping mechanism even though some fall more into the covert category and some in the psychopathic one, depending on their circumstances and personality. Recognizing my own narcissism resulted in a massive breakthrough that marked the end of 20 years of pure misery. Today, I fully recognize I subconsciously used narcissism as a mask even though I was also an empath and cared a lot about people. It's super sneaky. Narcissism shouldn't be demonized; it's a natural, impulsive coping mechanism. The more we recognize our own, the less we attract situations where other people feel compelled to mirror our hidden narcissism back to us. This was a tough pill to swallow at first but it saved my life.
@@sunongral5605 Thanks, but i didn't mean disgust as a coping mechanism, but more like recognizing the terrible things that others have done to us and putting the shame back where it belongs. Healthy anger and disgust, in my experience it heals, i think you are talking about the subconscious anger that a traumatized person has.
@@pineappleflow2876 Ah, yes! Psychology is so still so young and fluid it's hard to properly communicate sometimes. I wanted to make sure you were not stuck in the feedback loop of shame and disgust that trauma puts us into. It took me a while to get unstuck from it so it hits me when I see people mention those emotions. I found that redirecting my anger not towards my ego or the egos of my abusers (we're ultimately all victims, so someone has to break the cycle), but towards the source of all things stopped the serpent from eating its own tail in my head. The mind is very symbolic and metaphoric, it's helpful to work with that! I wish you all the best on your journey 💚
thank you I really needed to hear this. I've had 5 significant deaths in the past year and a half, one of which was only 4 months ago (a parent that I caregave). My therapist keeps circumventing and steering me away from grieving. crying, mourning talking about the death or my loved one or mention the parent's name. I am actually in more grief than when I started because I cannot talk abut the loss. I think I going to drop her as a Therapist. Honestly I would rather go without.
The best therapist I ever had was one that told me I didn't need therapy. That I had all the tools I needed, and I need to get out there and live life. I'd been in therapy for over twenty years. It changed my life getting the go ahead to just go out and work on life without the crutches of therapy. So, so freeing.
I'm starting to realise that my therapist is seriously invalidating many of my concerns and issues because she actually has no clue how to help me. In fact, she used those exact words in a moment of not thinking about what she was saying. Since then, I've really been super observant in our sessions and I see that she simply tries to normalise every issue so that I must feel like there's nothing out if the ordinary going on in my life. Essentially she's gaslighting me. It has taken me nearly a year to figure this out. I'm cancelling our next session.
& BINGO!!!!! This is it. This perfect succinct gem is exactly what I've needed for awhile now.... Thank you, Daniel! "Starts to acknowledge their loss, starts to integrate all these different feelings... Steps forward into making sense of what they are going through now and where it came from. Really making sense of their childhood history, of the traumas they suffered, of the losses and the abandonments, the neglects and the violations, and the abuses they suffered. This is how people heal from suffering. This is how they make sense of suffering and get their life back. Reconnect with the truth that is deeply within them underneath their traumas."
My last therapist was terrible and it sadly took months for me to realise. My sessions were venting sessions and I felt stuck when I didn't get the deeper help I needed. I was told many times to take medication because "it would help" and my depression was worsening. The best part is that I told them from the very beginning I don't want medication nor need it. When I resisted, it felt like I triggered them by invalidating their recommendations. In the end I said I would take a break and try a 12 step program but they were really cautioning me. They even kept sending me hotline numbers for suicide after every session in the end! After 10 months of my 12 step program and a better therapist, things are going so much better. Not sure if it was a red flag, but the bad therapist told me they were going to therapy sessions themselves. I believe in this period of time, it was the therapist who was intensifying my suffering by invalidating me and pushing unneeded help upon me because I was emotional in sessions.
Thank you - I have just recently come to the horrible realisation that a therapist I was seeing for over a year was narcissistic. In hindsight, the fact that my narcissistic mother was the one to introduce me (only later did I finally see that my mum was narcissistic) did I put 2 and 2 together. Terribly dangerous as to have a therapist like this as like with most narcissists, they will validate you and often be quite helpful at first, but is always their own needs that ultimately come first. Thank you for this video as it's a blind spot for sure.
The thing about the arrogancy you mention at around 3:20 is a feature not just therapists but most doctors have in common. I once had really bad psycho issues due to an infection. I went to at least 4 general practitioners, two gastroenterologist and even was in the hospital once because they suspected appendicitis. At one point, I wanted to see a psychotherapist but here in Germany, all of them were booked out because of lockdowns, Covid vaccines and measures, and Covid making peope sick. So I ended up buying some antibiotics on the internet and that was a game changer at least in terms of my gastrointestinal and psychiatric issues. What all of those doctors had in common was that they were prejudiced (thinking of me as a hypochondriac) and were not willing to learn from their patients as for them, that might have meant accepting the fact that sometimes their patients know more than they do even without having gone through medical school or university for years.
Wow, this video comes at a time where I’m wondering what my sister’s future clients have in store. She’s in total denial of her lifelong toxic and abusive behaviour, and just announced she’s going to become a therapist.
I had a therapist who couldn’t get out of the role of “im the therapist” so when i started to solve my own problems i would schedule appointments and tell him about the progress I’ve made on my own and he would diminish everything id say to and try to bring back up trauma from my childhood that I already worked out in order to put me in a space of “you’re the client and im helping you”. i can now see that the man was not well. (also for context he was an older white man and i was a young black girl)
Have NEVER personally met a “healthy” psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, etc. There is an episode on Law & Order (original) where 2 are married & I’d bet that’s the way most of those married couples are. My psychologist ex married a LICSW & people reach out to tell me how awful they are even though I divorced him over 45 YEARS AGO! CZcams has been a godsend for dealing with narcissists #1 - The Little Shaman & #2 - Dr. Ramani.
'You need medication' = 'You are threatening my arrogance/denial too much'. So true. They demand that you tell them really private and personal stuff (like child sexual abuse), assuring you that you will feel better after you have shared your story with them (like in the Jeremy Kyle show). Not surprisingly, this isn't the case but most therapists are clueless about trauma. Talking about it makes you worse... and the therapists (who often insist that the traumatic events cannot have happened, especially if the 'alleged' abuser was respectable) conclude that you need drugs.
Having studied psychology, Buddhism and meditation over the life time of trauma etc I lived through, I definitely knew more than ‘most’ I spoke to, and also the advice they gave me , was mind boggling and misguided. More and more , nowadays, it’s just another cash cow, which is abusive also.
I’ve always known this but incredibly bad with words thank you for having your own distinctions categorized it’s extremely helpful. I’ve had two therapists: The first, I don’t remember quite well but she was a bully. I told her I had anxiety and she kept asking me why, when I told her there was no reason, she just kept saying why, accusingly, as if I should know, and I was lying to her. I told her I felt like a glass of water and everyone could see through me and she laughed. I told her I was scared to sit alone and decided to sit in an open seat by my classmate and she prodily suggested I had a crush on him. She talked over me with my mother in the room and I started crying. And when I left she flashed me a knowing arrogant smile that I would stop the sessions. The next, was a woman I started talking to immediately, I hadn’t gone to therapy in a long time and I had sort of built a lot of walls, but I started unloading all the past trauma, the harshness of it all, she seemed totally uninterested and unphased, I looked at her and I could tell she was the type of shy person that needed a chance to speak, the more I spoke about my trauma the more she was angry and annoyed she didn’t have a chance to speak. I didn’t understand why she got into therapy if she hated listening to people. She didn’t note anything I was saying except when I said I thought I might have a mental illness, she took great interest in my knowledge of that. She offered me no advice or reflection.
The scenario you painted about wanting to confront your therapist on being less healthy than you, I can only imagine how that registered. In their mind, they're going, is he challenging me? Is he pushing boundaries? Then, with some humility, How do I appear unhealthy? What did I say to convey that I'm not healthy?
Carl Rogers talks about this a lot. In his time, the most famous therapists were rated very low in empathy and this is often detrimental to the therapeutic process.
Happened to me. It was what made me realize that the "authority" we give people in positions of medical power is almost religious in our society. Just because some jerk in a white coat or a therapists office tells you something doesnt mean its fact. It was a terrible wake up call. I learned from that exp that they cant really heal you, they are just tools for you to use to heal yourself.
religious is the word, professionals are the new priests.
💯
Yes, but unfortunately, it's only 1 out of 10 understand the transference neurosis.
Fortunately your past sentence hits the nail on the head (as far as I'm concerned). Because the best news is that you can heal yourself.
Doctors abused me and traumatized me for life hundreds of time. 50% of medical professionals are criminals and sadists of all flavors and types. I’ve met the good ones. They are rare and take effort to find.
I was diagnosed with Depersonalisation Derealization Disorder and was given Antidepressants and Antipsychotics along with Therapy. Being a curious person by nature, I learned everything about my disorder, the Medications, etc.(I’m a Med student as well) and was eager to discuss with my therapist.
Being disassociated most of the time, I’m very good at analyzing my past trauma without showing any emotions which led to the therapist thinking I’m faking it.
I challenged her statement and provided arguments that contradicted her opinions (past sexual assault, neglect and loneliness) and she just said that I’m a fucking PSYCHOPATH.
I instantly quit therapy, tapered off the meds and got clean and one year later, I’m much better off. Really bad experience with a clueless therapist.
Geeze sorry that happened glad you got out
I am so glad you listened to yourself over that incompetent "professional."
is anyone gonna tell him or should I?
Damn..psychopath?? I don’t think that’s even a real
Diagnosis
@@Thingsandcosas I love when people try to pretend they know anything about something they havent experienced. It's very real i assure you.
"Being with someone who is in a position of power over one, who is actually less healthy, is a very dangerous situation."
And exactly what a person who grew up in that situation would seek out!
@@jennw6809 This is a profoundly good point.
@@alexxxO_O I figured this out after like the 10th bad therapist. And I chose them. But whats so disturbing is how many of them there are.
I've had many bad therapists, but one who stood out the most was a man I had therapy with when I was 13/14 years old. At the time I was in foster care, and the workers of the group home I lived in were incredibly abusive. When I told this therapist what was going on, he said this couldn't be true, because otherwise the place would have been closed by the government a long time ago. So he tried to make me believe I was delusional and paranoid. I asked him why he thought that and he said "because paranoid people believe that everyone is bad and trying to harm them." I told him I don't believe that. "See, that's exactly what a paranoid person would say, so that proves I'm right." And this just went on until I actually started to question my sanity.
Pure gaslighting. It's happened to me. Twice.
Oh yeah, the foster care system couldn't possibly be that bad! Whatever mate. I don't know when this happened or what time period it was but now a days anyone with half a brain knows that more often than not foster families have a tendency to be abusive. If a biological parent can hide it, so can they
wth..... that sucks... it's like a troll but in person!! Sorry you had to experience that. This makes me think that maybe there should be a hidden surveillance camera/recorder (with a raw/unedited transcript log for the convo) in case some malpractice goes on like that.. But then, they'd probably use that against you too instead of trying to understand you 😑 the way they acted but flipped it on you speaks volumes......
It's only paranoia if it's not based in reality. He just didn't want to bother to write an extra report
@@weneedmoreconsideratepeopl4006 Brits at least can record sessions for own use without telling the therapist & if something unanticipated happens you will have evidence.
I was in therapy for eight months, but all I could afford was therapy with an intern. After eight months she told me she had learned a lot about herself and she was quitting the program. Cool.
Lol me too but she gave me a book on trauma at the end. That was something at least.
@@Wingedmagician lol this happened to me too. The books my psychologist recommended were actually better than the 20 or so sessions I had with her 😂
I knew of a practice that hired therapist straight out of school. Most only had their license 6 months or less and they listed every mental disorder on their site and said they had experience in all areas. I quit going to that place
Alot of practices in the UK even offer an more affordable option of 40-60£ pounds an hour with a senior student with no experience. 😂😂👍
@@Maria7Maria lol and you are surprised the minds of great authors are better than the knowledge of an intern/bad therapist?
Psychotherapy has a normalizing societal function. I raised this to my therapist and she asked me to explain what I meant. I lost respect for the profession after that. You're right, it is the height if arrogance; it's not just that they think they have the answers, it's that they think they know what's best for your case so that you will fit in and function effectively in a profoundly disturbed environment. Their role is actually to make a pathologically twisted world palatable and manageable - to bend and twist a healthy response to a warped world into a pathology. If they had any normal values they would be advocating for revolution.
There's basically an entire book on this point you're making, you might enjoy checking out. It's called Against Therapy by Jeffrey Masson. He argues that therapists have almost never fought for social change (this may have been more accurate in the 80s when the book was written) and that they tend to lack any moral backbone. I liked this book because, unlike with psychiatry, you rarely see critiques of therapy. This book and Daniel's channel are the exceptions.
Wow! Exactly - well said.
Yep, 100% spot on.
Careful saying any of this to a therapist or they’ll see it as a “symptom.”
I found this analysis in James Hillman's books, he basically said that often the individual is "healthily" mentally ill because he healthily reacts to the illnesses of our society, lifestyle, pollution in the envinronment, sickness of workplaces and even buildings or cities. Then psychotherapy try to normalize his symptoms, to make him more adaptable to this sick world. His books have greatly open my mind and soul. I miss him. 😢😢❤
I learned this not from therapy, but from several friendships I’ve had with therapists. They all had significant issues and unhinged behaviors.
And there's that old cliche of a therapist whose kids are unruly for whatever reason.
Doctor, heal thyself.
its cuz we all just humans lol.
@@spintillimdizzy2340 yeah but one is charging the other
@@izdotcarter again… we’re humans lol we tax each other in all kinds of ways. If you think just because someone profits off you that they are fully conscious then good on you but it’s unrealistic. Self deception, ego, and survival all go hand in hand.
therapist is spelled like "the+rapist".
My ex said it. He is a genius. 😂👏
Oh god this reminds me of when I went to therapy for my anorexia and my therapist turned out to also have an eating disorder which she was completely in denial about 🤦♀️💀
When I was in college, a lot of people in my psychology classes were openly talking about how they were mentally ill.
Oh, the irony...
I mean, good therapists usually go through shit themselves and then work through it and manage it healthily and become therapists… but, it’s not exactly something to joke around about if you aren’t really healthy yet lol
But if they were talking about it for social attention, that’s not good…
@@BrDe135 Probably most of them just figured it was a safe space. Plus lots of people who are mentally Ill become interested in psychology because it begins with understanding themselves.
That's the catch 22; it seems to attract people who need the services they're training in way more than healthy people.
The fact that there was a whole tiktok trend of therapists joking about how they’re more messed up than their clients. Exactly 💯
My therapist ghosting me ended up being the best thing that happened to me
Came across such a therapist and she was cruel, abrupt and unkind. She re- traumatised me regarding a childhood memory during a phone conversation. It's very dangerous
I have been traumatised by therapists too.
I'm sorry, I hope you can move past that.
retraumatisation can be physically damaging, on a cellular level in the brain in the mitochondria.
I had an awful therapist as well. She didn’t just retraumatize me, she traumatized me in whole new ways as well. She truly ruined me, I’ve never been the same, I’m not able to connect with people anymore, she ruined my life. This is the danger of allowing someone to change you in your most vulnerable state. Sometimes they can change you for the worse.
@@bxnny0374 I can completely relate to you my friend. It is a truly harrowing horrific experience. And one of the last things the therapist said to me is how smug she was... A truly unstable and manipulative woman indeed.
My wife and I went to a therapist a number of years ago and he completely shut her down mid-sentence. After the session he said he was testing her to see how she would respond, to see if she was a narcissist. He then shared how he tests / plays with people all the time outside his office. Seemed pretty sociopathic to me and my wife. We never went back.
I started to get my Masters in counseling back in the 1980's and after a year realized I wasn't cut out for it. Not that I don't like helping people, but I found that so many of my professors and fellow students got into the field to figure themselves out. So much of counseling is the blind leading the blind. Occasionally there is someone who has done the hard work and come out the other side. Those people are usually the only therapists worth seeing. But good luck finding one as you won't know if you are struggling deeply yourself and they have diplomas on the wall.
Houses to get to know what's wrong with you if he doesn't test you? That's literally what doctors do
I remember going to therapy for postpartum depression and the therapist telling me she was suffering from the same issues because she had just had a baby and believed she came back to work too soon. I actually ended up giving her some advice and kind words. It def happens
Did you bill her after?
@@charlesli1555 😂😂😂😂
@@charlesli1555 haha
@@charlesli1555 lol
I call that kind of therapist The Hijacker.
Sir... I don't even know what to say. You've just described a horrific experience I had with a very dysfunctional therapist. I feel so validated that someone else understands this toxic dynamic.
Great you are speaking about this. I was in mental health for 32-years and as a psychotherapist in London. Then, there was a saying that if a psychotherapist becomes healed, they can't work anymore. Jung said when we meet a new patient, our first question should be 'What have they come to teach me.'
I heard the saying to that a therapist can only take a client as far as they have went themselves
@@maggie0285 that's true, too.
Well Jung got that wrong then. It's perfectly possible for a healthy therapist to be good - in fact they're more likely to be
@@red_velvetcake1759 Exactly.
@@maggie0285 that isn’t very far for some and in other cases it might mean dragging the client down.
This exists. I was raised by a Psychotherapist. I let my therapist go. She was a codependent. Also a friend of mine is a Psychotherapist. She' just left a toxic relationship and is obsessed with a person that bread crumbs her. Let's be careful people.I have had a story full of experiences with unhealed therapists. It's disheartening.
Carl Rogers spoke about this, the unsettling conclusion that in order to be the best therapist you can be the gap between the ideal and actual self must be closed and integrated. Not every therapist does this, however, some do. The ones that do and come from a history of abuse, neglect, and mental health are the best ones out there. Lived experienced healthy processed can't be taught in schools and yet is a powerful ally in helping professions.
Exactly
Thank you for saying this in such a clear way.
I went to therapists that blatantly violated HIPPA, ethics and normal professional boundaries. I think it's unfortunate that narcissistic types, as well as crippled codependent therapists are allowed to practice and in doing so, harm their clients. The CZcams space is very pro-therapist and anti-client, so I really appreciate this video.
Boundaries, lol. My previous therapist prided himself on not being like other therapists. Because of my traumas, I had no idea just far he went in crossing boundaries. I couldn't tell the difference between a red flag and kindness, and he took advantage of that.
There's a reason they became therapists and it's specifically because they're narcissists.
@@MysticZefer Ya. He actually told me I could never find another therapist as good as he thought was.
My psychiatrist always told me how “difficult” I was and at the end of my bout with her I slowly stopped taking medication without begging her for permission. She was scared of how smart and capable I was at challenging her arrogance. Once I got off of the medication she finally diagnosed me with ASD and told me I should go to another therapist who knows how to better deal with “people like me”.
Sounds like a narcissist
@@Ikaros23 Autism is super effective against narcissism.
Thats horrible.
Fucked up damn. People love to hate borderline and ASD. It’s “too hard” or “too weird” I guess.
What? Omg
This comment section is so validating. I tried so hard to take my first therapists advice. I tried to be transparent with her. I tried to tell her my concerns about being permanently dependant on antidepressants, but she acted like i was just being obstinate. I really just wanted to talk about it but every conversation became circular.
Later I was feeling hurt by something a friend said to me, so i asked the therapist how i could bring my concerns to my friend and open a peaceful diologue. The therapist told me i should keep it to myself!
I cried after every session. In the end she told me it seemed like i wasnt interested in her advice and we parted ways.
I’m a psych grad student. My professor is a nightmare. This lovely, balanced, Buddhist of all things screamed in my face - screamed - I mean spitting, teeth bared, vicious. Thank God there were witnesses. I’ve seen people arrested for less. Was he fired however? In any other setting, he would be. Of course not. Is he fake, unstable & scary? Yes.
Two other nice details. He knows I survived domestic violence because he did a therapy session in class with me. And get this…his speciality is teach Non-Violent Communication!!! You can’t make this up.
Oh eventually he’ll lose it again & be fired. Just not now. Gotta love how the corrupt protect their own. So yes, I know exactly what you’re talking about. Did he at least apologize? Of course not.
I found one good therapist out of 20 in about 20 years and what you are saying is 100% accurate. I have told therapists off and have refused to pay one who told me there was no hope for me .
This video is so true. My mother is a psychotherapist and has destroyed her relationships with every member of her extended family. Her children don't talk to her and one refuses any contact. Any honest emotional conversation with her is impossible and usually leads to rage and denial. I've given up trying 😪
I have met psychiatrists that are abusive. I realized that just like how I had realized as a child that being a preacher didn’t mean the person was healthier, being a psychiatrist didn’t automatically mean that that person was mentally stable either. I think we just assume that these archetypes of people looked to as authority figures would have it more figured out, yet some people who are actually bullies can have jobs that give them power over other people. While I do think most folks go into jobs like policing, social work, spiritual advising, coaching, psychiatric assistance, etc, to help people, some deranged folks go into the same jobs to have a sense of superiority & power. I’ve met a few very cold & cruel people that I had initially thought would be a help, to find out they were harming people. I learned you can’t ever assume that because of a person’s job title or certification, that it meant you were with a person who would automatically be kind or mentally stable. Some psychiatrists are bullies, so they obviously are not who you would want to have helping you understand mental health, as they aren’t even healthy.
Yes, the people I work with as a therapist are the healthiest most coherent and alive people I have the good luck to know because they are actively acknowledging and willing to investigate and engage with the causes of suffering we all experience. It's a privilege to be in a position to contribute to their healing, growth and, if all goes well, liberation. There are so few cultural spaces where there is the kind of permission to be human that can exist in therapy, but, yes, being in this role keeps me humble and amazed. If I ever lose that it probably means it's time for me to retire or find another job.
You sound like an awesome therapist 👍🏽
@@itzajdmting I wouldn't go that far. My motives are honorable.
Thanks though
@@richcronshey8886 You're welcome..
I agree. Its not clear what experiences he's had to have become so convinced about the existence of such evil, incompetent therapists and their motives underlying each of these premises.
I'm autistic. I spent decades trying to get help from psychologists and psychiatrists for the crippling anxiety and the depression this created. Not a single one of them recognized or diagnosed my autism. In the end it was my girlfreind who suggested it - by way of love and acceptance. So I looked into it. I watched some videos on Asperger's Syndrome / Level 1 Autism. I took some online assements that indicated a lot of autistic traits. So I asked my psychiatrist for an assement. He reffered me to a specialist, who in turn was able to recognize my autism almost immediately, and after a 4 hour marathon of questions about my childhood, adolescent and adult life, the diagnosis was made.
Everything you say about psychotherapists is generally true. The arrogance in particular when challenged. It's a power thing. That really sucks for open, vulnerable people like me seeking to understand themselves better and to aleiviate the absolute torture of chronic anxiety, depression, shame, and feelings of worthlessness and hopelessness. It's a cowardly form of displacement and projection of their own pathology by hiding in the guise of a compasionate helper. Overall, my experience with psychiatry was no better, but because I wasn't doing therapy with them, less damage was done. I did gain some profound insights into myself which led to better self acceptance in psychotherphy, but it was mostly accidental. I've gained a lot more just from watching CZcams. and I mean a LOT more.
Thanks for putting this out there.
Also, with autistic people, psychologists and psychiatrists often blame all difficulties and psychological problems on the autism, without considering the wider social context autistic people are living in and what their histories are with victimisation and abuse. Even when autistic people get bullied, cheated or victimised, it's appallingly common for the autistic person to be framed as the problem I.e, calling them inherently "vulnerable" without considering why they are more vulnerable, putting the autistic person through "therapy" to teach them how to blend in so they don't "give people a reason to bully them", or even in some cases excluding them from school or sending them to special schools or special ed because "the school can't handle their needs" I.e, "the school doesn't want to tackle its bullying problem and doesn't want to stand on the toes of all the parents of the kids who bullied them, instead we'll blame the autistic and warehouse them."
@@robokill387 EXACTLY. I'd say any autism "treatment" is quackery. What's needed is recognition, support, validation, and acceptance. Psychological industry's conception of autism is in the same place homosexuality was 50 years ago:
"If you'd just act normal, you wouldn't be having / causing so much trouble so we have to fix you..."
Pure quackery. Downright abusive, even if it is well intentioned.
I was just reffered by my Kaiser Psychiatrist for Psychotheraphy for dealing with my autism diagnosis. I told him I wasn't anxious or depressed, just in "autistic shutdown" in it's aftermath. I told him that I'd had some bad experiences with psychologists over the years, and that I now had a few conditions for any new psychotherapists:
1) They must be EXPERTS in AUTISM. No generalists. I'll only see specialists from now on.
2) They must specialize in supporting autistic ADULTS. Not just children.
3) They must understand the unique challenges and needs of intellectually gifted autistic people like me.
4) ADHD expertiese - particularly the emotional impact of it - should also be an area of professional competence.
5) Ideally, the therapist will themselves be AUTISTIC.
That last part is very important. Think about it: If a homosexual man is trying to come to terms with their sexuality and it's impact on their social functioning and emotional well being, what sort of therapist is better equipped to understand what the person is dealing with:
A) A straight psychologist?
B) A gay psychologist?
When I brought this up with Kaiser's autism coordinator, she responded with " Our providers typically do not disclose their own diagnoses with patients"
Well, right there I have a BIG problem. I'm disclosing MY diagnosis, and am expected to be honest and open about all aspects of my most difficult, traumatic, and private inner experences.
But the person who I'm supposed to trust with this isn't required to do the same with me? Well, that right there is some high level BS. It creates an extreme power imbalance, and that imbalance is the root of most of the difficulties I've encountered in the psychotheraputic / psychopharma rackets.
Arrogance combined with power over vulnerable people results in very bad things. I think disclosure of any and all mental health issues should be an absolute requirement for ALL mental health professionals. Seems pretty basic.
The fact that they don't speaks to either personal shame about mental illness (bad) societal bigotry about mental illness / challenges (also bad), or worst of all, a desire to maintain the illusuion of normalacy in order to gain power over patients.
The only way we'll get past this BS is through DISCLOSURE, OPENESS, and HONESTY on the part of therapists.
HUMILITY should also be central to any theraputic support. A fragile suffering person has come to you for support and guidance. It's a privledge to be invited into the life of such a person as a helper. Assume you know nothing. Listen to them and validate their experiences. Work to guide and support them as they express the need - not to fix or make them "normal".
From what I've seen, "normal" people are pretty miserable.
@@TheWilliamHoganExperience Hear hear! I agree with all your points here - well said! The horrid power dynamic / gross imbalance, plus the pressure on the client totally to trust the intelligence, knowledge, insights, compassion, understanding, common sense, kindness & lack of money-grabbing, reputation-boosting, narcissistic power-wielding, arrogant etc motivations of any 'therapist' is mind-bendingly ridiculous & unrealistic. Many of these qualities are not quantifiable or measurable by exams, number of years' study or books read.
I particularly liked your mention of highly intelligent, informed, autistic clients being often intellectually superior to many of these 'therapists' who have no experience of or with autism, nor any specialised study & knowledge of or interest in autism.
The several 'therapists' I've known socially have all been strikingly odd: bossy, opinionated, arrogant & unwilling to listen to different views from their own ... or simply not very intelligent or discerning and over-reliant on quoting trendy memes & soundbites. I wish I knew how to find anyone I could respect & trust.
(Expected response: that these remarks are 'symptoms' of all sorts of subjectively-'diagnosed', non-scientifically-defined pathologies in me, which need years of 'therapy' & much expensive 'medication' - for the effectiveness of which there is no scientific backing.)
how did you overcome the crippling anxiety, depression, shame etc.?
I stopped going to my therapist after she started downplaying my traumatic memories and suggesting I need to mend relations with my family, despite some very inappropriate and abusive behaviors on their part, that have happened repeatedly since I was a child up to my late 20s, when I started to seriously limit my contact with them. I feel much better now and I would be even happier if I could cut them off completely. The only reason I have not done that is because I do not have a support system outside my family of origin, sadly. But with respect to my therapist, I was grateful to her for the EMDR sessions and the help she gave with the bulk of my traumas, but I had to accept that she could not help further...
It's so messed up that we're the ones who were violated but also the ones expected to make the amends. Totally backwards and seems like gaslighting in a way to me. In any other relationship people encourage and advocate for the abused to get out and get away, but in the case of immediate family, they think we should stay in that muck. Like wtf???
Yep, one counsellor told me "you'll just have to accept your mother."
Another at least helped me to see the positive and bring me into present-day with narrative therapy. I would recall something awful she did, and he'd say something like, and "look how you have overcome that" -- or, "look at how strong you are now", etc. I hated it at the time but it stuck with me going forward.
Imagine if any therapist said, "Sure, you're separated from your abusive husband now, but you need to mend relations with him." But biological family (especially parents) get a pass though even if they engage in the same (or worse) behaviors.
@@Grero which is ironic because the woman and the abusive husband *are* the child/children's family, so we have a society where parents are encouraged to break up, but then the children are never meant to remove themselves from that damage when they've grown up? insane.
I'm so sorry that happened to you, that's so incredibly destructive
I opted for self therapy after years of trying to heal with someone that would judge and tease me and seemed triggered herself when I tried to breech my childhood trauma. One of the last breaking points is when she accused me of wanting to be on government assistance for trying to figure out what was wrong with me.
I was both a client and worked at a mental health centre for a few years; over time I started observing things that disturbed me; like that the role of the psychiatrist in the system resembled a narcissistic head of a family, while the staff under them and clients were in what I called ‘’forced co-dependance’’. (I called it ‘narcissistic’ where you call it ‘lack of humility’) The psychiatrists’ word was law; the staff and clients had to defer to everything they did and said (even when there was wide disagreement), the psychiatrist dictated what was ‘reality’, (usually without having taken any kind of history from the person) and most people were gaslighted into a sort of obedient behaviorism, that was not actually lessening their suffering. I couldn’t put my finger on it at the time, but I think what I was sensing was wrong was what you say in this video about dissociating from your feelings (or other symptoms), is in no way health, and in fact the clients were still extremely uncomfortable and barely able to fake-function.
My own experience of being gaslighted by the system with promises that only they could help me (false), and that I would be ok if I complied with all of their directions (false); just led to a lot of resentment and anger; but that’s probably healthy, lol
I ‘woke up’ out of this cult-like mindset (I don’t use that phrase lightly) and importantly learned to respect my own feelings. the day I understood to just allow feelings to exist, and not try to ‘improve’, ie: suppress them, I felt like I had discovered a personal superpower!
I also learned to respect my own judgement, and my own ability for self-care
Thanks for talking about this; professionals really need to look in the mirror more
I have a serious mental illness and had a disgnostic well established after 3 years of a good psychiatrist, then i went in short term psychiatry and saw a psychiatrist who decide all to put all these three years to the trash and basicly blame me for everything wrong with me. He saw me maybe 10 minutes but he think he had me figure out that quick. Now after 25 years of this illness the first psychiatrist was right. So many psychiatrist have a god complex, yeah like you say, the narcissist head of the family
Pretty much
The human psyche is so complex, and it plays out in real life.
Agree 100! Just because someone managed to pass an exam by studying old exam papers does not mean he can be in charge of another persons life!
They get taught how to run their own cults and operate from this narcissistic assertive bravado where you are the loser and always wrong and they are never wrong and if they are, it is fine and they bear no responsibility for bearing some of level and standard of care.
I dated a therapist who had lost his license for dating clients. He was crazy.
Gross! I dated a therapist too, who was an abusive, creepy womanizer.
I'm really sorry@@FM-by1rl
I believe that this is what Jung alludes to when talking about someone being “possessed” by their Persona. She was possessed by the identity that her title gave her, and could not reconcile the fact that she was more than said title. I see this happening all over our society and culture today.
Same here. She controlled what I could and couldn't speak about. The pressure of this almost killed me and one day I reached out to a suicide hotline for support. When I told her I had done that in the next session she got angry and yelled at me "DO YOU FEEL SUPPORTED OR NOT!?" I just couldn't tear myself away from her unfortunately and she became very abusive after this point. I felt powerless to leave and powerless to speak up. And when I eventually did speak up she mocked me or would yell or be sarcastic. Sounds far-fetched perhaps, but sadly not. I had been housebound for years so I had no boundaries and would accept poor treatment in turn for someone to talk to.
@@itzajdmting damn man. That really saddens me that there are practicing psychologists out there who get away with behaving like that. Have you found a better one?
@@Joseph_Hamilton no...I have huge trust issues now. I've become a hermit and outcast pretty much haha... Wish I was joking. It happens. PTSD can keep you locked or frozen.... Guess I have to admit that I actually suffer from this condition now.
@@itzajdmting do you have any intention of talking to anyone in your personal life about it? Don’t let that eat you up in isolation man. I know it’s scary to trust people, but it is necessary for all of us to have some kind of relationship with someone. Isolation has only brought me suicidal thoughts and overall depression.
@@itzajdmting I will say I’m much more introverted so I do need my alone time, but also I have to keep a balance of social interaction to test my theories out. Otherwise it can become a thought loop with a tragic ending. I’m not trying to tell you what to do. Only what has helped me. I know you and I are very different people. I am sorry to hear that that person caused such a rippling affect on your psyche.
I saw a therapist for 8 weeks. It wasn’t a complete waste of time, but ultimately I got a clearer understanding of myself and situation thanks to CZcams and google. I wanted to call her many times in the following year to say “Why couldn’t you see this??”, “Why did you say that?”
It is an enormous undertaking to be a psychotherapist, and like you say, at the end of the day, all we really need is someone to who will listen and genuinely care.
The idea of phoning your ex-therapist and critiquing her work made me giggle so much
@@natasham1684 Oh my god I've felt the same, so many times
There's a girl from my last job I just left who scares me.. she has a degree in psychotherapy but clinged to me like a lost puppy and put mine and her job at risk. She still won't leave me alone, and I mistakenly let her know too when she first came up to me when I was visibly distressed due to the loss of my family, and she now uses what I said against me, guilt tripping me into being her friend. Wtf, I hope she never becomes one.. and I'm not the first person.
I've been terrified of psychotherapist/psychologists my whole life, I've always seen them as creepy and manipulative. I would like to think that there are good therapists, but I'm scared to put myself in a situation to find one, because manipulative people are great at hiding their nature for long periods of time. This video gives me a similar vibe. I don't know if I should listen to it. Nor do I think I should ignore it. I especially distrust therapists who've written books, they always have something to prove.
Wish I'd have realized that before I went to the famous author who couldn't perform her own protocol
sometimes they share in books to validates others who have experienced the same trauma - yet have never had a voice to express it.
Nonetheless, I agree...some also write books to have an unchallenged, agenda filled story to push onto the public.
Depends who is writing it..
My experience of psychotherapists,psychoanalysts and psychiatrists is that they are inept narcissists. You have to have enough self-worth to be able to confront them and then move on. I finally found a highly qualified psychotherapist who was NOT narcissistic! He is now a professor and I still attend sessions. The previous psychoanalyst with a PhD whom I challenged and disagreed with, told me I had a persecution complex, had paranoia and was borderline! The Professor gave the diagnosis of CPTSD. That psychoanalyst was actually a cerebral narcissist who was extremely dangerous. Thankyou for your words and this channel. I am in Oz where the mental health system is in disarray. Your voice is needed globally to stop individuals who are extremely vulnerable mentally being exploited and vanquished to make some ‘therapist’ feel better about themselves.
This is really something that should be talked about during the educating of therapists. I'm glad you take the time to speak about such an important matter.
It’s not economically feasible to do that. The field of psychology and counseling attracts people with mental problems, so if these people were told they need to heal before trying to help others, the schools would lose the majority of their students so it is financially beneficial to the schools to just be quiet about it.
This is spot on, Daniel. One of my previous therapists did this to me and it created a big, big implosion, which left me "processing" it for a year and a half (which had never happened to be before in therapy). This therapist was also quite young (younger than previous therapists I had worked with), and he instructed by his supervisors to start employing interventions (which led to the implosion, etc) and I was basically told that I couldn't express myself emotionally in an honest way (for me), and that I would have to alter the way I expressed myself in order to spare his feelings (I had to protect his emotions). I guess this is what doing therapy with millennial therapists looks like? I don't like making blanket statements and I know there are plenty of millennial-aged therapists who can roll with the punches normally, but I was really shocked when this dynamic appeared. One of the worst clinical-therapy situations I ever experienced, I believe.
Recalling a therapist becoming angry and defensive when I became angry with the therapist - codependence reinforcement on not threatening someone else's image of themselves - crappy therapy. I for one, believe my healing can be faciliated by another to guide me in my own direction and that it is my job to create my own healing.
I can remember always getting that gut level suspicion that my therapist was just dragging his weight through the sessions. What a colossal waste of time that was. As always though, it's always a lesson in trusting your gut.
as a general concept, psychologists and counselors go into their fields initially because they have their own issues and they want to figure out themselves, a lot of them never figure out themselves but they get licensed anyway
If only there was a way for healers to be initiated into society without disconnecting the world from the self. Oh well..... . . . .
That’s selfish of them.
Had one of these who called me inmature for being angry at an abuser who nearly took my life. An Anger that took me 45 years to build up after a lifetime of abuse from parents and relationships and that people had asked me for years why I didnt feel? She lied when I tried to end the therapy aswell saying she was the only one with psychodynamic therapy in my area which I found odd so I looked it up and voilá, a whole list of others. "One of 400" my a**. When I ended it anyway, exactly as you say in this video, because I understood and foremost felt her being extremely damaging especially since I had open wounds that were new, she tried to get me back for a "follow up" after a few months despite me unchecking the box in the signout after ending it. I felt as if she tried railing me back in against my will. She couldnt accept I walked.
I'll never forget her other clients either. I've never seen such nerv wrecked people all my life; very well dressed and looked like sweet people but so destroyed in their nerves, one couldnt stand still, he kept pacing and another kept wringing her hands. This psychologist also had EMDR therapy and I cant even think about what she does to them during that. I suspect she enjoys hurting people. When I first called her, she sounded so cold and hard, just like the abuser. I suspect she was a psychopath that educated herself as a psychoogist to get paid to harm people for her own enjoyment. I instinctively KNEW that anger was helpful and a step in my healing and I was right. Anger has helped me keeping them off by startng to draw boundaries very very early on.
I started searching about this, psychologists who harm patients and it seems narcissist are drawn to the occupation because they get paied to do what they love; get validation AND abuse. So its just as you say; very common. You are 100% correct. I applaud you for this video, sir.
I was a psychotherapist for 4 years. I definitely had my own therapist and supervision as a therapist. I always tried to listen more than I talked bc I realized that often the people in their life don't hear them. I always tried to ask for feedback bc if I mess something up, I definitely want to be checked. I know I was not the best therapist but I mostly focused on trying to help whoever I was seeing feel validated and I tried to bring multiple different techniques and perspectives to their situation. A lot of times when clients went to therapy, they didn't have their basic needs met due to lack of support from the government (especially in DV and SA cases). A lot of programs had a lack of funding too if they needed financial assistance. It was definitely frustrating trying to help someone when the whole system is broken. For psychiatrists, I always asked the client how they feel about medication before even suggesting it bc the last thing I want to do is push my beliefs on them. Sometimes medication is helpful, other times it is not needed. I always try other interventions first bc I am really hesitant about encouraging putting medication in people's bodies. I think grad school didn't help me much when being a therapist. I read books on how to be a therapist and I learned more from the book (The Gift of Therapy by Irvin D Yalom) than multiple classes in grad school. Having a beginner's mind was definitely important to me each time I met with a new client bc clients are people and people are so complex. Not one modality is going to work with everyone even if they have the same diagnosis. Each person is different so treatment has to be different to tailor to that person'a needs. I have tried to be my own therapist and I realized that I can't due to my own biases towards myself. I'm not a therapist anymore but I plan to practice again in the future. Your videos always got me thinking how I can be better ❤
Did u get burnt out?
@@goldbrick2563 Yes. I worked in community mental health agencies with high caseload and little to no support from my job. I was put in situations that were questionable and dangerous. I hated seeing people get screwed over by the government especially in cps. I plan to practice again but under my own terms, not under a corporation that exploits therapists.
@@CharissaexplainsitallXD i'm glad u will practice again. I can tell by what you write that you were a real light in peoples lives and make a difference for good.
@@goldbrick2563 I appreciate that! I know how corrupted the system can be and how miserable it can be just trying to find a therapist that vibes well with a person. I think if therapists were trained better and had more support it would make a huge difference (and obviously remove the God like complex).
@@CharissaexplainsitallXD I agree with you that therapists training is often not adequate or suitable for the real work.I'm in the UK so our healthy system is different and often we have to pay privately to get therapy.It sounds like a bigger industry in America thorugh insurance schemes etc ? But what you have written does show alot of self awareness and humility and it is that humility which is most important and whoch so many therapists lack.They have not even sorted their own lives out or issues and yet think they can help others.(God complex)
It also sounds like it must be really frustrating when you know there are basic issues like housing or or having been failed by so many insitiutions like education or social services or have been exposed to such abuse and trauma.
I have seen therapists who were crazier than their patients.
My doctor committed suicide. Who knows how many patients he left devastated by his act. You are correct. We are often the healthier person in the room for therapy sessions.
I dated a girl whose mom was a counselor with a master's degree. The stories I could tell.
After doing exactly everything my cbt therapist suggested over the course of 10 weeks of intensive outpatient I wasn’t feeling relief, nor gaining insights or personal power. She then told me that I “didn’t want to get well” and I was “doing it to myself”. I was discharged right back into the overwhelming situation I’d come from with no admission of the ineffectiveness of the expensive treatment. I was told to stay in touch but she never responded when I did. I later learned that her friend/co counselor was sleeping with another client while I was in the treatment group.
The whole thing was amazingly agonizing and confusing.
There seems to be a good many narcissists in the field too. It’s a great source of money and emotional supply for them, and we the clients have to pay them for being gaslight! The Good ones are few and far between. Sometimes I think some can get burned out too…
I just want to say thank you Daniel. I find videos comforting, because you understand people and have been on both sides. God Bless you and yours.
I have to agree that most of my important breakthroughs and even the details of getting my diagnoses perfectly correct, fell upon me! I did the work. The meditation, the personal research, the books… Not to sound know-it-all, but the doctors never even asked the right questions! If they had, they would’ve helped me more, many years sooner! A sad thing to say!
so much yes to this.
This is a video that everyone in my university class needs to see... I'm a psychology major that is reluctant to go to therapy myself, as I just excited my own dissociative state. From an outside perspective, I'm falling apart... I'm very much a novice, but I think a lot of this profession is about letting go and just listening empathetically while the client gets to be independent and make revelations about themselves (like a human journal)
Funny this popped into my recommended. Very recently I went to a therapist for the first time in years for some perspective on a very stressful social situation. Instead of discussing the situation, they wanted to talk about depression, which I haven't experienced in over a year. When I tried explaining that now I pretty much only "feel down" every now and then when something bad happens (as compared to the general, underlying shitty feeling of depression) they suggested that my depression is coming "in waves". I just walked away with the really weird feeling that they were trying to push the idea that I was depressed on me. Instead of accepting the possibility that I'd healed without the help of medication, they seemed convinced that I was in denial of my own (nonexistant) depression. It was just odd and offputting...
In therapy training is where things get truly ugly. It's a game to qualify to be a therapist. There is a power game within the training that is soul crushing
Interesting can you elaborate?
I’m interested too
Yea me too I'm wondering about this.
I had one such therapist and it's scary that she had many other people in therapy with her, she was .. mad. Telling people what they wanted to hear and putting megalomaniac ideas in their heads. Convinced that she's a genius.
She was very angry and offended when I said I'm quitting. That was trippy. I was agonizing later over how many people she is hurting, legally.
@@s9o9 ah thanks for asking, yes i have a normal one, but I am not convinced that therapy can help me much further, it's just taking my time and money..but I'm ok, better than back then, thanks for asking!
Thank you for this. It’s scary how much damage a bad “therapist” can cause. I try to grow so I tried a therapy a few times. The last time I had a big fight with the therapist because he “diagnosed” me 5 minutes into our very first conversation. I obviously challenged him and he tried to push back but I didn’t take him garbage.
I stopped going to a therapist recently because she couldn't keep track of what we discussed previously. It's not a huge, busy clinic, but I get that I'm not the only patient. I had to keep reiterating things I really wanted help with.
I also felt like I was being mocked or not taken seriously enough? I dunno.
Also, platitudes or not helpful advice. After everything I've been through, I can't rely on hopes and dreams. When I say my life is shit and I don't have options, it doesn't help to hear "But, what if it's not? What IF it's possible?" when it's really not possible when I need resources I don't have to make things happen.
I think I need a therapist who specializes in C-PTSD and trauma.
I dated a psychotherapist who was also a doctor. Everything you say is 100% correct. They were one of the most mentally disturbed individuals i have ever met in my life 😂
I'm so curious how this happens 'cause a friend of mine is also in the same situation. Lol.
This scares me so much 😳 I was naive and just assumed therapists were nice!!
@@snoozyq9576 right? because they’re supposed to be licensed “professionals”
Nobody dares to question their position, so the ego runs wild. It's a strange awakening to the trust people place
on being able to get through med school.
😅
I have only once went for a 1h therapy session when I was 14 (my mum sent me there). This woman started listing confidential things she heard from my mum (all confidential stuff about me my mum shouldnt have told her in the first place) and making me feel bad about it - blaming me about the situation (my parents were arguing and shouting all the time) . I felt like it was a personal attack and left the office crying my eyes out it hurt so bad.
You poor thing.
I work in mental health and i would say its not even taboo, most coworkers seemingly dont consider psychologists and psychiatrists to be fallible. Through my own mindfulness practice a few memories from eight years of employment at a psychiatric hospital, began to surface. Amongst other things i have now accepted that "proffesional" colleagues have sent me little coercive, condecending and shaming looks and bodily gestures, for years. No open communication nor any feedback about how i might better contribute to helping our patients, just insinuating glances and sometimes even triangulation. Which triggers me mildly still and leaves me feeling shamefull and inadequate. I am counting the days until i can get another job, but i owe this channel for the insights daniel freely offers.
Those kinds of people shouldn’t even be near the mental health field the kind you mentioned that treat you horribly like that everyday
This hits home in a big way, more than I can explain here. I outgrew my psychiatrist/psychotherapist, and I called him out on many things (after 5+ years) and as you can imagine it didn’t go well. But I know better now and I have moved on. I had to create my own closure, I was not going to get a proper termination with this one.
How did you do it? Any tips?
Me too, when I left my therapist, she was furious with me, how dare I leave. We want a neater closure, but I think that's a fantasy. For me, leaving my therapist showed me how messy life can be, and sometimes you need to do things where you own your decision. Sadly the therapist is unlikely to say, 'yes, you have outgrown me, I'm blocking your healing due to fear'.
Oh wow. That's so personal... I was with my therapist for six years (every two weeks), and for the first 5 years I took everything she said as gospel. I had so many insights and got so much more stable. But then... Our relationship changed. She started breaking my trust, I felt more and more reluctant to be honest with her. I confronted her about some specific moments, but she would get defensive. I sat in front of her and nothing would come to mind. No topics for discussion. "I think I am fine, everything is good, honestly" Finally, I got the courage to end the relationship, and it felt like a bad messy breakup. She framed my "out of nowhere" decision as a relapse and a sign of crisis. *shrugs* No regrets.
@@daisy7066 The first step I made was I found a LCSW (who also was a Clinical Behavioral Therapist) and told them what was going on, and they “held my hand”, through the process, they helped me process getting away from my, quite honestly, manipulative psychiatrist/psychotherapist. I hope this helps ❤️
As a therapist I can say that sadly this is true of most therapists these days. There are still some phenomenal people in this field but I would be fearful to send my child to one I hadn’t fully vetted 😢
I have a bad sense of direction and I am clumsy, tripping or running into things. I’ve always felt shame about it but my friends think it’s cute. So my therapist told me that I’m making myself dumb by being like that to hide from people. That’s when I knew I had to walk out.
I'm the same. I've been told its probably more a lack of focus, being a bit spaced out.
Why I changed majors in college. I realized that most of my instructors, and outside professionals I met, couldn't even help themselves.I saw a lot of smug, delusional arrogance in a field where little was actually known.
At least my Visual Arts instructors knew they were troubled trainwrecks.
My therapist got off on being rude. She liked dishing it out but when I finally got tired of being nice and dished it back she said she couldn't see me anymore because the relationship had been damaged and trust could not be restored. I never trusted her to begin with and the relationship had been damaged by her. When people are suicidal this profession can be life threatening. I did exactly what Daniel was talking about. I made a personal commitment to never see another therapist and I have had to process on my own what this therapist did. I worked through alot of intense anger at her and everyone that's hurt and abandoned me. It's been empowering because I feel like my life finally belongs to me. Some of us got put into the mental health system at an early age and the message that we were ill got pounded into our brains. I was taught by the system and my family that I couldn't survive on my own. I agree that alot of therapists are very arrogant.
I quitted my training phase of teaching due to depression and sought out several therapists, trying to find an open spot.
So I talked to the head of a larger center of maybe 5-6 therapists and told him my story in brief words: I told him I felt repressed by the training, I felt like I lacked time for writing my novels, lacked concentration, had chronical headaches...
So, he nodded and asked:
"So, what led to this failure?"
I let the conversation end naturally, but I knew the very moment the uttered this judgemental, arrogant question, that I did not want to tell this person anything more about my life and rely on this man's help and "advice".
PS: Some might read this and think he was trying to give "tough love", or "stating things as they are", in order to clear up the basis of the future conversations - here's my thoughts on that:
You don't give "tough love" to strangers/ people you don't know very well. Yes, you sometimes might hit the nail on the head, but that is highly unlikely and the others times this approach will hurt those people even more - especially if they openend themselves up to you and are therefore more easily influencable.
The very first therapist I saw was one offered through the college where I was studying. I suspected I was suffering from some depression and described how I had been feeling to her. After listening, her question to me was, “So, are you someone who sees the glass as half empty?” I thought, wow, this woman is clueless - and never went back.
Since then I’ve had several incredibly awesome therapists, for which I’m so very grateful. Including an intern who very carefully prepared me for the ending of our therapeutic relationship at the end of his internship. He intentionally helped me process my feelings of abandonment, grief and even rage. It was very healing.
So the good ones are definitely out there. It pays to be selective and nobody should have qualms about switching therapists if it just doesn’t feel right. The problem is when you’re so traumatized that you don’t know how you deserve to be treated… or what is right and true…….
I only ever had one therapist out of countless others who I believe really cared about my well-being. She wasn't a "licensed" one but I think that's what made her so empathetic. She didn't look down on me or thought she was always right, it was a genuine conversation between the two of us, and she never made me feel invalidated.
But back when I started my first therapy, I already kind of knew it wasn't going to help me, I thought the problem was with me, and that some day, some perfect therapist would show up and therapy would finally work for me, because all of the other people around me said therapy helped them. But I've found that going my own way and helping myself has been way more beneficial to me than any therapist I've had. Most therapists did more damage to me than good.
I stopped going to therapy when I realized that I realize that I have a situation that most therapists can't Understand.
I grew up poor and neglected. Do you realize how few therapist can understand understand where I'm coming from or sympathize with me?
In fact, it has been my experience that Most therapist are trust fun babies
I have cptsd there is no cure but after milking me for other bs diagnosis and various meds I tell them nothing now my trust for mental health professionals out the window .
@areuarealman?
Me:
So, tell me about yourself.
Therapist:
Well, I grew up at the 2nd of 4. My Pops was a OBGYN and my Ma was a tenured Professor at the University of Chicago.
Me:
Hmm. Well, no disrespect but I was hoping to find a Therapist who's actually had some adversity in life.
Therapist:
You dont know anything about me.
Me:
I know as the offspring of an OBGYN and a College Professor you've never had to worry about food, shelter, clothing, transportation, or education. Sure, I'm almost certain you've been through breakups, losing family members, and studying for tough exams but those kinds of "problems" don't put your life in danger. Also, imagine dealing with all the mini issues you've delt with on top of not having your basic needs covered.
Therapist:
Money ain't everything.
Me:
But it's something. And something is always better than nothing.
Be careful who you take advice from. Dobt take financial advice from trust fund babies. Don't take dating advice from extremely good-looking people. Dobt take studying tips from high IQ (140+) people. Remember, the fortune live everyday of their life in a fantasy
Sorry you had that experience. I’m a therapist and that is so foreign from my experience (being a trust fund baby) and many therapists I know
@@deerinheadlights9784 did you have your basic needs met coming up?
I know what you mean exactly and have concluded that most therapists are socially & culturally ignorant and most therapeutic encounters are between the Haves & the Have-nots. So ignorant in fact I met one who interpreted my cultural observations on a trip as taking my problems ("delusions") with me....when I had studied social sciences, so intent was he on discrediting me in any way he could to maintain his false veneer of sanity and superiority (despite my finding out later he wasn't even trained properly). I then discovered he had drawn inspiration from my interests for his website.... Later I attained a Masters in social sciences which involved interaction, observation, interpretation, etc - with a high mark.....So my Masters must be the rantings of a mad person (who's never been diagnosed with any mental illness...) and all my course tutors must be deluded also...! Things are so corrupt that even his membership org in UK expects them to report themselves if they have a fitness to practice issue... and so on...
This hits home so much for me, Daniel. When I finished my degree I was supposed to be ready to be a therapist but I saw that I wasn't healed at all and that I couldn't help anyone until I made myself healthier. I have seen many therapists that are really unhealthy and I wonder how they can be helping their clients in that way. Thank you so much for another great video!
I resonate with this a lot! During a bout of severe depression and existential anxiety I went to one therapist who encouraged me to “just change my attitude.” And I was debating over a big life decision and after a few months he suddenly said “you’re ready to make the choice and move on”, then told me he thinks I should follow path A, and said our time together was complete. So I “moved on” and stopped seeing him.
A couple years later I had therapists tell me that my case was too severe for therapy to help and that I needed medication. So I went to a psychiatrist. After a dozen different drugs didn’t help at all, they told me that my case was too severe for meds to help and that I needed therapy. So what did I do? I quit both. That whole experience just left me feeling more hopeless and helpless.
If you do not mind then can you tell what did you do afterwards. Because neither therapy nor medication was helpful for you so, what did you do then?
This rings so true... I was in therapy for a few months during the pandemic, but something was off and I left. Now i know the probable cause of those feelings. Thank you, doctor.
Thank you for bringing up this topic in such a kind and insightful way. I'll be honest, after many years of different therapies, I've lost any admiration I used to have for therapists. In my experience, is not just being more unhealthy than their patients/clients but an extreme lack of self-awareness of their own biases and how these affect their advice and their understanding of a patient as a whole. Especially when dealing with patients who don't automatically take their word as a written law. They create an echo chamber where their perception of the world is healthy and when challenged, you are unhealthy. After talking to many friends who are studying psychology, I think most of it boils down to a lack of proper education and training in anthropology, theology, sociology, neuroscience, and overall cultural studies. It is almost like they lack the knowledge and interest to learn their patient's backgrounds beyond mom and dad. I had one therapist tell me how she didn't know anything about my family's religion (a very common one) and then proceed to tell me certain values were 'wrong' although she had just told me she had no idea about what those values meant - completely disregarding my experience in the process. This lack of general knowledge and intellectual curiosity makes it almost impossible to evolve as an individual and as a mental health caregiver, which is why most people 'outgrow' their therapist rather quickly. It perpetuates the idea there's only one 'healthy' way to live which often is the way your therapist currently lives their own lives (until they change their mind). At least that was my experience, with both psychiatrists and psychologists.
Extremely well-articulated. This should be printed up and sent to the governing bodies to mull over. The lack of self-awareness and bias that I experienced in therapy was shocking. I'm sure there are school children with much greater self awareness than this woman. She would also blurt out sharp judgments of me, things I've not really witnessed any other adults do let alone therapists. I told my story to somebody and one of his remarks at the end was that this seems like a sector that is quasi-regulated and I really thought that was spot on. A narcissist will finesse their supervisors with ease.
I am currently in a daycare clinic because of depression and grieving the loss of my entire family. It's an absolute nightmare how patients are treated.
so true and very confusing we tend to think that the therapist will be healthier smarter more intelligent and well rounded etc
You cannot be a therapist without having healed from abusive or toxic relationships.
Not true, many are narcissists,
@@lizp5449 you are both correct. Some are narcissists as you said, but as Kevin said there are also others that have psychological problems that prevent them from helping others . If they can’t fix themselves how can they fix others!
Well my Dad was a psychotherapist so I was always aware of this because he was a very manipulative, egoistic and even dishonest person. For this reason I have always taken therapy with a grain of salt.
I have ALWAYS said that almost every psychology major is just trying to figure out themselves. Whether they know it or not
Most are interested in figuring out and understanding people, and human behavior in general - which includes themselves, and SHOULD include themselves if they’re going to counsel others.
However, this video touches on those who focus on trying to understand and “help” others when they haven’t done the work to understand themselves, heal, and integrate their own parts.
It’s kinda like someone w a business major who doesn’t know how to run a successful business, but then goes on to become a “business coach” to others.
Nurse here - for a hot minute I lived with a friend who was studying to be a psychologist and almost finished. I went for drinks once with her and her fellow psychologist friends. They all stated they were doing “the most important jobs in the world” 😅the ego was shocking (side note I was working in ICU at the time!)
you working in ICU is irrelevant. My mental health providers have indeed kept me stable and alive. Are you forgetting the risk of SI in this patient population? Sometimes my providers were the only people I had contact with.
Long story short,, I was with a therapist for almost 5 yrs. 2 sessions a week. I have a dissociative disorder, so yes, trauma. Loads. This therapist started out too good to be true. Towards the end, he became exactly what you're describing. I had to leave. Walked out. I was devastated. He never even tried to reach out to make sure I was OK. With a new therapist now, so far, so good. But now I have to deal with the trauma from the previous therapist. Trauma from a trauma therapist.
The final straw was him insisting I go on medication. I refused because, been there, done that. He was not happy.
The second I started having conflict with my first therapist I stopped going to them. I grew up in the hood. For me, paying to argue is the stupidest thing I can do.
I was in a very dark and vulnerable place when I started seeing my first therapist and she was great but she didn’t take my insurance so she transferred my case to a colleague. Like I said I was very vulnerable at the time and I couldn’t talk about my problems without crying and feeling very ashamed and self-conscious. This new therapist would bring her pet chicken into the session and focus all her attention and energy on this chicken. She would get up and run out of the room when the chicken would poop on her desk to get cleaning supplies and sanitize her desk vigorously and obsessively. She was literally obsessed with this chicken to the point where I started crying because I felt as if she was mocking me by deliberately making me feel invisible in her presence. This is why I don’t seek therapy. I am traumatized by this therapist’s very unprofessional behavior.
I actually experienced this myself as a support worker. I’d always worked in charities or in some kind of caregiver role, but had so many issues myself and was in and out of mental health support. I still deal with this now as I work in a school with teenagers, doing well-being support. I realised last year though what was happening as I started to feel almost as if the students were “healing” me, which threw up a huge red flag so I took a break and worked on my own stuff. I’m finally feeling like I know what was going on with my own life, and actively look for ways where I don’t need to fill this “caregiver” role.
Some people slide right into the supply and status of the role without a disturbed conscience
@@sparrowbarnesmusic5864 Because most of the time I still did a good job as a support worker. As someone who has had issues with depression, anxiety and trauma, and has experienced the mental health system in my country, I was well placed to help the people I worked with. I was never manipulative, nor did I lie to my clients. If you re-read what I wrote, I said I took a step back when I felt that the balance wasn't right with the people I supported, I didn't carry on or put them at risk. I can see that you have suffered and I'm sorry for your experience, but there's no need to attack or hurt me based on your own judgements.
Some things I've learned about therapists:
1) Some take advantage of the dynamic so they don't feel the need to develop themselves after the degree. Especially older therapists are more resistant to trying new approaches and would rather refer you out than to change.
2) If you think you may have executive functioning issues with ADHD/anxiety/depression/etc; ASK if they know what the spoon theory is. If they won't bother in consuming content that their patients may find helpful (mental health content on youtube/tiktok/etc.) OUTSIDE of a therapy paywall, run away FAST. They will be the first to discredit any systems/tips/mindsets not made exclusively by "professionals."
3) If their online profile says that they specialize in everything, it means that they specialize in NOTHING. It seems like they'll just take on any client regardless of the type of care they need and won't be of any help other than general 'uh-huh''s.
My therapist almost drove me to ending my life. It took me 3 years to get back to somewhat "normal." I wouldn't wish what she did to me on my worst enemy.
Daniel, thank you for being here for us. You initiated my healing process many years ago, and I'm grateful for each and every video you make. Thank you for all you do.
How far are you on the way to being fully healed? Anything you learned during that could help those of us about to undergo the same thing out?
@@pod9363 I've been trying not to give up on life for many many years. I don't know ,really, there's this rare authenticity about Daniel you don't see often these days, purity of heart, if you will. I hadn't been aware of how terrible my upbringing was and that I suffered from PTSD (brutal rape victim) until I came across Alice Miller, Daniel and Dr. Janina Fisher. There's plenty of work involved but I have changed a lot, my window of tolerance is bigger and I've learnt to observe my emotions, befriend my fragmented selves and not discard them. I came to peace with those fragmented selves of mine that helped me survive in the past and learnt how to strengthen my 'normal' self, i.e. the one that wants to live and thrive. Daniel and Alice Miller have helped me not to damage my own child, and Dr. Janina Fisher (only through her books) has taught me how to manage my hypervigilant and always terrified self. I hope that helps, if only a little bit ❤
I’ve been supposed to start therapy now for about two years and my psychologist keeps pushing off my appointments, she’s been be very rude and straight up told me she won’t give me what I want (all I want is a five min chat with someone) she told me I’m demanding in front of others and told me that I need to get sober, which I did and she still refuses it and told me to wait weeks, when I asked her how long she said “how long is a piece of rope” and that she will continue to stand her ground, I’m currently going through withdrawals, a major breakup and having a hard time, she literally said out loud that the point is that she will push it off so much that I don’t need her in the end… apparently see real of her clients agree that she’s arrogant and rude. It’s nice to know that I’m not crazy and being rude. I even apologised to her!
For the past year I have been trying to work through trauma instilled in me by a psychotherapist. One of the hardest parts of trying to heal and process though, has been trying to find someone who believes me, and I had started to resign myself to believing that it was my fault, somehow I attract psychos, and no one was going to ever get what I had just gone through. Watching this video, where you seem to explain every detail of what I went through, was the most validating and healing experience I think I have had to date.
Thank you for showing me I'm not the only one, breaking my shame loop, and giving me the opportunity to realize that this was on the therapist, not me.
I'm glad to hear you found value in this video, Kissy. I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. I only wish I had more time to respond to all the lovely people who have commented on this video. Wishing you (and everyone here) the best! Daniel
If you want to talk about it more, i am open to that. I have had similar experiences, and i still have a hard time accepting that narcissists exist since i have been so used to just feeling shame about myself instead of disgust for others.
@@pineappleflow2876 Strictly speaking from experience, going from shame of self to disgust of others is one and the same. It's a viscious cycle. One or the other will not help you, or give you better insight.
We all go through trauma, we all use narcissism as a coping mechanism even though some fall more into the covert category and some in the psychopathic one, depending on their circumstances and personality.
Recognizing my own narcissism resulted in a massive breakthrough that marked the end of 20 years of pure misery. Today, I fully recognize I subconsciously used narcissism as a mask even though I was also an empath and cared a lot about people. It's super sneaky.
Narcissism shouldn't be demonized; it's a natural, impulsive coping mechanism. The more we recognize our own, the less we attract situations where other people feel compelled to mirror our hidden narcissism back to us.
This was a tough pill to swallow at first but it saved my life.
@@sunongral5605 Thanks, but i didn't mean disgust as a coping mechanism, but more like recognizing the terrible things that others have done to us and putting the shame back where it belongs. Healthy anger and disgust, in my experience it heals, i think you are talking about the subconscious anger that a traumatized person has.
@@pineappleflow2876 Ah, yes! Psychology is so still so young and fluid it's hard to properly communicate sometimes. I wanted to make sure you were not stuck in the feedback loop of shame and disgust that trauma puts us into. It took me a while to get unstuck from it so it hits me when I see people mention those emotions.
I found that redirecting my anger not towards my ego or the egos of my abusers (we're ultimately all victims, so someone has to break the cycle), but towards the source of all things stopped the serpent from eating its own tail in my head. The mind is very symbolic and metaphoric, it's helpful to work with that!
I wish you all the best on your journey 💚
thank you I really needed to hear this. I've had 5 significant deaths in the past year and a half, one of which was only 4 months ago (a parent that I caregave). My therapist keeps circumventing and steering me away from grieving. crying, mourning talking about the death or my loved one or mention the parent's name. I am actually in more grief than when I started because I cannot talk abut the loss. I think I going to drop her as a Therapist. Honestly I would rather go without.
The best therapist I ever had was one that told me I didn't need therapy. That I had all the tools I needed, and I need to get out there and live life.
I'd been in therapy for over twenty years. It changed my life getting the go ahead to just go out and work on life without the crutches of therapy. So, so freeing.
I'm starting to realise that my therapist is seriously invalidating many of my concerns and issues because she actually has no clue how to help me. In fact, she used those exact words in a moment of not thinking about what she was saying. Since then, I've really been super observant in our sessions and I see that she simply tries to normalise every issue so that I must feel like there's nothing out if the ordinary going on in my life. Essentially she's gaslighting me. It has taken me nearly a year to figure this out. I'm cancelling our next session.
I'm so sorry. That sucks.
& BINGO!!!!!
This is it.
This perfect succinct gem is exactly what I've needed for awhile now....
Thank you, Daniel!
"Starts to acknowledge their loss, starts to integrate all these different feelings... Steps forward into making sense of what they are going through now and where it came from. Really making sense of their childhood history, of the traumas they suffered, of the losses and the abandonments, the neglects and the violations, and the abuses they suffered.
This is how people heal from suffering. This is how they make sense of suffering and get their life back. Reconnect with the truth that is deeply within them underneath their traumas."
My last therapist was terrible and it sadly took months for me to realise. My sessions were venting sessions and I felt stuck when I didn't get the deeper help I needed. I was told many times to take medication because "it would help" and my depression was worsening. The best part is that I told them from the very beginning I don't want medication nor need it. When I resisted, it felt like I triggered them by invalidating their recommendations. In the end I said I would take a break and try a 12 step program but they were really cautioning me. They even kept sending me hotline numbers for suicide after every session in the end! After 10 months of my 12 step program and a better therapist, things are going so much better. Not sure if it was a red flag, but the bad therapist told me they were going to therapy sessions themselves.
I believe in this period of time, it was the therapist who was intensifying my suffering by invalidating me and pushing unneeded help upon me because I was emotional in sessions.
Thank you - I have just recently come to the horrible realisation that a therapist I was seeing for over a year was narcissistic. In hindsight, the fact that my narcissistic mother was the one to introduce me (only later did I finally see that my mum was narcissistic) did I put 2 and 2 together. Terribly dangerous as to have a therapist like this as like with most narcissists, they will validate you and often be quite helpful at first, but is always their own needs that ultimately come first. Thank you for this video as it's a blind spot for sure.
The thing about the arrogancy you mention at around 3:20 is a feature not just therapists but most doctors have in common. I once had really bad psycho issues due to an infection. I went to at least 4 general practitioners, two gastroenterologist and even was in the hospital once because they suspected appendicitis. At one point, I wanted to see a psychotherapist but here in Germany, all of them were booked out because of lockdowns, Covid vaccines and measures, and Covid making peope sick. So I ended up buying some antibiotics on the internet and that was a game changer at least in terms of my gastrointestinal and psychiatric issues.
What all of those doctors had in common was that they were prejudiced (thinking of me as a hypochondriac) and were not willing to learn from their patients as for them, that might have meant accepting the fact that sometimes their patients know more than they do even without having gone through medical school or university for years.
Wow, this video comes at a time where I’m wondering what my sister’s future clients have in store. She’s in total denial of her lifelong toxic and abusive behaviour, and just announced she’s going to become a therapist.
Oh no!😂😂
Typical narcissist ! They have no cure
I had a therapist who couldn’t get out of the role of “im the therapist” so when i started to solve my own problems i would schedule appointments and tell him about the progress I’ve made on my own and he would diminish everything id say to and try to bring back up trauma from my childhood that I already worked out in order to put me in a space of “you’re the client and im helping you”. i can now see that the man was not well. (also for context he was an older white man and i was a young black girl)
Have NEVER personally met a “healthy” psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, etc. There is an episode on Law & Order (original) where 2 are married & I’d bet that’s the way most of those married couples are. My psychologist ex married a LICSW & people reach out to tell me how awful they are even though I divorced him over 45 YEARS AGO! CZcams has been a godsend for dealing with narcissists #1 - The Little Shaman & #2 - Dr. Ramani.
'You need medication' = 'You are threatening my arrogance/denial too much'. So true. They demand that you tell them really private and personal stuff (like child sexual abuse), assuring you that you will feel better after you have shared your story with them (like in the Jeremy Kyle show). Not surprisingly, this isn't the case but most therapists are clueless about trauma. Talking about it makes you worse... and the therapists (who often insist that the traumatic events cannot have happened, especially if the 'alleged' abuser was respectable) conclude that you need drugs.
Having studied psychology, Buddhism and meditation over the life time of trauma etc I lived through, I definitely knew more than ‘most’ I spoke to, and also the advice they gave me , was mind boggling and misguided. More and more , nowadays, it’s just another cash cow, which is abusive also.
I’ve always known this but incredibly bad with words thank you for having your own distinctions categorized it’s extremely helpful.
I’ve had two therapists:
The first, I don’t remember quite well but she was a bully. I told her I had anxiety and she kept asking me why, when I told her there was no reason, she just kept saying why, accusingly, as if I should know, and I was lying to her. I told her I felt like a glass of water and everyone could see through me and she laughed. I told her I was scared to sit alone and decided to sit in an open seat by my classmate and she prodily suggested I had a crush on him. She talked over me with my mother in the room and I started crying. And when I left she flashed me a knowing arrogant smile that I would stop the sessions.
The next, was a woman I started talking to immediately, I hadn’t gone to therapy in a long time and I had sort of built a lot of walls, but I started unloading all the past trauma, the harshness of it all, she seemed totally uninterested and unphased, I looked at her and I could tell she was the type of shy person that needed a chance to speak, the more I spoke about my trauma the more she was angry and annoyed she didn’t have a chance to speak. I didn’t understand why she got into therapy if she hated listening to people. She didn’t note anything I was saying except when I said I thought I might have a mental illness, she took great interest in my knowledge of that. She offered me no advice or reflection.
The scenario you painted about wanting to confront your therapist on being less healthy than you, I can only imagine how that registered. In their mind, they're going, is he challenging me? Is he pushing boundaries? Then, with some humility, How do I appear unhealthy? What did I say to convey that I'm not healthy?
Many therapist are just good educational students and them being therapist doesnt equal emotional or social compotence.
Carl Rogers talks about this a lot. In his time, the most famous therapists were rated very low in empathy and this is often detrimental to the therapeutic process.
Still true today