Does Adding a 2nd Subwoofer increase your SPL?
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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2023
- Does adding a subwoofer increase your SPL? Have you ever wondered how adding a second subwoofer and or driver affects your final SPL? You don't have to any more. In this video, I'll break down a few simple rules that will help you know how much theoretical SPL you should gain.
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In theory this is all true, however..... In most car audio cases decreasing resistance increases distortion and electrical demand. Also a huge difference between home and car is wave cancellations, technically in a car it's better practice to use more power to less drivers. More drivers equals greater chance of standing waves and if you don't have enough power to break them up you'll have lower spl. That's why opening a window or door is popular in car audio competition as it releases the standing waves.
You're clueless dude. Keep your delusional thoughts to yourself
Distortion is dependent on several factors, not just impedance ohms. You can remove distortion by using thr ohm law and a multimeter. Each amp is rated for a certain voltage before the amp begins to distort the sound. If the amp is tuned to the right voltage, there will be zero distortion.
While this guy was giving generic advice, doesnt mean hes wrong. Lowering the impendance will pull more power and like stated above, if you know what you're doing distortion will not happen
@@keithprinkey8575 I like Nick a lot very smart guy. Note I didn't say he was wrong. Simply pointed out a difference between home audio and car audio.
The count of drivers has absolutely nothing to do with "causing" standing waves.
Standing waves are almost entirely affected by the listening room dimensions and acoustics.
In fact, multiple subs are advantageous in a room for reducing the effect of standing waves. In a car, well, with current tech and acoustic materials, not much can help once we go above a certain volume(db) threshold. Cars are not the best listening environment.
Even if you don't add output, you may end up reducing distortion by keeping the driver within its linear operating range
Great point! Especially for designing a speaker.
@@Toid well i'm going be happy when i got my P-A Dual 18inch Subwoofer coming at 6400 Peek Watt with The RMS of 1600watt and i'm going to try this stuff out And do a experiment and the db of subwoofer is about 138db
Yep! You're increasing displacement with dual drivers while reducing the amount of pistonic excursion needed to produce the same amount (SPL) of a single driver thus lowering the distortion due to over excursion.
Double cone area = +3db
Double power = +3db
Doing both will gain 6db.
10x power = double the "perceived" sound. And then you have the "Inverse Square Law". 😆😂🤣
i like to have less power per driver but more of them to compensate which results in good sound quality
I asked my wife "This is all Chinese to you, isn't it?" Of course her answer was "Yes." It would be for me too until I found your channel! Thanks for all of the education you've gifted me with.
As a professional sound engineer, subs are always a fun topic. In home situations there wouldn’t be many cases where I would recommend multiple sources playing the exact same audio from different points in the room. This will give you summation in the center, but cancelation in the majority of the rest of the room. The only way it would add something is if your subs are either both; very close together, in the same enclosure, or you are playing content that actually has different LFE content for both subs. These 3 cases are the only times you’re entire listening area will benefit. Unless you have 1 chair in the center, than you can get away with wider setups.
Literally just reread this chapter of CookBook!
If my receiver has two sub ports will that work for a two subwoofer setup. Also How would I add two side surrounds for side left and side right.
I made my own variation of the Tekton MOAB. I just added a sub into the mix after watching John at Rel explain how to dial it in. I started with Triad MTMs (100 hz high pass) powered by my BasX then added 2 Marantz 15" woofers powered by my Marantz SR7500 (low pass 100 hz). I could hear the woofers struggling at super high volume so I added two more 15s and that did the trick as they make natural, effortless bass down to 40 hz. Then I dialed in my sub. I wasn't listening to how much bass it produced but instead adjusted the gain based on the peak performance of my MTMs.I dialed in the 15s that way as well. There is now a huge improvement in frequency response with crisper highs, fuller mids and deeper bass. I'm so happy how it turned out. The woofer boxes are 6' high, 2' wide and 1' deep.
About your sub boxes, you're probably getting internal standing waves and thus phase cancelation if the front baffle is parallel with the rear baffle!!! Did you do a frequency sweep test to see if there are any null points???🤔
@@fookingsog Yes. I actually started to use both of my subs but when I did the frequency sweep, my JBL sub has bass resonances between 50 and 60 hz so I am only using my Boston Accustics sub. But yes, the 15s are in their original vintage Marantz SP1515 boxes with the mids and highs disconnected so the sound of the enclosure can be heard but when I added the 2nd pair of 15s, they all have to push half as hard plus when I dialed them in, I lowered their gain 10% and I now don't notice the sound of the box. The system sounds perfect to me but obviously no system is perfect. Maybe it is my old ears. I paid $500 for the 3 pairs of speakers and 2 subs, all used if course but it sounds better than the Forte 4 to me (bigger, louder, just as clean and a tick more laid back on the highs). But if you have an extra pair of new Sonus Faber floor standers, I'll trade you.
Great video
This depends only to the amount of speakers in the system.
A doubling ot the number of sources gives a increase of +3dB.
So only in 1,2,4,8,16 etc gives +3dB.
Doubling the distance from the sources However gives you a loss of -6dB
Another nice video, bravo! So there are some thing that is worth mentioning that will be useful - apart from electrical point of view we have acoustical COUPLING. It is a fine way to lower the speaker array lowest frequency response (in most type of speakers) and generally add some decibels because of increased efficiency. Another thing is placement - more subs, less nodal excitement. And corner loading will give additional oomph. I use 4 subs in this manner and their measured output with 4 x power is more or less with several dB more than only 1 of them with theoretical "x4". The limit of multiple subs is..."possible" comb filtering, but with long wavelengths it is unlikely to happen ;)
The general thought is 3db per driver. Also 1st
You were on it as soon as it came out!
Definitely makes my wallet a bit lighter.
Before watching the video, here ist what I guess:
If you colocate the subwoofers, i.e. they play the same signal at the same location, ou should get 6db of more output everytime you double the number of subs +amps. If you spread them, the situation ist more difficult due to phase issues so it might be something between 0 and 6db.
But below the lowest room mode, you should get room gain so roughly +3-6db every time you double the sub, because wavelengths are so long
Now that I have seen the video, you were talking mostly about wiring.
I thought about placing different subs run in parallel or an separate amps.
I once ran my subs out of phase for a year without realizing until 1 got unplugged and the bass increased!! Oops.
Out of phase wiring is OK if you're running an Isobaric configuration!!! 😆😂🤣
I am confused. In your diagram of wiring the drivers in series, it looks to be wired in parallel. The diagram looks to be parallel wiring. Or am I wrong? 🤔
Not that I see. It’s possible I made a mistake and out the wrong diagram somewhere. Do you know the time stamp? Otherwise, at two minutes, it shows series wiring. You connect the negative to the positive of the other driver.
A new SB sub came out. 18" Nero. Was wondering what kind of build it can be used for.
Not new, this is a 2022 product i beleve.
I have the 21 inch version, 4 of them. If you going with just one, it can be use at about 30hz, if used below, you will get some distortion and over excursion if used at reference level. If you get 2 or 4 (it depend with your listening volume), you can dig deeper to 20hz. These sub are from the PA world, they are design to punch you in the chest with 50-120hz kick, and they do!
The best i think is to use them from 35hz to 80hz, and use a proper home theater sub (Ultimax dayton audio for example) for things below 35hz.
I Hope you understand my bad english
@@BihannicGurvan the PA subs the i have is 1 pound of dual 18 inch at the peek of 6400watt and the rms is 1600rms and also the db138 ngl
@@BihannicGurvanIdk their xmech seems to be quite high, they might have half of excursion of dayton um18 but thats like 3db difference, much less if you go to sealed 21". With room gain you could most likely hit 10-5hz with two of them
@@wadimek116 You are right, you can, but not if you want reference level with no audible distortion… below there resonance frequency, the distortion rise up really quick.
@@colourbasscolourbassweapon2135 how much SPL at 20hz without audible distorsion at 2-3 meter from you?
To many factors involved to say for sure, depends on the subs, the amp, the power plant, etc. Theoretical would be +6db.
This will often fall in the theory vrs practice problem especially in the small chamber of a vehicle but that's why those guys geek out with it. Personally I never cared about a # I just want it to be able to be loud so I went with 4 subwoofers.
Two speakers will always sound better than one. And you can lower your ohms with two speakers
Best subwoofer box for dayton spa500 plate with dayton RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm plss help me 😭😭😭😭😭
Always though it was plus 3db per doubled speaker so 1=3 2=6 4=9 and so on so basically doubling per each 3db.
To clarify this is assuming all speakers have the same power to them.
My Answer no added spl just better bandwidth and more consistent SPL in that bandwidth, this changes with enclosure designs, room gain and Power increase but bare bones just adding a extra sub will increase the SPL by maybe a unheard difference at best but increase SPL across said bandwidth current bandwidth i.e 40-100hz will sound the same just more flat. On to the vid as again this is more a guess mind you.
It takes power to make power. Less resistance = more power
Post watching the video comments: the impedance stuff doesn't take into account box rise, where you might be able to get away with a 2 ohm load on a 4 ohm stable amp, depending on how you use the system. You also didn't touch on properly powering the amplifier. If the amp is already starving for power with a single sub, the second sub isn't going to fix that.
I'm pretty sure when most people ask this they mean "I have one mini price 12" 150w subwoofer, if I add another how much SPL will I gain"
yes and by 6db if in parallel
Short answer, yes. Long answer - there are too many variables, even outside of amplifier power and impedance to accurately tell in any given situation. Is there enough airspace? Can the vehicle's electrical system provide enough power to the amp(s)? Remember, it takes power to make power. Also what is the enclosure design? Has it been custom built for SPL burps or is it a musical enclosure? You can subtract drivers and go louder simply by changing the enclosure! At the end of the day, all of the 150-160db+ vehicles almost always have multiple subwoofers, sometimes in the dozens count. There's a reason why they cram so many in the space... moving a LOT of air = SPL.
that's why i have two tangband w5s
the only subwoofer i have is dual 18inch at 1600watt and the of 6400watt of peek power and the db is 138 ngl
Iron Law equivalent to 3db ... average
I read the Loudspeaker Cookbook and 1957 Popular Mechanics issue on Home Stereo, I was 12yrs old... my brain 🧠 was still soft 🤪🤪🤪😊
I think you missed a pretty crucial point with the series connection:
Sure you didn't increase your output, but you *doubled your efficiency*. Same SPL for half the power is pretty significant for many electrical systems
I think what you’re referring to is sensitivity and not efficiency. People use those words interchangeably, but they’re actually referring to sensitivity. Having said that the same rules are applicable. You’ll gain +3 dB of sensitivity for adding a woofer and -3 for increasing you impedance. If you want to simulate this you easily can with a program like Xsim. You do not get an SPL increase with the same wattage.
@@Toid, It seems like this video of a real-life test of this exact scenario counters that assumption.
A series coupling maintains SPL while halving the current output of the amplifier. Ie. power is halved for the same acoustic output.
czcams.com/video/Om_1IYsqPWg/video.html
@@TokeBoisen 4:26 seconds of the video you shared is exactly what I just said and shows it and then clarifies it at 5:50
@@Toid, maybe I just misunderstand you. That's not on you
@@TokeBoisen that’s why it’s good to be able to talk to these things out. No worries at all.
Energy is Energy unless it is out of phase it will ADD!!! The rest of the video depends on application & gain
Theory is closer to HVAC how many fans move Air Hot & Cold to get the right temp at the body\Ear because we do detect the body vibration also
Yes. Just like adding a chick to the thumbnail that makes click bait. Sure. I have more SPL than you EVER could imagine.
wrong wrong wrong
added 1 subwoofer and gained 60db
I can hear a difference in stereo listening when a sub is with each tower vs have 1 sub and 2 towers. Maybe I’m crazy, but i swear the sound is more even and less separated in how it hits my ear.
No you lose
SPL, sound pressure level.
Yes, you do
The end