How to ESCAPE the EXPAT BUBBLE? ... and make DUTCH FRIENDS!?
Vložit
- čas přidán 10. 05. 2024
- For expats in the Netherlands, it's easy to make friends... as long as the other ones are expats too.
But making Dutch friends and stepping out of the expat bubble, that's quite a challenge. Learning Dutch helps... but that's not enough!
These Expats share their experiences!
More #dutchculture videos in the following playlist:
• How do the DUTCH celeb...
Video produced by:
Bart de Pau
(online Dutch teacher and founder of the Dutch Summer School)
Editing: Nicolas Balbontin, Claudia Macchiavellot
Music used under license: Korolkov, Golden_Sound, MValentino
Video was recorded at the BLC Dutch Summer School in Drenthe.
To know more about our:
- Dutch Summer School: dutchsummerschool.nl
- Dutch Winter School: dutchwinterschool.nl
- Learn Dutch online with Bart de Pau: www.learndutch.org
Just be yourself is the tip i can give. We, the wierd dutch, dont really care who or what you are, as long as you are genuine.
It's mostly true, but when it comes to friendships, the Dutch are very reserved. It's easy to be in the outer friends circle but bring tilt friend is something else. I live here since 2002 and have made friends from all over the world but not one Dutch friend. And yes i fully speak Dutch and I'm married to a Dutch person.
@@HassanDibani that what i mean about being genuine. And since you are married to a dutch, you have Dutch friends.
@@HassanDibani As a Belgian I have Dutch close friends. It was no problem, I just had a click with them.
Joining a group of Dutch friends is difficult. Because we can all speak English very well if required, however we will resort to Dutch 90% of the time. But if you can understand Dutch to such a degree that you can follow a conversation and respond in Dutch or English, you'll be part of the group within no time.
Also as mentioned, everything is planned. We are really not that spontaneous when it comes to social activities, not as in "the door is always open". It is, but announced :)
Thirdly and quite important is to indeed be genuine, don't try to fit in too hard and be yourself. And also, we say a lot of stuff in your face. So don't be offended too easily, but do have boundaries and express those if necessary. We are open to all cultures and the most important thing in a friend/relationshio is mutual respect. I respect you, and so you should respect me regardless of disagreement. Agree to disagree, and move on. No need to keep dragging that along :)
Update Your smartphone I totally agree. I would add that foreigners should not feel intimidated by the directness and rigidness of Dutch people. The Dutch really value honesty and are therefore very direct. They don’t like it when people gossip about them behind their backs. The rigidness just has to do with all the planning.
There is another aspect to consider. The older you get the harder it gets to make new friends. People have their own lives and are not necessary looking to spend time with yet another person. Most expats come here as adults (same for me). The Dutch already have their lifelong friends while the expats lost their social network after moving.
So when we meet other expats, they in general have some free bandwidth for new friends while the Dutch are fully booked.
Finally someone who understands 👍
Hahaha jup I'm in that fase of "I know enough poeple now"🤣
Salam Hassan, Irani hastid?
@@petertraudes106 not the first time it happens :) I'm from Marrakech, Morocco. not from Iran.
@@HassanDibani Marrakech is een erg mooie en bijna betoverende stad, een stad waar veel culturele varieteiten samen komen, bijna net zo mooi als .......Amsterdam
To me there is a difference between being friends, and being on friendly terms with someone. There is a Dutch phrase 'de kat uit de boom kijken', which basically means that you observe a situation from all angles before taking action, and I think that this is something quite typical for the Dutch. Of course there is the spontaneous people who will always jump headfirst into any situation, but I think most of us are more like 'we'll see how this goes, let's take things slowly.'
Collegues aren't friends for Dutch people. The bonds between friends grow slowly over a number of years. So don't expect your Dutch coworkers to become your friends.
Maybe a like on facebook once a year.
i have coworkers who make it a point not to connect outside of work.. but at work they're really friendly. so yeah :)
There is clearly a disconnect with northern Dutch people and southern Dutch people. In the south were quicker to go out with new people I think and get to know new friends. Atleast in my experience it's like that.
@@yn6292 true enough, but extend this to Rotterdam and Amsterdam as well.
My brother and his coworkers are all friends his kids call them uncles and such so it’s not the same for all dutch people though
As a Dutch person from a small village I can advice you to join local sports clubs. In the southern regions, carnaval is a big thing, so finding yourself a club to build with with.
When you hate playing sports, one can always become a ref or a volunteer of some kind. Just watching the first team every week can net you relationships in the village. I have played with Polish and Albanians that barely spoke Dutch but have made themselves part of our community, it is helpful to try to use Dutch, since some Dutch people are shy about using their English. As I am currently an expat in Malta and speak English fluently there is no language barrier, but I don't exit my bubble, because I don't do these things here, because I am going back to the Netherlands soon and have no interest in doing so.
im born in the south of holland (brabant) but my parents came from south-holland but we always were treated like oh they are from holland so they are different....city folks. i hated carnaval i only went once, they give you beer but the next day you're still the "outsider" because you behave in a different way.
I am from Brabant too. Carnaval sucks bigtime. You right.
In the Netherlands when you call someone a friend this is realy a friend not someone you met 1 day ago. Friendship means something in the Netherlands
Same in Germany
yes, that's true. A friend is someone you can call in the middle of the night when there is something wrong. It's different from someone with whom you go to a bar occasionally to have a drink. Friendships have to grow and you have to know that you can depend on someone.
Same in Croatia
We make a difference between friends and acquintainces
I've been friends with two expats, or..better said, acquaintances
One of them was German, she was very friendly. She observed the Dutch culture and sometimes pointed out a difference that was funny to her. She was never disrespectful (she didn't start huge discussions about things, she mainly 'observed' us interestedly) and was in for a laugh.
Usually whenever we met, I'd speak German, she'd answer in her best Dutch.
That way we both learned each other's language. And she moved back to Germany, that's why we stopped talking.
The other one was from Egypt, but we had a culture-clash when it came to a lot of things.
One was asking for bargains and discounts on the street. She was haggling like her life depended on it, even when the rommelmarkt-woman said that the pants were 50 cents. That was just embarrassing, she has more money than I have and didn't always stay polite either.
She said she was interested in 'learning more Dutch' but all she did was take selfies with Dutch things and send them to her family on Whatsapp.
She'd borrow (grab) my sunglasses or hat or scarf without asking on Kingsday and take more selfies.
Sometimes I carefully corrected her, if she used a word that wasn't Dutch.('You probably meant 'probeerde', right, when you said; 'Geprobeerdert?') but then she'd shrug her shoulders and shake her head saying; 'Whatever.'
I'd try and get her eager for things like fries or kaassoufflé, but she'd instead just buy her home-country's dish in another shop and then say; 'You Dutch are freakin' weird, it's raining, why aren't you using an umbrella? Are you a water-person?'
I mean, I think she was just very frustrated and angry and didn't like the Netherlands and secretly just wanted to go back home.
Which is fine, but then don't ask me to help you with your Dutch pronounciation.
the Egyptian girl sounds like a pos
Long live the Nederlands, long live the Dutch....you are great and proud people. I have always wanted to learn the langauge as I was first exposed to it when growing up and listening to Radio Nederland. I think learning any language for native English speakers can help us and help us to learn our own "at times" weird language. Best Regards to all Brian!
its also healthy to be bilingual they say it can help prevent mental issues like alzheimer
To make friends takes a while. Your attitude is fundamental.
im dutch but i dont think we are that different, i mean where ever you go IF you speak the language or make an effort to learn people open up more easily.
A couple from the USA asked me on the streets if I could show them around my city
So I did, first time I walked through my city from a tourist perspective. It was much more fun than I expected. Took them on a 3 hour or so tour
That was years ago now but we've remained friends till this day. So that's one way to befriend dutch people, just ask a random dutchie to show you around
I spent my first 2years in NL in the buuble with other bits then I learnt Dutch at my own pace, at first people just talk English back to you but as you Improve it happens less and less. Its helped me get jobs in front of other foreigners and with dating locals, don't worry if you think you're not picking it up just do a little a time you'll learn more than think.
I moved to holland from usa in 2018...want to say thank you Bart for these awesome videos!
Tennis is a magical sport for socializing indeed! I think getting a drink and food and sit with your tennisteam on the same table as your opponent is something you do not see in many sports.
I have to agree with them, as a Dutch person I have lots of contacts when I'm going to school/work, but after that I usually don't meetup that much
Ik vind de Nederlanders erg vriendlijke mensen. Ik was eigenlijk van plan dit jaar terug te keren, maar het coronavirus verstoort mijn plannen. Wat jammers!!! Wees veilig iedereen!!! ( I’m practicing my Dutch, feel free to correct my mistakes)
Je Nederlands is foutloos. Hopelijk zijn we in juli weer van corona en kun je weer naar Nederland. Succes!
DUDE! You just created a fancy new dutch word I think. Respect. "Jammers" .... Wat jammers.... Dat klinkt leuk en hip! Jammers is not a word. It should be jammer. Still Jammers is very funny to say I think. Heel netjes kerel. Kom snel terug. Met jou kunnen we lachen denk ik. Succes!
These are the nicest and most humorous filmpjes dat ik ken. Wondelijke en wonderfull mensen. Top!
"everything is planned far far ahead"
Me: what's an agenda again.
i guess it just depends on some regions in the netherlands where more ppl plan ahead.
I feel like this is something that comes with age. Not everyone does this, but as people grow older they tend to have less time because of work and hobbies.
I don't get the agenda thing. I'm Dutch, but the last time I even touched an agenda was during school. These days, basically anyone I know or are friends with can just knock on my door or call and if I don't have important plans I'm up for hanging out right then and there. Maybe it's because I have more free time than most.
The difficulty to make new friends though, yea, I get that. I personally make it a point to keep work and private life separate. I might talk about some stuff from my private life at times, but nothing major really. And I've only made one real friend during my last job. Mostly because he lives on the same street as I do. He's from Syria, and at work I was basically tasked with helping him get used to the work place and help him with translation (english to dutch as his english was a lot better than his dutch) as he seemed to enjoy talking with me. And things just went on from there really. :P
For me, planning is more convenient, because I have work, two kids, friends, and a huge family to think off.
There're 6 people living in this house, so I have to be considerate.
So we need to look at 6 schedules to male sure we can invite people over to hang out without disturbing the peace.
But usually, when someone walks in, they're more than welcome to have some coffee or tea.
And yes, people do just walk in through the back door, completely ignoring our front door, because this is a small town.
hahahah ja toch? dat is denk ik wel een vooroordeel en ietwat achterhaalt
@BesteKanaal1 It depends on the season and the person, tbh. Some of my friends are difficult to meet with so I'll plan things like six weeks to three months in advance with them, a lot of people my age are at different universities and have deadlines and social agendas that correspond to their uni and then planning ahead means they know to plan around meeting up. Then again, my friendgroup is spread across about five different cities so planning is always a bit.. interesting
maybe I think its a city thing. Mostly Amsterdam and big cities. Where they always pretend to be spoanaaan en gezellig mar what they really do is plan everything super full to show everyone how busy they are. And then eventually you get a chance to hang out with them and go for a quick thee.
It sounds like you are thinking very much in boxes. Private and work certainly go together. You cannot rule out risks. You see people as business objects.
5 weeks in advance for coffee? Do i live in the wrong Netherlands?
No one in the netherlands invite you for a coffee over five weeks.
Be direct in your speaking to a Dutch person. If you don't show interest in getting closer to a Dutchy you don't really know, they won't start the relationship, especially with foreigners. A bit what Augustus said. And don't try to use small talk to make conversation, we don't really like it. Tell us an engaging story (can be about anything as long as you're involved in it) and we will be more interested to get to know you more.
4:16 that guy is totally right
I feel like this making friends thing is a general problems for expat. I am Dutch and living in Sweden and me and other expats I know here have the exact same problems. But from my perspective I think the Swedes are much harder :')
I personally don't like all the planning, so recently I tend to be more open to 'Heey, got something to do this evening?' and at first my body just kinda wants to turn inside out or sink into the floor, but after a minute or two I say 'Sure! Where and how late?'
It really opens the doors to some interesting friendships to me.
Living in New Zealand I have no kiwi friends even though I am outgoing. It's because most are British, right up themselves. I am also a random speaker but they look at me as though I am mad
I lived in NL for 18 years and now in BE for the last 10. They are definitely easier to meet and form friendships than Belgians.
Hi! I have a Twin flame who speaks dutch! Lol so beautiful
so true
The same goes with Spain and any other place in the world, despite the cultural side of it or the "supposedly better disposition of the people". My dutch girlfriend came to Spain to live because (not the only reason, also weather and blablabla and other personal choices of course) she claimed that it was really difficult to make friends in the part of the Nederlands she is from. But she has had the same group of friends for many years and she hasn't been able to make new ones here, because the spanish have already their group of friends too. The same thing happened to me in London when i went there for a year. And the very same thing happened to me inside Spain moving from a city to another. It is difficult to get into any other place because locals have already their group of friends and it's quite difficult to get into any of these circles. Even at the workplace it's difficult to make real friends being local. I have made mexican, argentinian, brazilian, italian, dutch/flemish, portuguese and canadian friends living in Madrid thou...So, in conclusion, it's always gonna be easier to make friends when you are the local if you´re willing in my opinion.
I mean...I am Dutch and even I wouldn't know. I have some friends from highschool and uni. Some from the sportsclub as well, but that's about it. Now that I think about it, the best way is probably to do stuff together. Some kind of sports club can be a good bet. At some point, people just have enough friends though I think. past a certain age you aren't really making an effort to find new friends because you have plenty of old ones.
play a teamsport
Leer Nederlands en probeer het zo vaak mogelijk te praten. Probeer Nederlandse vrienden te krijgen die je aanvaarden in hun kring, in hun taal.
Here is another Dutch Perspective for ya: you'll have to make a decision: Do you want to be entirely on your own, and maybe get to know a few other expats, then by all means stick to English.
Do you want to mingle with the Dutch, get a good taste of True Dutch culture, and leave those other expats for what they are for a brief moment? By all means learn Dutch. Even though the vast majority of the Dutch population speaks more or less English, it really is Dutch which is the native language of The Netherlands. Dutch it is and Dutch it will be.
To the Dutch it is like this: OK you speak English, so you do not take the trouble to learn Dutch, so you must be temporary here and you must be on your way out soon. We (The Dutch) lost interest in this person.
Or: Hey well so nice of this foreigner to learn Dutch, he or she respects this country and its inhabitants and this person obviously wants to mingle with us: let's invite this person into our lives!
English is a foreign language to us Dutchies it is a way to talk to strangers whom want to stay stranger, or maybe to a person who really want's to learn Dutch but just arrived... Let there be no misconception about this: English is to talk to strangers and Dutch among friends! This is The Netherlands after all and our language is Dutch and absolutely not English, although to strangers we will talk English.
By choosing English as a language, you choose to stay a foreigner ! And so doors stay closed for you! Doors that will open for you when you speak Dutch ;-)
I have experienced it as, and still experience it as very difficult to make meaningful, deep connections who actually want to hang out and share time on a regular basis. Or people who even want to spend time regularly. I think people already have their own things to do and perhaps their own best friends/family and/or are not looking for more or deeper connections/friendships.
Just a tip
Go and do things you like to do and you will meet people in Holland with the same interests
There you will meet your friends for life.
Taal is identiteit. Als je Nederlands spreekt ben je lid van de club, indien niet ook wel maar minder.
Ja.
I don’t really agree. I got an English friend who speaks 0 Dutch...me and friends don’t really care if we have to converse in English just for him. I think you’re being too harsh and generalizing with that statement. Yes, it’s more difficult to get included on a similar level as Dutch speaking individuals, but not impossible.
@@ccccbbbb it is not so much about the ability to communicate with dutch people (they all speak english) but more about getting an new outlook. People who speak various languages blend in, are listened to more carefully, are able to understand all sort of subtilities non speakers will find difficult. For instance when i was 20 years old i studied Portugese (volksuniversiteit and summercourses Universidade de Lisboa). I travelled many times in Portugal and Brasil. I reached a point where it is not directly obvious for a Brasilian that i am not a native speaker. This is always a moment of great pleasure and a feeling of home coming. At a moment like that the interlocutor identifies him(her)self with me. This is what i meant to say. Learning the language of the country one has chosen to be ones home adds to a feeling of belonging, of well being.
@@ccccbbbb i must admit however that for a variety of reasons the dutch language is very difficult for native english speakers:
1. Native english speakers have never been exposed to other languages then english.
2. Dutch idiosyncrasies are very peculiar, such as for instance the difference between de and het, the use of the words "er" en "ook" and all sorts of expressions unique to the Netherlands.
3. Pronuciation. G, sch, schrrrrr. It is allmost an afliction of the throat! Plus the vowels eu, ui and ij (ei). Try to teach those to an english speaker.
@@petertraudes106 That's why I highly encourage the further internationalisation of the Dutch culture. Logic is not a term associated with the Dutch grammar.
I do not recognize additional social barriers between my foreign friends, me, and my domestic friends as I do not expect them to fully adapt themselves to us. It's a two-way street in my opinion, so out of respect and interest I rather speak English to assure everyone is included. From a foreigner's perspective I agree with you, but to what degree social bonding occurs depends on the characteristics of every individual in the group. With that being said, my friends and I have low nationalistic temptations and rather stay open-minded to any individual no matter their characteristics as long as they have similar interests and virtues.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if domestic individuals have an international focus and interests, the gap closes itself if the foreigner has that same mindset. Therefore, in my scenario, I do not recognize your first statement. I do not identify myself with my mother tongue and nor do (most) my domestic friends. Nationalists would definitely agree with you and yes, I think the majority does so too, but there are always minorities.
I hope you get what I am trying to say and I hope I understood what you tried to explain as well. I respect your thoughts and it is flattering if a foreigner speaks Dutch, but I do not think it's recommendable in every case. Practically, it would be best if everyone committed to just one language XD...logically spoken that would be English since most people have basic English skills...
As a duch person, I love to be open and help others. But I kinda feel that I might bother them. So I usually wait a bit until they give me clear signals they want contact lol. And I mean dutch-level clear signals >_>
I think the difficulty of making friends doesn't necessarily depend on the country. Some Dutch people are pretty open to making expat friends, for instance Dutch CZcamsr Wouter. However, others might stick to more traditional ways. It really depends on who you meet. However, if you don't attempt to even become engaged in any form of activities such as visiting museums, different shops, attending clubs, etc, it would be difficult to make any type of friends, regardless if it were expats or not.
I feel like having common interests is incredibly important here in the Netherlands. A lot of more traditional Dutch people pull out their agenda for everything because they want to fully dedicate time to everything they care about. Aside from work they obviously got some hobbies they want to engage in and the way to get off that agenda and into someone's life is to be a part of that engagement so spending time with you and their hobbies no longer needs to be mutually exclusive. Life here is never on pause but that doesn't mean we don't get passionate about things and if you find that thing you both are passionate about people are much more inclined to pull the rod from their ass.
Luckily with the newer generations, things are a lot more flexible, the pace is higher than ever but things need to get done when it needs to get done and no longer on a strict 9 to 5 schedule and weekends off. As a result, the younger generations are much more comfortable with flexible timetables and honestly, these days mixing and matching activities is pretty much a must if you want to have enough time in a day anyway with the way things are now.
The way Jun talked reminded me of that Japanese man Yuta. lol
The Dutch expat bubble is not so bad actually. Dutch people can be difficult at times.
im a dutch boy and i only use a agenda for school and not for other things in my live
I speak dutch im from belgium and even for me its even more difficult to make relationships with people and not for only one night if you know what I mean here in belgium than it is in the netherlands so its not really that difficult if you are used to other countries like belgium..dutch people are really open
I enjoy watching these videos and then reading the comments Dutch people leave. Every time i realize how much stereotypes are just stereotypes and that at the end of the day people describe others based on their personal experience.
Whoever travels anywhere probably should keep this in mind and not get too intimidated (note to myself), just observe for a bit and use general advice until they know who they are dealing with individually:)
Ughh, I didn't think I would be in the Expat Bubble but I'm definitely in it
Could you elaborate more about your situation? Where are you living? I'm interested
@@jaaptendijk7192 I wanted to live in Utrecht but since I don't speak Dutch yet, it's harder to get a job there (at least related to my bachelor's degree) so I'm in Amsterdam now. Only hanging out with fellow countrymen but wishing to expand my circle... I guess I'll get there once I start my Dutch lessons soon and do my Master's. But in the meantime it feels strange to live here and not talking to a Dutch person not even once (even at my job there are like 2 or 3 Dutch people only, out of hundreds).
It helps to have a Dutch partner and children at a local school.
Ik heb inmiddels flink wat filmpjes van Bart bekeken, maar wat me eigenlijk opvalt is dat de Expats allemaal Engels spreken, Nederlands wordt eigenlijk zelden of nooit gesproken. Mijn Nederlandse expat vrienden en expat familie spreken de lokale taal. Ik woon in Duitsland en spreek vloeiend Duits. Mijn Franse, Nederlandse, Kroatische, Syrische en Poolse collegas spreken ook Duits. Mensen in mijn vriendenkring die Expat zijn, doen ook heel erg hun best de lokale taal te leren, of dat nu Spaans of Manderijn is. Ik kom uit een familie met veel Expats, en ook zij doen dat.
Maken Nederlanders het deze Expats het te gemakkelijk om Engels te blijven spreken?
The 'Expat Bubble' is awesome. As for Dutch people, they are the most less spontaneous people I've ever met. Relationships amongst people around the world don't build up upon an agenda. Only businesses. That's what makes the Dutch such good traders. It's the only way they know how to function.
That's actually a good point. Bring friends means being spontaneous. If we have to pull up an agenda before we are able to meet it becomes work. A robotic type of friendship.
I think you have a point, the dutch are not very spontaneous let alone exuberant. And lets not mention the word sensual, totally unknown.
Felipe (the brazillian) has a bit of a Dutch-English accent😁
Am i the only Dutch that never used a agenda i walk just to my frinds
you are certainly not the only one. i never use an agenda or even a watch.
I like to meet foreigners. A friend of mine had a girlfriend from abroad... and she was in an integration programn with many other foreigners from different countries. I liked his (& her) new friends inmediately.
And of course I spoke English too. But quess what?! These foreign groups did stick together too. But not even them, but the girls/ women who had a relationship with those new Dutchmen.... they too kept in their "golden cage" and were hardly interested in meeting more Dutch people outside their group!
Yes one of them is still on my FaceBook.
So it is true, I did not have to worry about the same things they went through....but some kind of blocking me....
What do you think I will do after that?
Sure I am still open for friendships with foreigners... , but I will not take the first step again.
Conclusion; Foreigners are just as bold to Dutch people, as some Dutch people are to foreigners.
I have enough problems on my own... to fascilitate more friends, that ignore me, to help them!
I am Dutch and don't understand this Agenda thing.. Is that just an Amsterdam thing or something? I'm from Brabant and only use my agenda for professional appointments. I know when I have to work and I know when I don't. If someone asks me to hang out and I have time, sure. Why would I plan that in?
In Brabant just go to the Local pub and party Be openminded
but the brabanders are not really open minded. i was born in brabant (roosendaal, lang in het dorp Dinteloord gewoond) but my parents came from south-holland but it was really hard for them to fit in because we were seen as "city-folks", it has changed a bit now
I don't have friends anymore. There are people who are kinda like friends but we only meet or text once or twice a year. 😂 And i moved a lot in the last 4 years so i didn't even have time to form real friendships. It wouldn't be a problem for me to not have those kinds of deep friendships. 😅
I think people should make a difference between acquaintances and friends. People, generally speaking, have only a few real good/close friends (some for live) but most of the people they know are acquaintances.
However, nowadays even people on social networks, like Facebook, are concidered friends just because they had some contact via internet, they don't even have met in real life.
It depends on the bond, and how much you talk and share. Sometimes, such friendships can become really close because it removes social stigmas like popularity and people can be more sincere and less afraid to show their true selves. I used to have a best friend like that when I was younger. On a slightly different note, I met one of my best friends at an international event, we hung out for four days straight and stayed up the last night together, and then remained in contact, mostly via whatsapp but also the occassional skype call. Eventually we had an exchange trip and it's been over a year since I met him but we're still close as ever.
It eliminates borders. Sure, meeting up irl is awesome- but the internet is sometimes the next best thing. It can also help when people are physically unable to leave the house (due to various reasons, from simply being busy to a chronic illness or something) or have severe social anxiety, and can still help them make and maintain (new) friendships
Well I guess I am one of the Dutchies that will just try to communicate with you if you were to just say hello xD
What is the girl talking about at 2:24? It sounds like "meet app" but i couldn't find it
It's Meetup
Most of the dutch speak pretty good English so language is not really the thing to make friends. When you are older sharing a hobby like painting, photography or doing sports is the best option to get friends. This is also the case for Dutch people.
After your past days at school, you don't make much friends anymore at random places.
exactly participation is the key, if you stand along the sideline ppl leave you there
Is dit een ding in Amsterdam dat alles zo gepland word? Hier in het oosten maken we geen planning en komt er zeker geen agenda aan te pas bij sociale dingen.
Jup lifestyle van hoogopgeleiden en yuppen volk. En dat is waar die expats zich in Bewegen
Thankyou I will moved soon, we will see us
What if you're a firm introvert and you really don't want to make friends? I mean, not even from your own country?
eitughtueir then you just don’t make friends 😂
eitughtueir then stay in your parents’ basement. Nobody will force you out. If you’re happy, then you can make friends online.
If that works for you, it is ok and you will be happy. If you are not happy with that, you will think up something else.
You just have to ask them if they will help you to integrate and making friends, and i now they will do this. Now they dont, because they dont think about that. And if you will help by speaking better Dutch, you can speak in Dutch to them, and they have to answer you in English so both can learn to speak the language better. And you have also a laught sometimes about it.
just do a sport or something else to grow more to each other as friends
Easier said than done. You can have good contacts with people here but you're stuck in the outer circle. Found sports or other stuff like that doesn't help.
Dutch people should also get out of their own social bubble.
Niek Nooijens I agree..., but I have to admit (especially because I’m an introvert) that is sometimes difficult to approach a foreigner if their attitude is very defensive or aggresive.
@BesteKanaal1 I just think it is important to respect each others' personal boundaries. It is not really a matter of being afraid, but hugs and such, for example, are not gestures I would appreciate from someone I barely know. I meet a lot of people from Spain and Portugal during my times at foreign universities and I find them quite excluding. In my experience they are not very open and are usually the last to start talking. I don't know if that is due to the lack of English skills, shyness or something else, but that often makes it difficult to communicate. Ofcourse, these are primarily no social environments. I noticed that Russians are surprisingly easy to approach and often very nice. To what extend am I an example of a Dutch guy though. It's impossible to put everyone in the same box. I think it may rather be a matter of finding the right Dutch person to talk too. Some will indeed purposely never open up to foreigners and some will do the opposite and approach them. I think in case of the Netherlands it is very divers. What I do think; Dutch people really value their comfort-zone. Even though I am in touch with a lot of foreigners, I often find myself socializing with people I have come to learn and understand, instead of broadening my network. I hope I understood your comment correctly. If not don't hesitate to elaborate your point. I find it an interesting conversation.
@BesteKanaal1 Yeah, I think we have a common consensus of Dutch behavioral patterns when it comes to socializing with foreigners. I really recognize the feeling you have when you come back to your home country and have to...sort of start...over with making friends. I have been struggling with that a lot, because like I said...I am an introvert. I force myself to do so though. Eventually it pays off, but it takes some effort. Even between friends I hang out with before I leave move on and because of that you just miss out on a lot of things that are going on in their lives. So once I come back it's not as a warm welcome as I would get if I stayed.
Anyway, it's interesting what you said about Russians and politics. I am currently working with a group of internationals including two Russian guys...and because we hang out afterwards, go out, and travel together through France we are bound to get to know each other. So they were bound to find out that I was gay when we were chatting about home. They didn't mind at all and their attitude towards me didn't shift either. Later I spoke with them and they told me they thought it was brave of me to be open about it. They did mention it was not very common in Russia, but they assured me that most people do not mind it. Some may not regard it as ''natural'', but everyone has their ways and should be respected for it, they said. Indeed politicians are rather conservative in Russia, but it isn't as bad as the media makes it out to be. I think we can both agree that the liberal, capitalistic media tries to land as many bombshells about Russia because it attracts readers. I honestly wished that more people in the Western world would think like them and do not question matters that do not impact them at all. The American priest Steve Anderson (I believe that was his name) states that governments should execute criminals, LGBT+ members, and members of opposing religions. So in my opinion evil takes forms like that. Rather than what the media tries to make out as the antagonist of the world.
I am drifting off from what this was really all about though XD...I just think it is a shame that Dutch people are sometimes so difficult to approach. I also feel like a certain sense of distrust amongst the population itself has grown since the crisis in 2008 and everything else that followed including events as massive immigration flows, higher criminal ratings, terrorist attacks and international tensions. I'm under the impression that everyone has at least been exposed to certain negative aspects of any of these and caused them to be more anxious. So to come back to your earlier statement, yes perhaps Dutch people are more scared, but I feel like that is a development due to a lot of those events. It wasn't always that way in my experience, but maybe I was just to naïve to see it back then.
@@ccccbbbb I have just read your comment and I'd like to share my opinion as a Spaniard. I agree with you when you say that people in Spanish universities are very excluding. I saw it myself. There are two main reasons. First, English wasn't taught correctly in the past years, and we're shy to speak it to other people. I try to do so, but I get very nervous and I make lots of mistakes in pronunciation. And secondly, Spanish tend to be with their current group of friends. We usually sit next to the Spanish friends we already met before. It's our defect, but foreigners also make their mistakes. Most part of Erasmus students talk to other foreigners and they don't even say "hi" to us. They speak in their own languages and we feel excluded from their conversations. They usually sit far from us in other rows so we don't have the chance to approach them. So... I would say that Spanish and foreigners exclude each other at the same time. Although there's an exception: when there are only one or two foreigners, they integrate well as they get closer and they're very welcome to stay with us. When there's a group of three or more people, they don't talk to us. It's a weird situation. But it depends in the character of each one too. In my case, I am more open-minded and I try to get closer to talk. Foreigners don't talk to my classmates, but they sometimes say "hi" or have a small conversation with me. I'm sorry that your experience in my country wasn't the best. 😒
V E R Z U I L I N G
0:30 oh you'd like to learn about Holland? So not The Netherlands xD Since ' Holland ' is just 2 provinces in the whole country hahaha. They are also called ' Hollanders ' whilst the rest are ' Nederlanders ' And yes not even every Dutch person will know that because we've become so mainstream and it's easier for others to say Holland instead of The Netherlands xD
They are right if you speak dutch. It becomes 10x easier
GEZELLIG DOES NOT MEAN NICE!!!!! We Dutchies should be proud that we have a word like that.
5 weken van te voren plannen? ik schaam me voor mijn landgenoten :/
Naja als je een druk leven hebt..
I know quite a few people who work fulltime, have a family and plan their weekends full with social stuff, so it's not rare at all to have to "book" them a few weeks in advance.
Rule 1: Learn our language.
Rule 2: Learn and respect our lifestyle.
Rule 3: See rule 1 & 2
You don't make friends in a big city and you're better off moving to a town or a village. I found this to be the case all over the world.
I mean, making friends with expats doesn't sit well with me, unless they know Dutch pretty well and my interests then yeah sure lets chill sometime.
But i don't want to talk English to people in The Netherlands, just normal Dutch..
If expat choose to be here and living here, then they should learn Dutch traditions and our customs if they want full meaningful interactions with us.
Nothing personal, but you choose to be here, so expect to give something in return in order for people to accept you..
Yeah, learn the language, go to clubs, sport events or what have you and you'll be able to make meaningful friendships in the long term.
I was born in the Netherlands and I don't have any Dutch friends... making Dutch friends is almost impossible because of their unconscious racism.
Act Dutch, get Dutch friends.
Als je Nederlands leert word je wel geaccepteerd
You haven't met the Belgians...
1 dag in Amsterdam geweest staat natuurlijk gelijk aan alles weete over heel Nederland ik was der laast ik kon nog geen eens in het Nederlands 'n hamburger bestellen...
Planning things like going out for coffee so far ahead just seems so...wrong.
Skevi S really just depends on how close you are to the person. With close friends we are actually pretty spontanious but with ‘colleague’ like friends there’s just more distance and the bond is not that great so going out is like doing a chore. You don’t really wanna go but kinda don’t wanna be rude so we go anyway.
Well, I guess I'm the only Dutch woman without that agenda. I hate them, agendas....
Me too
and for the people that say 'holland' please stop because its netherland not holland
say my name.
uit 2018
Give me a break.The definition of friendship for the Dutch is not as meaningful as you might expect it to be. If you’re superficial and independent you’ll be fine.
I met my best dutch friend in a coffee shop, i was looking for a male prostitute but he ended up helping me, for free. X**D
This clip would have been more meaningful if they tried to share there ideas in Dutch...
Expat = Migrant
Oh God.🤦♂️
Pathetische titel!