Immediately calls people who disagree with them kids, racists, potentially nazis and discriminating against them based on gender. I can just tell this person is a joy to be around.
Honestly, feel bad for them. Probably have no friends, grew up in an abusive household, and being like that on the internet is the only validation they get.
@@ricktheweeb5382 The weebs are oppressed for a good reason. (There's a pdfile problem in the anime community. I'm not talking about l0li and sh0ta, I'm talking genuine pdfilia)
@@zeal9442 that is in every community it just they aim that hate towards the weebs for the loli and stuff that we get in animes and hentai so basically the weebs are the scape goats to hide people in other communities who are pedophiles as well so you were close but still a little bit away from why we are hated and oppressed plus we dont really fight anyone besides the people in our own community so that makes us even more of an easy target
There's something I learned called "The 'Stop having fun!' guy." Basically they don't like it when someone is having fun playing a game, even serious/dark games. It's annoying, it makes them look like toddlers, and I want a game to be fun so I can remember it more. Games can be serious and fun at the same time. We should all know that
@@RaeneTheFaeriePersonally I'm of the opinion that people like this idiot who thinks games shouldn't be fun lose the privilege of having any pronoun other than "it". Don't want to treat people who disagree with you with human dignity? Well I won't treat you like a human either.
The "games don't need to be fun" thing actually makes perfect sense for people immersed in the "everything is political" mindset. For them, a miserable game is 'good' so long as it preaches the right message, because the message is the sole determiner of value.
It's these same assholes who probably hated the fact that you can actually leave with the gold in the Dead Money DLC of Fallout New Vegas, as doing so would "miss the point" of "letting go". As for myself, I always spit on the "moral" of whatever story I'm reading. Christmas Carol? An economist wrote a full article about how miser Scrooge at the beginning of the story was actually better for the economy than generous Scrooge at the end of the story. Pinocchio? I note that how Pinocchio's personality was at the beginning of the story (that whole deal about his father not being around to tell him what to do) is exactly how Liu Shan was at the end of Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Difference is that Liu Shan never regretted those words.
When I first heard that statement I took it from an educational standpoint. Math and reading games would be great if they were fun, but engaging with their audience is more important. I remember enjoying reader rabbit, but I don't think I would call it fun as an adult. But that was clearly not the actual message of "games don't need to be fun" after seeing the rest of the video lmao.
At some point we have to collectively accept the fact that even though TLOU was a 10/10 masterpiece, Druckman decided to go off the deep end destroyed the franchise with the sequel and nothing he will ever say or do again is to be trusted
"Still acting like you're 11." Back when i could ignore bossy girls and NOT constantly worry about being evicted for "problematic" attitudes. After a long day of work, who wouldnt want to feel like they're still 11?
@@simonhailom2477Life is way too short to ignore fun in your life. Screw these loser redditors. No better way to relax after work with a icey beer and a good game to enjoy.
This is why gatekeeping is moral and correct in ALL hobbies. The bar is ridiculously low to get in either way in being just be nice and actually be a fan of games or w/e the hobby is.
OP going all pseudo-intellectual saying fun is childish just shows how childish they are. Saying you have to abandon fun to be mature is an extremely childish take. 🤣🤣🤣
Code Vein is another game that could be considered fun for players of the Soulsbourne variety but has a depressing story and moments. Danganronpa is known for being over the top and wacky, but have depressing moments throughout that has a fanbase who enjoyed it and flocked to Rain Code when it was released that goes even further at times.
Really, reminds me of the former Square Enix's CEO's New Year's message where he stated 'some play for fun, but we want to focus on play to earn' in their push for normalizing NFT's in games. The concept of treating games not as fun entertainment, but like a stock trade, a way to earn money through NFT's.
The problem with comparing movies that aren't fun to games that aren't fun is that a game needs gameplay to keep it engaging. A movie can be engaging with it's story alone, but with games the story is usually broken up by gameplay. And gameplay can only be engaging if its fun to play. That's why so many games have simple excuse plots. Gameplay sells games. An engaging story is a great bonus.
The thing about movies is that they too generally need to be fun, they just don’t have to be happy. Horror, tragedy, even some kinds of thriller and such aren’t meant to necessarily invoke happiness, but they are meant to be fun for other reasons. If they’re not fun, they don’t sell, and even the bad ones that do sell tend to be ones that become fun because they fall into the “so bad it’s good” category.
"If you think food needs to taste 'good' you have the brain of an actual child." Possum Reviews did a pretty good job at showing the stupidity of the whole argument.
Fun is enjoyable. It causes pleasure - especially in active forms, as thrill, exhilaration, challenge, elation, happiness. Being interested or being engaged appeals to curiosity - learning, it's about things we want to know, see, learn, examine. Things that draw your attention. Whatever reasons - be it for pleasure, or e.g. for professional interest or satisfying anxiety. Main thing of fun is providing a pleasure. It is fun = it is pleasurable. But being engaged doesn't equal to being pleasured. There are games that have a very heavy and depressing narrative and atmosphere. Games that are quite stressful. To the point of not being fun. But you are still engaged by the atmosphere, story and the world. Its the same with books. Some people read books for fun(lighthearted stories with happy endings), and they cant stand tragedies. Other people love to read books that are tragic and very depressing, with nothing that resembling happiness in sight. Does person who reads depressing and tragic story is having fun? Or is he engaged?
@@alexfaden3091 What people with your opinion aren't grasping is that people aren't using the word "fun" for it's by-the-book raw definition. They're literally just saying that the game is enjoyable. Whether it be enjoyable because of it's gripping yet depressing storyline, or enjoyable because of a lot of action or whatever. It's literally just people getting a dictionary out and people trying to talk like non-autistic individuals. It's fun = it's an enjoyable experience. That's it. It isn't that complicated.
At least food is necessary for survival Even if the food tastes bad, if you gotta eat it, you would still have to eat it Games, on the other hand are not a necessity Why would anybody want to waste their money and time on a game they won't enjoy?
@@ForTheOmnissiah Oi, don't bring autism into it, this is just idiots thinking they are smarter because they grabbed a dictionary, and cant realise "Fun" works for sad games, and enjoyable experiences don't need to be sunshine rainbows and candy.
You can have dark, nihilistic storylines about a dystopic society meant to create heavy emotions and philosophy...and it still be _fun_ . Fun to play, fun to think about, fun character interactions. A game can be _serious_ and fun. These "no fun allowed" weirdos need to touch grass.
Case in point: Half-Life 2 The entire world has been taken over by an alien civilisation, they put stuff in the drinking water to make people forget, they take all your possesions when you get forcibly moved, they constantly moniter you. You get separated from your family unless you join their policeforce, at which point they give you a few cybernetics, decide to go further and become a soldier and they scramble your brains and change your anatomy, go even further and you're more machine than man. If you dare resist the aliens you get killed if you're lucky, if you get caught they lobotomise you, cut off your limbs, remove your vocal cords, remove all non-essential organs, and force you to work for them as basic drones. A town that was a base for the resistance got shelled and most of the people living there turned into zombies that are still alive and feel everything, and the ones that didn't try to hide away and survive in this now ghost town The world has been drained of almost all of it's resources, most animals are extinct except for a few bird species and maybe pets, and there is a supression field that stops the development of embryo's, making the humans that are alive the last of the species. All of that depressing shit, and it's still one of the most popular games ever made and fun to play.
Or space marine. An action junkie film about living in a dying empire where you do everything right only to lose anyway. It's dark, hilarious, and fun. Or mass effect, where a plant puts people in pods and mind controls them. While they fight and resist and you kill them because you are out of grenades. It's horrible and dark and makes you wish you could've been better. It's a nice dark piece. But the gameplay and story are still 'fun'
That is a pretty modern take though. Through most of history media's purpose was to make you a better person. Any entertainment value would be an unnecessary addition.
@@williamjenkins4913 And throughout most of history we believed that being a serf for a patriarch was a good thing. (Not to mention 'making a better person' usually just entailed 'making you follow the word of God' for a good chunk of that time)
@@l1ghtd3m0n3 Did you just equate self improvement with slavery? Like way to hella make my point if you feel that strongly about not having 24/7 entertainment.
Games don't need to be "fun," they need to be engaging. The overwhelming majority of that engagement is because games are fun. Engaging "un-fun" games can exist, where the content can be emotionally harrowing, unnerving, thought provoking. But the people _demanding_ "un-fun" games are actually referring to hipster-trash that allows them to flatter themselves and their shallow aesthetic sensibilities.
outcast, alien isolation, they are meant to give you a horrifying experience, yet the games are fun. Lazy developers making shitty reasons for their failing games using buzzwords, that's what this is.
@@jase276 I think you read my comment wrong or just missed the point. I literally said those games are fun. That was just a simple example, there are many other examples with games having overwhelming amount of negative emotion yet they are fun.
That’s the automatic sign that you lost the argument, when they can’t think of a coherent argument to defend their (frankly stupid) opinion and immediately resort to hurling insults.
That's pretty much all people like that do. Make statement. People disagree. Call people who disagree . Then claim you win. That's their entire playbook.
It is fun watching them try that to Eastern people however, since in Asia they will get shamed instead and their victim cards turn into evidence instead of helping them.
"We don't use the word Fun, we prefer Engaging..." has the same vibes as EA calling Lootboxes Surprise mechanics, like call it what you want, at the end of the day it's the same shit.
So true. Just because you're engaging with something doesn't mean it's not fun. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it's not engaging. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Before I got banned on Reddit, this was how every discussion I had with a woke warrior went, it's pretty much their modus operandi: 1. Make stupid take 2. People point out the flaws in your stupid take. 3. Disregard all arguments made pointing out how stupid your take is and simply call anyone criticizing you some kind if "-ist" or "-phobe", even when those criticizing you said nothing to do with those things. 4 (optional but frequent). Block anyone who criticizes you or points out that you are wrong so you can continue living in your little fantasy land echo chamber where you can act like you're right about everything.
I once got banned on r/gamingcirclejerk for saying inclusion and diversity can still work as long as it doesn't feel forced, like that Velma show for example. Everyone called me a racist and bigot for saying I like it when they portray LGBTQ+ and minorities as actual normal people in media
The Crash Bandicoot N sane trilogy sold over 10 million copies The Last of Us Part 2 sold over 10 million copies HD remaster of three games in a pretty obscure title that is a PlayStation exclusive sold the same amount as a sequel to one of the greatest games of all time
The fefs doing this kind of thing are commies. Like hitler & stalin, I.e. the worst of the worst. This is small potatoes to their kind, which I wouldn't even consider human.
Wish we can use the "assumption" card like these people did before. "Did you assume that I am racist/ homophobic because I criticized a topic that's not even related to those accusations?"
As soon as I heard Joel gets killed and Abby is forgiven by the end of the game with some guilt-tripping shenanigans I knew TLOU didn't have a sequel (as in, I refuse to accept it as a sequel, I refuse to aknowledge their existence, if it wasn't clear enough)
The problem isn't the fact that Joel died or that Abby gets forgiven, it's the execution, Abby doesn't regret killing Joel and it all serves to is make the whole game a pointless and taxing feast of misery, confusion and anger to anyone who isn't brain dead or a pompous fart sniffing prick.
@@guerreiroazul3230 Exactly. I get so confused whenever anyone says "YoU OnLY HaTE It BeCuz Gay oR JoEl DyInG". i know some people probably have that opinion, but a lot of people also just dont like the execution as well.
@@guerreiroazul3230 I never touched the game, but I did watch some playtroughs from youtubers I like. In the first hour of the game Joel literally saves Abby's life as she's about to get mauled by the zombies after she gets pinned to the ground, after which he gives her a horseback ride to her safehouse. And then she repays that by torturing and then killing him. And then after that we're supposed to root for her like she's some great virtuous character? Of course not. If the game focused more on Abby tracking down Joel and uncovering more and more of the unsavory actions he did over the years then sure, gamers wouldn't have minded her killing him as much.
They just can't. They're just loathsome sacks of hatred and misery that it's just wiser to disregard everything they say, if not give them something to actually cry about or get them to isolate themselves from the rest of the cult.
non-solitary unproductive and unfun stuff. Literally. Seriously just look at them. Their idea of fun is things like "blocking the road under the hot sun for hours" and other varieties of boredom inducing activities that also includes *cough* "communication". You'd think they'd stick to other boring stuff like fishing but nope. Not enough human interaction in that.
At 6:15 Hei mentions people using video games to help escape hardships and tragedies in their life. He is 100% right about that. My dad was murdered a few weeks ago and it’s been the hardest thing in my life I have ever dealt with. At the end of the day when my family is sleeping and I’m alone with my thoughts, things start to get to me. Granted, during the day life, kids, work, etc keeps me busy but that downtime when I’m alone with my thoughts I can easily get caught up with the “what if” questions. Playing games has been a great way for me to get away from those thoughts when I’m alone. If the games I play were not fun and engaging I wouldn’t have a reason to play them and get that little bit of escape I need.
It's amazing how no one is able to defend TLOU2 with any other tactic other than calling people who disagree with them names. Meanwhile the list of reasons not to like the game goes on for a long time, and none of them have anything to do with race.
In the first place, even if the game setting is 'tragic' and the story is 'depressing', it could still be a fun game. These people don't understand that.
That's what the whole BioShock trilogy is about and look how loved it is, those games got awards but are depressing and fun . The director for Pirates of the Caribbean Curse of the Black Pearl wanted to make a BioShock movie but the budget was set too high due to rendering the ocean, the rigging is tedious and requires a lot of hours for a movie set entirely under water with complicated structures and lighting without looking cartoonish like Finding Nemo.
never say you’re only getting backlash because of your bio 8 times out of 10, the people you talk to online do not care about you enough to check your bio
You don't need to only make games that are 'happy' all emotions are valid when making art. however, if your art is designed intentionally to be frustrating, and it doesn't sell well, that is on you. But games that are designed to make you sad or angry or even like you are a bad person, are all good and valid choices.
Dark souls is designed to be frustrating yet it's fun. You can literally make any game fun, as long as you rack your brains enough to find fun ways to implement it. This are just lazy politically charged developers, who make shitty excuses for their piss poor game deliveries.
@@advaitthavare The best parts of Dark Souls have nothing to do with its gameplay and controls. those two things are literally the worst about it, and you wouldn't suffer them in most games.
@@advaitthavare "You can literally make any game fun" Not without compromising the other emotions you want to add. Just because you CAN doesnt mean you always should.
having a couple friends who are autistic, this just reads as an autistic person digging their heels in and dying on the dumbest possible hill. Had a very similar thing from a friend over a conversation we were having about psychology. She decided i was wrong about something, refused to talk about that thing, and when i didnt accept i was wrong decided i was a morally bad person. later, she calmed down and apologised. twitter isnt a good place for these people. They struggle with interpersonal skills. They struggle with argument. Turning their struggles into a highlight reel just victimizes them. Its not Hero Hei's fault or anyone elses though, its twitters.Twitter is a cancer.
I've heard it all on this one. Games shouldn't be fun because it's like a healthy meal, like a good teaching, like a book you've got yo read for school. These people think that you should pay money, sit calmly in your bedroom or living room after a long day if not weeks at school or work and use your leisure time to hear some lecture, to read stuff that talks down to you, for your own good. Get these people out of my videogames, I hate them so much.
@@ZeldaGuy12345 the song doesn't tell you what you should feel, they describe the sadness of something and with the help of the music you empathize. Fallout as a game is great since all sides are exaggerations but also present interesting points. These people don't want that diversity of vision and thought, all media shall be gained by their ideological sh🅰️rt
If I wanted to pay too much for a condescending lecture, Collage classes are right fething there! Honestly, if I didn't know they were Evil, I'd think they don't know what words mean.
It even worst than that, their product teaching nothing useful, they want to force their agenda down your throat and brainwash people. Now i understand why some fandom gatekeeping their hobby so much (there are some toxic individual but not all), and i dont think things will get better, bc the veteran old dev who love video games mostly retired or just working for money now, what a bad era for western aaa games. Luckily, japanese still making video games.
"Movies don't have to be fun!!!!1111one!!!" - yeah that's what movie critics say. and they've been pushing that sorta thing on us for decades, and now there are some who try to say video games need to be as "artistic" as movies. but the fact is. a movie that's just some weird artistic expression is about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. a decently sized video game should - in most cases get what? 12 hours of gameplay? minimum. you're telling me, you'd spend multiple days ((taking into account that most people can only spend 2 to 3 hours at a time playing a game)), playing a game for... what reason other than it being fun for you - now mind you, it doesn't have to be fun for everyone. just fun for you. if YOU aren't having fun, then again. why friggin' bother? Even with artistic movies, the reason WHY people watch them is their fun - some people watch them to get a one up on their fellow snooty friends. some watch it to 'get with' the girl or guy who seems to be into that sorta thing. others do it in order to critique and fit in. that is legit - all fun for them. they GET fun out of it in the end, rather than having fun DURING the movie... there's still fun there. Why on Earth would you spend somewhere between 6 to 20 hours on a game that you have ZERO fun playing... good grief, that's just another job at that point. And one thing I gotta point out about movies in recent years, the critique scores have definitely shown you what to expect. if critics like it, your average person might not enjoy that movie. if the critics all say it's "dumb" or some such, it'll usually have an 80% + user rating.
War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy would take the average reader about 38 hours to finish. People have been spending their time on non fun media for centuries. There is plenty you can get out of things that are not fun. A view into other lives and cultures, exercises in empathy, factual or moral education. Those things are worth the personal investment without needing to be fun. "WHY people watch them is their fun" Oh come on. Now you are just changing the definition of "fun" so that you can still be right.
I can get a compelling story from a book, or a cinematic masterpiece from a movie. When it comes to video games, gameplay is king. The one thing that _makes_ a video game, and, in my opinion, elevates video games as works of art above books or movies, is that they directly involve the audience as an active participant and not just a passive observer. What we mean when we say that video games should be "fun" is simply that they need to have good gameplay.
They can call me a child all they want. Sure as hell beats being a miserable adult wasting away on Twitter preaching about how everyone should do and think the same way they do.
I like how they try to claim they're detractors are children like mate what's so "adult" about wasting your precious time and money on playing video games you dont even enjoy? SMH.
You hit the nail on the head Hero with the fact the majority of gamers use it as a form of escapism too help deal with things in real life and it's been proven that it can help prevent people doing something stupid because of real life stresses and help improve mental health and cognitive abilities.
Honestly, I kind of understand the point about 'engaging' and not necessarily being fun. Games shouldn't always be fun. Sometimes, it's meant to cause you negative emotions. Sadness, anger, disgust, fear, etc. It depends on the story being told, and not all stories are or even should be 'fun'. But twitter is full of brainrot and seething rage and can't have nuanced opinions.
Alien Isolation and outcast are still fun, even though they are meant to throw you down a drain. Dark souls- hope I don't have to explain beyond that. Games have to be fun. The problem is idiots can't differentiate between fun and happy. A game can be downright depressing, yet be absolute blast to play. Games always have to be fun, the responsibility of making it fun is on the hands of developers. Lazy devs make shitty reasons like this, smart developers deliver solid games.
Wtf do you mean shouldn't always be fun... What emotion you're feeling isn't indicative if you're having fun or not. People watch horror movies because they're fun but the content is a serial killer or ghost going around brutally murdering people meaning the viewier is TERRIFIED yet sitll having FUN. Like, what? Games should ALWAYS be fun. That's the point
@@jase276 Is Lolita a fun book? If you say yes I will call Chris Hansen. No but it is a world wide classic because it is engaging in it's horribleness. Games can be good but not fun.
It almost sounds like they're mistaking "fun" for "light hearted" or "upbeat". They do realize that people get fun out of different things which is why games have so many genres like horror, adventure, mystery, and fighting right?
I was completely in agreement with you and then I got reflective for a moment when you mentioned "Sometimes a game might not be fun for **AN INDIVIDUAL** who is playing it" (paraphrasing). That is when it hit me that I play StarCraft (Broodwar/Remastered) and StarCraft II and I tells ya bub there are a ***LOT*** of folks who beat their heads against the PvP ladder and RAGE and CRY and SWEAT and SHAKE and boy HOWDY..... :) The Chess refence is very apt. Sometimes we do things that are not "fun" per se but we still find entertaining.... or... um... we use to pass time... a hobby that is not readily described as "classically" fun?.... I guess. But yes... this is an anomaly and NOT the rule.... Of course you (or I) ***MAY*** just be an idiot child um.... aryan? um.... authoritarian racist... um... facist... etc etc etc... buzz-word-BINGO I WIN!!!! Anyhoo... THANKS for the vidja! Some Liberal-Progressive Statists surely do suck the air out of a room huh? They and god-botherers really leave me cold.
I swear, the brainrot is real. I think the OP is miserable to the point everyone else needs to be miserable as well. There's no common sense or critical thinking involved, only brash feelings. And yet, gamers are the children? 🙄
Its the irony with these kinds of people. Its usually projection; They love calling other people that dont agree with them "children", yet are the ones having tantrums like a 3 year old..
I can think of two examples of video games that don't need to be fun. Desert Bus, due to regularly being played and streamed for charitable causes specifically because it's unfun and people enjoy watching others have to endure it, it seems. Also, some physical activity games like the boxing one Hero mentioned. It doesn't necessarily need to be fun if the goal is promoting physical activity. Just less dull than other similar forms of physical activity without the game aspect.
They can always make a serious and depressing game story AND be fun to play, there's the diference. Just like shadow of the colossus! Man, what a masterpiece
From reviews i've seen people say Pathologic relies on being unfun and stressful for storytelling. It gets the player in the right emotional state for decisikns and the endings. It's well loved but also recommended to just learn about the plot and not play it yourself unless you can find some form of enjoyment from unfun games. Basically games dont have to be fun but you dont have to play unfun games. Play whatever you want and let others do the same.
@@leonfire99 Fun is very subjective, I love Pathologic and fear and hunger as much as I love games like RainWorld and Spiderman. Just because a game is stressful doesn't make it unfun.
And you can have a stressful and unfun game with good enough plot and story to be considered great. Pathologic is regarded that way. In fact people say the stressful and unfun gameplay adds to the story since it instils the right emotions. I would also still say don't ever discredit someone who wants all games to be fun though. Enjoy what you want.
@@miwestraveler3986 i agree in the total sum of the experience. But from the looks of things the majority of pathologic is unfun and the reward that gives a fun experience is only after the ending (or multiple endings) i'd say it's still unfun overall even if the ending and some plot was fun.
@@leonfire99 I guess people just feel like getting a rewarding (read interesting) ending that they have to work for is satisfying. It just depends on how far you're willing to go to reach that ending that makes it worth it or not. That process could also fall under the umbrella of "fun" for some people. That's my two cents anyway.
I wish i had more time play games. I think that a game might not be enjoyable if it is tied up with their work. Game testers or coders. They've probably seen so much of the early game finding bugs and cheese strats that its a chore. Those can be some long hours.
I said it yesterday, when I seen someone else covering it… fun is different for everyone… some like simple Mario platforming, others like lvl 1, no hit, glitchless, speedrunning Elden Ring…fun really is up to the players
Eh pathologic definitely wasnt made to be fun but is still well regarded because the experience put players in the right emotional state for the story. I do still think it's okay to only want to play fun games though. I never played pathologic but it was a ton of fun to learn about the story from the ones who endured the game.
@@ZeldaGuy12345 You're conflating "Fun" with "Happy" or "Joyful" and yes video games by design are required to be fun. Ever play Halo Reach? "A game so old it was actually designed to be FUN!" The story of the game has literally EVERY main character die, including your own, it's dark, it's tragic, but it's FUN.
@@Pokeash30 actually i'm saying what a lot of reviews say "10/10 don't play it" just watch reviews and story summaries for the fun. But if you can get value from the story and endings to offset the rest then yeah it's fun. But not for most
@@1992holycrap We're good at winning? How many non-woke gamers do we have in positions of government? News media? The entertainment industry? Education? Those are basically all dominated by 'wokesters' and you think we're _winning_ ? Absolutely delusional.
i imagine the type of people that say games don't need to be fun are the type of people that say anyone with an audience has an obligation and responsibility to spread whatever the virtue signaling flavor of the month is. they don't need fun because they see everything as some sort of social justice agenda that needs to be pushed using entertainment as the vehicle of delivery
That's what _they_ ( The current game makers ) want. A Slot Machine with a face of a game Most mobile games are that nowadays, urging the player to top-up and more to "enhance" the gameplay when it's not
@@ZeldaGuy12345 Everything to you Freaks need to be political ain't it? Proves to me and the folks here that anywhere you Freaks want to dip their hands into, must be "Westurd Standard" kind of political
That's why movies that flop are the movie-goers fault, according to directors, writers, and actors. They believe they know what's best for everyone else, and entertainment isn't it.
I get where they're coming at with "games don't need to be fun" but the most recent game I can remember that was engaging without being fun was spec ops: the line and the developers for that game said they'd rather eat glass than make a sequel.
I can think of a few games some would find fun but others who wouldn't. I love old DOS games like the Original MechWarrior, battletech crescent hawks games, and the original Sid mires Pirates. I have met a lot of younger people who think you need the best of the best PCs because you need the super high ultra depth graphics to have a fun experience. They see old DOS games as boring and would say that DOS games was not fun.
Fun doesn't mean a game has to be lighthearted and whimsical all the time. It just means the game doesn't have to be depressing for 20 hours straight. I've played games with very dark or heavy story elements, but it's offset by the fun stuff. For example, Cyberpunk 2077 has some really dark story moments, but there are times that are meant to be silly or more lighthearted in order to provide relief. I can go from discovering something extremely disturbing somewhere in the city to talking to and befriending a sentient vending machine.
Hmm... That's deep... So... what category does Witch House fall into? It's 100% depressing. I guess dying over and over is/would be the happiest/fun thing in that game?
OP: "Hurr Durrr, I made a bad take, must be my gender , you're all children!" Crowd: "We know you're wrong, keep crying." Me: "Calling out stupid shit said is what we do." Bro, even Dark Souls is fun. If you don't like it, don't play those games? There are others. The OP is hard Projecting to get attention.
Apparently that's the new thing, when you have a horrible take that most anyone would say is wrong you just call the other person a child and call it a day. It happened to me a few days ago.
@@worldslargestnerd If all they have are personal attacks, you've already won. Just because they refuse to admit it doesn't mean it's not true; Same with the truth. Neither are dependent on belief.
I don't know where to start on this one so many things to address like what people mean when they say fun and what people have fun doing but I have to get back to work
I think the people that believe "video games (or movies) don't need to be fun" are only looking through the lense of "everything is happy and go lucky". A game with engaging gameplay or story (even something simple like animal crossing or Minecraft) can all be fun if done well. It's also why some people continue to play games that they rage at or claim they hate.
I call it the “I’m an artist” mentality/personality (not to be confused with actual artists, but rather a very specific and often highly annoying type of person who more often than not are actually not very good at artistry, ironically enough). Those “types” of people seem to never be happy with anything that isn’t actively deconstructed into pointless oblivion and/or beats you over the head with whatever their message is (or strangely, the polar opposite, being intentionally extremely cryptic but insisting on the deepness of what they’re making) with an very prominent “look at me, I’m an so great and special and important” way of presenting themselves that seems to pull in some people but repel the vast majority of them. I’m sorry if this was badly worded, it’s past 4:00 am and I’m suffering from day three of insomnia again, so I hope what I’m saying makes sense.
All games can not be fun BUT all game developers must aspire to make FUN games, otherwise there's no point. Even if a game is depressing, sad, you can feel various emotions and have fun through experiencing it.
Huh... I remember how we had them crappy pc games for learning. Hell they were fun. Although now that I think about it... Ever since I was small I never read the manual... What an odd thought to have...
Well, is not like TLOU2 was made to be fun, it was made to cover the progressive agenda, even for the devs it was just work, so instead of focusing on the fun they focused on being "engaging".
The Crash Bandicoot N sane trilogy sold over 10 million copies The Last of Us Part 2 sold 10 million copies HD remaster of an obscure title literally sold the same amount as the sequel to what is Apparently one of the greatest games of all time And Crash Bandicoot is a PlayStation exclusive
I used to read a great deal of dark and edgy fiction, as well as a lot of very thought-provoking fiction, sometimes both. Both of those, regardless of their themes, still have and had every capacity to be entertaining.
i think the word to describe the example of horror games and such is "engaging" ironically enough and by extension the reasoning behind the devs saying "we dont use the word fun" i guess it needed context or not to be so tsun tsun against the word "fun"
Some games are for the challenge, but even the challenge is fun, people that play chess still have fun, even if it is stressful sometimes, and movies that are sad or "not fun" but carry an "enriched experience" if you think it was worth watching it then you had fun, the concept of fun is quite broad and you can have fun watching something sad or reading something that is not amusing as long as it sparks your interest then you are having fun
I started playing games way before the term "gamer" was around, and to this day, I still play games for "fun", which can be found in a lot of ways, as mentioned in the vid with the chess example, heck even bad games can be fun in their own way. I don't understand how this creature who posted the complaint work, must be a buggy AI.
Terminally online leftist weirdos think that the sole purpose of games is to push their leftist ideology. They only care about The Message. Fun gets in the way of The Message, which means fun must be removed.
Unfortunately there are plenty of game developers/publishers these days that would rather you play a live service game as if it were a job, repeating the same tasks over and over again til the end of time in the hopes of maybe getting something decent as a reward (that you usually need to pay for the chance to get aka battle passes). As long as there is engagement they don't care about fun at all.
There are certain games i play that arent fun but have stellar stories that carry it for me. In other cases I've played games I had a blast playing but depressed the shit outta me by the end. There's always a balance 😂
A quick thought about the Druckmann quote, so might be wrong... _fun_ would include _engagement;_ however, _fun_ would be strictly _voluntary engagement,_ where as the term _engagement_ alone would include _forceful engagement_ such as punishment, "struggle session," and other coercive and lecturous methods which won't leave the person satisfactory or that they spent their time well in learning or experiencing something regardless of what emotions involved or the difficulty thereof. (And not only emotional difficulty, that probably applies to effort difficulty like the "dark souls" thing over the inherent mechanics.) And that kind of boarding terminological assertion tends to correspond with a mal-intent to engage in such things under guise.
I mean... Dark souls is a prime exemple of that. Dark, bleak setting with little on the way of hope and that reflects in the gameplay that is out to kick your ass. But letting you fight against the odds and eventually overcome them is fun
@@thorveim1174 dark souls, neir, disco Elysium, heck even breath of the wild had some depressing moments but the moments actually meant something were given proper weight and effort and created fun.
I spent way to much time last night trying to think of what they could possibly actually mean by that. My only conclusion I could even kind of think is their definition of fun is... incredibly narrow or they don't actually know what FUN means. They had a few replies to people disagreeing with them me including how the words entertaining and fun don't mean the same thing. Which... they literally do.
i too would say games do not need to be fun the same as not every movie needs to fun some movies are art pieces designed to make you think some movies are so scary that some people will faint and games can do that. Some games are tough as nails where a single mistake means death where the whole game disempowers you and makes you feel weak like you can do nothing and the satisfaction comes from being able to progress at all. In my opinion the only deciding factor if game is good or not is how well the idea of the devs is executed. This is because what one person might find exiting the other might find boring i hate roughelikes others love them and so on so agame can never be graded on how fun it is just how well executed it is
as usual, Filthy Tourists that uses anime profile pictures are getting the Real Otakus bad rep. But hey, at least we know now that Tourists does _not_ know the meaning of fun
Games are different from other forms of entertainment, I feel. Due to the interactivity a game has, it needs to be fun to even work. Other forms of media like Literature, Art and Movies have some leeway with that.
I get their argument, they just weren’t good at arguing. A “game” can invoke whatever emotion the creator wants. If they want to make a sad game, that’s fine. One can have fun when a game can make them feel even negative emotions.
Yes, negative emotions can definitely be fun. Fun doesn't mean happy or carefree. People have a lot of fun going on rollercoaster rides, even though the whole point of rollercoaster rides is to make you afraid.
Not much of a gamer myself but gamers truly are some of the most oppressed people in society😢. Also imagine being so weird(?) that you manage to be anti fun? How you wind up with that? Not even the stereotypical old guy on his porch is anti fun, he just doesn’t like it on his lawn! Anyway hope yall have a good day, remember to hydrate and go for a walk if you can (Late heart pls Hei?)
My guess is that what I'm calling "the cult" that these Twitter freaks seem to belong to turn the cultist into a mindless drone full of hated and misery that is too hard-hearted to enjoy life. All that matters is the ascension and the word of their false gods, the jerkoffs that "head" this cult.
I love games with a challenging difficulty, but just enough to make it tough and still be enjoyable. That's why I have never got myself to play the souls games or games where the difficulty goes beyond (eg. Devil May cry who goes to Dante Must Die and further difficulties), cause it just takes away the fun for me. I end up way more stressed than having fun and makes me not want to play the game anymore and the only thing which compromises me is my mentality of finishing the game but still questioning why I torture myself xD For hardcore gamers who love a real challenge or souls gamers, respect for those. And any casual gamer or newcomers in games who love playing in the easiest mode, as long as you enjoy the game and have fun, that's ok too. About online games, well that depends, but I can enjoy them cause I know I may win eventually and it's not all on me 100% of the time (and also helps me to hone my skills on whatever specific game or genre); so, there's still a reason to have fun on those. Whoever plays a game to stress even more considering whatever stress they may have in life, well that's their cup of tea I guess. Maybe they're actually privileged.
Sometimes part of the fun of a game is losing or dying a lot and what is fun for one person may not be fun to another, kinda like horror games I love a good horror game but can't enjoy a horror movie as they often use too much blood and gore for my taste and at least in some video games the amount of gore seems more realistic and not so much in or for movies.
"We say 'engaging'" Odd way to admit being angry at a game counts as being engaged. I guess I was super engaged in Other M before I set the disc on fire.
It is some good insight into modern western AAA game devs and how they think though. Past year one of Destiny 1, I was mad at how awful the game was 90% of the time… but I still played it. And I’m not the only one. I’ve seen plenty of memes about nobody hating Destiny more than Destiny players. My favorite has to be this video where a guy is like, “bro, I hate this game so much” until he puts on the headset. Then he’s like, “ALRIGHT, WHO’S READY TO RAID?” These devs found out that, much like news sites have been doing for a decade now, they can profit off rage. I genuinely thank God for pulling me out of Destiny before 2 even came out. I actually enjoy gaming again because offline games are fun. And hey, when my internet does act up, I don’t even notice because nothing happens
It's really telling when someone makes a take like this and instead of having a civil discussion with people about why they think that they instead just insult them with pretty boring insults at that, not even creative insults, wonder who's actually the kid here LMFAO.
a game doesn’t need to be melting your dopamine receptors all of the time. Even when a game “isn’t fun” it’s still fun otherwise you as a human would lose interest in it after a while. That happened to me with the multiplayer from tomb raider 2013. I got really good at pwning people in it which kinda made it a little repetitive, then the wait times for matches got really long (I suspect because it was dying) and i lost interest. The amount of unfun overcame the fun.
Pin to fight against the oppression of gamers.
Gg💕
Ggs on the pin 🖤
GGWP
🎉
Yes sir!
Bro started losing the argument and pulled the racist and homophobic card, insane world we live in.
That’s the typical commie-scum go-to movement. Bio checks out it’s a bottom feeder.
It's like Schrodinger's feminism. They are both empowered and a victim until they determine which one benefits them more in the current situation.
@@worldslargestnerd LMAO
@@worldslargestnerdit's all shits and giggles in the world until the twitterian (or I guess X-ian now) demographic giggles and shits
@@worldslargestnerd
Bro thats the quote from that damn turtle in every video about women
Immediately calls people who disagree with them kids, racists, potentially nazis and discriminating against them based on gender.
I can just tell this person is a joy to be around.
Yes, it is a joy to be around them. You'll always have something to laugh at whenever they decide to speak up lol
It's the behavior by default with these people. They resort to labeling their detractors assuming that prevents all criticism.
If you think people need to be fun to be around you have the brain of an actual child.
Honestly, feel bad for them. Probably have no friends, grew up in an abusive household, and being like that on the internet is the only validation they get.
It'll 41% itself soon enough, no need to bother
"Fun is literally in the definition of a game"
"You're a racist weeb"
... what kind of leap in logic is that?
I can't be racist I'm part of 2 oppressed groups The Weebs and The Gamers
They just roll everything they don’t like into one. They hate gamers and weebs because both groups actively resist them
The kind only a leftist can make.
@@ricktheweeb5382 The weebs are oppressed for a good reason. (There's a pdfile problem in the anime community. I'm not talking about l0li and sh0ta, I'm talking genuine pdfilia)
@@zeal9442 that is in every community it just they aim that hate towards the weebs for the loli and stuff that we get in animes and hentai so basically the weebs are the scape goats to hide people in other communities who are pedophiles as well so you were close but still a little bit away from why we are hated and oppressed plus we dont really fight anyone besides the people in our own community so that makes us even more of an easy target
There's something I learned called "The 'Stop having fun!' guy." Basically they don't like it when someone is having fun playing a game, even serious/dark games.
It's annoying, it makes them look like toddlers, and I want a game to be fun so I can remember it more.
Games can be serious and fun at the same time. We should all know that
The kind of person to tell everyone to "grow up and become adults" (librarian/authoritarian type of adults for the most part).
@@EnvyDSin Ironically it's just projection on their part since they are unable to grow up themselves
the quit having fun guys kinds of people unfortunately are all over the place, regardless of political affiliation. just look at Razorfist
She seems to have a narrow definition of 'fun' and a broad definition of 'racist'.
"she"?
@@ivancar555 Yes, she is the correct pronoun. What are you confused about?
Brilliant take.
Well-said.
@@RaeneTheFaeriePersonally I'm of the opinion that people like this idiot who thinks games shouldn't be fun lose the privilege of having any pronoun other than "it". Don't want to treat people who disagree with you with human dignity? Well I won't treat you like a human either.
The "games don't need to be fun" thing actually makes perfect sense for people immersed in the "everything is political" mindset. For them, a miserable game is 'good' so long as it preaches the right message, because the message is the sole determiner of value.
It's these same assholes who probably hated the fact that you can actually leave with the gold in the Dead Money DLC of Fallout New Vegas, as doing so would "miss the point" of "letting go". As for myself, I always spit on the "moral" of whatever story I'm reading. Christmas Carol? An economist wrote a full article about how miser Scrooge at the beginning of the story was actually better for the economy than generous Scrooge at the end of the story. Pinocchio? I note that how Pinocchio's personality was at the beginning of the story (that whole deal about his father not being around to tell him what to do) is exactly how Liu Shan was at the end of Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Difference is that Liu Shan never regretted those words.
@@DarkAdonisVyers What a sad, nihilistic way of looking at things. You must have loved The Last of Us2
When I first heard that statement I took it from an educational standpoint. Math and reading games would be great if they were fun, but engaging with their audience is more important. I remember enjoying reader rabbit, but I don't think I would call it fun as an adult. But that was clearly not the actual message of "games don't need to be fun" after seeing the rest of the video lmao.
At some point we have to collectively accept the fact that even though TLOU was a 10/10 masterpiece, Druckman decided to go off the deep end destroyed the franchise with the sequel and nothing he will ever say or do again is to be trusted
@@DragoEpyon Found the commie.
Got lost on your way to reddit , did you?
"Still acting like you're 11." Back when i could ignore bossy girls and NOT constantly worry about being evicted for "problematic" attitudes. After a long day of work, who wouldnt want to feel like they're still 11?
Ain't that the truth. Life was simpler back then.
@@simonhailom2477Life is way too short to ignore fun in your life. Screw these loser redditors. No better way to relax after work with a icey beer and a good game to enjoy.
@@simonhailom2477 Actually, life was just as bad as it is today. Take off the nostalgia goggles, please...
@@zeal9442not when we were kids. No one likes a nihilist.
@@ronwatford7331 Nope. Life was just as Terrible back then as it is now, even when you were a kid.
This is why gatekeeping is moral and correct in ALL hobbies. The bar is ridiculously low to get in either way in being just be nice and actually be a fan of games or w/e the hobby is.
OP going all pseudo-intellectual saying fun is childish just shows how childish they are. Saying you have to abandon fun to be mature is an extremely childish take. 🤣🤣🤣
Yup, that quote about being mature meaning losing the fear of childishness comes to mind.
Studies have shown that humans need games to keep their brains functioning properly.
A game can be depressing and thought-provoking while still being fun to play. NieR: Automata is a great example of this
Most of his games are that way.
Me who likes Nier for YorHa 2B _artworks_ : About that..
Code Vein is another game that could be considered fun for players of the Soulsbourne variety but has a depressing story and moments.
Danganronpa is known for being over the top and wacky, but have depressing moments throughout that has a fanbase who enjoyed it and flocked to Rain Code when it was released that goes even further at times.
i mean it wouldn't be literally fun, it would be engaging
@@CGrascal Pretty much all Soulsbourne games are depressing in story content.
Really, reminds me of the former Square Enix's CEO's New Year's message where he stated 'some play for fun, but we want to focus on play to earn' in their push for normalizing NFT's in games. The concept of treating games not as fun entertainment, but like a stock trade, a way to earn money through NFT's.
Wow, they got axed alright?
The problem with comparing movies that aren't fun to games that aren't fun is that a game needs gameplay to keep it engaging. A movie can be engaging with it's story alone, but with games the story is usually broken up by gameplay. And gameplay can only be engaging if its fun to play. That's why so many games have simple excuse plots. Gameplay sells games. An engaging story is a great bonus.
A game can be happy, sad, depressing, optimistic, anything and everything. But, above all, a game needs to make you WANT TO PLAY.
The thing about movies is that they too generally need to be fun, they just don’t have to be happy. Horror, tragedy, even some kinds of thriller and such aren’t meant to necessarily invoke happiness, but they are meant to be fun for other reasons. If they’re not fun, they don’t sell, and even the bad ones that do sell tend to be ones that become fun because they fall into the “so bad it’s good” category.
"If you think food needs to taste 'good' you have the brain of an actual child." Possum Reviews did a pretty good job at showing the stupidity of the whole argument.
Fun is enjoyable. It causes pleasure - especially in active forms, as thrill, exhilaration, challenge, elation, happiness.
Being interested or being engaged appeals to curiosity - learning, it's about things we want to know, see, learn, examine. Things that draw your attention. Whatever reasons - be it for pleasure, or e.g. for professional interest or satisfying anxiety.
Main thing of fun is providing a pleasure. It is fun = it is pleasurable. But being engaged doesn't equal to being pleasured. There are games that have a very heavy and depressing narrative and atmosphere. Games that are quite stressful. To the point of not being fun. But you are still engaged by the atmosphere, story and the world.
Its the same with books. Some people read books for fun(lighthearted stories with happy endings), and they cant stand tragedies. Other people love to read books that are tragic and very depressing, with nothing that resembling happiness in sight.
Does person who reads depressing and tragic story is having fun? Or is he engaged?
@@alexfaden3091 What people with your opinion aren't grasping is that people aren't using the word "fun" for it's by-the-book raw definition. They're literally just saying that the game is enjoyable. Whether it be enjoyable because of it's gripping yet depressing storyline, or enjoyable because of a lot of action or whatever. It's literally just people getting a dictionary out and people trying to talk like non-autistic individuals. It's fun = it's an enjoyable experience. That's it. It isn't that complicated.
@@alexfaden3091nier automota is a very depressing game with extremely heavy existential themes and it is still fun
At least food is necessary for survival
Even if the food tastes bad, if you gotta eat it, you would still have to eat it
Games, on the other hand are not a necessity
Why would anybody want to waste their money and time on a game they won't enjoy?
@@ForTheOmnissiah Oi, don't bring autism into it, this is just idiots thinking they are smarter because they grabbed a dictionary, and cant realise "Fun" works for sad games, and enjoyable experiences don't need to be sunshine rainbows and candy.
You can have dark, nihilistic storylines about a dystopic society meant to create heavy emotions and philosophy...and it still be _fun_ . Fun to play, fun to think about, fun character interactions. A game can be _serious_ and fun. These "no fun allowed" weirdos need to touch grass.
Case in point: Half-Life 2
The entire world has been taken over by an alien civilisation, they put stuff in the drinking water to make people forget, they take all your possesions when you get forcibly moved, they constantly moniter you.
You get separated from your family unless you join their policeforce, at which point they give you a few cybernetics, decide to go further and become a soldier and they scramble your brains and change your anatomy, go even further and you're more machine than man.
If you dare resist the aliens you get killed if you're lucky, if you get caught they lobotomise you, cut off your limbs, remove your vocal cords, remove all non-essential organs, and force you to work for them as basic drones. A town that was a base for the resistance got shelled and most of the people living there turned into zombies that are still alive and feel everything, and the ones that didn't try to hide away and survive in this now ghost town
The world has been drained of almost all of it's resources, most animals are extinct except for a few bird species and maybe pets, and there is a supression field that stops the development of embryo's, making the humans that are alive the last of the species.
All of that depressing shit, and it's still one of the most popular games ever made and fun to play.
Yeah, look at ff16. it's got some heavy issues that it deals with in the story, and at the same time the battle system is fun imo.
Or space marine. An action junkie film about living in a dying empire where you do everything right only to lose anyway. It's dark, hilarious, and fun. Or mass effect, where a plant puts people in pods and mind controls them. While they fight and resist and you kill them because you are out of grenades. It's horrible and dark and makes you wish you could've been better. It's a nice dark piece. But the gameplay and story are still 'fun'
Last of us is a great example. Dark story and tones but blowing up fungus people and hitting bandits with bricks is super fun.
@@slimdangerous1928 Exactly the first game was fun, the second game wasn't. Same world..
We live in a world where people have forgotten that enjoyment should come first in a piece of media.
That is a pretty modern take though. Through most of history media's purpose was to make you a better person. Any entertainment value would be an unnecessary addition.
@@williamjenkins4913 And throughout most of history we believed that being a serf for a patriarch was a good thing. (Not to mention 'making a better person' usually just entailed 'making you follow the word of God' for a good chunk of that time)
@@l1ghtd3m0n3 Did you just equate self improvement with slavery? Like way to hella make my point if you feel that strongly about not having 24/7 entertainment.
How did that happen?
@@l1ghtd3m0n3not any god a moral no one would make you worship something they knew to be evil
Games don't need to be "fun," they need to be engaging. The overwhelming majority of that engagement is because games are fun.
Engaging "un-fun" games can exist, where the content can be emotionally harrowing, unnerving, thought provoking.
But the people _demanding_ "un-fun" games are actually referring to hipster-trash that allows them to flatter themselves and their shallow aesthetic sensibilities.
outcast, alien isolation, they are meant to give you a horrifying experience, yet the games are fun.
Lazy developers making shitty reasons for their failing games using buzzwords, that's what this is.
@@advaitthavarelike the saint row reboot game god that was bad
Horror is mutually exclusive from fun? The adrenaline from horror is massive fun. That's why we loved to watch horror movies as kids @@advaitthavare
Sure, games don't need to be fun. But don't expect people to buy or play them either.
@@jase276 I think you read my comment wrong or just missed the point. I literally said those games are fun. That was just a simple example, there are many other examples with games having overwhelming amount of negative emotion yet they are fun.
Imagine losing an argument and you pull the "bet your racist" card on a topic that isn't related about it...*and then everyone clapped*.
That’s the automatic sign that you lost the argument, when they can’t think of a coherent argument to defend their (frankly stupid) opinion and immediately resort to hurling insults.
Can’t blame them they live in that kind of environment and are taught that is the appropriate way to respond.
That's pretty much all people like that do.
Make statement. People disagree. Call people who disagree . Then claim you win.
That's their entire playbook.
@@richardtaveras3593 Aka the abusive ad hominem.
It is fun watching them try that to Eastern people however, since in Asia they will get shamed instead and their victim cards turn into evidence instead of helping them.
"We don't use the word Fun, we prefer Engaging..." has the same vibes as EA calling Lootboxes Surprise mechanics, like call it what you want, at the end of the day it's the same shit.
Did they forget that engaging stories would bring amusement and pleasure... in other words fun?
So true. Just because you're engaging with something doesn't mean it's not fun. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it's not engaging. They aren't mutually exclusive.
And it requires the same amount of piss taking everyone did when EA said that stupid bit. "it's not stealing, it's a surprise discount!"
They are using Marxist tactics to tear down what we love. Marxism/Socialism is what will destroy everything you love.
If you don't make a game fun or entertainment entertaining, that is truly ultimate failure.
Trying to take on a group of people trained from childhood to battle in the virtual space is a exercise in suffering. Double so when you are stupid.
Lol, we're Clone Troopers, just for gaming and the internet. XD
Before I got banned on Reddit, this was how every discussion I had with a woke warrior went, it's pretty much their modus operandi:
1. Make stupid take
2. People point out the flaws in your stupid take.
3. Disregard all arguments made pointing out how stupid your take is and simply call anyone criticizing you some kind if "-ist" or "-phobe", even when those criticizing you said nothing to do with those things.
4 (optional but frequent). Block anyone who criticizes you or points out that you are wrong so you can continue living in your little fantasy land echo chamber where you can act like you're right about everything.
Facts 😂
I once got banned on r/gamingcirclejerk for saying inclusion and diversity can still work as long as it doesn't feel forced, like that Velma show for example. Everyone called me a racist and bigot for saying I like it when they portray LGBTQ+ and minorities as actual normal people in media
Getting banned from reddit is a trophy
Their mindset is just consist of thinking that they are always right because their ego is higher than the sun
That's not just reddit. A good chuck of the internet is like that now.
Imagine villifying people for wanting to have fun with video games.
“We live in a society.”
@@ShadiC636 " We live in an Unfunny Society " - Joker 2.0
The Crash Bandicoot N sane trilogy sold over 10 million copies
The Last of Us Part 2 sold over 10 million copies
HD remaster of three games in a pretty obscure title that is a PlayStation exclusive sold the same amount as a sequel to one of the greatest games of all time
@@ShadiC636we live in a society of dumbasses.
The fefs doing this kind of thing are commies. Like hitler & stalin, I.e. the worst of the worst.
This is small potatoes to their kind, which I wouldn't even consider human.
Wish we can use the "assumption" card like these people did before. "Did you assume that I am racist/ homophobic because I criticized a topic that's not even related to those accusations?"
"Video games shoudnt be fun"
"Fish shoudnt breathe underwater"
As soon as I heard Joel gets killed and Abby is forgiven by the end of the game with some guilt-tripping shenanigans I knew TLOU didn't have a sequel (as in, I refuse to accept it as a sequel, I refuse to aknowledge their existence, if it wasn't clear enough)
And I doubt TLOU 3 would be produced.. But you do know naughty dog be like..
The problem isn't the fact that Joel died or that Abby gets forgiven, it's the execution, Abby doesn't regret killing Joel and it all serves to is make the whole game a pointless and taxing feast of misery, confusion and anger to anyone who isn't brain dead or a pompous fart sniffing prick.
@@guerreiroazul3230 Exactly. I get so confused whenever anyone says "YoU OnLY HaTE It BeCuz Gay oR JoEl DyInG". i know some people probably have that opinion, but a lot of people also just dont like the execution as well.
It is essentially the plot of Infamous Second Son, but bad
@@guerreiroazul3230 I never touched the game, but I did watch some playtroughs from youtubers I like. In the first hour of the game Joel literally saves Abby's life as she's about to get mauled by the zombies after she gets pinned to the ground, after which he gives her a horseback ride to her safehouse. And then she repays that by torturing and then killing him. And then after that we're supposed to root for her like she's some great virtuous character? Of course not. If the game focused more on Abby tracking down Joel and uncovering more and more of the unsavory actions he did over the years then sure, gamers wouldn't have minded her killing him as much.
I've been wondering, what the hell do the "videogames shouldn't be fun" NPCs even consider fun? Taxes??
They just can't. They're just loathsome sacks of hatred and misery that it's just wiser to disregard everything they say, if not give them something to actually cry about or get them to isolate themselves from the rest of the cult.
_"peaceful protests"_
"The message"
non-solitary unproductive and unfun stuff. Literally. Seriously just look at them. Their idea of fun is things like "blocking the road under the hot sun for hours" and other varieties of boredom inducing activities that also includes *cough* "communication". You'd think they'd stick to other boring stuff like fishing but nope. Not enough human interaction in that.
@@PuchimonExtremeEven fishing is much more fun than whatever they do.
At 6:15 Hei mentions people using video games to help escape hardships and tragedies in their life. He is 100% right about that. My dad was murdered a few weeks ago and it’s been the hardest thing in my life I have ever dealt with.
At the end of the day when my family is sleeping and I’m alone with my thoughts, things start to get to me. Granted, during the day life, kids, work, etc keeps me busy but that downtime when I’m alone with my thoughts I can easily get caught up with the “what if” questions.
Playing games has been a great way for me to get away from those thoughts when I’m alone. If the games I play were not fun and engaging I wouldn’t have a reason to play them and get that little bit of escape I need.
Sorry to hear that , I wish you well and hope the best for you!
It's amazing how no one is able to defend TLOU2 with any other tactic other than calling people who disagree with them names. Meanwhile the list of reasons not to like the game goes on for a long time, and none of them have anything to do with race.
In the first place, even if the game setting is 'tragic' and the story is 'depressing', it could still be a fun game. These people don't understand that.
There's no reason why the game needs to be so boring that 2 hours of gameplay feels like 15 hours.
That's what the whole BioShock trilogy is about and look how loved it is, those games got awards but are depressing and fun . The director for Pirates of the Caribbean Curse of the Black Pearl wanted to make a BioShock movie but the budget was set too high due to rendering the ocean, the rigging is tedious and requires a lot of hours for a movie set entirely under water with complicated structures and lighting without looking cartoonish like Finding Nemo.
As someone who has played through Omori I can back this claim up 100%.
never say you’re only getting backlash because of your bio
8 times out of 10, the people you talk to online do not care about you enough to check your bio
9 times out of 10, they check the bio after reading the unhinged opinion, and then everything makes sense to them.
All unhinged takes have a deluded bio but not all deluded bios have unhinged takes.
You don't need to only make games that are 'happy' all emotions are valid when making art. however, if your art is designed intentionally to be frustrating, and it doesn't sell well, that is on you. But games that are designed to make you sad or angry or even like you are a bad person, are all good and valid choices.
Dark souls is designed to be frustrating yet it's fun. You can literally make any game fun, as long as you rack your brains enough to find fun ways to implement it. This are just lazy politically charged developers, who make shitty excuses for their piss poor game deliveries.
@@advaitthavare The best parts of Dark Souls have nothing to do with its gameplay and controls. those two things are literally the worst about it, and you wouldn't suffer them in most games.
@@blackmage665 gameplay is literally the best part of dark souls. dafuq you talking about. Fromsoft games are always focussed around gameplay.
@@advaitthavare "You can literally make any game fun"
Not without compromising the other emotions you want to add. Just because you CAN doesnt mean you always should.
having a couple friends who are autistic, this just reads as an autistic person digging their heels in and dying on the dumbest possible hill.
Had a very similar thing from a friend over a conversation we were having about psychology. She decided i was wrong about something, refused to talk about that thing, and when i didnt accept i was wrong decided i was a morally bad person. later, she calmed down and apologised.
twitter isnt a good place for these people. They struggle with interpersonal skills. They struggle with argument.
Turning their struggles into a highlight reel just victimizes them.
Its not Hero Hei's fault or anyone elses though, its twitters.Twitter is a cancer.
I've heard it all on this one.
Games shouldn't be fun because it's like a healthy meal, like a good teaching, like a book you've got yo read for school.
These people think that you should pay money, sit calmly in your bedroom or living room after a long day if not weeks at school or work and use your leisure time to hear some lecture, to read stuff that talks down to you, for your own good.
Get these people out of my videogames, I hate them so much.
@@ZeldaGuy12345 the song doesn't tell you what you should feel, they describe the sadness of something and with the help of the music you empathize.
Fallout as a game is great since all sides are exaggerations but also present interesting points.
These people don't want that diversity of vision and thought, all media shall be gained by their ideological sh🅰️rt
If I wanted to pay too much for a condescending lecture, Collage classes are right fething there! Honestly, if I didn't know they were Evil, I'd think they don't know what words mean.
It even worst than that, their product teaching nothing useful, they want to force their agenda down your throat and brainwash people. Now i understand why some fandom gatekeeping their hobby so much (there are some toxic individual but not all), and i dont think things will get better, bc the veteran old dev who love video games mostly retired or just working for money now, what a bad era for western aaa games. Luckily, japanese still making video games.
I thought for a second that "Show less" was part of your comment. As in, show less of these people and the media they support.
dude, not all video games have to be fun. all i can say is, they're still passionate and still enjoyable
"Movies don't have to be fun!!!!1111one!!!" - yeah that's what movie critics say. and they've been pushing that sorta thing on us for decades, and now there are some who try to say video games need to be as "artistic" as movies.
but the fact is. a movie that's just some weird artistic expression is about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. a decently sized video game should - in most cases get what? 12 hours of gameplay?
minimum. you're telling me, you'd spend multiple days ((taking into account that most people can only spend 2 to 3 hours at a time playing a game)), playing a game for... what reason other than it being fun for you - now mind you, it doesn't have to be fun for everyone. just fun for you. if YOU aren't having fun, then again. why friggin' bother?
Even with artistic movies, the reason WHY people watch them is their fun - some people watch them to get a one up on their fellow snooty friends. some watch it to 'get with' the girl or guy who seems to be into that sorta thing. others do it in order to critique and fit in. that is legit - all fun for them. they GET fun out of it in the end, rather than having fun DURING the movie... there's still fun there.
Why on Earth would you spend somewhere between 6 to 20 hours on a game that you have ZERO fun playing... good grief, that's just another job at that point.
And one thing I gotta point out about movies in recent years, the critique scores have definitely shown you what to expect. if critics like it, your average person might not enjoy that movie. if the critics all say it's "dumb" or some such, it'll usually have an 80% + user rating.
War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy would take the average reader about 38 hours to finish. People have been spending their time on non fun media for centuries. There is plenty you can get out of things that are not fun. A view into other lives and cultures, exercises in empathy, factual or moral education. Those things are worth the personal investment without needing to be fun.
"WHY people watch them is their fun"
Oh come on. Now you are just changing the definition of "fun" so that you can still be right.
I can get a compelling story from a book, or a cinematic masterpiece from a movie. When it comes to video games, gameplay is king. The one thing that _makes_ a video game, and, in my opinion, elevates video games as works of art above books or movies, is that they directly involve the audience as an active participant and not just a passive observer. What we mean when we say that video games should be "fun" is simply that they need to have good gameplay.
As always differing definitions is the source of the argument.
How ironic when creatures who can't tolerate someone having fun without them call people "children".
That also means, were minors jk
At some point being insecure became their entire personality.
They can call me a child all they want. Sure as hell beats being a miserable adult wasting away on Twitter preaching about how everyone should do and think the same way they do.
I like how they try to claim they're detractors are children like mate what's so "adult" about wasting your precious time and money on playing video games you dont even enjoy? SMH.
Let's remember that when someone seems to be enjoying a very serious situation someone might ask, "Is this just a game to you?"
You hit the nail on the head Hero with the fact the majority of gamers use it as a form of escapism too help deal with things in real life and it's been proven that it can help prevent people doing something stupid because of real life stresses and help improve mental health and cognitive abilities.
Mhm. And people wanna ruin that for us.
Gamers are independent! We can play whatever we want!
@@Hi-Im-salad what you gonna do, punch me through a screen? How scary
Yes!
@@Hi-Im-salad T-Gays mad
@@pabcu2507How is this person still in the first reply is beyond me at this point.
@@Hi-Im-saladyes we can, just try to stop us 😂😂😂
If a game is not supposed to be "fun" then why make it?!
That's why I only play Arcade Games from time to time, they're fun in my opinion.
and yes, arcades still exist in Southeast Asia
@@Hi-Im-salad You mean to tell me that games can't be fun because some people can't read?
@@Hi-Im-salad why bother with a story if you dont have fun🙃
Heh.
@@Hi-Im-saladtell me a single good story who isn't fun to read?
(Just so you know I'm using the definition of "fun" given by the oxford dictionary)
Honestly, I kind of understand the point about 'engaging' and not necessarily being fun. Games shouldn't always be fun. Sometimes, it's meant to cause you negative emotions. Sadness, anger, disgust, fear, etc. It depends on the story being told, and not all stories are or even should be 'fun'. But twitter is full of brainrot and seething rage and can't have nuanced opinions.
Alien Isolation and outcast are still fun, even though they are meant to throw you down a drain.
Dark souls- hope I don't have to explain beyond that.
Games have to be fun. The problem is idiots can't differentiate between fun and happy.
A game can be downright depressing, yet be absolute blast to play.
Games always have to be fun, the responsibility of making it fun is on the hands of developers. Lazy devs make shitty reasons like this, smart developers deliver solid games.
They just want to be special. ItS NoT fUn ItS eNgAgInG
@@therookie5714 But "engaging" and "fun" are two different words with different meanings. Is it that bad to want to speak precisely?
Wtf do you mean shouldn't always be fun... What emotion you're feeling isn't indicative if you're having fun or not. People watch horror movies because they're fun but the content is a serial killer or ghost going around brutally murdering people meaning the viewier is TERRIFIED yet sitll having FUN. Like, what? Games should ALWAYS be fun. That's the point
@@jase276 Is Lolita a fun book? If you say yes I will call Chris Hansen. No but it is a world wide classic because it is engaging in it's horribleness. Games can be good but not fun.
It almost sounds like they're mistaking "fun" for "light hearted" or "upbeat". They do realize that people get fun out of different things which is why games have so many genres like horror, adventure, mystery, and fighting right?
man the word "racist" pretty much lost all meaning because of people using it every time they are proven wrong
Always has been.
It has no meaning ever since Trotsky got his hands on it.
for real
If a game isn't fun, can it even be considered a game?
Only by the most technical definition of the word.
Let's ask EA.
Hey EA, was Anthem fun?
Oh it shut down in like a year... So I guess that's a no.
_Brings 'Monopoly: Monopoly board game edition' to chat_
Yes. I have to say yes. Cause if I say no, I'd have to explain the existence of shit like Farmville. I can't do that so I'm gonna say yes.
@@PuchimonExtreme Cityville was a cool game
I was completely in agreement with you and then I got reflective for a moment when you mentioned "Sometimes a game might not be fun for **AN INDIVIDUAL** who is playing it" (paraphrasing).
That is when it hit me that I play StarCraft (Broodwar/Remastered) and StarCraft II and I tells ya bub there are a ***LOT*** of folks who beat their heads against the PvP ladder and RAGE and CRY and SWEAT and SHAKE and boy HOWDY..... :) The Chess refence is very apt.
Sometimes we do things that are not "fun" per se but we still find entertaining.... or... um... we use to pass time... a hobby that is not readily described as "classically" fun?.... I guess.
But yes... this is an anomaly and NOT the rule....
Of course you (or I) ***MAY*** just be an idiot child um.... aryan? um.... authoritarian racist... um... facist... etc etc etc... buzz-word-BINGO I WIN!!!!
Anyhoo... THANKS for the vidja!
Some Liberal-Progressive Statists surely do suck the air out of a room huh? They and god-botherers really leave me cold.
YOOOOOOO Permaban in herohei slop? This is something I didn't expect today
I swear, the brainrot is real. I think the OP is miserable to the point everyone else needs to be miserable as well. There's no common sense or critical thinking involved, only brash feelings. And yet, gamers are the children? 🙄
Well, misery does love company and that guy is one miserable fool.
I think they just have bad taste and is unable to win the argument of "TLOU2 being shit." So they changed lanes and say "Unfun games are good games."
Its the irony with these kinds of people. Its usually projection; They love calling other people that dont agree with them "children", yet are the ones having tantrums like a 3 year old..
Gamers are truly the most oppressed minority in our society.
bro twas a joke
The aforementioned list of groups are not oppressed.
Gamers? Possibly...definitely.
@Hi-Im-salad wow gamist much
Yeah
@@Hi-Im-salad Troll
Just tried looking up the weird person to see if they were still trying to argue & the account is suspended
I can think of two examples of video games that don't need to be fun. Desert Bus, due to regularly being played and streamed for charitable causes specifically because it's unfun and people enjoy watching others have to endure it, it seems. Also, some physical activity games like the boxing one Hero mentioned. It doesn't necessarily need to be fun if the goal is promoting physical activity. Just less dull than other similar forms of physical activity without the game aspect.
Mavis Beacon was never fun but I type pretty fast now.
They can always make a serious and depressing game story AND be fun to play, there's the diference.
Just like shadow of the colossus! Man, what a masterpiece
Or Library of Ruina. It's an RPG too, but it's turn-based.
From reviews i've seen people say Pathologic relies on being unfun and stressful for storytelling. It gets the player in the right emotional state for decisikns and the endings. It's well loved but also recommended to just learn about the plot and not play it yourself unless you can find some form of enjoyment from unfun games.
Basically games dont have to be fun but you dont have to play unfun games. Play whatever you want and let others do the same.
@@leonfire99 Fun is very subjective, I love Pathologic and fear and hunger as much as I love games like RainWorld and Spiderman. Just because a game is stressful doesn't make it unfun.
You can have a dark and engaging storyline, WHILE having satisfying and fun gameplay. They are not mutually exclusive.
The Batman Arkham series is a good example of this
And you can have a stressful and unfun game with good enough plot and story to be considered great. Pathologic is regarded that way. In fact people say the stressful and unfun gameplay adds to the story since it instils the right emotions.
I would also still say don't ever discredit someone who wants all games to be fun though. Enjoy what you want.
@@leonfire99 Counterpoint :
enjoying a good story in itself is fun.
@@miwestraveler3986 i agree in the total sum of the experience. But from the looks of things the majority of pathologic is unfun and the reward that gives a fun experience is only after the ending (or multiple endings) i'd say it's still unfun overall even if the ending and some plot was fun.
@@leonfire99 I guess people just feel like getting a rewarding (read interesting) ending that they have to work for is satisfying. It just depends on how far you're willing to go to reach that ending that makes it worth it or not. That process could also fall under the umbrella of "fun" for some people.
That's my two cents anyway.
I wish i had more time play games.
I think that a game might not be enjoyable if it is tied up with their work. Game testers or coders. They've probably seen so much of the early game finding bugs and cheese strats that its a chore. Those can be some long hours.
I said it yesterday, when I seen someone else covering it… fun is different for everyone… some like simple Mario platforming, others like lvl 1, no hit, glitchless, speedrunning Elden Ring…fun really is up to the players
Video games are supposed to be fun, and nothing will change that. Languages should never be imperialized either.
Eh pathologic definitely wasnt made to be fun but is still well regarded because the experience put players in the right emotional state for the story.
I do still think it's okay to only want to play fun games though. I never played pathologic but it was a ton of fun to learn about the story from the ones who endured the game.
@@ZeldaGuy12345 If something is enjoyable, then its fun, also weird seeing you hating nintendo games, Zeldaguy
@@ZeldaGuy12345 You're conflating "Fun" with "Happy" or "Joyful" and yes video games by design are required to be fun. Ever play Halo Reach? "A game so old it was actually designed to be FUN!" The story of the game has literally EVERY main character die, including your own, it's dark, it's tragic, but it's FUN.
@@leonfire99 So what you saying is that pathologic games are still fun for most people to play.
@@Pokeash30 actually i'm saying what a lot of reviews say "10/10 don't play it" just watch reviews and story summaries for the fun. But if you can get value from the story and endings to offset the rest then yeah it's fun. But not for most
We gamers are an unstoppable unit, we live and thrive
That's because, unlike the wokesters, we're good at winning.
@@1992holycrapyup, there is a skill requirement in this media that those simply can't keep up with.
@@1992holycrap We're good at winning? How many non-woke gamers do we have in positions of government? News media? The entertainment industry? Education? Those are basically all dominated by 'wokesters' and you think we're _winning_ ?
Absolutely delusional.
Unlike them, we enjoy watching other people having fun and being happy.
@@rps215 yeah fr
i imagine the type of people that say games don't need to be fun are the type of people that say anyone with an audience has an obligation and responsibility to spread whatever the virtue signaling flavor of the month is. they don't need fun because they see everything as some sort of social justice agenda that needs to be pushed using entertainment as the vehicle of delivery
Using petty insults is the first big sign that you’ve already lost the argument.
A slot machine is "engaging" but not "fun". That's what they want: for us to consume product, whether or not we enjoy it is inconsequential.
Even a slot machine can be fun, usually on the unlikely case where you win big in it.
That's what _they_ ( The current game makers ) want. A Slot Machine with a face of a game
Most mobile games are that nowadays, urging the player to top-up and more to "enhance" the gameplay when it's not
@@ZeldaGuy12345 Everything to you Freaks need to be political ain't it?
Proves to me and the folks here that anywhere you Freaks want to dip their hands into, must be "Westurd Standard" kind of political
@@ZeldaGuy12345 "Political is Enjoyable"
Brainlet Mindset.
That's why movies that flop are the movie-goers fault, according to directors, writers, and actors. They believe they know what's best for everyone else, and entertainment isn't it.
Ah, I love it when non gamers can tell gamers what's fun and what's not.
I get where they're coming at with "games don't need to be fun" but the most recent game I can remember that was engaging without being fun was spec ops: the line and the developers for that game said they'd rather eat glass than make a sequel.
I can think of a few games some would find fun but others who wouldn't.
I love old DOS games like the Original MechWarrior, battletech crescent hawks games, and the original Sid mires Pirates.
I have met a lot of younger people who think you need the best of the best PCs because you need the super high ultra depth graphics to have a fun experience.
They see old DOS games as boring and would say that DOS games was not fun.
Fun doesn't mean a game has to be lighthearted and whimsical all the time. It just means the game doesn't have to be depressing for 20 hours straight. I've played games with very dark or heavy story elements, but it's offset by the fun stuff. For example, Cyberpunk 2077 has some really dark story moments, but there are times that are meant to be silly or more lighthearted in order to provide relief. I can go from discovering something extremely disturbing somewhere in the city to talking to and befriending a sentient vending machine.
Hmm... That's deep... So... what category does Witch House fall into? It's 100% depressing. I guess dying over and over is/would be the happiest/fun thing in that game?
a good example i find is "bloodborne" tragic story...fun game
Yakuza main story vs side stories
when a planet and a civilization's fate is in your hands but there are funny carrot people
@@baltstop2702*100% accurate*
OP: "Hurr Durrr, I made a bad take, must be my gender , you're all children!"
Crowd: "We know you're wrong, keep crying."
Me: "Calling out stupid shit said is what we do."
Bro, even Dark Souls is fun. If you don't like it, don't play those games? There are others. The OP is hard Projecting to get attention.
Apparently that's the new thing, when you have a horrible take that most anyone would say is wrong you just call the other person a child and call it a day. It happened to me a few days ago.
@@worldslargestnerd That isn't new. That's been happening for a very long time.
@@worldslargestnerd If all they have are personal attacks, you've already won. Just because they refuse to admit it doesn't mean it's not true; Same with the truth. Neither are dependent on belief.
I don't know where to start on this one so many things to address like what people mean when they say fun and what people have fun doing but I have to get back to work
7:50 the play to earn type games (usually crypto based) are not fun to play and the people who play them mainly do so for the money aspect
I think the people that believe "video games (or movies) don't need to be fun" are only looking through the lense of "everything is happy and go lucky".
A game with engaging gameplay or story (even something simple like animal crossing or Minecraft) can all be fun if done well. It's also why some people continue to play games that they rage at or claim they hate.
I call it the “I’m an artist” mentality/personality (not to be confused with actual artists, but rather a very specific and often highly annoying type of person who more often than not are actually not very good at artistry, ironically enough). Those “types” of people seem to never be happy with anything that isn’t actively deconstructed into pointless oblivion and/or beats you over the head with whatever their message is (or strangely, the polar opposite, being intentionally extremely cryptic but insisting on the deepness of what they’re making) with an very prominent “look at me, I’m an so great and special and important” way of presenting themselves that seems to pull in some people but repel the vast majority of them. I’m sorry if this was badly worded, it’s past 4:00 am and I’m suffering from day three of insomnia again, so I hope what I’m saying makes sense.
@@forsociopoliticalstuff2629 I agree and I understood what you were trying to say.
All games can not be fun BUT all game developers must aspire to make FUN games, otherwise there's no point. Even if a game is depressing, sad, you can feel various emotions and have fun through experiencing it.
they literally don't know what fun is, there's video games that have made me cry and they're still fun
Huh... I remember how we had them crappy pc games for learning. Hell they were fun.
Although now that I think about it... Ever since I was small I never read the manual... What an odd thought to have...
Well, is not like TLOU2 was made to be fun, it was made to cover the progressive agenda, even for the devs it was just work, so instead of focusing on the fun they focused on being "engaging".
More like focused on the depravity.
The game doesn't even have that much woke in it, it's simply fucking boring and annoying.
The Crash Bandicoot N sane trilogy sold over 10 million copies
The Last of Us Part 2 sold 10 million copies
HD remaster of an obscure title literally sold the same amount as the sequel to what is Apparently one of the greatest games of all time
And Crash Bandicoot is a PlayStation exclusive
@@hello_mr.yomi6627 N Sane Trilogy is not a Playstation exclusive. I have it on my Xbox One.
@@hello_mr.yomi6627crash bandicoot is definitely not obscure
I used to read a great deal of dark and edgy fiction, as well as a lot of very thought-provoking fiction, sometimes both. Both of those, regardless of their themes, still have and had every capacity to be entertaining.
Which means they are fun.
Season 1 of the return of Bleach is done, and the second season is currently rolling out. And man its fuckin great.
i think the word to describe the example of horror games and such is "engaging" ironically enough and by extension the reasoning behind the devs saying "we dont use the word fun" i guess it needed context or not to be so tsun tsun against the word "fun"
Some games are for the challenge, but even the challenge is fun, people that play chess still have fun, even if it is stressful sometimes, and movies that are sad or "not fun" but carry an "enriched experience" if you think it was worth watching it then you had fun, the concept of fun is quite broad and you can have fun watching something sad or reading something that is not amusing as long as it sparks your interest then you are having fun
Beta testers sounds like a horrible job
Except Kirito, he's a _different kind_ of beta tester
@@Anugrah_Amriza yep
@@Anugrah_Amriza he's a beater
ALPHA BETAS however! Let's go Mr. Vanoss!
That's just Early Access/preorders with extra steps
I started playing games way before the term "gamer" was around, and to this day, I still play games for "fun", which can be found in a lot of ways, as mentioned in the vid with the chess example, heck even bad games can be fun in their own way.
I don't understand how this creature who posted the complaint work, must be a buggy AI.
I liked bleach back in like 2006 but it got old during the nice teacher dude is actually evil arch. Don’t remember his name.
"Games are not supposed to be fun"
Then what the heck are they?
Terminally online leftist weirdos think that the sole purpose of games is to push their leftist ideology. They only care about The Message. Fun gets in the way of The Message, which means fun must be removed.
Unfortunately there are plenty of game developers/publishers these days that would rather you play a live service game as if it were a job, repeating the same tasks over and over again til the end of time in the hopes of maybe getting something decent as a reward (that you usually need to pay for the chance to get aka battle passes). As long as there is engagement they don't care about fun at all.
There are certain games i play that arent fun but have stellar stories that carry it for me. In other cases I've played games I had a blast playing but depressed the shit outta me by the end. There's always a balance 😂
A quick thought about the Druckmann quote, so might be wrong... _fun_ would include _engagement;_ however, _fun_ would be strictly _voluntary engagement,_ where as the term _engagement_ alone would include _forceful engagement_ such as punishment, "struggle session," and other coercive and lecturous methods which won't leave the person satisfactory or that they spent their time well in learning or experiencing something regardless of what emotions involved or the difficulty thereof. (And not only emotional difficulty, that probably applies to effort difficulty like the "dark souls" thing over the inherent mechanics.) And that kind of boarding terminological assertion tends to correspond with a mal-intent to engage in such things under guise.
You can still make a piece of art fun. In fact, I think making games fun adds highly to their value! Story and gameplay should go hand in hand!
Yeah that's why visual novel or telltale game are strange i dont' considere those as game but more as an interactive movie.
Engaging with a depressing, grueling game can be fun for people who enjoy that sort of thing. The whole idea of fun is very flexible.
I mean... Dark souls is a prime exemple of that. Dark, bleak setting with little on the way of hope and that reflects in the gameplay that is out to kick your ass. But letting you fight against the odds and eventually overcome them is fun
@@thorveim1174 dark souls, neir, disco Elysium, heck even breath of the wild had some depressing moments but the moments actually meant something were given proper weight and effort and created fun.
@@thorveim1174 I find the gameplay, the world, the themes and the atmosphere fun in those games. Gameplay especially.
I spent way to much time last night trying to think of what they could possibly actually mean by that. My only conclusion I could even kind of think is their definition of fun is... incredibly narrow or they don't actually know what FUN means.
They had a few replies to people disagreeing with them me including how the words entertaining and fun don't mean the same thing. Which... they literally do.
i too would say games do not need to be fun the same as not every movie needs to fun some movies are art pieces designed to make you think some movies are so scary that some people will faint and games can do that. Some games are tough as nails where a single mistake means death where the whole game disempowers you and makes you feel weak like you can do nothing and the satisfaction comes from being able to progress at all. In my opinion the only deciding factor if game is good or not is how well the idea of the devs is executed. This is because what one person might find exiting the other might find boring i hate roughelikes others love them and so on so agame can never be graded on how fun it is just how well executed it is
It's almost like they actually want pushback so that they can be a martyr.
as usual, Filthy Tourists that uses anime profile pictures are getting the Real Otakus bad rep.
But hey, at least we know now that Tourists does _not_ know the meaning of fun
Fun is racist now. Who knew? Time to cut some eye-holes in my white bedsheets.
Games are different from other forms of entertainment, I feel. Due to the interactivity a game has, it needs to be fun to even work. Other forms of media like Literature, Art and Movies have some leeway with that.
There's an old youtube video 'Fun is not enough' that was a good watch.
I get their argument, they just weren’t good at arguing. A “game” can invoke whatever emotion the creator wants. If they want to make a sad game, that’s fine. One can have fun when a game can make them feel even negative emotions.
Yes, negative emotions can definitely be fun. Fun doesn't mean happy or carefree. People have a lot of fun going on rollercoaster rides, even though the whole point of rollercoaster rides is to make you afraid.
The fun is in the challenge for most.
Not much of a gamer myself but gamers truly are some of the most oppressed people in society😢.
Also imagine being so weird(?) that you manage to be anti fun? How you wind up with that? Not even the stereotypical old guy on his porch is anti fun, he just doesn’t like it on his lawn!
Anyway hope yall have a good day, remember to hydrate and go for a walk if you can
(Late heart pls Hei?)
My guess is that what I'm calling "the cult" that these Twitter freaks seem to belong to turn the cultist into a mindless drone full of hated and misery that is too hard-hearted to enjoy life. All that matters is the ascension and the word of their false gods, the jerkoffs that "head" this cult.
I love games with a challenging difficulty, but just enough to make it tough and still be enjoyable.
That's why I have never got myself to play the souls games or games where the difficulty goes beyond (eg. Devil May cry who goes to Dante Must Die and further difficulties), cause it just takes away the fun for me.
I end up way more stressed than having fun and makes me not want to play the game anymore and the only thing which compromises me is my mentality of finishing the game but still questioning why I torture myself xD
For hardcore gamers who love a real challenge or souls gamers, respect for those.
And any casual gamer or newcomers in games who love playing in the easiest mode, as long as you enjoy the game and have fun, that's ok too.
About online games, well that depends, but I can enjoy them cause I know I may win eventually and it's not all on me 100% of the time (and also helps me to hone my skills on whatever specific game or genre); so, there's still a reason to have fun on those.
Whoever plays a game to stress even more considering whatever stress they may have in life, well that's their cup of tea I guess. Maybe they're actually privileged.
Sometimes part of the fun of a game is losing or dying a lot and what is fun for one person may not be fun to another, kinda like horror games I love a good horror game but can't enjoy a horror movie as they often use too much blood and gore for my taste and at least in some video games the amount of gore seems more realistic and not so much in or for movies.
"We say 'engaging'"
Odd way to admit being angry at a game counts as being engaged. I guess I was super engaged in Other M before I set the disc on fire.
Man. The game play was kinda neat, but literally everything else about it was burning trash, and that's me being NICE.
It is some good insight into modern western AAA game devs and how they think though. Past year one of Destiny 1, I was mad at how awful the game was 90% of the time… but I still played it.
And I’m not the only one. I’ve seen plenty of memes about nobody hating Destiny more than Destiny players. My favorite has to be this video where a guy is like, “bro, I hate this game so much” until he puts on the headset. Then he’s like, “ALRIGHT, WHO’S READY TO RAID?” These devs found out that, much like news sites have been doing for a decade now, they can profit off rage.
I genuinely thank God for pulling me out of Destiny before 2 even came out. I actually enjoy gaming again because offline games are fun. And hey, when my internet does act up, I don’t even notice because nothing happens
It's really telling when someone makes a take like this and instead of having a civil discussion with people about why they think that they instead just insult them with pretty boring insults at that, not even creative insults, wonder who's actually the kid here LMFAO.
The las of fun part 2 : rehashed mechanics and fetch quest.
a game doesn’t need to be melting your dopamine receptors all of the time. Even when a game “isn’t fun” it’s still fun otherwise you as a human would lose interest in it after a while.
That happened to me with the multiplayer from tomb raider 2013.
I got really good at pwning people in it which kinda made it a little repetitive, then the wait times for matches got really long (I suspect because it was dying) and i lost interest. The amount of unfun overcame the fun.