Wheel of Time Season 2, Episode 8 (What Was Meant To Be) Reaction!
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- Season 2 of #TheWheelofTime is here! Here's my reaction to episode 8, What Was Meant To Be
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00:00:00 - Intro
00:03:29:29 - Reaction
00:26:34:29 - Final Thoughts
Gueststarring: Doorways and Foreshadowing.
Mat creates an escape with a spear.
Lanfear pushes Moiraine through a gateway.
Sidenote, was in no way prepared to start crying when Mat called the heroes. But here we are.
Just watched for the third time, and I cried for the third time.
Did you catch when Ishy went to give Suroth orders about waiting for his signal to shield Rand that he was shaking off gray stone dust form his hands? He had just come from releasing the other Forsaken. I think Rand's "fight" with Turak actually completely fit from a show perspective. Liandrin even set it up with foreshadowing in her "chat" with Nynaeve back in S2E01 when she explained why should she bother fighting with a sword when she can use the One Power? We didn't have enough time for Rand to really develop his sword prowess beyond learning some forms from Erol, so it makes more sense that he would just instinctively lash out with the One Power and pull a "why did you bring a sword to a One Power fight" move.
I love that Lanfear helped get them the Horn (a woman from Cairhien as Ingtar said) and later we hear her with Bayle Doman and he asks "Selene" why she is so far from Cairhien. That was a fantastic drop there that she originally gave Bayle Domon the broken piece of Cuendillar from her own Seal to give to Moiraine. I don't think Moiraine created the Dragon. She looked like she was starting to send banners of fire toward the tower when the larger Dragon weave leaped out of the sea. I think this was again Lanfear's touch. Moiraine looked surprised by the Dragon.
I like that Dain's vendetta is now a bit more real and grounded as well. I can't wait until Perrin can re-unite with Hopper in Tel'aran'rhiod! Moggy as the Spider was absolutely brilliant! And I love that we got to see the Sealing from the Age of Legends as well.
Rand using that much power out of the blue probably was my least-liked part of this episode. As he has spent several episodes trying to level up his powers and not being able to do so. And now, he's just there without any explanation.
At the same time, they did level up Matt's powers on screen in a very believable way.
Agree about Dain's vendetta -- much more realistic, and Perrin will be more believably conflicted about his choices in the Two Rivers.
I saw Ishy with the dusty hands. But I'd completely forgotten about it by the ending of the episode.
@@dragondog3180 They wrote themselves into a hole. They have shown pretty much none of Rand's prep. They deleted a lot of his accomplishments and/or gave them away. They're crippling his narrative and the only way you can write him as a mary sue. Season 2 was better than season 1. But if Season 3 isn't essentially focused on Mat and Rand then I'm losing faith that they'd ever write Rand in a compelling way
@@dreamshakejunya And on a rewatch, I agree that they have shown more of his growth in the power than his training with the sword, so I like that scene better now.
From what I've heard, one of the places they will record for season 3 is the Two Rivers when Perrin goes home. What that means for Rand and Mat, I don't know.
Moggy was probably shielding Lanfear in that scene- which is why there was the visceral reaction when the spider web went away
I know it was hard for you to stay awake to watch - but your fans thank you! One of my first thoughts after watching the episode was, "I can't wait to hear what LezbiNerdy thought of this!" (Personally I LOVED it.)
Also if you notice, the weaves used by Moiraine are far more complex and take a lot of time and hand moving (in the books it is explained that some weaves, especially 100 weaves of the Aes Sedai testing are so needlessly complex that some of them cannot be done without using hands as a focal point). I think it compensates for the lack of Moiraine’s raw power. If you remember correctly, in S01E01, Moiraine launches multiple medium sized fireballs on trollocs almost instantaneously, which implies she was relying on raw strength rather than complex weaves.
Also when Egwene is fighting Ishamael, she is using a broad range defensive weave rather than an offensive weave like Moiraine used in S01E08. Had she tried attacking Ishamael rather than just defending, it would have ended rather badly if not worse for Egwene. Also shield used by Egwene was made of fine, streamlined flows. In books RJ explicitly says that dexterity can make up for lack in raw power. And Egwene is one of the most if not the most dexterous weaver in white tower. It is often mentioned by wise ones and her Aes Sedai teachers that the remarkable pace at which she learns a new thing is amazing. She split her flow of one power into 14 flows even when dosed on fork root. She has mastered all the healing weaves perfectly as said by Suana (Yellow Ajah Head) which are most difficult weaves even though she lacks the specific Talent for healing.
Broadcast THIS to all the naysayers of my girl Egwene. Rand is going to have SO MANY OP moments, why can’t Egwene have this one!
Love this explanation. Makes perfect sense
Also, off screen, Egwene has been trained by the Sean Chan in offensive and defensive weaves ...
Mats battle cry was “Dovie'andi se tovya sagain".
Which means “It’s time to roll the dice”
I don’t hate what they did with Nynaeve. She has had a lot of big moments. And it is okay not to have one this time. It would have been nice to see her break the shield that was on Rand. But I am okay with Moraine.
I think that Nynaeve showing that she needs Elayne is showing her maturity which goes with her story arc. I didn’t even like her in the books until after she stopped being so combative and stubborn. About book 4? I like that it came sooner. She went from being my least liked character to one of my favorites.
I know Nynaeve feels like she has to protect all the Eamon’s Fielders. She has a special bond with them as she has taken care of them since they were children. More so with Egwene since she healed her with the one power.
Nynaeve letting go and not needing to be Egwene’s savior opens her up to pursue her own path instead of just protecting all of them. It is also her acknowledging that the kids have grown up.
As for Elayne healing Rand, I like it. There was a thing where has Nynaeve has a special connection to Egwene because she healed her with the power.
I feel like we now have a stronger connection between Elayne and Rand that somehow was so weak in the books. If Nynaeve had done the healing I feel like it would have left less of a scar. The scar shows how Elayne can heal but it isn’t her forte.
100% agree with creating a better connection with Rand and Elayne (and everything else you wrote). They did an excellent job on this with Selene and Rand as well, which I thought was very lacking in the books imo.
@@lindsayharris6597 Romance is not Robert Jordan’s forte. I am doing a reread now as I read the books over 20 years ago when I was a teen. And I am constantly gobsmacked by how bad some of it is. I feel like this is an opportunity for the show to do better. I am sure purists will not agree.
@@Korrale Imo, the best romance was Moraine with Thom, since despite not being blatantly obvious, there were some snippets in their interactions.
So funny how many people made that Indiana Jones connection independently.
They could have given him a cool sword battle if they didn't delete his training. It's kind of wild that Nynaeve is the best-trained swordsperson from the Two Rivers...
YES HOPPER!! NO HOPPER!! was my exact same reaction
I was full on crying in scene with Mat & heroes. Such a great scene. And Brotcher Patchy in the gang too :)
The hopper scene got to me big time
Felt good man. It seemed like Mat finally stopped questioning who he is as a person.
I literally rolled my eyes at the scene with Mat and the horn. It was so cheesy! “I remember!” 🙄
I love that Rands first image of Elayne is when she is healing him. I still miss the garden in Caemlyn but this was great!
Yeah, I liked that too. The fact that both the book and the movie have his first view of her being her healing him was a nice callback given the otherwise very different introduction between them.
And she swallows her last name... just Elayne.
change for the sake of changes. I'd rather they cut out the Stephan storyline ep from season 1 and used that for those scenes or cut out the stupid Lan/Alanna scenes from season 2. Rooting for the cancelation of this garbage fire hate letter by Rafe.
@@jonahdav9589 Listen to Wheel Takes podcast about that. Ali explains why they could not include the Caemlyn plotline in S1. Its a TV thing , i still miss that part but i get it now. I had my problems with S1 but S2 is miles ahead of that and its worth watching
@@jonahdav9589 you are a sad pos. Good luck in life w that trashitude.
omg I just caught that Lanfear was the one that told Moiraine to raise the banner!!
totally missed that on my first watch through.
Also, at first I was really disappointed that Nynaeve didn't get to kick ass with her power in the last episode, but I then remembered how amazing and powerful it was in the books when she finally does get to use it...and I think the show was right to keep it as an extra special treat for later. She's going to blow our socks off in the next season, I just know it!
I love that they made sure everybody knows that Moghi is the Spider.
That's not how I pictured Moghedien, but the second I saw her I knew who she was.
I think a good explanation for Egwene's super sayan moment is if she has a Talent for defensive weaves. In the books, we see similar examples, like that one woman in the Kin who is very weak in the Power, but has a Talent for shielding with her special stretchy shields that stretch but won't break, and says she could shield one of the Forsaken.
Or they could go with her just being that powerful when she's defending her friends, but I like the first option better.
I have many thoughts on this episode.
To the location of the Waygate, they were built centuries ago and coastlines will change over that time. If the grove found itself in a coastal dune area after the Breaking then the sea could have advanced.
As for Egwene holding off Ishamael, he had just broken 6 of the seals. That must have taken a lot of channeling which will have exhausted him. Coupled with the fact that he wanted to turn Rand, killing Egwene wouldn't get him there. So he had to beat Egwene down but take care not to actually kill Egwene. Dead, she would only enrage Rand. At his mercy, she would push Rand to the edge; or over it.
Still, at the end there Egwene is clearly faltering only for everybody else to show up. I think Ishamael kind of gave up at that point. Especially when Rand's shield dropped and he'd been healed. All season Ishamael has told us he's tired, that he wants it to end, I think in that moment with his own plan dashed to pieces he just wanted to have it end if only for himself.
But I don't think the Dark One will let him go.
Keep in mind that although "so weak wasn't even recognized the channel"
Is a suitble explanation, especially for new viewers.... But it's also possibly an unreliable narrator situation... The green doesn't necessarily have all of those answers.... And even if she did, having felt so powerless, she might not share that information if she has it! There's a certain satisfaction most likely and calling the sudame "too weak", I would imagine. They could still introduce the 'can learn to channel' situation, if there is ever any reason to do so in the storytelling.
More likely they just simplified it for the show. They've abandoned most of the rules and lore around channeling for the show. Probably not the worst decision. The rules are extensive and complex in the books.
I'm a little sad we didn't get much Nynaeve in this episode, but its ok. I think Egwene saving herself and killing Rena is way more satisfying. Nynaeve has a very scary forsaken in her future and on that thought, I cannot express how much I loved this interpretation of Moghedien.
Also, could it be, that in the age of legends people were more comfortable showing and receiving physical affection? That would explain the mannerism of the forsaken.
The reason that you didn’t get much Nynaeve is primarily because Egwene swallowed up everything Rand and Nynaeve had to do.
The entire point of Egwene’s arc in this story was to learn to rely and trust in others. But it someone became a self redemption arc so the snow could could place her equal (or above Nynaeve). Egwene is getting *HUGE* buffs and Nynaeve and Rand are getting nerfed
Egwene freeing herself made Rand and Nynaeve useless.
Amazing timing! 😂 I just finished watching for the second time (following the 6 hour Dusty Wheel stream) and as soon as the credits started I heard the ping from discord announcing this video... Should I watch it now or be sensible and go to bed 🤔 ...in any case leaving the first 👍
Same! Watched once with the Dusty Wheel, then once with my wife, then finished on the Dusty Wheel stream! Hahahah! What is this sleep?!
Chef’s kiss was this episode! So good moments, Moiraine, Egwene, Mat and of course my favourite Forsaken was shown.
The Forsaken deserve a spin-off show on their own.
What happens when you take 7 Forsaken and put them in the same house and record them 24/7? We are going to find out. Welcome to Big Brother: Forsaken Edition.
yeap, except you forgot one name. the main protagonist, rand. but it makes sense since rand has done fuck all for 2 seasons now lol. can't belive they relegated him to being a secondary character for 2 seasons. well i guess season 3 might be different. watching the same show over and over again and hoping rand will become the main character at some point, at this point seems like the definition of insanity lol.
I love the idea that Mat is OUR Mat, as in, he's a hero of the horn from the previous turning of the Wheel, the one from the books.
Oh, that is awesome if true!!
no he wasn't. did you not read the last book? matt was never a hero of the horn. he specifically asks Arthur that and Arthur says no.
@@xyr3sThat doesn't mean he couldn't have become one since then. New heroes are sometimes added.
@@amykat4265 could be, but it's not in the books is my point. he isn't "our matt". what happens after is head cannon :D
@@xyr3s Arthur didn't say he was a hero of teh horn, he said he had fought by his side a thousand times.
Matt and Perrin as much part of the Dragon's past present and future as anyone.
Yessss I was waiting for your reaction!
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the dagger giving Rand his first unHealable wound - the ramifications this has way down the line are HUGE! Unless they switch the second one, it has major impacts on how Rand figures out one of the biggest plot twists and major events in the entire book series! I also hated that we never got a redemption story for Ingtar - he went out a hero, yes, but his reveal and redemption was one of my favorite scenes from the books, and I don't think it came through.
OTOH, I LOVED the Turak kill - that change was GREAT! And I too am VERY intrigued at how they're portraying Moggy - I really liked the interpretation of the character. Lan and Moiraine being total badasses was epic, and the fall of Hopper was expected but I bet it came out of the blue for non-readers!
Egwene isn't as strong as Ishy, but she's strong enough to not be swept aside by a flick of the wrist.
Except when she wasn't, when Ishy first showed up that's exactly what he did to her. I think the only justification for Ishy's level of assault being well beneath his already demonstrated capability is all about trying to get Rand to cry uncle.
@@nucklechutz9933he wanted to die, not kill. Why is no one getting that point. He never intended to do anything he was telling everybody, he was just keeping his oath to the Dark. His ultimate goal was to die. And Egwene was struggling to hold him off while he was practically toying with her. It was fitting.
@@christopherdavis6918 Yeah that's a good point, you could argue at that point he's just throwing because he knows the game is over, he knows Rand's shield is gonna be broken soon. I mean it should be obvious, if Moiraine can sink a navy and summon a massive fire dragon, then Ishy could have done the same, right? Could have burned the whole damn tower with his own fire dragon. He was clearly on to plan B at this point, and sure, dying is probably part of it.
She was fighting as hard as she could. He’s playing with her.
@@angemcauslan2551 No he wasn't
Thinking of trying to put together certain Lanfear and/or Elayne outfits... don't really want to cosplay Ishy but it seems like it would be so easy to play him just by going around touching people's faces 😝
If Ishy overpowered Egwene, he'd have to hurt her, which would kill his last chance of turning Rand, but if he didn't pressure her, she'd attack him directly and he'd have to split his focus. The moment he notices Rand's shield drop, he realizes he's lost and gives up.
Eggy only put a physical barrier up against Ishy, and barely. Shes certainly not his equal in power. Defending is easier than attacking.
And Nynaeve didn't only attack, she won. Egwene just held a defensive position temporarily.
Another thing i realized that it ultimately wasn't Eggy who saved them... it was Uno who did (He gave the shield to Perrin).
I LOVE sleep deprived Lezbi. This episode was a lot for an awake brain.
Oh wow I just realized the dragon snaking around the tower is STRONG foreshadowing for tattoo around the wrists, not just an analogue for the dragon banner.
And yeah Nynaeve's frustrations are the perfect setup for next season being her "if i were more ___ I'd have been able to help" just like this season was for Egwene.
I cried when I saw Uno, and they were very much tiers of joy. And that he will be merged with Gaidal Cain was also a thing that I speculated on.
Yeah, this one moved on the heart strings (Although i knew Ingtar and Hopper were coming, i at least hoped they kept Ingtar alive, especially due to the Masema plot and Uno being the only one who could keep him in check), but Uno being a hero i didn't see coming (But i am so down for it, since if i could choose 2 characters from the books to become the most recent hero's, it would 100% be Uno and Mat).
I'm just at the beginning of watching your video and I cracked up when you were talking about how there's too much touching happening. I was literally squealing ick! Stop touching! When I saw it. There's something about the caressiness of their face touches that makes my skin crawl. Great way to make the Forsaken feel creepy while seeming normal-ish.
Moirain's dragon this episode is just an adaptation of that fence that she "stepped" over in the first book.
18:09 I really wish Perrin would have said the words, "to soar" there, translating Hopper's sending. Perfect Easter egg for book readers and an introduction for watchers to the idea that Perrin can put words to the bundle of sensations and ideas he's receiving.
Loved this episode. The show made the best ending it could with the limited amount of time they had to wrap up the season. Anyone else get a Bjork vibe from Moghedien or was it just me?
Thank you! I was trying to figure out were I had seen Moggie before (or who she reminded me of) since I haven´t seen any of the movies that the actor has been in, but you are absolutely right. It was Björk that I mistook her for.
Yes, loving Bjorkhedien!
I got a drusella from buffy vibe from ehr with the sing-songy high pitched crazy voice
Rafe has done much better with the villains than the protagonists so far, except Egwene maybe.
Liandrin, Izzy, Lanfear and now Moghedien are genuinely brilliantly done.
For those who think Rand shouldn't be using that much power, my explanation is that he is simply natural and flawless when it comes to the one power and by using his brain muscle he might be able to remember some few tricks up his sleeve from previous dragons 🐉
In 3000 years the topography changes. It's very possible that the place the Waygate was used to be a beautiful verdant habitat. Perhaps in the years the ocean has slowly push into the land...people had to leave and the Waygate is the only thing left
My head canon said the waygate was in a grove before the breaking, but after ended up on that sandbar
Theory about Ishy and some of the forsaken. Maybe in the show they aren't particularly the strongest channelers, but because they lived in the age of legends they know how to do things the people in the current age don't. Ishy might not be as strong in the power as Egwene, but he has other tools in his toolbox. I hope we get Fares back.
Anyways, get a good night sleep!
You are the first person I turn to after an episode. I watched this episode with my two special dogs (my sister's and my daughter's) and found Hopper's death especially hard to take when I looked at them. Glad you are back.
13:52 Man that was quite lucky of Mat to run into his friend Perrin. What are the odds?
Good thing Mat is so darn lucky. 😂
I don't think Egwene can match Ishy's power, but she was merely using air as as shield. Maybe they want to show that with her strength, she is able to hold him back for a short time? She was clearly struggling while Ishy wasn't even breaking a sweat. I think he was just a bit surprised she became powerful in such a short time?
SPOILERY COMMENT - I think you're right, that they did have a goal in that last confrontation scene between Ishy and the gang - I think they will try and explore next seasons Nyneave's motivation for becoming an Aes Sedai (as appose to just going along with it, somewhat reluctantly, as she does in this season), that they wanted to build up Egwayne, to show that she was "forged" and came out stronger from her ordeal with the Seanchen, as well as maybe giving us an explanation for why she might be considered for Amyrlin after the coup, and also a possible explanation for Ishy coming back later on - he "took the fall" knowing that Lanfear messed with his plans and the only solution was to "sacrifice" himself at this point so that he can ultimately win the war (though it does make me wonder how they are going to do Moridiin in the show, because I low key fell in love with this actor for Ishamael and I don't really want to see anyone else portraying him, but if he isn't incarnated, it won't make much sense in terms of the lore..)
My emotions in this swung wildly. From rage to joy, happiness to fear. It was so much.
I have ben saying this for three weeks: Every time Natasha O'Keefe is on-screen I go "She'd probably kill me after a couple weeks, but they'd be FUN weeks" Then I start thinking about the creativity of my impending death....
Moghedien could be playing up the madness to intimidate Lanfear. That would be a very bok-Moggie thing to do.
You earned yourself a subscriber here. ❤
I think Egwene isn’t strong enough to fight ishy(yet) but she is strong enough to defend herself and others from him. She seems to be devoting all her energy to just that barrier and that makes sense to me.
Following your brain on sleep depravation for the final watch is entertaining, I had to say it ! Enjoying your reviews & reactions for season 2.
I need your help to understand something. I rewatch the final, Lews Therin told Ishy that even him could not broke the seal to free him. Rand broke Ishy's seal be channeling + the sa' angreal. How Ishy have been able to broke all the 6 seals only with his power ? Am I missing something ? (I ask the same question to Kritter XD)
I know that they had to give Moraine something to do; but I dislike they didn't let Bridgette shoot the ships.
I think my only serious complaint about this episode is how much they sidelined Nynaeve and Elayne. Everyone else gets at least one awesome moment but they are just kinda along for the ride.
I was really glad they didn't try to have Rand fight with the sword, it just wouldn't have been believable with no training at this point in the show.
Have they done away with the cutting of weaves in channeling fights? Putting aside whether or not Egwene would have the strength to defend against Ishy for even a little while, in the books he would have been attempting to cut her weaves and get rid of the shield, not throw fireballs at it. Granted fireballs are more visually impressive and cinematic so I get why they would make that choice.
Thank you for your dedication to film this reaction right off the airplane!
That sword Rand used to kill Ishy certainly doesn’t appear to be a sword anymore, eh?😊
Okay, im not the only one who thinks Uno is Gaidal Cain! Thank you!!
You with the incomprehensible squeaking when you saw Uno.😂😂
Same, girl. Same.😁
Egwene doesn't match Ishamael, he's not able to immediately over power her, but he quickly smashes through her shield. She specifically says she's done to Rand before Perrin arrives.
Yeah the seemingly re-bonding was beautiful but confusing - as far as I understood it, she masked the bond then got shielded so she couldn’t unmask it, and certainly couldn’t release it until the shield was gone… It’s good to show the audience what bonding weaves look like, but huh?
I think that Moiraine didn't actually mask the bond at the end of Season 1; she released it expecting that she might die. Which is why Lan didn't lose his shit at the severing of their connection and why he no longer had the warder bond benefits. It made perfect sense that she actually rebonded him. The taunting she said to Lan about passing his bond to Alanna was just that...taunting in an effort to push him away.
Honestly the merge between Uno and Gaidal is a good one imo. It lets them scare us book fans by killing him off, and he can return to assist at points. And since he'll be connected to Birgitte and Nynaeve still, a lot of what he says and does can still be intertwined in a unique and different way. And the close up shot of Uno just happening to have Brigitte beside him was so framed on purpose.
I have a feeling they are changing the show a little bit with Birgittes storyline and that Uno/Gaidal is getting forced out of Dreamworld first and then Birgitte also does, where Uno/Gaidal becomes the Guardian of the Boys and Birgitte the Guardian of the Girls, but yeah, this isn't the last time we have seen Uno, thats for sure.
except we get no Oliver now from the books. Just Rafe again thinking he is better than the actual author.
@jonahdav9589 why would this effect Olver at all? You do know the theory that Olver was Gaidal has been disproved multiple times yes? Olver is a separate individual, if they chose to keep or cut him it has nothing to do with this.
Not only did Moiraine raise the banner, she did it because Lanfear told her to.
She did it because of the prophecy.
@@christopherdavis6918 Moiraine or Lanfear? Or both?
@@dragondog3180 Moiraine. She told Verin she wanted to fulfill the prophecy. She wasn’t doing what Lanfear wanted, she was doing the only thing she had left, to support Rand in fulfilling the prophecies.
@@christopherdavis6918Which also was what Lanfear wanted her to do.
I've watched the ep twice now and have been so excited for your reaction! My wife asked a great Q: how was Moiraine able to sink those ships with the One Power? Doesn't that violate the Oath not to use the power as a weapon? The Dragon was a little over the top for me as an OG reader, but I also dislike the ambiguous/hard-to-visualize endings of both EotW and TGH.
The show is playing fast and loose with this. She shouldn't have been able to unless she knew Suroth was a Darkfriend.
Amazon has the money, these seasons should be like 900s TV, 22-26 episodes, flesh the story out more. Show the mundane, but also show the wolf dream more. Next season will be sick if they hit certain points
Yes I would agree that the dragon 35:00 was literally over the top (of the tower). I loved it. 🧡
Book spoilers:
How I'm feeling:
On a day of fire and blood and the One Power, as prophecy had suggested, the unstained tower, broken, bent knee to the forgotten sign. The first nine Aes Sedai swore fealty to the Dragon Reborn, and the world was changed forever.
9:30 - We see the Blue Sitter blast away, which I'm not sure she should be able to do. Surely the oaths would prevent her, unless she could convince herself that she was in proper danger I guess. I wonder if fear for her own life (what the Sul'dam would do to her) would allow her to attack others or if she needs to feel in dnager from the people she attack. I guess it comes down to interpretation and Aes Sedai word-twisting
Jenny. Same. So the same. 8 episodes isn't enough. Need 90 minutes openers and finals if that's the case. There was so much going on I just couldn't deal. I loved so so much and was a bit disappointed by others. Ingtar didn't land etc but hopper so beautiful. The set up for the TR campaign was so good. Overwhelmed.
I had the same reaction when the original opener started playing
Thank you for your reaction after your long journey! I look forward to all the discussions to come while we wait for Season 3!! Perhaps an episode of Braidwatch is in our future? 😁🤞
We need the wolf dream, and now! 🐺
When my guy Loial says "What of the heroes of *today*?" Ooh, the feels.
I feel like that was 100% foreshadowing for Mat and Uno, but we didn't realize until Mat blew the horn.
I am very glad we have the show and that it isnt a true retelling. If it was we readers would still find flaws in quality and be unsatisfied. Instead we still get suprised how events turn out and it is fun to watch.
I agree the dragon was over the top. I thought it could have gone around the tower and straight up turning clouds red and disipating. Have the aiel interpret it or reveal the visual next season with a physical banner. No super face detail or legs this season, just basic flame face shape trailed by a body of fire would have been plenty. Tv watchers know what a dragon is, let them interpret as subtle, not a wet fish in thw face.
Still cant wait for season 3.
I thought they'd keep Ingtar another season and do his redemption arc travelling with Mat in season 3.
I think torturing the captured sul'dam, and then feeling that sul'dam die with an arrow in her neck messed Nynaeve up more than they were able to convey in the episode. Add that to the way she has been struggling with the block and I was not surprised she could not pull herself together to channel during the battle.
I know Season 2 was a complete rewrite after the fiasco of the end of Season 1 and the Mat recast. They had a LOT of work to do to get his character where he needs to be...but this conclusion, and making him a hero of the horn was SUPER satisfying. He had almost lost hope, Ishy had led him to believe he wasn't just a bad person, but he had always been a bad person, lifetime after lifetime, destined to only hurt those he loves...then to realize he was not only a good person, but a hero of the horn. What a redemption arc! It may spell the doom for the inclusion of the finn in the show, but it was really a terrific arc for Mat as a character and really hit emotionally. Way to make lemonade Rafe!!
I’m so intrigued by Moggy and can’t wait to see her next season. I think she’ll give us horror vibes.
I hope we get to see the sword training arc next season. I understand why they didn't do it here because we really didn't see him ever practicing beyond the what he could have done working as an medical aid. It was nice to see him channel with purpose and control, though!
They have to increase Mogi’s power to make her a suitable nemesis for our girl.
I really liked this episode, changes and all... except for the Marvel superhero pose by everyone on the tower at the end and Moiraine trying to compete with Gandalf at making the better imaginary dragons. (I also question people cheering for the dragon, but maybe they were just cheering the end of the Seanchan rule.)
The best parts are getting the show back on track and recovering from season 1, finally fixing Matt (he is BACK!), and really setting up the stories for all the main characters in season 3.
This was a really fun season to watch.
I am very happy.... except now we have to wait up to 2 more years for season 3.
Thanks for posting.
My wife went from "Yay hopper is here!" To guttural scream.
I had the same thought about Egwene and Ishamael. I don't believe for a second that anything that happened on top of that tower once Ishamael showed up was as it seemed. I certainly don't think Egwene can match a Forsaken.
I think that he was playing 4D chess with all of them, but most especially with Lanfear. I think this whole bit of theater was meant to convince her that he's dead. He has always known she would betray him. And she wants to believe that she suceeded, so he knows she will believe it.
Ishy casually flicks Egwene away with the Power when he first arrives, but later she's able to hold her own against him? Suuuuuure. Ishy dupes Mat into stabbing Rand by using Power-wrought illusion, then later Rand somehow succeeds where Mat failed? Suuuuure. _Nothing we saw was as it seemed._
I speculate that Ishamael awoke Moghedien, Graendal, and the others as part of his plan from the beginning. I think Moghedien at least is working on his behalf. Because why would she care about Rand? Why would she threaten Lanfear to stay away from Rand? That's what _Ishy_ wants.
Lanfear wanted Rand to proclaim himself as the Dragon Reborn, and manipulated Moiraine into helping in that effort. Ishamael used that desire and gave her everything she wanted, even his own death. Now he can control her without her knowing, because she won't be able to account for his actions in her plans.
I would not be a bit surprised to see Ishy next season chilling in Arad Doman with Graendal. If anyone is going to not underestimate Graendal and recognize her value in a fight against Lanfear, it's this version of Ishamael. And this version of Ishamael might even understand what Graendal wants, which isn't at all what anyone believes she wants. And once Graendal hears the details of everything that happened, she will immediately know that Ishamael isn't dead anyway. I think it would be funny to see a scene where he shows up at her palace, knowing that she figured it out.
I didn't see it as Eqwene being as strong as Ishy. If so he wouldn't be able to break through her shield. Shes close but not equal. Strong enough to hold him/them off for a few minutes but succumbing eventually in a one on one. Perin saved them once he broke through.
I loved every minute of it.
It may have been something like the magic version of a mother lifting a car, pumped full of adrenaline, to save a trapped child beneath it, kind of thing. It's also kind of a metaphor for her iron will and unbreakable determination, from later on in the series. Hey arc late this season was the experience that she forged herself because of, in the books.... It's cool they captured some of who she'll become so early in the show. In the books The storylines that made Egwene fans fall in love with her, came much much later. Some of the earlier events in the books I think put people off to Egwene (and certain later conflicts bright that disposition back)..... I'm one of those wheel of time fans that loved her arcs in the early latter part of the series.... wasn't a favorite character earlier on. But she won me over big time.
Trying to avoid actual book spoilers!
The fact they had Perrin step in and apparently help with the magic shield suggests they are trying to make it plain that Egwene is not strong enough to hold him off alone. She certainly isn't able to go on the offensive and isn't meant to be as strong as him.
Technically, it were both Uno and Perrin who saved them (That was Uno's shield).
I wonder if they are gearing up to make Mat be Hawkwing reborn. Edit: I see Hawkwing credited as Adrian Bouchet. I just didn't know who Hawkwing was because he doesn't talk.
Geophram always gave off "Best possible whitecloak" vibes in the book IMO. I know i know, Galad, but hes the EXCEPTION.
And oh HOPPER knowing didnt make it any better.
Also with Matt being a Hero, I've always wondered if he was SUPPOSED to be one all along? When Hawkwing calls him Gambler. That feels like a title to me, not just a nickname.
And I think you've stumbled on a theory about people in the Age of Legends not having personal space issues, maybe because in a time where noone killed/there was no war etc there was nothing to FEAR from other people, so why worry about them invading your space? Think about what that would genuinely say about a society. You'd been so long without murder that people didn't mind being in extremely close proximity because they had no internal fear response? Could they have honestly thought that out or am I working too hard? Im actually REALLY into that now. I want to make a video about it into it.
Egwene can put up a shield. She couldn’t fight Ishy. She is UNBREAKABLE.
Thank you Jenny for your commitment. Loved the video. Hope you get some well earned rest.
27:21 this feels like a moghedien that was reserved in age of legends but time in the seal and being betrayed/underestimated by other forsaken as led her to be more mad, quirky, and direct.
Valda is going to have a Wolf Phobia at this rate.
Rafe said he combined Rand's fight with Turok with how he took out a bunch of bandits in TDR, where they died kneeling to him.
built up and let down again. Egwene takes s1 ep 8 moments from Rand and now again in s2 ep 8. Jake Al'thor not Rand Al'Thor.
To me the Lan and Moraine scene played as intimate but platonic rather than romantic
For power levels in the show (based on comments from season 1 as well):
I think Nynaeve’s power was pushed up closer to the Rand/Lanfear levels. I think she’s about as strong as they come (and they’ve also maybe her block less navigable).
Egwene, I think, is now closer to where Nynaeve was in the books. Elayne and Avi will likely be close to that.
And the Siuan/Moiriane are probably a little stronger as well, but still under those.
And yeah, I also don’t think Ishy was trying all that hard. Not just giving up, but also not going that hard.
I cant remember being so emotionally involved in an hour of television before (perhaps the red wedding but in a different way) . Loved it. I dont think egwene matched ishy btw, she held him off for a few minutes thats all.
First time watching. The theme song is great.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought I recognized Lady Amalisa and Steppin among the Heroes of the Horn, along with Uno.
I thought that looked like Steppin too! Not sure about Lady Amalisa, I'll have to watch again and look closely...
@@amykat4265 I thought Amalisa was the one on Mat's left, who he hands the horn to (which is symbolic, considering where it was found, if it is her)
Noo that's Amaresu!
i straight up yelled
can't remember the last time a show made me yell with sheer joy!
guessing it was Jake Skywalker throwing aside the lightsaber with the sloshing sea cow tit drink.
I wouldn't say that Egwene is on par with Ishy in that scene it seemed to me like she was barely keeping even part of that shield up against Ishy's attacks. Realistically, I don't think Egwene would have lasted much longer against those blows.
atleast she can do some thing, while rand has done fuck all for 2 seasons.
I wonder if there will only be 6 other Forsaken since there were 6 seals broken to release them. If so... We've heard of Sammael, Graendal and Moghedian... I think maybe we've heard Rahvin's name mentioned...not sure. And a mention of "the boys". So maybe the only other two would be Asmodean and Demandred
I mean... considering Rahvin is on the same power level as Ishy (Especially in terms of channeling) and Demandred is the best swordfighter and the best battle commander, those 2 at least kinda have to appear.
If that's going to be Moggy's persona in reality I really want to see her taking on the role of being a servant etc... hiding in the shadows, before switching back into scary mad mode. Damn Spider!
I'm not sure about Egwene holding off Ishy toe to toe, I like your idea that he's playing a long game again.
Okay… I love what they’re doing with her, but that hairs gotta go… give my girl her iconic bob 😭
@@Jrr592 I can imagine that's her AOL style and she'll change it to blend in and be inconspicuous in this age.
Ishy had just broken 6 seals. He was extremely drained.
when the writing is so bad that the blue anon fans of this series have to explain it away at every turn, phew.
@jonahdav9589 sorry you are such a sad anti fan. You find others to bother.
MATT BLOODY CAUTHON!!
Barney is a great actor but Donal is REALLY Mat.
Is Ishy coming back? Or will we see Moridin? I think this (sadly) might be the end of (the wonderful) Fares Fares as (creepy) Ishy
The dragon was just an illusion, probably wouldn't take a lot of power.
Egwene could shield against Ishy's attacks for a short time before she was failing (until supported by her friends), I would say that puts her still quite weaker than Ishy, but not simply one Ishy can power through without any effort. Just with time.