I held off the tears when Moiraine spoke to Lan. And even when Hopper flew off to the sky i managed. But for some reason when Mat blew the horn and said the thing the dam burst.
Mat kind of got emotionally beat up for the entire season. I think him blowing the horn was the strongest point of catharsis. Although Uno being a hero of the horn was also a big deal to me. The actor that plays him is a book reader and Uno fan. They soft killed him at the end of season 1 and then again in season 2. His character was around for a long time in the books...so I am glad he got a payout.
@@joeleek9976They really managed a decent job handling Mat after the behind-the-scenes shakeup from last season. Quite a few writers rooms would have just said fuck it, let's kill him off, under similar circumstances. I really dig how they found two powerful uses for Uno, considering that, while being a fan favorite, he didn't have much narrative purpose in the books. And, this way, might even get to see him again in a really impactful manner. 😁
one of my favourite changes this episode was Dain Bornhald seeing Perrin kill his father. it sets up their future interactions and motivations so much better than in the books. in general i feel the villains are better overall in the show than in the books.
And the nice added touch that they met under friendly circumstances before having a conflict over essentially a *moral* issue, then fighting side-by-side briefly, before the axe swings that sealed their enmity.
@@reverseBLT yup. it really gives the whole "we could've been friends but the circumstances make it so that's impossible" feel. great choice for a pretty annoying character in the books.
I’m a show only person and my thought when Rand took out Turok and his boys made me think when Moiraine told him in 108 that when he had the adrenaline flowing through him, the power would be there. He had just seen Egwene being marched to the tower. He was full of emotion, and wanted to get to her, and these men were in his way. I think that channel was effortless.
You're definitely right about the *power* being there. Just keep it in the back of your head that the *complexity* of what he did was beyond him. That's all I'll say because I'm not a spoilery jerk. 😁S3's got some stuff in store...
@@Fabianationx123 Yup. Josha's definitely doing enough acting to convey when Rand's not himself, but still subtle enough to be missed. I think s3 is going to be a bit more overt with that, considering where we are now.
As a long time reader I can tell you that the sword fight between Rand and Turok in the books has always been a point of contention. In the books though, Rand had received a lot more sword training from Lan at that point and it still seemed out of place. The show hasn't really had any of that other than what he might have learned from the dude he was looking after where Logain is. It was already something not everyone accepted well in the books and it would've been even less believable if the show tried it. Randiana Jones was the right call for sure here and his surprised look after doing it fits very well with the books.
My personal headcanon on Moraine unmasking the bond is that she actually just dissolved it completely before going to the Eye, just in case she didn't make it. That's why she couldn't let him back in while she was "stilled" - you'd think you'd be able to do that without the power since they describe it in the books as imagining it wrapped up, not that they'd channeled to do it. So that lovely moment was her actually re-bonding Lan, not just unmasking the bond. Also I love watching everyone's reactions to Uno, because I, too, screamed my head off 😂
Been a while since I watched season 1 so couldn't remember exactly, but my guess was that their bond was entirely gone based off of how everyone was treating it. Other warders checking in on Lan to make sure he wasn't going to off himself, etc..
@@RDehuvyne Definitely what everyone thought, probably including Lan, at first. While I wonder about the logistics of it, I really appreciate just the beauty of the scene reestablishing their connection. How can any ordinary bond compare to what they have?
I agree that probably was what happened. Moiraine believed she would die at the Eye of the World because she was not the Dragon Reborn. She probably could not know if masking the bond would be enough to prevent Lan from becoming suicidal, so releasing it entirely was her way to protect him.
someone else noted the lighting change though in the room, so they theorized perhaps moghedien pulled Lanfear into a dream shard that she could fully control and trap Lanfear in, and she didn't actually "travel" just shifted the dream. I guess we'll see if it's Travelling in the future :).
I have a feeling next season might follow book plot points a bit more with the Aiel though, changing anything there I think changes too much@@reverseBLT
@@Yawgrimas Agreed. The events with them *mostly* need to play out the same way, with a few spots for deviation. There are opportunities to expand on some events to incorporate what we've been hoping to see with flicker-flicker, for instance.
I rewatched the season over the last two days. In episode one in Perrin's letter to Egwene and Nyn he writes of his new found appreciation and understanding of shields. Great foretelling. When Uno/Gaidal gave that shield to Perrin I wondered if it meant that Perrin was a Hero of the Horn. The shield seemed to protect from Ishy's channeling, which reminded me of a certain trinket we've yet to see. Great reaction/review, thank you.
Glad you liked it! I'm not sure I remember what trinket the shield may be replacing, but I'll keep an eye open for any additional foreshadowing/confirmation!
Thanks for the kind words! I hate it when people put on an act for the camera (except for sketches where it's *supposed* to be fake). It makes me happy to know being just my real self resonates with some folks. As for the intelligent analysis and guesses, I just get lucky sometimes. LOL
Cougar Lanfear still rocking it. Excellent intro for the Spider as well. Mildly sad the Ingtar twist was left out but I thought he should probably be dead based on the end of last season. Most of my problems now are simply execution and character motivation issues. Glad to finally see Matt being treated a bit better. Now that they have shown how powerful working together is I fully expect them to be broken up and scattered to the winds again.
I think Ingtar will be revisited, worked into Perrin's arc, especially if Layla really was a DF. Mat's beginning the upward trend of his arc now, finally leaving behind the part of his story I think most readers kinda forget because it wasn't particularly uplifting or even all that interesting for a while. And yup. LOL Gotta hurt the darlings.
it is possible that was filmed but ended up under the knife due to the episode time limit same as many other clips ... I've seen some clips that were deleted like Moirane with Loial planning the trip through the ways in season one that I wish they kept because it would have made so much more sense to new viewers what was going on and was Loial coming with them ... or a deleted clip of Padan Fain opening the Ways with a leaf ...
@@BerndrYeah, it's a shame when time limits force edits such as these, because they have knock-on effects. On the plus side, material exists for a director's cut. 😁
I am really looking forward to this version of Moggy. First off I have seen this actress before and she's quite good. Second, the book version was much more along the lines of an arrogant coward. This take on her is much more interesting. I really loved how she literally wired the whole room to trap Lanfear. Notice the lighting difference when she left? The whole room was webbed. Also not sure if you caught it in the cold open but we got confirmation of what most readers knew from the figurine with the scarred face, they named Sammael
@@richardlohne8595 If so, that would explain why no subtitles. They probably expected the readers to know, and it's a fun setup for the show-onlys. I'm just a dunce failing to connect the dots on this one. LOL
@@reverseBLTit's because you're only through book 5. You will be made aware of that particular line very quickly in book 6. It's not Mat's only battle call he uses in the books but I'm not sure how far the show will delve into that part of Mat. Didn't he shout something in S1? Damn, I'm going to have go back and look.
Ah, so I'm slightly less of a dunce. LOL I think he did yell something in OT in s1, but I can't remember where or what the circumstances were. I'm certain he has at least one random moment where he speaks OT without knowing he had or what he had said in book one, though.
Goosebumps!! From the scene with Morraine and Lan , to mat and his' i remember' , the whole episode was amazing ! Am glad he didnt finght Turok would hve made a mockery of being a blademaster, as people have pointed out he's no wherenear ready. Rafe has confirmed Uno is Cain in this telling and am loving it! I think Egwene struggling against Ishy is going to highlight what a certain someone else can do when actually fighting a spider!
I've read through The Fires of Heaven. I have snippets of knowledge from later books because of casual spoilers online and because I sometimes forget that Wiki Walks are dangerous. 😅
@@reverseBLT you could read New Spring at any point after book 5 with minimal spoilage really but optimally you should wait till after 7 imo. Besides you don't want to delay reading 6 anyway. As I think I said before, you should have all your streaming stuff set up and ready to go when you're close to finishing book 6 then jumping on camera right after. Getting to see your raw reaction to the ending of that book is definitely something I would wanna see. Even if it's just you staring at the camera with tears running down your face with a smile and a look of wonder lol I'll take it
As you say there is a LOT of changes from source in this episode but they are not without purpose. Personally really enjoyed it. Like you i did enjoy the indiana jones moment as well although i understand why some would be annoyed. Have to say i am loving all the forsaken in this show. Lanfear has been great and loved the introduction to moggy as well.
@@tw7998Glad to hear it! I hope you'll like my reactions to some other things, too! I can't wait to see how the stakes get raised for s3, especially with the world's craziest banker on the loose! 😂
@@reverseBLT I am working my way through the mandalorian but then will start on andor and will definitely start following the reactions:). And yup roll on S3 I can't wait
Good catch on Rand holding the sword by the blade for a split second when he first talks to Egwene. I have watched the episode many times and totally missed that!
Without Rosamund Pike's heavy involvement in this show, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be quite as blessed with the caliber of actors (female, especially)that we get here. If you don't really follow acting , you may not realize how stacked the supporting cast of this series is.
I tend to be the guy who recognizes people but can't remember where from. LOL But I know acting, at least, and this cast has been very impressive, nearly top to bottom. Even the minor players tend to give excellent performances.
Now I know why the show killed Uno early on. They need him when Mat blows the Horn. They definitely merged Uno and Gaidal Cain. After he gave his shield to Perrin, he drew a second sword.
@@reverseBLT I didn't think of that. So it seems there's already a foreshadowing of Uno returning as a Hero of the Horn since episode 3. People were so busy being upset at Uno's death that we didn't realize that he died by a golden horn. At least, I haven't heard or read any theory about that back then.
I knew he was going to die immediately upon seeing the horn on Suroth's palanquin, but I didn't think about the Horn of Valere connection before the fact, as much as I wish I could gloat over that. Though I am the only one I know of pointing out the connection *after* the fact, so I'll gloat a tiny bit. 😄
Rather than a different turning of the Wheel, I like to call this show a mirror world - "The Pattern has infinite variation, and every variation that can be, will be."
im a show only viewer so thank you for your commitment to no spoilers :) i thought an interesting connection between Lan and Moiraine, and their mutual re establishment of the bond can be mirrored as a foil in the "bond" the sul'dam and damane share that makes them powerful together ie "the fire" they set to the tree in previous episodes, and how Egwene comes into her power through her resistance.. such a great analysis, and really interesting places they are taking the show
I think you're right. There are a lot of interesting parallels to draw between the Aes Sedai and their bonds, with each other and their warders, and the sul'dam/damane dynamic. I hope they continue to explore stuff like that, along with the parallels the other groups have with the Aes Sedai and one another. Most of these organizations are trying to do *good*, and firmly believe their way and any restrictions they impose are vital to serving the Light and fighting the Shadow, yet each does a fair bit of bad while trying to serve good. And thank you for the compliments! 😄
Moghedien's first introduction and release in a Seanchan fortress in Falme ironically foreshadows her fate. Also, Moghedien is shown to have an inferiority complex in the last scene, which might be the show's reason for her joining the Dark One.
"strong enoungh to break the shield:" If it is 6 or more women maintaining the shield (as was the case with the damane), a man (or anyone) cannot break it, regardless of strength.
It was always my impression that when the books mention 6 women they meant 6 in a linked circle, and the ter'angreal collars used by the Seanchan prevent the damane from linking. I know there's some debate about the 6 linked vs unlinked though.
Knowing its coming, especially in the show, makes Hoppers death more crushing, because we have been spending more time with him in the show than in the books. And while it makes sense for Uno to be Gaidal Cain in the show, in a sense, Gaidal Cain might no exist in the show, because it would be odd for non-book readers if they suddenly begin to call Uno, Gaidal. So Uno would probably be Gaidal Cain in everything, but name. I also say i love the way the show showcases how Aviendha, Bain and Chiad interact with eachother, doing the Aiel speech and not let all of them use the common tongue. I think the Ingtar twist was left out of the show, because it ultimately didn't matter, because he turned back before his death anyways. Others seem to be bothered with not getting Rand vs Turak. I personally didn't since in the books, we have clearly see Rand getting trained in the act of swordfighting, while in the show he hasn't. So Rand using the one power, makes the most sense to me here anyways. Interesting Ishy has only broken six seals, which means 8 of them are out there, meaning 5 are not (Despite Ishy being dead, i still say 8 because we all know he is coming anyways). With Moggy and Lanfear in and Sammael and Graendal being namedropped, i think the Forsaken are Ishy/Moridin, Sammael/Demandred (Both are army commanders and swordfighters, so it makes sense to combine them), Rahvin/Be'lal and Asmodean. Then we have Lanfear/Mesaana, Moggy, Sermihage and Graendal. I mean... Aginor and Balthamal don't play a story anymore anyways, considering we already got the Eye of the World and that storyline went to Ishy. I feel like we have to get Asmodean, since he is connected to both Lanfear and Graendal story wise. Rahvin is needed to drive the plot forwards in Andor, which is probably gonna be the main setting in terms of countries and the same can be set for Illian with Sammael. Another interesting thing i noticed, that not many seem to pick is the moment Egwenes shield started to break, Perrin showed up with Uno's shield to block the attack. So i guess Uno's shield has magical abilities that it can reflect channeling.
Yup, I'd say it's a certainty there are only eight Forsaken in the show's Turning. Every reference we've gotten so far has numbered no more than eight. Probably Ishamael and Lanfear have had the most merged into them for the reasons you mentioned. I had thought we'd already seen Mesaana onscreen, but now I think we've just seen her victim. Not saying more because spoilers. LOL I think they *might* call Uno Gaidal Cain at some point just because the reincarnation aspect of existence is already decently established, so it wouldn't take much work to do, but it would be simpler just to keep him using Uno. Just confirm it with Birgitte through behavior. I think Ingtar's purpose will mainly be for Perrin's development, which is probably why they felt cutting the reveal wouldn't hurt the overall story too much. They will have to rework how Perrin finds out, though. I *love* the way they did the Turak "fight." I never liked the idea that Rand learned enough in half a year of training with Lan to beat a swordmaster. This made so much more sense, and made me LOL, to boot. I only worry that the show-onlys won't get the deeper significance of *how* Rand did that.
@@reverseBLT Did they ever call him Nomesta in the show (I honestly forgot).. if not... they might actually call him Uno Cain for that connection. I feel like season 2 so far has set up 3 possible plotpoints for season 3 (And i feel like Season 3 will put Mat slightly on the backburner in favor of Perrin of Rand, since i felt like season 2 was Mats in terms of the boys development). I won't go into said plotpoints for Rand though, due to possible spoilers.... but we have the Aiel plot and the Whitecloak plot for sure and i think a possible plotpoint for season 4 also has been hinted wtih a certain Shienaran when Rand revealed himself/got revealed as the Dragon Reborn.
@@nickdentoom1173 I think all the guys will get about equal development in s3 because a certain change of venue will enable two of them to be together most of the time and the plot for the other one is pretty well guaranteed to be in there. I support the Uno Cain thing, though, considering it's a different Turning, there's another way to do it without a name change at all, but won't say more. And yeah, no words were needed to convey the depth of the *revelation* someone received when Rand was revealed. Looking forward to how they handle that storyline.
@@reverseBLT The storyline for that character has actually become more problematic with that other character not being in the show anymore for that specific storyline, considering that the one character that isn't there anymore, was the only one who could keep the other one in check.
@@nickdentoom1173 Fair point. I assume that role will be merged with someone else. The question is *whom* . If I had to write it, probably it would be Perrin, because it could follow his arc decently well, in a lot of ways. Of course, they could also sidestep that by letting many of the developments in that storyline happen offscreen. It doesn't truly *have* to dovetail with the main story for a while.
There are Eight Forsaken in the show: Ishamael, Lanfear, Moghedien, Graendal, Sammael, Asmodean (guitar statue), Semirhage (neck collar statue), and Demandred (Important). I believe the story in Season 3 will focus on Rand's training to be the Dragon Reborn and the threat of the Black Ajah (built up in Season 2) in the White Tower. It is safe to say Nynaeve and Elayne will tell Moraine what they know and start their Black Ajah investigations on Liandrin. Since Moghedien is likely the main antagonist in place of Ishamael in Season 3, I believe she will have a part in leading the Black Ajah conspiracy (Ishamael probably gave Moghedien info on them and their members).
I still want Jack Black to be Asmodean. LOL I think Semirhage was merged into Lanfear, though, leaving Mesaana as the last Forsaken. I think we've already seen her actor, if not technically *her* . 😉
@@reverseBLT I really want to see Asmodean on screen because he joined the Dark One for hilarious reasons. Loved how the Forsaken are treated as serious threats.
@@ryankwon8785 Do me a solid and put a spoiler warning ahead of that last bit about Asmodean. Thanks! 😁 But yeah, I would actually love to see some of the gleeman Rand stuff incorporated with Asmodean. Not necessarily traveling around, although...
Fun video! Have fun getting deeper in the books. One comment about Rand breaking the shield. While it’s possible to break a shield, there’s a thing in the books where a circle of 13 can shield anyone. Even Rand couldn’t break out from 13 average channelers. I think the show’s magic number is 8 instead of thirteen, which is how many damane they had in the boat. So, he could have broken out of the 1 Aes Sedai shields from the previous episodes if he knew more, but I don’t think he could break that one. That’s my guess anyway.
Yeah, I had forgotten all about the established fact that a certain, relatively small number of channelers basically render any amount of power moot. Not sure what the magic number is in the show, but it would make sense for it to continue to mirror the number of Forsaken.
If this - as Rafe said before - was really a different turning of the wheel, would this be a previous turning, or a future one? Because if it were the future, then a certain sadistic Forsaken (and a couple of others iirc) shouldn't show up. iykyk
Possible lore spoilers for the whole series... If you are implying that balefire can be used to permanently destroy souls so that they are not reborn, RJ himself reportedly said "If someone is balefired, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they CAN be spun back out into the Wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the eternal death of the soul." It's a common misconception, even Brandon Sanderson believed balefire = eternal death of the soul, before Team Jordan corrected him as he was taking over writing the series.
I appreciate your positivity about the show. I've read the books, mostly as a Brandon Sanderson fan (I started the first book twice back in the 90s and just couldn't get into it). I enjoyed the overall story, but there are many flaws in the books, and I feel like the show is doing a great job translating this story into a very different format, capturing the essence of it without the annoying parts.
Thanks for the compliment! It's funny, because I was definitely a bit hard on the show in the first few eps of season one, but I think it leveled up pretty well, as it ran, despite the noticeable hiccups from Covid and a major cast member leaving, at the end. I'm not quite halfway through the books, but I've been enjoying them a lot, though they too have some jank. 😄They've also been leveling up as I go. I'm curious how I'll feel when I get to the supposed Slog, though.
I always love your WoT reactions! Thank you for sharing them with us. This episode was such a great way to end the season, and the hype for season 3 is through the roof for me. If you get back to reading the books soon, I think we all would enjoy hearing your thoughts/feelings about them as you progress. You've proven to be pretty insightful about the themes and messages you've identified so far in the books, which has enhanced the quality of your reactions to the show as a side benefit. Anyway, let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time!
We're about to finish Eye of the World in the book club, then on to The Great Hunt. I'll probably reread 3-5 on my own, after that, then continue with the rest of the series. I'm still a bit nervous about doing a scripted video, but who knows? Anyway, thanks for all the kind words!
Awesome episode review as always. You are one of my favorites .Always look forward to your commentary. I even got emotional with you. Looking forward to next season.
i have weird feelings toward the rand end. because as far as the show at the moment goes and some much later development its very cool to see him fully held up and supported by his friends. But i feel a huge part of getting to his biggest developments is him not seeing or noticing these things earlier on and feeling isolated.
I get where you're coming from. I think the idea is to condense the "I'm all alone in this" part of Rand's development to the part of his arc where he's still running away from being the Dragon. It keeps that attitude from feeling like it's going on long enough to begin straining the audience's sympathy for him, and it also adds to the stakes of the Madness, which I think the next part of the arc will begin to lean very heavily into.
I have read the series several times, and I love this turning of the Wheel. I don't get the hate. I decided before release that I would temper my expectations. Understanding the limitations a television adaptation faces has freed me to enjoy this for what it is.
@@scottlyons33 Willingness to accept change is definitely a big part of enjoying adaptations. I'm glad you were able to do that. Fortunately, more and more people are finding that capacity, as the series continues.
There certainly were some issues with season 1, but they are more than making up for it this season. What people need to get though is that this is based on the books, not an exact adaptation. Hadn't heard the term Bookcloaks until just now but it is such a fitting description and had to do a double take when I heard it and pause to give it a good chuckle.
I really appreciate what you said about Renna, everyone else has been cheering over her death, but I think she honestly deserved a little pity She was like a brainwashed member of a cult, and Xelia's portrayal of her death was so desperate and scared, I did feel sorry for her.
Also, the one thing I really wish was different in this episode, I wish Nynaeve had helped Egwene channel the shield for Ishamael, I think it would have been more logical considering his power level, and it would have given Nynaeve a bit more to do.
I think they were going with a shell-shocked thing with Nynaeve, because of being bonded through the a'dam with someone at the moment of her death. If so, it should get touched on next season, because it would be a logical new hurdle for her to overcome.
It can be hard to have sympathy for the devil, so to speak. Renna was awful, but she was *made* awful, and that deserves consideration. A different life would have made a different woman. Such a shame. Glad to know I'm not alone in having some compassion for her and the rest who've been so warped by Seanchan culture.
@@jonahdav9589 It made perfect sense, in the moment, and will be useful for the character's growth, going forward. And Egg isn't OP. She's exactly what she was in the books: an extremely powerful channeler who's still way outclassed by two of her closest friends and the Forsaken.
Out of interest, since you said you have been reading the books but not finished them, how far along are you? Also, i was right there with you thinking we were gna get some flicker flicker action. Ah well. Maybe in s3. It's gna be a lot of Three Fold Land stuff after all. We might get the doorways there.
I'm holding off continuing with book six because we're doing a reread through at least book two in the channel's Discord, right now. After we're done with that, I'll continue on my own. Should be done with the books well before s3 premieres. Speaking of, yeah, I think some version of flicker-flicker will happen in s3. Got the columns to do, after all. And Finn-ishing School will be in session; I'm sure of it!
I just used a wide rubber band. It worked surprisingly well. The only thing I wish I could have done was found one that looked like gold or figured out how to make that one look like it. Thanks for letting me know it worked well on camera!
So, have you started up book 6 yet? Another option you could do for the end of book 6 is what I saw Nerdy Nightly do. They were doing a weekly book club thing reading like a dozen chapters a week and talking about what they read but their followers got them to read chapter 54, grab the audio book, play chapter 55 Dumai's Wells and treat it like a regular reaction video. It runs just short of an hour and you could probably edit it to half that muting and unmuting it to keep it in compliance. Just a thought 😉
Interesting idea. In the channel's book club, we've had to push back the conclusion of Eye of the World several times due to scheduling conflicts and illness. I'm worried the ongoing neck pain might postpone it again, but, yeah, I'm still a little ways from book six. 😅
Every place in the Books, where it is 13, in the show so far its 8. 8 Aes Sedai went after Logain, 8 Forsaken, 8 Damane on the ship to hold Rand so I don't think Rand could have got out of the Shielding by himself. There are a couple of other places where it is 13, and I suspect it is 8 in the show, but spoilers at this stage.
@@reverseBLTThis is actually my second time seeing your reactions. I generally watch non-reader reactions because they are generally more interesting and less depressing (not bookcloaky). However, you and I have the same reader reactions. You've understood that this is an adaptation. They will add as much as they can to be most like the books, but some thing can't stay for reasons of budget, covid/actor issues. They've done a great job recovering from the latter. I think they are on a great journey to continue the story of book 4. Book 3 stories not covered won't be missed terribly. The tangible results of the Stone of Tear will be incorporated somehow into the stories of S4 I think.
@philc2729 Thanks for coming back! 😁 I agree that the plots of book three and four can be rolled together without losing much. Even elements of book five. I'm debating with myself whether the Red Door will happen in s3 or 4. I know a lot of people have decided it won't happen because of Mo's arc in s2, but I think they're wrong. Oh, show-onlys, don't look that up, I beg you. It would be an *enormous* spoiler.
@philc2729 if you put asterisks around words, they get bolded. Unfortunately, I know no way to add proper spoiler tags on YT. I wish they would add that. My method has been to announce spoilers, then add around five or six empty lines or lines with just a random character so the spoiler content gets hidden by the cutoff limit. Then people have to click "Read More" to see the spoiler.
I suspect that poor lighting in the season one finale was done, at least in part, to try to hide, as much as possible, the heavy use of not necessarily the best CGI. Recall that the season one finale was heavily hobbled by Covid restrictions limiting the number of actors they could have. Making the best of a bad situation.
So when Renna says "If I die you'll die." it makes no sense. Just 5 minutes before this, Nynaeve's damane was shot in the neck with an arrow, and Nynaeve was fine.
Loving season 2 as a new turning and writing has now convinced me they can tell the story right even if it's not the same. No spoilers but just want to say twice and twice shall he be marked which means we have to have certain events in book 3 before the waste
Yup. Though not *necessarily* before the events in TFL, or at least not necessarily before *all* of those events. I have to reread book three to figure out how they could structure season three.
Couple of things that you might ot have picked up on 1. Lanfear made teh Dragon not Morraine, Morraine sent Fire, Lanfear added to it and turned it into the Dragon, you can see the second stream adding to it as it reaches the Tower. 2. Moghedian was in the room when Lanfear entered, you can see her in teh shadows when she looks from one set of three stones to the other, she's was setting teh trap and once Lanfear was in teh right place the light increases revealing her. And once she travels, the light goes brighter again back to normal levels. Rafe confirmed Uno is Gaidal Cain btw.
I definitely missed the first thing (and the second, but I assumed Moggy was there from the start, once they showed her). She's a sneaky little spider. I like what someone said about Moggy maybe pulling Lanfear into a dream shard. Yay! The tinfoil hat's powers of deduction come through for me yet again! #UnoCainConfirmed 😂
Ishamael saying that Rand turned Egwene into a murderer seems out of place because Egwene thinks that she killed Valda (the Questioner) so she already thinks she is a murderer so this wouldn't really change things in that way. SPOILER ALERT BOOK KNOWLEDGE: In the Books they left the Sul'dam with A'dam around their necks (and therefor the knowledge that Sul'dam were just very weak channelers, "Damane", and not something completely different), which created havoc in some Seanchan circles. Here both Sul'dam are no longer wearing them. I'm curieus how they will go forward with this in the show. BALEFIRE (if the term means nothing to you don't go anyfurther) If Rand used Balefire he might actually given Ishamael what he really longed for.
I think the distinction there is Valda was clear self-defense and defense of Perrin. Renna no longer posed a threat to Egwene, so killing her was a "true" murder. I'm looking forward to the show delving into the long-term psychological effects of that whole thing for Egg. I'm also curious to see how the change you mentioned in the spoiler section affects the Seanchan, or doesn't. As for B-F, I've decided it wasn't used there, though still possible Rand did something *based* on it. We didn't get any of the notable effects of B-F, and I just don't see them forgoing the huge stakes those effects bring to the story.
I have read all the books, so I won’t say anything specific, but I did want to share my own show theory regarding Ishy. So we see the stakes are higher with the forsaken in the show (ex Lanfear being immortal). I think that that may have been a specific “gift” given to her. Ishy would not have wanted or accepted that kind of gift because he wants to permanently die so immortal life would for sure not have been something he would want, nor would it be considered an incentive for him. Having said that, I DO NOT think Rand did what you think he did. I think we will get what we get in the books with Ishy. Book spoiler for book 3: I think Ishy’s body is dead dead like the end of book three and the rest of my theory is spoiler from A crown of swords so I will leave off there. Anyway, love your reactions and theories and look forward to more from you as you continue to read the books 😁
Thanks for the compliment and for the care not to spoil me! I think you're right, and I think it mirrors what happened with the Caemlyn DF in book one.
Been waiting for your review, RBLT! Got the notification and here I went! LOVED this episode! All 7 times that I've watched it and will watch again and again and again! lol Pacing was quick and clear. Hopper is such a good boy. Rand is still fighting the One Power even when he took out Turak and his men. You could see the surprised look on Rand's face when they all went down (except for Turak's Voice). *A Couple of Questions and POSSIBLE SPOILERS **_for the show_* 1) I wonder why Nynaeve couldn't channel? Was it because she was connected to her temp Damane when she took that arrow and it disrupted her ability to channel? That's what I'm guessing. 2) Damn! You made me weep with you during the Hopper scene, RBLT! lol I read elsewhere that Hopper's spirit may have gone into Perrin? Could that be what happened when Perrin's eyes turned gold at the same time our Hopper's spirit floated? And it makes it doubly sad to know that all Hopper ever wanted was to fly like an eagle and at death, his spirit was able to. 3) When Mat got his memories back, it appeared that Rand did, too. His words alluded to that when he told Ishamael that he would never follow the Dark One and, in a thousand lifetimes, never have. 4) What does the burned brand in Rand's hand mean for him? He's a Blademaster now? THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ANOTHER WONDERFUL AND FASCINATING REVIEW OF THE WOT!😃
Glad you enjoyed the episode and my reaction! I have a question for *you*. Do you *really* want me to answer questions two and four? 😁 As for question one, the same explanation you came up with hit me later, too. I think being in the sul'damane's (what I'm calling sul'dam who get leashed) head when she died did something to Nynaeve, like a kind of shell shock. As for question three, I think that was just Rand's deepening connection with his futurepast selves. When you rewatch the season (and even s1) pay close attention to Rand. There are a lot of moments when he's not entirely himself, is all I'll say.
@@reverseBLT I guess I don't. I'll wait for it all to unfold in the upcoming S3 and beyond. I was just babbling out loud and I was just still too emotional about Hopper's passing. It hits me directly in the feelz every time I see it. lol Thank you so much for yet another amazing review, RBLT. I can't wait for your future reviews of WoT!
@@CatharinaShields So glad you liked them. I'll say now's a good time to read the first two books, if you're thinking of getting into them and don't want to wait until the show's done.
SPOILERS Future Problems Established by this episode I see as the most problematic: Rand will now have no insight on how to cleanse the taint, as ishys fire staff never burned through him before fains dagger... The conflict of two evils in his wound is how he got the idea originally. Eaganin never introduced Bayle Domon to Turak as her property... like 13 different problems are caused by this. Grolm are never seen in the Flicker, and then Recognized again in Falme being used by the seanchan which sets up Rands know how with the portal stones in as much as alternate dimensions can be traversed by twisted creatures. Oh and lets not mention the HUGE story collapsing switch of Gaul to Aviendha and an early intro... I cant count the number of problems this causes. (Edit) I think the Taint Cleanse could be fixed by either Sammael or ISHY 2.0 in Tear, just have the wounding happen out of order.... What I fear is: They cop out, and say since Fains dagger passed through ishys illusion, Aridhols evil picked up some residual taint and thats how both evils got in the wound... and that would piss me off.
There definitely could be some issues because of the changes. That's why I say I reserve judgment on some things until I see how they pay them off, down the line. As you mentioned, one of the things you bring up can be solved by utilizing another character or something. There are even other ways to introduce certain concepts, and others might not have as much narrative utility as they seem. But we'll see. Also, do me a favor and put a spoiler warning on your comment with some lines of space, because that whole thing is just filled with them. LOL Thanks a bunch, bud!
Donal Finn is great as Mat, I was looking forward to watching him slowly level up in heroics as he tried his best to not be a hero. Not sure why the show spent all that character development coin so quickly.
Fair point. I think they're going to use hurting Rand at the end as a knockback moment to make him doubt not that he's a Hero, but that he's worthy of the title. My guess is they'll use his impact on *others* to build him to truly believing he's deserving.
Very very vague spoilers, not ruining anything past TFOH... I'm fairly certain we didn't see Rand use b---f---. If you look at Rand's actions as a combo of the endings of books 2&3, it makes sense that there would be some both some stabbing and some fire weave burning involved. I think we saw the body crumble to ash because the show has shown us that the Dark One can bring bodies back immediately even when pretty intensely mutilated. I'm guessing we're supposed to assume Rand burnt Ishy inside out with his white hot blade, such that this immediate resurrection thing couldn't be used. If so, that would be a nice continuation of what we saw before with Rand incinerating that Fade at Selene's cabin.
Yeah, I agree it isn't b-f because I expect they'll keep the consequences intact for using it, but I wonder if it's somehow related, especially considering I think Rand tapped into the same *wisdom* that helped him Indiana Jones Turak earlier. A fun little mystery to ponder during the Longing between seasons.
@@reverseBLTSomething I have mentioned in various outlets for a while is...what happened to the angreal Moiraine had in S1? I think she may still have it. Oh and btw, did you notice what was still sitting there on the ground behind them on the tower even after the Heroes left? Was it a set mistake or is going to be a thing that replaces another thing? We shall see.
@@Finnssssss 😯I had completely forgotten about that angreal. I think I had assumed it sort of got "used up" in the confrontation, but I guess that shouldn't be possible. Then again, cuendillar also isn't supposed to break, so... Are you talking about the shield Uno Cain gave Perrin?
Wasn't the much larger fire weave from Moiraine's earlier channeling to sink the ships? To me it looked like it came from the ship wrecks and joined the new channeling half way up the tower. And that the second weave gave it the shape of a huge fire dragon.
You know the ironic part of the tower sequence? Spoilers for the books in general ahead: RJ himself confirmed Rand has turned to the Shadow before, and those Ages ended in stalemates, so Rand is objectively wrong about his certainty.
I threw caution to the wind and finally looked at your comment. Pretty cool bit of information, and it makes sense, though I would have expected a different result.
@@reverseBLT The pattern is balance. My guess? Demandred went back to the Light in those Ages JUST to spite Rand/Lews. It's in character for him to have such hatred he would do something like that.
I haven't read the books. My favorite parts of the episode were: 1) Mat. He's clever and he's funny, and I like the actor. 2) Lanfear lives! And we got to see her scared shitless, which was a fun new look for her. I also wondered why there was all the cheering in the streets. With everything the Falm folks have been going through -- conquered by one group of sadistic creeps and then attacked by another group of sadistic creeps -- that seemed off.
To the average people, Whitecloaks are a somewhat holier-than-thou group who get involved with nobles and oppose Aes Sedai. A slightly more informed person will know that they claim to fight for the Light (and I think the best ones do - Geoffram Bornhald, for example). In Falme, they were actively supporting and recruiting the locals against weird invaders. No wonder the citizens of Falme were cheering for the defeat of the Seanchan.
As much as I liked Barney's performance, I can't help but feel we received a blessing in disguise, when he left the show. Donal just *is* Mat, and I can't imagine anyone else in the role now. I can't wait for you to see some of the developments in store for him. Next season should be *nuts*. Moghedien's entrance was done so well. Lanfear is *way* stronger, but Moggy laid such a careful trap that Lanfear knew she was completely at her mercy. And the others are free too! One of my favorite details in the scene was how Lanfear looked around as subtly as she could to try and see if any of the others were also there, to see just how screwed she was. It made sense that a lot of them *would* cheer the proclamation of the Dragon Reborn, but not that *all* of them would. The prophecies, as Mo and some others have pointed out, say the Dragon Reborn will either save the world or break it again, so his return is feared by average people as much as it's hoped for.
(A show only person here) I might have it wrong but what I thought the reason for cheering was the prophecy that the Dragon would come help the people of Falme in their time of need (not word by word, just what it meant). So that big flashy proclamation with the fire dragon banner, and then the defeat of the Seanchan, probably lifted up people's spirits.
@@goldielocks9092 True, Falme's version does talk about the Dragon coming during their hour of need, but I would still expect some of them to be fearful.
I've been processing this for a few days now, and I've decided the way they re-wrote Mat's arc due to the covid/Barny mess actually improved his book arc. I will mourn the loss of the finn from the show if that's the result of this change, but they created a whole arc of Mat really doubting if he was good worrying that he was only destined to hurt those he loves only to then hit him in the face that he's a hero of the horn. What a terrific redemption arc. It really worked for me. The heroes themselves seemed a little sloppy, I was looking for a couple specifically that didn't seem to be in the lineup, but I hope that we get Birgitte.
Birgitte was there, I'm pretty sure. She looked a little different from how I imagined her, but she was there. My main nit to pick with that scene was I wanted to see *more* Heroes. I know there shouldn't be a ton in that scene, but it still felt too small a group. I agree the lemonade they managed to make from the lemons of Barney's exit improved this part of Mat's arc. I still think we're getting Finn-ishing School, though. It represents some good narrative opportunities and including it keeps Mat having stuff to do.
@@reverseBLT Sorry, I´am overhelmed! The dead from hopper is for me the saddest in the books. The same in the show ... until now. I was weeping, too! Greets from Germany
Loving the show!! Spoilers- ish. and the thing that we can’t really talk about… I think it will be interesting for people to see … “things”come back, in a different way than they’ve already seen in the show. And even if these things don’t, it could still be cool for the story. I’m down for it lol.
@@reverseBLT nice lol. Indeed. I just finished the books btw and now reading New Spring. I am loving it so far, and it really fills in some of the characters. Let us know when you’ve read that one so we can discuss!! :p
I’m fine with the Turok situation (Rand didn’t have a training arc so that fight would have had no impact or made any sense if Rand won) but the I don’t think they should have showed the dragon at the end, they should have projected the fight in the sky like in the book. In the book, nobody really knows what a dragon is. They know Rand IS the Dragon but not that it’s also a flying lizard. It’s not until later that old images of traditional Chinese dragons pop up that up and people assume that’s what a dragon is. I think showing a flaming dragon at the end takes away from that little bit of world building.
I guess we can assume that people *do* still know what dragons are, this Turning. I only wanted the fight in the sky if they 100 percent could make it not cheesy *at all* . I kept thinking of how to do it to avoid any feelings of Power Rangers battles, and I just couldn't, so I'm actually glad it was left out. That scene's cheese level could have gutted the growing interest and killed the show instantly.
I doubt the sword attack was Balefire related. More likely, what he saw has something to do with being Forsaken. SPOILER WARNING! He is yet to be reincarnated as Moridin, so his soul is currently in the care of the Dark One, the Lord of Nothing.
Probably it wasn't. Just where my mind went at first. Also, do me a favor and spoiler warning the Mori bit. I'd rather the show-onlys get surprised by that development. Thanks!
They rebounded! Apparently his how what bonding actually looks like! Alanna was right when she said, "Moiraine took your Bond, it wasn't ripped out from you." I thought she just didn't know. Also that Lan just goes with her explanation and doesn't correct her as he doesn't want to admit she is stilled. If Moiraine had said something like "The Bond is gone" , leaving Alanna to assume that Moiraine went with her plan, after that conversation in Tower in S 1, where she says she found a way to release The Bond. But she actually told the truth. Apparently at some point to him too. In the Bonding scene, she says "Do you really want it back?". She is not talking about unmasking, she is talking about giving it back to him. His response: "I never asked for my Bound to be released, nor will I". They said it twice, we just went with our preconceptions about what happened and thought there was something else. I am starting to question my ability to listen and comprehend what I hear... And it's not like I watched this scene just once... I mean... this was pure gold! And not just that. I guess I like to cry on movies... And this episode provided the material for crying. But in the good way! The music was amazing! People don't say that enough. I loved it.
Don't beat yourself up. The wording is easy to interpret multiple ways. I think nearly all of us thought Mo was just talking about masking the bond. One of my favorite things about fandom is that we can sorta crowdsource our theorizing and analysis to refine our understanding of the things we love! And yes, they do a very good job wringing emotion from us. The scripts like to go straight for our hearts, and the solid acting and amazing score finish us off. And the best part is shows tend to tighten up more and more as they progress, so s3 should be even better!
The fact that everybody who is positive about the show makes the exact same "another turning of the wheel" argument is sort of the foundation of the dispute. Basically, if you're happy with an ENTIRELY new story that resembles WoT... great! I'll always be happy the show was made, happy it created so many more WoT fans AND allowed none readers to enjoy SOME of the story. Just don't claim that people who want an actual adaptation are wrong or bitter. (which is the CLEAR implication made by show stans :P) It's literally just wanting different things. You got something you are okay with, and you ignore the initial promise (want a burger? Here's a pizza instead! Some people will happily eat and enjoy the pizza. Some people want the damn burger) Once you admit that you simply have different expectations it defuses a LOT of the argument. Some people want an adaptation. You just want more WoT however it comes. Those two things are not the same. And when you invoke "just another turning bro" that is not an argument, it's a concession. It's admitting that you aren't looking for the same thing. Simple. Also, there are HUGE inconsistencies WITHIN the show... but it's always handwaved or ignored. It was covid. Or not enough episodes. Or the male actors are too shit to be given bigger roles (that one shocked me tbh. I think Daniel Heady has deserved better, Barney was THE standout in season 1 and Donal seems to be doing great. Josha is ALSO fantastic, even with the teen melodrama nonsense of S1. So why exactly have the boys been neglected as badly as they have?) It's okay to enjoy the show and acknowledge that the writers CONSISTENTLY make mistakes. They retconned a LOT of stuff they did in S1. When you can't write two seasons of TV with EXTREMELY established source material and a rabid fandom of experts to draw from... I think that is a competence issue. And I see nitpicking from "book fans" about things in the books... so apparently it's appropriate to hold the author to a higher standard for his original works that should conform with that readers PERSONAL idea of what is appropriate... than it is for other book fans to want an adaptation that doesn't change stuff. (Rand beat a swordsmaster in TGH after a year of constant practice with the sword AND LTT slow emerging into his subconscious after channelling the eye of the world? "that's such a cop out! Unearned!" To me, that kind of nitpicking is the toxic kind, bc it ignores a LOT of established elements to just declare something impossible... despite it not actually being impossible and RJ quite clearly writing that Rand's victory was SORT OF a fluke regardless, even with all his preparation and connection to LTT. Rand's focus on the sword, the forms Lan teaches him, and void and the flame his father teaches him... it's ALL foundational to his development. It's ALSO some of the earliest indication of his growing madness) Just make it all make sense. If it's okay for fans to say RJ was wrong to do something, why is it TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE for fans to say Rafe did stuff wrong? Why does criticism for the show become SO contentious, when the fandom has argued minutia for blood decades? The show has done well with the villains. It is a huge improvement from season one. But goodness me it bothers me when I see uncritical analysis with clear contempt for more critical viewers. People wanting to have the thing you enjoy be even better aren't actually attacking you or destroying what you like. They want it to be even better! How is that a bad or malicious thing? I'll say it again: I think people like the performances, bc the cast has done well. This leads to an assumption that the material they are working with must be great. Or the set pieces being spectacular. I'm not a magpie, so it really does take more than something shiny to impress :P If we MUST separate the show from the source material to "give it a chance" why can't the more uncritical "separate their enjoyment from the show" to appreciate some criticism!
I would appreciate it if you didn't lump your frustrations with some other unknown reactors and/or enjoyers of the show in with my reactions. The only way to assume I'm uncritical of the show is not to pay any real attention to my statements during the episodes and especially in the post-show segments. Just as an example, I specifically call out the inconsistency with the dagger between this finale and the s1 finale. Bookcloaks don't get contempt because they want a more faithful adaptation. They get contempt because of what their often hysterical complaints reveal about what they think makes for a "more faithful" adaptation. Complaints about skin tone, even when the actors *are* consistent with the book descriptions. Complaints about characters who shouldn't yet be all that badass not yet being all that badass. Complaints about the absence or early exit or merging with more important characters of characters who don't really have any actual *narrative* importance. The inability to even, for a second, consider the purpose of a change because of pedantic focus on the exact way something happened in the books. And my absolute favorite complaint that always makes my eyes roll: some version or other of "the guys are being cucked by the strong feeeemales." Adaptation demands larger changes the larger the difference between media. A book to a show or movie is going to need way more rejiggering than a cartoon to live-action, for instance. We can't utilize things that happen purely inside someone's head in a book nearly as well on screen, for instance, which makes a lot of the flame and void and *early* encroachment of LTT into Rand problematic. Sure, the show could still attempt it, but I've seen enough tries at that to know it *likely* would come off about as cheesy and/or pacing-killing as the battle in the sky would have. To say this is another Turning isn't a copout or a concession. It's understanding the clear text of the show. From the very first episode's opening monologue from Moiraine, the writers made it blatant they were basing their adaptational changes partially in the canonically cyclical nature of the Wheel's iterations. So many things have been directly pointed out *in the show* to hammer that point home. This isn't meant to be the exact same plot because it *isn't* the same Turning. They would have had to make the same changes anyway, because eight seasons with eight episodes each wouldn't allow for the same plotting with all the same characters and locations, but they chose to lean into it with the in-universe setup they had to allow for changes. It's also not a copout to accept those unplanned changes that were forced upon the production by Covid. I (and most other reactors/reviewers I've seen who aren't down on the show) don't make concessions for bad editing and FX choices, but allowing for the fact that entire set pieces had to be scrapped and reworked because of Covid, or that Mat's storyline had to be massively reworked because of Barney's departure is simply acknowledging reality. As I did with Game of Thrones, I will continue to look at every change with an eye to trying to figure out its purpose, and for those things where the purpose isn't immediately clear, I will await payoff before casting judgment. It's entirely possible this series will go off the rails the way GoT did, but, at this point, I don't have much fear of that. And, in the meantime, I will continue to call out bad production elements when I notice them, poor choices once it's clear they were poor, and illogical inconsistencies such as the dagger, which Rafe definitely needs to give an explanation for. But I'm not going to jump to conclusions that a given change is due to laziness or disliking the source material or not knowing what they're doing, just to appear more critical to others. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
So, you get to be self righteous, pick whatever you wish to complain about or allow complaints about AND show open contempt for people who disagree, but the fact other people do the same is why it's okay for you to do it. Gotcha. And the boys archs HAVE suffered. Denying that is just straight up lying. For no reason. You can say it's okay, and that is a matter of opinion (I LIKE female centred stories. I grew up on Buffy and Xena FFS) but to just DENY it? Why? This isn't some conspiracy theory, it's what Rafe explicitly stated as part of his mission plan... So it just IS a thing. If you disagree on that, please explain the boys character archs to me from the show. What have they done? How have the developed? What have the accomplished? We've had two season finale's in a row where Egwene is the entire focus (and there are inconsistencies in that too) It's hardly subtle... And I love Egwene! I just don't see why she needs all of her OWN badass moments, and then a bunch of other characters (Egwene healing Nynaeve in S1? It's literally her main weakness as an Aes Sedai. Woman can barely heal a bruise. Captured by Whitecloaks? She's not rescued by icky men or even by Nynaeve. She pulls herself up by her bootstraps!) Basically, your entire position boils down to "it's okay when I do it, or if I agree with it... but it's NOT okay for people I disagree with to do it" You're perfectly okay with liking posts on people criticising the books for things they didn't like or felt were unearned, but you describe people as "bookcloaks" (and you are FULLY fucking aware of the implications there) for suggesting this is a consistent problem within the show. Unearned moments. Rand being competent with a sword after a year of practice and the ghost of the most competent warrior of the Age of Legends in his mind is "unearned" but Rand channelling multiple weaves to massacre a small army apropos of nothing. Totally cool! (and honestly, I don't think it's that bad. But it is not BETTER) Also, the whole "it wouldn't translate well for the screen so therefore it should be entirely removed and never mentioned" is just... not a great argument. I'll say again, if you welcome ONLY criticism that you personally agree with, but attack the character of people whose criticisms you don't agree with... I'd suggest that is a you problem. Perhaps you can be a "Showfriend" @@reverseBLT
@@DmGray It's about focus. The early part of Rand's arc is about his reluctance to accept that he is the Dragon, with all that entails. The show is focusing on that, which is why they had him run away (which he also does in the books) and why they did the little mini-arc about standing up to face things on his feet. That wasn't about facing evil. It was about facing *destiny*, accepting his role, as Lan put it, to protect the world, not just his friends. As for the additional training Rand received, the only bit of it that would help him *win* against an actual, experienced blademaster, is the LTT skills and the extra time spent in alts. Tell me, how would you convey all that on-screen in *this* part of the story, without taking away from the thematic elements most important about this part of Rand's journey, and without taking away a ton of room for any other character's development? Egg healing Nynaeve is something I chalk up to desperation. It's not like we never get examples of characters doing crazy stuff with the OP without really knowing how they did it, usually as a one-off. Doesn't break the character, and didn't seem particularly badass, either. And, once again, different Turning (which I know you hate, but whatever; it is literally what it is) means not all the exact same weaknesses. Nynaeve remains the Healing powerhouse, but it doesn't mean Egwene has to be incompetent at it, this time around. We all have cutoffs for what we consider legitimate criticism. Criticize a story for inconsistency, failing to develop themes or characters, betraying character traits established in the narrative without cause, etc. Criticize a production for poor execution of elements within their control. Criticize actors for bad choices. All fine. But yeah, "criticizing" something simply for not scratching your particular itch isn't what I consider legitimate. It's still perfectly fine to say you don't like it, but it seems a stretch to try and back that subjective distaste with attempts at objectively demonstrating something's a bad adaptation. An adaptation is successful if it translates the *story* to a different medium, not the plot, and the show's still doing that.
I strongly disagree with your last sentence, even though the rest was a much better argument. I only raised the (lack of) swordfight bc I saw it in your comments from somebody saying this was a complaint they had in the books. Despite there CLEARLY being an explanation IN the books. They suggested that change was an improvement. I disagree. It might be NECESSARY for the medium (or at least with the prior choices in writing, painting themselves into a corner) but it's not BETTER. If people just say "rule of cool" and move on, I'm less disagreeable. It's people who make dumb, inconsistent or convenient arguments that bother me. And "Showfriends" do that all too often. Today somebody's argument featured the line "Rafe is fixing RJs misogyny" and THAT is the crap that us "bookcloaks" have to deal with. Constantly. I'll also point out that while the turning of the wheel is infinite, it's fairly directly stated that each turn is different. As in the souls are the same, but the body's they inhabit are not. So, not the same names. Consider also that several characters are literally seared permanently from the pattern by balefire, and RJ leaves to mystery what that actually does (though fairly well implying that it is not actually annihilation) So, the "another turning" has ALWAYS been more a playful excuse rather than an ACTUAL argument with any in world merit (it has no in world merit :P It's JUST a fun rhetorical device) As an ADAPTATION is has ALREADY failed SO BADLY that they abandoned the term themselves. It's now "inspired by" Think of it more like the Resident Evil movies (which I enjoyed btw, but I know fans of the games who hate them bc they're NOTHING to do with the games... to which my answer was always "obviously" not "it's just another turning of the zombies bro" or "adaptation requires changing everything!") Either the show is separate and different (a stronger argument, but frustrating for anyone seeking an actual adaptation) OR it an adaptation... in which case there are FAR fewer excuses for all of the changes (and if you buy "the script had to change bc Barney left" I have a bridge to sell you. If they couldn't within a single episode get Matt to where they wanted him with Donal... they're incompetent. They could have just PUT him there and not talked about it. Like all the other stuff they ignored :P) And also the whole "where would they find the time?!" argument will ALWAYS fall flat considering how slow the start of the season was. They waste a LOT of time on plots and characters that go nowhere, but devoting SOME time to the series protagonist would be... bad? Take away from other people? So, giving RAND some screen time and character development would "take away" from others... but you argue that NOTHING has been "taken from the boys" due to the focus on the girls archs? Liandin had more character development than ANY of the boys... (actress did an amazing job too. I don't even hate it as a creative choice. But again: accept reality. If giving screen time to character development takes it from others... you've just made the "cucked" argument you mentioned earlier. The boys have been cucked by female characters, by your OWN definition of how that works :P) The alternative is you could just admit... Rafe has kinda been doing Rand dirty. To the point of having a character SPECIFICALLY declare that it would be easier if the Dragon were a girl (cut to Egwene) so the show runners are self aware on this ;) @@reverseBLT
@@DmGrayLeveling up in ability isn't character development. It's skill development. Rand turning from reluctance to accepting fully what he is and what it means for his life, going forward, is character development. If Rule of Cool were the prevailing philosophy under which the show was working, it would have started with EotW's prologue and included fire swords already. Probably jumped straight ahead to balefire. I see the Wheel as inevitably churning near-identical people and scenarios back out, given enough iterations. While I know it wasn't stated outright, it seems to function like a procedural generation program with specific parameters for setting and story, making it inevitable there would be repeats. That's a change in function that doesn't break anything, unless you put rule minutiae above storytelling. And it's undeniable that it would be easier for the Tower if the Dragon had been a girl. Given Egwene's amicable attitude toward the Tower, even more so, had it been her. Pointing that out only makes sense, particularly given the character who said that line. That you think the show could have just gotten everything back to where it needed to be for Mat with a single episode is odd. I almost want you to write a script now, showing me how you would satisfyingly accomplish that. And they have devoted plenty of time to Rand. You just didn't like what they had him do in that time. If all you want is to see the protag being OP and smiting the bad guys with big-dick Super-Saiyan energy, there are tons of shonen anime programs that would scratch that itch. And while I also enjoy a good DBZ battle, I find it gets boring and repetitive, after a while. I'm more interested in Rand's journey as a reluctant savior than in constant examples of how he's the most powerful being in existence.
@reverseBLT I don't think the dagger was involved though if I get your point that is. Spoilers up to book 3 . . . . . . . . . . Rand kills ishy with a heated power blade and the a callandor again probably with a fire weave or something from his past. Or are you referring to another character?
@@GhaithHachem Spoilers for book one: * * * I'm referring to the wealthy DF who gets badly burned by Rand when he creates lightning, then gets "rewarded" by Ishamael as Ba'alzamon. Rand sees him with Ishy as a crispy shadow of the man he had been. Ishy says the fact that he identified Rand for him deserves a reward, then the man basically turns to ash, but right before he does, his look of joy suddenly changes to a look of shock "as if he had seen something he hadn't expected." In that instance, it was someone expecting eternal life realizing he wasn't going to get it, or at least not how he thought. At least, that's how I interpreted it. Spoilers for book seven and beyond: * * * In Ishy's case, we have an inversion. He thought he had finally been freed from the Wheel, only for the DO to say nope and hit the Respawn button.
OK yes good point forgot that. For the record I don't think Death will be skipped here. Or to put it in other words I will be very surprised if the show decides to skip that plot. Also I don't remember which book you are on so I'm trying to be dodgy. I had in mind book 5 but you are quoting 7 here 😁
I never read the books so I don’t know, but I get major romantic vibes from Mat towards Rand, but it’s unrequited. Does anybody else has this impression?
Really close friends can seem like they're romantically into one another, even when they're not, regardless of where their orientation may fall. People thought my best friend and I were a couple for years. It actually kept women from approaching us because they didn't want to mess up our nonexistent romantic relationship. 🤣
I forget who on Twitter posted it, but there's a really cool analysis of how Perrin's letter at the beginning of the season pretty much sets up exactly what happens in the finale. So cool!
Sounds like stuff past where I've read, but I think I know about *some* parts of it, and my guess is they'll push for some budget increases for those sequences.
@@reverseBLT without spoilers I can say chapter 37, could easily be season 7, I wanna say that single chapter is longer than Harry Potter The Philosophers Stone. I want to say its between 85,000-110,000 words... honestly though for me it flew by far to quickly, I had ending melancholy like I had never had before or since, and wish I could 10 second Tom the whole series , and read it as the first time, every time... Although I have to be honest and say of the 20 or so times I have read it starting in 1991... every time I see something new.
@@reverseBLT Also THANK YOU FOR YOUR TEARS, please never let any pain harden your heart, or cause you to conceal your empathy. Always feed and exercise your child heart. None of us live more than 12-13 decades, It is foolish to believe that one could ever be anything more than what we were born to be. Foolish to believe we could ever be fully wise, or supremely intelligent, the best we can hope for in this lifespan is to learn the beginning of true love, kindness, and peace.
Sorry for the late reply. CZcams's comments system makes it easy to miss replies to comments. But I wanted to say thanks for the affirming words. I think the key is not to be disappointed that we can't reach every lofty goal we might set for ourselves, but to reach for them anyway, even knowing most of them are beyond our grasp. Wishing you the best. 🫂
I wasn't sure how I felt about it after finishing the episode. I feel like the 2 big fights I was looking forward to were incredibly anticlimactic (1 of them, against Turak, being completely cut out), but its growing on me as I'm thinking about it.
Yeah. But given how they eliminated any training montages between Rand and Lan they really had no way to undergird his skill with his father’s sword. They really also had no explanation for how he went with the Indiana Jones alternative because he hasn’t really been training in the power or teaching himself. I’m just going to go with what BLT suggested that Lews Therin is getting loose unannounced to everyone. I’ve found the show much more enjoyable once I set aside the books and my brain. Thankfully the actors are making up for a lot of the poor plotting. Shrug. Just having fun with it now.
@@HablaCarnage63 It's 100 percent LTT. Josha's performance and the FX fully support that. This is one area though where the show is probably being too subtle for the show-onlys to pick up on it, while it's happening, making it seem like a plot hole. As for not getting the Turak fight, honestly, I'm happy it was changed. Even with the Lan training, it never sat right with me that a few months with a Warder, even the best Warder, could bridge the skill gap between a farmboy and a blademaster. The one thing I wish had been *more* was the Heroes sequence. I liked it, but would have liked to have seen maybe three times that many Heroes.
@@reverseBLT Yes a long bow or staff would have made more sense than a heron-mark blade given the boys’ lifetime exposure to them. Perhaps that’s why the named sword forms in the book held my interest so much. A ritualized language of violence common to all swordsmen in the world that Jordan built. In the books, I recall Rand barely holding his own against Turok. Which is why LTT as a voice in his head should been worked in and then just took over in frustration once Rand reached the limit of his current skill. The problem with the easy button is that Rand would not enter such a situation without knowing the outcome and ought to have relied on the stealth of the hunter. But yes on the second watch the Indy moment was quite funny.
I know what you mean, the sequence I think should have been edited and rearranged to work better... Nyneave and Elayne should have joined Egene in holding off the shield, instead of all of them acting and looking lame as if they were not all about to get killed, the focus was on the wrong priority ... and once Moirane freed Rand from his shield He should have gathered all of his strength to walk to Ishamael and face him and after defeating him Rand should collapse after using the last ounce of his strength and get healed ... this way Egwene would not look like someone as strong as one of the forsaken and Rand would get more focus ...
@@HablaCarnage63 True, Rand does barely win, and I think it did come down to Other Memory giving him an edge at a crucial moment. I think the show's trying to avoid inner monologue entirely (or dialogue, in this case), so they jumped ahead to a version of the outcome that still relied on LTT. Problem is the show-onlys might not get why that was able to happen. I'm assuming s3 will incorporate LTT more, and use some subtle tricks to show the increasing encroachment of those memories.
I like that as a book fan you understand this is another turning of the wheel. ive been reading these books for 32 years and understand this completely and love the show. Very happy to see it on screen and get suprised here and there, if it was exactly like the books there wouldnt be those oh ohoh moment as much. I sick of people tearing down the show and rafe. just be happy with what we have to watch. Cant wait to see who they cast for Kamarile Nindar
Thanks for the comment! I've always been a story over plot guy, and I love getting surprised by an adaptation, so that probably helps. There are still some nits I'll pick, and some things I'm waiting to see the payoff for, but that would be the same for any story. I hope more and more readers find it in them to adopt a similar approach so they can enjoy this show!
Thank you for another great reaction video. I know some book readers are upset we did not get Rand vs Turok sword fight but as I mentioned before unless the show pulled some sort of past memories stunt I can't see how at this point Rand would be able to take a blademaster with a sword. Non book readers may not have noticed this but the weave Rand used to take out Turok and the guards looked actually quite complex. We have only ever seen Moiraine or Egwene do one thing at a time. Rand fashioned multiple arrows of fire at the same time which is a nice nod to the book readers and some of the things early Rand pulls off. When Ishamael is trying to batter down Egwene's shield and sees the others start to arrive it looks like he uses the same weave or effect. Kidos for explaining how Moiraine got around the Three Oaths when she attacked the damane. I tried to rationalise it as her justifying it as if the Dragon fails the world ends hence her life being in danger. I figured the blue sitter/now damane used a similar work around to throw fireballs from the tower on the basis that if she didn't the sul'dam would kill her. It makes more sense that Moiraine was just making some cosmetic if unfortunately explosive changes to the ships.
As someone who was essentially raised to be a pathological truthteller, I'm naturally quite good at Aes Sedai thinking. 😅 I'm hoping the show-onlys are noticing the subtle ways the show's hinting at stuff with how Rand uses the Power.
I know the Grey Ajah are the mediators and lawyers of the White Tower but I got the sense in the books that part of a novice/accepted training is some legal lessons. There is nothing like being legally trained to give one an ability to come up with arguments to justify a particular course of action. It does not have to stand up in a court of law as long as the Aes Sedai convinces herself and she then has a work around the Three Oaths. On the issue of Rand's growing competence with the one power I saw an interview with the actor who plays Rand. He was asked when will we see Rand being super powerful. He said he could not spoil anything but he had a super big grin on his face and answered quickly to wait for season 3. Roseamund Pike was with him and also chipped in about season 3. While I did not see the interview personally I did come across a comment from someone who said the show runner had said they focused on the Three Rivers gang plus Elaine atop the tower near the end as a way of indicating a narrative shift for future seasons with there being more focus on that group driving the story. If we see more of Rand and he starts pulling off things he does in book 4 you could easily have a comment from Moiraine about his channelling is getting better and will continue to do so the more he practices. Plus season 3 really drove home the need Rand has to get a teacher, especially the way Siaun handled him. Who knows, maybe he will do something on that front. @@reverseBLT
@@dominicbrennan1882I admire the way you avoided dropping spoilers. 😄 I think we're past Rand's reluctance to answer the call now, and we're going to see *much* bigger, flashier displays of power from him in s3, especially considering the copious evidence of other influence in this season. Rafe also said recently that s3 is going to focus heavily on the Forsaken, and will have a lot of big battles and such, so yeah, Rand's going to have some big moments. Also the stuff in 3FL... Maybe Rand will have *two* teachers? Even three? 😁
I'm so glad the did the S2 Finale justice after the screwed up 1 so much in terms of quality. Now I can't wait for S3. I didn't care much for S2 after 1.
I think season 2 was better then 1 by a wide margin. That said I think the final episode failed on many levels; it again became a Rafe Fan-Fic for Egwene; for Rafe Egwene is the most important character and Rand is just sort of her support, not really all that important.
@@LordMaskinyou are not wrong, but Rafe is going to have a rough time keeping Rand in the background going forward. If you ask 10 bookreaders who their favorit character is. You probably get all the main characters. Mat is mine, so I would have Made Mat the lead going into this. I liked season 2 alot😊 not perfect because my favorit is not done like I would have vished
After the issues S1 had Rafe said they had to rewrite S2 because they couldn't tell the story they way he wanted due to having to recast Mat's actor. He stated because of this he leaned into showing their individual stories to get the main story back in line.
@@LordMaskinEgwene's damane plotline is *extremely* interesting, so giving that a satisfying and empowering conclusion was a smart decision. Other than that, the only thing Egg did was struggle to maintain a shield against a Forsaken. The show made it quite clear she wasn't going to win that one. Rand, meanwhile, finally rose to his feet while shielded, completing a mini-arc that maybe was too subtle. Then, once unshielded, effortlessly tanked what Egwene was struggling to barely hold back, then straight-up killed the mightiest of the Dark One's generals. It doesn't need to be flashy to be powerful.
@@reverseBLT I agree Egwene barely held the shield she even said sorry to Rand clearly indicating she would not hold it for much longer ... but Perrin saved the day with a magic shield from the age of legends ... people seem to exaggerate for some reason Egwenes stands off against Ishamael as if she was kicking his arse when she was clearly fighting a losing game, and only kept them alive!
Hopper getting got legit made me shout at the TV (Along with Egwene’s braid chop) - Justice for Hopper I hope Alias cooks Daims assssssssssss next season.
I just saw your other comment saying you haven't read the books, so I'm editing my response a bit. Spoiler Alert through at least book 5, "The Fires of Heaven" > > > at the point I'm at, which is Fires of Heaven, I would say he's well on his way, but he's got a lot of help to slow things down a bit.
In the books, the fact that Mat, Perrin and Rand are all ta'veren causes the pattern to create many coincidences for them. Unfortunately on TV, we just refer to this as plot armor and isn't uncommon.
You've probably hit on why a lot of watchers don't realize there's something special about the stuff that happens to and around these guys. TV often just treats characters as if they're ta'veren *anyway*. LOL They'll have to make some things more on the nose and maybe even have some characters call them out, next season, just to make the ta'veren luck clear as a thing.
Blt: Rafe, how did Loial survive getting stabbed by the dagger? Rafe: No he didn't. Nobody got stabbed by the dagger in the season 1 finale. BLT: Yes he did. Rafe: shhhhhhhhhhhhhh. no. He. Didn't.
I like the one theory floating around that the dagger doesn't just Do the Thing for everyone in this Turning, which is perfectly fine and a good explanation, but I need the show to say it, dang it!
@@reverseBLT Totally get that. I think that's why we had the Turok scene play out differently too because the sword practice had to be cut, it wouldn't make much sense for him to beat a blademaster without being taught. I believe we may have a lot explained in S3, and of course more questions 🤣.
Great reaction! I feel much the same, lots of changes but they're all to serve the story, it's just some things need condensing and some things need to be merged, some things need to be reworked, but that's what happens when you're maybe given up to 8 seasons with only 8 episodes each, all to cover 15 books. RE: Moiraine channeling at the boats, I took it al her defending a fellow Aes Sedai, since Rand is Lews Therin reborn, and Lews was an Aes Sedai. But her targeting the boats would be a loophole for sure!
I'll be honest, while I really enjoyed this season as a whole....I did not like this episode, Bookborn's season 2 review almost perfectly encapsulates the issues I had as a whole. Spoiler warning of course, but to name a few, starting with how Perrin and Nynaeve got completely dropped from the plot for the entire 2nd half of the season, and this episode is just the worst example. Rand slow walking up to Ishamael and killing him without any attempt to defend himself makes absolutely no sense, at least have an actual fight! Also, it should take a lot more to kill the strongest of the Forsaken than a single fiery stab wound. Moiraine kinda broke the three Oaths when destroying the ships.... Egwene shouldnt have really been able to put the collar on Renna due to the show's established rules that you absolutely cannot do anything with harmful intent to your Sul'Dam. I'd say the collar definitely counts. All these things just really dragged the episode down for me, I give it a 5/10 and i feel like thats a but too generous some days. I hope that the show can finally write a finale that sticks the landing, so far the track record has not been great.
Thanks for the comment. I think you raise some valid points. We've been talking a lot about several of them here and on Twitter, so I'll offer some thoughts. Mo loopholed the heck out of those boats, in my opinion. Notice she only struck their hulls. Any Seanchan who died did so only because they weren't strong swimmers. LOL I think what Egg did is another loophole kind of thing, because it depends, just like the Three Oaths, on how the individual is interpreting things at that moment. Nothing a damane views as a weapon can be touched. You can't *hurt* your sul'dam. Is an a'dam a weapon? Is collaring *hurting* someone? It causes no direct harm, no pain unless you make it do so or the collared attacks you. All Egwene had to do was think of the a'dam as something that would protect her and not hurt Renna unless Renna chose to hurt herself. More Perrin and Nynaeve wouldn't have been useful to their stories. We already got what we need at this point about the wolf bond, and enough with Hopper for even the show-onlys to be deeply hurt by his death. We already got what we needed for Nynaeve. Extra scenes with either would probably have felt a bit like running in place. As for Rand, spoiler warning for elements up to book three. * * * I think Rand was in a bit of a back seat position when he killed Ishamael. Josha does this interesting thing with his face that I think is meant to reflect when Lews Therin has taken over, and he looked that way from the moment he stood back up, unshielded. His weaves were also much more precise, from that point. I think everything from then to when he asked Ishy what he was seeing was more LTT than Rand. Also, considering Ishy disintegrated, I think there was more going on with the fiery stab wound than just fiery stabbing. It's why I initially suspected a Balefire element. I no longer think he got BFed, but there was more going on with that sword than just heat.
@@reverseBLT I've read the first 3 books, and while I do think a fight in the sky would have been silly or at least difficult to do correctly, I expected some sort of final confrontation and instead it felt like an Avengers assemble moment from the MCU. I stand by my criticisms regardless of loopholes, but I do appreciate the discourse. That said, I did enjoy Mats blowing of the horn, the whitecloaks. Lanfears been my favorite of the entire season, her relationship with Rand was spot on and was just as creepy and predatory as it should be. Egwene and Rena, despite my confusion on how she was able to collar her, was the highlight of the episode. Overall, there were some things I really liked but my issues and criticisms just make it impossible for me to say it was a good episode, in my opinion. I will continue watching and still have hope because overall it was a fantastic season, much much better than season 1.
I’ll try not to be a jerk, and I’ve read the first 6 books plus watched Daniel Greenes channel to get his summaries of each book to remind myself and all I will say as far as book vs show is that this battle is way more epic and this seemed very CW. Even the Witcher season 3s last 2 episodes seemed more epic than this. Obviously most of the commenters on this channel will disagree. So let me stick to the show. The show has said more than once that Rand being the Dragon Reborn makes him the most powerful channeler, but it hasn’t showed that at all. The scene with him killing Turock and the others was cool but Egwene and Moraine have way more amazing displays of power than that. In 2 seasons he’s done barely anything. Of course the lovers of the show will say but they’ve been trained and have experience. That’s a good excuse but you still want to show not just say he’s the most powerful. You could have him just have emotional outbursts of power. Like he breaks free from the hold on him with a burst of power. Then destroys Ishy in a similar way. Instead they have all his friends constantly having to help him because he can’t do anything by himself. Then instead of him having the big battle in the sky where everyone see’s him win and see him as the Dragon Reborn, Moraine has to do something to show them. This isn’t good storytelling and very frustrating. He barely even has a relationship with Lan which is importing in the books. But forget that. Just as the show, your Chosen character has shown us next to nothing in 2 seasons. Egwene and Moraine are the real stars. Nynaeve is ok. Lan is ok. Perrin was pathetic and got a little better. I was very disappointed. If you watch Bookborn or Daniel Greene you’ll get balanced takes from people who want to like the show but just can’t love it because of a lot of weak storytelling. And even most of the fights seem very choppy in this episode. Like there where better ones in earlier episodes
@@duckfist except they’re not just looking to be negative. I’m not talking about Shadiversity. I’m talking about people who know how to describe good vs bad writing. It’s why Daniel Green gets guys like Joe Ambercrombie and Brandon Sanderson on his show and has actually been invited to watch the finale and give a reaction with Brandon (who wrote the last book in the series in case you don’t know). And I was hoping to like it myself. Just can’t ignore when things don’t make sense. I just wanna watch a good fantasy series. I enjoyed Witcher season 1 & 2. Not so much 3. Loved House of the Dragon. It’s just disappointing when there’s so much potential but you get CW level writing. It doesn’t need to be a chapter by chapter adaptation. But it can be great
I'll admit Daniel is better balanced than a lot of other people looking at the show critically. I haven't seen his recent analysis because I think he spoiled me on something a while back, but what I'll say, just from my own perspective, is that Rand seeming underpowered is down mainly to two things. First is that we've become a bit too used to large, flashy displays of power, so the objectively impressive things Rand does are seen as weak. Second is that Rand is a *reluctant* hero and the show has chosen, at least thus far, to focus on that. He doesn't want his powers. He doesn't want to be the Dragon. He just wants to be a simple sheepherder raising a family and watching the sun rise and set each day. I'll add that the show probably also wants to draw a direct link between Rand's more devastating uses of the Power and the ever-present danger of the Madness, which is why they're hinting at the fact that LTT is driving the moments when Rand does wield the Power really effectively.
I held off the tears when Moiraine spoke to Lan. And even when Hopper flew off to the sky i managed.
But for some reason when Mat blew the horn and said the thing the dam burst.
They set up that one-two punch.
Mat kind of got emotionally beat up for the entire season. I think him blowing the horn was the strongest point of catharsis. Although Uno being a hero of the horn was also a big deal to me. The actor that plays him is a book reader and Uno fan. They soft killed him at the end of season 1 and then again in season 2. His character was around for a long time in the books...so I am glad he got a payout.
@@joeleek9976They really managed a decent job handling Mat after the behind-the-scenes shakeup from last season. Quite a few writers rooms would have just said fuck it, let's kill him off, under similar circumstances.
I really dig how they found two powerful uses for Uno, considering that, while being a fan favorite, he didn't have much narrative purpose in the books. And, this way, might even get to see him again in a really impactful manner. 😁
I KNOW right? I'm only on book 3 just to stay ahead of the show reading but it was Mat's moment that made me tear up
It was such a beautiful scene. I was like you, holding back tears.
@@reverseBLT
It's nice to see a book reader actually enthusiastic about the show
I'm not the only one, though I know it can seem that way, sometimes.
@@reverseBLT I hope you get the goody bag too
There are plenty of us out there!!
@@reverseBLT Just got here after watching Daniel Greene's review, so this was a refreshing experience
There's a goody bag? I want a goody bag.
My sweet boy Hopper. Doesn't matter knowing or not knowing, it is still crushing.
Yeah... Our good boi soars with the eagles, now. 😭
I ugly cried
@@livechilllife 🫂
Crushing is a good way to say it ugh!
Yep at least as readers we knew it could be coming and could brace for it a bit. Non-reader reactors got hit really hard on that one
one of my favourite changes this episode was Dain Bornhald seeing Perrin kill his father. it sets up their future interactions and motivations so much better than in the books. in general i feel the villains are better overall in the show than in the books.
And the nice added touch that they met under friendly circumstances before having a conflict over essentially a *moral* issue, then fighting side-by-side briefly, before the axe swings that sealed their enmity.
@@reverseBLT yup. it really gives the whole "we could've been friends but the circumstances make it so that's impossible" feel. great choice for a pretty annoying character in the books.
I’m a show only person and my thought when Rand took out Turok and his boys made me think when Moiraine told him in 108 that when he had the adrenaline flowing through him, the power would be there. He had just seen Egwene being marched to the tower. He was full of emotion, and wanted to get to her, and these men were in his way. I think that channel was effortless.
You're definitely right about the *power* being there. Just keep it in the back of your head that the *complexity* of what he did was beyond him. That's all I'll say because I'm not a spoilery jerk. 😁S3's got some stuff in store...
plus after channeling he has an expression of "Where did that came from!?"
@@Fabianationx123 Yup. Josha's definitely doing enough acting to convey when Rand's not himself, but still subtle enough to be missed. I think s3 is going to be a bit more overt with that, considering where we are now.
As a long time reader I can tell you that the sword fight between Rand and Turok in the books has always been a point of contention. In the books though, Rand had received a lot more sword training from Lan at that point and it still seemed out of place. The show hasn't really had any of that other than what he might have learned from the dude he was looking after where Logain is. It was already something not everyone accepted well in the books and it would've been even less believable if the show tried it. Randiana Jones was the right call for sure here and his surprised look after doing it fits very well with the books.
@@Finnssssss It's honestly one of my favorite changes so far. 😄
My personal headcanon on Moraine unmasking the bond is that she actually just dissolved it completely before going to the Eye, just in case she didn't make it. That's why she couldn't let him back in while she was "stilled" - you'd think you'd be able to do that without the power since they describe it in the books as imagining it wrapped up, not that they'd channeled to do it. So that lovely moment was her actually re-bonding Lan, not just unmasking the bond. Also I love watching everyone's reactions to Uno, because I, too, screamed my head off 😂
Ooh, I like that headcanon.
*Yoink*
Been a while since I watched season 1 so couldn't remember exactly, but my guess was that their bond was entirely gone based off of how everyone was treating it. Other warders checking in on Lan to make sure he wasn't going to off himself, etc..
@@RDehuvyne Definitely what everyone thought, probably including Lan, at first. While I wonder about the logistics of it, I really appreciate just the beauty of the scene reestablishing their connection. How can any ordinary bond compare to what they have?
I agree that probably was what happened. Moiraine believed she would die at the Eye of the World because she was not the Dragon Reborn. She probably could not know if masking the bond would be enough to prevent Lan from becoming suicidal, so releasing it entirely was her way to protect him.
@@jwselIt really does make a ton of sense, given what we know about her and what we saw happen with Steppin. This is now also my headcanon.
Uno is in fact Gaidal Cain
All I need is a makeout scene to confirm it. 😁
@@reverseBLT i think Rafe confirmed it but I'm sure we'll get a scene like that 😂😂
@@XCVIII YISSSSSS 😁
@@XCVIII He did yes
someone else noted the lighting change though in the room, so they theorized perhaps moghedien pulled Lanfear into a dream shard that she could fully control and trap Lanfear in, and she didn't actually "travel" just shifted the dream. I guess we'll see if it's Travelling in the future :).
Ooh, good catch. Very prepared little spider.
I have a feeling next season might follow book plot points a bit more with the Aiel though, changing anything there I think changes too much@@reverseBLT
@@Yawgrimas Agreed. The events with them *mostly* need to play out the same way, with a few spots for deviation. There are opportunities to expand on some events to incorporate what we've been hoping to see with flicker-flicker, for instance.
I rewatched the season over the last two days. In episode one in Perrin's letter to Egwene and Nyn he writes of his new found appreciation and understanding of shields. Great foretelling. When Uno/Gaidal gave that shield to Perrin I wondered if it meant that Perrin was a Hero of the Horn. The shield seemed to protect from Ishy's channeling, which reminded me of a certain trinket we've yet to see. Great reaction/review, thank you.
Huh, That would be a fantastic surprise if that shield is the show's replacement for said trinket. I do like that idea.
Glad you liked it! I'm not sure I remember what trinket the shield may be replacing, but I'll keep an eye open for any additional foreshadowing/confirmation!
Moghedian's casting is PERFECT.
I'm sold on her.
I like your reaction videos, you don't try to play it up for the camera, and you make intelligent analysis and guesses
Thanks for the kind words! I hate it when people put on an act for the camera (except for sketches where it's *supposed* to be fake). It makes me happy to know being just my real self resonates with some folks. As for the intelligent analysis and guesses, I just get lucky sometimes. LOL
Cougar Lanfear still rocking it. Excellent intro for the Spider as well.
Mildly sad the Ingtar twist was left out but I thought he should probably be dead based on the end of last season.
Most of my problems now are simply execution and character motivation issues.
Glad to finally see Matt being treated a bit better.
Now that they have shown how powerful working together is I fully expect them to be broken up and scattered to the winds again.
I think Ingtar will be revisited, worked into Perrin's arc, especially if Layla really was a DF.
Mat's beginning the upward trend of his arc now, finally leaving behind the part of his story I think most readers kinda forget because it wasn't particularly uplifting or even all that interesting for a while.
And yup. LOL Gotta hurt the darlings.
it is possible that was filmed but ended up under the knife due to the episode time limit same as many other clips ... I've seen some clips that were deleted like Moirane with Loial planning the trip through the ways in season one that I wish they kept because it would have made so much more sense to new viewers what was going on and was Loial coming with them ... or a deleted clip of Padan Fain opening the Ways with a leaf ...
@@BerndrYeah, it's a shame when time limits force edits such as these, because they have knock-on effects. On the plus side, material exists for a director's cut. 😁
And for the love of the creator, Amazon needs to give them more episodes. Even 2 more episodes would have made such a difference this season.
I am really looking forward to this version of Moggy. First off I have seen this actress before and she's quite good.
Second, the book version was much more along the lines of an arrogant coward. This take on her is much more interesting.
I really loved how she literally wired the whole room to trap Lanfear. Notice the lighting difference when she left? The whole room was webbed.
Also not sure if you caught it in the cold open but we got confirmation of what most readers knew from the figurine with the scarred face, they named Sammael
Do you really need a translation of what Mat yelled before the charge?!😂 If so, he yelled his signature phrase of," Time to toss the dice!!"
Wait, is that really what he yelled? 😅
@reverseBLT may not be the exact wording, but yes, it's in the books and goes right along with his gambler persona. 😁
@@richardlohne8595 If so, that would explain why no subtitles. They probably expected the readers to know, and it's a fun setup for the show-onlys. I'm just a dunce failing to connect the dots on this one. LOL
@@reverseBLTit's because you're only through book 5. You will be made aware of that particular line very quickly in book 6. It's not Mat's only battle call he uses in the books but I'm not sure how far the show will delve into that part of Mat. Didn't he shout something in S1? Damn, I'm going to have go back and look.
Ah, so I'm slightly less of a dunce. LOL
I think he did yell something in OT in s1, but I can't remember where or what the circumstances were. I'm certain he has at least one random moment where he speaks OT without knowing he had or what he had said in book one, though.
Amazing finale! This show is getting so damn good.
The leveling up has only just begun! Onward to Tarmon Gai'don!
Goosebumps!! From the scene with Morraine and Lan , to mat and his' i remember' , the whole episode was amazing ! Am glad he didnt finght Turok would hve made a mockery of being a blademaster, as people have pointed out he's no wherenear ready. Rafe has confirmed Uno is Cain in this telling and am loving it!
I think Egwene struggling against Ishy is going to highlight what a certain someone else can do when actually fighting a spider!
So. much. anticipation.
@@reverseBLT you're not wrong! So much set up , so much hinting that we are getting alot more from the books than i expected!
That Say Hello to Sadness clip was so perfect.
When I found that one, I knew it would be on frequent rotation on this channel. 😅
full book reader here and just found your channel. REALLY enjoyed your reactions. appreciate your thoughts!!
Welcome to the channel! And thanks so much for the kind words! I hope to join you as a *full* book reader before we get to our own New Spring.
@@reverseBLT seemed like you had read everything! where are you in the books?
I've read through The Fires of Heaven. I have snippets of knowledge from later books because of casual spoilers online and because I sometimes forget that Wiki Walks are dangerous. 😅
@@reverseBLT you could read New Spring at any point after book 5 with minimal spoilage really but optimally you should wait till after 7 imo.
Besides you don't want to delay reading 6 anyway.
As I think I said before, you should have all your streaming stuff set up and ready to go when you're close to finishing book 6 then jumping on camera right after. Getting to see your raw reaction to the ending of that book is definitely something I would wanna see. Even if it's just you staring at the camera with tears running down your face with a smile and a look of wonder lol I'll take it
I've never thought of filming my reaction to a book before. Hmm. Might just do it.
As you say there is a LOT of changes from source in this episode but they are not without purpose. Personally really enjoyed it. Like you i did enjoy the indiana jones moment as well although i understand why some would be annoyed. Have to say i am loving all the forsaken in this show. Lanfear has been great and loved the introduction to moggy as well.
Oh and btw, thanks for all the reactions, i have enjoyed them all!
@@tw7998Glad to hear it! I hope you'll like my reactions to some other things, too! I can't wait to see how the stakes get raised for s3, especially with the world's craziest banker on the loose! 😂
@@reverseBLT I am working my way through the mandalorian but then will start on andor and will definitely start following the reactions:).
And yup roll on S3 I can't wait
@@tw7998 I look forward to hearing what you think!
I forget, did you say you watched the Expanse?
Good catch on Rand holding the sword by the blade for a split second when he first talks to Egwene. I have watched the episode many times and totally missed that!
I only noticed because that sort of thing always freaks me out. 🤣
Without Rosamund Pike's heavy involvement in this show, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be quite as blessed with the caliber of actors (female, especially)that we get here. If you don't really follow acting , you may not realize how stacked the supporting cast of this series is.
I tend to be the guy who recognizes people but can't remember where from. LOL But I know acting, at least, and this cast has been very impressive, nearly top to bottom. Even the minor players tend to give excellent performances.
Now I know why the show killed Uno early on. They need him when Mat blows the Horn. They definitely merged Uno and Gaidal Cain. After he gave his shield to Perrin, he drew a second sword.
Killed on one golden horn and brought back by another. Gotta love it!
@@reverseBLT I didn't think of that. So it seems there's already a foreshadowing of Uno returning as a Hero of the Horn since episode 3. People were so busy being upset at Uno's death that we didn't realize that he died by a golden horn. At least, I haven't heard or read any theory about that back then.
I knew he was going to die immediately upon seeing the horn on Suroth's palanquin, but I didn't think about the Horn of Valere connection before the fact, as much as I wish I could gloat over that. Though I am the only one I know of pointing out the connection *after* the fact, so I'll gloat a tiny bit. 😄
Rather than a different turning of the Wheel, I like to call this show a mirror world - "The Pattern has infinite variation, and every variation that can be, will be."
Wheels within wheels, ad infinitum.
im a show only viewer so thank you for your commitment to no spoilers :) i thought an interesting connection between Lan and Moiraine, and their mutual re establishment of the bond can be mirrored as a foil in the "bond" the sul'dam and damane share that makes them powerful together ie "the fire" they set to the tree in previous episodes, and how Egwene comes into her power through her resistance.. such a great analysis, and really interesting places they are taking the show
I think you're right. There are a lot of interesting parallels to draw between the Aes Sedai and their bonds, with each other and their warders, and the sul'dam/damane dynamic. I hope they continue to explore stuff like that, along with the parallels the other groups have with the Aes Sedai and one another. Most of these organizations are trying to do *good*, and firmly believe their way and any restrictions they impose are vital to serving the Light and fighting the Shadow, yet each does a fair bit of bad while trying to serve good.
And thank you for the compliments! 😄
Moghedien's first introduction and release in a Seanchan fortress in Falme ironically foreshadows her fate. Also, Moghedien is shown to have an inferiority complex in the last scene, which might be the show's reason for her joining the Dark One.
Donal Finn was totally channeling some Jack Sparrow vibes for his portrayal of Mat.
I really liked Barney's interpretation and I was worried I wouldn't like Donal.... but Donal IS mat.
Makes sense. A bit of a cocksure addict kinda thing. LOL
@@AtticsTV Barney was really good as early books darker Mat but if I'm being honest, I think Finn is probably better suited for book 3+ Mat.
"Is this a sex thing or a murder thing?" Was golden.
@@joeleek9976 Such a great line that really felt like Mat to me, and delivered perfectly by Donal.
I've been waiting for you to review this. I've enjoyed all your reviews for this show. Thank you so much.
Thanks for the encouraging words! I hope you enjoyed it!
"strong enoungh to break the shield:" If it is 6 or more women maintaining the shield (as was the case with the damane), a man (or anyone) cannot break it, regardless of strength.
I stand corrected. 😅
It was always my impression that when the books mention 6 women they meant 6 in a linked circle, and the ter'angreal collars used by the Seanchan prevent the damane from linking. I know there's some debate about the 6 linked vs unlinked though.
@@Rimaku0 I can't remember. I may take the risk of looking it up.
Never Bring A Heron To A Saidin Fight
Knowing its coming, especially in the show, makes Hoppers death more crushing, because we have been spending more time with him in the show than in the books.
And while it makes sense for Uno to be Gaidal Cain in the show, in a sense, Gaidal Cain might no exist in the show, because it would be odd for non-book readers if they suddenly begin to call Uno, Gaidal. So Uno would probably be Gaidal Cain in everything, but name.
I also say i love the way the show showcases how Aviendha, Bain and Chiad interact with eachother, doing the Aiel speech and not let all of them use the common tongue.
I think the Ingtar twist was left out of the show, because it ultimately didn't matter, because he turned back before his death anyways.
Others seem to be bothered with not getting Rand vs Turak. I personally didn't since in the books, we have clearly see Rand getting trained in the act of swordfighting, while in the show he hasn't. So Rand using the one power, makes the most sense to me here anyways.
Interesting Ishy has only broken six seals, which means 8 of them are out there, meaning 5 are not (Despite Ishy being dead, i still say 8 because we all know he is coming anyways). With Moggy and Lanfear in and Sammael and Graendal being namedropped, i think the Forsaken are Ishy/Moridin, Sammael/Demandred (Both are army commanders and swordfighters, so it makes sense to combine them), Rahvin/Be'lal and Asmodean. Then we have Lanfear/Mesaana, Moggy, Sermihage and Graendal.
I mean... Aginor and Balthamal don't play a story anymore anyways, considering we already got the Eye of the World and that storyline went to Ishy. I feel like we have to get Asmodean, since he is connected to both Lanfear and Graendal story wise.
Rahvin is needed to drive the plot forwards in Andor, which is probably gonna be the main setting in terms of countries and the same can be set for Illian with Sammael.
Another interesting thing i noticed, that not many seem to pick is the moment Egwenes shield started to break, Perrin showed up with Uno's shield to block the attack. So i guess Uno's shield has magical abilities that it can reflect channeling.
Yup, I'd say it's a certainty there are only eight Forsaken in the show's Turning. Every reference we've gotten so far has numbered no more than eight. Probably Ishamael and Lanfear have had the most merged into them for the reasons you mentioned.
I had thought we'd already seen Mesaana onscreen, but now I think we've just seen her victim. Not saying more because spoilers. LOL
I think they *might* call Uno Gaidal Cain at some point just because the reincarnation aspect of existence is already decently established, so it wouldn't take much work to do, but it would be simpler just to keep him using Uno. Just confirm it with Birgitte through behavior.
I think Ingtar's purpose will mainly be for Perrin's development, which is probably why they felt cutting the reveal wouldn't hurt the overall story too much. They will have to rework how Perrin finds out, though.
I *love* the way they did the Turak "fight." I never liked the idea that Rand learned enough in half a year of training with Lan to beat a swordmaster. This made so much more sense, and made me LOL, to boot. I only worry that the show-onlys won't get the deeper significance of *how* Rand did that.
@@reverseBLT Did they ever call him Nomesta in the show (I honestly forgot).. if not... they might actually call him Uno Cain for that connection.
I feel like season 2 so far has set up 3 possible plotpoints for season 3 (And i feel like Season 3 will put Mat slightly on the backburner in favor of Perrin of Rand, since i felt like season 2 was Mats in terms of the boys development). I won't go into said plotpoints for Rand though, due to possible spoilers.... but we have the Aiel plot and the Whitecloak plot for sure and i think a possible plotpoint for season 4 also has been hinted wtih a certain Shienaran when Rand revealed himself/got revealed as the Dragon Reborn.
@@nickdentoom1173 I think all the guys will get about equal development in s3 because a certain change of venue will enable two of them to be together most of the time and the plot for the other one is pretty well guaranteed to be in there.
I support the Uno Cain thing, though, considering it's a different Turning, there's another way to do it without a name change at all, but won't say more.
And yeah, no words were needed to convey the depth of the *revelation* someone received when Rand was revealed. Looking forward to how they handle that storyline.
@@reverseBLT The storyline for that character has actually become more problematic with that other character not being in the show anymore for that specific storyline, considering that the one character that isn't there anymore, was the only one who could keep the other one in check.
@@nickdentoom1173 Fair point. I assume that role will be merged with someone else. The question is *whom* . If I had to write it, probably it would be Perrin, because it could follow his arc decently well, in a lot of ways. Of course, they could also sidestep that by letting many of the developments in that storyline happen offscreen. It doesn't truly *have* to dovetail with the main story for a while.
Imagining Rand and Ishamael as Indiana Jones and Belloq.
"Lews Therin. Again we see there is nothing you can possess which I cannot take away."
"You can't break the Wheel, Ishamael! It belongs in a museum!"
29:50 Perrin was like "It's just a weave"
😂
There are Eight Forsaken in the show: Ishamael, Lanfear, Moghedien, Graendal, Sammael, Asmodean (guitar statue), Semirhage (neck collar statue), and Demandred (Important). I believe the story in Season 3 will focus on Rand's training to be the Dragon Reborn and the threat of the Black Ajah (built up in Season 2) in the White Tower. It is safe to say Nynaeve and Elayne will tell Moraine what they know and start their Black Ajah investigations on Liandrin. Since Moghedien is likely the main antagonist in place of Ishamael in Season 3, I believe she will have a part in leading the Black Ajah conspiracy (Ishamael probably gave Moghedien info on them and their members).
I still want Jack Black to be Asmodean. LOL I think Semirhage was merged into Lanfear, though, leaving Mesaana as the last Forsaken. I think we've already seen her actor, if not technically *her* . 😉
@@reverseBLT I really want to see Asmodean on screen because he joined the Dark One for hilarious reasons. Loved how the Forsaken are treated as serious threats.
@@ryankwon8785 That's exactly why I want Jack Black to portray him. Just seems to fit his character so well. Dude just wanted his encore. LOL
@@ryankwon8785 Do me a solid and put a spoiler warning ahead of that last bit about Asmodean. Thanks! 😁
But yeah, I would actually love to see some of the gleeman Rand stuff incorporated with Asmodean. Not necessarily traveling around, although...
I hope Semirhage is not cut. She's always been the Forsaken I wanted to see most in a live action show.
Fun video! Have fun getting deeper in the books.
One comment about Rand breaking the shield. While it’s possible to break a shield, there’s a thing in the books where a circle of 13 can shield anyone. Even Rand couldn’t break out from 13 average channelers.
I think the show’s magic number is 8 instead of thirteen, which is how many damane they had in the boat.
So, he could have broken out of the 1 Aes Sedai shields from the previous episodes if he knew more, but I don’t think he could break that one.
That’s my guess anyway.
Yeah, I had forgotten all about the established fact that a certain, relatively small number of channelers basically render any amount of power moot. Not sure what the magic number is in the show, but it would make sense for it to continue to mirror the number of Forsaken.
@@reverseBLT depends on which Rand you are talking about,the one after Dragonmount was godlike,egwene even said it after he visited her at the tower
Feels like this needs a spoiler warning. 😆
Been looking forward to your reaction to this one mate! Just sitting down to start, lets see if you bawl your eyes out as much as i did!
Usually I beat people in the bawling department. LOL
If this - as Rafe said before - was really a different turning of the wheel, would this be a previous turning, or a future one?
Because if it were the future, then a certain sadistic Forsaken (and a couple of others iirc) shouldn't show up. iykyk
Both, of course. LOL But yeah, I think that's part of the rationale for there being only eight Forsaken.
Possible lore spoilers for the whole series...
If you are implying that balefire can be used to permanently destroy souls so that they are not reborn, RJ himself reportedly said "If someone is balefired, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they CAN be spun back out into the Wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the eternal death of the soul."
It's a common misconception, even Brandon Sanderson believed balefire = eternal death of the soul, before Team Jordan corrected him as he was taking over writing the series.
I appreciate your positivity about the show. I've read the books, mostly as a Brandon Sanderson fan (I started the first book twice back in the 90s and just couldn't get into it). I enjoyed the overall story, but there are many flaws in the books, and I feel like the show is doing a great job translating this story into a very different format, capturing the essence of it without the annoying parts.
Thanks for the compliment! It's funny, because I was definitely a bit hard on the show in the first few eps of season one, but I think it leveled up pretty well, as it ran, despite the noticeable hiccups from Covid and a major cast member leaving, at the end. I'm not quite halfway through the books, but I've been enjoying them a lot, though they too have some jank. 😄They've also been leveling up as I go. I'm curious how I'll feel when I get to the supposed Slog, though.
I always love your WoT reactions! Thank you for sharing them with us. This episode was such a great way to end the season, and the hype for season 3 is through the roof for me. If you get back to reading the books soon, I think we all would enjoy hearing your thoughts/feelings about them as you progress. You've proven to be pretty insightful about the themes and messages you've identified so far in the books, which has enhanced the quality of your reactions to the show as a side benefit.
Anyway, let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time!
We're about to finish Eye of the World in the book club, then on to The Great Hunt. I'll probably reread 3-5 on my own, after that, then continue with the rest of the series. I'm still a bit nervous about doing a scripted video, but who knows? Anyway, thanks for all the kind words!
So we know that Mat has a weapon that can open doors now...
Awesome episode review as always. You are one of my favorites .Always look forward to your commentary. I even got emotional with you. Looking forward to next season.
Aw, thanks for saying so. And here's a hug for the episode feels! 🫂
@@reverseBLT 🫂 back
I feel like that shirt is worth at least +1 streets of Caemelyn credit. It has me questioning why I haven't had a Dragon bath robe all along.
Being ta'veren has its advantages. 😉
i have weird feelings toward the rand end. because as far as the show at the moment goes and some much later development its very cool to see him fully held up and supported by his friends. But i feel a huge part of getting to his biggest developments is him not seeing or noticing these things earlier on and feeling isolated.
I get where you're coming from. I think the idea is to condense the "I'm all alone in this" part of Rand's development to the part of his arc where he's still running away from being the Dragon. It keeps that attitude from feeling like it's going on long enough to begin straining the audience's sympathy for him, and it also adds to the stakes of the Madness, which I think the next part of the arc will begin to lean very heavily into.
Bookcloaks are so annoying at this point. As a long time reader...since the late 90s. I've been so happy with season 2
yes they are
I'm just going to keep beating the drum of story vs plot. Eventually maybe the bookcloaks will start dancing to it.
I have read the series several times, and I love this turning of the Wheel. I don't get the hate. I decided before release that I would temper my expectations. Understanding the limitations a television adaptation faces has freed me to enjoy this for what it is.
@@scottlyons33 Willingness to accept change is definitely a big part of enjoying adaptations. I'm glad you were able to do that. Fortunately, more and more people are finding that capacity, as the series continues.
There certainly were some issues with season 1, but they are more than making up for it this season. What people need to get though is that this is based on the books, not an exact adaptation.
Hadn't heard the term Bookcloaks until just now but it is such a fitting description and had to do a double take when I heard it and pause to give it a good chuckle.
I really appreciate what you said about Renna, everyone else has been cheering over her death, but I think she honestly deserved a little pity She was like a brainwashed member of a cult, and Xelia's portrayal of her death was so desperate and scared, I did feel sorry for her.
Also, the one thing I really wish was different in this episode, I wish Nynaeve had helped Egwene channel the shield for Ishamael, I think it would have been more logical considering his power level, and it would have given Nynaeve a bit more to do.
I think they were going with a shell-shocked thing with Nynaeve, because of being bonded through the a'dam with someone at the moment of her death. If so, it should get touched on next season, because it would be a logical new hurdle for her to overcome.
It can be hard to have sympathy for the devil, so to speak. Renna was awful, but she was *made* awful, and that deserves consideration. A different life would have made a different woman. Such a shame. Glad to know I'm not alone in having some compassion for her and the rest who've been so warped by Seanchan culture.
Egwene did not kill her in books. But this OP darkfiend version of Egwene did.
@@jonahdav9589 It made perfect sense, in the moment, and will be useful for the character's growth, going forward. And Egg isn't OP. She's exactly what she was in the books: an extremely powerful channeler who's still way outclassed by two of her closest friends and the Forsaken.
Out of interest, since you said you have been reading the books but not finished them, how far along are you?
Also, i was right there with you thinking we were gna get some flicker flicker action. Ah well. Maybe in s3. It's gna be a lot of Three Fold Land stuff after all. We might get the doorways there.
I'm holding off continuing with book six because we're doing a reread through at least book two in the channel's Discord, right now. After we're done with that, I'll continue on my own. Should be done with the books well before s3 premieres.
Speaking of, yeah, I think some version of flicker-flicker will happen in s3. Got the columns to do, after all. And Finn-ishing School will be in session; I'm sure of it!
Where did you get your ring? I ask bc I'm doing a Moghedian costume for Halloween
I just used a wide rubber band. It worked surprisingly well. The only thing I wish I could have done was found one that looked like gold or figured out how to make that one look like it. Thanks for letting me know it worked well on camera!
So, have you started up book 6 yet?
Another option you could do for the end of book 6 is what I saw Nerdy Nightly do. They were doing a weekly book club thing reading like a dozen chapters a week and talking about what they read but their followers got them to read chapter 54, grab the audio book, play chapter 55 Dumai's Wells and treat it like a regular reaction video. It runs just short of an hour and you could probably edit it to half that muting and unmuting it to keep it in compliance.
Just a thought 😉
Interesting idea. In the channel's book club, we've had to push back the conclusion of Eye of the World several times due to scheduling conflicts and illness. I'm worried the ongoing neck pain might postpone it again, but, yeah, I'm still a little ways from book six. 😅
Been waiting for your video…thank you - can’t wait for season 3!
It will never cease to humble me that there are people who actually wait for my reactions. Thanks so much!
I love your editing of fun clips and such in, great video!
Thanks! I hope I'm striking a good balance with those and not putting in too many.
Every place in the Books, where it is 13, in the show so far its 8. 8 Aes Sedai went after Logain, 8 Forsaken, 8 Damane on the ship to hold Rand so I don't think Rand could have got out of the Shielding by himself.
There are a couple of other places where it is 13, and I suspect it is 8 in the show, but spoilers at this stage.
Did Rand’s weave against Ishamael have black strands in it? Is that due to the blade he was stabbed with?
It did. All of Rand's weaves have black strands that come in after he starts channeling. It's the Dark One's taint on the male half of the One Power.
@@reverseBLT - thanks for explaining that ☺️
@@threekats7610 No worries. You'll see the same thing on Logain's weaves back in s1.
Thanks for your great reaction. I love how you spoke and non-spoke about key points. Let's see how they develop for s3.
Glad you liked it! I hope you'll join me for TFL and Finn-ishing School in S3, among other things!
@@reverseBLTThis is actually my second time seeing your reactions. I generally watch non-reader reactions because they are generally more interesting and less depressing (not bookcloaky). However, you and I have the same reader reactions. You've understood that this is an adaptation. They will add as much as they can to be most like the books, but some thing can't stay for reasons of budget, covid/actor issues. They've done a great job recovering from the latter. I think they are on a great journey to continue the story of book 4. Book 3 stories not covered won't be missed terribly. The tangible results of the Stone of Tear will be incorporated somehow into the stories of S4 I think.
@philc2729 Thanks for coming back! 😁
I agree that the plots of book three and four can be rolled together without losing much. Even elements of book five. I'm debating with myself whether the Red Door will happen in s3 or 4. I know a lot of people have decided it won't happen because of Mo's arc in s2, but I think they're wrong. Oh, show-onlys, don't look that up, I beg you. It would be an *enormous* spoiler.
@@reverseBLT How did you bold a word in YT? Can you also add spoiler tags?
@philc2729 if you put asterisks around words, they get bolded. Unfortunately, I know no way to add proper spoiler tags on YT. I wish they would add that. My method has been to announce spoilers, then add around five or six empty lines or lines with just a random character so the spoiler content gets hidden by the cutoff limit. Then people have to click "Read More" to see the spoiler.
14:04 exactly what I thought because he's looking around the area with "what just happened" all over his face
Josha's handling the bleedthrough really well. There are clear face changes indicating the balance.
I appreciate that the finale wasn't shot in the dark, so you could actually see things happening this time around.
They *really* need to sort that out.
I suspect that poor lighting in the season one finale was done, at least in part, to try to hide, as much as possible, the heavy use of not necessarily the best CGI. Recall that the season one finale was heavily hobbled by Covid restrictions limiting the number of actors they could have. Making the best of a bad situation.
@antonbrakhage490 I suspect you're right.
So when Renna says "If I die you'll die." it makes no sense. Just 5 minutes before this, Nynaeve's damane was shot in the neck with an arrow, and Nynaeve was fine.
I think she's speaking as her *sul'dam*, not as her damane. A failsafe to stop damane from having a chance to escape if their sul'dam are killed.
Loving season 2 as a new turning and writing has now convinced me they can tell the story right even if it's not the same. No spoilers but just want to say twice and twice shall he be marked which means we have to have certain events in book 3 before the waste
Yup. Though not *necessarily* before the events in TFL, or at least not necessarily before *all* of those events. I have to reread book three to figure out how they could structure season three.
I hope they don't spend all of season 3 in the aiel waste.
@@joeleek9976 they could, enough things happen to enough of the characters there that they could certainly fill 8 episodes.
@Chrysophrase2 oh I know they could. That's why I am worried.
I think they'll split the time between TFL, EF, and the Tower. There's enough going on at each location.
Couple of things that you might ot have picked up on
1. Lanfear made teh Dragon not Morraine, Morraine sent Fire, Lanfear added to it and turned it into the Dragon, you can see the second stream adding to it as it reaches the Tower.
2. Moghedian was in the room when Lanfear entered, you can see her in teh shadows when she looks from one set of three stones to the other, she's was setting teh trap and once Lanfear was in teh right place the light increases revealing her. And once she travels, the light goes brighter again back to normal levels.
Rafe confirmed Uno is Gaidal Cain btw.
I definitely missed the first thing (and the second, but I assumed Moggy was there from the start, once they showed her). She's a sneaky little spider. I like what someone said about Moggy maybe pulling Lanfear into a dream shard.
Yay! The tinfoil hat's powers of deduction come through for me yet again! #UnoCainConfirmed 😂
Ishamael saying that Rand turned Egwene into a murderer seems out of place because Egwene thinks that she killed Valda (the Questioner) so she already thinks she is a murderer so this wouldn't really change things in that way.
SPOILER ALERT BOOK KNOWLEDGE:
In the Books they left the Sul'dam with A'dam around their necks (and therefor the knowledge that Sul'dam were just very weak channelers, "Damane", and not something completely different), which created havoc in some Seanchan circles. Here both Sul'dam are no longer wearing them. I'm curieus how they will go forward with this in the show.
BALEFIRE (if the term means nothing to you don't go anyfurther)
If Rand used Balefire he might actually given Ishamael what he really longed for.
I think the distinction there is Valda was clear self-defense and defense of Perrin. Renna no longer posed a threat to Egwene, so killing her was a "true" murder. I'm looking forward to the show delving into the long-term psychological effects of that whole thing for Egg.
I'm also curious to see how the change you mentioned in the spoiler section affects the Seanchan, or doesn't.
As for B-F, I've decided it wasn't used there, though still possible Rand did something *based* on it. We didn't get any of the notable effects of B-F, and I just don't see them forgoing the huge stakes those effects bring to the story.
I have read all the books, so I won’t say anything specific, but I did want to share my own show theory regarding Ishy.
So we see the stakes are higher with the forsaken in the show (ex Lanfear being immortal). I think that that may have been a specific “gift” given to her. Ishy would not have wanted or accepted that kind of gift because he wants to permanently die so immortal life would for sure not have been something he would want, nor would it be considered an incentive for him.
Having said that, I DO NOT think Rand did what you think he did. I think we will get what we get in the books with Ishy.
Book spoiler for book 3:
I think Ishy’s body is dead dead like the end of book three and the rest of my theory is spoiler from A crown of swords so I will leave off there.
Anyway, love your reactions and theories and look forward to more from you as you continue to read the books 😁
Thanks for the compliment and for the care not to spoil me! I think you're right, and I think it mirrors what happened with the Caemlyn DF in book one.
Great reaction. Cant wait for season 3😊
Thanks, Thor! The Longing's going to be even harder this time!
Been waiting for your review, RBLT! Got the notification and here I went! LOVED this episode! All 7 times that I've watched it and will watch again and again and again! lol Pacing was quick and clear. Hopper is such a good boy. Rand is still fighting the One Power even when he took out Turak and his men. You could see the surprised look on Rand's face when they all went down (except for Turak's Voice).
*A Couple of Questions and POSSIBLE SPOILERS **_for the show_*
1) I wonder why Nynaeve couldn't channel? Was it because she was connected to her temp Damane when she took that arrow and it disrupted her ability to channel? That's what I'm guessing.
2) Damn! You made me weep with you during the Hopper scene, RBLT! lol I read elsewhere that Hopper's spirit may have gone into Perrin? Could that be what happened when Perrin's eyes turned gold at the same time our Hopper's spirit floated? And it makes it doubly sad to know that all Hopper ever wanted was to fly like an eagle and at death, his spirit was able to.
3) When Mat got his memories back, it appeared that Rand did, too. His words alluded to that when he told Ishamael that he would never follow the Dark One and, in a thousand lifetimes, never have.
4) What does the burned brand in Rand's hand mean for him? He's a Blademaster now?
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ANOTHER WONDERFUL AND FASCINATING REVIEW OF THE WOT!😃
Glad you enjoyed the episode and my reaction! I have a question for *you*. Do you *really* want me to answer questions two and four? 😁
As for question one, the same explanation you came up with hit me later, too. I think being in the sul'damane's (what I'm calling sul'dam who get leashed) head when she died did something to Nynaeve, like a kind of shell shock.
As for question three, I think that was just Rand's deepening connection with his futurepast selves. When you rewatch the season (and even s1) pay close attention to Rand. There are a lot of moments when he's not entirely himself, is all I'll say.
@@reverseBLT I guess I don't. I'll wait for it all to unfold in the upcoming S3 and beyond. I was just babbling out loud and I was just still too emotional about Hopper's passing. It hits me directly in the feelz every time I see it. lol
Thank you so much for yet another amazing review, RBLT. I can't wait for your future reviews of WoT!
@@CatharinaShields So glad you liked them. I'll say now's a good time to read the first two books, if you're thinking of getting into them and don't want to wait until the show's done.
Does the dagger gets activated when Matt weilds it or anyone can?
That's a question we all have at this point, I think. Something that will need an answer in s3.
That was wonderful. Worth the wait
Only took 13 hours and 6 re-edits. LOL
But seriously, I'm glad I eventually got it to work and that the effort's appreciated. You guys are the best!
SPOILERS
Future Problems Established by this episode I see as the most problematic: Rand will now have no insight on how to cleanse the taint, as ishys fire staff never burned through him before fains dagger... The conflict of two evils in his wound is how he got the idea originally. Eaganin never introduced Bayle Domon to Turak as her property... like 13 different problems are caused by this. Grolm are never seen in the Flicker, and then Recognized again in Falme being used by the seanchan which sets up Rands know how with the portal stones in as much as alternate dimensions can be traversed by twisted creatures. Oh and lets not mention the HUGE story collapsing switch of Gaul to Aviendha and an early intro... I cant count the number of problems this causes.
(Edit) I think the Taint Cleanse could be fixed by either Sammael or ISHY 2.0 in Tear, just have the wounding happen out of order.... What I fear is: They cop out, and say since Fains dagger passed through ishys illusion, Aridhols evil picked up some residual taint and thats how both evils got in the wound... and that would piss me off.
There definitely could be some issues because of the changes. That's why I say I reserve judgment on some things until I see how they pay them off, down the line. As you mentioned, one of the things you bring up can be solved by utilizing another character or something. There are even other ways to introduce certain concepts, and others might not have as much narrative utility as they seem. But we'll see. Also, do me a favor and put a spoiler warning on your comment with some lines of space, because that whole thing is just filled with them. LOL Thanks a bunch, bud!
Donal Finn is great as Mat, I was looking forward to watching him slowly level up in heroics as he tried his best to not be a hero. Not sure why the show spent all that character development coin so quickly.
Fair point. I think they're going to use hurting Rand at the end as a knockback moment to make him doubt not that he's a Hero, but that he's worthy of the title. My guess is they'll use his impact on *others* to build him to truly believing he's deserving.
32:35-i don't think he did what you suspect he did. There would have been more going on if he had.
I think so too. None of the knock-on effects appeared to happen. I'm still wondering if it's somehow related, though.
Very very vague spoilers, not ruining anything past TFOH...
I'm fairly certain we didn't see Rand use b---f---. If you look at Rand's actions as a combo of the endings of books 2&3, it makes sense that there would be some both some stabbing and some fire weave burning involved. I think we saw the body crumble to ash because the show has shown us that the Dark One can bring bodies back immediately even when pretty intensely mutilated. I'm guessing we're supposed to assume Rand burnt Ishy inside out with his white hot blade, such that this immediate resurrection thing couldn't be used. If so, that would be a nice continuation of what we saw before with Rand incinerating that Fade at Selene's cabin.
Yeah, I agree it isn't b-f because I expect they'll keep the consequences intact for using it, but I wonder if it's somehow related, especially considering I think Rand tapped into the same *wisdom* that helped him Indiana Jones Turak earlier. A fun little mystery to ponder during the Longing between seasons.
32:42 if you notice, Moirane’s weaves met up with a much larger weave of fire when it made the dragon. Lanfear perhaps?
Interesting idea, and it would make sense. Lanfear could do all that without moving an inch, leaving (almost) no one the wiser.
@@reverseBLTSomething I have mentioned in various outlets for a while is...what happened to the angreal Moiraine had in S1? I think she may still have it.
Oh and btw, did you notice what was still sitting there on the ground behind them on the tower even after the Heroes left? Was it a set mistake or is going to be a thing that replaces another thing? We shall see.
@@Finnssssss 😯I had completely forgotten about that angreal. I think I had assumed it sort of got "used up" in the confrontation, but I guess that shouldn't be possible. Then again, cuendillar also isn't supposed to break, so...
Are you talking about the shield Uno Cain gave Perrin?
@@reverseBLT The shield yes
Wasn't the much larger fire weave from Moiraine's earlier channeling to sink the ships? To me it looked like it came from the ship wrecks and joined the new channeling half way up the tower. And that the second weave gave it the shape of a huge fire dragon.
You know the ironic part of the tower sequence? Spoilers for the books in general ahead:
RJ himself confirmed Rand has turned to the Shadow before, and those Ages ended in stalemates, so Rand is objectively wrong about his certainty.
I threw caution to the wind and finally looked at your comment. Pretty cool bit of information, and it makes sense, though I would have expected a different result.
@@reverseBLT The pattern is balance. My guess? Demandred went back to the Light in those Ages JUST to spite Rand/Lews. It's in character for him to have such hatred he would do something like that.
@@Adanu191He's the epitome of the meme "Well now I'm not doing it." 🤣
I haven't read the books. My favorite parts of the episode were:
1) Mat. He's clever and he's funny, and I like the actor.
2) Lanfear lives! And we got to see her scared shitless, which was a fun new look for her.
I also wondered why there was all the cheering in the streets. With everything the Falm folks have been going through -- conquered by one group of sadistic creeps and then attacked by another group of sadistic creeps -- that seemed off.
To the average people, Whitecloaks are a somewhat holier-than-thou group who get involved with nobles and oppose Aes Sedai. A slightly more informed person will know that they claim to fight for the Light (and I think the best ones do - Geoffram Bornhald, for example).
In Falme, they were actively supporting and recruiting the locals against weird invaders. No wonder the citizens of Falme were cheering for the defeat of the Seanchan.
As much as I liked Barney's performance, I can't help but feel we received a blessing in disguise, when he left the show. Donal just *is* Mat, and I can't imagine anyone else in the role now. I can't wait for you to see some of the developments in store for him. Next season should be *nuts*.
Moghedien's entrance was done so well. Lanfear is *way* stronger, but Moggy laid such a careful trap that Lanfear knew she was completely at her mercy. And the others are free too! One of my favorite details in the scene was how Lanfear looked around as subtly as she could to try and see if any of the others were also there, to see just how screwed she was.
It made sense that a lot of them *would* cheer the proclamation of the Dragon Reborn, but not that *all* of them would. The prophecies, as Mo and some others have pointed out, say the Dragon Reborn will either save the world or break it again, so his return is feared by average people as much as it's hoped for.
(A show only person here) I might have it wrong but what I thought the reason for cheering was the prophecy that the Dragon would come help the people of Falme in their time of need (not word by word, just what it meant). So that big flashy proclamation with the fire dragon banner, and then the defeat of the Seanchan, probably lifted up people's spirits.
@@goldielocks9092 True, Falme's version does talk about the Dragon coming during their hour of need, but I would still expect some of them to be fearful.
I've been processing this for a few days now, and I've decided the way they re-wrote Mat's arc due to the covid/Barny mess actually improved his book arc. I will mourn the loss of the finn from the show if that's the result of this change, but they created a whole arc of Mat really doubting if he was good worrying that he was only destined to hurt those he loves only to then hit him in the face that he's a hero of the horn. What a terrific redemption arc. It really worked for me. The heroes themselves seemed a little sloppy, I was looking for a couple specifically that didn't seem to be in the lineup, but I hope that we get Birgitte.
Birgitte was there, I'm pretty sure. She looked a little different from how I imagined her, but she was there. My main nit to pick with that scene was I wanted to see *more* Heroes. I know there shouldn't be a ton in that scene, but it still felt too small a group.
I agree the lemonade they managed to make from the lemons of Barney's exit improved this part of Mat's arc. I still think we're getting Finn-ishing School, though. It represents some good narrative opportunities and including it keeps Mat having stuff to do.
All what matters is hopper. Sweet hopper.
RIP, goodest of bois.
@@reverseBLT Sorry, I´am overhelmed! The dead from hopper is for me the saddest in the books. The same in the show ... until now. I was weeping, too! Greets from Germany
@@derdochten2111 I almost stopped reading the books when it happened, so I understand completely. Willkommen! 😁
Loving the show!!
Spoilers- ish.
and the thing that we can’t really talk about… I think it will be interesting for people to see … “things”come back, in a different way than they’ve already seen in the show. And even if these things don’t, it could still be cool for the story. I’m down for it lol.
I think Mori-bund things are coming, down the line. 😉
@@reverseBLT nice lol. Indeed. I just finished the books btw and now reading New Spring. I am loving it so far, and it really fills in some of the characters. Let us know when you’ve read that one so we can discuss!! :p
I’m fine with the Turok situation (Rand didn’t have a training arc so that fight would have had no impact or made any sense if Rand won) but the I don’t think they should have showed the dragon at the end, they should have projected the fight in the sky like in the book.
In the book, nobody really knows what a dragon is. They know Rand IS the Dragon but not that it’s also a flying lizard. It’s not until later that old images of traditional Chinese dragons pop up that up and people assume that’s what a dragon is. I think showing a flaming dragon at the end takes away from that little bit of world building.
I guess we can assume that people *do* still know what dragons are, this Turning. I only wanted the fight in the sky if they 100 percent could make it not cheesy *at all* . I kept thinking of how to do it to avoid any feelings of Power Rangers battles, and I just couldn't, so I'm actually glad it was left out. That scene's cheese level could have gutted the growing interest and killed the show instantly.
@@reverseBLTthat is true they would have had to put some serious care into the cgi to make it not look like a “projection”.
The showrunners avoided being featured in mashup videos with the screaming sky cowboys meme. 😂
I doubt the sword attack was Balefire related. More likely, what he saw has something to do with being Forsaken. SPOILER WARNING!
He is yet to be reincarnated as Moridin, so his soul is currently in the care of the Dark One, the Lord of Nothing.
Probably it wasn't. Just where my mind went at first. Also, do me a favor and spoiler warning the Mori bit. I'd rather the show-onlys get surprised by that development. Thanks!
@@reverseBLT Gotcha.
So I guess this is the last time we will see Uno.. next time we see Gaidal Cain he will be fecking Olver !!
It would be hilarious if it's still Guy Roberts, though.
@@reverseBLT LOL !
They rebounded!
Apparently his how what bonding actually looks like! Alanna was right when she said, "Moiraine took your Bond, it wasn't ripped out from you." I thought she just didn't know. Also that Lan just goes with her explanation and doesn't correct her as he doesn't want to admit she is stilled. If Moiraine had said something like "The Bond is gone" , leaving Alanna to assume that Moiraine went with her plan, after that conversation in Tower in S 1, where she says she found a way to release The Bond. But she actually told the truth. Apparently at some point to him too. In the Bonding scene, she says "Do you really want it back?". She is not talking about unmasking, she is talking about giving it back to him. His response: "I never asked for my Bound to be released, nor will I". They said it twice, we just went with our preconceptions about what happened and thought there was something else. I am starting to question my ability to listen and comprehend what I hear... And it's not like I watched this scene just once... I mean... this was pure gold! And not just that. I guess I like to cry on movies... And this episode provided the material for crying. But in the good way!
The music was amazing! People don't say that enough. I loved it.
Don't beat yourself up. The wording is easy to interpret multiple ways. I think nearly all of us thought Mo was just talking about masking the bond. One of my favorite things about fandom is that we can sorta crowdsource our theorizing and analysis to refine our understanding of the things we love!
And yes, they do a very good job wringing emotion from us. The scripts like to go straight for our hearts, and the solid acting and amazing score finish us off. And the best part is shows tend to tighten up more and more as they progress, so s3 should be even better!
The fact that everybody who is positive about the show makes the exact same "another turning of the wheel" argument is sort of the foundation of the dispute.
Basically, if you're happy with an ENTIRELY new story that resembles WoT... great!
I'll always be happy the show was made, happy it created so many more WoT fans AND allowed none readers to enjoy SOME of the story.
Just don't claim that people who want an actual adaptation are wrong or bitter. (which is the CLEAR implication made by show stans :P)
It's literally just wanting different things. You got something you are okay with, and you ignore the initial promise (want a burger? Here's a pizza instead! Some people will happily eat and enjoy the pizza. Some people want the damn burger)
Once you admit that you simply have different expectations it defuses a LOT of the argument.
Some people want an adaptation.
You just want more WoT however it comes.
Those two things are not the same.
And when you invoke "just another turning bro" that is not an argument, it's a concession. It's admitting that you aren't looking for the same thing. Simple.
Also, there are HUGE inconsistencies WITHIN the show... but it's always handwaved or ignored. It was covid. Or not enough episodes. Or the male actors are too shit to be given bigger roles (that one shocked me tbh. I think Daniel Heady has deserved better, Barney was THE standout in season 1 and Donal seems to be doing great. Josha is ALSO fantastic, even with the teen melodrama nonsense of S1. So why exactly have the boys been neglected as badly as they have?)
It's okay to enjoy the show and acknowledge that the writers CONSISTENTLY make mistakes. They retconned a LOT of stuff they did in S1. When you can't write two seasons of TV with EXTREMELY established source material and a rabid fandom of experts to draw from... I think that is a competence issue.
And I see nitpicking from "book fans" about things in the books... so apparently it's appropriate to hold the author to a higher standard for his original works that should conform with that readers PERSONAL idea of what is appropriate... than it is for other book fans to want an adaptation that doesn't change stuff. (Rand beat a swordsmaster in TGH after a year of constant practice with the sword AND LTT slow emerging into his subconscious after channelling the eye of the world? "that's such a cop out! Unearned!" To me, that kind of nitpicking is the toxic kind, bc it ignores a LOT of established elements to just declare something impossible... despite it not actually being impossible and RJ quite clearly writing that Rand's victory was SORT OF a fluke regardless, even with all his preparation and connection to LTT. Rand's focus on the sword, the forms Lan teaches him, and void and the flame his father teaches him... it's ALL foundational to his development. It's ALSO some of the earliest indication of his growing madness)
Just make it all make sense.
If it's okay for fans to say RJ was wrong to do something, why is it TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE for fans to say Rafe did stuff wrong? Why does criticism for the show become SO contentious, when the fandom has argued minutia for blood decades?
The show has done well with the villains.
It is a huge improvement from season one.
But goodness me it bothers me when I see uncritical analysis with clear contempt for more critical viewers. People wanting to have the thing you enjoy be even better aren't actually attacking you or destroying what you like. They want it to be even better! How is that a bad or malicious thing?
I'll say it again:
I think people like the performances, bc the cast has done well. This leads to an assumption that the material they are working with must be great.
Or the set pieces being spectacular. I'm not a magpie, so it really does take more than something shiny to impress :P
If we MUST separate the show from the source material to "give it a chance" why can't the more uncritical "separate their enjoyment from the show" to appreciate some criticism!
I would appreciate it if you didn't lump your frustrations with some other unknown reactors and/or enjoyers of the show in with my reactions. The only way to assume I'm uncritical of the show is not to pay any real attention to my statements during the episodes and especially in the post-show segments. Just as an example, I specifically call out the inconsistency with the dagger between this finale and the s1 finale.
Bookcloaks don't get contempt because they want a more faithful adaptation. They get contempt because of what their often hysterical complaints reveal about what they think makes for a "more faithful" adaptation. Complaints about skin tone, even when the actors *are* consistent with the book descriptions. Complaints about characters who shouldn't yet be all that badass not yet being all that badass. Complaints about the absence or early exit or merging with more important characters of characters who don't really have any actual *narrative* importance. The inability to even, for a second, consider the purpose of a change because of pedantic focus on the exact way something happened in the books. And my absolute favorite complaint that always makes my eyes roll: some version or other of "the guys are being cucked by the strong feeeemales."
Adaptation demands larger changes the larger the difference between media. A book to a show or movie is going to need way more rejiggering than a cartoon to live-action, for instance. We can't utilize things that happen purely inside someone's head in a book nearly as well on screen, for instance, which makes a lot of the flame and void and *early* encroachment of LTT into Rand problematic. Sure, the show could still attempt it, but I've seen enough tries at that to know it *likely* would come off about as cheesy and/or pacing-killing as the battle in the sky would have.
To say this is another Turning isn't a copout or a concession. It's understanding the clear text of the show. From the very first episode's opening monologue from Moiraine, the writers made it blatant they were basing their adaptational changes partially in the canonically cyclical nature of the Wheel's iterations. So many things have been directly pointed out *in the show* to hammer that point home. This isn't meant to be the exact same plot because it *isn't* the same Turning. They would have had to make the same changes anyway, because eight seasons with eight episodes each wouldn't allow for the same plotting with all the same characters and locations, but they chose to lean into it with the in-universe setup they had to allow for changes.
It's also not a copout to accept those unplanned changes that were forced upon the production by Covid. I (and most other reactors/reviewers I've seen who aren't down on the show) don't make concessions for bad editing and FX choices, but allowing for the fact that entire set pieces had to be scrapped and reworked because of Covid, or that Mat's storyline had to be massively reworked because of Barney's departure is simply acknowledging reality.
As I did with Game of Thrones, I will continue to look at every change with an eye to trying to figure out its purpose, and for those things where the purpose isn't immediately clear, I will await payoff before casting judgment. It's entirely possible this series will go off the rails the way GoT did, but, at this point, I don't have much fear of that. And, in the meantime, I will continue to call out bad production elements when I notice them, poor choices once it's clear they were poor, and illogical inconsistencies such as the dagger, which Rafe definitely needs to give an explanation for. But I'm not going to jump to conclusions that a given change is due to laziness or disliking the source material or not knowing what they're doing, just to appear more critical to others.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
So, you get to be self righteous, pick whatever you wish to complain about or allow complaints about AND show open contempt for people who disagree, but the fact other people do the same is why it's okay for you to do it.
Gotcha.
And the boys archs HAVE suffered. Denying that is just straight up lying. For no reason.
You can say it's okay, and that is a matter of opinion (I LIKE female centred stories. I grew up on Buffy and Xena FFS) but to just DENY it? Why?
This isn't some conspiracy theory, it's what Rafe explicitly stated as part of his mission plan... So it just IS a thing.
If you disagree on that, please explain the boys character archs to me from the show.
What have they done? How have the developed? What have the accomplished? We've had two season finale's in a row where Egwene is the entire focus (and there are inconsistencies in that too) It's hardly subtle... And I love Egwene! I just don't see why she needs all of her OWN badass moments, and then a bunch of other characters (Egwene healing Nynaeve in S1? It's literally her main weakness as an Aes Sedai. Woman can barely heal a bruise. Captured by Whitecloaks? She's not rescued by icky men or even by Nynaeve. She pulls herself up by her bootstraps!)
Basically, your entire position boils down to "it's okay when I do it, or if I agree with it... but it's NOT okay for people I disagree with to do it"
You're perfectly okay with liking posts on people criticising the books for things they didn't like or felt were unearned, but you describe people as "bookcloaks" (and you are FULLY fucking aware of the implications there) for suggesting this is a consistent problem within the show. Unearned moments.
Rand being competent with a sword after a year of practice and the ghost of the most competent warrior of the Age of Legends in his mind is "unearned" but Rand channelling multiple weaves to massacre a small army apropos of nothing. Totally cool! (and honestly, I don't think it's that bad. But it is not BETTER)
Also, the whole "it wouldn't translate well for the screen so therefore it should be entirely removed and never mentioned" is just... not a great argument.
I'll say again, if you welcome ONLY criticism that you personally agree with, but attack the character of people whose criticisms you don't agree with... I'd suggest that is a you problem.
Perhaps you can be a "Showfriend"
@@reverseBLT
@@DmGray It's about focus. The early part of Rand's arc is about his reluctance to accept that he is the Dragon, with all that entails. The show is focusing on that, which is why they had him run away (which he also does in the books) and why they did the little mini-arc about standing up to face things on his feet. That wasn't about facing evil. It was about facing *destiny*, accepting his role, as Lan put it, to protect the world, not just his friends.
As for the additional training Rand received, the only bit of it that would help him *win* against an actual, experienced blademaster, is the LTT skills and the extra time spent in alts. Tell me, how would you convey all that on-screen in *this* part of the story, without taking away from the thematic elements most important about this part of Rand's journey, and without taking away a ton of room for any other character's development?
Egg healing Nynaeve is something I chalk up to desperation. It's not like we never get examples of characters doing crazy stuff with the OP without really knowing how they did it, usually as a one-off. Doesn't break the character, and didn't seem particularly badass, either. And, once again, different Turning (which I know you hate, but whatever; it is literally what it is) means not all the exact same weaknesses. Nynaeve remains the Healing powerhouse, but it doesn't mean Egwene has to be incompetent at it, this time around.
We all have cutoffs for what we consider legitimate criticism. Criticize a story for inconsistency, failing to develop themes or characters, betraying character traits established in the narrative without cause, etc. Criticize a production for poor execution of elements within their control. Criticize actors for bad choices. All fine. But yeah, "criticizing" something simply for not scratching your particular itch isn't what I consider legitimate. It's still perfectly fine to say you don't like it, but it seems a stretch to try and back that subjective distaste with attempts at objectively demonstrating something's a bad adaptation. An adaptation is successful if it translates the *story* to a different medium, not the plot, and the show's still doing that.
I strongly disagree with your last sentence, even though the rest was a much better argument.
I only raised the (lack of) swordfight bc I saw it in your comments from somebody saying this was a complaint they had in the books. Despite there CLEARLY being an explanation IN the books. They suggested that change was an improvement. I disagree.
It might be NECESSARY for the medium (or at least with the prior choices in writing, painting themselves into a corner) but it's not BETTER.
If people just say "rule of cool" and move on, I'm less disagreeable. It's people who make dumb, inconsistent or convenient arguments that bother me.
And "Showfriends" do that all too often. Today somebody's argument featured the line "Rafe is fixing RJs misogyny" and THAT is the crap that us "bookcloaks" have to deal with. Constantly.
I'll also point out that while the turning of the wheel is infinite, it's fairly directly stated that each turn is different. As in the souls are the same, but the body's they inhabit are not. So, not the same names. Consider also that several characters are literally seared permanently from the pattern by balefire, and RJ leaves to mystery what that actually does (though fairly well implying that it is not actually annihilation)
So, the "another turning" has ALWAYS been more a playful excuse rather than an ACTUAL argument with any in world merit (it has no in world merit :P It's JUST a fun rhetorical device)
As an ADAPTATION is has ALREADY failed SO BADLY that they abandoned the term themselves.
It's now "inspired by"
Think of it more like the Resident Evil movies (which I enjoyed btw, but I know fans of the games who hate them bc they're NOTHING to do with the games... to which my answer was always "obviously" not "it's just another turning of the zombies bro" or "adaptation requires changing everything!")
Either the show is separate and different (a stronger argument, but frustrating for anyone seeking an actual adaptation) OR it an adaptation... in which case there are FAR fewer excuses for all of the changes (and if you buy "the script had to change bc Barney left" I have a bridge to sell you. If they couldn't within a single episode get Matt to where they wanted him with Donal... they're incompetent. They could have just PUT him there and not talked about it. Like all the other stuff they ignored :P)
And also the whole "where would they find the time?!" argument will ALWAYS fall flat considering how slow the start of the season was. They waste a LOT of time on plots and characters that go nowhere, but devoting SOME time to the series protagonist would be... bad? Take away from other people?
So, giving RAND some screen time and character development would "take away" from others... but you argue that NOTHING has been "taken from the boys" due to the focus on the girls archs? Liandin had more character development than ANY of the boys... (actress did an amazing job too. I don't even hate it as a creative choice. But again: accept reality. If giving screen time to character development takes it from others... you've just made the "cucked" argument you mentioned earlier. The boys have been cucked by female characters, by your OWN definition of how that works :P)
The alternative is you could just admit... Rafe has kinda been doing Rand dirty. To the point of having a character SPECIFICALLY declare that it would be easier if the Dragon were a girl (cut to Egwene) so the show runners are self aware on this ;)
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@@DmGrayLeveling up in ability isn't character development. It's skill development. Rand turning from reluctance to accepting fully what he is and what it means for his life, going forward, is character development. If Rule of Cool were the prevailing philosophy under which the show was working, it would have started with EotW's prologue and included fire swords already. Probably jumped straight ahead to balefire.
I see the Wheel as inevitably churning near-identical people and scenarios back out, given enough iterations. While I know it wasn't stated outright, it seems to function like a procedural generation program with specific parameters for setting and story, making it inevitable there would be repeats. That's a change in function that doesn't break anything, unless you put rule minutiae above storytelling.
And it's undeniable that it would be easier for the Tower if the Dragon had been a girl. Given Egwene's amicable attitude toward the Tower, even more so, had it been her. Pointing that out only makes sense, particularly given the character who said that line.
That you think the show could have just gotten everything back to where it needed to be for Mat with a single episode is odd. I almost want you to write a script now, showing me how you would satisfyingly accomplish that.
And they have devoted plenty of time to Rand. You just didn't like what they had him do in that time. If all you want is to see the protag being OP and smiting the bad guys with big-dick Super-Saiyan energy, there are tons of shonen anime programs that would scratch that itch. And while I also enjoy a good DBZ battle, I find it gets boring and repetitive, after a while. I'm more interested in Rand's journey as a reluctant savior than in constant examples of how he's the most powerful being in existence.
I'm subscribed, yet haven't heard from you in ages.
Hm, I wonder if CZcams's notifications are bugged out again.
So i dont think the ending removed someone from the board it was the book 2 and 3 situation combined
Which would be deeply ironic, especially as it reflected a certain scene in the first book concerning the fate of a DF Rand encounters in Caemlyn.
@reverseBLT I don't think the dagger was involved though if I get your point that is.
Spoilers up to book 3
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Rand kills ishy with a heated power blade and the a callandor again probably with a fire weave or something from his past. Or are you referring to another character?
@reverseBLT also I don't think there was any fire of a special variety involved 🤔
@@GhaithHachem Spoilers for book one:
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I'm referring to the wealthy DF who gets badly burned by Rand when he creates lightning, then gets "rewarded" by Ishamael as Ba'alzamon. Rand sees him with Ishy as a crispy shadow of the man he had been. Ishy says the fact that he identified Rand for him deserves a reward, then the man basically turns to ash, but right before he does, his look of joy suddenly changes to a look of shock "as if he had seen something he hadn't expected." In that instance, it was someone expecting eternal life realizing he wasn't going to get it, or at least not how he thought. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
Spoilers for book seven and beyond:
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In Ishy's case, we have an inversion. He thought he had finally been freed from the Wheel, only for the DO to say nope and hit the Respawn button.
OK yes good point forgot that. For the record I don't think Death will be skipped here. Or to put it in other words I will be very surprised if the show decides to skip that plot. Also I don't remember which book you are on so I'm trying to be dodgy. I had in mind book 5 but you are quoting 7 here 😁
21:11 and a sassy bob 💁🏽♀️
Most expensive styling appointment ever. 😂
@@reverseBLT taking me right back to my mum cutting my hair in the kitchen #childhoodtrauma 😂
@@inkumbinkumdinkumdoo 🫢Oh no! 😂
I never read the books so I don’t know, but I get major romantic vibes from Mat towards Rand, but it’s unrequited. Does anybody else has this impression?
Really close friends can seem like they're romantically into one another, even when they're not, regardless of where their orientation may fall. People thought my best friend and I were a couple for years. It actually kept women from approaching us because they didn't want to mess up our nonexistent romantic relationship. 🤣
The ending was a nice callback to Perrin's letter at the beginning of the season about shields and how you're stronger when defending each other.
I forget who on Twitter posted it, but there's a really cool analysis of how Perrin's letter at the beginning of the season pretty much sets up exactly what happens in the finale. So cool!
all i know is they better be saving all their skipped scene money for Maradon and Chapter 37
Sounds like stuff past where I've read, but I think I know about *some* parts of it, and my guess is they'll push for some budget increases for those sequences.
@@reverseBLT without spoilers I can say chapter 37, could easily be season 7, I wanna say that single chapter is longer than Harry Potter The Philosophers Stone. I want to say its between 85,000-110,000 words... honestly though for me it flew by far to quickly, I had ending melancholy like I had never had before or since, and wish I could 10 second Tom the whole series , and read it as the first time, every time... Although I have to be honest and say of the 20 or so times I have read it starting in 1991... every time I see something new.
@@reverseBLT Also THANK YOU FOR YOUR TEARS, please never let any pain harden your heart, or cause you to conceal your empathy. Always feed and exercise your child heart. None of us live more than 12-13 decades, It is foolish to believe that one could ever be anything more than what we were born to be. Foolish to believe we could ever be fully wise, or supremely intelligent, the best we can hope for in this lifespan is to learn the beginning of true love, kindness, and peace.
Sorry for the late reply. CZcams's comments system makes it easy to miss replies to comments. But I wanted to say thanks for the affirming words. I think the key is not to be disappointed that we can't reach every lofty goal we might set for ourselves, but to reach for them anyway, even knowing most of them are beyond our grasp. Wishing you the best. 🫂
I wasn't sure how I felt about it after finishing the episode. I feel like the 2 big fights I was looking forward to were incredibly anticlimactic (1 of them, against Turak, being completely cut out), but its growing on me as I'm thinking about it.
Yeah. But given how they eliminated any training montages between Rand and Lan they really had no way to undergird his skill with his father’s sword.
They really also had no explanation for how he went with the Indiana Jones alternative because he hasn’t really been training in the power or teaching himself.
I’m just going to go with what BLT suggested that Lews Therin is getting loose unannounced to everyone.
I’ve found the show much more enjoyable once I set aside the books and my brain.
Thankfully the actors are making up for a lot of the poor plotting. Shrug.
Just having fun with it now.
@@HablaCarnage63 It's 100 percent LTT. Josha's performance and the FX fully support that. This is one area though where the show is probably being too subtle for the show-onlys to pick up on it, while it's happening, making it seem like a plot hole.
As for not getting the Turak fight, honestly, I'm happy it was changed. Even with the Lan training, it never sat right with me that a few months with a Warder, even the best Warder, could bridge the skill gap between a farmboy and a blademaster.
The one thing I wish had been *more* was the Heroes sequence. I liked it, but would have liked to have seen maybe three times that many Heroes.
@@reverseBLT Yes a long bow or staff would have made more sense than a heron-mark blade given the boys’ lifetime exposure to them.
Perhaps that’s why the named sword forms in the book held my interest so much. A ritualized language of violence common to all swordsmen in the world that Jordan built.
In the books, I recall Rand barely holding his own against Turok. Which is why LTT as a voice in his head should been worked in and then just took over in frustration once Rand reached the limit of his current skill.
The problem with the easy button is that Rand would not enter such a situation without knowing the outcome and ought to have relied on the stealth of the hunter.
But yes on the second watch the Indy moment was quite funny.
I know what you mean, the sequence I think should have been edited and rearranged to work better... Nyneave and Elayne should have joined Egene in holding off the shield, instead of all of them acting and looking lame as if they were not all about to get killed, the focus was on the wrong priority ... and once Moirane freed Rand from his shield He should have gathered all of his strength to walk to Ishamael and face him and after defeating him Rand should collapse after using the last ounce of his strength and get healed ... this way Egwene would not look like someone as strong as one of the forsaken and Rand would get more focus ...
@@HablaCarnage63 True, Rand does barely win, and I think it did come down to Other Memory giving him an edge at a crucial moment. I think the show's trying to avoid inner monologue entirely (or dialogue, in this case), so they jumped ahead to a version of the outcome that still relied on LTT.
Problem is the show-onlys might not get why that was able to happen. I'm assuming s3 will incorporate LTT more, and use some subtle tricks to show the increasing encroachment of those memories.
I like that as a book fan you understand this is another turning of the wheel. ive been reading these books for 32 years and understand this completely and love the show. Very happy to see it on screen and get suprised here and there, if it was exactly like the books there wouldnt be those oh ohoh moment as much. I sick of people tearing down the show and rafe. just be happy with what we have to watch. Cant wait to see who they cast for Kamarile Nindar
Thanks for the comment! I've always been a story over plot guy, and I love getting surprised by an adaptation, so that probably helps. There are still some nits I'll pick, and some things I'm waiting to see the payoff for, but that would be the same for any story. I hope more and more readers find it in them to adopt a similar approach so they can enjoy this show!
Thank you for another great reaction video. I know some book readers are upset we did not get Rand vs Turok sword fight but as I mentioned before unless the show pulled some sort of past memories stunt I can't see how at this point Rand would be able to take a blademaster with a sword. Non book readers may not have noticed this but the weave Rand used to take out Turok and the guards looked actually quite complex. We have only ever seen Moiraine or Egwene do one thing at a time. Rand fashioned multiple arrows of fire at the same time which is a nice nod to the book readers and some of the things early Rand pulls off. When Ishamael is trying to batter down Egwene's shield and sees the others start to arrive it looks like he uses the same weave or effect.
Kidos for explaining how Moiraine got around the Three Oaths when she attacked the damane. I tried to rationalise it as her justifying it as if the Dragon fails the world ends hence her life being in danger. I figured the blue sitter/now damane used a similar work around to throw fireballs from the tower on the basis that if she didn't the sul'dam would kill her. It makes more sense that Moiraine was just making some cosmetic if unfortunately explosive changes to the ships.
As someone who was essentially raised to be a pathological truthteller, I'm naturally quite good at Aes Sedai thinking. 😅
I'm hoping the show-onlys are noticing the subtle ways the show's hinting at stuff with how Rand uses the Power.
I know the Grey Ajah are the mediators and lawyers of the White Tower but I got the sense in the books that part of a novice/accepted training is some legal lessons. There is nothing like being legally trained to give one an ability to come up with arguments to justify a particular course of action. It does not have to stand up in a court of law as long as the Aes Sedai convinces herself and she then has a work around the Three Oaths.
On the issue of Rand's growing competence with the one power I saw an interview with the actor who plays Rand. He was asked when will we see Rand being super powerful. He said he could not spoil anything but he had a super big grin on his face and answered quickly to wait for season 3. Roseamund Pike was with him and also chipped in about season 3. While I did not see the interview personally I did come across a comment from someone who said the show runner had said they focused on the Three Rivers gang plus Elaine atop the tower near the end as a way of indicating a narrative shift for future seasons with there being more focus on that group driving the story. If we see more of Rand and he starts pulling off things he does in book 4 you could easily have a comment from Moiraine about his channelling is getting better and will continue to do so the more he practices. Plus season 3 really drove home the need Rand has to get a teacher, especially the way Siaun handled him. Who knows, maybe he will do something on that front. @@reverseBLT
@@dominicbrennan1882I admire the way you avoided dropping spoilers. 😄
I think we're past Rand's reluctance to answer the call now, and we're going to see *much* bigger, flashier displays of power from him in s3, especially considering the copious evidence of other influence in this season. Rafe also said recently that s3 is going to focus heavily on the Forsaken, and will have a lot of big battles and such, so yeah, Rand's going to have some big moments. Also the stuff in 3FL...
Maybe Rand will have *two* teachers? Even three? 😁
I'm so glad the did the S2 Finale justice after the screwed up 1 so much in terms of quality. Now I can't wait for S3. I didn't care much for S2 after 1.
I think season 2 was better then 1 by a wide margin. That said I think the final episode failed on many levels; it again became a Rafe Fan-Fic for Egwene; for Rafe Egwene is the most important character and Rand is just sort of her support, not really all that important.
@@LordMaskinyou are not wrong, but Rafe is going to have a rough time keeping Rand in the background going forward. If you ask 10 bookreaders who their favorit character is. You probably get all the main characters. Mat is mine, so I would have Made Mat the lead going into this. I liked season 2 alot😊 not perfect because my favorit is not done like I would have vished
After the issues S1 had Rafe said they had to rewrite S2 because they couldn't tell the story they way he wanted due to having to recast Mat's actor. He stated because of this he leaned into showing their individual stories to get the main story back in line.
@@LordMaskinEgwene's damane plotline is *extremely* interesting, so giving that a satisfying and empowering conclusion was a smart decision. Other than that, the only thing Egg did was struggle to maintain a shield against a Forsaken. The show made it quite clear she wasn't going to win that one.
Rand, meanwhile, finally rose to his feet while shielded, completing a mini-arc that maybe was too subtle. Then, once unshielded, effortlessly tanked what Egwene was struggling to barely hold back, then straight-up killed the mightiest of the Dark One's generals. It doesn't need to be flashy to be powerful.
@@reverseBLT I agree Egwene barely held the shield she even said sorry to Rand clearly indicating she would not hold it for much longer ... but Perrin saved the day with a magic shield from the age of legends ... people seem to exaggerate for some reason Egwenes stands off against Ishamael as if she was kicking his arse when she was clearly fighting a losing game, and only kept them alive!
Hopper getting got legit made me shout at the TV (Along with Egwene’s braid chop) - Justice for Hopper I hope Alias cooks Daims assssssssssss next season.
I hope it's Perrin who cooks his ass. #JusticeForHopper #GoodestOfBois
@@reverseBLT #GoodestofBois 🥺🥺🥺Omg 😭😭😭😭
Why doesn’t Rand go mad in the books?
I just saw your other comment saying you haven't read the books, so I'm editing my response a bit.
Spoiler Alert through at least book 5, "The Fires of Heaven"
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at the point I'm at, which is Fires of Heaven, I would say he's well on his way, but he's got a lot of help to slow things down a bit.
In the books, the fact that Mat, Perrin and Rand are all ta'veren causes the pattern to create many coincidences for them. Unfortunately on TV, we just refer to this as plot armor and isn't uncommon.
You've probably hit on why a lot of watchers don't realize there's something special about the stuff that happens to and around these guys. TV often just treats characters as if they're ta'veren *anyway*. LOL They'll have to make some things more on the nose and maybe even have some characters call them out, next season, just to make the ta'veren luck clear as a thing.
@@reverseBLT Mat has a lot of good ta'veren moments in the books. I sincerely hope they capture some of them for the show.
I really want to see the ironic dice frustration scene with him, and Rand causing spontaneous whole-village weddings. LOL
@reverseBLT or people falling 50ft from a tower without injury while someone else trips over a tree root and breaks their neck.
@@reverseBLT there was really a sense in the books at various points that reality was in danger of unraveling
Justice for Hopper😢
Meted out swiftly by Perrin, with significant consequences, unfortunately.
Blt: Rafe, how did Loial survive getting stabbed by the dagger?
Rafe: No he didn't. Nobody got stabbed by the dagger in the season 1 finale.
BLT: Yes he did.
Rafe: shhhhhhhhhhhhhh. no. He. Didn't.
Rafe actually said Loial has a scar . . . But it can only be seen if he's shirtless.
I like the one theory floating around that the dagger doesn't just Do the Thing for everyone in this Turning, which is perfectly fine and a good explanation, but I need the show to say it, dang it!
@@reverseBLT Totally get that. I think that's why we had the Turok scene play out differently too because the sword practice had to be cut, it wouldn't make much sense for him to beat a blademaster without being taught. I believe we may have a lot explained in S3, and of course more questions 🤣.
@@crystalolson1980 people would have been more mad if Rand did beat him with 0 training 😂😂
@@Ventus777777 excatly I think that's why we got the weave that has been theorized to have been from past life memory.
Great reaction! I feel much the same, lots of changes but they're all to serve the story, it's just some things need condensing and some things need to be merged, some things need to be reworked, but that's what happens when you're maybe given up to 8 seasons with only 8 episodes each, all to cover 15 books.
RE: Moiraine channeling at the boats, I took it al her defending a fellow Aes Sedai, since Rand is Lews Therin reborn, and Lews was an Aes Sedai. But her targeting the boats would be a loophole for sure!
Glad you liked the reaction and that you're open-minded about the needs of adapting a book series into a visual medium.
I'll be honest, while I really enjoyed this season as a whole....I did not like this episode, Bookborn's season 2 review almost perfectly encapsulates the issues I had as a whole.
Spoiler warning of course, but to name a few, starting with how Perrin and Nynaeve got completely dropped from the plot for the entire 2nd half of the season, and this episode is just the worst example.
Rand slow walking up to Ishamael and killing him without any attempt to defend himself makes absolutely no sense, at least have an actual fight! Also, it should take a lot more to kill the strongest of the Forsaken than a single fiery stab wound.
Moiraine kinda broke the three Oaths when destroying the ships....
Egwene shouldnt have really been able to put the collar on Renna due to the show's established rules that you absolutely cannot do anything with harmful intent to your Sul'Dam. I'd say the collar definitely counts.
All these things just really dragged the episode down for me, I give it a 5/10 and i feel like thats a but too generous some days. I hope that the show can finally write a finale that sticks the landing, so far the track record has not been great.
Thanks for the comment. I think you raise some valid points. We've been talking a lot about several of them here and on Twitter, so I'll offer some thoughts.
Mo loopholed the heck out of those boats, in my opinion. Notice she only struck their hulls. Any Seanchan who died did so only because they weren't strong swimmers. LOL
I think what Egg did is another loophole kind of thing, because it depends, just like the Three Oaths, on how the individual is interpreting things at that moment. Nothing a damane views as a weapon can be touched. You can't *hurt* your sul'dam. Is an a'dam a weapon? Is collaring *hurting* someone? It causes no direct harm, no pain unless you make it do so or the collared attacks you. All Egwene had to do was think of the a'dam as something that would protect her and not hurt Renna unless Renna chose to hurt herself.
More Perrin and Nynaeve wouldn't have been useful to their stories. We already got what we need at this point about the wolf bond, and enough with Hopper for even the show-onlys to be deeply hurt by his death. We already got what we needed for Nynaeve. Extra scenes with either would probably have felt a bit like running in place.
As for Rand, spoiler warning for elements up to book three.
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I think Rand was in a bit of a back seat position when he killed Ishamael. Josha does this interesting thing with his face that I think is meant to reflect when Lews Therin has taken over, and he looked that way from the moment he stood back up, unshielded. His weaves were also much more precise, from that point. I think everything from then to when he asked Ishy what he was seeing was more LTT than Rand. Also, considering Ishy disintegrated, I think there was more going on with the fiery stab wound than just fiery stabbing. It's why I initially suspected a Balefire element. I no longer think he got BFed, but there was more going on with that sword than just heat.
@@reverseBLT I've read the first 3 books, and while I do think a fight in the sky would have been silly or at least difficult to do correctly, I expected some sort of final confrontation and instead it felt like an Avengers assemble moment from the MCU.
I stand by my criticisms regardless of loopholes, but I do appreciate the discourse.
That said, I did enjoy Mats blowing of the horn, the whitecloaks. Lanfears been my favorite of the entire season, her relationship with Rand was spot on and was just as creepy and predatory as it should be. Egwene and Rena, despite my confusion on how she was able to collar her, was the highlight of the episode. Overall, there were some things I really liked but my issues and criticisms just make it impossible for me to say it was a good episode, in my opinion. I will continue watching and still have hope because overall it was a fantastic season, much much better than season 1.
@@earendilthemariner4691 Thanks for the convo. Here's to an even better s3!
Hopper in tje nooks is a girl.
Not true, though, if it were, Hopper would be the goodest of gurlz, and it would still hurt just as bad. 😭
I’ll try not to be a jerk, and I’ve read the first 6 books plus watched Daniel Greenes channel to get his summaries of each book to remind myself and all I will say as far as book vs show is that this battle is way more epic and this seemed very CW. Even the Witcher season 3s last 2 episodes seemed more epic than this. Obviously most of the commenters on this channel will disagree. So let me stick to the show. The show has said more than once that Rand being the Dragon Reborn makes him the most powerful channeler, but it hasn’t showed that at all. The scene with him killing Turock and the others was cool but Egwene and Moraine have way more amazing displays of power than that. In 2 seasons he’s done barely anything. Of course the lovers of the show will say but they’ve been trained and have experience. That’s a good excuse but you still want to show not just say he’s the most powerful. You could have him just have emotional outbursts of power. Like he breaks free from the hold on him with a burst of power. Then destroys Ishy in a similar way. Instead they have all his friends constantly having to help him because he can’t do anything by himself. Then instead of him having the big battle in the sky where everyone see’s him win and see him as the Dragon Reborn, Moraine has to do something to show them. This isn’t good storytelling and very frustrating. He barely even has a relationship with Lan which is importing in the books. But forget that. Just as the show, your Chosen character has shown us next to nothing in 2 seasons. Egwene and Moraine are the real stars. Nynaeve is ok. Lan is ok. Perrin was pathetic and got a little better. I was very disappointed. If you watch Bookborn or Daniel Greene you’ll get balanced takes from people who want to like the show but just can’t love it because of a lot of weak storytelling. And even most of the fights seem very choppy in this episode. Like there where better ones in earlier episodes
@@duckfist except they’re not just looking to be negative. I’m not talking about Shadiversity. I’m talking about people who know how to describe good vs bad writing. It’s why Daniel Green gets guys like Joe Ambercrombie and Brandon Sanderson on his show and has actually been invited to watch the finale and give a reaction with Brandon (who wrote the last book in the series in case you don’t know). And I was hoping to like it myself. Just can’t ignore when things don’t make sense. I just wanna watch a good fantasy series. I enjoyed Witcher season 1 & 2. Not so much 3. Loved House of the Dragon. It’s just disappointing when there’s so much potential but you get CW level writing. It doesn’t need to be a chapter by chapter adaptation. But it can be great
I'll admit Daniel is better balanced than a lot of other people looking at the show critically. I haven't seen his recent analysis because I think he spoiled me on something a while back, but what I'll say, just from my own perspective, is that Rand seeming underpowered is down mainly to two things. First is that we've become a bit too used to large, flashy displays of power, so the objectively impressive things Rand does are seen as weak. Second is that Rand is a *reluctant* hero and the show has chosen, at least thus far, to focus on that. He doesn't want his powers. He doesn't want to be the Dragon. He just wants to be a simple sheepherder raising a family and watching the sun rise and set each day. I'll add that the show probably also wants to draw a direct link between Rand's more devastating uses of the Power and the ever-present danger of the Madness, which is why they're hinting at the fact that LTT is driving the moments when Rand does wield the Power really effectively.
This is such a poor version of Robert Jordan’s great work. Rafe stop destroying my favourite fantasy series.
Worst fan fiction ever.
Did you comment this on another reaction of mine? Feels familiar.