$1500...down the DRAIN?? (Nissan Alternator Saga -Part 1)
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- čas přidán 12. 01. 2023
- Deja Vu?
Owner of this 2010 Nissan Maxima recently had a charging system problem.
Classic parts cannon: new DEALER alternator and a battery.
Problem came back a DAY later!
Hey let's throw ANOTHER ALTERNATOR in it! Lasted about 1 HOUR...
Customer is $1500 deep, car is still BROKEN, and dealer says there is a "Problem in the WIRING HARNESS"?? Sound familiar?
OK let's diagnose this Nissan from scratch and see what the REAL issue is.
This is some crazy stuff...
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Enjoy!
Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I spent 1500 on marriage counseling. Still ended in divorce. 🤣🤣
You're not the first one and you won't be the last one 😂 Now you're happy for the rest of your life 🍻🍻🍻 🥳🥳🥳
Stop drinking
The only reason divorces are so expensive is because they're worth it.
@@donmunro144 👌🤣
A shovel is only $40, and digging a 6ft deep hole is free!!!
While waiting for some liquid electrical tape to dry I looked at the service manual for my 2013 Infiniti, which has a VQ37 series engine. That's the successor to the VQ35 engine in the Maxima in the video. Based on the description in the service manual, the charging system on my Infiniti is very similar or perhaps even identical to the one in that Maxima. For the comments below, I will assume that the Maxima behaves the same way as my Infiniti.
I found a few interesting pieces of information that I'll put in here, in case anyone else is chasing a similary problem on a Nissan with this type of smart charging system.
1. The diagnostic work flow for the alternator starts with a "preliminary inspection" of the charging system, which includes checking the battery terminal fit, relevant fuses, alternator ground harness (E) connection, and drive belt tension. I think it's safe to assume that Ivan performed these checks. (Some of them off camera.)
2. Step 2 is to disable the smart charging system. It provides 2 ways to do that, one is setting the alternator duty PID to 0% via a bidirectional control in the scan tool, while the other is to disconnect the battery current sensor connector (after turning off the ignition, of course).
FWIW, I think it makes sense to check the alternator with the smart charging system disabled. If you find a problem, then it needs to be taken care of before worrying about the smart charging system.
I think everything in the video was done with the smart charging system off, which would explain why Ivan never saw a PWM signal on pin 4 at the alternator.
We saw in the scan tool that the alternator duty pid was at 0%. According to the service info: "When the [ALTERNATOR] DUTY value is 0 or 100 %, the normal power generation is performed according to the characteristic of the IC voltage regulator of the alternator." Since we saw in scan data that the duty value was at 0%, it would be normal for the intelligent charging function to be turned off.
Of course we don't know why the alternator duty value was at 0%. That is an important question, but it doesn't stop further diagnosis of the charging system without the smart control function. See point number 5 below for a possible reason that the smart charging system is off.
3. The diagnostic tree in the service info implies that a failure on the battery lamp circuit can prevent the alternator from charging, although it doesn't give any details. If that is true, then it is very important information, because we saw that the battery light was not on, even when the charging voltage was 10.7 V. Is that a clue as to the root cause of the charging sytem failure? That's an open question.
In any case, I would be interested to see what is going on at pin 2 on the alternator. If the alternator is intermittently not grounding pin 2 when the voltage is low, then why not? I there a failure inside the alternator or an intermittent failure of the external alternator ground, which would, of course, also prevent the alternator from charging the battery? Maybe put a scope on pin 2 to see whether the alternator is commanding the battery light on, and another lead of the scope on the alternator case, to see if there is a good ground there at all times, or if there an excessive voltage drop relative to the ground at the battery?
If the alternator is commanding the charging light on, but the lamp is not illuminating, then there must be an intermittent problem somewhere else in the lamp circuit that IMO should be fixed before going on with further testing of the alternator and charging system.
4. The second battery feed via the 10-amp fuse that is connected to pin 3 at the alternator is the sense wire used by the alternator's internal voltage regulator to know what voltage the alternator is outputting. This is separate from the smart charging system that is external to the alternator.
Note that this internal voltage regulator is used by the alternator to decide whether to turn on the battery light on the dash, so a problem with the voltage regulator could also explain why that warning light is not always on when the voltage is low.
According to service data, the alternator's internal voltage regulation system is controlled by a CPU that will regulate the alternator output at 14.1 - 14.7 volts when the smart charging system is disabled, based on the voltage it sees on the sense wire (pin 3). (This would be the default strategy that Ivan talked about in the video.)
5. There is a note in the service data that says, "Adjustment range of power generation voltage variable control is 11.4 - 15.6 V." ("Power generation voltage variable control" is Nissan's name for the smart charging system on these vehicles.) I'm not sure if that only means that the smart charging system will try to maintain 11.4 - 15.6 volts, or that it will actually be disabled if the voltage gets outside of that range.
One way to test that, would be to use the Topdon battery maintainer to hold the system voltage at various values inside and outside of the 11.4 - 15.6 volts range while watching for activity on the command wire on pin 4.
I'm sure that the liquid electrical tape is good and dry by now, so back to my own tasks.
I hope this information is helpful.
Great info, thank you!
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics you are very welcome.
Thanks for all your great videos. I have learned a ton from you and your colleagues on CZcams.
Let me know if you need any more info that might be in that service manual.
👍
3. The diagnostic tree in the service info implies that a failure on the battery lamp circuit can prevent the alternator from charging, although it doesn't give any details. If that is true, then it is very important information, because we saw that the battery light was not on, even when the charging voltage was 10.7 V. Is that a clue as to the root cause of the charging sytem failure? That's an open question. VERY interesting piece of info., i was trying to figure out why the light WASNT on if the alternator wasn't charging??
@@zxtenn That is a common feature of charging systems in most cars with a light. The bulb circuit forms part of the feedback circuit on them. When the system is charging the bulb sees 12 volts on both legs of the bulb. One side from the fuse and the other from the alternator. If the alternator stops producing power it becomes a ground path and the bulb lights. In this case they put an LED in there instead of a normal bulb, because the LED takes less current to operate and it acts as a one way current path the alternator has to be fully dead to turn it on, any current flow at all will turn the LED off. The bulbs on the other hand being a pure resistive load without any diode activity will light up based on the voltage difference. That is when you get a dim charge light in the older systems.
When I worked at a Nissan dealer we replaced many alternators under a recall on Maximas (pre 2010). Nissan said to discharge AC and remove compressor. We just unbolted them from the engine and let them hang from the hoses. Job took about an hour.
its always a good idea to volt drop all wiring and grounds under load and i'd fix that plug before i stuffed an alternator on.
A sense of Déjà-vu! Smart charging to make things worse (and more expensive). I'm wondering why you don't have a PWM signal - is the IPDM faulty? Could it kill the alternator? Even for a poor quality reman, 24h is a little too short of a lifespan. Or is it another poor connection somewhere confusing the "smart" system? Part 2 is now mandatory watch 🙂
Thinking the same thing.
Yes Ivam didn’t show the PWM on the blue channel
Smart charging is not smart. It’s simply the way it should be for the longest battery life.
The old, non smart way was just a best guess/effort, but now, if you are an engineer, do explain how this can be done any better!?
Aftermarket alternators and butchered connector classic. I’ve seen way too many of these maximas come into my dealership with new alternators and charging issues. I always sell the pigtail with the alternator. Pins are usually good the connector body just crumbles from all the heat. Just a little tip when testing if it’s a smart charge issue or alt issue. Pull the 10 amp fuse for the alternator from the ipdm. The system will default and should charge at 14.3. If not 9 out of 10 times the alternator is junk.
Good fuse tip!
Dam that's some good info on the pulling of the 10 amp fuse , thanks for sharing , you relieved a lot of stress off of my alternator issue.
If you remove the upper rad hose, the fans and move the o2 sensor and perhaps loosen dipstick tube you can get the alternator out from the top... not a fun job but I've done a few of those and NEVER removed the compressor
Absolutely correct, pulling that alternator from the passenger wheel well is much more time & a PITA!
I'll Show you how to do it without disconnecting a single hose 😉
Rad fan shroud move and hang from there you have plenty of room without having to remove hose, nissan v6 cooling system is one of most difficult to burb/bleed air out for me.
Belt tensioner and alt can drop from bottom is much easier
I just did a three alternators on a 15 Nissan quest two aftermarket both quit within the first day, finally got one from the dealer it’s been good for a week so far from what I remember the service information said the alternator was supposed to put out 6.5 V on the control wire and the IP DM should have a square wave grounding the signal. If you could go into some explanation on your second video on this would be appreciated. Hope you have a great day.
If that's true, and the alternator is not putting out the 6.5V, it might explain why the ECU is showing a 0% alternator load on the scan tool. Maybe the IPDM is telling the ECM that it doesn't see that voltage?
pre 2000 maxima was such a good car.
I sure miss the old days when cars were easier to fix and I could do repairs. I'm in my 70's so factor in the cars I worked on🤔
I have said this before, but this is why I have held on to my 1996 Nissan maxima, got it senior year in high school, 2005. It’s the loaded version, power everything including moon roof, leather seats. The works.
And it all still works just fine, even the original factory alternator and A/C. Ever since Renault bought out Nissan in 2000, their quality has taken a major hit.
Great content Ivan.
I totally agree, where available you are better to buy an actual Renault rather than the Nissan badged stuff (not that either are necessarily a good idea). Where I live people pay 2 - 3 times as much for the Nissan badged version, it's a crazy world.
Love the 90s Nissans. More fun than Toyotas and Hondas 😎
"Ever since Renault bought out Nissan in 2000, their quality has taken a major hit." BINGO! Great comment, you nailed it JA! Had a very well maintained 2003 Altima 2.5L bought new. Engine destroyed in 2011/~80k mi. from blown pre catalytic converter (precats) spewing particulates into cylinders scoring walls immediately. Basically a new engine required, I traded it. Nissan knew of the issue, did bogus recall, changing oil and filter. Considering CEO Ghosn is a crook, and fugitive from justice now, explains a lot.
I bought a 95 maxima few years ago for 700 bucks... Put a water pump in it and drove it problem free for another 60k miles.... Sold it running and bought a Buick... Still miss it tho
@@JamesLee-oe7mt Had a 21 Ford Pickup in the shop with a bad steering wheel. The steering wheel was only 3000 dollars. This was a wreck rebuild the customer brought in for programming. The clock spring was another 1000 dollars. These new cars are not going to be fixed, they are made to throw away.
Definitely a déjà-vu. Back in 2005 I got myself a 2002 Maxima with the same 3.5 VQ engine. The alternator went bad shortly after. Since I had a 1year guaranty from the merchant I purchased the car, the replacement was covered by a big independent shop and they changed it 2h! That alternator was an aftermarket unit and only lasted 8 months, by that time I was out of my 1-year warranty, but the alternator itself was warranted for 12 months. The big independent shop changed it again for the same brand and again in 2h (I waited on site this time). This second alternator lasted 7 months... and the big independent shop refused to change it a third time under guaranty. Nissan quoted me 1k for the job. As I was broken, I had to do the job myself and save on cost, so I shopped around, everyone had the same model/brand that big independent shop used twice, but I found a small car store carrying an ACDelco alternator, now that’s a brand I know and they are an OEM manufacture - I don't know if they build the one Nissan puts in, but the unit was the exact shape, and all, except for the labeling. Cost me 220$ + 50$ core (this was back in 2007! Canadian dollar on top!). I changed it myself on jack stands in my parking spot in front of the building. Took me 7h, I’m no mechanic and had 0 power tools. I scraped the car a month ago, it was rusted through and through, but that ACDelco alternator worked ‘til the end - I boosted the Maxima and with no battery she when on the tow truck bed by her own running off that 15-year-old alternator. I shed a tear, loved that car - 3.5l, 6sp manual, locking diff, only good memories
Ivan no worries, you do need to unscrew the ACcompressor to wiggle the alternator out, but there is no need to discharge the system. The engine bay on the 2002 Maxima (Gen 5.5) looked as tight as your 2010 (Gen 7) one.
Have we all forgotten the last video that the problem was a bad battery ground? How about starting with the basics before getting out the fun toys?
Six alternators were installed in my new Volvo before I got one that was reliable. I asked Volvo service if we could try another manufactuer. It was a warrsnty service, so they sourced the parts.
I am questioning circuit integrity because the charger was supplying 14.7 volts at 90 amps ad the car was reporting that as 13 volts and 50 amps so there is at least a volt and many amps difference as well as the butchered pigtail. I think I would be cleaning grounds and ensuring that plug is fixed before going through the nightmare of replacing that alternator so it will be interesting to see part 2.
Saw FBM put 6 alternators in a car before he got one that worked, tried 2 oe remains from dealer, tried Delphi, tried autozone, finally got a power premium from Napa, it worked...
@pine hollow auto diagnostics
Ivan take 10 minutes and check this out
czcams.com/video/kbd33EP2Kc0/video.html
Golden rule is going oem,especially on electronics
I put 3 Oreilly Reman alternators on a customers 2009 Nissan Maxima. First one lasted 3 months. Second lasted 24 hours. Third lasted 30 minutes. Replaced with Ultima "New" alternator from Oreilly and haven't had an issue since.
i still strongly believe along with many others. the root cause of maxima’s electrical problems is a POOR frame ground. we are burning up alternators that are running max beans all the time because of ipdm current sensing circuit failure.
So many times you are correcting damage or mistakes made by other mechanics; perhaps with this one too. A Suburban with a missing fuse. A GMC with a crank position sensor jammed crookedly in a rusty hole; stuff people should have told you they did before you did the job. Still you solve the problems others can't and with a smile.
Some years back I went through 2 rebuilts on my Firebird in quick succession. Gave up and got an OEM alternator from a late model GM something that was salvaged. A pulley change and it worked fine for years until I sold the car.
No matter what brand, once it's taken apart and 'rebuilt' by some unknown entity, brands don't matter.
When I was in the field, alternators & starters that died this quickly we called them "Time Released"
Nice diagnosis as always!!!
Out of all of it, that dealer ripoff is the most infuriating. Great snowy day case study. Thanks Ivan!
The dealer does get crazy, but customers can be cheap too. I had a lady complain about my estimate, yet she mentioned during conversation that she pays someone daily to walk her dog. I didn't budge on my price. She left. When the car is DEAD, maybe she'll walk her own dog 😆???
@@hightttech Profile pic checks out.
@@hightttech It is interesting you mention that because we do, indeed, tend to focus on dealers and their practices. I had customers that would complain about my price and say they could get it done cheaper somewhere else. Then I would ask why they were at my shop? I would simply answer that they need to go there.
@@hightttech and pickup her own dog shit😂
There's a reason most people refer to them as "stealerships"... myself included! I've worked for a couple unfortunately. They keep charging you more and more money so they can either guess at your car, or not do anything at all to it.
I remember when a certain car parts store sold reman alternators for $29.95, Unfortunately I could never get one to last more than 6 Months. Which is when and why I learned how to rebuild alternators.
To be fair, they reinsulated the windings and put in new brushes. Unfortunately the front bearing they put in was junk and not lubricated. I replaced the front bearing and lubricated the needle bearings and that alternator has been working fine for over 30 years now. Not bad for a $29.00 alternator a $5.00 sealed bearing and a little bit of grease. It was like they rebuilt the unit to fail so it would be easier to rebuild again in six months.
Normally getting a bad alternator is no big deal, most parts shops will just swap it out for you, but normal alternators only take 20 minutes to replace.
Can't wait for part 2 Ivan!!
My immediate guess is an installation of both alternators without going over the connections of negative chassis
grounds of all sorts, this includes the ECM and charging module!! Grounding is most paramount and even if it means
bare metal all the way; exceptionally CLEAN bare metal wire terminal for the cable AND clean bare metal on chassis!
I have the same questions as everyone else in the comments. Side note I got a quote for commercial ins today @892 a year, 50/100. Have you ever thought about throwing up a pole barn and upgrading your shop?
The a/c compressor should always be running in defrost mode, to make the air drier to prevent windshield fogging, I think it runs anyway when in defrost even if you turn the "A/C" button off.
Incorrect. Depends on temperature and humidity, which some computer AC systems sense and activate defrost when you turn the car on in a cold morning, or if it’s raining/humid outside.
Running the AC all the time would be such a waste of gas and wear/tear on the compressor.
@@pepeshopping I think you misread. The compressor runs all the time when you have defrost selected.
Yes, you are correct. On a properly running AC/defrost system, the AC compressor does run in any defrost setting regardless of pressing the AC on/off button.
FordBossme had the same on a Lincoln Town car... 6 Alternators LATER it was the Napa Gold that was the success. Even OEM replacements were failures. These are crazy times...
Read my mind...
some of the guys i watch on you tube all say... "just because its brand new doesn't mean its going to work"!!!!! at least back in the day when i was a tech. we could still get rebuild kits and what ever we were working on would come back to life for a few years ya,know.!!!!!
@@scottjohnson5449 I replaced the brushes and regulator in the alternator on my 89 Mazda van maybe 10 years ago for 20 bucks... Still going strong at 260k miles!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics it will fail tomorrow now that you said that lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics exactly!!
FWIW I bought a new 2013 Maxima and had no trouble until the summer of 2019, when I got stuck 60 miles from home when the new battery I had put in two weeks prior wouldn't start the car. I called AAA and got jumped. Drove the 60 miles home and have had no issues since. The battery place said I should take it to the dealer because he thought the discharge during driving was caused by my security key system. I didn't do that. I went to the big box hardware store and got a lithium ion charger for $80. Now it's 2023 and still no problems.
From working on these things. The connector at the alt itself melts due to being near the manifold. I always have to repair them and put a Denso/Hitachi unit on them.
Automobiles and their battery charging schemes have changed BUT BATTERIES HAVE NOT.
A normal fully charged auto battery being charged at 14.8v is being overcharged. Normal charge maintenance is about 13.7v. A fully charged battery with minima/no load is about 12.6v.
Great job Ivan,such a sad world we live in right now. Mr Carter's Diagnostic's has some great videos on nissans. Be safe!!!
This is a good part of why iam a DIYer for almost 50yrs. that n i got a passion for fixing cars.
Yes Eric O had a video about that actually the same problem but It was charging but sometimes the car would stall out and they said to replace a harness but just like your car it just needed a new alternator in the end very interesting video it was.
Ivan what you need is the gulf stream to keep you warm as we have...not bad here just rain...
Great Video Ivan ! That could have been a good car; but leaking valve covers, bald tires. . continues to show that people fail miserably on basic maintenance. Buy 'em and drive 'em.
EVs are good for those kind of people
Scary how after market parts of all kinds have become junk, Even worse I've run into junk OEM parts too, if you can get them.
I have a 1993 Merc Marquis
Because I can sit in the engine compartment
And work on stuff
Alternator change
15 minutes. 😀😀😀
This looks like the same diagnostic I did on out 2006 explorer. It's kind of a mashup between 2 generations of alternators. This alternator you are working on uses the exact same connector as the ford. The extra wire goes to the stator winding and provides feedback to the voltage regulator on a ford. It uses a PWM signal for a faster response and the lights don't dim when you engage a high draw accessory like they do on an older system. When you unplug, it will supposedly default to charging up to 13.6 volts, but when the problem is internal to the regulator, this feature does not actually work because the regulator failure usually prevents it form allowing the voltage to excite the stator and induce charging. The only way to test this is to manually excite the stator with 12+ power if there is a place where you can contact on the regulator (like on a ford 3G alternator). That will help you diagnose if you are looking at a regulator problem or something else like a brush contact failure. The battery light does not appear to be commanded off until the voltage drops below a certain threshold so drivers aren't advised of the problem when the alternator isn't charging, only when the battery is at a point where it is very near the point where low voltage will shut down the entire vehicle. This is really poor planning as it massively increases the odds of leaving a driver stranded on the road. The battery light does not identify charging problem, only the symptom which is low battery voltage. You're probably 10 miles down the road before the light comes on.
Had a Taurus years ago that had a couple alts put on. would go 50 or 60 miles and get towed back. turned out to be a mega fuse down under the intake manifold at the rear of the engine compartment. Would connect intermittently until it hit a certain temp.
I had to replace an alternator in a Nissan Murano awhile back because the connector fried and welded itself to the alternator. Couldn't find a replacement plug locally so one of the guys at auto value let me have their test socket which I soldered and heat shrunk to the existing harness and it worked great until the subframe broke a couple years later.
thats great bro thanks
Great 👌 content. All of us knows that if you going to the
Dealership they are out to make the most money they can But If they see that you have been to outer shops most of the time. They want work own the car because of liability claims.
( He who touch the car last broke the car. )
Real Talk 101 !!!!!!!
Messy is not what I would say
I agree with you my 2002 Nissan Pulsar(Sentra in America) is so much easier to work on & 1 of the reasons I'm keeping it until the wheels fall off of it.Reason 2 it's a manual gearbox & it still goes really well (can still do 160kph/100 mph with ease & no rust.
It is awful what some guys do to what was previously a good car 😬😬
Very comprehensive testing Ivan 💪💪
On 2001 maxima yah you have to disconnect AC compressor but just lower it to get it out of the way.
The older VQ30DE was better but smaller engine.
Great vid . Always a mystery.
We had a saga with alternator on a Honda Odyssey. In the end 4 alternators later it was fine. I think they were thinking it was for a J35A6 engine but it was a J35A7 engine.
The one that worked was a denso reman one from rockauto. But the first 3 we’re replaced under warranty so zero cost to me.
Hah beautiful Denso remans save the day!
An interesting observation there, with all the test equipment. I have a Toyota Camry (2000 build) which, at about the 160,000 miles point, the alternator failed. Thought I'd go to component level in the internal regulator/brush assembly in the alternator, as it is easily accessible. I found the brushes had worn down, so I replaced them. Started the engine (cold), and measured 14V across the battery. Thought it was a repair, so went for a test drive, and found the lights dim, so without turning the engine off, measured 10V across the battery. Dang! I did notice that when I put pressure on a certain point on the regulator the alternator would charge. I later replaced the regulator/brush assembly for a cost of $A90.00 It is now functional, but think that the alternator in the Nissan had suffered the same fault, but a non-OEM changeover would only last a short time, having only been tested a short time... A (destructive) test of the old regulator showed a number of corroded copper tracks in the circuit board of the regulator...
Cool case study so far. (pun intended) Good luck.
This is why I continue to drive my 33 yr old Eagle Premier.
NICE 😁 I bet that thing has some plush seats!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics It does. But the foam in the driver's seat is getting a bit weak.
One of my old coworkers, owned a Nissan Altima. He needed to change the water pump. Sounds easy - NOPE! They had to pull the engine out to get access because of the way the car is assembled.
Had to pause to recommend you install a thick plate of steel with towing hooks anchored to your garage floor all the way at the rear. You'll not have a problem winching in a car. Or you could just install a winch at the rear of the garage, keep a battery nearby. Back to the video..... Here we are at 12:30 and I am thinking- WHY did any auto manufacturer stop utilizing a single-wire alternator? They built millions of them and millions are still running around doing a great job.
Ivan some cars like chevys are on the side of the seats feel on the door side for controls or look before you get in a car you may find them there or even on center console as well
Yeah I learn that one myself about 10 years ago replacing the alternator on my Corvette from AutoZone the first one that didn't charge after a 2 or 3 days the second one I put on burnt out a battery because it was throwing 17.5 v at the battery so I took it to a place in Tacoma Washington called sound starter rebuild they fixed it right after that I only take my starters and alternators to the sound starter rebuilt and get it done correctly or somebody actually fixes the alternator not just trying to find a bad part they rebuild the whole damn thing
I replaced my sister-in-law's starter in an Acura where you have to pull the intake about 2 weeks ago. Money is tight and the car needed other repairs so the low dollar starter was chosen. It lasted only 2 days. I get that low dollar parts might not last as long, but this level of garbage is criminal.
On to part 2
I have a Toyota Camry (4 cylinder sedan, built 2000) which had completed about 160,000 miles, and after a few battery replacements (my mother only drove short trips during the day) every 2 1/2 years, the alternator stopped charging, and I decided to go to component level with the regulator/brushes assembly internal with the alternator, and renewed the brushes (cost only $A10.00). I then measured the voltage across the battery while the engine was running, measured 14 Volts. Thought I had a quick repair, only to find after a test drive, and engine running, the battery down to 10 Volts! I then replaced the regulator (including brushes) for a price of A$90.00. After a destructive test of the old regulator, I found a section of corroded printed circuit board traces, giving me the symptom of (charge when cold, and when 'hot', fail) I think much of this is happening with the Nissan, and a short test of the non-OEM alternator would not have shown the fault...
That’s the reason we only put genuine alternator on if has smart charge.
Regards Bob
Oxford Vehicle Electronics
That wiring / connector needs sorting first before calling the alternator.
I agree. Put on the proper battery cable terminal, take the junk "fix it" one and throw it in the trash, then voltage drop test everything.
Ivan last time I mentioned reman alternators are spotty even if they’re Denso or Toyota reman.
Great diag. I feel badly for that car and the owner. I hope they sue the shop that butchered their wiring harness like that.
To splice a wire with solder you can use a very small diameter uninsulated butt splice and crimp the wire ends to the splice as normal, then solder the splice and the wires. This will give a good mechanical connection and a good electrical connection and then cover with regular black heat shrink tubing (thin wall). If you are careful in your soldering (best to use some liquid flux) this will result in a splice which is smaller in diameter than an insulated dual wall (thick wall with glue) butt splice after heat shrinking. This is helpful if the wire has to fit into a crowded convoluted tubing harness.
The battery negative retro bolt lug should be replaced with a proper cable crimped battery negative lug (and probably the cable from the current sensor to the battery). These bolt wire crimp connected lugs are not a proper repair in the rust belt states. Also, the battery positive lug and post should be disconnected, inspected (along with the positive cable), cleaned, and if all is well, then reconnected.
So, I guess the alternator duty cycle control is negative logic? meaning constant low is 100%? or full charge? I really would expect a type of duty cycle control where the command is from let's say 10% to 90% regardless of logic sense, such that there is always a toggling command, a switching signal, so 10% would be off and 90% would be maximum output, for example. For both instances, either stuck high (shorted to +12) or stuck low (shorted to ground) this would indicate as shorted output to +12V or Ground used for diagnostics. Meaning, for troubleshooting if the signal was stuck high or low you would immediately know that there is a problem.
a/c is actually good to leave on ...most cars will automatically engage it when defrost mode is chosen ...it helps clear the moisture off the windows
Yes the system runs the compressor in defrost mode anyway.
I had an Altima with the same exact symptoms not even two weeks ago. Only difference was the one I worked on had the I-4 instead of the V6. Did all the checks you did but I wasn't receiving any signal from the IPDM-ER. No signal at the alternator nor comming out of the connector at the IPDM-ER. Found the control wire rubbing against the bolt on the valve cover and pulling the signal to ground. Instead of a 0-6.5(I believe that was what service data said)PWM signal it was only 0-1.3 volt PWM signal. Fixed the wire and shipped it back to the customer but came back a week later with the same exact symptoms. Found no signal coming from IPDM-ER so I had to call it bad. I was so upset how it came back with the IPDM bad but every time you started the engine it would charge fine for the first 5-10 minutes then just stop charging. I still can't explain why it would charge just after start up but then just stop charging.
Dealt with alot of those nissan alternator connectors. They always are brittle and break when trying to remove. That wire may have not seated on the alternator terminal is my guess
While watching the placement of the amp clamp and your current flow direction shows the meter is displaying conventional flow when using it per arrow on meter .Just shows all meters use conventional theory in electron theory the battery reverses flow thru the battery neg to positive to b+ on generator and output the generator ground to battery neg .Just battery without car running the battery is neg thru a load back to positive terminal Got to start using conventional flow theory CHEERS
ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO
The alternator was charging and then it wasn't. I've seen loose connections on the control wires cause this. That plug looked totally at fault!
Valve cover leak killed the OE alternator. Aftermarket junk installed. Still on the same boat. Valve cover leak has to be addressed or the new OE alternator wont last.
Word!
If I saw that cutting of the wires, I would immediately take it back to the shop that did the work the first times and say "You broke something here by not being properly careful... fix it please or my next call is going to be to a lawyer!"
I know... I know... "They will refuse to take your cars to work on anymore if you do that!"
Nope. My father did that exact thing 5 times in his life with the Chevrolet garage and they did not blame him... they blamed the mechanic who was an EX-mechanic by the end of the day for doing that damage. Funny thing: If the mechanic had been honest that he broke something, they would have let it go. Why? Because they understand that cars are having so much stuff packed in them today that sometimes even if you follow all the directions... stuff happens!
What a mess left by the last person that did this job. Odd that they took the effort to solder the wires but didn't use any shrink wrap. And what the heck happened to the connector? So, I guess a replacement pig tail will certainly be needed. But does Nissan sell one? Probably not since there was talk about replacing the entire wire harness. But it was charging just fine at first. Then just stopped charging for whatever reason. Gut feeling says that alternator is fine. But the connector is the main issue.
The "smart charging system" basically prevents someone from buying a cheap replacement and all the $ go into the dealer's pocket! It's not a new design stratagy. My 98 Wrangler has spit many aftermarket (electric) parts back at me! They (Chrysler) have been using this "buy OEM or else stratagy since the mid 90s at least, and they obviously aren't alone.
Smart charging ecm pings the regulator to adjust output, most store bought alternators are cores sent overseas to be refurbished not rebuilt! I use a rebuilder that knows what he is doing and replaces the worn parts not grind sand and paint.
I use a shop close to home for rebuilds. Have had a relationship with them for years. And know the work they do.
My Autel does the mileage discrepancy on Nissans too. It takes the mileage as if it’s kilometers and converts it to miles. Wish they’d sort the issue out, it’s annoying when doing pre and post scans for insurance work.
As I have noticed in your previous videos. I would have blamed bad alternator, failed diodes and such, but new cars have some hi-tech weird regulators and commanded computer controls. So aftermarket parts do not get it right, testing is not as simple as you my think due to new tech ridiculousness , service data a must. You deserve all Diag. Hrs. time spent . including research and fixing botched repairs. - good luck as you are the last hope !
Leather seats with no heat option these days can also be a big pain in the wallet since some new warranties bail on leather seam damage caused by "cold climates and no seat heating option purchased new or if purchased, not functional at time of warranty claim...
I think the best alternators are made by Denso. Toyota uses Denso and I have never had one fail yet.
Agreed 👌
I had to replace a Yoda alternator last year. After 220k miles. After 10 yr run. Bought a brand new one for it. So far it's running goot.
You have 50/50 change of getting a good lasting Rebuilt alternator or starter that’s been my experience
I went thru like 5 alternators for a 3.5 Murano that were all bad in the box at parts store, until they gave me a working one. they tested them on the machine and were bad out of the boxes...
Turn on all accessories ,lights and rear defroster,let it run,when engine shuts off,alterantor is deffective
I have my alternators rebuilt by a local shop. The ol' Marquis has it right on top; three bolts and the belt, one plug and the wire held on by the nut and it is off. I thought for a second you were having issues with the CVT because it wouldn't pull into your garage. I would suggest a set of Michelin CrossClimate 2 tires; too bad the owner has spent $1,500.00 on alternator repairs, he could have spent that on tires. Great video!
I'm also a fan of getting the OEM alternator rebuilt instead of buying one. It's a cheap way to get/keep an OEM alternator. However, I've never had it done on a car with a smart charging system. Not sure how my local rebuilder would handle the internal electronics.
Of course, this solution is only viable if you have time to wait for the rebuild to get done.
But even if the time constraints meant I had to buy a replacement, I would probably still get the original rebuilt and keep it as a spare, rather than turning it in as a core.
@@n124lp I just like having someone's hands on it that I know/trust. I think you may have something with this smart charging thing. The rebuild usually takes about 1 day. I have never thought about this, though.
Early to mid 2000's Nissans keep mechanics busy. The best thing about these cars is there's always plenty of used parts in the junk yard. The same year model Toyota's are hard to find at a junk yard. Think about that :D
Humm, I'm not feeling good about the alternator connector. That one wire just popped out, and I'm wondering if when plugged in if that pin/wire backs out making a poor connection. I would clean up that wiring and replace the connector first and then go after the alternator, if need be.
that dealer guy needs a tune-up!
The connector for that style of alternator break all the time I keep 4 in stock and replace them when I replace a alternator
I admire your ability to remove black tape one handed with gloves on!
Lots of practice 😂
Hi Ivan. Was there a test with amp clamp and how much amps battery is taking in to know if its good or bad battery? Thanks
You are totally Wright
Have same issue on my 2013
I normally don't mind smart charging systems. Sure, they do add complications, but batteries tend to last longer and it is proven that fuel efficiency is increased and emissions are reduced. Some manufacturers use a LIN bus to control the alternator, not just a PWM signal. Ford, Mercedes, BMW, and Audi are some that spring to mind. Bmw's system is anti-consumer in some of their models. Some models like the 7 series and 8 series are programmed to refuse aftermarket alternators and won't enable charging. The alternator needs to report back the proper information for the car to accept it. And don't think that you can wire up a dumb alternator with a voltage regulator to get around this. If the charging system is malfunctioning, the car prevents most of the electrical accessories from turning on. For quite a while now, BMW and a bunch of other manufacturers have required you to register a replacement battery for the charging system to work correctly, but at least that has a very valid technical reason behind it. Also you can get away with not registering a replacement battery in 99% of cases with no adverse effects. But intentionally designing your product to refuse aftermarket parts is just plain wrong and should be illegal.
Didn't Microsoft settle a lawsuit a few years ago in this regard? Might have been in the EU .
Batteries certainly don't last longer with smart systems. Just serviced a 2003 Subaru with a Wal-Mart battery... From 2011!!👌😅
When I saw all the electrical tape at the top of the engine it made me suspicious, then when you removed it and showed the damaged wires, it backed it up. The messed up plug and RTV are a sign of lack of care on behalf of whoever did it - especially when you can find replacement plug ends online! D*man might be crap on a lot of things, but even THEY show an online replacement plug end assembly.
IPDM is an acronym:
Intentional
Problems to
Distract the
Mechanic
Have to say that the Nissans charging strategy is the crappiest.
On my X-trail, when it is warm, the system voltage goes down to 12.4-12.7v, just for saving few drops of fuel. That causes problems in colder regions, because the car thinks that the battery is full after fem minutes.
I disconnected the current sensor and now it is 14.2-14.5v. Even 14.8v when the battery is frozen. No warning light or fault with the sensor disconnected.
Like some others, I'm concerned that I see no pwm from the ecm. But at the same time the alternator regulator should default to some voltage. And to confuse things even more the alternator was charging when you first started it. I know you will figure it out.
Nissan does not provide the proper information on the service Manual how the control the alternator form fuse box computer , one day I hade a Nissan with charging sistem issues was making me crazy . So I had another Nissan in the shop in good charging system I made 6 channels with my scope , including power ground, amps , all wires on alt , so I find out what the service Manual gives you wrong information
Thank you God for my 04 Tahoe with 13mpg, and 209,000 miles! It might corner like a tug boat and drink gas, but at least I can fix it with vise grips and a hammer!!
Maybe the reason the pwm wire was hanging out was because somebody was trying to cut it to make the system operate in default mode
I had to change motor mounts and steering rack on one of these cars. The next time it needs an in depth repair it’s going to the scrap yard. That thing sucked to work on. Pretty sure they used a shoe horn to cram that engine/drivetrain in that car.
"I don't see a charge light", of all the alternators I've had fail, I don't think I've ever had one illuminate the charge/battery light EXCEPT for the alternator in my Mustang (AutoZone Reman unit) that failed and illuminated the charge light even though it was charging fine. AutoZone initially blamed the battery and refused to replace it because it passed their test, until I pointed out the battery was also an AutoZone battery that was under Warranty.
Also I think the ODO might be in km because 114k miles ~= 184k km