4in, PVC Dust Collection Upgrade | Much Better!
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- čas přidán 9. 12. 2021
- Quick time-lapse of installing the collection followed by a detailed discussion of why I made the choices I did.
*Disclaimer*
There is a risk, albeit a small risk from the research I could find, of a static ignition of dust particles in the dust collector lines which can lead to a serious explosion and shop fire. Follow your local codes and regulations when installing systems like this.
Cost Summary:
4in DWV PVC Pipe: 5 x $19
Wye Fittings: 7 x $8
45deg Fittings: 10 x $3
Blast Gates: 9 x $9
20ftx4in Flex Hose: 1 x $42
Hose Clamps: 2 x $10
White Duct Tape: ~$0.50
Silicone: ~$2
Self Tapping Screws: 20 x $0.11
Total = ~$325
Products Used*:
DWV Pipe & Fittings: Local Home Store (Check multiple sites, 1 of 5 in my local area carried this pipe specifically)
Dewalt DWS779 Miter Saw: amzn.to/2HzlELw
Machinist Square: amzn.to/2HKtfXm
Canvas Apron: amzn.to/3osYVkR
Blast Gate, 4in: amzn.to/3y0kMoM
Dust Collection, 4in OD Splice: amzn.to/3DCbzV6
Flex Hose, 4in: amzn.to/3owCWvu
Hose Clamps, 4in: amzn.to/3dp3WXc
Self Tapping Screws, #10x3/4": amzn.to/31FxzRi
Silicone Sealant: amzn.to/3GnZJzl
Duct Tape, White: amzn.to/3pB89wA
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Email: See contact section
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Hey, you earned a sub today. Your information was put together quite well and presented in an organized manner, thank you. I'm in the early stages of setting up my shop and have been researching the life of of everything dust collection related. Good job bud! can't wait to see what you will be producing as time goes on.
Thanks! Glad to have you around! I'm glad you appreciated the video and work I put into the system. If you have any questions about it or other aspects of my shop, let me know!
Happy Woodworking!
Josh
Northwest Craftsman
Your videos are very organized and thorough, and you’re very articulate. This was jam-packed with helpful information.
Thank you for your kind words! I’m glad you found it informative and helpful! 😊
Finally found what I need to set up my own dust collection. Really like the video and the down to earth and articulate description. You have another sub added to your total. Thank you from New Zealand.
Hey! Welcome to the community and I’m glad you liked the video!
I’ve visited NZ and absolutely loved it! In many parts it’s very similar to Oregon’s climate, just offset by the hemispheres. What part are you from?
Great video! I’ve been looking at a lot of these videos on dust collection. Yours is very informative. You made it sound very simple. Thanks
Thanks Mike! I’m glad you found it helpful! I love this dust collection system and find it quite effective for the space.
thanks for this - i am just sorting out a more permanent dust collection system having gotten fed up with trailing flexible hose lying about everywhere.. so thanks for demonstrating the pvc pipe solution you've installed. really helpful.
Glad I could help!
Really thorough video….and very timely for me - getting ready to install piping for DC system. Thank you!
Glad it was useful! Good luck! I love mine!
Great video! I really appreciate all the details here as I plan to replicate much of what you’ve done in your shop. Thank you!
Glad you found it helpful!
Good luck on your build!
Very helpful, the one thing I did that I don't see anyone else do is instead of having the fine dust go into either a filter or bag, I have it connected to an exterior wall with a dryer vent. Fine dust goes outside, larger pieces fall into the bag. I have a two bag Jet and I just removed the top bag and used a piece of plywood on top that I routed a round groove in that fits on the top metal rim that the bag was connected to. Cut a hole in the plywood for a short section of dryer vent duct to fit in (about 6" long) and have a short piece of flex hose connecting it to the dryer vent. No more cleaning a filter (which are expensive) and no more dust pump as they call the upper bags. I also added micro switches to each blast gate so that when I open the gate it turns on the vacuum at each specific tool. Close the gate and the vacuum turns off. This way I don't have to remember which blast gate was left open and I don't have a remote control that I'll end up forgetting where I put it down last. Great video and very helpful as I set up my newly relocated shop.
Oh I was so close to doing this as well. What kept me from finally doing it was that the air will need to be replaced in some way. So whatever volume is pushed outside, I'll need an inlet to my shop where the replacement air can come in. Where I live, half the year is too cold to allow for that, and the other half, believe it or not, is dustier than my shop. I'll eventually upgrade to a two stage with a canister filter but for now this works.
Great idea though, it'd work for a ton of folks.
Thanks for including the cost of materials. I've watched a bunch of these videos and have yet to see anyone include this helpful info. My system will be a bit smaller but I'll be buying a 2hp dust collector as well so it's good to see what adds up to what.
Absolutely! It’ll likely be outdated pretty soon because of inflation but at least for now it gives an idea 😂 also, that DWV is a bear to find in my area, hopefully you have better luck.
Good luck!
Josh
Northwest Craftsman
Clear. Thorough. Helpful. Concise. Thanks!
Thanks! I appreciate your kind words
Thanks for the video. I'm finally ready to start plumbing my shop with a dust collection system and I liked your layout - (I've had the collector for 3 years and been dragging a single hose to each tool as I use them - WHAT A PAIN). Here's something that might be helpful to you. A while back I watched another dust collection video using PVC and what was most useful to me in that one, was he bought a spool of thin unshielded wire (aluminum or copper - I don't remember) and tightly wrapped a continuous strand of the wire around all the PVC piping like a candy cane looping around about every 10-15 inches. At every joint, he connected the wire to the self tapping screws that held the joints together and continued on. He then grounded the end of the wire and his static issues were gone. Well there was virtually no sawdust clinging to the outside of the PVC so I can only surmise there wasn't any on the inside as well. Hope that helps. Now if I can only find that $18 a stick of DWV pipe in my area, I'd be a happy camper. The best I've found around here is $26 a stick.
Shoot! That’s expensive! And I couldn’t agree more, the single hose is a huge pain.
I’ve also seen a bunch of woodworkers do that as well but I personally haven’t had an issue with static. Perhaps it’s how humid Oregon is where I live but I imagine if you were in Colorado, Arizona, or the like, it’d be a bigger issue. I figured I’d wait until it became an issue to drop the money on copper coils.
Hey Josh,
WOW, nice video. I',m envious now because you got your system up and running and I don't even have my shop constructed yet. It is impressive for us guys on a budget. You have shown most all the cost saving ideas that I have found through a lot of research, and put them all together along with the understandable dialog. Also your comments and delivery are exceptionally clear. That's talent, and you have been blessed. Furthermore, the gracious nature of your apparent personality is obvious, and may I say that I know it is real and sincere. I'm fortunate to have gotten to know you and look forward to your future creations.
A very good friend.
Thanks for your kind words Cliff! I’m glad you enjoyed it and I’m also glad you found the same through your research! Can’t wait to hear how your shop comes together 😄
Just setting up a "system" in my shop, instead of point of use shop vac nonsense. This video was nice and straight forward. Thanks for being direct and focused and not rambling! LOL Some of those videos get sooooo long winded. Subbed. Looking forward to checking out your videos. Cheers.
Thanks Rob! I’m glad you found this video helpful and my style is what you’re looking for. Welcome to the community!
This is perfect, and what I'm planning to do with my shop. I have a similar dust collector, and have on order one of the Donaldson pleated filters to improve on filtration. I had originally ditched the idea of going with PVC because it was so expensive, so a BIG thank you for mentioning the DWV pipe. Just like you said, about $18 for 10ft. which is a big savings over pressure pipe. Cheers!
So glad I could help! And yes, the DWV is a game changer! Good luck with your setup!
Id mount the dust collection motor to a wall, then pipe from its outfeed port to a 50gal wheeled trash can. Home depot sells them. Cut a 4"hole in the flap lid. Add a flex hose adapter. Cut a vent hole in flap lid (if venting the air in your room use a couple coffee filters rubberbanded around a 4" stub out) (if venting outside use rodent grate.😂) Seal the lid to the trash can top with a foam pipe insulator, Add a couple bunjie cords. Itll work awesome for ya.
Those are awesome ideas! I’ll probably use some or all of this when I upgrade my system 😂
Thank you for the video. I am preparing to run my dust collection system. Honestly rerun with PVC. thank you
Glad you found it helpful! Good luck putting your system in!
Great job.
Looks very similar to my set up.
I used self-tapping screws to hold mine together. I know I'll need to take it apart as my shop grows.
PVC pipe and sawdust are static electricity monsters. I added some scrap steel threaded rod inside a few of the long sections. I added a grounding wire to each rod, and sealed any holes. This cut down on the static and the dust that collected on the inside of the pipe.
Thanks! I ended up putting some self tapping screws in after the fact since the duct tape definitely didn’t stick long term 😂
That’s an interesting idea for the static!
I removed about half of my 4" ductwork. Instead i made mini-cyclones with 2.5" tube & hose for a couple of tools that were outliers from the rest. That eliminated the runs that were really too long, and some leaks around a few spots. It's amazing how what seems like a small leak actually degrades the entire system.
Great idea! I was thinking about something like that on the tools already fitted with 2.5” adapters. I’m also hoping to do some testing with an anemometer at some point to get some quantitative data because I’m sure my system is lossy at this point.
Great video. Love the thought process
Thanks! I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Nice background, audio choice. Good job with setting up all ducting.
Thanks! I appreciate the compliment on both fronts!
Hola! 🖐I really enjoyed your video, it is both informative and educational. Really good discussion and comments below as well. Take care and have a good one, Adios!👊
Glad you enjoyed it and I appreciate the compliments!
Adios Amigo! Tenga un buen día!
@@NorthwestCraftsman buen dia y Dios te bendiga Amigo!
Love your explanation of how you put this together. New subscriber here. I'm about 3 weeks away from moving into my new house with my 1st woodworking shop 14'x32.5' and I'm researching dust collection systems. What I've settled on is a CamVac by Record Power, married up with a Mullet High-Speed Cyclone Dust Collector. You might consider this for your dust collector upgrade. I'll also be upgrading the CamVac with NanoMax Dust Collection filters. Looking forward to seeing more of what your doing in your shop.
Hey Pete! Welcome to the community! Sounds like we have very similarly sized shops! I haven’t heard of that dust collection system before so I’ll have to check it out! I’ll be upgrading my shop shortly so a DC improvement would be a welcome addition!
Very instructive video. Thank you for sharing.
Glad you found it helpful!
I have a similar dust collector that I bought used. I replaced the bottom canvas bag with clear plastic dust collection bags, and replaced the top bag with a Powertec 1-micron bag. That made a huge improvement in the amount of dust that the thing blows around. It only lost a bit of pressure so it was well woth it and was very cost effective.
That sounds like an excellent intermediate step for improvement! I’ll have to check those out! Thanks!
If you're concerned about static shocks and PVC, where you attached your blast gates you can then run attach a ground wire to structural steel or add a plug to the other end and just connect the ground inside it and plug it into an outlet. That will ground the PVCs and reduce the risk of static arcing.
Totally agree. There are a few ways to kill the potential for static shock. From my research though, there haven’t been any cases of dust explosions caused by PVC dust collection systems in home environments. Consensus was that they were generally pretty safe.
Pretty sure the static explosion concept has been debunked many times.
Using metal grounding straps helps.. the static discharge you'll get while dust is flowing hurts like heck if someone touches it .. about only thing to worry about
That dewalt planer you have has a built in impeller and works quite impressively on its own. Once I turned the planer on and it inflated the bag of my big Jet vac. I met the designer of that blower good job Diego! Plan on using pvc in my new shed workshop.
The impeller certainly has plenty of power! For a long time I ran it alone to a cyclone and it was strong enough to filter everything out 😂 super cool that you got to meet the guy!
Really good video~! I'm finally getting my setup going using the same materials. My pole barn has a 14-16 foot ceiling, so suspending the piping is a little tougher. I built a similar cluster coming down to my table saw, bandsaw, & jointer. Where you have a 45° fitting at the bottom of your cluster, I have a capped piece of straight pipe coming out of the bottom wye down to the floor. The weight of the column rests on the floor, so my bracing from above is minimal. Seems to work great so far. I have a few more (Katz-Moses style) blast gates to build for closing off the branches when they're not being used. I'm using a Harbor Freight DC and plan to pick up a Wynn filter and a 5" Super Dust Deputy. Might even go for the larger impeller if they come back in stock.
Looking forward to more of your content~! Thanks for sharing~!
First, great idea on the Wye at the bottom and the ground support! I had to go back and screw each segment together to get it to stay put and definitely don’t love hanging all of that from the ceiling. May go back to adjust that. Any concerns about debris build up in that area?
Second, awesome to have such high ceilings! But you’re right about the challenge, how’d you end up routing? Still on the ceiling, just more complicated?
Third, for your DC, how do you like the harbor freight? I’ve seen a lot of builds using them and will likely need to upgrade at some point. Does the larger cyclone just increase the power draw? Or what’s the downside? Also, for a cyclone I was debating between the Jet separator and the Oneida you mentioned. Let me know what you think of the Oneida!
And lastly, thanks for the compliment! Love having guys like you around talking through what you’re doing.
Josh
Northwest Craftsman
@@NorthwestCraftsman I think if there were to be debris build-up in the bottom support tube you can add a 2.5" capped opening at the bottom somewhere and just open it once in a while so the DC can suck out the build-up.
You did an amazing job now you had mentioned upgrading your dust collector. I have the same (Harbor Freight I think yours is) and I have made a movable cart and created a 2 stage system based off of "Patriot DIY's" system.
I’ll have to check it out! I still have yet to upgrade it but sincerely need to, I fill my little bag lightning fast and would love to get a two stage with a pleated filter.
I vent my cyclone through the wall--without the filter at all.
It's surprisingly quiet outside. You can barely hear it 20 to 30 ft away. It rarely, if ever, shows any dust outside.
And, no, I can't see any appreciable difference in shop temperature and or strain on the 220 volt heater and woodstove. We still empty sawdust, but never clean a filter nor rebreath our own dust. It is wonderful.
Best regards,
Todd
I really appreciate this comment! I’ve been tempted to do this because of its simplicity. May have to do a test in my new shop with this technique.
👍 Your knowledge and thoroughness made this a very helpful workshop video. Thanks! I’d also be interested in hearing the story behind the color of your table saw extensions? Cheers. 😊
Thanks! I’m glad you found it useful! And unfortunately there’s no interesting story behind it 😂 I bought it from a coworker and it came that way. I do have to say it’s a total pain though because it does come off on the work pieces sometimes 😂
Well thought out.
Thanks! Can’t say all my plans are but I do try 😂
Handy thing with PVC is you can heat & shape, if you needed a sleeve join a gentle heat & flare the end. Nice coverage of install & why.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it! And you’re a little more adventurous than I am with custom modifying the PVC 😂
@@NorthwestCraftsman Was a happy accident - experimenting with steam bending wood & 4" PVC was at hand to make a vessel. Connected a Home Sauna kettle to it but noticed the pipe was sagging over the ends of the table after 20min.
@@huntz3215 Rather those accidents than the "lose my finger" type of accidents haha
@@NorthwestCraftsman Made the Art piece in my thumbnail 2yrs ago - stands 1mt tall & actually works. Making the spring was something new - 6mm rod wrapping around a 50mm pole. Could feel the tension as I walked around it & hoping my clamps didn't let go.
@@huntz3215 strain/mechanical energy is just wild sometimes. I've grown to respect springs, flywheels, and the like because they can store wild amounts of energy.
Excellent job
Thanks Ray! I really appreciate that!
I did a very similar the a few months ago. I thought I had done good until a couple months later, I had those same gates - they are JUNK! The groove that the plate slides in and out of, filled with dust and thus leaked air and I lost a lot of suction. I plan on buying the expensive metal gates when I get my funds together. Keep an eye on them. First sign is they don’t close completely.
Couldn’t agree more! I’ve been able to clean the track out with a sharpened golf tee but I agree, when I move to my new shop, I’ll be upgrading.
Great video. I'm in 4th process of doing this. Im considering a separator bin for mine to have less bag emptying.
100% recommend the separator. That’s an upgrade I’m looking to do.
Great video… that sums up where I’m at, albeit in a much smaller space (half the unfinished basement of my house in Montreal). Currently, I am head-juggling the right recipe for the dust collection on my contractor saw, integrated to my workbench.
Actually, I wanted to let you know that a few CZcamsrs came up with great solutions. I will try myself to come up with a system similar to the Milescraft’s hose system for routing table, with a liftable hood. Heck, I might as well adapt the MC thing itself (quite inexpensive). Just a thought to share. Good luck!
Thanks for sharing! I’m always looking for better solutions.
Hope you find a good solution for your space!
My dad had a setup like this for about 30 years and I spent a lot of time around it. Be careful of static shocks when running the planer for a long time. Another fun trick is to put one on the floor with a large mouth so you can sweep directly into it.
No kidding you need to be careful 😂 I’ve seen a 1in jump from the extraction hose to the outfeed table. It’s funny that the planer causes this the most.
That sounds like a great idea! I’ve seen some of those around but have usually just ended up using my shop vac to vacuum the floor directly.
Just be careful with the floor vacuum. Someone’s shop burnt down because of a screw being sucked in and causing a spark when it hit the fan blade. It smoldered for several hours before catching fire.
Good editing. Overview first good pace
Thanks! Glad you appreciated it.
That was one of the best if not the best dust collection video's I've seen! Thank you! I'm days away from starting my build and some questions: Did you silicone the pvc to pvc joints and have you come up with a table saw overhead and work bench overhead attachments?
Thanks Gary! That means a lot to me, I’m glad you found it useful.
I didn’t silicone the PVC joints though that would seal better and I haven’t figured out what to do for the overheads yet.
I did learn though, the white duct tape already released and the tool cluster connection fell from one of the vertical connections. I’ll pin a note to the video but I recommend using those self tapping screws on all vertical connections if not all connections in general.
Get ready for a lesson in humility! But don't give up. Problem solving is an important part of woodworking.
Drainage pvc is cheaper than schedule40. as for the static problem, wrap a bare copper wire (14awg) around you pvc ducts and ground it to the blower housing. Awesome set up!
Thanks! And totally agree!
The static build up can be resolved with rune a sheet metal screw into the plastic and run a ground wire to a grounded metal box or conduit. I did it at both ends of my line since I'm in a very dry climate and am more susceptible to static build up. Looks real nice and serviceable, good job.
Thanks! And that makes sense in your case.
It's simple insurance. @@NorthwestCraftsman
Hey Josh, been a while but I been keeping my eye on you. I'm getting closer to the shop/shed build. It's going to be raised so the dust system will be a lot like yours except, I want to take yours and put it under the floor. I did find a like new Harbor freight 2HP collector so I have that. I will put a canister on it right away because I'm putting it in its own small room with a n export to the outdoor. I've been collecting equipment and now have a band saw and drill press, also a bench grinder and a benchtop sander, disk and belt. Getting closer. The waste pipe is a great tip and so are your comments on installation. Thanks.
Hey Cliff! It’s been a while! Thanks for your kind words 😊 Glad to hear you’re doing well! I’m excited to hear how the build goes.
Great video. Simple and to the point. Did you glue all the connectors.
Thanks! Glad you found it helpful. I did not but would recommend at a minimum, screwing all of them together. Caulking all connectors would create a better seal but I’m not sure how much of an improvement it’d be. I’m also planning to move this system with my in the future so I wanted it a little easier to disassemble.
Just a thought about the filter. In my shop I have a Y with blast gates after the DC giving me the choice of venting through my filter or venting directly outside. If I am heating / cooling my shop I want to save the conditioned air. But if the outside temperature is tolerable I just vent the DC outside. It sucks better and is much quieter. Of course, I'm using a cyclone to catch most of the stuff and all I get outside is a very fine powdery stuff that my lawnmower makes disappear, and I don't have any neighbors that are close enough to be bothered by it.
I like that idea a lot and had thought about doing that. For me, the challenge is outside my shop is very dusty so pulling air back in would pull that dust in at the same time. And in the winter, like you’ve alluded to, I want to keep my hot air in 😂 eventually I’ll do a two stage like yours and put a canister filter on to really scrub it.
If I move to a less dusty location in the future, it’d be nice to have a system like this because I dump it out there anyways 😂
***NOTE & DISCLAIMER***
There is a risk, albeit a small risk from the research I could find, of a static ignition of dust particles in the dust collector lines which can lead to a serious explosion and shop fire. Follow your local codes and regulations when installing systems like this.
Also, the white duct tape did not hold, especially on the vertical joint at the tool cluster (found it on the ground in the shop). If you can use PVC cement (permanent) do this. Otherwise silicone all the joints and add self tapping screws.
Have you looked at the wide (2") plastic tape. Like black electrical tape, only in white and ~2" wide.
I haven’t! I’ll have to look into it. If this was my long term shop I’d just silicone all of the joints and seal with a self tapping screw but that may be my solution in the short term! Thanks!
Great video I hope to have a similar setup soon cause dust is very frustrating. One thought on connecting the pvc pipes. Any reason you didn't use primer/cement glue ? I know that's a permanent bond and best seal possible. Unless you didn't want that permanent in case of changes in the future. Just curious 🤔
Phenomenal question and thanks! Your 100% right on all fronts. Primer and cement is the best way to put this system together if you want a permanent setup. I’m currently renting my house so I wanted to be able to salvage as much of the system as possible and leave it versatile for the next setup.
I know you want to have it where if there was a clog you can pull it apart, but why not just PVC cement everything in place? It will hold together very firmly and also will get rid of any other leaks in the system. Like a central system that uses similar piping, just 2" outer diameter, the installers "glue" them together. I would avoid putting screws through the tubes because that's a potential clog right there. If you want to still use tape, you could use some plumber's metal pipe band (I know, it sounds like the name of a Rammstein bag pipe cover band) to help support your tool cluster tree from the ceiling.
Can you buy a cartridge filter for your collector? I mean, the bottom bag could be changed to a fairly heavy duty clear garbage bin bag or with some creative work, the filter cartridge combined with a modified garbage can. That way you still have the old machine and the advantage of better air quality.
Hello. Great video!
But need to mention...
DWV (drain/waste/vent) comes in different wall thicknesses, including schedule 40, which is most commonly used. There is also a foam core pvc that is used in areas where it needs to be more silent, for example in vertical drops or in a wall where people don't want to hear the pipes draining.
That thinwall that you used is most likely a schedule 30 wall thickness which is used in non pressure systems in areas where temp will not exceed 140°F.
Otherwise, very informative video!
Keep up the good work! :)
Thank you so much for adding this! This also explains why I had such a hard time finding the pipe purely by DWV. Didn't realize there was an umbrella of DWV pipes.
Glad you found it helpful otherwise!
@@NorthwestCraftsman Is my pleasure! :)
A lot of good info. How do the blast gates fit into the dwv? Is there any gap between the OD of the blast gate and the ID of the pipe or is it a good fit? Is that why you used the caulking around the connection between the blast gate and the pipe?
Thanks! Glad you found it helpful. Blast gates fit loosely, won’t stay on their own but close enough that any generic silicone caulk sealed it just fine. You do need to have a pipe connecting to it though, not a fitting. The fittings go over the OD of the pipe which makes it way too big to fit.
Thanks for the informative video. Slowly collecting ideas. Did you cement your PVC fittings together?
Thanks Dave! And I did not but that would be the most robust way to seal the system. I’m renting here and would like to disassemble and bring as much with me as I can. That’s why I didn’t cement.
Great, informative, well organized video. Do you think placing reducers in some areas for smaller machines is a good idea? More suction?
Thanks! And that’s a great question. I’ve actually done that out of necessity for a few of my tools and the opposite happens. Shop vacs generate a large pressure drop with little airflow while dust collectors usually generate a small pressure drop with high airflow. If you mix and match the hose size between those two systems, they generally perform very poorly. I’m in the process of trying to move all my tools to 4in for that reason 😊
If you are running any 2.5" connections into a 4" line, then ensure any two of them are open at the same time so you maintain the volume of air for suction.@@NorthwestCraftsman
To mitigate static electricity run braided bare copper wire up the pipe and connect to earth ground.
Nice video, I appreciate your description of your layout and thought process.
One area I am trying to improve on is our combination bench top belt / disc sander. This sucker sure creates a fine dust that causes allot of fine dust in our shop. We currently have a 2 1/2 hose hooked up to our 1 hp dust collector for this sander.
Any suggestions ?
Thanks for the compliment! And that’s a great question. If you have the ability to upgrade the tool to a 4in hose and run that to the dust collector, you’ll have better luck. Generally dust collectors do very poorly with the smaller diameter hoses but it depends what model you’re running. If that doesn’t help, it’d be good to add some auxiliary dust collection around the, specifically in the areas that like to spit the dust out.
Hope that helps!
Josh
Thanks Josh.
This is something I will look at updating.
8:02. That can be a problem. I have the same blast gates and the channel that the gate slides in tends to get clogged and prevents the gate from fully closing, resulting in loss of suction. I wrap the portion that goes inside the PVC with duct tape until it has a very snug fit. That way they can be removed for cleaning as needed.
Good to know! Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll be curious to see how fast things build up.
@@NorthwestCraftsman There are some who modify them by cutting the back edge off and making a flap out of duct tape that is supposed to close when suction is applied. Might work, but sounds tedious to me. I only have two gates that I use with regularity, so it's no big deal to remove them once a month or so to clean them.
Although it may be in violation of NFPA (I have not checked), you can run a ground wire in the pipes to discharge the static. Fine particulates and heat from friction/cutting are a risk for dust ignition. Build looks good!
Thanks! It works well for me.
You have made an extremely good point Jared. Without a copper ground wire attached to and wrapped around the lengths of the outer PVC en-casement of the pipe. The fire risk is 82.56% higher towards catching on fire from fine particles and friction causing ignition.
Ideally all piping should be constructed using metal piping. However, this should be ok (ish) when using in the home workshop. BUT... I would take action by grounding your system asap. The aluminum tape also helps with this but make sure the copper wire is taped under it. You should be aware that any workshop using PVC piping type system that doesn't meet world wide OHSA & NFPA dust extraction system standards (which yours Does Not!). Often means your workshop and items within it aren't covered by insurance should it result in a fire.... and yes insurance companies world wide will investigate this as a probable cause - you decide if this risk is worth taking?
Great video thanks for the help. As far as static control you can put a steel screw through the pipe on a regular basis and join it on the outside of the pipe with a wire and discharge electric chargers simple effective.
The bigger threat is that a spark ignites a shaving. The air movement fans it to life. That smoldering shaving is then buried in a bag of shaving. Where it smolders until 2:00 AM when it burns your shop down.
Chips moving thru plastic creates static. Like rubbing a ballon on a sweater.
You have just been lucky…so far.
Other than that, great video!
But ground your system.
I found that talking a 1/2 inch dowel and rubbing out the wrinkles in the tape will help with sealing it, at least it works on the aluminum duct tape real well--I haven't it on regular duct tape.
That’s a great idea!
Great setup! Did you modify the blast gates to prevent them from getting stuck when too much dust cakes up the grooves the gate slides in?
Thanks! I appreciate the compliment. No mods on the blast gates at this point and I haven’t seen any issues but it is still brand new in the scheme of things. We’ll see if that causes issues in the future.
@@NorthwestCraftsman Your most used ones will most likely get some buildup. I remove them and clean them with compressed air periodically.
New subscriber here. I live in north Texas where it is hot. I am looking at dust collection and like your video and thought process. One question I have is with the sewage or schedule 25 (thinner/cheaper) PVC is the fit with the blast gates is loose and some tape it to make it snug and others purchase an adapter to make a more snug fit. How did you resolve the fit problem of dust gates?
Hey Brent! Glad to have you around!
Yea, my final solution was three fold.
1. Cut an ~6” piece of PVC off so it can be inserted into the fitting at end of line. 2. Caulk the blast gate with silicone caulk
3. Install some self tapping screws for mechanical support.
The caulk should be enough but while it’s uncured, it’s still pretty runny. I would also recommend, if you can afford it, self cleaning blast gates or, if you need these ones, install them so the sliding portion points down a little or entirely. They like to jam sawdust into the far end and will prevent full closure unless you clean it out.
I’ve (hobbiest) been using pvc over a year and no issue. How dust the hf dust collector work
Same here. Doesn’t mean zero risk but I haven’t seen enough evidence to be concerned about it.
I’m not sure if mine was originally from HF since I was gifted it but it’s a 1HP cheap something brand and it works wonders for how cheap it is. Looking to do a build with the 2HP HF with a two stage build sometime soon.
That's a great system but do you have to use a large pipe as I've got a very small work shop can I use a 2" pipe and flexible tubes
Great question! It depends on a couple of things. If your dust collector has a 2” port you may be fine but I haven’t seen many outside of shop vacs. The problem you can run into with a shop vac is they have a high pressure drop but very little air flow. So they’re good right at the end of their own house but not much further.
If you have a 4” Dust collector and try to neck it down to 2”, you’ll lose a lot of your flow as well because of the opposite reason. Most dust collectors have high air flow but low pressure drop meaning they can’t overcome reductions in diameter well.
If you can avoid flexible hose I’d recommend it because the ribbing on it causes a lot more drag in the system reducing the overall effectiveness.
All of that said it can still work do use a shop vac with 2” flexible hose through the shop, you may just find yourself disappointed with how it performs.
Great video. Thanks for sharing. New sub.
Have you decided on how big your new DC will be? I have the same 4 inch PVC plummed into my shop (now behind my sheet rock) and I'm shopping for a cyclone system. Wondering if I should go big or limit to a 1.5 HP 600 CFM DC. Thanks for any info.
Thanks! I’m glad you found it helpful! Unfortunately I haven’t decided yet, my current setup is enough to collect at the stations I have so it dropped in priority. If you have the money to go bigger, I don’t think you’ll regret it.
You are right about Power Tech fittings being costly. So is the vinyl flex hose. I used 4 in dryer vent hose to save some money. Very few of the figs cost a lot but there are so many of them. My biggest cost was making design changes which made for additional fitting costs. I am a retired design engineer but still was unable to anticipate these changes never having worked with this stuff before. I am currently closing out the installation and am embarrassed at how inefficient this process has been. Design concepts erode quickly when the metal hits the road. That's why real designers first build prototypes. But then, in spite of our genius the changes begin! I haven't found any discussion anywhere about the specific best practices in assembling this stuff for DIY or just rookies. My shop is much smaller than yours, but still has 8 blast gates, one for each machine. The planer not included. It will have to continue to be rolled outside for its operation. The miter saw resides in its sawdust cave which has remarkably limited sawdust spray, but far from perfect. I have made provisions for its later inclusion into the system. Not sure any of the many videos of less than great ideas warrant its inclusion yet either. Maybe Power Tech, Woodcraft or Rockler will wake up and help. I'm still pleased with what I have accomplished so far but disappointed in the process. Just think if I was paying for labor on this!!!
Great idea on the dryer venting! And you’re totally right, there is almost no amount of forethought that can account for all that actually happens on install. Try as I may, there are always adjustments 😂
I wonder if attaching a ground wire somewhere on the ducting would kill the static problem?
It would help but because PVC insulates so well, you’d have to wrap it or cover it in more than just one location but grounding it would help.
The flex tube ridges do not cause "a massive" pressure drop. There will be more friction and turbulence than smooth wall pipe but it you keep them short and straight as possible it won't be much.
I think it may just be a difference in terminology. Net net, I think we agree that there will be a drop in performance if only flex tube is used. And I certainly agree with you, the straighter and shorter, the better.
I had all plastic blast gates in my set up and ended up replacing them with the metal blast gates due to the plastic gates not closing due to the saw dust build up in the tracks. The metal ones have not done that and still work like they should.
I’ll be doing that in my next shop, it is annoying for sure. Which brand did you go with?
Make wooden DIY selfcleaning* blast gates / shutters, I would…
See CZcams films… 😀 a great shop you have!!
*Easy to open and close by a rope via the ceiling.
@@MrToondeWit That's a great idea! I know JKatsMoses had a video on one of those systems as well. I'll check them out!
I am working on the same problem with my shop. The big question I have is: how to reduce down for the small outputs on thing like sanders, routers, ect. tools that have a small vacuum size output. I need to reduce down from the 4 " Y fitting on my pipe, to these small output tools. I can't find any video that demonstrates this! Any help would be Great! Thank you for this video!!
Glad you found it helpful! And great question. I’m almost all cases you’ll have flexible hose from the 4” wye to the tool. Then from the hose, you’ll use a 4” to X” reducer or a series of reducers to match your tool’s output.
As a note, depending if you got Sch40 or DWV, things will fit differently. I was using DWV and from my wye needed a 3” segment of pipe (to fit into the wye) and then I could *barely* fit my 4” flexible hose over that segment. Powertec has an adapter that makes this much easier, but it does cost a few dollars and can add up. You may also need some silicone and a screw to hold it in.
On the tool side, it should be very straightforward with the reducers. As another note though, large dust collectors don’t do nearly as well on a smaller opening. I still use my shop vac on some tools.
Below is a link to the 4” to 2.25” adapter I use in a few places
amzn.to/3v7u0yv
And here’s the Powertec 4” coupler
amzn.to/3DYTgLs
I had caulk fail like that years ago. Your fix won't hold for long. You need to actually scuff up and sand the blast gates and pvc where caulk will go. Zero issues on mine after doing this. Good video though. Thanks!
Glad you liked the video and you’re totally right. In my next shop, which is a more permanent setup, I’ll be doing that.
nice job -- my table saw has a 4" vent in the cabinet, dont get enough off the top of the blade to bother. the miter saw, however, is a mess. consider a HEPA filter instead of the bag
I just upgraded my table saw to a 4in and man does it make a difference. I think part of my issue on the top side is that I don’t have a riving knife (I know it’s dangerous and I hate it) so when the wood pinches on the back side, it throws dust up.
I agree as well, if I stay with this style of dust collector, I will likely upgrade to a two stage and put a HEPA filter instead of a bag.
Nice video. I'm currently installing a similar duct system in my shop. During instillation a thought crossed my mind about material dropping down into Y connections closed off between tool and dust collector. I see over your work bench you have a Y connector facing down. So when using your table saw or other at main branch do you see material dropping into the Y at the work table. If it is you would have material falling out of the blast gate onto the work table. Just curious if you are seeing this. I was thinking of setting my Y connectors at a horizontal position and then 2 45s to get it down to work surface. Again thanks for the video.
That’s a great idea! I had thought it might be an issue but haven’t run into it yet. The blast gates do a good job keeping the debris from getting past and as soon as I open it up, any debris gets collected. You’re idea would make sure there isn’t any issue at the price of a small amount of suction for the extra bends.
@@NorthwestCraftsman Great thanks for the reply. I'm just a hobbyist so system will not see heavy use, was just wondering. I have several spots that could have that issue and your right for the little loss of suction it might be worth trying a few 45s. I have an air flow meter and plan on lots of testing to see what kind of drop I will see with changes.
Sounds great! I’d love to hear what your anemometer says about the efficiency loss!
This video came at the perfect time as I’ll be replacing my current “system” with DWV pipe. I see you are using Powertec blast gates. Are they self cleaning? Thanks for the great explanation.
Glad to hear! And I am using those. They are not technically self cleaning so there may be jamming issues later but this far they’ve worked great!
Hey Richard! I wanted to provide some feedback. I just went through and did a cleaning of all my blast gates because some of them were pretty clogged up. Easy to clean but definitely confirms they are not self cleaning.
You mentioned a canister filter. Where/ and how can I get one. I have the POWERTEC DC1080 Dust Collector with 1 HP Motor | 800 CFM | Mobile Base
Most of the videos I've seen reference Wynn Environmental (Link below). They should have one that comes close to fitting your dust collector. It is worth noting that very few of the dust collectors have a good way of mounting the canister filters. Almost all of them need a custom mount made by the woodworker.
wynnenv.com/woodworking-filters/
i have wondered if you add a copper wire running through the top of just part of the pipes? drill a small hole at one end , run wire through and back out another hole then seal with jb weld or such it would be worth it??? i have seen some new magnetic couplers that might reduce the number of ducts at the cluster area also a floor drop there might be nice and central!! i have 2 systems to set up one in our shop( where will do wood. ect) and one for my wife's stainglass shop where she does a lot of grinding and paint work!! i plan to put the system for the glass shop outside in a " dog house/ lean too"
You could run a copper wire through it but you'll need to make sure it's grounded. This is no statement of authority, I've just never heard of a dust collection explosion in a hobbyist shop which is why I never grounded my system. If you're worries about it, it'd be pretty easy to help drain the charge.
On the note of putting the dust collector outside of the working space, you'll need to find a way to provide the "make-up" air. Since the DC is pulling all of its air from the work space and pushing it out in another, the air in the work space needs to be "made up". I've seen some folks just put an external vent in their shop for this.
@@NorthwestCraftsman thanks yes figued to ground to the frame of the metal building , and we leave an upper window in the loft of her shop open . could you just ground to screws in your couplings if they go through a little bit i wonder?
Both of those would be perfect 👌 and you absolutely can ground to the connection screws so long as those are connected to ground on the outside
Whem you upgrade your vac, consider Harvey GyroAir 700,
I just got one, and i gota tell yeah its awsome,
-remote controle
-twin cyclons.
-2 bins, 1 coarse, 1 fine
Friggin love it, i just need duct work, im dragging the hose on the floor from one machine to the next for now.
Looking at your set up, think i may do the same
Oh man would I love to get one of those! I have a new shop I’m putting together soon and will be in the market for an upgrade so we’ll see 🧐
If you can swing the cost, I’d go for a metal instead of PVC. Technically safer (though I’ve never found a case of static discharge explosion in a hobbyist shop)
What did u do to manage static and decrease explosion capabilities?
Great question! And caveat caveat caveat, check your local codes because I am no expert.
From what I could find online, hobby shops don’t run as high a risk of static discharge induced explosions. In my case, I only use the dust collector a few minutes at a time and then turn it off which allows the static to dissipate. I’m also in very humid Oregon which dissipates static even more quickly.
I’ve heard a couple of suggestions though:
1. Build your DC from metal ducting and ground it. I will eventually be doing this but at the time I built this system, PVC was 1/3 the price of metal. I just had someone reach out to me and where he’s from, it’s almost the same cost now. Best solution is grounded Metal through it all.
2. Run copper around the exterior of your PVC and ground it. It’s not awesome since PVC is a good insulator but it’s better than nothing.
Again, I am not a professional nor a regulator and I recommend you check out your local codes for full direction.
Great Video. I would like to do the same. Where were you able to pick up that pipe? I keep looking and all I’m able to track down in the schedule 40
Great question Grant! I found mine at a Home Depot but had to search around to find the thin walled stuff. Online was hit or miss. May be worth giving them a call or going and checking yourself.
the blast gates were did you get the, from
I got them from Amazon. Link below. They do however clog more than I’d like so I’ll be moving to an all metal one in the future, my likely purchase is also below.
Original Blast Gates
amzn.to/4aceKTU
Likely Upgrade
amzn.to/4973lnG
Did you weld the PVC fittings together or simply press together plus the duct tape?
In this case I simply pressed and duct taped. After the fact I added some self tapping screws. Welding is a better solution if you're fine with a permanent build. I am renting this space and plan to take them with me to a more permanent shop when we move, hence the more temporary attachment.
were did you get the shut off gates
See my other reply 👍
Is your dust collector itself connected to the piping with a flexible hose? It looks like it in the video but couldn't tell. If so does it cause any issues?
You observed correctly! It is connected with a flexible hose and it doesn’t cause any major issues. Likely reduced my suction a little but hard piping it wasn’t an option for me.
Do you know? In stead of a bag, can I run a 4" hose into the top of a trash can?
I did! I haven’t been able to get around to designing a better system yet 😂 but trust me, I’m planning on it in my new shop. Two stage, cans to empty, the works.
I may be wrong on this but I think the wye by router table headed into main trunk needs to be flipped around so that it flows up rather than down ( not sure where unit is )
Never mind lol , I see where it’s at now , you ran it right but I’m gonna leave that comment for algorithms
Hey Bobby! Thanks for the comment! Now worries at all, frankly, I’d rather have people like you asking questions because many times, I’m wrong and didn’t know it! Thanks for being around!
Happy Woodworking
Josh
Northwest Craftsman
I know this is a year late, but a suggestion, run a section down to the floor with a waste gate and a wide mouth duct section, I have one and it's great to have when you sweep your floor, it's like a dustpan, except your dust collector sucks it up as you sweep it in.
Hey, always room for improvement! I’ll be redoing this when we get a place of our own and I’ve seen a few adapter like that! It’s an interesting idea.
@@NorthwestCraftsman oh I love it, saves a lot of bending down lol.
I have a question: You show your entire system using 4" PVC. What is the inlet of your dust collector? If it is 6" or 8" as most are, did you run that diameter and then reduce to 4" or instantly reduce at the collector inlet? Any thoughts on which is a better method? Thanks
That’s a great question, in my case, the dust collector has a 4 inch at the inlet, so I had no reduction all the way through. If you do need to reduce, I would tend to leave it as large as possible for as long as possible, then reduce it at the tool. However, I also understand this means you will be paying a lot more for your dust collection hardware, so immediately reducing it at the collector might be the right answer for you.
How do you like the Power Tech Blast gates? considering purchasing them?
Great question. As cheap blast gates go they’re pretty good! The tracks do get filled and require periodic cleaning. I just use my air compressor while the system is running and it sucks away all the debris. Powertec does have a metal version that is supposed to be self cleaning but I can’t speak to their effectiveness.
This music makes me feel like I’m someone special
I have a question how big is your desk collector? I have a 1hp desk collector. It was thinking about doing the same thing, but didn’t know if it was big enough.
Great question! Mine is 1HP and does a good enough job. 2 would certainly be better but 1 is sufficient in my system.
If you are concerned for the static or getting shocked by machinery I found a great video explaining how to run 3/4" screws through the piping and running bare copper wire to each screw and grounding through the dust collector and tools if you wish!
Interesting! Thats an idea!
Also nice video
Would it not have been better to just glue the joints in the run rather than duct tape (which is pretty useless)? Also I am interested in if it can pull metal swarf from my metal side of the shop? Haven't heard or seen anyone address that. I have a HF unit sitting in my new shop addition and am wondering if it would do both? I will have to try using the PVC cleaner first and then the silicone. Might stick better. Or use a urethane construction adhesive to seal with where needed. Good video. Seems like each one adds a bit more to the picture.
You have a great point and I must have forgotten to mention it in the video. In a permanent setup, yes, glueing the joints is the best way to go because it guarantees no air leaks. I'm only renting this location for the next year or so though so I wanted to be able to salvage as much of it as possible when moving. Regarding the PVC cleaner with silicone, you should just be able to use the PVC welding glues. Usually purple cleaner then PVC welding agent, it actually melts the PVC on both sides of the connection and forms a single bond so that it's essentially the same piece.
I'm unsure on the metal, I think it has more to do with the power of the dust collector, more than the piping in the shop. I can't speak to the HF unit but I will likely be getting one soon. This set up is about as smooth as you can get, what you want to avoid is lots of flexible hosing in the runs.
Happy Wood (and metal) working!
Josh
@@NorthwestCraftsman Personally in your situation I would glue it anyway. Comes time to move cut it in the longest sections possible then use unions to reglue it or add on in the new place. My suggestion for primer was concerning using it and silicone for a better grip with the silicone. I would try not to have screws protruding inside the air flow. Turbulence and snagging chips and sawdust... The 3 in 1; PVC, ABS, CPVC glue would work for the blast gates without the need for silicone. Some need no primer but I do it anyway. Thanks for the reply.
So why didn’t you glue the pipe together?
Great question! I was renting the house this shop was located at and wanted to preserve all my fittings so I could move them to our new house when we got it. I will be gluing them in my new shop
You often hear people warn about static build up with PVC. But, almost every shop vac type vacuum is made from mostly plastic with plastic ridged pipe and hoses. If you're concerned, run ground wiring.
Totally agree Jeff! I saw a lot of feedback online about the dangers of static build up and from all the evidence I saw, it's not a huge concern. I haven't run into many static issues but am also not a commercial shop so I'm not running the DC 24/7.
All commercially available dust hoses have metal wire embedded in it for this exact reason - to prevent static buildup. Professionals will ground this wire to properly discharge any static electricity. Also see NFPA 664 part 7.8. This whole video goes against regulation.
@@PeterKnego this is one hundred percent false. I have two Shop Vac vacuum cleaners that are made 100% from plastic as well as the hose and the attachments. The hose do not have wire in the hoses.
ok what if you were to rub veg oil on them i bett it would cut down a lot on the build up
Must be nice not having to clean up every time you turn around. This is on my list... it's not next, but it's on there hahah.
Absolutely! I should have done it sooner with how nice it is. And I know the feeling, the list is long.
Nice system, **advise from anyone in the know please**, I have recently purchased my first proper dust collector ( apart from shop vacs). It's a 2nd hand Electra beckum which pulls 1000m3h which I believe is about 588cfm. It came with about 6foot of 4" flex and works nicely with table saw etc. Question is , would it be powerful enough to make a bit of fixed system where it pulls up to ceiling and along several feet and down again, so it could be used with a couple of blast gates etc??? Thanks
Hey Stephen! Congrats on the new dust collector! Your question is a great one, unfortunately it's also almost impossible to answer without taking some hand measurements and knowing the exact dimensions of your shop. Your math checks out and based on some quick internet sleuthing, it looks like you may have the 1HP motor model. Mine is 1HP as well and if we assume similar efficiency at the opening (big assumption), it should work for a basic setup like mine. Here are some rules of thumb that should help though:
- Avoid flexible tubing as much as possible, as it has far higher loss rates than rigid smooth pipe
- Cut down on the number of corners
- When a corner is required make the turn as smooth as possible (i.e. 2x45's instead of 1x90). You can also see this with my Wye joints.
- Install blast gates to isolate the line in use only, no more
- Ensure connections are solid to prevent leaks. Cheap blast gates are a major cause of this. If you're only getting a few, I recommend some high quality self cleaning ones. I haven't used any of the ones below but they look pretty good.
Self cleaning blast gate
amzn.to/3Xcgkzh
@@NorthwestCraftsman thanks for the info!! I think motor is 3/4hp as it says .55kw, 1000m3h, but it's the induction motor type with an upper and lower bag , low pressure, high volume collector. Shop is about same size as yours but it's a garage too to park van in etc too so the couple of machines I'd run off this are close to each other. Ducting might be say 2m up, 4m along top and a couple of 2m drops to table saw and planer with flexi on the end connecting to the tool. With a couple of blast gates to isolate suction. Other way of course is just to just keep collector nearby with 2m of flex and connect to each tool as needed. I've got shop vacs further away sorting mitre saw and band saw etc.
Why duct tape and silicone instead of PVC glue?
Great question Chad! Eventually we’ll be moving and I’d like to take as much of it with me as I can
How are your blast gates holding up. After 11 months can you close them 100 percent?
Great question and no, they jam up pretty easily so I clean them out with a golf tee periodically. For bare bones functionality, these are great! I’d like to try out some self cleaning gates for long term though.
Wow you have a long run .what kind are you using for dust collection moter and barre set up.,l ect . How is it working for you.
And how's it been
Yea, it’s pretty long. I have a generic 1 HP dust collector that needs to be upgraded but the system as a whole knocks the socks off my shop vac. It collects dust well and is also much more convenient than lugging my shop vac around.
Thank you, best regards
👍🏾
👍
that much pvc at today's prices would bankrupt me lol
I hate to say it, but it’s only ever going up 😅 it does, however beg the question about whether or not metal ducting, makes more sense for you. I have one viewer that told me metal ducting was exactly the same price as PVC where he lives, so it makes much more sense to do metal ducting all the way through.
I can't get over the fact that no - one is stepping down the sizes for certain equipment. Stepping down to 3" or 2'" increases the volume speed and ensures delivery to the final bag ( instead of being stuck halfway). i have seen a number of commercial shops that do the stepping down! Why not in small shops?
That’s a great observation. My thought is that most residential or hobby level dust collectors don’t have the power to overcome that reduction effectively. I know mine absolutely chokes when I neck it down at a tool.
Did you have to ask for permission to use that background music or can you use that?
I have a subscription to Soundstripe and they license all the music I use minus a couple of tracks I get from the CZcams audio library. If you’re doing any level of content creation that needs background music, I can’t recommend Soundstripe more highly.
Here is a referral link if you’re interested.
app.soundstripe.com/referrals/75288