The worst thing about every modern car (Hint: It's 'ADAS') | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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ADAS great for drivers with driving anxiety, till they F/up then all the red lights & bells start ring & their anxiety multiples experientially
You know the ones I’m talking about those drivers who seem to randomly drive off into dickers or light posts or up the WRONG side of the road seeming to panic
I’ll stick with my upgrade to 2023 spec Holden Commodore VE it knows who boss, me the one that changes her oil & fill her with petrol
Yes fixing the quality of roads would be a better & more effective way of lowering the road toll
So you mentioned relative velocity sitting in your driveway with your handbrake on, and would be no safer if you had your seatbelt on. Well allow me to retort, Vab= Vb-Va, where you're object (a) and wife #2 is object (b) barrelling up your driveway at 150kmh, wouldn't you be safer with your seatbelt on?
You hate new technology, you were probably one of the guys that whined about anti-lock braking and airbags. Don't complain about warnings until you have to live with a new Subaru.
Pro-tip, watch some Cat III ILS landings, the autopilot is doing what the pilots can't.
ADAS , yeah that nasty thing that reminds you about speed limit, its more about help police to fine you, if you have new car with ADAS you cant claim you did not know you were speeding, except if your driving Tesla, that cant even spot the only octagonal traffic sign used all over the planet, only thing all countries could agree on.
I've seen Indian truck drivers here in Gillenbah with half filled Mount Franklin bottles sticky taped to the steering wheel so the truck thinks their hands are still on the wheel while they hurtle along the highway at 100 in their brand new Mercedes trucks on video calls and letting the trucks ADAS "drive for them".
It's absolutely horrifying.
That's exactly why I enjoy driving my '68 mini. I put the key in, start the engine and I drive the car! No annoying lane assist, collision avoidance, adaptive cruise control or seat belt warnings. Just the sound of the vehicle and pure bliss ! Driving a classic vehicle is so enjoyable and yes, you have to actually drive the vehicle and actually change gears! God forbid!
Same with my 1974 VW camper van. Fully engages me in driving it, my brain predicting issues and proactively avoiding them.
Its been hit from behind , gently , three times in over 100k miles since I had it. Rear bumper is a bit more bent than original..
Really excellent forward visibility from having thin A pillars..
74 F-100……..best vehicle I ever owned. No cruise control. No ac. No power brakes or steering. 3 on the tree. Took about 10 minutes to fix anything on that old truck.
Sure, but dri ing something from the 60s is not what he is getting at here, always a tool in the comments.
I drive my my 61 Landy every day. For exactly those reasons. It’s fun it’s simple you’re actually DOING it
Until you actually hit something, or well anything, and suddenly a vehicle made in a recent decade matters an awful lot.
I don't know about you 'old guys' but I'd rather not have the last thing going through my head be the steering wheel, dashboard or windscreen... #airbagssavelives 😂
One of my children has had at least two instances where the lane departure warning has incorrectly assessed where the lane markings are where there has been roadworks and the lanes had been moved and the old markings had been covered up. Her vehicle tried to force its way into the next lane on a motorway at 80kph because it followed the wrong markings. She found out that using the indicators keys you avoid this, but needing to indicate to let the vehicle avoid an accident in an emergency seems counter intuitive.
Same has happened to me in my new(used) Seat Leon PHEV. Lane assist got confused on the motorway driving at 80 through roadworks and I had to fight as I passed a big truck. It nearly collided me with it. Been turning that PoS off since then. However, I've had the car to the shop/garage for an update to its firmware and now it's even more cumbersome to disable.. Next step will be an ODB11 and some long coding to get that useless feature turned off.
I turned this function off immediately after the first time I felt it trying to turn my steering wheel on my new car a few years back. That feeling was quite scary. Never had the function on again on any car I drive since then. The other modern car function that I want permanently off is auto stop-start. But unfortunately this is not possible to do on most cars that come with it without voiding warranties.
I had lane assist when I first bought my new Stinger. And I hated it. The steering wheel felt like it was fighting you for control. I disabled it and kept the warning beeps only.
The best anti-collision system is the steering wheel & the brake pedal & connect them to the brain
ok, that's not acceptable. Between 2 fallible systems I'll trust my own fallible system.
There was an ad on TV a year of so ago showing a little girl trying to exit the driver side rear door of a Hyundai SUV just after the driver pulled over and stopped to the side of the road. The door wouldn't open because the SUV that she was in detected another vehicle approaching from the rear. The very first time I saw that ad I said to my wife "That little girl is now going to think that she doesn't have to look any more because the door won't open if a vehicle is coming. She is going to be in another SUV that doesn't have that feature one day". Then what?
I remember that ad and thinking the same thing, 😂
When I learned to drive, my dad showed me where the pedestrian avoidance sensors on the car were. He showed me the "stay in your lane" control features, the speed control unit, and many other intelligent features that were integrated into the car.
Dad called it "The driver". The steering wheel, coupled with the eyes in my head, the brakes, the accelerator, the windshield wipers and headlight switches (both high and low beams).
All this was coupled together with the integration of "Pay attention, if your cassette tape drops to the floorboard, wait until you can safely pull over before leaning down to get it".
AMAZING features... the driver who pays attention, keeps enough space between vehicles, how to properly use the controls of the car... and a huge stress on PAYING ATTENTION. If you pay attention and know how your car operates, you are far more safe because you have full control over the vehicle AND you know that it is all on you to be a safe driver.
All these safety features on new cars do is make a driver lazy. That study regarding the false sense of safety and taking added risks due to it, totally true via my life's 40 years of driving experience.
I don't want it. I do not want a car with ANY computer module in it whatsoever. My '66 and '69 VW Bug and "party wagon" '78 VW Micro Bus... I think you downunder call it a Combie. Those were perfect for getting me from point A to point B, were fun to drive and I had total control over everything those vehicles did.
It was up to me to be the "safety system".
I know with all the climate panicking folk that due to the type of engine those used, a vehicle without a pollutant control computer will never be made again, but okay, I will trade all the other junk "tech" a car comes with for an emission control computer. Eliminate every other computer and only have emission control and I will buy it. Until then, I will simply rebuild the engines on the ICE vehicles I have now and live my life with a modicum of freedom.
Too bad for you. Numerous studies have shown that ADAS systems make drivers MORE safe in the real world. Period, done with, immovable object the size of a PLANET in the way here.
You cannot always rely on the driver and what happens if the driver conks out behind the wheel?
Well put!
@@christopherkidwell9817
There is a reason behind calling him/her a "driver", dont you think? Otherwise just call him/her a "passenger behind the wheel".
Hilarious story and vehicles you choose to drive, definitely can't talk about safety and old VW's, especially if you're in America, land of the 2.5tonne ute or SUV, inattentive drivers are the reason you will be hurt when you can't manoeuver your high cg tin can leg chopper van away from the moron in the f250 running the red. Even if you have a car from the 2000s, the chance of avoiding the accident by way of handling or brakes would be a large % higher. But you obviously literally want to die on that hill.
Yep. Safety tech in autos, should remain the preserve of the driver. If a person gets behind the wheel, they should also accept the responsibilities that comes with being the driver. If a person is willing for someone else to do their thinking for them while in a vehicle, they should be a passenger in a taxi or bus.
Precisely right. The most annoying thing about my Mazda 3 is the beeping and bonging every time it detects cross traffic while I am turning out of an intersection.... or the panicked "BRAKE!!!" it displays in the HUD when driving down a narrow suburban street with parked cars on either side.
Go into your dashboard, under settings. Look at driver assistant/ settings for the radar system. Look for owners manual wouldn't hurt. You can turn off MOST of the settings that drive you crazy. 😁👌
I just ignore them because I always have my mind on the Job of Driving the car. I've found the 2023 Mazda to be dumber than my previous 2017 Holden Astra.
@@jasonpocaro2730 Thanks for the advice - I am aware that I can turn off "ActivetSense" on each drive (along with the equally annoying "i-Stop"), and that I can reduce the volume of its alerts through settings. The point is that the car's default settings are annoying and unhelpful. There is also the side effect of losing radar cruise control and blind spot monitoring (which is essential on the Mazda 3) when you turn it all off - so there is a trade off!
@@RodneyW Please be careful. There IS a bios and software update available, are you aware of that? It must be done by the dealership and if you ask politely, it's supposed to be free. 😉 It gives you more control of the system and more options to play with. Just saying... 😁👌
@@jasonpocaro2730 Thanks for the tip. I will check.
Actually, numerous investigations show that Adaptive Cruise Control still regularly fails to be able to see motorcycles and motorscooters directly in front of it. I'd hardly call that 'reliable and not sucking'.
You do realise you are supposed to have your foot close to the brake. It's an assistance. It's designed mostly for the slow and boring time stuck in traffic jams or keeping you a safe distance from the car in front and not tailgate like Americans love to do, and wonder why they have mass pile ups! A computer is much faster at reacting in those situations, and while not perfect, far better than letting a driver follow too close and have zero chance to stop in time.
Then don't use it when following a motorcycle/scooter.
@gregb1599 adaptive cruise control is exactly that...a more automated cruise control. You use it on open road/freeway etc. You don't use it on city streets and peak hour traffic
@rjbiker66 Well, I do, and it works great! That's why it's called Adaptive Cruise Control with Stop and Go! Duh!
@@gregb1599Human Factors expert blames driver...
I'm a truck driver. The other night, I was driving down a narrow, steeply undulating gravel road. Much to my horror, the collision warning went off and applied the brakes rather heavily. I travel with a live load, and happened to be heading downhill. I'm sure one can imagine how that's less than desirable. All of this, to apparently risk my life and save a possum! To make matters worse, Volvo Trucks does not make it possible to turn these aides off.
One of many reasons I quit driving. BTW, Volvo trucks have factory satellite link that reports every action on the truck directly to Volvo. It also means that someone can hack your truck and take over control from anywhere in the world. Think about it. If someone can take control of the trucks computer, they can turn off your lights at night, give you full throttle going down hill, disable your engine brake and you service brakes via the ABS. Sounds like fun...right? Things are worse than you think. The computer in a Freightliner can take over your steering.
That's the truly scary thing about these so-called safety systems. I'll never forget my stepmother telling me one of the first things her father taught her about driving is that you do not hit the brakes or attempt to swerve for an animal that is in the road unless you have plenty of time to do so. No animal is worth potentially causing an accident.
@robertharvilla4881 Absolutely, 100%. The only thing you can do to abort the braking is accelerate and pull yourself straight. ABS is good on sealed roads, not so much on gravel roads. You have a reasonable amount of turbo lag to overcome first if you have been coasting on engine brakes downhill. Newer drivers are the concern in a lot of situations, as they've never driven without the basic ABS /EBS aides, let alone the "advanced" ones. Many of them are blissfully unaware of the heavy lifting something like EBS does for them on the daily.
@@wakachang7543I Don't know about Volvo's. But for our work trucks I just find wherever the lane assist camera is and obscure it. Disables it immediately.
@georgereed4003 Yeah, I can turn the lane assist off, but obscuring the camera would require me to put a sticker or something on the windshield. I can imagine I would open up a can of worms with the employer doing that. To be clear, it's an edge case. You get a ton of beeping and such in typical roadl driving conditions with cars in turning bays, but if you're on the accelerator, it is fine. The possum setting it off is not normal and caught me by surprise.
When I was a young bloke, there was a sticker doing the rounds that stated "Ban low performance drivers, not high performance vehicles". As time goes on I believe in that statement more and more as the ability of many drivers is getting worse. I believe that ADAS & the ubiquity of auto transmissions are increasing the problems as drivers are getting lazy and don't think that driving is an activity that requires their complete attention anymore.
I love when autos are blamed. They came out in the 40s, they are not to blame here.
@@jim9930 driving on two wheels at 60mph in a ute shows who is the issue to me. No need to show off your lack of ability to slow down to safely navigate a corner to friends. I know guys like you with similar stories. Yep, I like living so I don't go in cars with them!
My daughter's Ford Explorer actively fights you when you need to cross the centre line to avoid the massive potholes and damaged road edges that are common on even relatively major rural roads.
You have to turn the blinker on so it doesn’t fight you just found this out myself.Going to look bit odd going down the road turning on the blinker to avoid pot holes. Best one I hit destroyed 2 rims just had to keep my line ie car coming the other way. I know of the very sad side of motorcycle verses pot hole.
See my comment.
Have you reported that defect to the manufacturer?
of the potholes? or of the car? I think that Ford would consider that a feature not a flaw, besides not my car, only drive it occassionally@@davidvanderklauw
Train the driver, not the car!
That opens the can of worms that I have been espousing for decades; ALL drivers should undergo mandatory license renewal testing every five years. No exceptions. That should get 80% of the dickheads off the road and reduce the road toll.
@@mwds5240 I was thinking advanced driver training/accident avoidance, not the pathetic parallel park and 3 point turn exam.
Absolutely... In the parking issue; bloody hell. I had to show a perfect reverse park to get my license now and ECU does it for you. We are dumbing down the population.@@pyrobob208
@pyrobob208 advanced driver training shows no long-term reduction in accident rates.
@@rjbiker66 Realy? That has to be the biggest load of rubbish I've heard in a while. OK... So, let scrap CPD for just about every professional discipline out there. The building industry certainly doesn't need it. All the medicos can now get on with it for the rest of there lives and the trainer wheels are off... OMG, some people...
The part saying that the safer the driver feels, the more risk he/she takes is so damn true. It reminded me of a friend of mine saying that if carmakers installed a sharp metal spike on the steering wheel pointing directly at the driver´s chest instead of airbags would make roads everywhere 10 times more safe! Love your work John, stay awesome!
Well before airbags that was how most deaths occurred impaled by you steering wheel. Airbags work driver assist doesn't. Don't get confused.
@@zorbakaput8537 You mean before seat-belts and collapsible steering columns?
The idea is to focus the drivers mind on the job at hand, not let them think they are sitting in their lounge room watching the TV.
It's unlikely it was Mut0mbos friend that came up with the idea unless his friends name was Gordon Tullock. Look up Tullock's spike.
There was an experiment in Sweden where they removed all the road signs and safety improved due to drivers having to be more responsible.
Because there are too many people driving 5 over the sign no matter the weather and road conditions because the sign says it's ok.
yeah that's in Sweden though, where people really are educated and responsible
And it means less distraction for the drivers.
IN USA, the double nickel raised the road death rate in some states.
People would likely drive safer if there was a sharp spike in the centre of the steering wheel 😛
I rented a car recently that had all the safety features. The dashboard and wing mirror distracted me every time I was overtaken or passed someone, the lane keeping worked according to its mood and the front parking sensors screamed at me in stop start traffic. It also had adaptive cruise which felt like it was braking despite there being no vehicle in the lane I was in! Five minutes parked turning the crap off made me feel safer.
You’re spot on. The adas is a hindrance rather than a protector. I found myself being far more distracted with that stuff on. I go through and turn everything off!
Also with the seat belts, there’s trucks out there that will not let you use the seat belt until the engine is running.
You drive with the radio off then? If a bing annoys you that's interesting. Maybe you shouldn't be driving if it's that distracting, imagine a car horn!
@@Low760 you’re a bit simple, are you? Don’t answer, I can clearly see you are. Carry on there and let the car do the driving for you. 🤦🏼♂️
@@TheIrishman007 I don't have any cars with Adas or assistance. I drive plenty of trucks that do the bungs and bongs and it doesn't phase me as I am paying attention.
I suspect you're the simple one who can't ignore or turn off a sensor.
@@Low760 I don’t have a car with those aids either. And I also drive trucks, bomb truck on a live shot. You got and drive these new cars with Adas and you’ll soon be pulling fuses and turning all that shit off pretty quick. Especially the lane departure that corrects the steering for you!
Lane assist is a nightmare when old and new lines exist during roadworks
I had my one and only serious accident from falling asleep with the cruise on one sunny afternoon . I had driven the same road ''briskly '' for two and a half years , to and from work about an hour each way . I was stopped by plod one day down a hill at around 113 kmh . From there on i curbed my enthusiasm for 130km/hr bends etc and started using cruise control . Two weeks later , the aforementioned detour into a large tree occurred . Long slow roads are soporific in the extreme and i fell foul . Nobody ever fell asleep driving around a racetrack .
Yes this is proven that we become blind to the road
Used to be my reasoning I'd drive everywhere so damn fast in my six speed cts v, cus I was always tired and hey won't fall asleep with some adrenaline pumping through me 😂
I have come used to the very conservative settings of the ADAS in my MY16 Subaru Outback, basically ignoring the early crash alert warnings because almost always there was no chance of a crash. But I had a loaner of a current model and the constant squeaking bells and alerts were f*cking annoying to the max. As a motorcyclist, I scan the roads in all directions, particularly in busy traffic, and I bring those skills to my driving… but the ADAS kept telling me off because my eyes were not where it required them. Truly annoying. And what is annoying becomes ignored.
You are kidding! Some moron has programmed into a computer where he thinks your eyes should be pointing!
Retired pilot here. I can well understand how you could be lulled into complacency. Fortunately for me, the first plane I got to fly regularly as the sole pilot had an autopilot that would work fine - until it suddently stopped working without warning and the aircraft nose would just randomly go up/left/right/down. This kept me nice and alert and so I learnt to fly NOT trusting the automation, while still using it to make some of my tasks a bit easier. (As soon as the autopilot fucked up during a flight, I'd just turn it off for the rest of the flight - and I only used it when I was the sole occupant, to avoid white knuckling any passengers.)
Now, on the road, I use all the ADAS gear in my SUV but automatic braking won't work when a car in front changes lane and there's another car in the distance that's stopped at a red light. If you don't pay attention, you'll slam into it at your cruising speed. Lane keeping? Ha! Works with SOME lane markings, but not all. Best to keep your eye on the road, not on the distractions inside your car! That faulty aeroplane autopilot taught me some very good lessons.
Autopilots are great but they can't recover you from a stall/spin or make your flying judgement good. TCAS is awesome but it won't do that either. Most GA crashes aren't due to autopilot failure but poor GA training that results in poor decisions pre-flight and during flight. VFR into IMC, not checking weight and balance, turning back to the airport after one engine goes out with low energy/altitude: bad decisions from terrible GA training from inexperience young CFIs. It's similar to driving, most accidents were, are and will be caused by the massively inadequate hands on training and LACK of the proper mental training for good judgement. In driving, there is no pre driving training taught (checking your gear, your cars systems, tires, brakes signales), in motorcycle and pilot training, there is. Driving is MASSIVELY undertrained and needless deaths and loss of property are the resuls. Technological systems will likely NEVER alter this significant reality.
Hope you were trained well as a pilot.
I was on a tree job and the customer wanted all the logs stacking across the garden, through a gate between a few shrubs.
I borrowed a 3 Ton dumper, every time it's "Safety" sensor noticed a twig it wailed at me 'An object has been detected' from a crappy speaker aimed right at my face. It was more distracting than 5 beers and blonde. I hung my hat and shirt on it.
That's exactly what I need today...5 beers and a blonde. Great line. I will use it with your permission sir.
@@orthopraxis235 Dig in mate.
Glad to see the information on the prevalence of people who feel safer increasing the risks they are willing to take and the issue with skill stagnation when people are not required to use the skills because of "safety" features.
That's been identified as a real problem in the airline industry. Pilots spend most of their time monitoring autopilot, and even when they fly the plane manually it is protected against stalling etc. by electronic interventions. The problem is they still need basic stick and rudder flying skills when autopilot and all the safety systems fail (as in the Air France 447 Airbus crash into the Atlantic). So there's been a move to get them back to practicing "real" flying.
Yep I'm sure that lane departure warnings, lane keeping assist and autonomous emergency braking have only further enabled phone-addicted dipshits to feel like they can scroll through instagram as they drive
I drove a hire car last year and didn’t realise it had this ‘collision protection’ BS. It scared the crap out of me when it went off and I wasn’t anywhere near having a collision. Absolutely dreadful.
Been there with my previous car an Audi A3, scared the living daylight out of me! Felt like a really safe system, scaring the driver...🙄
A timely video. I'm in the UK and Peugeot (don't hate me!) contacted me directly only 4 days ago. They asked about my driving experience and history and given my age, amount of experience (my licence allows me to drive all vehicles) etc they then asked if I would help fill in some important information they were after. It looks like Peugeot are getting a lot of complaints about certain things from consumers and they were seeking more detailed information.
The forms I was asked to fill in were vast and fully inclusive. They concentrated on gearbox snags, forward visibility and above all else - ADAS.
With their ADAS they were particularly interested in audible warnings/visible warnings and affects on steering control. Yes - my vehicle will auto steer in some situations. Not just steer but also prevent me steering to avoid certain things!!!!
Personally, I think that ADAS systems are being created and released without proper real world testing. They don't include all situations. You're definitely onto something.
That's why I'm sticking with my faithful ML Triton with the 3.2L diesel though I will admit that lately I do use the cruise control purely for safety reasons as I've found it prevents a devastating sudden loss of weight in my wallet.
The first time I experienced something like this was when I was getting a ride in downtown Chicago. I think it was a new Lexus. We were going from a meeting in one part of the city to the central business district. It was midafternoon and there was almost no traffic. We were having an animated conversation about business and the ADAS system was spouting warnings almost nonstop. The driver just ignored them all. It was very comical to me.
It's a system that trains drivers they can safely ignore the warnings.
I would add the blind spot detector to the adaptive cruise control. Mine beeped on me yesterday to tell me I had a car creeping up my left hand side. Otherwise totally agree.
No disagreement with you John. An observation. When I worked with the NSW Staysafe Committee in the 1980s, its adviser was Dr David Herbert, probably one of the finest road safety researchers and practitioners ever. David was a stickler for proper analysis of data and was a strong critic of many so called road safety campaigns that he would prove had no effect on road deaths or injuries. Back then, the only real, proven, “silver bullets” for the road toll were compulsory seat belt wearing and random breath testing. Both proven to work based on the data. David was the Snowy Hydro Scheme engineer who installed seat belts in all the Snowy vehicles and made their wearing compulsory to reduce the death and injury toll on the scheme. No one died in a vehicle crash after that. I learned a lot from David, including healthy scepticism about claims of other “silver bullets” in road safety. There aren’t that many. Cheers.
Excellent point re: safety ratings. A lower rating is meaningless to me if it's due to the car not having the full suite of ADAS. I want to know how safe the car will be in a crash. I couldn't care less if the car has adaptive cruise control, lane-keeping assist, etc.
Good summary. Some new cars allow the driver to turn off some of these so called safety features. BUT when you stop, they all revert to their original "on" settings. Thus promoting a dangerous level of anger every time the driver re-starts the car. Mother knows best? Mebbe not.
And to support your other point, my first car was a 1961 Rover 90, a heavy car with inadequate drum brakes which rolled like a boat in a heavy swell when cornering - other than with extreme caution. That old tank taught me anticipation, caution and how to turn myself into a living/concentrating safety feature.
This toll up 20% in Vic this year. The mind numbing speed limit on rural roads and the attention depriving (while focused on your speedo) 40 and 50 urban limits are surely causations. The (I’m seen to be doing something) bureaucrats are complicit in this increased road trauma.
But through covid the toll dropped so...
No one counts Victoristan for anything.
And the voters. They elect horrendous candidates.
my first though was about cars being under engined and over boosted and the rise of CVT's, but you are absolutely correct ADAS is far worse! we are replacing driver skill with gizmos and electronics, it leads to overconfidence and lack of attention to road conditions!
I work moving cars at a massive 2nd-hand car dealership. The modern ones drive me fookin NUTS! Bloody pings, boings and peeps cause me to literally shout ‘STFU’ until they stop!
Yep I do agree. took the wind out of me by braking as I was going up hill with parked cars on my left, emergency braked, luckily no one behind me.
Did the same with cars turning left or boom gates in the process of lifting.
The only modern feature that I miss when I get out of a newer vehicle is the Auto Hold. You can get rid of everything else.
G’day JC, I drive a Mercedes sprinter with ADAS installed in my role as a paramedic with Ambulance Victoria. Having driven these vehicles for approximately three years, I find them frustrating & dangerous to be frank! When the ADAS system activates the ambulance jerks suddenly to a halt, scares the crap out of the unsuspecting patient & endangers the second paramedic seated unrestrained in the back attending to that patient. I frequently experience the ADAS misinterpreting inclines or declines on the road surface when attempting to reverse or move forward. The frequent interruptions to my concentration whilst maneuvering through traffic whilst driving lights and sirens just adds more needless distraction when my concentration is required elsewhere. Most ambo’s I talk to feel the same & resent the frequent distractions whilst driving!! Tbh I prefer driving the older Mercedes sprinters as a result!
Just my two cents worth 👍
I don't know about the USA or Oz but here in the UK we can train for and sit an advanced driving test. I did mine with the Institute of Advanced Motorists and RoSPA (Royal Society for the prevention of Accidents) offer similar.
I also trained as a driving instructor and on both courses, something I had to iron out was inappropriate indicator use. I'd indicate lane changes when the indicator was of no benefit to other road users maybe where a road splits into two different directions or if a sign showed road narrowing due to roadworks ahead or similar. No other road users about and I'd need to move left, or right, so I'd indicate. My trainers convinced me that all I was doing was showing a lack of awareness of my surroundings. I was indicating to fresh air whereas the correct procedure is to take effective observations and indicate if it would benefit other road users,
After a while, it began to make sense to me that if I had to indicate to warn others of my intentions when changing lanes, perhaps it wasn't a safe time to do so but indicating when there's no one else about did demonstrate a lack of observation.
Along comes my new Ford which bollocks me if I change lanes without indicating. So I've switched it off. It also warns me of speed limits and regularly gets it wrong, dinging and donging at me that I'm exceeding a 20 limit when I am in fact in a 30 zone only its camera missed the 30 signs. So that's off now too!
It also plays hell if I remove my seatbelt but we aren't required to wear one if carrying out a manouvre that includes reversing. Never could spell manouvre.
Thanks for the very informative and entertaining vids and keep 'em coming, dude!
I got a ticket because in Eco mode I lifted off the throttle to slow down and the car sailed on. It was at 36mph, so I now drive in Normal mode to have some more speed control with my throttle foot. Now I realise I have to be as aware of the safety software as of the driving conditions, so more to think about. The car can’t detect black clad pedestrians in the dark and rain though, and there is a disclaimer informing me of this, so the bongs and pings are seemingly random, which is not good for blood pressure.
Lane keep is a pain! Even the salesman said that "I'd want to turn that off" - he was right.
It is so sensitive to seeing lines in the road which aren't actual lanes....
Clear and (relatively) concise - just the way we like it 😉
Coincidentally, some things my old Toyota and new-ish bike have in common are: mechanically driven throttle (cable), purely hydraulic brakes, purely mechanical steering (both with the requisite servo assists in the car, but by no means decoupled from my raw input), and only my skill and judgement in control.
Thank you, by the way, for helping develop said judgement. It has saved my skin more times than I care to count, and keeps me stress-free any time I drive or ride.
My 1998, Fairlane has all the things I want and none of the things that I hate.
I have purchased two cars with the intention of replacing it, but both of them had unnecessary alarms and nanny state features. As a result, I’m driving a 25-year-old car which is doing an amazing job. It is extremely comfortable, has Cruise control for, anti-lock braking, Air Conditioning, incredibly comfortable seats etc.
The only alarms are helpful ones, such as letting me know that the headlights are on when the ignition is off.
In my mind cars, Pete at around 2000 ad when computers were timing the engine and gear changes, but not controlling the driver.
I’m so sick of all of the modern safety protocols and electric windows that I’m about to place an order for a new basic spec Land Cruiser 79 V8 manual 4x4 to return to a much simpler rugged offroad vehicle (don’t worry I do drive most the time off-road/rough gravel road)
Why do you need to buy a new car? Buy secondhand. The new 79 is now a truck officially by gvm.
@@Low760 Why a new car?
Because a new one costs approximately $20,000 less than a second hand one!
Yes this is absolutely crazy.
As for GVM?
It’s not going to be a problem because I learnt years ago to keep it as simple and lightweight as possible.
A number of times both of my cars (different manufactures) lane keeping have tried to stop me from moving over to avoid hitting a car in the lane next to me that has started to move into my lane. The auto brakes often starts braking when the car in front changes lanes to turn right or left and a few times they have slammed the brakes on to avoid hitting these cars that are no longer in my lane. The best feature is adaptive cruise which works well.
I’m a truck driver in the UK.I’ve had the automated brake system do a totally unnecessary emergency brake as it saw a dark line in asphalt that it decided was a vehicle ahead of my vehicle and slammed the brakes on .As the trailer had 27 tons of cargo in it at the time it wasn’t a pretty experience.
I absolutely hate these unnecessary so called driver aids fitted to all the new trucks.
I rented a Jeep Renegade this past weekend. Leaving the airport in a heavy rain, the lane-keep misread the wet road and yanked the car back so hard that it threw the car into a skid on the slippery road from which my long experience allowed me to recover without crashing.
In tinkering with the settings, I was able to turn down the sensitivity, but not off, although I may have missed some control in the complex menus. I spent the rest of the weekend driving gingerly and aware that I did not have full control of the car.
This resonates with me. Cashed up after tax time, I went out to buy a brand new vehicle. Yay! After a couple of months of test driving and researching alternative options, I ended up buying a 7 year old model in perfect condition with stupidly low mileage. I use the FFS expletive often enough to other vehicles on the road; I don't want to be doing it to my own vehicle as well.
John! Once again you are spot on the systems are not as good as what they are all cracked up to be! I have been driving trucks for 40 years long distance and local and I have never had an accident! I was recently in a new MAN truck which was equipped with a collision avoidance system, A vehicle in front of me put on it’s left indicator and turned in to the service station I normally leave 3 to 4 seconds between myself and the vehicle in front so I therefore timed when the road was clear and put my foot down to accelerate back up to speed next thing I know I’m hanging in the seatbelt my coffee is on the windscreen and I’ve come to a rapid stop shrouded in tire smoke, from the trailer I was towing which did not have ABS etc, The poor tradie behind me and his Rodio Ute and he’s 8 x 5 trailer ended up on the footpath jackknifed and he was very angry! I have since later found out that a very large transport company in Australia have approximately 20 similar incidents every month which involved very experienced drivers!
Those stupid things- they love to pick up shadows. Nothing better than driving on ice, and the Onguard activating the brakes…..
@@thetowndrunk988 oh man that’s scary
You definitely sound inexperienced and why don't you have a trailer with ebs?
If you have any integrity you would refuse to drive those dangerous trucks until the problem is fixed.
Yep, much better to drive my old Smog monster, @@davidvanderklauw
I have covered my adas cameras due to the level that it sucks. Shut it all down. The last straw was when it swerved me at a cyclist rather than get a little closer to the centre lines. Emergency brakes slammed on 7 times when there was no issue, the constant beeping does wonders for my ADHD, it just was doing my head in. I wish I could turn the parking sensors off by default too but I cant figure that one out. If I have an accident and it is my fault, I will wear it but when I feel the car is putting me in danger but I would still be responsible as the driver, well stuff that.
Great video. I have a few gripes with the ADAS features on my wife's 2020 Peugeot, even though they are mild by today's standards:
Collision warning system goes off every time I get even slightly close to another car.
Lane assist is bloody awful and always gets turned off on longer journies as it will actively fight against me changing lanes unless I use the indicators - even if there is no-one I need to to indicate to!
But the absolute worst one actually relates to the "comfort blinks" on the indicators. I don't even think this is technically a driver aid but IMO it's downright dangerous. Basically once you have touched the indicator stalk, even if you just intended to signal for half a second, it will flash the indicators for a minimum of five seconds and there is NO WAY TO CANCEL IT. I have encountered situations where someone has actually pulled out on me at a roundabout due to the car deciding to carry on indicating even though it was only my intention to show a very brief signal. Why is that even a necessary feature at all? Funnily enough my 2008 Audi also has the same feature but it is far less problematic.
While we're on the subject of useless car tech, don't get me started on the new Kia I hired a few months back that had a peculiary of the hill start assist and electric parking brake systems that worked together to make it impossible to reverse up a steep hill without heel-toeing the brake pedal (it was a manual, so god knows how they hadn't thought this particular eventuality through).
Basically, the parking brake doesn't release unless your foot is on the brake. Fine, I understand that. The car has a hill start assist system, so what you're meant to do is release the park brake and then let the car automatically hold on the hill while you move your foot to the throttle and lift the clutch to set off.
However. HOWEVER. Get this. The hill start assist system seemed completely unable to comprehend that I might want to reverse UP the hill.
It worked OK setting off forward uphill, and it worked OK to hold the car on a downward slope, but it WOULD NOT work when reversing uphill against the gradient of the road.
Now, maybe I missed something in the manual about this (I didn't have time to look at it, and honestly couldn't wait to be out of the car). But surely these things should be intuitive. I haven't needed to look at the manual for any other car I've ever owned to find out how to do a hill start. I already know how to do a hill start in a manual car. I've been driving for almost twenty years. I'm perfectly capable of deciding when I want to release the handbrake too. If I want to release it without having my foot on the brake, surely as the driver that's my perogative?
I'm not a luddite. I like technology. But modern cars just seem to be burdened with so much unnecessary shit.
I'm currently driving a hire car and it beeps at me WHEN I OPEN THE DOOR.
I've left the headlights on twice because I've turned off the noise in my head.
Hire car would be new with all the beeps, and new cars have auto headlights.
How are you leaving them on?
Best thing i love about my civic rs is that you turn it on and its good to go. No noises or anything annoying that turns itself on everytime i turn the car on.
I'm a part time delivery driver. My company gave me a 2023 Nissan Frontier pickup. It has adaptive cruse control and I was using it because my entire driving sessions are monitored including speed when a vehicle about 6 or 7 car lengths ahead of me turned into a parking lot of a store and there rear bumper was not all the way into the entrance but about 1/2 a meter inside the fog line and not impeding my lane at all. seeing this I didn't think anything about it until the truck decided there was a problem and slammed the brakes on at 35mph ( 56km/hr) to almost 0 and caused the vehicle behind me to slam into me. Technically I was not at fault and the car behind me received a ticket for following to close for conditions. I still revived a mark on my record from the company and will need to wait 12 months for it to clear. I have 36 years experience driving even with class 2 lic and haven't even had a parking ticket in over 20 years. I'm not impressed with the new tech..
My car complains if I try to change lane without signalling, how do certain well known makes of car drivers that rarely use their indicators cope.
Great as usual John
45yesrs as a diesel fitter wit over 2million Ks at the wheel and no accedent yet I am with you,.I have no desire to upgrade my 08, Dodge Ram without all that crap.I Only have to deal with ABS brakes which are a real pain on dirt or in mud they increase braking distance
Keep up you good work. Look forward to every view
Exactly right, let's remove personal responsibility for driving a 2 ton vehicle. That way we can do everything but be aware of our surroundings.
Lucky Escape from HAL. Hi John, I enjoy your work, thankyou. I've been driving for many years, and bought my first European car in 2021 which has lane keep assist & autonomous braking. On one of my first drives I was in the left hand lane of a major road - and my lane was merging from 3 to 2 lanes. There was a semi on my right, but I had sufficient room & time to accelerate and merge in front of it leaving a safe gap. As my lane merged it had a full white line to my left, and a dashed line to my right, forming a vertex in front of the car where the lines converged. As I started to cross into the other lane, safely ahead of the semi, the car applied the autonomous brakes, bringing the car to a complete stop on the vertex of the lines. Luckily my reaction was to move as far left as I could and the semi was able to get past me without incident, but as you can appreciate this left me in a state of shock. I was advised by the dealer that this would not happen if I had indicated as I was merging, which I always do. Being new to the car I probably automatically hit the wipers instead of the indicators, a mistake everyone new to a European car makes once or twice. I don't think HAL should be allowed to kill me for that though. I have now seen that where lanes merge (here in QLD) the right hand dashed lines have been blacked out for the last 50m or so to remove the converging line effect, so I suspect that I am not the only one to have had this happen.😬
It’s so true.
Our garage is quite small. In ‘Merica it measures 18.5’x18.5’, so we only have about a foot on any side of our normal sized vehicles when parked. Our newer vehicle pitches a fit when we park or back out of the garage as it insists we are in imminent danger. I try to talk it off the ledge but it never listens. At least it has a temporary silence “feature”.
I used to drive a Volvo that beeped at me when I intentionally drifted out of my lane to avoid a trash can or snow bank.
I recently bought a dashcam and it had an ADAS option. I had no clue what ADAS was, so I did a search...
Well, that's a nice gimmick in a dashcam. I have not enabled it, for the reasons you state, John.
EDIT: I might enable it and throw up a quick review of the 'system'.
Ya dead right have fitted switches on my 4x4 to disconnect several things on ute just so I can actually drive it down our dirt roads particularly wet road we have brakes coming on and eventually stopping the vehicle not a problem anymore
You're quite right. They used to call them idiot lights. There's a reason for that.
Whoever invented the start/stop system wants a Darwin award. You may think keyless entry is worse - this encourages you to think your key is some kind of tedious afterthought. But you'd be wrong - my car can actually be 'double-locked' - which means someone can literally be trapped in the vehicle unable to get out. A stupendous contribution to car lethality.
Remember there was a air crash where the 2 planes were flying towards each other and the computer was telling both pilots to do the correct maneuver but the air traffic controller was telling the pilots to do something different which would have also made the planes miss each other. The problem was that one pilot followed the computer and the other followed the controller resulting in crash
They changes the rules after that. Screw ATC and follow your instruments.
And they changed the training after that.
I'm not really a car buff although I find your videos entertaining; that said, the only car I wish I'd kept was my 1973 VW beetle 1303. Bought it in 94 and ran it as a daily driver, only car I had at the time. Such a simple machine, just jump in and drive, reliable as well. The only new parts were the consumables, tyres battery spark plugs etc. The only driver aid electronics consisted of the speedo and the fuel gauge. If I needed to do maintenance like change a belt, my total tool requirement was a screwdriver and an adjustable spanner. I bet it's still running happily today.
Hi John,
Thanks again for a great video. 3 years ago I bought my wife a Mazda 3 GT. We are generally very happy with it. She drives it locally whereas I do all the country miles. This was the first new car we purchased in decades and were astonished by the crap it was doing. We insisted that some things were disabled;
Lane assist for one. I did very well in kindergarten; learning how to colour in between the lines and now see the practical application of this skill. What I don’t need is some closet-dwelling boffin tell me how to drive.
The cruise control is one thing we are stuck with. But, it means I don’t have to look out the big glass thing out the front to see what I’m coming up behind.
The accelerator also has a mind of its own. To affect an overtaking manoeuvre one has to book it in the Wednesday before.
It inspires me to get my 1973 E9 back on the road.
PS. I hope I never come back as a starter motor.
M
Spot on again! My truck occasionally wants me to pull over and take a nap! I swear at it, my wife reminds me again its a computer and I remind her again that none of my vehicles will ever tell me what to do ever! All the best...
Had a car built in the 70s that came with many useful features such as auto on headlight, auto wipers, emergency brake application, blind spot monitoring. Though it lacked the incredibly effective electronic stability control and ABS brakes, also lacked airbags and a crash worthy body shell.
Also the other features required two very important inputs, the driver to be awake, and concentrating.
Yep My first car an EH Holden no crap as a mechanic it was as hot as I could make it and included refrigerated AC IN 1981
RULE NO 1 DON'T CRASH
Hilarious. Like you guys never have off days...
It's a fact that as soon as there is a test, the car makers will do whatever it takes to look good in that test. It does not matter that the test does not relate well to real world safety; what matters is that the manufacturers can trumpet their 5 star success in their advertising. I have always been cynical about ENCAP, and your video shows just how right I am in my opinion. Thanks, John, for this illuminating video.
Or in the case of VW: Perfect the test and screw the rest.
Finally someone is saying what is plainly obvious; more electronic babysitting 'safety' features = more human drivers becoming more inept and lazy whilst heavily intoxicated with these electronic driving aids. The comparison to pilots being alarmingly more reliant on 'auto-pilot' features is indeed the equivalent warning sign. Yet, when caught up in all the auto safety spin there's nothing more attractive than 5 stars, right?
Thank you Mr. Cadogan for this video, I have been saying this for years that ADAS is one of the larhest annoyances in modern driving and only helps the chronically innatentive who should not be driving in the first place. The only thing this techonolgy seems to be good for is making people (especially in Teslas) go viral when the perform abject insanity on the road. Stunts such as driving from one location to the next with thier hands off the wheel, sleeping or other explicit activities are becoming commonplace. The last car i bought thankfully doesnt have these features(the most advanced thing in it is ESC which actually helps in sticky situations)and I like the fact my dashboard is clear of warning lights(since in most cars when you turn ADAS it gives you a warning light)since the previous car I owned gave me anxiety over the warning lights that would spring up without cause or pause.
One thing you didnt mention Mr. Cadogan is that these wonderful ADAS systems add more to the cost of a car, thats one of the reasons new car prices are so high. Alot od the ADAS zealots hate this but what the president of MG Austrailia said is true as it relates to the lack of ADAS in thier affordable models like the MG 3 and MG 5. He said that adding those features(and im paraphrasing)will move the cost of the cars beyond the reach of people looking in that sections of the market(you know, low income entry level buyers who need something that can do the job reliably without the extra cost). When ANCAP actually crash tests those cars (dont think they will get more than 3 stars) look at the child and adult occupant score and test dummy graphs, those are the most important in determining whether the car is safe, not if the ADAS can stop the car if an ant is on the road.
Quite often, while rounding a corner, the safety camera in my Audi will "spot" a pedestrian in the cross-hairs and assume I haven't seen them or I'm going to straighten the wheel to mow them down, so it gives a loud BONG! and flashes a red triangle on the dashboard ... brilliant, create a distraction just at the second it thinks I need "assistance".
That's what's so infuriating - exactly when you're dealing with a potential hazard, it distracts you...
Agree 100 percent. My ex37 has none of that garbage. I had a rav Toyota rental in Florida. It felt like I was driving in a severe crosswind. It was the lane keeping assistance. Once this was turned off It was all good.
This tech is also creating a generation of lazy inattentive dangerous drivers. No need to worry my technical angel on my shoulder will protect me and my loved ones.
My wife had a Polo that would slam on the anchors and scare the living daylight out of us whenever we drove forward out of her mum's driveway. It didn't like the angle between the drive and the street, and it wasn't that much of a gutter/street camber there. No other car we had would do it, nor a plethora of extended family cars. You are right about great ideas being executed badly.
It is clearly a defect. Did you insist the dealer rectify?
@@davidvanderklauw No, I stopped driving out forward and have now replaced the Polo with an Atto3. It goes out forwards with no problem, but her parents have both passed away recently, so there's that (as JC would say).
I have a 14" Grand Cherokee with the collision avoidance system. It's been pretty good with only the occasional false warning, usually if the road is curving and a car is not fully entering a turn lane. Plenty of room to get by, but the car gets confused since you are still technically heading toward the car due to the gradual curve. It has adjustable sensitivity and alerts you prior to engaging so if you hit the brakes it will not engage. It does not have lane keep assist (I think it came 1 year later).
The collision avoidance has never beat me to braking in an emergency stop. The best it's done is that it braked at the same time I hit the brake in a heavy traffic, short stop situation. It caused me to brake a bit harder than necessary, which luckily didn't cause the car behind me to hit me, but I'm always concerned about that and often modulate my braking to give drivers behind me as much room as possible without hitting the car in front of me. This system doesn't do that, it just brakes at will. My wife said it did save her from a collision once when she came around a curve and found road workers were closing a lane but had not yet put up any signage or warnings, so the traffic in her lane all had to panic merge and caused a panic stop. On the flip side, it did erroneously hit the brakes on me once when a silver potato chip bag flew off a trash truck in front of me. It was shiny and landed in my lane and caused the car to immediately brake. Luckily there were no vehicles behind me or I might have been hit, or road raged for brake checking as other drivers would not have seen any reason for me to brake. I keep the sensitivity down. I do find the BLIS (blind spot monitoring) to be a very useful feature, although the parking assist is not smart as it will beep and warn you of obstacles in front of you while in the car is in reverse so you think someone is coming behind you, when in reality it's clear. Oversight by the engineers, or no room on the cost cutting chip they chose to use.
I've rented cars with the latest features and find it to be overbearing and kind of annoying, especially with it tugging the wheel if you bank curves close to the line, or use the whole lane to avoid a wide vehicle or a drifter. I think these systems may help some since so many drivers are not very alert, or should I say distracted. It may make them more distracted, but here in the US at least, many don't pay attention, ADIS or not so at least someone or something is paying attention.
If they want to improve safety, the real task would be to disable mobile phone apps when driving, perhaps limit texting to voice to text, or limit it completely, or perhaps just enforce the anti-texting laws.
I'd suggest it actually *is* a Triton thing. Most cars don't give you audible seatbelt warnings until they are actually moving, or collision warnings on an S bend even if they warn about it in the user manual. About the only thing I do is turn the lane keeping off on narrow country roads because it doesn't understand roads with non-existant or very narrow lanes. Are ABS and traction control technically "ADAS"? I suspect those have probably helped to prevent a few accidents.
Nope. Been this way since the 2007 Mazda Tribute
Stability control is not traction control. Electronic Stability Control (ESC) alone saves over 10k lives per year in the United States. ESC is not a type of ADAS.
I've had a similar triton for the last two years with no problem. It's a very complex topic.
Great episode with volumes of research contained therein, have to watch it twice to catch all the references. Love the frank appraisal and the no-BS approach. Merry Christmas!
Agreed. Full of good info.
I absolutely love visual blind spot warnings in my Toyota. Perfectly recognizable in my peripheral vision when it's activated, not making stupid noises. Lane assist is useless, emergency brake only warned once or twice when inadequate...I can live with that.
I almost crashed twice thanks to violent interference of lane holding assistants.
In the first case, it was trying to send me into a concrete barrier set up to protect the ongoing roadwork, but the temporary lane markings were worn off and the assistant snapped back to the original markings.
In the second case, I was attempting to make way for a emergency vehicle according to german law (Rettungsgasse), right as the emergency vehicle passed me, the assistant tried to yeet me back into the lane used by said emergency vehicle.
In both cases it were customer vehicles I drove to/from our garage, I knew the technology of those vehicles and was prepared with both hands on the wheel, still they managed to have a significant input on the steering. I have no doubts that both cases would have resulted in a serious crash if a driver was overly relaxed during long distance travels etc. or worn out after work etc. either directly by sending the car into a crash or via a overreaction to the sudden input.
Spot on John. lane keep assist so f****ng annoying and dont get me started on stop go shit. Yeah auto cruse has its uses that's about it. if your awake at the wheel you shouldn't need it.
Lane assist probably saved my life a week or so ago. Fell asleep at the wheel late at night coming home from work. took the hint and had a nap.
JHOOOOON! The quill of your drill press is still hanging out and it is really annoying!
I just do that for filming, otherwise the handle blocks the three-prong logo...
@@AutoExpertJC That's a barely acceptable excuse. Did you run out of FO-22?
One good feature for car makers to add, would be a system that teaches people how to use the turn signals every time the sensors detect that the driver changed lanes and cut someone off without using their turn signals. There are many drivers on the road who cannot figure out how to use their turn signals.
I’ve been noticing that people become dependent and pay less attention to driving with driving assists. Along with that, ignore the warning as well. Like you mention parked cars triggering the collision avoidance, people will eventually grow numb to that signal and disregard it in a situation where it’s needed. The blind spot detection with the light on the mirror can be garbage in certain vehicles too, I notice sometimes the light won’t turn on until after I’m already in a position where they would make contact if they changed lanes. Not to mention me seeing that light at a glance sometimes looks like a turn signal making me think they’re about to turn into me. Touch screens are also a problem for commonly used adjustments like radio and climate control, you can’t make changes without looking at the screen, where as knobs or buttons are always in the same spot no matter what you were previously doing
I use adaptive cruise control in my ID.4 all the time. It can be set as low as 20km/h. Works great in city and freeway. Only situation where it is annoying is when car in front of you turns, then the ACC is slowing down even the car in front is already gone away.
So it doesn't work in stop-go traffic?
As a new owner of an EV vehicle, I have never felt more disconnected to the road than ever before. With all the information in the heads up, screen in front of the driver and the all important infotainment screen you’ll never tell me it’s safer than my old 6 speed manual with push button radio, and the only sound is the seat belt warning.
Um, what does anything you said actually make it less safe?
@@sprockkets Try watching John’s video. Distractions, distractions caused by the car warning about this that and the other. I had one today beeping at me whilst driving because the SOS connectivity wasn’t working. I don’t care about that crap whilst driving but I need to take my eyes off the road to find out where it is and what it wants.
@@mattyjr01 that's not what you posted.
@@sprockketsOk Champ
@@mattyjr01 if you want to argue that having to be more involved with a 6 speed manual makes you safer, sure, go ahead. What does the fact that you have a hud or an ev have to do with it?
Maybe I don't like my adas and I turned it off. I still rather the idiots on the road get blared every time they try to change lanes when they shouldn't.
The first question of any technology is 'How can I turn this off?'
The Peltzman effect was noticed when the Motorcycle crash Hemet law came in, in the UK. For the couple years after the accident rate skyrocketed!
Somebody drove into my Land Rover while it was parked, last year, and my insurance company saw fit to provide me with a Nissan Qashqai as a "like for like" courtesy car.
The Qashqai, from a well-known hire company, came with all the ADAS systems enabled and, when I tried to disable them, I discovered that the related pages of the infotainment system were "greyed out" and inaccessible.
This, I suspect, is a big part of the real reason why these systems exist; so that hire companies and fleet managers can lock these systems in their enabled state as a way to reduce their liability and/or access cheaper insurance.
Highlights of the Qashqai's ADAS included it not allowing me to turn on the vehicles main-beams when I was driving along pitch-black farm tracks because I was somewhere the GPS considered to be an "urban area" and the steering and driveline tightening up to prevent me parking in places the vehicle didn't think I should be parking.
The Qashqai wasn't a bad car (if you owned one you could, presumably, turn all this junk off) but I was vary glad to get my 20 year-old Land Rover back.
Lane assist that can’t be turned off independently of the cruise control is a nightmare when it launches you OUT of the lane at speed.
Couldn't agree more. I bought a 2013 Prado for that very reason, the only time it beeps at me is when I go too quickly without my seatbelt on.
The more people rely on Adas, The more comfortable they will become not paying attention. People are also adaptive in both directions forward or backward. I was unaware until watching this video the term is "peltzman"
7:50 I work for a large US car company, so I get to drive lots of new cars with ADAS. About 4 years ago my nephew was using one of my new lease cars with addaptive cruise and lane keeping assist. He drove from near London to the south of france for a 3 day bank holiday weekend with his brother. They came back late at night and wrote off the car about 2am on an empty 4 lane highway. He fell asleep at about 70+ mph and the car drove itself about 10 miles, until it decided to hand back control to the now deep sleeping driver, with some pop up messages and quiet binging tones !!. He only woke up when his side of the car scraped along the concrete centre barrier... He drove home ok but the car was written off by the panel damage.... The next generation ADAS might have a driver camera to detect sleep, so it can stop the car.....!! I wonder how reliable that will be??
They actually have very good systems to detect drivers nodding off, they will sound an audible alarm and shake the seat as well.
Been a driver controls engineer at an oem supplier for the last 15 years.
We no longer command our cars to do out bidding. We ask them for permission.
It is not ok.
ADAS: The backseat driver for the lone driver! Brings back memories of the 1960s TV show "My Mother the Car".
John - here in Canada, one of the worst offenders with the ADAS advertising has to be Nissan and their Pro-Pilot Assist. It depicts a female teenage driver wondering about how to deal with a bit of road repair work, cones etc. Of course, funtunately for her, her pro-pilot assist technology gets her through it unscathed. She does every thing but give herself a high 5 because ‘she’s made it through this. This advertising recently took a great deal of criticism by consumers for suggesting that you can be a complete idiot, but by driving a Nissan, you can do anything.
Toyota follows up with a close second by advertising a new Corolla with a car full of young people trucking along to the tunes, when a pedestrian steps out onto the roadway, and the car automatically brakes and stops. The driver shows a sigh of relief because their new Toyota was smart enough to pay attention to what they did not.
Both of these two ads have been pulled from the TV airwaves and replaced with somewhat more carefully worded ones.
Both give me the willie’s, in that they suggest that a drive no longer has to pay attention of think while they are driving, due to the technology they have in their vehicle.
My new 2024 Honda CRV Hybrid Touring model has all of this new technology. Thankfully I can turn most of it off. The collision mitigation braking still has a lot of false positives when driving, especially in our winters where we have snow banks alongside the roadways. Any of our narrow streets that slight curves can cause this CMB to activate and suddenly apply the brakes, and hard. So far, drivers behind me have been paying attention and have not been collected by my rear bumper.
The radar mounted behind the front H emblem on the grill will quite working if it gets covered in snow, slush, or a heavy coating of dust. If Honda can provide me with a washer nozzle that rinses the rear mounted backup camera lens, then why can they not provide me with another one for washing this from Radar/Honda Emblem so that they will continue to work - in fact, why can the washing not be automatic. The system should be smart enough to wash itself when it realizes that the sensitivity is decreased due to dust, bugs etc coating it. Hell, my 1979 Datsun 280ZX had manual headlight washers that worked a treat. No good reason why this radar should not be able to keep itself somewhat clean.
What ever happened to learning how to drive ‘properly’?
I have a new Ford Escape as a company car. On a nice day, ADAS and the auto high beams work OKish. Drive on a dusty gravel road and the ADAS has a fit. Drive in fog, at night, and the auto high beams start flashing drivers. At least until it displays “Front Camera Low Visibility Clean Screen.”
Drive in freezing rain and wet snow, that’s when the fun starts
I get in my father's holden, start it up, still in park and the " about to hit something " alarm comes on, I'm in a carport, shut that up, put it in reverse, the alarm starts again, the driveway slopes up a little bit, not that much.
Any alarm that is going " All the time " will be tuned out, making it worse than useless.
It also has a GPS that was out of date when bought, Holden could not do an update even if you offer to pay for it, can't do it yourself, that's a technician's job.
The peltzman effect. Volvo had the same problem in the 80's ( maybe before as well ), they were being sold on how safe they were, but the 'accidents' ended up very high compared to the number of cars. OK, the people IN the volvo weren't getting hurt that bad, but the course of the accident was mostly, guess.
User interface experts know that constant trivial warnings end up being ignored. Better to just have a warning when it is important so you take notice.
Here in the UK my regular ride is a 2015 Kia Cee'd. It's currently in the body shop for repairs after a BMW rear ended us (fortunately no injuries and only cosmetic damage.)
For the duration of the repairs I have been given a 2023 Volkswagen T-Roc to drive until I get mine back and I cannot believe how invasive these driver "aids" have become.
The biggest bugbear of all has been the lane keep assist.
There has been a lot of rain here over the last couple of weeks which has meant there has been some pretty deep standing water in places at the roadside.
Having to fight with lane keep assist to stop it from dragging the car into the deep standing water has been at best annoying, and at worst damn dangerous.
I went through all the sub menus and turned it off thinking that would solve the issue, but every time you re start the car it's back on again... annoying a/f.
( USA) My Mazda has them, but before I bought it I read the manual and found that the annoying systems have persistend off switches. The seat belt warning does not come on until a certain speed is reached.
A problem with the systems is you find yourself preparing for what the vehicle may do rather than reacting to the real situation.
But on large commercial trucks, it's much worse. The systems do not work well, though have gotten a little better in ten years but now there are more of them. The really sad part is than when they go off you are usually in a crowded traffic situation and your attention is on traffic not some BS sayfety system that is trying to distract you. The really sad part is the big companies has safety training programs for and rules against "distracted driving'. But want an off switch on these systems. the reply is, 'you want to remove a safety system? We could never do that'.
These systems are mandated by people who don't care and commercial trucks are designed and bought by people who do not have to use them. We are all beta testers for the mythical self-driving systems they wish for. It is a lead in for government and corperate micro-managment that will increase the difficulty of hiring drivers who have a brain. Or they think the next generation of workers will be compliant myrmidons who will be expected to have no initiative. Surveillance and control seem to be the future pushed on the masses.
Or maybe they are preparing for the people who cannot get off their phones. But the mantra' if it saves one life it is worth it' is a big argument for the nanies. One event a company uses is the automatic braking system activated and prevented one driver, who pulled out in front of a large truck from being killed, though it did still total his car.. Their view is 'see it worked' so all the aggrivation for you is worth it.
Older Americans may remember the '5 mph bumpers' that made cars hideous to look at and the bumper height requirments killed some older cars, perticularly low sports cars.
Yes, that's what I also do.
Start the engine and then get ready for driving, just to give 30 seconds for engine to get lubed up properly.
Lane assist works great on straight highway stretches with clear lane markers. It becomes 100% useless in the snow however. It's also useless in any city where they don't keep the lane markers accurate and freshly painted though. Or at night.
There’s so many false alarms I just end up turning it all off! Also agree with the fact we should be training people to be better drivers, not slapping a band aid on the problem!