The truth about EV battery recycling (it's an eco-nightmare) | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2023
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What happens to all the old shaver batteries 🔋
Good show John There needs to be a requirement that battery manufacturers pay for future recycling. That way they would be motivated to design batteries to be easily recycled. Despite this there has been progress in this area have a look what Dave Borlace at Just Have a Think suggest that Battery recycling just got a whole lot better.czcams.com/video/XFmBX0Uq0wY/video.html
I just believe we need to put a requirement that battery manufacturers plain and pay for future battery recycling. I have noticed that there is not much reporting on how well we are doing in ICE vehicle recycling. Could you do a show comparing both EV and ICE. I suspect we are shit at both in Australia.
Well done John ol son well done as we needed a mini documentary like this.
Get rid of The World Economic Forum and most of the worlds problems go away.
This video is obviously BS, take plastics, I put it in the yellow bin and it goes off to the magic recycle machine where 100% is recycled into coat hangers and Tesla cars :P
John, did they not think of using someone who might have been a better example of use of the product?
Sort of like using a tramp to promote your fragrance range.
“Put your Makita battery in the trash and hope the compactor doesn’t burn to the ground until it’s two or three streets away.” Sorry, I almost fell off my chair!!
The 99% recycle rate on lead acid batteries actually surprised me, had no idea it was that circular compared to lithium ion
The “core charge” is a hell of an incentive.
99.5% for some models :)
Genuine question, you didn't know the automotive industry has been recycling lead acid batteries for literally years (Lead is currently sat at around $3000 per tonne) but can't work out if it might also recycle BEV batteries (lithium sat at $37,000 per tonne currently and climbing)
This is literally so obvious a 7 year old ought to be able to work it out.
And, guess what, i've worked in battery tech for the large OE's for over 15 years and not only do we already have battery recycling plants running right now, we even are mandated by law in most of the world to recycle them (it's illegal to put a BEV battery into landfill in the vast majority of the world, if in Australia that is not law, then you Aussies really need to pull your finger out your asses and make it so!)
@@maxtorque2277 You are talking about lead acid batteries currently about one dollar a kg as scrap NOT lithium batteries.
You do understand that governments had to mandate the recycling. It didn't happen on its own.
John, there are two types of people in this world, those that are left handed and those who wish they were. Fellow lefty.
Left handed, but not left behind!
Left handed people die quicker in a sword fight.
In the truest sense of the word *Sinister!*
lol conservatives on this planet tortured left handed children cuz evil till like yesterday ..., so no,.
Sadly I'm the minority that uses both hands (ambidextrous)
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
As a kid we learned about the three Rs: reduce, reuse, recycle. The reason recycle went last was because it was the least shit (third best?) option for something you needed to dispose of, before it goes into landfill.
We're not doing the third R very well for lithium-ion, but it was good to see 99.9% for lead-acid recycling, some 164 years after Frenchy Gaston Planté slapped the first one together.
We aren't even doing the first 2 R's, as a society, really.
On account our economic model REQUIRES constant growth to stop it from imploding in on itself means we will always need to produce more. Things will never be built to last either, because things you only buy once doesn't make for good profit.
@@nerdy_dav I do. Hoping to inspire others to do the same
Are you currently driving a car with an engine? Well you're gonna blow a rod at this one, but i've got news for you, the recycling rate for petrol is a big fat ZERO percent (yup. 0 %) you put the petrol in your car, it burns it, it's gone. Nothing can be recycled.
But apparently, despite Austrailia alone burning billions of tonnes of fuel each and every year, precisely none of which can ever be reused, "lithium" (which can in fact be infinitely recycled at high percentages) is a problem?
Unfortunately, what this sorry sorry tells us is that most people are rather stupid and incredibly easy to fool! BTW would you like to buy a bridge........ 🙂
I hate the thought of Frenchies slapping anything, especially together
I am right-handed and know nothing whatsoever about the perils and vicissitudes of being left-handed. Therefore, I shall become an ally, an activist, a social warrior for all south-paws. I shall boycott hardware and domestic appliance stores, I shall block roads, I shall campaign against dexter privilege. I shall be ceaseless in being a bloody nuisance until all left-handers have their rights (or lefts).
I'm one of those privileged Australians that is ambidextrous which I will say is bloody handy when my right hand is black with sump oil and the old girl is indulging in a menopausal fest
blame the theists., they're who deemed left handed ppl evil in the 1st place , js
What are aboriginal Islanders?
ac+ (ambi, cross dom and the + is for everyone else, we must not fall into the trap of exclusion again) Please add more letters as is necessary.
Funny
There's a similar story with EOL solar panels. Whilst they can recycled, this is a very energy intensive process which makes it economically unattractive. Therefore they often end up in landfill too. As they're comprised of lovely substances like cadmium, antimony and selenium just to name a few, they are very much a toxic time bomb waiting to explode into the water table. All very green.
Don't worry, in the next 20 years we will have cheap, plentiful energy from fusion to recycle anything. Then the west can keep selling clean, green solar panels to countries that can't afford a fusion power plant.
Yep I would rather have a nuclear waste dump in my back yard than these battery's in land fill halfway across the state leaching into the water table
@@doogssmee9742except solar panels are currently 90% recyclable and dont leach chemicals. Stop listening to Barnaby Joyce.
@@doogssmee9742and nukes? Yeah, think Chernobyl and Fuckushima.
1 mistake and a 200 mile area is toast for 300yrs. Again, stop listening to the drunkard secretary shagger Barnaby Joyce.
@@paulnotdownunder3172 chuck one in your water supply then
I am so glad you uploaded this story. Research has shown that six out of seven dwarfs aren’t happy, but I am now.
High ho?
Thank You John for being such a fantastic worldly neighbor. Though our interaction is a bit one sided, you sir represent our voice and have helped set many at ease, knowing we are not alone.
Thanks for all of these videos John.
9:20 "Energy is not measured in MW, ... it is measured in MW-Hours" - thank you for pointing this out!
Even 2 solar panel installers I spoke to recently clearly didn't get this.
That's because for what they're doing, the measure of energy they employ Is $$Hrs. Nothing else really matters - apparently.
I got in to a discussion with an EV pundit who claimed the batteries are "99% recycled". I said "I think you mean recyclable not recycled, the terms aren't interchangable".🤦♂️
I rang the only place in Aus (in Melbourne) that recycles EV batteries and said that I was in QLD, and that I had a dead Nissan Leaf battery to get rid of.
I was told I would have to take it to one of their transport partners to have it safely packaged, and then sent to them as dangerous goods. The lady then said once it gets here "we'll weigh it and see how hard it looks to dismantle, then quote you the cost for recycling it for you". This was going to be on top of the dangerous goods transportation cost.😳
Any dead EV batteries in NZ have to go to the same place in Melbourne as no-one in NZ recycles EV batteries. I had heard, but can't confirm, a figure of $5K to send a dead/damaged EV battery (in NZ) over to Aus.
Lol, I just hope they charge for every single battery to be recycled, that will teach people to listen and do their own research.
A recycling mandate would help, the main problem with EV battery recycling isn’t technical; it’s economics. Mainly there isn’t a large enough stream of waste yet, that would allow recycling at a scale where it pays for itself. That will change when EVs start hitting the scrap yards in large numbers.
Many things are technically possible, but it seems that most of society expects someone else to make sure those things are done.
I'm a proud lefty too, technician/tradesman and have suffered the right handed world since 1956, I remember struggling with fountain pens in primary, smudging everything I wrote, and those bloody right handed chairs with a table secured to the right side of the chair that just don't work for us. I've been a member of choice for over 30 years, sent a few emails asking for them to test products with left handedness in mind, nothing yet. Chain saws, whipper snippers and so many tools would be considered dangerous if they were designed lefty for the right handed to use. Anyhow, on the bright side, we are more versatile because of this and have our own day of the year. all good. great work mate.
Why are people right handed?
August 13 was International Left Handers Day!
@@4GregF Who is it that decides what "day" it is ?
@@davidnobular9220 I don't who decided what "day" it is, but they all seem to agree it's August 13. Search for International Lefthanders day, and you'll find many links supporting the 13th of August.
They should focus on recycling all that hot air emitted from Parliament House, Canberra!
What scares me just as much is the Andrews Electric utopia in Victoria...... No more gas in new development + green energy pickup being well underwhelming + EV take-up + near no recycling options = where the hell is the power and resources to recycle *cough* i mean "carbon neutrality" coming from? Also what is required to recycle, is it like some industries where obscene amounts of other resources (see water) are required or where resulting waste is still an issue?
Certainly an issue that needs to be sorted out by govt &/or industry ASAP.
Once the scale of battery resources becomes large enough industry will take it on. In the US, they recognise that it's far cheaper to recover minerals than to mine it.
The sad thing about consumers is that few people give a stuff.
Phones, laptops, torches, Bluetti batteries, it's not just a car problem.
Thanks John, here I was concerned with the power grid collapsing under the weight of these EV's plugging at the same time. Now I have to worry about the local rubbish (sorry Recyling centre) going up in flames with the associated toxic plume. Might be time to move to Antarctica.
I wouldn’t worry because most our rubbish and recycling is shipped over to poor 3rd world countries. Why make it our own problem when we can pass it on to others, she’ll be right mate.
You know that a large fleet of EVS actually STABILISES the grid yeah? BEVS are mostly charged at night, which is when few other users are er, using electricity. This "load leveling" actually allows the grid to be more efficient and robust. And when technoiogies such as V2G become available (and cars are already on sale that support this tech) the EV fleet can also be used as a "free" buffer to absorb a higher proportion of renewable energy and store it for later use
But i guess you're probably not an expert in electrical generation and distribution but that's ok, you've already made up your mind that EV = BAD so happy days, keep on shouting at clouds, try not to die from a heart attack in your frenzy of hate, but sorry clever engineers like me in the electrical industry are just going to go ahead and sort it all out anyway no matter...... 🙂
@@maxtorque2277 really? Where are evs used to load level the grid?
@@rjbiker66 Clearly today, there are not enough EVs sold to be used in such a way.
However, EV batteries are already beening used to level the grid in Austrailia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve
So we know that EV batteries CAN be used to level the grid and the tech to do so whilst those batteries are still in private ownership is also proven (V2G) and we also know that battery storage can in fact not just level the grid but also actually make money through dynamic energy trading.
So the question ought to be "why wouldn't we use EV batteries to level our grids"?
It's also worth nothing that private individuals can use EV battery packs from scrapped EVs to help level the grid by buffering their domestic supply. Right now i'm typing this reply on a PC that is powered by yesterdays sunshine, stored overnight in my DIY "Powerwall" which is the battery pack from a 2014 nissan leaf!
Yes, it's early days as it were, but the possibilites are there and today many companies, investors and even OEMs are already starting to include this potential in their future plans. OE's like Ford and KIA already make a selling point of V2L and V2G is comming!
@@maxtorque2277You are correct. This is the confirmation bias channel. Good for a laugh.
I was in the electrical industry for 40 years and I researched EV charging, recycling and the mining linked to the EV industry and I would not own or charge a EV unit in my garage due to fire concerns.
I am,right handed, I was born this way, phew !!!
My take on electrification is, we have jumped jaw first for this technology. Mainly on the fact it does not have an exhaust pipe.
As stated in this video, the complete lifecycle is missed (circularity).
Before I croak it and put in my right-handed box (don’t want to write coffin), I would like to have made a realistic positive impact to Greenation, with all the bull going around, it’s hard to leave a green-legacy. What a bummer.
Fiskars makes very good left-handed scissors. Greetings from Finland.
You do make bloody good scissors mate for sure 👍
@@stephenhaywood5672 Thank you. I do sharpen these scissors professionally. 😁
An article on CZcams just recently said 8 EV's catch fire a day in China.....they must hit the recycle button a bit hard??
China has a large number of EV cars I wonder how that compares to ICE cars
@@RobertB56 Yes they have made and registered a large number of ev's and parked them up in paddocks... there is a doco floating around somewhere about it .... they done the same with bikes years ago also ... just pumped them out onto the pile of bikes never to be used
Great video mate, left-handed electrical engineer here and I'm glad you pointed out that MW is not a measure of energy 👍
I’ve listened to many of your videos, and do you know why I trust you John ? Because I have never been able to read your personal opinions. I disagree with some of your comments, but disagreeing with someone isn’t a reason not to trust them. I trust you because you are forthcoming with your sources, correct your errors with the same enthusiasm as all your other material, aren’t drawn in to (or by) “ad hominem” attacks, but most importantly I have no clue who you would vote for, and yet you still refer to politicians in your videos. That is old school journalism training. You are a funnel for accurate information, which you present devoid of prejudice, allowing the viewer to come to their own conclusion(s). Your “take it or leave it” attitude is used by bullies and dictators, who then tear to shreds anyone who chooses to “leave it”. But you genuinely mean “take it or leave it”. Now I value your videos as a reliable information source, and that quality is as much as I could ask of any journalist, regardless of how you vote.
Sounds like Li-Cycle needs to open a facility in Australia. I'll mention that to them if I get a chance to tour their local facility here in Ontario. Their Rochester NY facility and the one in Germany can each recycle upwards of 30,000 tonnes per year so a single facility in 'Straya should be able to handle the projected demand. I know they plan on opening facilities in "Asia" soon so hopefully that includes somewhere in Australia.
Hi facilitaties in asia mean in a hole in the ground near a river where kids wash….. anyhow
I just went on the Li-Cycle website. The figures you quote aren't current capability. Their article outlines all their "planned" recycling capacities, but they are not there yet. The article on their website has a large disclaimer at the bottom explaining "forward thinking statements" (which their article is full of). They state once they have opened the two more facilities they have planned in France and Norway they will have a worldwide capacity of 100,000 tonnes, from the 7 facilities combined. Hopefully they'll have some helpers, from this year's estimated BEV production alone there will be 7 million tonnes of battery waste to deal with going forward.
I think recycling EV batteries pointless, especially if I'm not getting a full refund of its purchase price.
Currently a single battery pack costs between $15k and $20k.
It's a waste of money to recycle it if I don't see a refund of $15k.
These recycling places I guarantee will not pay out, I bet they will have the government to mandate recycling, which means 100% profit for them, while the consumer that actually paid for the battery gets nothing. I call that robbery.
@@brandonsheffield9873 do you get a refund for all the cans, paper and glass bottles you recycle or do you only do things that are good for society if they personally benefit you directly?
There will be no EV batteries to recycle as the sales of EV's is going through the floor , just like the second hand values are doing too, so they will go the way of the dinosaurs in my opinion!!
Wow! Seriously, you are amazing with everything you post. Soooo real compared to BS everywhere else. Love your work.
There is no "post hydrocarbon" John, unobtainium is just what it means.
If you mean there's no sustainable solution to the problem of 8 billion humans on earth you might be right.
Unobtainium will solve all of our problems, when properly applied in the handwavium process.
Modern green ideology was invented to justify control and depopulation, by narcissists who think of themselves as so godly that they are worthy of making such a decision.
Old school hippies who just want to reduce pollution, I don't have a problem with. But the narcissists have figured out how to *use* those people.
The big supermarkets green washed recycling soft plastic, turns out we have mountains of the stuff all round the country sitting in stockpiles going absolutely no where. It was all smoke and mirrors. Never, ever believe a big company BS’ing you on recycling it isn’t true. Same as the triangle and numbers 1-5 on hard plastics. According to a PHD studying this recycling around the world who was interviewed extensively on Sydney ABC, only #1&2 can be economically recycled in Australia the rest sits in stockpiles rotting away (albeit very, very slowly) because there’s no way they can be recycled and make money. It’s all “trust me, the Government will make sure it happens”, yeah, and mine is thisssss long.
That was interesting. Yesterday i watched a vid during which the guy from "electric classic cars" was telling his mate from (YT) "Petrol Ped" that the EV battery recycling industry here in the UK was having problems getting enough to keep going as the battery packs were not being replaced fast enough. I expect they are talking about nice big ev power pack systems rather than a drill or laptop battery pack which is probably economically too labour intensive?. There is a definite need to come up with a viable small lithium pack collection for recycling as Waste lorries have combustion problems over here as well. We also have a lot less land to fill.
I watched the same vid as I mostly enjoy Ped’s work. All I know is that Tesla states batteries are only around 60% recyclable. Tesla quotes USD $ 6000 charge to take your old battery to responsibly dispose of it when you buy a replacement. Bugger that!
@@georgebeare8883 How do you "know" that Tesla batteries are only "60% recyclable" show source please!
@@georgebeare8883
Where are refurbished batteries coming from that thousands of people are using in their older Teslas? 🤔
@@maxtorque2277 yeah, sure you are. "Studies" and "pilots." Love them. I hear so much about them from EVangelists all the time. Get back to me when all of this actually gets up and running on a volume commercial scale and reality mate. America already has a very real and very large pile of EOL EV batteries lying around because they are not economically viable to recycle. All your theories and studies are not commercial reality, and that is where it all falls over. Glass and plastics are recyclable, have been for decades, but we don't do it anywhere near the volume that we discard. Because it is cheaper to just chuck it and make new plastic and glass, that's why. Just because you can theoretically do something, doesn't mean it is financially sound and viable. Who suggested Tesla batteries are different anyway? Almost all EV batteries come out of China and battery tech is universal, nobody has an exclusive compositional breakthrough so far.
hi john. well picked up on the obvious MW vs MWh. as a cleantech industry insider i think you are bang on here. it does get recycled by people like me at some scale for our own DIY EV projects etc but its a drop in the ocean and one of the many dark secrets of the RE industry supply chain. for our off grid projects we use selectronic inverter chargers with powerplus lithium batteries (cobalt free) both great aussie products, neither have recycling programs.
Electric Viking just reported that none of the EVs on that ship caught fire. Get a chance check this out for us.
"Going out early in a blaze of glory" masterpiece of poetry right there. A Chuck Norris level pun.
John, regarding supply. Other than the issue of where's the lithium going to come from, are other materials such as copper going to be an issue moving forward? I would imagine the demand for copper would've increased exponentially over the past 20 years. Also, there's already a couple of Teslas we won't be getting here, as they won't be built in RHD. Will other manufactures follow? As the demand for EVs increases worldwide, I would imagine EV manufacturers would prioritise LHD cars as the market is so much bigger.
John, you didn't mention the proverbial Elephant-in-the-room. When all these giant car batteries are unceremoniously dumped at your local landfill, are they rendered inert so they cannot attain thermal runaway?...I would think not, all accumulating for an eventual Mt. Vesuvius type display.
Doing an ad for a shaver while clearly unshaven - classic Cadogan.
Thank you for spreading awareness of this issue
Any word when a petrol powered Manscaped shaver will be available?
I hear they're testing a small V8 prototype this year.....
Love to see you debate the ultimate Ev CoolAid sipping and fellow Antipodean The Electric Viking with a Welsh name. 😂 That would be a great scrap.
I wish John would take on that cerebral maladroit! I am spending far too much time comment- bombing that drongo’s daily drivel.
Maybe Steven Mark Ryan is up for a debate?
Some posted about the longevity of Telsa batteries saying a 8yr Telsa S had travelled 1,600,000 km and was still on the road. They pointed to Drive article....
"However, it’s understood the vehicle has been through three battery packs and eight electric motors since 2014"
:)
oooh. source please.
The electric car companies are telling us that their batteries contain recyclable materials, but what they’re not telling us is whether those exotic minerals are reclaimable.
We really do need to address the issues that affect our future. Don't want an electric car. Have even decided against an electric bicycle.
Totally agree John, this is a looming issue that will need to be solved. However, recycling lithium batteries is simply a technical and commercial challenge, that can be overcome. Unlike recycling petrol, which is impossible
Are you "one of the greenwashed, insufferable, self righteous, muppets with cash" that John talks about?
czcams.com/video/DZzwQZI1AJ4/video.html
I appreciate your presentation very much!
It took 20 years to put a starter motor on a ICE ...Fords model T. Innovation at this rate takes time. REDWOOD industries is on this issue.
We all know you, John mechanic.. appreciate vehicles that timely break as soon as the warranty runs out.
Electric is the future.
Sell your gascars while you can.
Moron to engineer,
maybe you could explain the calculation. Every time I get an electricity bill that says your omissions are 10 tons of carbon how in the hell do they work that out and what in the hell does that really mean because I’ve never figured it out……!!!
They know how the electricity you used was made (coal, gas, Harry Potter wizard spells, whatever). Therefore the carbon dioxide emitted to create electricity using those methods that can be calculated. Hope that helps answer your question.
Definitely not an EV fan here but I would like to point out an Aussie company Neometals Technology who are leaps and bounds ahead within the battery recycling world.
Plant in Australia or just Germany?
@@ianmcleod8898 unfortunately nothing in Australia
Redwood Materials nr 1 imo 4 billion dollar value from former co founder at Tesla . the company received enough end-of-life batteries annually to provide critical materials for new batteries for about 60,000 new electric vehicles. Redwood estimated that it was recovering more than 95% of the metals (including nickel, cobalt, lithium, and copper) from end-of-life batteries.[4]
@@tempura112And how much are they subsidized by the taxpayer ⁉️
@@tempura112 How much did it cost to recover what value of product? Bet they made effall.
Car companies and Governments are doing their best to ignore this problem and keep it quite !
I sense a disturbance in the force....as if millions of Greenies and Virtue Signallers have been triggered......
I've always scoffed at the repurposing of lithium cells that have been through their nominal life cycle count. Anyone with any actual experience tinkering with this will be well aware of the difficulty matching and keeping aged cells balanced.
Examination of those elcheapo 12V lifepo4 batteries that use aged cells shows just this issue. Come back and check them in a couple of years and the cell capacities are all over the place and the BMS is having a really hard time keeping it all in check. Ever wondered why they often have poor charging rates? That's part of how they hide the reality of it.
At least aged lifepo4 cells don't tend to spontaneously burst into flames. Reusing NMCs is a recipe for disaster. It's not just me saying it either. The quality cell manufacturers advise against it.
Well said John, your spot on again. Now lets get onto all these horrible huge expensive $1million Windmills, being built all over our wonderful Aussie landscape, plus our oceans, and the disposal of there massive long blades that can't be recycled at present 😧
Yeah, all bullshit, but yeah, I enjoy seeing Sydney Harbour size fuckorff holes all over our prime rural land.
Another Barnaby Joyce sukka.
Perhaps we should dump our waste all over our beautiful landscape instead of exporting it to poor 3rd world countries?
Yeah, another load of bolox, here in Ireland the countryside is scattered with them, they almost never produce energy because the wind here is too strong for the massive unrecyclable blades. We're all getting fucked up the ass by the private banking elites.
Why do you need landmills ?
I had thought that the skin cancer rate is already higher than anywhere else which must have a mankind made cause.
We have windmills on a tiny small coast compared to australia and you do really complain ?
You will not be able to buy any new ICE car cause those will be gone in 2035 with no new one built cause with lower sales figures of ice you can no longer build these cars cause costs are exploding if you build only 50% of current volumes.
The Mercedes CEO has announced this week to add 4 more billions to prepare for the stop of ice production and increase the speed of EV production.
Why if he could make so big profits ?
Even china is further than australia, the adoption rate is higher and of cause their market is bigger than the tiny australian car market.
But guess what: you will get all the spare parts for ages from those manufacturers, but they will increase the prices like hell and you will pay these or go forward
And australia is so far away from the first world that you do not even know anything about recycling of lithium batteries, which is done here with 94% recycling success which means pure metal which can be used like the genuine from the ore, and of those windmill blades cause the owners here have to pay for it. You get not permission to build one if you do not take care for the recycling afterwards which requires a deposit.
If you want to buy a coke here you pay a deposit for the plastic and aluminium bottle for over 25 years and you get it back if you bring the empty bottle back.
We have cleaner streets than what I had seen in Melbourne, the whole country was more or less dirty, inside and outside the city. Everyone throws rubbish aways. Here you get find 100€ for throwing a cigarette out of the car window. And guess what: people learn by paying fines.
Here in Texas, our beautiful land is blighted by thousands of giant wind farms. Occasionally one will catch fire and provide some entertainment.
Thanks John 👍 you are correct mate,keep up the great work,Harry
Your views on "THE VOICE" //////////////// BRAVO JC - YOU ARE NOT ALONE!
Everything seems to be a nightmare these days, so there’s no point worrying about it. I certainly don’t.
It’s the “soft-ification” of the population. It’s feelings over facts. It will eventually invade the things you care about.
No issue here, I don't think there is any justification for EV recycling at this point as there are insufficient dead batteries. Those that do occur can be stockpiled until the market emerges.
Anyway the EV battery issue will be far eclipsed by recycling of grid and household batteries, EV batteries will just feed into that market as the cell format is largely identical.
As it stands I don't plan to trade my EV battery for at least ten years, by then I trust, as with lead batteries at present, there will be a dynamic recycling facility.
Oddly enough, some us give a damn about other people, including coming generations.
It is a nightmare by intentional design. If we don't oppose will be forced to unnecessarily eat tons of shit. Wake up
@@jimgraham6722keep the rosé coloured gla😂sses
You made an excellent point. I too would rather live next to a nuclear waste storage site than a land-fill EV battery site.
Better move to Maralinga then.
I"m not totally sure. Radiation might work on my allergies, seems unlikely it would end up healing me.
EV battery waste is more of a tiocking timebombs, unless post-exothermic combustion.
According to the Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI), all of the nuclear waste that the US nuclear industry has created, since the 1950's, would fit into an area of around 90m x 50m x 10m. That's a much smaller neighbour (and less volatile) than the EV battery land-fill site.
@@Cloxxki Radiation gets stopped by a few meters of dirt and concrete.
You know the difference between an atomic test and a nuclear waste site, right?
On bin day in northern Victoria the truck empties the rubbish bin, drives forward a metre and empties the "recycle bin". I don't bother sorting anything anymore. It's all going to the same hole in the ground anyway. The upside is we have more rubbish capacity in our bins.
Haha, I finally know what "MALS" means.
had a pub argument on EV's last night with a UNI faculty type. his argument...if EV fires were a thing right wing press would be all over it ......something something something conspiracy theory
This is very common IME. If the Daily Mail ran an article on how grass is green, a significant percentage of the population would immediately label chlorophyll an alt-right conspiracy theory.
That sounds as bad as the university lecturer who was telling me that Fruit bats don't actually eat fruit. They only take pollen and nectar from native trees. I suggested to him that he should talk to some fruit farmers.
I work with a group of Uni-faculty type pHd’s everyday. Physicists mainly. I can say with conviction, that they are the smartest dumb people that I’ve ever met.
yes more heads planted firmly you know where. I'm convinced UNI breeds those type of thinkers.
@@ianmcleod8898 Oh, no! Not so. They're all around you. Look more carefully and you'll see.
How do you recycle petrol or diesel exhaust?
That's what plant's need to live 🤔 and then they expell Oxygen , wakey wakey Lefty 🐑🙈
@@blaylum CO2 is broken down by ozone?
Last time I checked the CSIRO report, it costs 2-3x as much as the materials are worth to do the recycling.
This is an inconvenient truth to EVangelists who'll bleat on about Redwood Materials.
NB. 80% of the 10% of the LIBs that are recycled are from small consumer devices and not large EVs.
"So there's also that".
I am truely horrified to hear the vast majority of these things gets buried.
here is a way to recycle those pesky batteries. get them to run away in a power plant to heat the water for turbines. (green energy) :)
Doesn't fusion need a lot of heat to get kick started? 🤣🤣
Great video John , theres so much utter Greenie BS out in the community with the electric vehicles its not funny , and as always , its all about the mighty dollar , no one in the EV selling market will want to step up and take responsibility for the waste that is going to be caused by EV`s .
However , in their marketing spiel , they will/are getting on the bandwagon telling us how efficient and clean and green their EV`s are , oh and lets not forget , buying an EV will stop climate change 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂.
As a fellow left hander great episode, as a sparkie I tell people about batteries and they don't believe me , well done top job keep it up
Sparkies have a higher rate of left-handedness than other trades - anecdotal only.
Last place I worked four of us were left handed out of seven sparkies.
What do you know about Graphine batteries.?
They are allegedly much quicker to charge and hold their charge much longer.
Are they a feasible alternative to lithium batteries in motor vehicles.?
Why do I enjoy listening to this so much! I’m even happier I didn’t buy into the EV myth!
Lol, same here, I hope you didn't fall for the other ones too, especially the experimental mRNA gene therapy injections one
Has anyone thought about what might happen when these lithium landfill sites catch fire, as they no doubt will do one of these days?
You should ask yourself why they are not happening every day, since lithium batteries aren't something new.
Ask yourself what has happened with tons of phone batteries in the last few decades. Where are the lithium battery landfills? Shouldn't they be so big by now that we could see them on google maps? 🤔
EVs are still not the majority of lithium battery demand, not even close.
So where are all the dead lithium batteries?
@@Tschacki_Quacki Going up in flames in garbage trucks ?
When i inquired about battery recycling, a clerk at my local home improvement store here in the states sheepishly directed me to a breakfast-cereal-sized box hung on the wall near the store entrance into which presumably all expired cordless power tools' batteries (being rep;aced by new purchases) could be deposited by the customer--without record--as the customer entered the store.
Not much glamour in *this transaction.
Could you imagine it any other way?
Recycling batteries is actually a relatively easy process. Companies wanting to recycle them is a different story. But all that needs to be done is dump the WHOLE battery in an acid bath, and once it's decomposed it gets stirred up and all the different elements settle in layers because they are all different densities. Then the layers get scooped off and put into storage containers as the raw materials, ready to be reused again. This is how Redwood Materials does it, however it may not be economically viable to ship the batteries overseas for this (Aus to USA). Rather these battery recycling facilities need to be set up on every continent.
There is a way to do it. So lets do it! 👍
There is a problem in the UK regarding EV batteries recycling. The company taking batteries for recycling is only running at half of its capacity due to EV batteries lasting longer than the manufacturers first expect. Luckily for them there is still plenty old diesel vehicles to dismantle.
@@TheRealCheckmatecompared to ICE vehicles it’s minuscule. But hey people like yourself and John do t understand science.
@@TheRealCheckmate By law, all EV's have to be 50% recyclable in Europe, the EV battery recycling industry is expected to exceed $40bn by 2040 by some suggestions.
@@crumbschief5628 I think one of the main points here is that there's a difference something being recyclABLE, and whether it's actually being recyclED. Australia is absolutely shocking with the responsible disposal of waste. For years we were shipping our hard plastic to Asia to be "recycled" (where AFAIK it was mostly burned for energy). Then several years ago, this practice stopped - presumably because the countries accepting it had enough of their own to deal with. As far as I know there is still minimal onshore recycling of plastic waste. People here are still encouraged to put hard plastic waste into recycling bins, and even think that they're doing the right thing, and possibly feel good and vituous about it, even though most of this it now probably just going to landfill. Then there was the debacle of the company that set themselves up to collect soft plastic waste at supermarkets etc.,, only a small proportion of which went to recycling. The majority seemed to end up in warehouses awaiting recycling, and was still there when the company went bankrupt a couple of years ago. Also suspect a fair proportion of it may have ended up in landfill.
Comparisons with countries like Sweden is embarrassing, and makes me ashamed to be Australian. Anyone who thinks that Australia is actually disposing of waste responsibly now, or is likely to in the near future is just dreaming....
John is a used car mechanic and how can we expect he could understand EVs. Just because both ICE cars and EVs has a body and four wheels, he thinks he knows everything about EVs. He is passing along wrong informations and the trolls who follow him agrees with them. Redwood materials, a battery recycling company in CA has said that almost 95% of the metals from EVs can be recycled. However, they don’t have enough of EV batteries to recycle as of now and it’s not profitable in a such a low scale. Once we have volume in may be 5 years, it will be a profitable business. According to them, it will be far cheaper to extract metals from used EV batteries than to mine them. As someone said in this post, it is minuscule compared to fossil fuels. In US, everyday an oil spill is happening and spills smaller are not even reported. Huge refined fuel leaks are happening in pipelines in US. One pipeline from Texas to east coast is spilling gasoline, instead of fixing that, they bought the surrounding land so that it will be put in public and it is their internal problem. Do you know in fracking of oil, they don’t need to publish all the chemicals they need to put to extract oil. Many places in Pennsylvania, the faucets leak natural gas and other fuels. It burns when you put a match in there. There are millions of old oil wells that are emitting methane because oil companies don’t close them when there is not enough oil coming out. Do you know how much environmental damage caused by the extraction of oil from oil sands in Canada to get one of worst crude oil. John, read these things and provide an unbiased information.
@@Dionysus_AthenaSays someone blinded by their leftist ideology ⁉️🙈🐑😷💉
Already looking forward to your commentary piece, on the first (inevitable) runaway, underground, landfill inferno! Contrary to some expectations, recycling costs money (investment, construction and operation). Even if enacted, guess who pays? EV buyers? Nope, that would make such vehicles even more economically unviable. That means society generally, picking up the tab to indulge this fantasy.
The entire EV industry is highly subsidized and wouldn't exist without massive government subsidies ⁉️😡
May you show us a battery landfill please? Where on google maps do I have to look?
Do you think that initial lithium extraction is free and doesn't cost any money or ressources?
Er, you know that a large amount of the materials in your current car get recycled at end of life right? Who currently pays for that? Go on, apply litterally a couple of brain cells (please rememeber to try to keep breathing whilst you are thinking... ;-) and the answer to that question is really fairly obvious!
@@rickschritt1616 Have a guess what the worlds no1 recipent of subsidies and tax payer dollars is? Go on, have a guess (ok, google it) I guess you're not bothered though because you don't hate cars with engines though do you.........
Not disputing that, just couldn't be bothered to type out the bleeding obvious - if the current (ICE) system works and is fully funded, it stands to reason that a fully funded EV one will be unaffordable (for the vast majority). Still, thanks for your carefully considered and cogent response.
Now there's a thing.
The retired and active military members in Hawaii are chattering about how the fire started due to failure of a residential *e-vehicle charging station*.
The governor and other powers that be do not want that info released.
Australia's pioneering lithium battery recycler, Envirostream, dismantles each battery to separate its basic materials - plastic, copper, steel, and aluminium - so that they can be reused by manufacturers.
However, with claims from the CSIRO that Australia’s lithium battery recycling industry could be worth more than $3 billion, there’s a growing focus on developing national recycling programs with higher productivity and a smaller environmental footprint.
Dunno what you're talking about. We'll just ship it offshore and it's someone else's problem. I'm left handed by the way.
Thanks again !
Well there goes my 'eco friendly' dream. Thinking / trusting that Lithium batteries would be recycled I was happy to use battery powered tools , mower , brushcutter , - CORDLESS wow ! - . Back to genuine hand tools : swing drill , push mower , sickle cutter , a goat... as long I can drive my vintage Land Rover once a week to go shopping (it is all the km. I make in the car). Or should I live closer to town and get myself a horse + cart like that old German bloke I once met in the Spanish Pyrenees in the 1980's : He had traveled all the way from Germany to Spain looking at the horse's arse . The horse did not care where the grass was growing and where she dumped. . . 'what a life' we said . . . little did we know how good that life really was !
Since you drive your Land Rover only once a week, I highly recommend that you go shopping in a store that is at least 20 minutes of driving time away. This way you would have driven for 40+ minutes by the time you're back home. Driving any less than that is not good for the LR's battery, engine, and many other car parts.
What if I told you....
Thanks for your concern, my nearest shop is about 65 km from where I live , the next one to choose from is at about 150 km. Welcome to rural Australia !
@@Jacob-thePhotographer Ah, yes! Don't you just love the assumptions?
@@Tschacki_Quacki .....that The Cloud was just somebody else's computer ?
Excellent work.
The technology actually exists to break down batteries quite efficiently. Of course, currently, it is still cheaper to mine for new raw materials than to recycle in many parts of the world. This is something we need to address on the legislative level i.e. banning the disposal of batteries and associated material via landfills. They also need to be designed to be easily recyclable.
Here in my part of Florida I had to ask the local recycling people about Tetra-Pak aseptic containers and the knockoffs, those layered plastic and foil things that have displaced a lot of steel cans because they’re lighter and pack snugly into boxes. The Tetra-Pak people make a big deal about how much effort they’ve put in to making them recyclable, creating and improving and supposedly perfecting equipment for processing used ones into their components.
Nobody in my part of Florida has that equipment. Maybe Tetra-Pak containers can be recycled in parts of Europe. They can’t be recycled here. Putting them in the recycling bin just makes things harder for the poor sods doing the (possibly futile) work.
Even with that equipment, used plastic is still a pain, and careful incineration seems the best fate for it, carbon dioxide be damned.
That’s easy stuff compared with used EV batteries.
Talking about plastic stupidity ..... I came across some straws at a fast food place the other day .... yep they were paper and enclosed in a plastic bag ..... go figure
. . . . and the discarded AdBlu 10 litre containers? ? ? Burning them would presumably put a lot more CO and CO2 into the air than they ever reduced when the contents were being used in an engine.
Not car related, but have you heard of Vanadium Redox Flow Batteries and if so, what are your thoughts on them? They were invented in Australia.
🌟If that's the picture in Auz then I shudder to think of the "recycling" disaster in the U.K.
Politicians just spew click-bait.
God help us all.
The reason lead acid batteries are recycled in large numbers is because they are big and heavy and you need a new one only once every five or ten years. So it's easy to make a bit of effort. In my experience, if you buy a new one from a servo or from the NRMA, they will take it off your hands for free (presumably because they get some money from a recycler).
Contrast this to lithium power tool batteries and AA and AAA batteries. Nobody want to take them off you. Councils have a "recycling" station that is usually miles away and not open at convenient hours. Coles and Woollies and Buninngs may have a box for the old ones, but you've got to search for it. All too hard, so we just throw them in the red bin.
I work in the photography industry and I know of no one that could give 2 wet farts about recycling a camera battery. No store, photographic firm, or independent photographer; legit nobody cares.
That's a shame as the film processing industry; at a small scale, diy sort of level, used to pride itself on how the chemicals remaining became inert/neutral when mixed after processing. Or was that all greenwashing also?
@@Simmo_AU How about when you add in all of the other small devices that use batteries?
How many thousand power tool batteries will be chucked away every year for a start without even considering other hand held devices?
You haven't been paying attention, mate, there are battery recycling bins in just about every supermarket, every tool store, and every battery shop. All you have to do is make the effort to open your eyes, which should be a pretty handy sort of skill for a photographer to acquire, I'd have thought?
@@Simmo_AU About a dozen garbage trucks catch fire it this country every week due to e-waste containing batteries being chucked out. About the same number of fires on tips and in metal recycling facilities. All because people think they're somebody else's problem.
@@SafeTrucking Yes but where do they all end up ? .... Same as the recycle bin I put out every second week ?
Hang on John. This little piece will surely take a small section of the smug smile from an EV owner and it’s quite possible he will not be able to look into a mirror again at himself until he reads another positive story about battery recycling . You have to live with that.
Mate, I'll look into it in about 10 or 15 years when my battery is projected to be just about had it.
I'm pretty sure things will be different by then.
hahaha@@guringai unless you ev burns your house down, god forbid.
@@oldbloke100 about 1 chance per million or 3. I'll win the lottery first
@@guringaiAs early as that? I calculate the Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries in my MG4 will last 160 years before the capacity drops below 80% of original capacity.
I'd wager air pollution from ICE vehicle's is just as bad as the inability to at this stage to recycle batteries,look at the amount of products from laptops,drills, lawnmowers and heaps of others that run on batteries no one talks about not being able to recycle them and most if not all of people knocking EV cars would own most of those items without an issue they seem to have a problem with EV cars
Go Electric, they said. It's sustainable, they said.
Another great video John.
It appears that the "Fremantle Highway" EV ship fire has little to do with EV's according to chief of salvage company Royal Boskalis, Peter Berdowski. Apparently all the EV's on the ship are undamaged!
Aug 14, 2023 - 02:39 pm
*_It wasn’t an EV that caused the ‘Fremantle Highway’ to catch fire_*
Question please John, does the dealership charge the owner a disposal fee of a lithium battery when it is replaced with a new one? If so have you been informed of what those fees might be? How does a dealer even dispose of these batteries? Do they just call the garbage faries and they magically disappear?
Ours does 😶
Bought a used EV battery went out in a yesr. It wasn't covered under warranty.
28,900 to replace.
@@kenik2023 Hm? 28,900 what? US dollars?
What car was that? 🤔
No, because they are not being "disposed" in the first place.
The assumption that anyone would throw away hundreds of kg of precious metals is ridiculous.
@@kenik2023 so how much was the disposal charge on the invoice?
@@Tschacki_Quacki Was that a Nissan Leaf ?
If we had a mega battery factory and built cars in Australia there could be a avenue to recycle and reuse old lithium car batteries! However, who will bear the cost to dismantle the EV 400-500kg battery into its usable components and then ship it over seas? Bear in mind it would have to be cheaper than what we’re already mining and shipping off shore!
Right on the mark...again!
As always John thanks so much for sharing and for your rational and your wake-up call on what is an important issue that is so easily pushed under the carpet. Think it’s disgraceful that the powers that be are to busy worrying about their side projects like the voice or trying to look they care about the environment and this country’s future while still forgetting about reality.
Reality has no place in politics, unless its about looking after vested interests. The voice is another '' nothing to see here, look over there'' ploy to keep us distracted from the real issues that are too hard or inconvenient for the powers that be.
Thanks mate. I really do want to do the right thing, and I certainly don't want to burn up my garbo (even if he ate my bin once and I had to complain to the Council to get a replacement), but I suspected that no one else is paying much attention to the requirement to recycle lithium ion batteries. Either it is too expensive to be profitable and/or the government is just too lazy to actually do something to protect us from the fire hazard they warn us about. They already ding us with an extra environmental tax, but I suppose if it were profitable to recycle lithium batteries we'd have entrepreneurs knocking on our doors and asking for them. I should ask my nephews - they make a pretty penny collecting on the return on cans and bottles (such industry probably won't last through their teen years, but they think it is free money now).
It's happening mate, but because people like Johnno keep trying to farm clicks preaching about how it's a waste of time, a lot of people just don't realise how easy and effective it is. Just take your used cells to the nearest supermarket and chuck 'em in the battery bin, and tell your mates. It's not hard.
@@SafeTrucking And where do they go from there? I've already had this scam with plastic bags. If you want them, though, come on by and I'll give you what I've got.
@@davewalter1216 They get recycled, mate. There aren't any warehouses filled with unrecyclable batteries, they are genuinely a valuable commodity. So just drop them in the battery bin next time you're at the shops mate, I'm sure you can figure out how it works when you get there. Give me a call if you need instructions.
@@SafeTrucking I don't think you understand my point - if recycling lithium batteries were profitable, then why doesn't my Council or some industrious capitalist collect them? I'm tired of recycling scams - and the guilt/shaming attempt to get people to tape all their AA batteries and the like and dump them at Woolworths seems very much like just another way to get you into their stores. Only Bunnings seems to be interested in power tool battery recycling - and I'll thank you for getting me to look that up and will use it. I don't mind driving to Bunnings. That still leaves most of the population throwing their batteries in the rubbish bin.
On point on this one John.
Of course they can and will be recycled. I spent 30 years in the recycling industry, the recyclers can make the technology work, but they need to make a profit, the politicians need to ensure that landfill charges are sufficiently high to allow the recyclers to charge less than landfill ,but enough to allow them to be profitable. Maybe a disposable charge on the purchase price,tyre fitters now charge you for the disposal cost.
This is how it worked in the UK, I recycled Plasterboard, Tyres, paper and plastic,oils,solvents, organic sludges, organic solids,waste cooking oils,bone meal , inorganic mineral wastes etc, all because landfill either banned them or made the cost too high. Give the recyclers the chance to make a profit and they will make it happen. I have now retired, but if I was starting again, EV batteries would be top of my list.
You do realise the ship fire was not caused by EV cars, they do not yet know the cause but the cars were identified as not the cause.
Thanks for this John. I was certainly under the impression that batteries would be recycled. The infrastructure is in place in America and Europe from what I have seen, and it can be done successfully. Hard to believe that our government hasn’t addressed this. Let’s hope they get the message soon.
They can't be recycled in Canada yet either , but then that's the same thing with the covid masks 😷🐑🙈
Also on lithium batteries, some of our woke mining companies are going battery electric for underground use in light vehicles and heavy vehicles and both of them get treated like like what you see littering the Ukrainian counteyside. If one of those big loaders ever have a battery fire it could be a catastrophic event. Those big girls are currently powered 500kw diesels so you could imagine the size of the batery in them I am talking about hardrock mines not coal mines I doubt that they would let them down there. I sincerely hope one doesn't having lived an underground fire 35 years ago, its not a fun experience, you cannot see anything in a smoke filled mine. The poor bastards on the end of a blind development heading with forced ventilation would not stand a chance.
EV’s are everywhere and we’ve had all of… zero… self-combusting fires here in Australia. Plenty of other things to worry about imho.
LiFePo batteries are inherently safer than Li-Ion batteries and are being put in vehicles more and more.
@@peejayem4700That simply isn't true and you know it.🙈🐑🤔
@@rickschritt1616 Can you support your comment? Here is quote from Car Expert Aust site: “Specific to Australia, Ms Sutcliffe claims “there have been only four passenger EV battery fires that we’re aware of in Australia”, three of which were parked in structures that burned down and took the EVs with them, and one that was linked to arson”
@@peejayem4700 Well I can tell you that there is a large freighter ship with 500 EV's and 2500 ICE vehicles on it will a out of control EV fire on it and will be sinking shortly causing wide spread environmental damage and this is the second ship to sink from a EV caused fire and in California where EV's are relatively widely used lots of EV caused car fires and house fires and finally look into EV fire's in China , you Lefties live in a dream world , wakey wakey.🐑🙈
Battery recycling should be mandatory. I suspect that it's more economic to recycle a battery from a Tesla Model X than one of John's Manscape devices. Maybe if 1000 of us send our spent Manscape batteries to John he will be able to get them recycled. Otherwise, apparently, they generate copious amounts of heat when burning, so could replace a few coal burning power plants if they are incinerated.
I have been trying to recycle NiMH and Li ions for 20 years here, in USA. Right now, I am filling a plastic barrel in my barn.
Was there actually anything about EV battery recycling in this video?
- Manscaping is irrelevant (to this topic at least). 😉
- A company's greenwashing BS is one thing. Actual battery recycling is another.
- He didn't debunk Hyundai's claims about EV battery recyclability (which should be ~90-100% or so).
- Battery "second life" re-use (like the Nissan case) is different from recycling them as materials.
- That an individual battery re-use case only manages to save a miniscule portion of the whole country's energy consumption doesn't mean that EV batteries can't be recycled.
- The lack of recycling infrastructure of a certain product in a certain country doesn't mean it can't be done in general.
- That aussies throw CR2032s and Makita batteries to landfills (Seriously? You still have landfills?) doesn't mean that EV batteries can't or won't be recycled.
- End-of-life cars (or their batteries) are not thrown to the trashbin. They are taken to an auto wrecking company which (hopefully also in Australia) dismantles it properly and environmentally safely collecting e.g. all the oils and coolants before actually scrapping the car. Usually many parts are also salvaged and resold. (EV batteries too sometimes)
- Acknowledging aboriginals more than left-handed people doesn't mean that EV batteries can't or won't be recycled.
- Instead of "waiting for free market" to solve the issue governments and such are doing and could do something.
- That we haven't for decades recycled the CR2032s and Makita batteries doesn't mean that we couldn't recycle EV batteries.
- It's probably a matter of economics and EV batteries have massive amounts of material per unit which could make it more economical. And they do contain "a resource that is precious". Have you seen EV battery prices? That gets the "free market" interested in recycling.
- Even the other kind of batteries don't just go to landfills in "civilized countries" anyway. They are processed as hazardous waste.
I was hoping for more relevant content. I have no doubt John could produce it.
Some real issues with EV battery recycling could be:
- Storing them could be risky (as some may catch fire).
- Recycling might take a lot of energy. (Then again what doesn't?)
- It might also require dangerous chemicals.
- What happens to the e.g. 5% of material that can't be re-used?
- They are large and heavy, so transportation also has an environmental impact.
- Are the materials as good as ones sourced via mining? (Yes they are, even better as they were already purified and enriched once.)
Waiting for a part 2... 😀
Nice one John .... It is the how the politicians come to adopt the head in the sand mentality that worries me. Do they have a system that filters out physical facts that don't meet with their "idiotology"?
♬ Oh the Handyman can! ♬
My balls haven't thanked me in years, time to spoil myself!