Three 4090 Melted Connectors. This is Toxic.
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- čas přidán 9. 11. 2023
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If "user error" happens way too often, it's called bad design not user error
The DC10 of video cards.
100% agree
One of thing i like of my 7900 XTX is thy stil use 3x 8 pin and not what nvidia use.
The entire 12VHPWR specification is quietly going to waste. It is replaced by 12V-2×6 with a SENSE channel. Of course, you need to have a power supply that supports it, a cable and a new graphics card. But the Corps won't admit they screwed up.
@@robinenbernhard
And you have 110°C and throttling😂
Cancer from carcinogenic fumes is a big deal. I'm glad you are highlighting the dangers of it and using proper safety measures.
when i was little dumb I was ligthing my plastic toys on fire a lot 💀
Is the black leather jacket going to pay for the chemo?
Pasta térmica é cancerígena
Yes, and cancer isn't the only concern either. There are other health issues you can get from breathing in smoke/ fumes etc..
cancers appearing from k0v1d vacciens is far worse
Honestly at this point this is insane that there are that many melting connectors. Can't believe there's not a class action yet.
Still!
What's happening with these 4090 connectors is a manufacturer's crime!
Excellent demo of the NF.sucker.
It isn't the card end of the connector that is causing the problem. It is the cable socket from the power supply that is not seating properly for the power that is being drawn by the card. If I had one I would depin and tighten that female side. A tight hole is the best.
Idk bro mines and all my friends who have one in Panama none have issue so far all from launch
@@WhiteG60 It seems like a lot. However how many 4090 have been sold? What is the % of failure? I can almost guarantee that if you run the numbers it is less an 1/4 of 1%.
@@dublindave5795 partially true because there is more to it:
loose connector has less surface area internally which means if you push current higher you also raise the temperature of connection which further raises resistance and this turns into a domino effect where in return connector melts due to insane resistance caused by combination of poor internal connection and high amounts of current
only things which can fix this problem are:
a) usage of higher melting temperature plastic
b) increasing surface area internally by increasing pin thickness
c) increasing surface area internally by increasing pin and pad length
d) improving latching design tolerances for less wiggle by adding extra latches for sides
e) improving latching design tolerances for less wiggle by improving latch tolerances
and whoever blames user error for NVIDIA and PCI SIG's fuck up AKA this connector should not even speak about the problem because connector redundancy should be favored over aesthetics
Nah just dumb users!
You have inspired me to open my own electronics repair business in my state where I live next year. I can not hardly wait as this is a passion of mine since I was a 8 years old and repairing my NES system at the time.
Keep up the good work sir.
Kinda makes me glad I went with an AMD Radeon when I upgraded a few months ago
Ick. 3000 series with FG mod.
i have a 4090 and these videos send shivers down my spine
@NorthridgeFix If you are referring to the Sorin video, he mentions that it took him about 30 minutes to clean the board at 9:45.
@@kepler104i think sorin is very good at fault finding but his methods of repair is not very clean and sometimes very dodgy, like not replacing caps,fuses or properly cleaning solder pads flux residues and so on
But he does the job cheaper. Probably way less than alex charges for his work
@@kepler104 Anyone who says "This is a niiiice laptop" regardless of the heap of junk in front of him is OK with me.
its crazy how he criticise other people. he thinks he's perfect. and no he aint.
This is so crazy, I just did high five myself for choosing 7900XTX
Your channel is a glimpse into the new age master crafts of engineering fault problem solving.
Bravo Sir!
😂 Potatoe Card
@@Fistxx What's not potato then? 4090?
@@maerto yes, but it will turn into a pumpking after -midnight- connector dies.
I just discovered you channel today. I have nothing to do with the tech industry. Somehow I got addicted to the high levels of professionalism you display.
Keep it up and greetings from Europe.
Gamers Nexus stated that the issue was due to the connector not being inserted fully. Meaning that this could be caused by loose connectors, or even shifting during install or over time. All of this still points to a problem with the connector itself. Nvidia took this, pushed all blame, and stated that it was user error.
I don't believe this, though I am aware that is what some are saying. If it is due to flexing the cable or not being fully inserted then it is still a design flaw in the connecter, though this issue is so well known and prevalent that there is no way it is avoidable by fully inserting the connecter or using 90 degree adapters. It is a poor design, incapable of flowing the amperage required for these GPUs, plain and simple. This one is on NVIDIA and the designers of this connecter. With a product this expensive the components need to be over designed, this looks really bad on NVIDIA, no matter how one slices it. Blaming it on user error is weak, anyone having this problem should be getting this repaired for free by NVIDIA for the life of the GPU.
Thanks Steve
Steve only found one source of the error. Does the GN studio run a dozen 4090's hard on a daily basis?
GN's video from earlier this year did leave a bit of blame on the connector design, but people ran with the user error part. They claimed to have watched the video but they clearly didn't.
Steve doesn't always do or say the most consumer friendly things either, so there's that too.
I'm just wondering if its defective connector/design flaw then wouldn't it happen the same way again?
Seems like a clear design flaw, hope they learn from this for the 50 series.
I'm building my first desktop PC. I went with the Liquid Devil AMD Radeon 7900xtx graphics card because of what I learned about the NVIDIA RTX4090 power connector...Thank you Alex!
I think it would be really beneficial if you could get an accurate count of how many you have fixed/ have in queue and release this publicly. We can then get numbers from other repair shops which will help us get a real idea of how widespread this is.
We can then use these numbers to pressure big names in the hardware space *cough* GN *cough* - because they honestly still think that this isn't a big deal.
This card costs $2700 - $3500 Australian dollars like... it shouldn't have this issue and if it does - NVIDIA should fix them.
These cards aren’t coming from members of the public, he does the work directly for manufacturers
@@oxfordsparky He does a lot of work for cable mods. I do not think he is getting them from Nvidia themselves.
He has only mentioned cablemod, idk if other 3rd party board makers are sending them to him though.
Usually, especially since the GN video, - warranty service is refused on these cards with this issue.
BTW the general consensus now is that the cablemod plugs are even worse.
Unfortunate.
This connector is such a disaster, fr.
while this is obviously a design failure, there's something to be said about the percentage of these that are due to Cablemod adapters. A quick look on their subreddit will even prove this, they almost have a post every other day.
The non-cablemod cases are definitely design issues and a low percentage of them is user error.
I haven't heard GN talk about connectors since the update to connector specs months ago. I don't think it's really on GN's radar.
@@noahbirdrevolution They did talk about it again briefly.
The issue is they should talk about it more as after their analysis they concluded it was user error - which strengthened these manufacturers case to refuse warranty claims.
There are so many of these like they can't ALL be user error.
Very impressive research on the solder suckers. I haven't used one since I was a child with my first soldering iron. Glad to see there are working ones out there.
The big blue and yellow ones are pretty good. Much more durable than the el cheapo ones, and they have way better suction.
20-25 cards PER WEEK ?! Holy shit that's way too many
Now, this is a man dedicated to his craft. Amazing work as always, good sir!
Glad to see a successful repair outfit that is also promoting safety gear.
I bought a respirator for use with epoxy resin because since i had life threatening asthma as a child (i am 42) i know what not being able to breathe feels like.
Breathing is good. And according to Californias Proposition 65: nearly every consumer electronic product on the market today contains materials that if handled improperly, can cause cancer.
I am telling myself way too many inappropriate jokes about the best sucker in town. 😂
Low melt solder is great. It really helps in the removal of power transistors where the heatsink is soldered to the board.
Thanks for the video Alex; enjoy your weekend.
I thought I was the only one, it almost felt deliberate 🤣
There's something special how you teach people, im someone who have hard time to stay focus when someone explain something but on your videos i can watch and learn like never before and im not in this kind of hobbie/profession. There's a reason anyway why you have almost 400K subs things works and your a master at what you do !
You could also probably use a solding iron with vacuum pump. They work incredible for cleaning holes.
I really need to see what you can do for that Rossman MacBook. That would be an amazing video.
Using high power gas soldering tool and puling pins one by one produces less toxic fumes from melting plastic. Technique to pull pins depends on connector type. For straight connectors - puling pins out by pliers, 90 degree connectors need pins cutting off first before puling them out.
Really cool to see the difference in quality between the NF.Sucker and the others! Good work!
Good work. Clean and tidy. Better than the factory🙂
It is essential to have the proper tools. Sometimes it takes a lot time and money of trial and error. We have transitioned over from corded tools to cordless. We spent thousands finding the right setup. Our productivity and efficiency is at its peak with minimum downtime
20-25 GPUs per week is an INSANE amount. Imagine paying 2k$ for a graphics card and it nearly burns down. How long have those cards being in the market and still no improvement for that connector. Shame on Nexus for blaming the customers.
Hey alex, amazing video as always and you can also use the sucker from the bottom heating the hole from the top with a soldering iron works great no need of hot air that way. I always use this technique when im cleaning holes😁
^This is what I've been doing for 12 years.
I love when someone is so good at their work that you can tell how proud they are, it is fun to watch. Bravo
the plug has been revised on newer cards, new one is called 12v-2x6, if you are buying plugs get that one
Good info right here!
SORIN
Good to see that Northridge also employs suckers. I have hope for my professional career.
I have an identical solder sucker. Picked it up back when Radioshack was still around and it still works perfectly
I know exactly who Alex is talking about, and he usually does an amazing job. His videos are usually 20-30 min long, but he also has a channel where he keeps his videos really short, 8-12 min.
Also, he did mention it took him a long time in the video.
Who is this channel? I saw one guy with no class who bagged NF badly in a few videos.
LOL that is a lot of 4090's. GN sometimes think they know more about things than they really do. They almost always have a small sample size (of 1), for testing. Then make a prediction from that.
your absolutely correct.
Dont know why he seems to be protecting the corporation.
It is an engineer flaw, period.
Now I understand why you haven’t posted a video in a few days, you are up to your neck in work! I guess it is always best to have more work than less right? Loving the videos, keep up the great work Alex & Co!
With the new PCIe 5.1 and AX3.1 release, the cable has improved, but Jayz already showed that the cable still can be wiggled. I have the little brother (4070) that has this connector, and I am glad I saw your videos, so now I had been forewarned and made 100% sure the cable is properly connected.
The problem isn't to do with the fact that the connector "can be wiggled" -- it's the fact that the connector slowly ejects itself over the course of a few months of use.
@@angleisthebest If you have tight cabling I can see that, but if you don't the connector is not going to magically eject itself.
@@tsdobbi yeah it does. Due to the heat, it ejects itself over 2-3 months time to the point where it becomes a fire hazard if you don't recheck the connection. You don't need to explain the issue to me -- I saw it myself and returned the 4090 for this reason. Not a chance in hell I'll ever buy one again if Nvidia doesn't switch to a different connector.
Damn, you should have picked a 4070 board that uses standard 8-pin connector - there's quite a few to choose from.
@@javiersantana848 keep coping, fanboy. Northridge Fix and derbauer are already waking up to the problem. This has already been shown to be the case on Reddit and forums multiple times.
I bought a solder sucker that is built into a soldering iron. The tip is metal and gets hot instead of using a plastic tip. Works pretty good IMO.
Same its very fast to desolder components
On boards with big planes like this, I dual wield irons; I stand the board vertically in a vise, cut the connector or component off, apply flux liberally, use a pencil tip on one side and a Hakko desoldering tool on the other side. Dual wielding feels cool and works fine in most applications.
I stay to the last second of each of your videos only for the jingle "Better than factory" ☺ Good job Alex, as always! 😘
My 7900XTX is laughing right now.
Lets all thank nvidia for keeping this man employed 😆
I’m very excited and happy that you again have created something that will help you and many others to be able to do this job more easily and fast as well as very efficiently, your margins on buying copper braid should come down too majorly not having to use so much of it anymore plus it now allows those who use it more to get it faster as you are no longer using it!!, keep up all the great work you do for the world and all life on it!❤
I really like your videos. I also repair board every day and for me a desoldering station like the weller it's really a game changer in this type of businesses. Have you ever think to try this type of solution ?
Keep it up with your videos!!
This is the first time in history that power connectors have been so poorly designed.
It's also the first time they have up to 800Watts running through them!!
Up to 600W, but yes. A design that makes it easy to not be fully plugged in, or become slightly unseated, detection systems that are not good enough, and a massive amount of amperage going through very small wires gives you very little margin for error.
The new connector was a mistake to begin with. What were they thinking of pushing 600+W in such tiny connector???
You can add a small rubber tube that fits in the tip of the solder sucker for long-lasting usage.i am using a ruber tube from an old crt tv. Using same solder sucker for 2+ years..
What a talent ! God bless you and your work!
I guess if it was user error, you would find it in the same proportion with any other card. Why is this only happening to 4090s? definitely not user error
User error? When the volume of melted connectors reaches these proportions, there's clearly a manufacturers issue whether the user can stop it or not.
As always, solid, good quality work. Not sure why you don’t use desoldering station with a vacuum pump.
I’m relieved to know this channel and company exists. In case anything happens to my electronics they are coming to you asap.
So, quite recently I had this happen to my Gigabyte 4090. Thankfully they accepted it under RMA, although I am concerned about what happens if it burns up again. Also at the rate of this new connector fails how hasn't an outside agency investigated yet?
With how big PC channels made it look like it's 100% user error then Nvidia won't do anything about it
How sure are you that it was fully inserted? Just curious.
Fellow Geeks and Nerds!!! Give this man the credit he deserves while he's happy, healthy and still with us. Amazing work and skills. Thank You!
This is called a design fault. Common in disposable capitalism.
you're the best man, i went to LA a few months ago and i just wanted to visit your store just to shake your hand! thanks for what you do
I felt the gamer nexus video said that it was "technically user error" but was Nvidia fault to let it be a common error, so it was a Nvidia problem
That is what GN implied, Alex like to badmouth others because he thinks he is the best there is. Being pigheaded will be the downfall of his channel.
@@SnootyAhole worse than factory comment
Don't know if you'll read this, but someone in the industry suspects it's a card problem and not a user error. Supposedly, the card's PCB next to the connector gets too hot, that heat is transfered to the power pins and adds up to the heat generated by the power draw, making the terminal reach temperatures superior to the melting temps of the plastic => melting occurs.
My daughter has a top end GPU. It was blacking out every day. It has a 12VPWR connector. Here's how I solved the problem;
First, there are 6 smaller "sense" connections below the 12 main power connections. These are the key to the problem. As power increases, resistance builds across the power pins and the "sense" wires detect a voltage drop. I added extra wires to the GPU connector by using one of the 12V 8 pin PCI connectors. This SOLVED the blackout problem and distributed power more evenly into the GPU
That solder pump is too good lol. Was using aluminum wires(thin rods) to push up from other side(basically fill hole) while heating with solder iron on one side when I was in college. Since solder doesn't stick to Aluminum that well, it breaks off super easy too.
But damn, would've been an easy job with the NF.Sucker
That NF sucker was available in Poland even 15 years ago. TBH quite standard tool :)
It’s about time Nvidia move up to 48v connectors.
Not using 12v and 650w
Yes
That soldering is better than factory as always. Geez. GG Alex. Shout out from the Philippines
How is the melting point of the new soldering iron? You have to apply low melt to mix with the original one to remove the connector, otherwise it does not melt with the tip and head you use. But when you solder the new connector, is the new iron have high enough melting temperature?
Do you keep the old connectors? It would be cool to see the kill (fix) count.
great idea
As an owner of RTX 4090 SG from KFA2 (GALAX Outside EU) i am worried the same thing might happen to me while doing some serious long time 3D rendering for clients. Right now to reduce any risks my case is pretty much open wide to not even slightly bend the connectors since couldnt find any to even fit that card in the horizontal position. so far hoping that cables from Thermaltake GF3 and my card's connector arent some low quality even without any OC applied
NF is right this is a manufacturing issue but also to be on the safe side and avoid a round to a repair shop u should try keeping it restraint or pressed by some makeshift method of your own like a little ziptie keeping the connectors joined
If it melts it's not the end of the world. I had a customer's 4090 where I was absolutely unable to obtain a new connector, we opted to cut down a cable from be quiet power supply and soldered it straight in. If it melts now, it will melt on power supply connector, not at the card.
One of things i like of my 7900 XTX is amd stil use 3x 8 pin and not what nvidia use.
Indeed superb job done. SIR. Great teacher on earth today.
6:43 450C? wow. I'd never thought that it should be that high to desolder those connectors.
Big beefy ground/power planes are very good heatsinks, sometimes you just need more DAKKA!
I found this on a technical site about the connector. "The failure that Gamers Nexus was able to re-create in its labs involved connecting the 12VHPWR power connector to an RTX 4090 without inserting it fully and then bending the cable to one side, making the connection even worse. After just a few minutes of testing, the loose connection's high power resistance generated heat above 250° Celsius, causing smoke and visible bubbling as the connector melted in its socket."
when reapplying the solder to the connector do you use low melt to resolder it or lead?
I recently purchased a new Asus RTX 4090 OC (not the OG OC) and the card I have is still using the old connector. I'm using a cablemod right angle cable (not the adapter) and I have 4 thermal sensors mounted on the plug that I can monitor from Aida64 and Corsair iCUE. Currently my plug's highest temps I've hit were 38C under a 450w load 30min.
I suspect that over time the cable plug may degrade causing the temps to increase. I plan to keep a spare cable on hand just in case. Once the new plugs become available to purchase along w/ the new 3.1 PSU's I'll prolly upgrade.
nvidia is 🔥🔥🔥
Gotta live up to the name
I believe the only justification for providing such power (450W or more) over 12V line was to avoid having special PSU's. Design flaw introduced by manufacturer - basics knowledge in electrical engineering is sufficient to understand this. Does anyone knows if this melted connectors are result of overclocking or just regular usage? Wonder how long my 4090 is going to last ...
I believe there were 4090s melting with and without overclock. People have reported having their 4090 work fine with an overclock. Could try undervolting maybe? Not sure if there is any pattern to the connector melting, wonder if anybody has trustworthy info on observed patterns for the 4090 connector melting.
When you perform this kind of fix, do you use the new and "improved" 12V-2x6 connector? Or just use the same kind of connector as that is on the card?
On one of my jobs I had a hot air station with an external compressor and a fine tip blowing hot air on high volume into a very small area like a single hole, this thing ate solder out of holes way faster than you can do with the sucker especially preheated, I have used the same sucker you have there already when I was learning my job as electrician they work good, but if you have to strip many holes its slow and put mechanical stress on he solder holes too.
link?
@@Tuesday_Morning Sounds like a Pace station. They offer hot-air pencils. They look like solder irons, but can deliver hot air at set pressure to very small joints and as the pencil is by far not as bulky as the average hot air station, you can get into many narrow spots without doing any damage to nearby components that would suffer from a hot air nozzle.
Why the author doesn't use a heated desoldering iron is beyond me. I'm also into professional electronics repair and would not want to live without both a preheater/underheater and my desoldering iron.
Yeah...march of this year, I purchased a Sapphire AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT gpu and extremely happy. Many of my online/gaming friends complained about the 4090 and what happens when a heavy load is pushed on it.
Gamers Nexus *GOT PRESSED*
Now he's going to make an entire video series on Northridge fix trying to take him down 😂
what happend
Can’t wait for Steve’s smirk rebuttal 😂
Like Alex said before we have been plugging the graphics cards in the same way for years... And it's crazy to say your doing it wrong on one card but all the other cards are doing it correctly lol
@@xevilmxyip. That guy just needs to get a good clean hair cut and goto electronics engineering school. To be honest he is just a trial and error guy with little knowledge of electronics engineering fundamentals.
Hi Alex, when you repare the power connector, you replace them with H+ or H++ connector ?
the connectors you are replacing, are they the new 12v 2x6 connector? or still the 12vhpwr? (I have a ticket open 4090 melted cablemod 90 deg)
This is the reason why I bought a vertical mount. My 4090 has been vertically mounted from day 1 to reduce any tension on the cable and connector, in an effort to minimise the chances of the connector melting.
Yeah but you lose bandwidth so not as great performance
MY own was in an upright mount with a wire supporting the cable so there was no strain on the connector.. fully seated..Still melted... no where near full power draw when it happened. Its a design flaw plain and simple. the consumer can only be expected to do so much before its a design flaw...makes you wonder if this is why there is no 4090 ti?
I use a stand at the end of the card to help support the weight
@@drkrskyz2291same happened to me. With just 270 watts powerdraw at that moment.
Your 4090 repairs got covered in today’s episode of TechLinked! (Linus Media Group)
That sucks.
That low melt solder did a lot more than I would have expected....wow I am a believer.
People spend thousands on 4090 will say anything to justify their purchase.
The content creators blaming user error are clearly more concerned about damaging their relationship with hardware manufacturers and missing out on all the freebies and trips they get than being honest with their viewers.
@@mikedw6748 No, they're not, not at Gamer's Nexus. You really don't know them if you think that. They're not claiming that this problem is always user error, or usually user error even.
Nvidia: It's only .01 pecent! You must be unlucky. Make sure its plugged in fully!
Next customer: My 12 pin burned up.
Nvidia: It's only .01 percent!! You must be unlucky, Make sure its plugged in fully!
What will we do without your humor... Great video. ❤
Hi, are these connectors better then the original connectors or are they the same I just had my 4090 melt. What's the failure rate after installing a new one.
This GPU should have been recalled long ago, Nvidia manipulated everyone into making it as if it was user error, and their $hills Gamersnexus did it for them free of charge.
shills like gamers nexus are the reason why GPU companies dont bother changing their designs. GN is just worried that they will get taken off the GPU reviewer list
Im glad you called out corporate shills like Gamers Nexus blaming user error for a terrible design......where i live under high ambient conditions that cheap tiny plastic 4090 connector will guaranteed melt in few days of use....... that tiny connector can no way withstatnd 400+ watts of heat , what earlier used to be pulled through 3 large 8 pin connectors is now being pulled through one tiny 12 pin connector , its simple physics that sh!t is going to burn......
i believe it is planned obsolescence by greedy nvidia so customers are forced to upgrade their cards every year or two......plz continue to call out this greedy corporates treating customers like sh!t
I have been using sucker for years. I can remember the time when you said you could not use them. Welcome on board. 😊
Gamers nexus needs to delete its channel.
I have the Kotto Sucker and its pretty strong. The exchangeable tip idea makes a lot of sense.
Your work is inspiring and impeccable!
Alex the mask is usless if not stored correct, a charcoal mask require a seald storing after use, if not the charcoale is deplited after 24 hours and require replacement filters. Filter also need to be replaced after about 24 hours of use, but when stored correct has a use time for 24 hours, and not 24 clock times, as it has stored open. Put it in a sealed box or plastic bag after use.
I have used the blue one at my job I was a repair tech / conformal coating tech for an electronics assembly site they worked well with 6 mil boards any thing bigger found to be difficult even with preheating boards
Thank you for the reply
25:45 Those joints are oddly satisfying to look at, awesome work
You would think they would make a connector out of metal or something I used to work in the automotive field seen the same thing on some applications they used metal connectors or aluminum of sorts alot of heat happening at the connector from the board side I dunno I'm not an expert.your a pro at what you do and I like watching your videos to learn something.
Isn't there a way to apply heat to the metal pins on the connector side, plus apply heatgun on the other solderingpoints and just pull it out? Like direct plugin heating of some make? Or if connector is "gone" you would need to strip the plastic of the pins first to directly heating them?