Batman's Failed Femme Fatale? - A Roxy Rocket Retrospective
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- čas přidán 12. 03. 2022
- Batman has a roster full of unique villains. During his time in the DCAU (the DC animated universe) his rogues gallery expanded. The success of characters like Harley Quinn led to an attempt to create even more new baddies for the caped crusader. Over in the tie in comic - The Batman Adventures- Bruce Timm and Paul Dini tried their hand at a new female villain the form of Roxy Rocket. Despite an animated episode (The Ultimate Thrill) and transferring into the DC Comics universe; this thrill seeking stunt woman never quite took off. Why was that? Did/does she have potential? Find out here on Casually Comics!
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She sounds like she could be a pretty fun Nightwing-villain. He often has villains who are/used to be performers. He's also a real thrillseeker at times so they would reflect each other well.
Best idea thus far
That would be a great idea.
First hero that sprung to my mind.
That would work amazingly. I always felt she was… slightly out of place as a batman villain- but she’d be perfect as a nightwing villain
Okay, but the amount of innuendo if she interacted with a guy called "Dick" would probably pierce the pages of the comic.
I feel she could work as a member of the suicide squad. Be a stunt woman she has the physical skill and strength necessary for mission not to mention some acting ability so she could do undercover work as well. Honestly she'd just make a good reformed villain.
Nice 👍🏾 🖖🏾
I'm imagining Christina Hendricks "hotwiring" a plane to help the squad get to the next location on the mission.
That would be awesome, even in the TNBA episode she’s not really a villain she just does it for the thrills.
And a running gag could be that she keeps surviving missions.
She'd be a great anti-heroine! But I guess that's what MOST of the Suicide Squad members are, right? Though, I think the Suicide Squad members are more corrupt, evil, or vile than Roxy is, so I don't know about that. Or just heroine that used to be bad like you said!
I feel like this character would fit perfectly into the Harley Quinn the animated series
Kite Man’s Rebound “Hell Yeah”!🖖🏾
@@rodneylindsey849 that’s exactly what I was thinking lol
@@rodneylindsey849 Hope the writers are scrolling the comments, bc this is a great idea!
I think the flash they both love speed it be a constant race battle
Rocket kites
How the DCAU’s writing team got all of Roxy’s innuendos into one script still astounds me.
Where there's a will there's a way lol
@@CasuallyComics hope u see my comments
Watch the Birds of Prey episode of Batman: Brave and the Bold. There's a musical number which is non-stop sexual entendres start to finish: "Aquaman's always courageous / His little fish less outrageous," while she wiggles her finger.
@@NoJusticeNoPeace But that episode didn't air in the USA.
@@Blokewood3 You can find it on CZcams. I'd post a link, but I think this channel blocks URLs. I can't even put it in a playlist for people because (ironically enough) CZcams won't allow you to put videos deemed to be "for children" into playlists.
The thing about Roxy as a stuntwoman being an adrenaline junkie could have been dived into more for the fact that there is a legitimate brain chemistry phenomenon with a lot, if not all ‘career’ daredevils. It’s been found with fMRIs that in the daredevils studied their insula is more active than your the average joe you’d pull off the street’s brain during risky behavior.
The insula being a key neurological location in habit forming as well as physiological addiction.
Along with this, daredevils, and active high risk takers have been shown to consistently have issues with their dopamine receptors. The parts of our brain that signal that we’re getting enough stimulation, and assist in executive function. For these risk takers it’s taking risks that makes their brain feel BASELINE. Everything else in comparison is painful(fellow Adhd brains out there know just how tortuous being under-stimulated and dopamine deficient can be)
So if they’d taken a chance to look into just how destructive needing to take more and more risks was on her and the toll that agonizing mundanity has, and her showing she actually is wanting some normalcy… yeah, that could have actually made for a legitimate “Batman” villain.
But that wasn’t what we got, and that’s not the direction we took. I still think she’s an alright villain
I’m glad you bring Scarecrow’s “Study Hall” comic up. It’s my absolute favorite
Consider also the extremes taking risks can be pushed to in a superhero setting; not just crime, but the methods of doing them. Magic. Experimental tech. Genetic modification. Roxy still wanting that safety net & not wanting anyone to get hurt makes for a great push-and-pull. Like, the moment Sasha said “Green Lantern,” my brain went “Have her steal a ring.” The rocket might be iconic for her, but it’d be so much more of a thrill to really, truly *fly* out there. The disregard for her own safety could also very easily lead her into a sympathetic henchman role, like if a more science-y villain gave her superpowers but they’d become dangerously unstable without a certain medication; not wanting anyone else to be hurt by her, Roxy would be forced to go along with that villain’s schemes. We could see some moments of grounded reality setting back in with moments like the Catwoman fight, with Roxy hootin’ & hollerin’ over her victory only to look at the wreckage where her opponent landed as the smile slips off her face, she cautiously calls out a few times, and then runs over in a panic trying to dig them out. Alternatively, a moment when she decides to cut & run because a job’s gotten out of hand (either her boss has become a danger to *her* or someone is going to get legitimately hurt,) and we see just how scared she is under the mask; the hero leans out of their cell saying if she’s leaving anyway she should free them, while Roxy’s all “That’s your thing. Me? I don’t wanna wake up dead over this,” but also having a serious internal debate over whether to risk her own neck to help someone while she has the chance.
She’d never be a good vigilante because she wouldn’t want to be picking fights with people-seems more of a practical “get out while I can” type, even if she’d normally realize it was time to bail after getting a few miles in too deep-but she could work really well in the shades of grey.
But guys, she has a rocket thingy. That's kinda cool. I think it's cool
I want to see Matt Reeves utilize Roxy this way.
I need a Kite-Man/Roxy Rocket team up. Why hasn't anyone thought of this?
What would the story be about ?
*checks IMDB*
Aww, she's not in the upcoming Kite Man: Hell Yeah! animated show.
What if Roxy was in no one's rogues gallery? Like, let's say there's one or two characters she messes with more than any other, like Flash and Green Lantern, but on the whole she's someone who's always on the move and never in the same place for very long, so she ends up being villains for all kinds a different characters.
That's the niche she should try to inhabit.
One-shot/fill-in issues, she shows up, turns the town on its head pulling a adrenaline pumping heist.
Make the book feel like a stunt show, the prefect palette cleanser.
"Enemies With Benefits" should totally be a series!
Enemies With Benefies
Wonder Woman and Roxy Rocket
YES!
I honestly keep forgetting about her until someone like Dini brings her back up. They really tried to have lightning strike twice with Harley, and never caught on. I like her aviator look, but always thought the rocket could be sleeker or do more, and in JL Action... It kinda does?
I think they kinda did make it work with livewire. Shame she never got more popular
At least Roxie is not at all a Harley clone, right?
I think a part of Harley success was she added to an already great villain and was shown to be very interesting with or without him. So rocket had a harder time as she needed to stand all by herself for her first outing.
She showed up in White Knight, if I recall correctly. Then again, that book has a lot of references to BTAS.
I think the thing is Harley's supposed to be sexy but also a bit obnoxious. Live Wire dialed up the obnoxious part, so she wasn't as popular, but is still well remembered. Roxie was just a step too far in the other direction.
To my mind, the most interesting thing about Roxy is that, while she appears reckless, and seems to be taking unacceptable risks, she doesn't actually injure anyone. She's criminal rather than villainous, and with her motivation being the thrill of the caper, she's not that invested in the loot either - I can certainly see her and a pragmatic hero having a -with-benefits relationship where if he catches her, they hook up and she gives up the loot...
Roxy: "Whoo! I cannot believe that I managed to pull off that heist! Giant gem, and no heroes to chase me! I wonder what they must be up to?"
Meanwhile, the JLA: Fighting another Crisis on Earth *Insert Number Here*
Roxy: "Honestly, this ain't fun anymore, 3 heists and clean getaways in."
5 minutes later: Roxy walks back into the bank, places the jewels in front of the bank teller, (awkwardly): "I'm here to make a deposit. Get some overhead cameras while you're at it."
@@utubrGaming that is very accurate
@@utubrGaming honestly that would make for an interesting if funny moment where you could explore her dynamics with various heroes and villains.
Ridiculous. It's like there was a logical thought and then you guys put way too much thought into these characters having sex. That's not worth a story
She a gal more interested in the chase than the reward.
I can see her as a gun for hire or in her case fly for hire. I think he'll fit more with flash's rogues gallery than batman's.
She's way happy to be a batman villain.
I always thought Roxy would have made a better Nightwing villian, with the CZcams's favorite villian & being a flirty redhead. The stories are there
Hell yeah
Nightwing does have a thing for red heads.
As the Kingpin started as a Spider-Man villain before becoming the main Daredevil BBEG, I'd move Roxie to either Booster Gold, Ted Kord era Blue Beetle or Wally West's Flash. Her thrill seeking approach to crime and flirtatious nature would fit in well with either of these heroes IMO.
I think it would make more sense to turn her into a nemesis/love interest role for Blue Devil, his Catwoman. Blue Devil is a Hollywood stuntman who got fused into his homemade animatronic devil suit built for a movie by an actual demon who hit him with a magical blast. Having the same job, they probably knew each other, and possibly even worked with each other.
I can see her being a Ted Kord Blue Beetle villain.
@@NoJusticeNoPeace Totally forgot about Blue Devil- good catch!
Why Ted Kord specifically?
@@toganium4175 I would think that his Beetle ship would make a fine prize for Roxie- that and the fact that I think their personalities might play off of each other, especially if Ted is written as he was in his team ups with Booster Gold.
Love the idea of her being a Green Lantern villain! She would fit in with those set of characters better, and GL could use more of a variety of villains imo. So yeah, I’m all for it!
Which Green lantern though
@@lonemotheomatshaba9640 Hal mainly I’d say, because of the Rocket/Airplane connection. But I’d also be interested in seeing her interact with Kyle or Jessica, as that could be interesting. I can just picture an interesting love triangle with Hal, Carol, and Roxy though.
Could be cool I remember in the animation series I found she was a better fit for Superman in that one episode than Batman. I like the character but she doesn’t fit in the Batman universe.
@@zeroxwarrior Yeah, Superman would make more sense than Batman to me too. Flying through the city on a rocket does just seem more up Supe’s alley. She could kidnap Jimmy or Lois and take them on a joyride through Metropolis to get Supe’s attention lol. I think she’d have more of a chance of being a long term GL villain just because the GL Corps don’t have quite the variety that Supes and Bats do (GL villains tend to mostly be alien despots and/or rival lantern corps. At least that’s how it seems sometimes), but I can think of some fun Superman stories to tell with her too.
@@lonemotheomatshaba9640 All of the human ones, but mostly Hal.
Any character can be made interesting by a good writer. Grant Morrison is notorious for taking second-rate, nearly-forgotten characters and building entire series and mythologies around them, like Animal Man and Doom Patrol. Hell, sie took a minor joke character from Doom Patrol, Flex Mentallo, and created an entire limited series around him to construct a deep analysis of comic books as the modernized archetypes of the gods. And the Ostrander run of the original Suicide Squad turned minor, totally inconsequential supervillains like Deadshot into cultural phenomena.
Tom Taylor is another writer who i feel is quite good at that.
Don't forget how many original villains Grant created for his Batman run: Prof. Pyg, Flamingo, Dr. Hurt, the Club of Villains, Leviathan, Dr. Daedalus, and the 99 Fiends. It's a shame Pyg is the only one that took off.
Also, James Gunn with Peacemaker, Polka Dot Man, Bloodsport, etc.
@@bluebrain7009 and starlord.
Mr freeze is the difininitive example
I find Roxy a fun character and won't mind seeing her some real development. I like your idea of matching her up with Green Lantern just because it would be fun to bring the Lanterns back down to Earth and just protect their sector instead of always going on crazy space operas which are fun, but don't to be always what's happening to them.
Idea: let's say Teen Lantern actually becomes an official GL and gets her own ring. That leaves the gauntlet abandoned and Roxy gets it and uses it as the ultimate thrill seeking device. She's not a villain, like she's not out to hurt anyone but her antics often puts her in the path of various GLs, sometimes with, sometimes against
Maybe have her be a member of the suicide squad. Make her the one that constantly jeopardizes the mission just so that she can have a rush.
She could be a Green Lantern.
@@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388 well green lantern candidate, but she could have rejected the ring or be rejected by it because either the green lanterns police force gig is not really to her style, with the rules and codes not being a good fit for her free spirited nature, or her more selfish impulses make her unworthy, since roxy would more than likely misuse the rings power in a heartbeat. she might even reject it because...its too safe. too much power. the risk just isn't there for her with the ring to give her the thrill and taste of danger she craves. which could make for an interesting dynamic with hal, a veteran who also at one point in his career did break the codes and did go very bad indeed. while he did reform, i imagine the second roxy ended up with the green ring, the guardians and hal get concerned about the possibility of her going bad like he once did. the difference is roxy was already one with villainous tendancies and also she has not the agressive scale of ambition or imagination that hal possessed when he went bad. roxy does no misuse the ring to try and rebuild her whole city, then go on a killing spree when she gets told no. she uses it how someone who has such low criminal ambitions might...stealing alien tech for her rocket, and robbing jewelry stores, eventually growing board with the ease the powers give her so she either goes bigger or starts actively taking very risky jobs that actually put her under serious risk. hal chasing her and trying to stop her then could become a mixture of trying to stop her and her crime spree and also save her before she ends up losing the proverbial game of chicken with herself and ends up in too deep.
You know an idea just popped in my head. She's basically DCU's "The Transporter". She'll transport anything for a good fee. She'll drive you a getaway car (or rocket), transport important items that certain heroes might want, to being your driver in escaping prison. That way she gets her rush and the thrills of finding various ways to escape or attain her goals.
This!!
How else do you get those unstable radioactive chemicals from point A to B?
That's a great idea ☺️
That would be cool!
Something like that was my thought as well. Rather than a stand-alone villain, she could work better as a "support villain/villain for hire", where other villains get her to help in their schemes.
She has a great pulp, Golden age feel. I'd like to see her up against some aging, experienced golden age hero like Sandman or Hour Man. They might feel revitalized, seeing a younger person who's still digging the retro aesthetic. Maybe she even fan-girls out over the hero a bit, since she clearly digs what the have going on. I think she would also pair well with Stargirl as a fellow "young person who's into retro stuff."
Jack Knight Starman
Roxy and Stargirl would make for a fun dynamic.
I feel like she could’ve had her own Jackass inspired show in dc except it’s more about stunts then pain.
Hear me out. Booster Gold villain. Both are flip sides of self indulgent, glory seekers. I think she could give him a good run for his money.
Does Roxy's rocket vibrate as it moves? If so, that explains all the sounds she makes when riding the rocket like it's a horse.
I'll always thought Roxy would have beeen perfect for The Batman 2004 show, i would reimagined her as this early 2000's extreme sports adrenaline junkie who only interested in the challenge so she decided to go againts every major character in Gotham to see if she can get away with it.
I'm surprised she never appeared in either the show or Tie In Comics.
If they needed more female villains then I wish they used Sugar and Spice from Batman Forever. There's a lot of ways to use them like Sugar being the crafty secretary and Spice being the tough gun moll.
The fanfics practically write themselves...In practice, it would probably go down the same road as Harley, with the two (fraternal twins, maybe?) gaining agency from Two-Face's abusive domination...
@@HandofOmega They could have him be an actual surprising good boss to them. Maybe they managed to win a permanent reprieve from any future coinflip punishment by giving him two flips each when first hired or something.
Yeah they could work really well, since not all rogues need to clash with Batfam yet clashing with other rogues/villains. If anything start up a mercenary company keep it grounded and overall legit.
I've always loved the DeeDees. And not _just_ because of the Rule 34 lesbian twincest.
WdCain I agree with you sugar and spice In Batman forever were intriguing characters and were underrated and forgotten about See those characters were perfect for 2 face cause yeah both sides He had the best of both worlds good and evil angel and demon lightside dark side ID sugar being maligbeing moonlight side the sweet one the angel of spice what's the demon Wild one And sugar being sensual romantic and spice Being wild rough sexual Just like the Ginger and Mary Anne from Gilligan island You had the Slut And the VirginGinger being the sexy one Marianne being the original 1 the angel 1 the innocent 1And Ginger being me sexual one being PermiscuousBut if you noticed on that show show how Gilligan treated Mary Ann and GingerBut if you noticed on that show show how Gilligan treated Mary Ann and GingerMary Ann he treated like like a partner a woman with respectAs an equal but Ginger he was frightened by because because she was so beautiful and he is a nerd like meBut he was awkward around them bothI'm debate who would Ginger or Marion end up withThe professor or GilliganGinger was attracted to Gilligan because because he didn't treat her like the sex object or H or a trophyHe Treated and behaved around her her like every nerd would treat her like a goddessKnowing he will never have her because of his ugliness but his insecurity is what attracted Ginger to himAnd with Maryann he treated more like a sister sister family he cared about her too much to be romanticSo ending the debate right here Marianne and the professor Ginger and GilliganHusbands and wives married by the captain skipper yes he is the only one on the islandWho has the legal authority the highest authority on the island to marry them hes the captain of a shipAnd all my seas and someone wanted to marry the captainWas the highest authority and that's how someone is married by the highest authority in the landOr on the sea the highest authority is the captainLet's happen throughout the entire history of humankindSo agree with you WDCain
Seeing Hal competing with a woman for a spot in the Green Lantern Corps would be awesome
i'd say hollow you know he's gonna win at least with death being a revolving door the heroes do lose at least temporarily in stories but hal's always gonna be the head lantern to them
How about Wonder Woman as someone she can go up against? But I agree Hal would be a great choice. And he’d totally sleep with her.
Wonder Woman is as strong as Superman, a better fighter than Batman (by Batman's own admission), can fly, is largely bulletproof, and is a speedster behind only Flash and Superman on the Justice League. Do you really think a flirtatious stuntwoman with slightly above-average athletic skills on a rocket bike is going to give Wonder Woman enough challenge to last beyond a single panel?
Maybe she could team up with Condiment King and Kite-Man.
I could see her as a criminal courier and opening a story for WW, but as a main villain she doesn't offer any risk to Diana.
This is what I was thinking. They could have a lesbian dynamic. A non-flying, 70s TV like Wonder Woman is the right power level and set for her.
Maybe Wonder Woman should have to build up to high power. Overpowered characters are boring. I think lack of reality is a big reason why DC characters struggle. Also, WW needs her secret identity back.
@@NoJusticeNoPeace See my above comment.
The idea that she might be under the illusion she's still playing in a movie is really cool!
I really love the idea of the penguin becoming a more upstanding citizen in society. I wish he would have reformed canonically. Maybe have other villains try to incorporate him in their schemes, for him to go to Batman and warn him ahead of time. I wish something like that would happen what do you think?
I think this is worth exploring.
Penguin reforming and becoming an upstanding citizen did technically happen, in the DCAU, but he went back to becoming a villain, because of Bunny Vreeland or some relative of hers
Some of the Penguin's best stories show off just how truly rotten to the core Oswald is. Remember that time he bought a slave girl so she could be his personal therapist, only to tire of her and return her to the market?
No, Oswald can never reform as a person... But I *really* like the idea of him reforming as a businessman. Make him a Lex Luthor style 'untouchable elite' that challenges Bruce via moves against Wayne Enterprises, in ways that can't be solved just by beating people up.
If you think about it, Penguin really has potential to be Batman's most dangerous foe.
I think this is a problem of making Batman the only hero with a big rogue gallery, writers think they can only make good villains if they're related to Batman, which in turns makes most of them forgettable when they could've been pretty popular otherwise if they were related to any other hero. Why make Deadshot a Batman villain when he fits way better with Green Arrow, being a marksman and a hire assassin. Why make Mad Hatter a Batman villain when he would fit better as a Wonder Woman or Black Canary villain, being an incel using mind control on women. They could take more than half of Batman villains and give them to other heroes
Deadshot's suicide squad association kinda removes him from being a batman villain.
Wonder-Woman already had Dr. Psycho, who has a similar thing going on already. (and has actual super powers, unlike Jervis).
Mad Hatter was created during the Silver Age for Batman since he needed villains with stupid gimmicks to meet the requirements of the comics code. Once that constraint was no longer needed, he evolved into a pretty interesting character, who is still somewhat a Batman villain (though he rarely gets out unless it's during someone else's Asylum break) but also a frequent Suicide Squad Alumni (and one of their more unexpectedly brutal and effective members).
Mike Rosoft@ yes and no, batman can't seem to leave them alone as he's tried to shut them down before.
A lot of other hero's villains are better known as Batman villains like Green Arrow's Clock King
@@plushiesdx Or Teen Titans' Vigilante and Deathstroke.
my instant reaction to the suggestion of Roxy as Hal's villain was to exclaim YES outloud, so I agree wiht this idea way too much clearly XD
Yes have her be a green lantern villain. I think they need some basic villain types in their rogues gallery and get away from the emotional spectrum for a while.
I like Roxy Rocket. She reminds me of Ricochet Rita from Longshot who later was transformed into Spiral by Mojo. In the "mainstream" DC Comics Universe she could be connected to the Bulleteers from the old Superman animated cartoon shorts. They were a gang that had a rocket themed motif and they were kind of like the prototype of Roxy Rocket's costumed identity. I could see them either teaming-up or being sort of rivals.
Grant Morrison updated Bulleteer for his Seven Soldiers of Victory miniseries.
Roxxi suffers from a lack of development as a character. She is the sum total of Dini's worst habits with writing women, without anything to help her stand on her own. If someone could take her and flesh her out more, maybe we could get something interesting.
As for heroes....Hal the person is a good choice, but Hal the Green Lantern may be WAY too powerful for her. Green Arrow however would find her a challenge. Blue Beetle is young enough to be confused and led by her wiles. Stargirl might be a fun fit, a young hero dealing with a older yet less inhibited woman who bawks the very rules she has to follow.
Nightwing would actually be a good opponent for her as well. Nightwing is a bit of a daredevil and risk taker. Plus he flirts back so he would be an interesting pairing. And you can have her become obsessed with his daredevil ways and attitude as she would look at him as a kindred spirit. And have her set up dangerous stunts that get more dangerous to get his attention. She has potential to be kind of his version of Catwoman in a way.
I feel like if they wanted to keep her as a batman villain, they could play more into her stunts thing, make her do simpler crimes, like stealing jewels and such, but if you let her free doing it for too long, she kinda loses control and start doing more dangerous stunts, making her a threat not only to other people, but herself
I could imagine a page of a batman comic where batman is taking her to the hospital after she crashed her rocket against a building or something, and you see the doctor react as if it was something common and her body full of scars
I thank she would be a good flash villain but Instead of being a stunt woman she is a speed demon and all about going fast no way more than 50 likes
I like it but the only issue I see is that flash is just on another plane of existence compared to a character like Roxy. For her to be any kind of threat she'd have to have super speed. But most flash villains have super speed and that's just gets boring after a while.
@@megan_alnico yeah I can see that
@@megan_alnico Flash is a lame character.
@@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388 what do you mean by that
I think you got it right earlier, Roxy is meant to be a Flash villain. Her aesthetic would work well with the rest of the rogues gallery, her personality would be fun to bounce off some of the younger Flashes, and (I don't know if this is true or not but could still be cool) she could see the Flashes as her ultimate challenge in a way and unlike the other villains could try to directly compete with their speed by stealing faster tech. (Again don't know if this is true or not) a Catwoman type of relationship would also maybe work
I would love to see her as a full on retrofuturistic character - like Sky Captain meets Buck Rogers - who fights Superman and fashions weapons based on Superman's weaknesses like red sunlight lasers and force fields with Kryptonite bombs and rockets and magic artifacts she collected like Indiana Jones. Batman and Green Lantern have had their stalkers already. But Superman only had Maxima, who sucked.
Superman had a Silver Age villain like that called Terra Man, a cowboy with retrofuturistic alien weapons tailored specifically to Superman's weaknesses.
@@NoJusticeNoPeace He was also in Post Crisis, too. But he was Western themed.
@@DCMarvelMultiverse Advanced "cowboy" weapons count as retrofuturism.
@@NoJusticeNoPeace Anachronistic, actually. Retrofuturism is when you use the future aesthetic of a bygone era. Anachronistic means two time periods, regardless of tense, is mashed up or switched. If I make a modern story with a 70s scifi aesthetic, that is RF. If I make take a 19th century gun and make it blast a laser, that is an anachronism because laser guns are not a 19th century aesthetic and making modern weapons look like they could be old weapon with, on first appearance, the same old function, is anachronism.
@@DCMarvelMultiverse It's not retrofuturism from the perspective of the people who made Terra Man, but it's retrofuturism from _ours_ 40 years later. The "advanced technology" as conceived by the Silver Age writers wasn't intended to be retrofuturist, it's _become_ so from ours. You see what I mean?
It is interesting how the majority of Batman's most iconic foes were made so long ago with just a few reaching those levels since. Despite many from when I was a kid having had potential. Even Spider-Man's original rogues have gained more iconic additions over the decades than his, and that's not many. Makes me wonder, is about the characters "always" being there for each generation or was there just some magic in the hands of those long gone creators that just doesn't exist anymore?
There are a limited number of villain types who can be more than just another job, and those slots were filled long ago.
Good question, this should be a CZcams video. Can new writers/characters overcome those slots that were filled long ago or is there more roles to be filled?
I think it's because there's just nothing new a villain could do to make Batman solve a problem in a new way. Since "because I'm Batman" seems to be enough for any problem.
DC management are in love with the ones they have?
You have to keep in mind that Batman's original rogues gallery was filled mostly with joke characters until recently, most of them have become completely different characters by the '80s: Joker, Mr Freeze, Riddler and Penguin are the best examples. At that same time you had a few new characters that have now become just as prominent as the original cast like Bane and Ra's but Spider-Man doesn't really have that.
Spider-Man has a lot more new characters and ones that stick out more but they don't tend to stay around or become as prominent. After the Clone Saga, his most prominent rogues are still the same ones he had in the '60s. The biggest villains he had from the '80s to early 2000s would probably have to be Hobgoblin, Venom, Carnage and Morlun. All of which weren't doing too well in the early 2000s. Hobgoblin became second rate after the Macendale era, Venom had the Lethal Protector arc but the writers weren't too sure what to do with him and bonded him with random people, Carnage would've been known mostly from Maximum Carnage and wouldn't have a big event until 2015 and Morlun wasn't exactly seen as an interesting villain so much as something that got the plot moving and added magic to Spider-Man. In the early 2000s, everyone except for maybe Venom would've been considered relatively obscure. In that time, the original rogues gallery had been revived and most of the new characters, which hadn't really done well outside of their own events, were sidelined.
Technically speaking, most of Batman's rogues gallery haven't been around before the '80s whereas most of Spider-Man's tends to be the same exact people he originally fought. The fact DC has rebooted also means that the characters and writers have a fresh start on established characters whereas Marvel writers can play it safe and work with a character that has been around since the '60s who's largely unchanged.
I like the Jessica Cruz suggestion. Far more than the Hal Jordan one if only because Hal’s character history has “women issues” and this could easily fall into an already deep stereotypical groove.
Flash would be nice as well, but the Wally West version, not the Barry Allen one, mainly because the humor inherent in Wally would probably work better with Roxy’s premise.
There’s also the Red Rockets (from JLI), Blue Beetle Ted Kord (who’d try to upgrade the Bug to keep up with Roxy), Fire, Enemy Ace (if you don’t mind a little time traveling), and maybe a Looney Tunes crossover with the Road Runner. (Where do you think that rocket came from?)
I love the Looney Tunes idea
Never heard of Roxy. But, listening to you it makes a whole lot of sense to match her with Hal Jordan. Just a fling he has. "Enemies with benefits" sounds like a great name for an episode
"They flirt with the concept a couple of times, but they don't go all in." I see Roxy is rubbing off on Sasha...
I think something you could do to spice up her dynamic would be giving her a "villainous influencer" angle. Like it's already shown that her daredevil antics are a danger to the people around her, but convincing loved ones to do those same stunts and it spreading for social media clout would be a nightmare to calm down. So I could see her working as an antagonist for a younger superhero/team like the Teen Titans or Super Sons.
Sounds like she would be a perfect fit in DC Super Hero Girls.
Sounds like something Batgirl would deal with in Harley Quinn.
5:02 She'll be hearing from DB Cooper's lawyers... As soon as they can find their client!
A Green Lantern would've never come to mind as a possible pairing in my mind, but after hearing ya state your case, I gotta admit the genius in it. Especially for Jessica Cruz. The strong thematic through line would go far in building some really interesting stories born purely from this dynamic of ideological opposites. I love it
Pairing Roxy with Livewire might be an interesting story with Livewire recording Roxy's antics for views on a fictional streaming platform. Livewire goads Roxy into doing more and more dangerous heists while also intervening when a hero shoes up to interfere (such as the Flash or Green Lantern). Livewire escalates things with each stream, getting civilians caught int he crossfire and Roxy is forced to decide whether the casualties are worth it. I think it would be a cool one off for the two of them.
Like DC Super Hero Girls, I enjoy Justice League Action a lot. Good to know she shows up in there
Now I really want to see her against a GL, and Jessica especially! But I also think pitting her (as a lighthearted villain who goes in for adventure) against one of the teen titans/young justice teams would be fun. (Just… without flirting with teenagers, please.)
eh depending on whose on the team most of them probably arent much younger than i imagine roxy to be
@@donb7519 I mean, sure. The ”teen” titans are often much older. And by then they don’t go under the ”don’t flirt with teens” thing. (It can still get uncomfortable for other reasons, but at least everyone involved is an adult.)
11:41 The only thing that stood out to me in that category was how the Black and White story felt like the Batman from the White Knight saga before all of the drama; must've been Murphy's art.
Roxy and Hal is something I never knew I wanted till you mentioned it and the "enemies with benefits" line lol.
After Roxy and Livewire I have my fingers crossed for Volcana.
I think Roxy is in a good/bad place right now, let me elaborate. I feel like a character like shouldn't be a near-constant, like Cat-woman, her showing up here, there and everywhere I feel really works for her character, being a thrill-seeker you don't know where or when she'll show up, but she does she will always be loud and trying to take all the attention as she seeks higher levels of danger.
That said I do agree that having her tied to batman is a big mistake and the near-constant sexual jokes would get a little grating, but I think making her a 'cosmic' villain makes a lot more sense, but also, creates a problem. As it does mean there are few characters she can interact with, the Green Lantern core is one, Super Man and Co is another, Lobo maybe baby? But I don't really see her like racing gods and the such.
As for her backstory, you could have that she was a stunt woman who got fired after tampering with her own stunts to increase the danger, feeling like it was never enough of a thrill for her, so after getting fired, she kept amping up the danger which leads to super heroes getting involved and having to serve jail time when she was eventually approached by a company to send a human into space on an experimental rocket. The rocket launches her into a worm hole and she's never seen again, so the company asks a Lantern to go looking for her, when you basically find out she's become a villain in a space city, because she believes the rules don't apply to her as she is an unknown to this world.
Just a general idea, but I feel like it sticks to her character, as for the 'fear' aspected, rather than being scared of stunts, maybe she 'flying away' from something, something she doesn't want to come to terms with so she's literally trying to out run it, her own mortality perhaps?
Love the Hal Jordan idea! When you suggested other heroes for her to fight, my first thought, while still bat-adjacent, was Nightwing. I think with Dick's performative style and circus background, there's enough there for Roxy to maybe have a better dynamic. Plus, Dick doesn't really have a sort of flirty female villain in his rogues gallery (unless we count Tarantula, which we ABSOLUTELY DO NOT).
Also nightwing doesn't have a big plane to fly around in so she would give him more of a challenge
To me, Roxy comes across as a morally gray anti-hero rather than a villain. Which is great and I like your Green Lantern idea.
I think she could work really well as a Wally West Flash rogue. She already kind of fits the rogue profile and flirting between her and Wally would be interesting since Wally is a family man. Nothing heavy just kind of fun interaction between them.
If you really want her to go full villainess she could go through an anti-redemption (corruption?) arc where she gets used in the Suicide Squad and the constant threat of head explosions & near death experiences pushes her addiction to thrill and danger to such extremes she'll start helping the kind of big bads that want to wipe out all of everything as the big crisis events are the biggest thrills (ooh, then you could do meta commentary on DC's addiction to bigger events).
I always thought she would pair well with booster gold. He's seeking fame, and fame wasn't ennough for her dynamic would work well "what will booster need when fame isnt enough?"
Personally, I think that she is the perfect villain/foil for a period appropriate Justice Society. She would work with any of those characters. She is the perfect “science” character that would work in a JSA period piece. The rocket seems oddly dated in the 21st century but would work well in a story set in the 30s-40s.
The main problem with green lantern is she is way too weak for them. Otherwise she would be perfect.
Roxy feels like one of those obscure villains that would get their head blown off in a Suicide Squad movie
Oooh green lanterns could really work well with her
My favorite female villains that Timm and Dini did were Baby Doll and Calendar Girl. There was some serious commentary about the youth/appearance obsessed media in both those characters.
I love the idea of her being a green lanter villain or a flash villain. i think her interactions with jordan, cruz or rayner could be really fun but so could be her interacting with flash's rogues gallery.
Will we get a Space Cabbie retrospective? He sounds interesting.
I love obscure DC characters. Also, at some point, I need to get started on JL Action, seems really cool.
It's a fun series, not quite the deepest but good enough
I'd find it fun if she became a Flash villain. Something about that idea really clicks with me.
I kinda like Roxy going up against Batman, just because he has so many psychologically tortured and mentally ill villains, it’s nice to see him fight someone who’s just a regular thrill seeker, and you can always play with the dynamic of her and Batman being almost addicted to their causes, her looking for thrills and him fighting crime, if you want a more personal connection, but it’s just nice to have a different kind of villains for Batman to fight every once in a while
Although I do really like your Hal Jordan and Jessica Cruz ideas, I’d be pretty down for that. I also think Green Arrow could work too, both can be very flirtatious and sassy, and it would be cool to see them have a competitive sassy dynamic, maybe Black Canary gets a little jealous and Oliver feels like he’s in hot water in a 40s romcom kind of way, it could be a lot of fun
Basically I really like Roxy rocket, I think she’s very underrated so the more or we can get her the better I say, but I totally agree with you Sasha, I want her to be bad.
Let's see her up against Wonder Woman. I'd love to see a race between Roxy Rocket and Wonder Woman's invisible jet.
Roxy Rocket is really a Risky reckless rascal as round of Russian roulette with rubber round and random rockets.
We gotta introduce you to Ricochet Rita!
@@HandofOmega Who and why now?
@@WarmLillie RR was a seldom seen Marvel character, a stuntwoman who was a supporting character in the Longshot limited series. Unlike Roxy, she was a good guy...at least, at first...
My tongue was tied from reading this and I didn't even read it aloud.
She actually works great as an earthbound non luthor villian for Superman.
There is another villain that's kinda underrated that I think that you should talk about and that is Volcana, who started in Superman TAS
I love learning of obscure/silly comic characters. I agree that Roxy would likely work better with other heroes. I think Wally or Space Cabey could be the best, but maybe she could be a villain who interacts with multiple heroes
Hm...Batman's Rogues' Gallery vs. Spider-Man's?
Roxy being a green lantern villian is actually brilliant holy shit, especially love the idea of linking her w Hal since they both have the pilot angle as a corner stone of their characterization, I was originally thinking it’d be interesting to pit her against mr miracle to try and play up the acting/stage performance that goes into stunt work and giving them a bit of a rivalry. Like it’d be cool to have their motivations clash with Scott being someone who escapes danger as a result of his traumatic upbringing and Roxy being this selfish thrill seeker who sees the danger she puts herself and others in as a ride for her amusement. You could even just have them have a mutual respect for each other as performers but I do love the idea of Scott being petty as fuck towards his competition like when he called Zatana a hack in justice league action
I really like the idea of Roxy being a Flash villain, since it would be a unique way to have someone to match his speed without just another speedster. Maybe she managed to hook her rocket's fuel line into the speed force somehow?
Thanks now I have an intense need to see a Flash comic with her as the featured villain, though I wonder how different it would be depending on which Flash it is (how it would work if it's Barry Allen vs. Roxy Rocket or if it's Wally West vs. Roxy Rocket).
You’d think they’d use the character in a cat-woman run. Probably serving as the get away driver in heist story. Maybe as career rival. Maybe an ally - i think her risk taking attitude vintage and pulp aesthetic would play well against selina’s more focused mature headspace.
Getaway driver Roxy forever!
@@tomorrow4eva they could maybe do the baby driver idea if her having bad hearing because of a stunt related injury.
Failed femme fatale? Impossible
Hey great job as usual, maybe she can become a love interest for Captain Comet or Space Ranger, lol. How about a story on Batman’s Bronze Age Love interest, Silver St. Cloud.?? And just a thought, are the original Batwoman and Bat-Girl from Earth 1 or Earth 2. ? I say Earth 2.
The amount of innuendo in the animated episode was astounding.
It was a good case of not that you’d want every episode to be like that -
But it was fun and memorable as one episode of something different.
Batman - As he’s so law and order - has always been the funnest hero to try to seduce .
Cat woman, Poison Ivy , Talia and now Roxy.
Not that she’s going to become a Harley Quinn (I honestly didn’t know HQ was going to become a HQ),
But she is a fun villain to have appear once in awhile. 🙂✌️
Ahhhh Roxy. Love AND Rockets! Says 1980’s me.
Ya know, Capt. Boomerang once launched Flash on a giant boomerang. Roxy would’ve thought it was lame.
She could probably work as a villain to multiple heroes with the joke being that "she gets around", she just seems like such a petty nuisance cause she's not Joker evil. i feel like the biggest problem with her is that she's too one note and her design is kind of boring. Harley Quinn was a success because she had a bomb ass design, she was a hench-woman which wasn't really a thing to my knowledge and she played well off of a pre-established character like The Joker to boost her up in the spotlight. Roxy lacks all of that.
I think Harley Quinn was at least partially based on Joker's Daughter from the comics, at least conceptually.
I disagree, Roxy has a pretty cool design and some neat iconography too (at the very least, I prefer her to Harley Quinn).
I love how you're always thinkin' of Hal. I can see him and Roxy having an encounter, (no, not that kind) where the story uses Roxy to show how Hal might seem reckless to some, and despite being a thrill-seeker at heart, he actually never loses sight of his responsibilities or what he's fighting for when it comes time to doing his duty as GL.
I hadn't thought about it, but I think you may be right, there is a lack of (good) female villains. And please, just because a hero is male and their opponent is female, it doesn't have to have a romantic sub-plot.
As always, thank you so very much for the video.
Can you do a video on
Kiteman
Calnder man
Gaggy joker first sidekick
Killer moth
Condiment king
Superbatman
Microwave man
Worst superman villans
Dr death
Please
Green Lantern is a great choice, I was thinking the same thing actually. I also think she could be great in some kind of super villain grouping. Like a stand alone series similar to the Harley Quinn Power Girl series. Maybe a heist that goes wrong or ends up getting her noticed by some obscure secret society and along the way she meets up with some other character that reluctant helps her. I'm think a buddy cop James bond type action adventure where everyone is after some kind of macguffin. Could be a lot of fun.
along those line how you think she would do as part of the sucide squad particular with her need to seek thrill.
@@Marveryn I don't really picture her as a violent criminal as much as a thief with a gimmick. However I could see her and Captain Boomerang having a fun dynamic. I suppose it depends mostly on that roster. What did you have in mind?
Finding out about Roxy Rocket is giving me a lot of ideas.
I definitely want to see her become a rogue for various heroes, especially lesser-known ones.
“Enemies With Benefits” would be a comic series I’d definitely be interested in
🤔 I'd give her to Nightwing or Supergirl myself. Dick would TOTALLY flirt back relentlessly 😂. This would keep her in the grounded section of the DCU, plus with his background as an acrobat and hers as a stunt woman it could be similarly fitting. As far as supergirl? Have her keep pushing the limit knowing that she'll get bailed out by Supergirl, or you could even give her to Shazam, same thing... Only Billy wouldn't know how to handle the flirty nature. 😂 Either way if she goes against someone with super powers have her keep pushing the edge. Push that adrenaline junkie mentally to extremes. She knows she will always be saved... No matter how in danger she is or puts other ppl.
Lillie: “I mean like the aviator / motorcycle look, what can I say? I loves a joyride.” XD
“I rode on more dangerous ride and a history. I’m calling her up for the premium experience.”
*Lillie wear a Jessica green latern ring*
“It’s good to a bit of have protection and back up plans too.”
----------------------
I can see her as Green Lantern villain and teaming up with other. With history of stealing jewelry and being fearless I could see her stealing a ring to explore universe while reckless destroying them breaking the green lantern oath
Even being Batman mechanic explains why batmoblie are super charged.
Part of the reason why Roxy was created was because Bruce Timm and Paul Dini found out that due to the way their contract worked, they didn't get any residuals for characters they created for Batman: TAS. So even though Harley Quinn became super popular, they don't get any money from merchandise or shows/movies Harley appeared in.
But their contract with DC Comics allowed them to get residuals from characters they created for the comics. So they decided to create characters for the comics before putting them in the shows so that they'd get paid if the character became super popular like Harley and gets bunch of merchandise and used in other shows/movies.
I think her thrills making her feel something could have worked.I also think if they went with the idea that she can only really feel something as her thrills become more reckless could've been a good idea.I think exploring why she likes thrills could.have helped her character more
Nice alliteration
Counter point, Roxy Rocket "redemption" is pretty much self written. She isn't really evil as a concept, and often isn't even shown doing something even technically criminal (like essentially trolling Batman). Not a great candidate for villain who stays a villain, on account of already barely being one.
I see your point about having her paired as a villain or at least antagonistic with Hal but, counter point to that too, it involves thinking about the existence and currently living status of Hal Jordan. Not pleasant, pass. Though having her becoming one of the ring bearers could lead something really interesting. The major problem imo is finding writers who could properly write some with her creative showpersonship and having a tool that creates anything you can imagine. She could work as a GL, because of the will power to overcoming fear, but i think also as a yellow one, and imo that is the closest she can be to a permanent villain status (other than she probably would just be an antagonist yellow lantern). With her acting and stunts, be it the traditional type or the later "live action" ones, she can create gut wrenching fear in an audience. Heck, in a way you can even say she made Batman fear (the lamer sense), as in fear that the batmobile was trashed. Now what kind of terrifying fearful stunts she couldn't cause with that yellow baby. But again, finding a writer who could actually write that well in all the levels it would have to work for it to be really good, now that is the trick.
I'm pretty sure flying around on a rocket at building level without a permit breaks some kind of air traffic law.
@@ccggenius In DC, hard to tell actually. They've green lanterns, Batmen, Blue Beetles, Booster Golds, etc., all flying with gadgets that are very clearly unlicensed in anyway. Someone having a joy flight in this universe might as well be either legal or "we don't care bout those laws anymore" legal-ish.
I'm definitely biased in this regard, but I would want to give her superpowers: luck, reflexes, endurance, and some kind of flight ability fueled by the heights of her thrill-seeking. Like Longshot + Cannonball, sorta.
Of course, she'd have to have the full gamut of stunt performer skills--acrobatics, fighting, vehicles, and, really ALL of it!
Maybe she'd be an online personality with some thrilling but inconsistently-uploaded content. She'd be dependent on those *big* views from harrowing, headline-catching feats, get tangled in legal troubles, get mixed but intense responses from the court of public opinions, then have to issue some sort of "apology," go quiet for a while... then start the cycle all over.
She has strong chaotic neutral potential. I don't think she should be goof or evil, she should just go along with what seems the most fun at the the time
I actually love Roxy Rocket 🚀 she's just fun, pure, athletic, super bold and she's in love with Batman so that will soooooo get interesting 👍
First time hearing about her but she seems cool
I forget where I heard it, but I’m pretty sure I remember an interview where Paul dini or Bruce timm talked about how they made Roxy in response to Harley because while Harley was becoming really popular, they signed away all rights to her, where with Roxy they’d get some royalties. I think it might have been a Kevin smith podcast. Also I think she’d work well as a flash villain, because they’re both fast, but she’s got the verticality which would make it hard for flash to catch her, also you could do some stuff with how flash realizes he needs to take it slow every once in a while or something, anyways great vid!
I think more than Roxy's fearlessness the reason she'd fit really well with Hal is they'd play off of each other really well. Hal is kinda the classic hotshot fighter pilot archetype who doesn't like listening to orders, as such I can see him bouncing really well off a flirtatious daredevil thief.
Bruce, Brucie, Mr. Timm. I'm beggin ya, you gotta stop with the Bruce X Babs thing, for god's sake.
You are literally the only person in history to have ever liked it and it's CREEPIN me out.
Totally unrelated but this is a cool villainess, I love the obscure ones, it's like a little project to chart where they've been and what they've been doing through guest appearances and cameos.
I've said this before but since RoxyXHal was brought up, am I the only one who wouldnt mind if DC started experimenting with their character pairings? Like idk if I am the only one but their more standard ships (Batman and Catwoman, Sups and Lois) are starting to feel repetitive to me. So I think it would be interesting if they tried to experiment with some weird ships in some short stories atleast(lets say Superman and Livewire, Vixen and Cheetah or Batman and Queen Bee). I mean Poison Ivyx Kyte Man and Killer Croc x Orca have proven that those relationships are very endearing to watch even when they dont last
the problem is supes and lois and selena and bruce kinda just work perfectly also they do try to mess with them quite a bit recently and people hate it
I was wanting to hear more about how she'd fit into Flash's rogues gallery.
I like you’re idea for Roxy in Green Lantern, her look also goes well with space as well and I dig the idea of Roxy’s adrenaline junkie being a dark reflection of the green Lanterns way of overcoming fear.
But I also agree that she’s so thematic that she fit better with the flash, and it also fit with her live fast and wild personality.