The Argument is OVER! 💩9mm Does NOT and CANNOT Rival 💣.357 Magnum! (😔Even with 9mm +P+😪)
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2021
- Buffalo Bore 124 gr 9mm+P+ VS Buffalo Bore 125 gr .357 Magnum! I hear quite a bit that "9mm rivals .357 Magnum". I hear it usually from new gun owners, from gun store employees or in general people who do not like revolvers and like to add falsehoods to their choice of caliber to feel better about their choice. The 9mm is a good cartridge, but it does not rival a .357 Magnum when both are loaded equally well. Today I am testing the ammo I mentioned in 10% Clear Ballistics with and without 1/4" MDF, as well as my Jug-or-Not box test, a watermelon test and a 25 yard accuracy test! Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
- Sport
I have gotten a lot of the same type of comment: "I never heard anyone say that the 9mm rivals the .357 Magnum, you must be making this argument up to get views". My response to this type of comment is - I don't know other people's experiences or social circles, but as a youtuber I have gotten basically this same comment about 1,000 times over the past 3 years: "OMG, .357 Mag only has 6 rounds, with my 9mm I have 18 and a good 9mm+P+ is more powerful than .357 Mag so the choice is obvious, the revolver is antiquated!".
So, as dumb as those type of comments are, I have gotten them like I said, about 1,000 times and it has been so incredibly annoying that I decided to make this video.
definitely clickbait title. You're one of the worst gun channels on YT. Baloney vs solid pork, that's a great analogy for you vs PH.
Just a quick thought... Have you thought about color coding the water jug caps (rainbow-wise) from blue to red in order to illustrate any possible overpenetration (or basic penetration levels in general)?
If the 6 shots didn’t work A whack to the head from the 686’s barrel would 😣
@@Lateralus1007 Borris goes for reliability
In military arms channel they did test of short barrel 357 and 9mm velocity and in result the both rounds had similar power, but 357 had much more recoil and flames. In the conclusion 9mm is best for for 3" and shorter barrels, while 357 for 4" and longer barrels.
This argument has been over since Paul Harrell put a full size 9mm against a snub nose 357 Mag and the 2 1/4 snub nose still had greater energy then the full size 9mm.
Gun Sam ans Paul Herrell! Great channels! You have good taste my friend!
Higher energy .357 magnum is better IF:
1. If the .357 bullet is designed to exploit the greater energy to do more tissue damage, and
2. If you think the tissue damage level of 9mm is inadequate, and
3. If you think the tissue damage level of .357 is adequate.
If both are inadequate, there is no difference, but the advantage might go to the pistol that holds more rounds. If both are adequate, there is no difference.
@@DonMeaker You are absolutely incorrect. You need to just go check some simple physics or watch the Paul Harrell video, he did it for you.
Best case for a 9mm is a full size pistol using some of the best high-end hyper ammo, vs. A 357 snubbie using run of the mill target ammo.
Anything with similar ammo and/or barrel lengths isn't even close.
As for number of rounds, you can carry a 7- or 8- round 357. In real life civilian defensive shootings, best studies show average number of shots < 3, median # of shots = 1, and reloads in about 0.6% of the events.
The industry can push "The One Round To Rule Them All," but a 9 cannot compare to power or flexibility of a 357.
Having said that, a .22 is perfectly adequate in probably 80-90% of defensive situations.
Can you link that video?
@@vincentashley2185 czcams.com/video/CD2t_qG9dls/video.html
Here you go :)
Let's be honest; the only ones who ever advanced the theory that a 9x19mm could rival a .357 Mag. on even a remotely fair comparative basis were the man-bunned Glock 19 fanboys who just couldn't deal with the fact that their ballistic Tupperware was thoroughly and completely outclassed by some aging boomer's archaic wheelgun...
@@thepatriotsrage661 I have a Glock 32c and a Sig 239 in 357Sig - 40cal. The 357 Sig is no joke, but it doesn't rival my S&W 4 inch 357 Magnum.
@@thepatriotsrage661 I did that exactly ONCE, about 25 years ago. Have not found any good excuse to repeat the experience... LOL
For a long time, the traditional thinking behind semi-auto cartridges' lower power (relative to revolvers) is because some fool thinks that a semi-auto barrel can't be made to withstand the pressures of magnums. Desert Eagle, despite their copious flaws, proved this wrong to a point. If it can be imagined, it can be made.
I have heard far too many police officers say 357 is good But you only have 5 to 8 shots max and that's why they carry a 9 Mil Or a 40 cal Or whatever the individual officer wants to carry You just get more rounds in a magazine than you do in a cylinder and when it comes to stopping a threat you want to make sure you can stop that threat no matter the shop placement do to stress and other things
I love both calibers and own 3 Glock 19’s and 6 357 magnum revolvers of all barrel lengths, they both fill specific roles in my rotation! That being said .357 magnum has no equal IMHO ! Just enough power yet it is still controllable
357 always beat the 9mm... That being said, I personally carry 9mm. I still want higher capacity and faster followup shots. Kimber k6 has the smoothest trigger of any revolver out of the box.. 357 is a beast of a round. I don't want to be on the receiving end of either round.
Great comment - I am a fan of Kimber myself, but S&W 686 is just as good if not better. Yup, its bulkier, but trigger and accuracy are on par! Give the Kimber the edge on sights and concealment. 👍
@@af7119 I also own a Ruger Redhawk 8 shot with the 8 shot floopy clips and speed loaders way too bulky for ccw, my 2 3/4 barrel almost as big as my 4" ruger security 6, but it's great night stand piece, luckily during freedom week, I purchased high cap mags for my 9mm and .40, so 16 for 9mm and 13 for .40, followup shots to effectively stop the threat is my priority. I too live in commufornia, again luckily in Ventura County which issued the most ccw per capita in California. 357 has way more power, 9mm way more capacity, way faster followup shots on target. Again I wouldn't want to be hit by either..😆 🤣
And then the Chiappa Rhino came along and challenged the follow up shot muzzle flip issue. Bottom line is train with what you got, train hard and be proficient. I’m confident with all my handguns. But to throw a monkey wrench in the comments section my EDC is a 45acp. Sometimes I’ll carry 38super since it’s on the same 1911 platform that I’ve spent the most time training with(over 27 yrs).
This is a great comment. The whole point should be about overall usability and effectiveness. One doesn't need to falsify anything or make exaggerated claims about anything. one can say "yeah it may not be quite as powerful than a .357, BUT I get more capacity and less recoil, which means faster follow-up shots and maybe greater accuracy in a hurry. No argument that the auto provides a faster reload. Some point out the lower noise level compared to any magnum. For any of these or any other reasons one may prefer a 9mm and there is no reason to have to justify or excuse that choice. 9x19 is the most popular caliber in LE and SD roles and they are served well by it. It doesn't have to be compared to anything. Use it, carry it, shoot it, and love it. BTW, if you prefer a revolver the 9x19 sucks as a revolver cartridge so a .38 Spl.+P or .357 mag. is probably going to be your best option, or most comparable anyway. Again, just use it and be happy knowing it's a great choice.
"That being said, I personally carry 9mm. I still want higher capacity and faster followup shots" REALLY? Try the .40 (Much More Powerful) and try PRACTICING!!! Range time = Proficiency!!
I'm just here for the 9 mm fanboy "sofa king" comments. 😁🤣
Another great video. I missed that "jug-r-not" box, thanks.
Thanks for watching!
I have a couple 9mm now . I'm 40yrs old.
My first gun was a S&W 357 snubnose, And I loved it . I'm gonna get another 357 but this time probably a chiappa rhino this time . And nope there's no comparison between the two rounds lol 😂
@@JR-ld1et I have a 5in rhino and absolutely love it, but fair warning they (or at least mine) don't handle hot loads very well and personal maintenance due to their design is more of a bugger than a traditional wheel gun. Still love using it to outshoot my buddies with their Glock 19's lol
Wait... since when has any argument - especially on the internet - ever been settled by logic, rational thought, and evidence? lol
😁💯👌
@James Evans The master has spoken!
It's good to be the king.
@James Evans - Uh huh... sure it is. lmao
.357 magnum is definitely more powerful than the 9mm. I own both and there is no doubt that the 357 is more powerful.
God bless America long live the Republic
Same here. I own both and shooting both you can tell easily which one is more potent.
13:45 😂🤣😂🤣😂 Dude! I laughed my ass off as you turned with bologna on your shoulder! And that… is why the Jug-or-not box rules!
Believe it or not I actually saw it with one eye, and made a slight adjustment to my normal arm lift. Was funny to see in slow motion.
@@GunSam I too miss the box but still fun vids
Yeah, us old timers figured this out back in the 1980's. Are they still arguing about it 40 years later?
Just the millenials that grew up shooting plastic and thing the video games are effective training
@@biggunshandguns3687 More like Gen Z aka Zoomers
Dave Howard.... us actual old timers settled this in the 1960s.
Nobody argued it, this guy's delusional and if he wanted to make a good comparison video he would do 357magnum vs a comparable caliber for autos such as, oh, idk, 357sig?
@@beargillium2369 The bullet designed to copy the 357 mag in performance. Yes, it's true imitation is the greatest compliment.
I'm happy you brought back the jugs, they give you a visual measure of impact force.
At the range we have steel at 25 yards It doesn’t take a genius to see that when shooters hit the swingers with .357 it smacks them substantially harder than 9mm does. There’s just no contest.
Sometimes there are things that are timeless and are still the measure against which all others must be measured. 357 magnum and 44 magnum are two of those calibers that fit that criteria.
I plan more with .44 Mag for sure. Especially if I have my way and acquire the S&W model 610 I been wanting. Will be fun to compare 10mm and .40 from a revolver to other stuff.
@@GunSam I hear they are tack drivers
@@GunSam I really hope you are able to acquire one. It should make some really good entertaining vids. If I could only talk you into buying a 625 45acp revolver first to compare to the semi and 2nd so you can really push the acp and see it full capabilities. I know I know but I can dream
@@GunSam I've been out of the loop for a while; did you get the 610 and if not is there a procedure to loan one that I have to you? (Also have a Charter Arms snubbie in .45ACP I'd loan if interested.)
@@GunSam Oh! That would be great! I'm late to the party here. I'll sub and check your channel. Pretty sure my next purchase is going to be a Tanfoglio 10 mm. Any and all comparisons are welcomed. :)
As a smaller, older female I had to switch to 9mm for accurate follow up shots. My first love is a double action revolver, the .357, .44, .41 magnums being my favorites in the past. Now I will stick to .38sp, .44sp......no regrets, I had a great run playing with the big bores in my prime and gladly leave the hand cannons to my younger friends. The truth is, if you train well, stay alert and out of risky situations, a 9mm will do the trick. Against humans anyway. I do still take my .44mag if I go into bear country. 9mm useless in that situation. Stay safe.
@peggynulsen1365
Peggy, the .357 Magnum IS a 9mm (projectile diameters are the same), so your statement that the “9mm is useless” in bear country needs some qualification.
The Buffalo Bore 125-grain full metal jacket flat nose as fired from a 4.76-inch barrel going 1300 feet per second is quite formidable as a woods load.
Moreover, a 147-grain 9 x 23 mm
going at 1300 fps is even more capable.
Additionally, as I previously stated, .357 (inch) is the English unit of measure equivalent of a metric unit of measure of 9 millimetre. A 180-grain .357 projectile loaded so that it travels from the muzzle of a 4-inch barrel at 1500 fps is IN .44 magnum energy specification should your wish to have that level of power FROM a .357 handgun instead of actually using a .44 magnum handgun/cartridge combination.
@@user-zv2eu1vj4l so you are advertising for your next tupperware party..but only inviting math wiz statistical genious' who " work" full time n social media and online college in the comfort of an old armchair in mommies basement.....have you ever talked to real people who make a living working in the woods, forest workers, rangers, hunters, guides and asked them what works better in the real world, or just the " tik tok " fact checkers...and by the way...a " woods " load for .357 magnum is a hardcast 180-200 grain bullet traveling at 1440-1600 fps...show me a 9mini meter load that even comes close to that level.......well...we are all waiting your expert armchair opinion..so get back on tik kok and rally the fact checkers
@@joemarchinski914
Uhhh, Joe, was this reply directed to me? Sounds a bit misdirected methinks. Afterall we’re fundamentally stating the same thing.
A 9 x 19 CARTRIDGE, no matter how “hot” it is loaded, will never “rival” even a conservatively-loaded (within SAAMI specification) .357 magnum CARTRIDGE.
There are two 9mm cartridges there were designed for usage in semi-auto pistols that MAY rival the .357: the 9 x 23 (23 mm case length) and the 9mm Winchester Magnum (29 mm case length). Along with a few other 9mm cartridges (9 x 19 among them), I have loaded these two. The are very potent!
A “woods load” can be whatever the user CHOOSES. It’s the users prerogative! MY choice when choosing the .357 Magnum IS the lead hard cast 180-grain travelling at 1500-1600 fps from a 6-inch barrel revolver when in BLACK bear county so thank you for recognising this combination as I stated in my earlier post.
Regarding what you stated about tiktock, I regret that you have me at a disadvantage. I don’t know what or who that is.
I don’t keep abreast of those things; whatever they are. I keep myself busy working on firearms and reloading during my free time.
@@user-zv2eu1vj4l lmao dude are you fuckin serious with trying to play word games to prove a point? No shit its almost exactly the same diameter. If you need the clarification between common parlance of 9mm and .357 because they're close in size, then you're just showing you don't know shit.
If you're going for a joke, ya fuckin bombed, bud.
@@CrashRacknShoot
Thank you for your response.
357mag for the 🏆. Both have their own applications, ups and downs, depends on your perceived needs, wants and skill level. I think the FINAL nail would be a 147gr 9mm Vs 158gr 357mag match up.
I got a few comments where people were asking "who would even think that 9mm could rival .357 Magnum?" Well, it all started for me in 2018. At that time I just started to get inundated with comments on videos I did with my .357 Mag 686, that "9mm rivals .357 Magnum". Finally, I had one person admit (while he berated me for MY "lies" lol) that a MAC video proved that 9mm rivals .357 Magnum in a video. So, without further ado, here is that video: czcams.com/video/1YTOV4dYLQE/video.html
Unwatchable. I think I will watch your video instead. 👍🏻
Yeah never have made it through any of that guys videos. Boring overlong videos with little actual substance.
BTW, I commented almost 3 years ago on that video this:
"My biggest issue with cartridge comparison is that there is no ONE particular load. Comparing cherry picked crap .38 spl and .357 mag ammo vs great 9x19 ammo don't fly with me. I just chronographed some Buffalo Bore 158 gr+P .38 special in my 4" revolver at 1,150+ fps for 465+ ft lbs energy. In my 342PD .38 special, even with most basic 125gr +P loads I get well over 900 FPS all day of the week, nowhere near where that Starfire .38+P is at. Most ALL .38 special+P 125 gr loads come in at 900 fps+ and 225 ft lbs energy in a 1.875" snubby. I would suggest testing many variations of cartridges in multiple guns and get averages rather than cherry picking crap .38 spl and .357 mag ammo and comparing it to one of the best 9mm loads in comparison."
MAC's response: "You’re an internet expert, of course nothing flies with you. I explain the choice of ammo in the opening of the video."
My response to that: "Say what you will. Ridiculous choice are to each their own. I could load a .380 with 1 grain of pistol powder and then show how a .22 short is more powerful as well"......(No more was said after that)
But seriously, looking back 3 years later his video seems even worse, I mean Starfire .38? Really?!! And American Gunner .357? I got like 1,250 FPS with American Gunner 125 gr .357 in my 686 when a good round like this BB is 1,600 FPS and even Remington UMC is like 1,450 FPS.
@@GunSam Meh don't worry about it,some people have to compare apples to oranges just to try to prove their point. What I've always liked with your channel is you try to keep everything as evenly matched as possible. Of the many gun channels I used to watch I'm pretty much down to just yours and Forgotten Weapons,can't find much interest anywhere else,even Paul Harrell has taken a turn for the worse IMO. Keep up the good work and you'll be at 100k subs before you know it.👍👍
@@rob.3575 Thanks! Yeah I watch forgotten weapons sometimes.
You would have to be diluted to think that the 9 mm equals a 357 9 mm is nothing more than a 38 plus
I ran Hornady's Ballistic Calculator with this ammo and I got very interesting results. The numbers came in that the .357 Magnum had the EXACT same energy at 75 yards as the 9mm+P+ had at 5 yards, both 477 FPE. Energy at 25 yards is the 9mm+P+ is at 425 FPE and the .357 Magnum is at 622 FPE. Energy at 100 yards had the 9mm at 319 FPE and the .357 Mag at 421 FPE. Once both get to 150 yards they both start to even out. In order of 9mm/.357 Mag here are the numbers in yards and energy: (150y) 276/339, (200y) 246/288, (250y) 223/252, (300y) 203, 226.
honest opinion it really doesnt matter which is best if you have a modern gun and can shoot unless its too small for dangerous game you probably are gona be ok i carry a full sized polymer 9mm for convenience
@original lone wolf these rounds, are what went in it. So 124 gr for 9mm and 125 for .357
@@joemorganeatmyshortschannel 357 is better
@@357-swagnumultramagax9 better is subjective if i have 6 rounds and 10 people try attacking me id say no
@@joemorganeatmyshortschannel But to be fair, I have never heard of a story of an armed permit holder shooting 10 people. 2 or 3 maybe.
The 357 is indisputably more powerful than a 9mm. I've owned both (now have a 9mm and a 45) and can attest to the fact a 357 is quite a bit more powerful than a 9mm, BUT, a 357 generally carries 6 rounds, my 9mm carries 18 in the magazine and 19 with one in the chamber. That's 3 times the capacity + 1. That's the deciding factor for me.
@@thepatriotsrage661 I agree with you also. I think in most cases the 9mm will get the job done with bullets to spare. Good ammo and shot placement are important and I found I was just a little more accurate with my 9's and 380's than I was with my 357's and 45. Still, I wish I'd never sold my Colt Python. Bought it in 1986 and I absolutely loved it but I found a rifle I really wanted and couldn't afford. Oh well, water under the bridge as they say.
@@thepatriotsrage661 Yeah, I wish I'd bought 3 or 4 of them and kept them til now. I could sell a couple of them and be almost wealthy, lol. You're right about the new ones, they just aren't as good as the old ones. South Africa eh? I've heard things have gotten rough down there in certain areas, for white people at least. It's getting bad here for whites in some areas too. Looks like we're the oppressed minority now. By the way, how are gun laws there?
Everyone always says that in an overly large majority of self defense cases , it’s over In less than 6 rounds. But to me the deciding factor is , do you really need to blast tf out of your attacker with a 357 magnum and kill them possibly instantly. Or just shoot them with the 9 , they’re probably gonna be out of the fight unless they’re mentally ill or on drugs or you’re using shitty ammo. You gotta remember there’s been times where the court has questioned the ammo or the caliber the person was using to defend themselves with. Like with the 10mm they had thought it was overkill in one case I don’t remember the name
@@michaeldanchez9530 My deciding factor is still capacity and ease of reloading. I agree that in most "normal" self defense situations 6 rounds will probably be enough. However, given the weird and hostile world we live in now, riots, BLM, ANTIFA, left vs right hostility, I'm going to carry at least 37 rounds, just in case I find myself in a crowd of hive mind lemmings bent on assualt and destruction. I won't use lethal force if I don't have to, but if they try assualt me or mine I will consider that a threat on our lives and act accordingly. These days capacity matters more than size.
Shouldn’t need that many bullets. Gotta get more accurate if you need 19 lmao
I love this channel. I’m just waiting for all the butt hurt 😭 9mm fanboy comments. Not that I don’t appreciate 9mm but it’s definitely not a 357 magnum.
Indeed.
I got lucky with my Taurus 66 4-inch...it actually was built right, and runs flawlessly. NOTHING like a .357.....I prefer it over a 9mm any day.
9mm is "380 long" to me...
@carpe diem 😮😆🤣🤣🤣
@carpe diem It would take someone who's actually gay to make such a gay comment !
@@waynestone6462 Nice attempt at a joke, but it made no sense at all.
You'd be hard pressed to find a .357 magnum firearm that can't handle any off-the-shelf ammo available. However it's very easy to find 9mm handguns that specifically say in the manual, "do not use 9mm +P or +P+."
I would avoid using LCR or J-frame revolvers for this hot Buffalo Bore stuff. Not going to break them, but the lightweight nature might lead to bullet-pull due to stiff recoil, also beat your hand to death and be uncontrollable. Probably knock the revolver out of timing too.
Throw in 38spl and you would have my 3 favorite rounds. I carry all three at different times and they are all good for self defense. Thanks for another great video on some good ammo.👍👍
Thanks for watching.
Mine as well! I carry a 38spl snubbie concealed. A 9mm sub compact, and open carry/home defense a 4in .357 magnum revolver.
Same here
@@SHOT_GUNNER Nice. I have a 4" Service 6 Ruger stainless .357. Really like it especially after my gunsmith changed out the sights. That and my 12 G. Remington are within reach at my bedside. I have 2 good dogs inside the invisible fence. The postal workers wont even come in. They just leave a note.... lol.
While we’re at it, 10mm in no way rivals .41 magnum unless you do the best/worst ammo comparison there too.
The 10mm maxes at around 750 fpe while the .41 maxes at 1300 fpe... And that's at the top of the SAMMI safe rating.
@@glenspryszak6005 For sure. While staying within SAAMI spec, a 10mm can barely reach 1200 fps with a 220 grain cast bullet. The .41 magnum can do that with a 300 grain cast bullet.
I have even heard that the 10mm equals the 44 mag. on a forum somewhere so it must be true🙄
One might be better off with a Glock in 10mm, having shot 6 rounds, and having 9 left, than with a .41 magnum, having shot 6 rounds and having an empty gun.
@@DonMeaker No thanks. The high cap thing is just a red herring. You only need high cap if you can’t shoot straight or aren’t using enough gun. Dangerous animals are dangerous because they’re coming after you, and you’re going to have a second or two to make a decisive shot. Do I want a 265 grain bullet at 1300, or a 220 at 1150 when that time comes?
Without even watching the video I can already tell you from experience the 9mm does not have the same amount of power as the Magnum the 9mm is used more simply because the 9 can be used in semi autos and that means larger capacity than the 357..
Not true, at 5 yards the 9mm+P+ has just as much energy as the .357 Mag had at 75 yards! 😆
Actually there is two semi autos that can shoot the 357 mag
@@donaldballman2825 Yes there are probably more than 2 but off the top of my head I can think of the 1911 style Coonan and The Desert Eagle and there both single stack 7-9 shot capacity then look at something like the Sig Saur p320x5 in 9mm its a full size polymer Duty pistol and the mags hold 21 rounds
and comes with 4 of them💩💩sheeeeeeiiitt that a lot of firepower 💩💩 Now dont get me wrong I luv the 357mag and prefer it but I think it's true that more people nowadays don't really practice as much as they should so they feel like they have a better chance of hitting their target 😉 if you catch my drift I think it's way more comfortable to carry a 5round S&W Chiefs special and make sure that you are well acquainted with your peace keeper so if you ever have to draw down on some sorry SOB each one of those miniature rockets makes it to the correct point where you wanted it too..
@@zzxxooooxxzz4964 those are the ones I was thinking about and it doesn't matter how many rounds your gun holds it's been proven that the majority of conflict where guns are used for self defense 2-3 rounds all that are needed, if you need 15+ rounds for protection then you need to get more range time or get out of the war zone lol
@@donaldballman2825 right on brother I agree with you 100%
Great video. I always enjoy your content. Entertaining and also educational. Hard to argue with the results with your tests. You cover all aspects of ballistics. Great job.
Always fun to watch and I even learn something. 😁👍 I had to laugh you took one for the team. Baloney ended up on your shoulder. Ha!!!
Short of possible hearing loss, I'll bet my life on my 8-shot S&W Performance Center .357.
I love my 8 shot S&W .357. One hell of a gun!
Morrison, I have two of them. That is because I wore my first one out. Got the second one while it was at the factory, being rebuilt. I wore out my first .44 mag, also. S&W rebuilt it. No charge for either gun. Rebuilt for free.
And not factor in capacity...follow up shots...price of ammo...availability of ammo...intensity of sound with no hearing pro. Does it print when carrying? Is it heavy when carrying? 357 is not the best option. Its simply more powerful than a 9mm. But 22lr kills. 9mm kills. 357 kills. You cant be MORE dead than dead.
Awesome test Sam. Once again... why my preference for woods carry will always be 357.
Thank you for another great test, Sam. I really like how you are careful to keep wound channels from interfering with each other in the ballistic gel block. Other CZcamsrs don't seem to be as diligent with this, and they get inaccurate results, ie. penetration values that are falsely too deep.
Thanks. Someone noticed lol. I put some crosshair patter in the gel block with designated shoot areas.
The 357 performed exactly as expected, but the 9mm far exceeded my expectations.
Great stuff! I’m impressed with your recoil control on those hot .357 cartridges. Very very nice shooting.
Awesome video and I really enjoy the way you do your videos.thanks.👊🏻
I paused the video and exited full screen to click like and say, "Yay, Bologna!"
The .357 Mag is a Beast! People just don't realize! Great video
Thank you.
Super underrated Firearms channel! Love the content and the information! Thanks Sam!👍🇺🇸💪🤙
Thank you.
Awesome video!! loved the baloney test also.. You have great content and keep up the great comparisons. Your videos have got me working on my own testing because it looks like great fun also.
Another great educational video! Your hard work and attention to detail for these videos are much appreciated.
Thank you very much!
Show these results to a 9mm fanboy and you'll still hear "but still, 9mm is still better than .357 (or anything for that matter)
Oh I know. "But you only have six rounds, 447 ft lbs times 17 is more overall energy than 712 times 6". They are funny.
Yeah can't wait to hear "Yeah but's"
But...but....my +p+...but...but...what if you get attacked by a platoon.....but..but..
@@GunSam But... but... my 9mm accepts glock clippazines.
@@CommunismiEstCacas Glock Mags ARE the Gold standard ! Quality at a low price !!
I picture the guys who believe 9mm rivals .357 as the kind of guy who owns a sub compact nine and loads it with 115 grain hollow points. Which, there is nothing wrong with, but ballistics and firearms encompass a much wider world.
That .357 made a bologna SAMwich out of you.
One of my favorite episodes Luv the emojis in the description 😂 💪🤠💥❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️
13:28 second Bologna"i went for the head"
YAS!! The Jug-or-not is back!
That was a great test and well done !
No one ever walked away from a .357 jhp regardless of how hot. Great job Sam proving your point.
Essential Science!!!!
Thanks for all the work on this.
Thanks for watching!
There was a police shooting in a Portsmouth city courthouse back in Virginia 30+ years ago where a just convicted prisoners took off running.The cop put a .357 bullet into him.It stopped him cold but it hit 2 lawyers coming out of an elevator at the end of the hall.Both lawyers sued and won big judgments against the county.That is when the cops went to 9mm. I have both cals. and carry the 9mm for cc. I carry the .357 for hunting/hiking sidearm and I'd trust it to do a better job on bears and cougars.I'd never load it with anything less than 180gr. Buffalo for carry.For target practice I use what I can find.I killed a few whitetails with 140 grains at under 50 yrds from a Ruger Blackhawk. The .357 out of a rifle has taken a lot of game up to deer so its good but not so good if it hits bystanders after passing thru the intended target.
I tested the 180 gr Buffalo Bore round. Same energy as this round and honestly to me, the 180 had less felt recoil. Probably not a fact, but something about it shot smoother than the 125 gr.
Bullet weight and barrel length of the 357? Sounds rather like it was a 158gr of some flavor. Cannot imagine a 125 or 110-115gr penetrating a perp and causing significant injury beyond.
Why not sure the fleeing felon? Everybody knows conviks got no $$$$$.
@@floydvaughn836 why shoot a fleeing person in the BACK??!!??
Your video validates the experience I have had in the field. While I love my CZ75 9mm I carry a GP100 in .357.
This was an informative and entertaining video, very nice production quality and analysis.
Thank you.
As always a good and interesting video. That .357 Mag is amazing. Also great shooting. Take care.
Thanks a lot!
One thing that really stood out to me was seeing how much more the. 357 mag moved the steel silhouette compared to the 9mm. I was not expecting that much diff. and it and the metal had a totally differ ring to it.
Well, it is almost exactly 50% more powerful.
@@GunSam good point It def looked like it.
Thee old steel t-post was swaying around.
Exceptional demonstration! There are a lot of “ballistic tests” on CZcams but yours is much more methodical and rigorous. I appreciate your approach and I believe in your results. Also, I am jealous of your test rig! Nice job brother.
Awesome video! I loved how you did both the gel block test and the jug or not box. The jug or not box is my favorite of your tests.
I like a 9mm fine, since I carry the CZ P-10c 9mm, but the 357 magnum is just a beast. And the S&W 686 is just the best revolver for it too.
Thank you for sharing this video. 😁👍
There is no question the .357 is more powerful. It kinda makes me wonder how my 6'' GP100 would perform.
This test is probably your best to date. Please keep up the good work Sam.!
It would likely gain more velocity from those extra couple inches. Being heavier it would tame the recoil a little more too.
It will perform like a boss. I have the 4.25" Match Champion-- only because the half-lug gives it the same balance and feel as my Security Six which preceded it. My switch to it was seamless.
Time to carry the Revolver. 🤓👍🏻 Still comfortable with either but glad you got to the bottom.
You do the most thorough and scientific tests!
Yeaaaaaahhhhhh the jug or not is back. Thanks for doing that
Excellent information. 357 rules!!! Of course I shoot both.
Thanks. I had fun with this one, almost everything I thought it would be except I thought the watermelon would vaporize. I guess this BB round is just too fast, but more than likely the stupid hole I drilled in it is the reason why it didn't fully explode.
@@GunSam That's a big melon , looks like it blew up to me .. just a shell left .
Nice video. Glad to see the Jug-er-not box. It's very visual. I was equally glad to see the gelatin because that's the "standard" for comparison now, but the box is quite nice for visual impact.
Personally, I've never cared for the 357. No particular reason, just have never cared for it. Once owned 3. Sold all 3 fairly quickly. I do like the 9mm, but I've never felt that it was equal to the 357. I mean obviously, they can't be equal. But the 9mm is universal, and that's a plus for it. Good video for diehards. Go ahead and love your 9mm. Its good. But it isn't and never has been a 357.
I love this video and back in the good old days of the Jug or Not.
2 beautiful guns. Thanks for the video! 357 is a beast.
It's really odd. 9mm obviously has its own advantages in terms of general capacity and recoil control, and nobody is denying that is an effective man stopping round. Why do people feel the need to further justify use of it by trying to throw 357 mag under the bus?
I think there's just a need to give examples of it's power. And, rivaling .357 Mag sound cooler than 50% better than a .380.
Both are good & useful when Sane loads are used in guns the shooter can handle . RE: what gun & ammo combo .... That is more complex . Many different people , many different jobs to do , get the best tools you can . Take your NEW gun , 1st clean & oil , then go test to be sure it works ... clean & oil as needed . Any new gun I treat as I would a new engine , some people brake in barrels the same way , clean often when new to get all the burrs & bits of metal out .
That's right! Like even in this 686 I feel like the Critical Duty 135 gr is the best, as it's energy is only a tad above 500 FPE and shoots so good. Same with .327 in the pocket, no Gold Dot at 450 FPE for me, rather I use lower end stuff.
@@GunSam In 44 special & 10mm around 450 - 550 Ft Lbs is my sweet spot ... 9mm likely a little less 350 - 400 ?? Not sure what 115 Crit Def is .. I like it , likely a min amount of power to work well .
Your test of Horn Crit Def 9mm 115 gr 4" was 328 ft / lbs cream puffs that work well .
Been watching most of a year. Like your style and conclusions. Today I became a sub. Thanks
Thanks!
Thanks for a comprehensive review. I like both calibers. Thumb up.
Man I knew you were watering down your watermelons lol. Still the "greatest".
9mm fan boy here:
I once shot a Rugger eagle talon 9mm round through my floor. It completely shredded wood and continued into the ground. Legend has it that it was found in China and was put in a museum as proof of American superiority and to motivate their students.🙃
My Grandpa did that same thing back in 1945 except his tumbled and ended up in Germany and is what killed Hitler.
Very thorough tests!
Informative video as usual. Like to see the same challenge with 9mm vs 327. Great to see the return of the “jug-r-not’ box.
Excellent comparison....
I never shoot 357 only 38 special so it would be nice to see how a good 9mm defense load stacks up against a good 38 special defense load...
Great video. Keep up the great work. Best informational videos on CZcams. Thank you. Go 357 magnum. I carry one everyday
Thanks a lot!
Great props and comparisons. The surprise to me was the gel penetration, or lack of, comparatively by the .357. The issue for me would be round capacity and reloading. Have both, but love revolvers 😊. Thanks for the video !
Glad to see the jugs back! Thanks
I carry both as my EDC. A G19 IWB and a Five shot 357Mag in my pocket.
What the fuck do you wear where you can comfortably carry both of those?
@@Mandalore863 honestly that sounds pretty easy to do, I have done it too. A Ruger Security 9 which is same size as a G19, I used a Desantis leather holster which sucks the pistol tight, and a 5 shot in the pocket. Very easy.
@@GunSam you guys must not wear alot of fitted/form fitting clothing, then. No way I could comfortably carry a G19 without discomfort and serious printing.
@@Mandalore863 cargo shorts with a belt or Pants with a belt. I'm a bigger guy so I'm always rockin a 3X shirt that completely conceals my waistband.
@@GunSam Exactly thank you. Glad to hear I'm not the only one. There's too many bad guys with guns and not enough of us good guy's carrying.
like to see 10mm against the .357 or how close they are when compared.
Should be fairly close, the hottest underwood loads out there for 10 and 357 are within 100 ft lbs of each other.
@@usa-rb5fi Underwood loads semi-auto cartridges really well. They are usually max. They stink at loading rimmed revolver cartridges by comparison. That's where Buffalo Bore exceeds them. One exception is the 158gr .38 Special +p. Underwood is equal or slightly better in that one.
the 9mm vs .357 was the reason the .357 SiG was developed - to try to get 9mm ballistic close to those of the .357 Mag
I'm glad you got a torso target to test at 25 yards, it will give us a better understanding of how well the handguns are dong at that range.
Who cares? There's always another more powerful cartridge.
I don't think anyone will argue that 9mm equals .357mag...in general. The idea is that a 9mm snub using +p ammo will be equal to defense level .357 ammo out of a snub. Other people have tested this and in some cases the 9mm is even a hair faster. Sure you can load a .357 with full power ammo and there's no contest, but that's not the argument. Do love your channel btw.
Thanks. You would be surprised, having even a small gun channel I still get 500 comments a day on a new video day, in addition to regular comments. I still get the whole "9mm rivals .357 Magnum" in part because of MAC releasing a video on the subject 3 years ago.
@@GunSam Sounds like the 9mm fanboys are trying to cope with how lame their popguns are compared to the .357
@@53ROK No their trying to make the 9mm something it will never be instead of imbracing it for what it is and that's that it is probly the best semi auto caliber you could ever hope for,,,look at it's virues,,,to start it's a very effiencient little round meaning it uses a very small overall powder charge to get the rather good performance that it has all things considered,,,that effiencientcy means and leads to the other possitive virtues of low recoil lower flash and noise and the gun will stay a bit cleaner in general leading to less maintenance or lack of maintainence induced problems,,,and all of that also means it can be packed into some really small and light compact pistols while still being not too awefull terrible to shoot and still carry fair round count,,,,and it's all the more needed in terms of power for pretty much any human target on the planet,,,,,I love my 357 wheel guns,,,, but in comparison the 357 is NOT an effiecient round, it takes looooonnng barrels in terms of a carry gun and LOTS of slow burning and dirtier burning powder to get those big performance numbers (more than twice as much of it than a 9mm),,, which in terms of effienciency leads itself to heavier weight bullets (the 357 actually becomes a bit more effiencient with 158+ grain bullets ),,,,and because of those big powder charges you end up with recoil that is rather brisk to say the least and more than many want to deal with especially in a very small super light package, guns like the S&W 340pd that weighs a mere 11.8 ounces will send many guys crying for their momma after just a shot or 2,,,I usaully only carry 38 or 38+p in mine beacause of how it is to shoot,,,,, and I have been shooting way bigger caliber handguns for 40 year now nearly,, add to that that the 357 is one noisy SOB compared to the 9mm and also WAY more flash and the 357 with anything but fairly reduced loads is just not the best anti human defense tool a guy could have,,,it's also way overkill in terms of raw power,,,bear in mind that 1600 fps such as sam was getting in this video is NOT the complete upper limits of the 357,,,you saw how easily the spent cases extracted,,,,,well in the past when i was a bit braver or maybe a tad more foolish depending on your view of things I tried prentending I was Elmer Keith and come up with something new,,,,,so I used a ultra stong Ruger built 7.5 inch barreled blackhawk to see just how far the 357 could be pushed (35 years ago now),,,well the with the case stuffed as full of 2400 or H110 type powders and still be able to barely get a bullet also suffed far enough into the case while not being too long to fit the cylinder((loaded longer slightly than normal specs) (or simlar that I experimented with that was available then,,,faster burning powders were not what you want because pressures go though the roof before reasonable gains are realized),,,anyhow with these HUGE powder charges I was able to get velocities out of that 7.5 inch barrel that were starting to knock on the back door of nearly the 2000 FPS mark with a 125 grain XTP bullet,,,or in other words nearing the performance of the now extinct or nearly so 357 remington maximum,,,however I was doing it at what was without a dought rather dangerous pressure levels because not only were primers looking flatened severly and extraction difficult but primers were also starting to show signs of completely blowing out from the tell tale black ring starting to form around the primer,,,,,anyhow at that point I backed it off just enough to no longer have primer or extraction issues and that loading is still what I use in all my 357's as my full house carry or whatever loads, and from a 4 inch barrel it still rips along at a smidge over 1700 fps, however from watching guys like Sam here and a couple other guys that use ballistics gel to test,,,something I never had back then,,,, I have started backing off even more in my recent rounds because at such speeds over expansion and bullet seperation become more of a negative than the extra speed or energy is a possitive,,,to everything there is a limit,,,,anyhow my carry these days is a 9mm and I embrace it very favorably for those possitive virtues,,,I just wish the over the top fan boys would learn to do the same instead of thinking they have to protect their man card or something by trying to make it something it is not nor will ever be.
AWESOME!!!
What is your Intro and Outro Music? Sounds vaguely DEEP PURPLE 💜💜💜
Well laid out for fairness of one against the other. No question that 357 is King of this contest ! Your graphic on actual barrel lengths with the wood dowels demonstrates well how auto pistol vs revolver barrels are measured in completely different ways. ( BTW- I also shoot auto pistols with the "Thumb on Thumb" hold, don't know for sure if it gives better control but I like it and it feels like it tames recoil down a bit).
Thanks. I get a few people bugged by thumb over thumb, but it makes me able to shoot anything. Even derringers well.
That 9mm is impressive...knocking on the door of lighter loaded .357 sig ..
Personally I like both cartridges just depends on the application
Same here. In my house, I think a good 9mm is best. People always talk home defense and wanting to limit penetration, but i'm the opposite. If there's an armed killer kicking at my door, I want something that can put like 10 rounds through the door!
@@GunSam yeah I totally agree
Nice test and thanks for it.
If there was ever any doubt this should clear things up. 357magnum also puts a bigger smile on my face when I squeeze the trigger.
My guess would be the .357 magnum didn’t care about the MDF, or was “barrier blind”. 👍👍👍👍👍
.357 magnum is King!!!
@@ratagris21 I carry either a 2.5” or 3” S&W 686 Plus daily. 👍
@@frankbutta9344 I'm with you. I carried a 3" 65 going back into the early 90s, it was off and on once decent light weight compact autos came out in the late 2000s because she is heavy lol. Now days I still carry the 65 at times but use a 649 357 bodyguard when concealment is higher priority but I still want to be prepared for serious social work. 357 is my compromise from all the cartridges out there and have and will put my ass on the line with that choice.
Revenge of the bologna pack
Great performance from both, nice video as always Sam!
Thanks!
Thanks for the comparison, Sam. You are absolutely correct. In a fair match up the .357 Magnum wins hands down.
Umm well the 9mm with buffalo bore 147gr +p hard cast and seismic 185gr Ammo I would say the 9mm does rival the 357 Magnum you CZcamsrs constantly only show 115gr and 124gr you never show the 9mm heavier Rounds like the buffalo bore 147gr +p and seismic 185gr 9mm Ammo I know no one who today uses 115 or 124gr in their 9mm unless it's at the Range
I would take a 9MM with the Ammo you mentioned over a 357 all day long
I tested Buffalo Bore 147 gr +P+ in this 5" M&P pistol and it was 1,147 FPS 429 FPE. I also tested the 147+P hard cast but in a 3.2" pistol, but that being said a 147 gr gain less in more barrel length than 115 or 124 and that got 1,057 FPS/365 FPE. The closer you go to 147 gr the less power you have. I'm trying to respond but it's hard because you're complaining about things that you have no idea what you are talking about.
@@GunSam next time test the 9mm seismic 185gr Ammo and by the way the buffalo bore 147gr +p hard cast is the same Ammo that dropped 1100 pound Alaskan Grizzly bear...the 357 magnum would be practically useless against a gun battle today....my wife carries buffalo bore 147gr +p hard cast in one and the other seismic 185gr both 9mm are with her at all times and they are 12 and 17 round Magazines this isn't the 1970's anymore and Ammo Technology Advancement for the 9mm has come a long way
@@GunSam and by the way I do know what I'm talking about the 115gr and 124gr are weak rounds Range rounds
Revolvers still and always RULE even putting the 9mm to shame. PERIOD.
Yeah.
In all my 39 years on this planet, I have never heard anyone claim that 9mm is more powerful than .357 mag. Never even heard someone claim they were close in power.
I get a lot of comments of such, all the time. Odds I suppose, as a regular person probably talks guns with people a few times a year, while with a gun channel it's a few times an hour, all day every day for 12 years. I would say I have heard it 50 times, along with MAC's video "9mm spanks .38 Special and rivals .357 Magnum".
Amazing testing. They should hire you to do ballistic reviews of everything!
9mm can only rival .357 in barrels shorter than 2”. With that little barrel travel the 357 is mostly noise and recoil, still at least as powerful as the 9mm but the performance gap is very small. The longer the barrel the greater the discrepancy.
I’m of the opinion that anyone who shoots .357 out of that short a barrel is a glutton for punishment.
Yeah, I carry a snub .357 while my .327 is out for repair, and I carry Buffalo Bore .38+P because it's the best choice. In small guns it needs to be 9mm or .38+P, leave the .357 Mag to a full size gun.
What's your opinion on a Ruger sp101 .357 3" is it decent or can compete with 9mm?
9mm can't even hold up to properly loaded .38 spl. What makes people think it can stand and bang with .357 mag?
MAC and his video that 9mm rivals .357 Magnum and spanks .38 Special.
Exactly. The recoil is about the same too. So all they can say is capacity. And when a 30 year study say the average EDC gun used in a self defense situation only fires 2.7 times. So having 17 really is no advantage!
@@GunSam MAC channel is 100% all about 9mm. I think he can even throw a 9mm pistol farther than a 38sp or 357 mag.. so that makes it better. 😆😆😆
I love 9mm. I carry it daily. I'm just not a fool thinking it's superior to everything else out there lol.
Great video, I am actually using this 357 Buffalo Bore for my EDC, they had it in stock a month ago. Real pleased with performance, dumps all that energy and does not over penetrate. But EITHER of these rounds are GREAT for personal defense. Hoping I can get the 8 round S&W 627, 4 inch for winter carry by end of year. Researching 10 mm semi-auto as well for EDC. Gotta spread the love.
The little critters are happy the Jug or Not box is back!
Another words we have caught on to many of you and the 9mm 12 and 17 round Magazines if you're going to do a comparison do it right and stop using the weakest rounds
9mm is a fine cartridge.............if you're like.....a little girl or something. 🤣
Love the jugs for sure great video and thanks for shooting the box again for sure
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for taking one for the team! Getting covered with bologna and water is always fun...for us.