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⚡Testing the Highest Manstopper Rounds⚡ - .357 Mag, 9mm, .40 S&W & .45 ACP - Marshall and Sanow List
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- A 10% Clear Ballistics gel test with and without denim and 1/4" medium density fiberboard with some rounds that show over 90% one shot stop on the Marshall and Sanow one shot stop statistics list.
1 .45 ACP 230 gr Federal Hydrashok=94% one shot stop.
2. 9mm+P 115 gr Corbon JHP=91% one shot stop.
3 .357 Magnum 125 gr Remington SJHP=96% one shot stop
4 .40 S&W 135 gr Corbon JHP=96% one shot stop.
Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
I totally agree with your assessment about the 40 over 9mm. I like the 40 over the 9mm also because it makes a 10mm hole.👍😊
I've used Remington HTP for both hunting and everyday carry for many years. While people have been frantically trying to create the "Perfect Handgun Cartridge" with exotic shapes and expensive materials, HTP has been quietly getting the job done year after year. And I don't have to take out a second mortgage to buy a case of it, so I'm not shy about shooting it regularly.
Seriously! Dunno about y'all but I'm getting a little burnt out on manufacturer's current war on "magic bullets" like all this shit hasn't already been proven decades ago
I have the Remington UMC 357 Mag SJHP loaded and it is inexpensive enough to use at the range. It is also very accurate and reliable. It is the same stuff as the HTP though it has a brass case and not nickle. A box of 100 UMC rounds can usually be found for around $75 and sometimes even less.
@@MacPoop Some of it is just cognitive dissonance from the users believing fiercely in something that simply isn't rational and proven, selective data, preferences, trusting law enforcement or FBI or military, or whatever the case.
Winchester White Box JHP is also crushing
I got plenty of it from before Covid hit. It's not something you would want to get into an argument with. You should see what it does to barnyard pigeons. Feathers everywhere!
.357 consistently makes the gel dance. 🎉❤😂
Something makes me think Paul likes Big Butts and can not lie....
@@DanTheWolfman Only 158g ones LMAO
@@pauldunecat
But the risk of over penetration is very high with those. Awhile back I tried a Speer gold dot bonded JHP 158 with my Ruger GP100 6" on a huge boar carcass that still had the bones & organs intact & the bullet passed right through a human torso is much softer than that.
@@PerceptionVsReality333 I have a box of 20 of the S.G.D. 158. What size exit hole did it make?
@@bluracer766
Like golf ball diameter it shattered bones too. It's a very powerful round I wish I could find them but nobody ever has it in stock anymore. Through the chrono I was getting around 1,460 fps & 650+ ft/lbs through that 6" barrel.
Always appreciate your testing and knowledge in your videos.
.40 is currently, and has been my personal choice for
the last 25 years.
Likewise! 💯
@Spectacular Spectacular I own a Glock 23 .40 that can shoot .357 Sig along with 9mm with a simple swap of the barrel, so needless to say that I have a .357 Sig barrel made by KKM that I shoot regularly, but as great as it shoots my G31 full size 357 Sig shoots even better. Why this caliber isn't adopted by more law enforcement agencies is beyond me because this is a far superior round to the 9mm and ,40.
357 Magnum the only handgun i ever owned & only handgun i ever will own... other than that i have a AK, Ar15, M1A Sniper, & a Mossberg 590 shotgun 👌🏾😎
@@504Treyyou sir need a polymer handgun with an optic. Than we can semi say your collection is complete. I need to get me an ar15 and some of other bolt action long gun to have the minimal.
Thanks for your post, Sam. Well, the old dependable rounds came through. It's hard to beat .357 Magnum and 40 S&W rounds came through as usual. Game changers.
Thanks for watching!
Man, the 40 and 357 mag really knocked that block around ! The one thing they can't measure in a gel block is ft lbs of energy at impact. This vid did that.
Great vid
They’re all lethal. Stopping power (especially one shot) is driven by a multitude of variables from shot placement to the aggressor’s mind set so that’s almost impossible compare accurately with comparable handgun rounds. One factor that’s important to factor is the platform and how the design is conducive to getting effective hits. I don’t feel under gunned with any of the rounds you tested for a typical concealed carry situation.
That was another great video. The look on your face as you were watching the camera fall over from the 357 magnum, was priceless.
Thanks. Well at this point I have seen everything. SO it's like, not gonna get mad, it's gonna screw me over and break my tripod or it's not, just paying attention calmly.
@@GunSam 10/4, btw I also want to say thank you for selling me on the S&W 686 4 inch barrel, Its a fantastic 357 magnum, I have two older K frame smiths, in 357 magnum, I bought used. And after seeing how well the under lug on the 686 helps with muzzle rise, not that 357 magnum has a ton of recoil, but it still helps keep me on target, for faster follow up shots And the fact it's got a full forcing cone for a steady diet of full power (like buffalo bore) 357 magnum ammo sold me on it. So again thank you Gun sam, and also keep up the great work here on CZcams.
The .40 is a modern round. It was developed and then tested before being used by many LE agencies across the nation.........Then the generation born in the mid 80s and 90s became officers and the .40 became too snappy for video game controller strength hands.
The problem with ..40 S&W being "Snappy" has more to do with the fact majority of gun companies just swap out a barrel, extractor, and change the magazine to adapt a gun to .40 S&W vs 9mm. While this is one of the nice things about .40, that it is easily converted to a 9mm or vice versa, the recoil springs in most firearms are too light for .40 S&W to be comfortable. Especially in polymer framed pistols.
Early .40 S&W's also had reputations for blowing guns up, cracking frames, and etc. All of which led to it's negatives in it's reputation. However, when companies built a gun from ground up to run .40 S&W like the H&K USP for example... those issues were not very pronounced at all and they were seen very positively. Heavier steel frame guns handled it better for a while too but they eventually were traded for things like Glock's which at the time were the worst examples of a .40 S&W and felt recoil.
People are always on a quest for 2 main things in firearms... Power and lighter weight. Everyone wants the most powerful thing in the lightest possible weight because they want to know it'll stop whatever they shoot but they don't want to tote around a hefty gun all day. So, when people built .40 S&W's to those specifications they found out they hated them and thus it's been cast aside in favor of 9mm because it's more tame in those same sized guns. But even now with 9mm, guns like the Sig P365 get touted as "snappy" and etc. There's just a point in every caliber where a gun is too small and too light to be comfortable or effective.
The armed forces & tier 1 guys had Glock 22s 23s 27s for a brief period but even they returned to 9x19mm models. It was a smarter choice & the procurement process, contracts 📂 were faster for 9mm. Law enforcement in the USA also began to shift to +P 9mm pistols. I often carry, ccw 9mm guns in 124gr +P(bonded). I own a few .40 & .45acp guns too.
My glock 31 with a .40S&W barrel and a 24lbs recoil spring reduced the felt recoil considerably. It is now way more pleasant to shoot. Recoil is completely manageable.
The 9mm discussion reminds me of those Secret deodorant commercials back in the 1980's "strong enough for a man but made for a woman" 😃
@@Predalien195 (Defensive) "Gun People" may be on a quest for more power and lighter weight, but law enforcement agencies are looking for two other things above that: adequate performance and the lowest-possible cost for that performance. While I think the Miami Shootout aftereffect is very interesting, pistols still come down to being anemic in stopping power, short of carrying .357 again, but that has it's own issues for the average cop (who is often not an avid shooter). The Timothy Gramins shootout, more recently, is another example of a bad guy taking a tremendous amount of punishment before being put down.
I think LE is accepting that pistols just don't put down bad guys with "one shot stopping power", no matter which Glock you carry (yes, I'm being cheeky, but they do make w/e caliber you want to carry in an auto), so just go with the cheapest option since they all aren't really that great, and the most non-gun-type cop out there can handle the gun.
Totally agree. the 40 is definitely the one for me.
Me too I ✋️ totally agree 👍
Correct
9mm is better than 40😃
@@Isee333 wrong
@Spectacular Spectacular I have a .357 Sig barrel for my G22 and I've run many .357 Sig rounds through it. Still prefer the 40. Not so blasty.
.40 is devastating and not expensive like sig or OP like 44. The Underwood 135 is in my Smith on the nightstand. Great test again Sam!
love .40 s&w, and love .357 magnum, the 2 ideal cartridge calibers for a semi-auto handgun and revolver handgun
Thank you
Correct.
Interestingly , the outstanding performance of .40S&W is with * 135 gr * . During the .40 Era this weight was distant third in popularity with both LE and the public , behind 180 and 165gr .
The big proponent of 135gr loaded hot was the US Border Patrol .
A medium sized PD of my intimate acquaintance also issued USBP spec 135 for most of the .40 Era ( * Transition from previous 9mm was optional for most of the era , and significant % stuck with 9mm ).
Interesting story from the Head Gun Guy . At a LE Seminar from one of the Big Three ammo mfgs , also included offering the use of full FBI protocol Gel tests with their legacy Duty Ammo , with the obvious aim of generating orders for their Latest Greatest Super Duper Duty Ammo line .
On all the tests , the old school USBP spec 135gr did at least as well , with the exception of penetrating car windshields .
@@ethanmac639
A 40s&w 155 grain bonded JHP rated at 1.200 fps is the best anti-personnel pistol round IMO. I have a few boxes of the stuff in FMJ & JHP for my Glock22 gen 3 & it's a blaster I put a non-captured steel guide + 20lb spring from Wolff & fully supported barrel.
💥💥💥
Because it works, the .357 Magnum Remington 125 grain is what I carry in my GP100 in a shoulder holster. I‘ve shot varmints with it, and one turkey at 20 yards in the neck. Yes, it’s that accurate in my revolver!
love the .357 magnum and the .40 s&w
I have the same gun & it's the most accurate one I have.
Those 135 Corbon 40 S&W were hot in the day. They had similar velocity to the 357 125 gr of the day, with extra capacity.
Of course, the 180 44 magnums then were the ones I really liked. The fireball would singe the eyebrows of anyone within 10 feet in front of the muzzle, even if you missed.😉
I always knewd that .357 was a grizzle bear stopper, as well as a ballistic gel and camera killer. That's why I carry one. You just never knowd if there's a ballistic gel with camera lurking, lurking around the next corner !
Another great test!
I had another 45ACP vs 9mm internet "discussion" yesterday.
I will always go to my thoughts on bullet expension AND penetration.
In our tests of 45ACP 230gr JHP and +P JHP bullets they expand to about .78" and penetrate to about 12-14 inches.
Typical 9mm defensive ammo (NOT exotic loads) that we have tested may penetrate further but they don't expand beyond .6 inches.
To my point: A larger hole = more tissue damage (both temporary and permanent cavities) as well as more blood loss.
But because the FBI switched back to 9mm, our agency is going away from 40S&W and 45ACP to 9mm. The current debate is. going to either the 124 grain or the 147 grain JHP bullets.
(I am so glad that I am getting close to retirement)
@@TransformersHoarder so the 45 would be preferable shot for shot to even something like a 357Mag?
Interesting. The two 45 shots are a great demonstration of the difference between “JHP worked well” and “JHP didn’t work.” That 357 125 SJHP has built its well deserved reputation over decades. Today we have great ammo available in all major calibers. When I started carrying, that was not the case. Great demonstration and comparison! 👍
Thanks a lot!
i have been loading 40 for about 25 years. say what you want about the 'old' bullets but the hydra shok has always done well for me, as have gold dot and hst. everyone says 9mm bullet design has improved so much over the last couple decades. still waiting for it to catch up to 30yo .40 stuff
@@boedude8496 The quotations and references about 9mm come from law enforcement agencies, FBI, military. Testing through windshield glass, sheet metal, other hard barriers. And in those cases, yes, they've made improvements no doubt. But all of that might just be trusting in ammo that performs in circumstances that are NOT going to be experienced by the common person. It's like an associative trust in something because it does well in some circumstances, assuming that it will perform well in ALL circumstances, or circumstances outside the unique testing protocols.
@@exothermal.sprocket
no doubt they can figure out some tests that will show improvement, and maybe slightly even in general. but there isn't much the government is going to do that most of us older folks haven't been doing for longer than i have been around. i welcome any betterment to the shooting world. just not so quick to buy a corporate or government line. i see what i see
@@boedude8496 Even Paul Harrell has concluded the .40 S&W better than 9mm in his meat targets.
.40s&w was the stuff years ago and still is in my opinion.
Correct
#40gang
I'm still a fan of it even though I now carry 357 Sig. I carry it to save weight.
Don't tell Ken Hackathorn 🤫 ....
I don't understand the 40 hate lol 2 of my favorite handguns are 40's
The .40 is impressive and I think I’ll have to have one. I can’t believe this caliber is not the most popular semi-auto round.
Haters like Ken Hackathorn & cadre knock the .40 down, 2023. I own & carry a few .40 models. M&P full size, a few Glocks. 22, 22 MOS. I like the 165gr JHP .40 design. I feel safe with it.
People who can't actually shoot like the ability to carry 17 rounds of 9 to try and overcompensate for their own personal..."shortcomings".
In the US it once was the most popular round.
Been carryi g and shootin .40 for over a decade now. I've had plenty of haters, always the same arguments of capacity..... and recoil.... it's really not much different then anything else. I've been rockin 165 grain jhp ammo for probably 8 years in my glock 23, seems to be the best for the caliber, for my gun. I've takin beaver, coyotes and deer with it. I've rarely ever needed a follow up shot to finish the job. 40 is a hell of a cartridge and I was plenty happy when all the ammo bs was happening i was still able to get ammo and shoot pretty much on the regular. I dont mind if guys dont like it, more ammo for me.
Commenting before I watch. .40 S&W for the win 🥇!! Let’s goooo!! 😝
Now I’m back after watching and 100% agree. Ideal shots to stop are aimed through bone, and non ideal shots like quartering away might have to pass through an arm and still do damage. I’m taking the .40 S&W or .357 Sig for sub compact carry every time. Energy Ft-lbs matter.
Great testing! Your real world testing really does demonstrate effective bullets. Plain ballistic gel makes most bullets expand . I agree with the 40S&W and 357 comments. It's too bad the 40 is falling out of favor.
For me as a Brit ex forces ole git 62 in permitted areas (Sulks not the UK) 357 or winter carry 44 mag in rural areas. In urban areas 9mm+ p or a 45. Keep up training, practice, good discipline, awareness, when the threat is real. Rapid/accurate shot placement.
Wat
For decades now, 40SW has been my preference for EDC and home defense. Depending on time of year, weather, and mode of dress, my EDC rotation has been G22, G23, G27.
Thanks for braving winter weather to make this thoughtful, informative vid. 👍
Really excellent video. I like how the 9mm knocked the front gel block off followed by the 357 throwing the large block and knocking over half your equipment. The number of pieces of equipment that get knocked over seems like a good metric for cartridge power.
I had the privilege of being on the range when the Boarder Patrol had their annual requalifications ! They usually duty carried. 40 s&w plus-p ammo and it was hot 🔥 ! If you were lucky they would offer their left over ammo! I can tell you for a fact the .40 s&w plus-p factory stuff is very remarkable in performance! Sadly I no longer have any of that lovely ammunition left ! Sold the gun to one of my chiefs in the Navy ! Then bought another. 357 magnum lol! I prefer wheel guns but the .40 and .10mm are very versatile and can take care of business when properly loaded! To each their own!
These tests were awesome. Great video. Love seeing performance results from ammo that is available in common self defense calibers. Fantastic shooting on the steel too. 👍🇺🇸
Thank you very much
Honestly, this was one of the most useful videos and information I've watched of yours. Thank you.
Nice test. Sometimes the classics just work and the 125gr semi jacketed hollow point proves that.
357 is just the best really. It can do just about anything. As for semi auto I do like 40 a lot. Especially for its price. 357 SIG and 10mm are more powerful and maybe perform better or as good but they cost a lot more to shoot too.
@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549 definitely true on reloading. It’s a pretty big expense to get started but once that’s out of the way it can save money.
I would say reloading would be about the only way to go for 10mm (and 44 magnum too). That way you for sure are getting 10mm performance. A lot of factory loads are basically just 40 caliber performance unless you buy the higher end stuff.
I carry 357 Sig and train with 40. The muzzle rise is comparable.
The price for 10 vs 40 is to close to make a difference imo anymore imo . A few weeks ago I got some 40 for 17$ and some 10mm for 18$ and some change .
Outstanding test and I love the new protocol of with and without denim. If I could make one request it would be a somewhat more frequent replacement of your first 3 inch block. I like it when I can see how much travel it took before the bullet starts to expand. Yes, I am being incredibly picky. Overall I always love your ammo tests.
I guess I don't fully understand. I used older gel, getting clearer would require buying new blocks and cutting them just for that.
@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ I am only picking details so if it stinks economically, it probably isn't worth doing. I have been looking at different bullet designs lately, and they can vary a lot in how much they penetrate prior to expansion. Some start expansion within the first inch and some take several inches before they start. Obviously not the most important consideration when choosing ammunition, but it is another thing I like to see in the mix.
The 9mm had the biggest wound channel. That Corbon stuff has a record of being powerful. I read a personal story of a guy who shot an intruder with that same round and almost went completely through him. Just barely stopping short of his backside.
Corbon is all I've used in my auto's or my wheel guns for years, it's the original hot stuff.
Wish corbon would fire 🔥 back up...used to make NASTY fragmenting Sierra rounds...9mm 115 grain +p would always clock over 1300fps out of glock 19
The late James Yeager of TN said Cor Bon was sold by Peter Pi & the ammunition QC went ⬇️. I used to carry Cor Bon PowRball in my spare mags, M&P Shield 9mm 2010s. Now, 2023 I use bonded Golden Saber or Federal HST +P 124gr.
@@DavidLLambertmobile the Federal HST is always solid.
Hey man, just wanted to say I love your videos! I picked up my first carry revolver, a taurus model 65 4 inch in 357 magnum a few weeks ago (along with a custom IWB holster from Craft Holsters that I HIGHLY recommend, they were the only ones I could find that even make them, but the gun is completely hidden, super comfortable and easy to pull and the holster is great quality) and started checking out your videos to decide what ammo to carry, and your videos have been a godsend! The tests you do are miles beyond what most do, and I love the real world stuff you add in like the mdf and denim because it can completely change how a round acts. Big thanks for all the videos you do, you've definitely got a new subscriber!
You do some different kind of experiments, I wish you had a LOT more subscribers, because certainly you deserve it, thank you for your content!
I'm impressed you caught that on video. Starting at 5:09 gives a first-person perspective of what it is like being shot by a .357 Mag. Seeing Gun Sam watching you collapse to the ground and black out.
The look of disbelief on his face was priceless. The .357 rocked, literally and figuratively. Hope there was no permanent damage to the equipment.
I'm absolutely a fan of both the 357 and the 40. My two favorite rounds.
This testing supports my views from my time in law enforcement. The only benefits to 9 mm in my day were capacity. Many departments were carrying anemic 38 special rounds in 357 revolvers, because they were scared of law suits for over penetration damage. The 9 mm was still very weak, but gave you triple capacity. 40 and 357 have real stopping power, so many guys went to departments that allowed those, for their own safety and security.
I remember back in the late 80s and 90s I would have the corbon 38+p in my carry rotation for my sp 101 snubby. One thing I remember is the pretty large fireball it would create. Recoil was not bad but that fireball at night made me reconsider
My first DA revolver in 1993 was a stainless Ruger DAO snub .357mag. 2 3/4". I mostly used the "cool" Magsafe SWAT .38spl +P+ rounds. Magnum rounds in the SP101 were rough! 💥
@@DavidLLambertmobile lol. I used the magsafes too. I remember they looked a little like a cookie cutter. They had absolutely no recoil at all
Thanks for the great videos you put up. Love your videos because they always proved my point on my favorite calibers 40 S&W and 357sig you can never go wrong with either calibre. 😉
Thank you and thanks for watching!
40 is the correct answer vs human sized questions.
Once again, old school law enforcement rounds are best. Love the .357 and .40!
Old school is 38 special
@@FoulPet Another decent round.
@@dangerman007 I use 38 + P for home defense. I live in an apartment building so I think .357 MAG would be too much. Love my GP100
Just subscribed. I've been watching your videos for a year or so. Great channel/great work/great info. I like the adult, straight forward all testing and no big BS personality showtime feel of your channel. Can't believe that you don't have more subscribers. I'm an old school .45 acp (with 230 grain hydra-shoks) and .357 (Remington 125 grain JHP) for self-defense kinda guy; have been for many years (like 30? yikes!). I go to 230 grain ball in my CZ-97 or 180 grainers in my 357 when backpacking in bear/mountain lion territory.
Thanks a lot!
I carry 180 grain Buffalo Bore hard cast in my 357 in spring time here in Black bear country.
@@nathanlambshead4778 That's the best round for black bears, IMO. That said, I'm a little shy about Buffalo Bore 357 these days. About 6 months ago I was testing their 158 grain jacketed HPs - the full power load - out of a 3 inch barrel S&W model 65-2 (an old CT state trooper investigator's hand-in). After six or seven rounds, the cylinder froze up and wouldn't turn. I had to knock the cylinder open and use a wooden dowel to ram out the spent cases. Once they were out, some of them were so expanded that I couldn't slide them back in. Looked to me like a clear case of over-pressure. I've put a couple hundred rounds of other manufacturers' full power loads through that revolver and never had a problem (yes, the gun was very clean - I'm thorough about that). I didn't have any issues with 20 or so rounds of BB 125 grain JHP full power loads I had fired a week prior. Maybe it was just a bad batch of 158 grainers, I don't know. Just concerning to me. I use Federal 180 grain JHPs. A little slower, but I think they'd do the job on our South West black bears, which are smaller than those back East.
@@erichavedisian2655 Interesting. I only bought 2 boxes of 20. One for my 357, (ex trooper 2.5 inch 19-3) and one for my wife's 38 spcl snubby (158 grn hard cast +P) They each shot a couple fine, and cases looked ok. Otherwise I never use them except for carry at that time. No need to put any of our guns through that kind of pressure on a regular basis. If I was going to use something else, it would still be hard cast semi wadcutter though, not HP. I know Double Tap and Underwood both make good loads for it.
@@nathanlambshead4778 I'm sure it's ok. I'm just being paranoid. I haven't heard of anyone else having the issues that I experienced. I checked. Like I said, maybe I either got a bad lot of the 158s and/or it's a combo of that ammo and my gun.
Nice demo. I don't think you could really go wrong with any of those rounds!
Except 9mm.
This is why I carry the 40, only.
This channel is gold
my 2 favorite cartridge calibers, one for semi-auto handguns and the other one for revolver handguns, ie; .40 s&w and .357 magnum
For expansion nothing beats the 40 S&W but for hitting the target like a semi going 100mph nothing beats the .357 Magnum. In one of Marshall and Sanow two books there is a report of the result of Fairburn asking Police depts. to send him their shootings in calibers 9mm, .357 Magnum, .38 Special and .45. The results he said show the .357 used 2-3 shots, the .45 2.7 shots, .38 Special 3.6 and 9mm 5.5 shots. % by caliber was 9mm 47%, .38 Special 57%, .45 61%, .357 Magnum 78%. It would be of great interest if a similar test could be done today given how much more crime there is than when Fairburn did his test in 89/90. Their books also show results of other agencies testing ammo, not just the FBI so get these books from Amazon and enjoy!
I carry 2 SW J frame .357 Magnum revolvers on me at all times. Excellent cartridge 👍🏻🤠
Your videos are the most thorough and interesting reviews in the whole wide worldweb.
That. 357 is a great camera stopper
That camera gave us a POV of what the bad guy sees after the .357 lol, great video keep up the content
Great video! Thanks!
I have been using the CorBon 115 gr loads in 9mm for many years. They have been very hard to find recently. Picked up 2 boxes at a gun show. The Sierra bullet used has been changed. I was a bit worried about that as Sierra makes ammo using that new bullet that does not give good results in the gel. Velocity is around 1000 fps and showed little expansion. The same bullet you tested showed good expansion so I am relieved. Sierra has since changed the bullet again making the hollow point bigger. It seems to be OK in the gel at a bit higher speed with the new ammo they make.
Last I heard Evan Marshall was carrying a 9mm with the Super Vel 90 gr bullet from the new company.
I was only allowed to use the 9mm for work but I always thought the 40 S&W with the 135 gr Cor Bon would be better.
Thanks a lot!
👍 love it. On paper, 9mm and .40 are mostly identical ballistics, (BUT)
The .40 is a heavier/larger chunk of lead. That's where that stopping power comes from. 9mm mostly pokes holes through everything...
Hi Sam, great video as usual. The reality as to why all the law enforcement agencies have gone to 9 mm is due to the FBI report stating why they were going back to the 9 mm. What a lot of people missed in that report is that the FBI stated that they were not saying that the 9 mm was the best cartridge for law enforcement. They admitted that they went back to the 9 mm because they have a lot of female agents and small statued male agents and they can shoot the 9 mm better as the cartridge has very little recoil. The agency I spent 25 years with, Arizona DPS, I carried my trusty 357 Magnum till 1986 when I was forced to choose a SIG 9 or 45. I chose the 45. Ten years later we went with the 40. A few years ago they went back to the 9. There was no reason to go back to the 9 except for political correctness. Today's cops miss 80% of their shots in a gunfight and that is with a 9. I would not be surprised if the FBI came out with a report stating that the best cartridge is a 22 or 25 auto in order to meet the demands of constant lowering of standards.
Super valuable decision making data. Thank you for helping us with your insight & interpretation of the data.
One thing I always here in the caliber debates/wars when 9mm enters the conversation is all of those studies and such produced by the FBI regarding modern bullet technology and etc boosting 9mm's performance. People seem to forget those same advancements get applied across nearly every common caliber. This goes to show that .357 and .40 S&W despite their negative critics really do achieve the goals they were set out for.
@Spectacular Spectacular Yet for all it's advancements it still falls short of the goals it tries to achieve. Every major JHP design change in the last 30 years has applied to .40 S&W and .45 ACP in addition to 9mm. Nearly every major design in handguns if it's of note has applied to all 3.
The only area right now we are seeing 9mm be the most popular is in small compact carry guns which is nice and all but there's not been a major development in a full size service weapon that exclusively applies technology wise to 9mm alone.
So yes, the 9mm and all it's wonder magic fairy dust is a cool story because it's just that. A story people tell themselves to sleep easier at night.
Great video. It justifies why I also would reach for either my 40 or 357 when I hear a bump in the middle of the night.
What about the red-headed 357Sig, it hardly ever gets no love😥
I've watched probably a dozen videos on here in the last two days, looking for solid data to compare .40 penetration with the others, and this is the best video that I've seen so far.
My main question has been whether or not .40 over-penetrates like I believe 9mm does, to see if .40 might be a more viable carry option for this reason. I did NOT expect to see .45 ACP penetrate so much more than .40--or to see .357 mag NOT over-penetrate in the gel.
Great job!
Excellent test! That's, at least in part because your results and analysis agree with my thoughts on the "caliber wars." I'm glad that you took the time and effort to meet the challenge. I've remained a fan of the .40 even after the FBI evaluation that supported the 9 mm. I didn't put faith in the FBI report. I still don't. When gun shopping, I've found that used .40 pistols cost a lot less than 9mm pistols, as well!
Keep on with your excellent work.
Awesome I'm carrying .40 I just switched to right now as seen recent and upcoming vids I've done on subject. That was under velocity so assuming it's a newer batch since Pi sold company. Carbons been made in like 3 states so check the box or did u get it direct from their website? The 230 hrydashock was the round back then at least it didn't shrink and guessing sometimes real world light clothing LA etc you got inbetween your two tests. Ayoob used to carry in his G30. I know one asp vid good guy .45 shot BG expecting he would evaporate but hit him to stomach no effect...re aimed 2nd shot chest guy fell like bricks think it was lucky cns shot. Let's make .40 great again lol!
.40 s&w is the ideal cartridge caliber, but 180gr was always too heavy for the .40 s&w, great for the 10mm auto though, between 135gr minimum and 165gr maximum parameters is best, with 155gr/150gr bullet weight being ideal
Wussies can't handle the recoil though.
I got from cheaperthandirt and I believe the tracking originally said Texas
Real world shooting data also backs this up. 40 S&W has a NOTICABLY higher 1 shot stop rate in real shootings. Not sure why so many consumers have gone back to 9, but I'll stick with what actually neutralizes threats.
People love to hate the 40, but they cant argue that when it hits it works. 9mm works when all circumstances are ideal, and you hit vitals. 40 you have more room for error. And, Im pretty sure i can shoot my 40 better than most of the 9mm commandos keyboard warrirors. Thanks for another great video.
Great video and great shooting as always. My go to carry is either xds .40, or my .327federal revolver
Overall really good results on all of them. 45 doesn't shrink but it doesn't get as large as the expanded bullets.
357 magnum & 40 are beast mode. 9mm isn't a slouch. Thanks
Never had issues with 185gr .45 ACP HST's expanding in .45's with 3.5 to 5 inch barrels. Penetrates deep enough to pass IWBA protocol. JHP design matters with certain calibers.
@@Predalien195 Thanks. Good to hear. Happy New year
Great test, Sam. Thank you for ALL your efforts to put out these ballistic test! Happy and safe New Year.
Thank you, happy new year.
NIce! I have those SJHPs and the 135 grain Corbon. I also found a 50 round box of 180 grain HSTs in my safe today.
RING that steel! Just what I was hoping to see from 40 S&W and the 357 cartridge
I have a few 9mm’s but I’m SO partial to .40s&w and .45acp! You just can’t go wrong with either. The 9mm caliber comes in 4th (behind .357 mag).
POWERFUL .357 Magnum! 🧟♂️ 💥🔫
Definite zombiestoppers.
GREAT VIDEO. If you get lead into the boiler room with any one of these the skell is in trouble. Most folks like to quote all the tables and all that; sometimes the more things change the more they stay the same.The bloodiest war in our history laid out how many guys with cap and ball revolvers and PURE LEAD bullets at what are mostly normal velocities even for today. Now we have these "Manstopper" rounds and modern guns.
Outstanding video. Thank you for all the hard work you do for all. Happy New Year.
I have shot enough "things" with the Remington 125gr SJHP to say I believe it is a 96% stopper! Explosive and destructive like no other handgun round I've ever seen!
Here a few months back academy here in San Antonio had 100 round boxes of the remington 125grain sjhp for 70 bucks a box , MIND YOU I HAVEN'T SEEN IT ON THE SHELF SINCE WALMART SOLD AMMO...
I bought 5 boxes , haven't seen it on the shelf in academy since
@@bigandy2109 I've got a pretty good stock of it....
@@bigandy2109 I shoot a lot of it from my Coonan which picks up over 100fps over my 5" 686
@John Coleman I keep my 4inch GP100 loaded with the remington 125 SJHP , it's definitely a devastating round
Interesting - So because the 9mm JHP and 45 ACP JHP fill with denim, they don't expand and thus penetrate deeper but don't leave much of a permanent wound channel. Will have to compare these results with say the fluted Underwood bullets in 9mm and .45 ACP - which I think you also tested. Thanks for all these informative videos!
I loved my G27, carried it for years ran thousands of rounds through it. My woods gun (I hardly ever go into the woods any more) is a duty size XDM .40....However, I did step down to the tiny G43 9mm for daily carry.
I appreciate when you mention “felt recoil”, comparing one cartridge to another, since most of us don’t have access to multiple calibers it’s helpful information. Thanks
I saw some 357 ammo on the shelf of my local shop. It was called Boar Hunters by Buffalo Bore. No lead, just copper. It has ridiculous numbers. 1700 fps, 800 lbs energy. I had never heard of them, let alone fire them. Whoa Nellie! They were a bit salty on price, but woe betide the fool that enters my garden (or whatever the saying is) More than a man stopper, it is an everything stopper. I had to train myself not to do the anticipation flinch while pulling the trigger. I fired them from my Ruger 357 Mag with the 4" barrel and SS finish, so I have some mass and weight to absorb some of that massive force. God save your hand if you tried it with a light weight snub nose, like the Ruger LCR or S&W AirWeight series. But that get's my vote for man stoppers
I never heard of them either. I did test their 125 gr .357 Mag with an XTP and in my 4.125" barrel was getting an average of 794 ft lbs energy.
Anyone who thinks the M&S didn't know what they were talking about didn't spend much time on the street with an agency that allowed a lot of different calibers and ammo to be used...
I still choose 40 for my primary caliber. In the winter, when its easier to conceal more on your waist, i like to carry my 686+ as my primary, and use my g27 as the secondary/reload. 357 at 4oclock and 27 horizontal-ish at 7.
An ugly truth many don’t want to talk about is, not all LEO’s are shooters. Too many LEOs simply carry a gun because it’s part of the uniform. They only shoot during mandatory qualification/training times, and their scores show. The 10mm loaded to Norma spec is a fantastic “manstopper” envisioned by the late COL Jeff Cooper (USMC, Ret.) over his beloved.45. The FBI adopted it, but many couldn’t shoot it well. Ultimately, the .40 came around and still, too many couldn’t shoot it. I moved on from that career before the 9mm was touted to be “just as good.” I’d bet that there are too many who can’t shoot that well - even with standard pressure ammunition. Now, we’re seeing many OISs where LEOs are mag dumping or expending over ten rounds (hits) on one person to stop the threat (excluding close contact brain shots etc.). That was simply not the case with the .40 when I was on the job. Like anything else, one has to practice to be good at something… in this case, shooting. There’s no magic cartridge that will make someone a good shot without continued practice…maybe the .22 short? Lol
Having said all this, seems caliber trends start with the FBI and what LEOs carry (because they always carry what is “best,” right?) No, they carry what is good (enough), shootable for non-shooters (pass elementary qualification courses of fire) and their budget allows (including repeated qualification attempts to get all qualified). People tend to buy what “they” chose only to realize they have to actually practice to shoot well, and the 10mm “kicks too much.” It doesn’t. I just facilitated training for a new security team in my area. Sad how many couldn’t shoot their 9mm handguns all that well… and my State POST course of fire is old as dirt designed for revolvers, and they still couldn’t “pass” that. They loved my 10mm 180 gr. FMJs (~1,250 fps.) smacking steel! Maybe once y’all can handle the 9, then you may step up to the 10.
A very good and informative video. Well hell, it's just as simple as that.
Good and very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. Also, very nice fast shooting. I just picked up a lower cost 4" .357 today, will have to see if I can hit anything with it. Happy New Year!
Thank you, happy new year.
45 acp is like a 45 Long Colt and both are very effective. People don't like 45 because the recoil and its loud. I like 45 just fine.
.40 S&W is a great round. Loads of power and more than accurate when you learn to handle the snap. Problem is it's hard on barrels. Maybe my S&W had a soft barrel but I went from 2" groups when it was new to dinner plate sized groups after about 3K rounds. The pressure is just hard on guns in general but a great round. The .357 has been the king for 90 years and i don't see that changing anytime soon.
@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549 Did all that. Looked at the rifling with a bore camera or what was left of the rifling. The barrel was plain shot out. Traded it on for a G17 and never looked back.
40 S&W has the same pressure like 9mm. 9 mm+p has even more!
The Marshall/Sandow tests were done over thirty years ago, when bullet design, and technology were not as advanced as today's cartridges. Plus, one of the most effective semiautomatic cartridges, the .357sig was brand new, and was not tested. I think it should have been in this CZcams video. Since the advancement of 9mm, it has been deemed an effective round, equal to .40 SW and .45acp, and it's lower cost, is now, "in style." I have heard rumors, that the 40 SW may be on its way out. Many Highway patrol agencies have replaced the .357sig round, with 9mm. My opinion is .357 magnum revolvers, and .357sig appear to be very effective with mid torso hits. Those two would be my choice.
While bullet technology and .357 Sig are indeed great, I don't agree they should have been in this video. I am going by the list, and that list was made in 1992.
I was in bond recovery around 20 years ago I've seen the old 9mm hydro-shock go through a leather coat and stick in the wall.
I recently bought a 357 4” and I love it. Very easy to shoot super accurate.
I also recently bought a 10mm and so far I can’t shoot it worth anything.
The 357 obviously dumped a large amount of energy in a short amount of time. That's what you need to stop a fight. You might as well go all in, either a 357 SIG or 357 mag pushing a 125gr bullet at over 1400 fps.
Rather have a round not expand and go 16 inches than expand and go 6.
So, in 1999 the Texas state troppers did a study on officer shootings. The goal was to find the round that provided the most "one shot stops" in the departments history. It was the 155 grain Federal Hydra-shock in 40 S&W. Second was the Winchester 124 grain JHP in .357 mag. Pretty sure that was in a Guns & Ammo magazine.
I'm not aware of this data. I've been around guns since the 1980s. I've read many in depth articles by Massad Ayoob, Marshall & Sanow(which some have later discredited). I know the FBI & the firearms unit as well as Jim Cirello of the US Customs-FLETC reviewed several brands, calibers. Cirello, retired NYPD ran a elite stake out squad & had several MOSs(member of service) shootings. I'd add; Ayoob noted a use of force event: Texas DPS 1990s era where a new state trooper fired 1 .357sig round into a truck cab & ended a threat. His DPS partner used a 8 shot P220 .45acp, 8x with 0 effect!
@DL Lambert it was in a magazine article from the late 90's (98-99). May have been American Handgunner or Guns & Ammo. Back then, I had a subscription to all of them.
Yep 40 gets the job done, in an auto loader. Let's just say it's my first choice. Because of all the variables. However I do like the 357 Sig. And the 327 Federal. But I'm set up for Smith & Wesson 40. Great round so I'm going to go with it. I do love the 357 though
Great test. I'm a big fan of the 40 and the 357
The falling camera 😂😂
Yes. First person perspective of being shot with a .357 Mag.
I never shot a 40, but totally agree on the others! My go to is 357.
Very impressive expansion on the 40. .86"! The 357 thought it was in a gel block displacement test. 600 ft-lbs energy dumped in ~12 inches with light fragmentation. It's on the verge of performing like a big varmint round.
*Those CORBON 135gr .40S&W are nooooooo joke.*
*From back in the day, even till NOW.*
*Those things WRECK.*
I had never really considered the .40 until the last few videos where you talked about it. Love the 1911 but limited in capacity, for single stack, like a revolver. Going to have to look more into the 40's
Yet to see a boring video! Happy New Year and keep us informed in 2023.
Thank you, happy new year.
You can go back to the 1986 FBI shoot out when they go to the 10mm then the 40 and back to the 9mm. I know bullet tech has improved but it looks like the more things change the more it stays the same sometimes.
Indeed. The switch back to 9mm today is similar to when LE was loading .38 Special in their .357 Mag revolvers. As good as some rounds are, the recoil of those rounds can be difficult for a number of people to handle.
40 is probably the best all-around caliber.
The people that complain about recoil load 9mm to +P+ specs and then say 40 is snappy.
50,000 +++ Subs Great Job !!!
Happy New Year Gun Sam and family 👍🇺🇸
Thanks it is very helpful in my selection of SP ammo.
Again, can't go wrong with either .40 S&W OR .45 ACP. Either gives you the "knock down power" you need using fewer rounds to eliminate the threat. 9mm isn't bad but, I find more rounds are needed to eliminate the threat as opposed to both .40 S&W and .45 ACP. If I get a choice, I'm choosing one of the calibers with a "4" behind the decimal point.
Correct
What is "knockdown power"? You should tell that to the heirs of Trooper Mark Coates, whose death was captured on his dash camera when, after dumping 4 rounds center mass into an assailant, the guy returned fire with a 22lr NAA mini-revolver. Driver walked off 4 38spl rounds (potentially even .357, the trooper's revolver was a 357) to the chest, the trooper collapsed and died on the side of the road, from a plain Jane 22 round nose... worry less about mythological "stopping power" which LEO studies on caliber comparisons have concluded "is simply a myth", and worry more about being able to put rounds on target accurately and quickly.
@@JJ_SDWR wrong
@@JJ_SDWR State LE at that time was carrying 158 grain . 38 hollow points. The assailant with the . 22 magnum was extremely obese. His shot hit Coates under the arm where his body armor wasn't covered. The gun fight was at close quarters after Trooper Coates had been knocked down by a shove.
@@JJ_SDWR A few things to note. One, get the story straight. Your account of events isn't accurate which makes your point useless. Two, shot placement is key. If you don't know that, you shouldn't have a firearm much less be allowed to carry one. Third, "knock down power" is not a myth!!! Try the term "energy" if "knock down power" gives you the willies.
5:10 POV: Gun Sam just capped yo azz w the .357 😣 ☠️