We both almost died...now what??
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
- After both Mark and I had near death experiences, we've been contemplating life a lot. What is next for us? Where are we putting our efforts? Help us out and tell us what you think.
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YES! Buy the Albatross! That would be the coolest project yet, by far!
By a Grumman duck as well. It is also a great amphibious plane.
i always wanted to do the same! but for time beeing I only managed to build a RV-8 😂 And now a Family.. Thus it would be great to see you doing it!
... and make your brother to buy PBY Catalina
This is one of my favorite airplanes
I had this same idea and was sharing it with a friend a few months ago! I would LOVE to see this build!
Flying has become a rich man's game. That is THE BIGGEST obstacle for most to get in to aviation. New aircraft are unobtainium for the average guy and because of this, quality used aircraft prices are either very high or the aircraft needs a lot of work. Even in the Homebuilt market, kits prices are relatively high. Yes, a lot of people are building but not nearly as many as had been. Years ago, I started building an RV-6A. It was one of the most affordable kits out there. Now, the tail kit costs as much as most of the full kit I started with. I had to sell mine because my eyes started to go bad. I've gotten past that and they are great now but I started looking to get back in to it and even ultralight kits are more than what it used to cost to build a nice homebuilt kit. I'm now looking at PPG or powered paragliders because it will get me back up in the air at a price I can afford. In my opinion, one of the best things you could do with your vast aviation and engineering knowledge would be to develop a reasonably priced entry level plane, You'd enable many more pilots to get flying and stay flying or get back in to flying. Many get started but the cost of aviation in general drives them back out. Old, affordable planes become unaffordable because of the cost of maintaining an old, used airplane.
One more thing, you keep talking about getting new pilots into flying. Why not also focus on getting guys that used to fly back in to it. There is a vast wealth of experienced pilots out there that would probably love to get back in to it and pass on their knowledge if they had a reasonable way. Don't just look to the future but look to the past to create a new future.
I used to be in the EAA until I sold my RV-6A. I left because I couldn't bear to look at all the kits that were being built knowing that I had to give up on mine. I was a member of AOPA. The reason I left was that even though they did a lot for aviation, I felt they were not focusing on the little guy. I'd look at their magazine full of new airplanes and fancy avionics and realized that can't be sustainable. Anyways, not sour grapes. I'm not jealous of those that can afford those but I'm sad for those that can't and therefore can't enjoy the freedom and joy of aviation.
Food for thought: Flying gliders is still affordable and has a community of passionate aviators to connect with. For weekly flying fun, I find no better way to get in the air.
I feel the same about AOPA, and also the financial cliff that one must climb to get into aviation. I wanted to fly since I was a kid, but couldn't afford it until I was able to get in via light sport.
these two are very very much "rich men" so I doubt they have much of an obstacle bro. lol
I'm not rich, but I got my private a few years ago. It isn't cheap that's for sure, but it is obtainable.
speedy dad, i highly recommend powered parachute, i fly one, and its low cost, low speed, and the relaxing joy is well worth the 10 or 12 grand to enter the sport. No licensing, no inspections, no insurances, and great satisfaction, especially for older pilots.
Everyman's affordable airplane is the Patey sized challenge in my mind. Hard to quantify because it's different for everyone. But I can think of some good qualifications:
1 - Hangars are expensive. Trailerable, and make the trailer part of the support system for the plane. A 'portable shop' designed to support the aircraft, even disassemble major components
2 - 6 seats with tradeoffs in baggage weight, etc. Physics only goes so far
3 - Modular engine systems that are easily maintained
4 - Possibly inline twin for safety?
5 - A dramatically less expensive engine option - biggest challenge
6 - Printable components - make use of "maker" technologies such as plasma tables and 3D printing for most components
7 - 1,000 nm range
8 - 150 knots or greater
9 - Turbocharged for safety even in the flatlands. Climbing over weather becomes a possibility
10 - Dirt simple systems
I've been working on this for years. Lots of ideas.
Regarding the modular engines - I really want to see hybrid aviation. If you have a generator, batteries capable of keeping you in the air for *maybe* 30 minutes, and a pair of electromotors, you get a system that is almost impossible to suddenly lose an engine on. Electromotors can be pretty oversized for redundancy if one fails by some miracle. A genset that is scaled for some reasonable climb will give you range and backup for batteries while being lighter than an aviation-grade engine scaled for takeoff power. Batteries make sure that your genset is not a single point of failure, giving you the power boost for takeoff and the time needed to make the turn of death when needed.
I’m a retired Dual Rated Marine Corps pilot, with fixed wing ATP and 10,000 total hours, CFI/CFII. Worked the commercial helicopter business after the USMC for Bristow. Would LOVE to own my own plane, but that goes to my 3 comments:
1. Precious little is going right in GA.
2. What is going wrong? One word… lawyers…. As a 25 year active member of the Florida Wing CAP, I gradually became very disillusioned with the bureaucracy, over regulation, and paperwork requirements place on an “all volunteer organization”.
Costs for anything aviation related are at least 10x what they should because of “liability”…. It’s positively ridiculous. Involvement in GA seems to be reserved for the wealthy, and by that I mean zero malice toward folks like you guys. You earned every single nickel that you have imho.
3. I’m a member of CAP (retired now), former member of AOPA, and Life Member of the Marine Corps Aviation Association.
My responses pretty much paralleled yours. Aircraft cost, avionics, fuel, maintenance, insurance, and parts. I was CAP many years ago, I soloed in 1967 - in a C-150 the summer after I finished high school, at Mettetal airport in Plymouth Mich. I realize that inflation is off the charts, but you could buy a C-172 for an affordable price. The FAR's have reached epic elephantine proportions, and likely as you say written by lawyers and no doubt bureaucrats who don't know an elevator from an aileron. It would seem that perhaps the intent is to make it so expensive and so burdensome that general aviation is driven from the sky. Darn I wish I had the answers. Flying is in my blood, most of my career has been aviation oriented (03, USAF, but not flying- (Intelligence)) dad (and his crew) flew a B-17 out of the UK across the channel in 1944, and there is a picture of a very little me sitting in an F-86 with dads helmet down on my shoulders! I love flying but its now "unobtanium" for me, and I have self grounded as my eyes are not in good shape. I know that Mike and Mark are doing everything that they can to inspire.
Excellent points
My big request would be to help out the private airports that have a public use certificate, we are loosing airports all around the country! Certification standards and airport equipment is INSANELY expensive, making the business model tough! Sharp business savy folks like you could be a godsend to hundreds of local airports around the country!
Came here to say this exact thing. It’s insane how EVERY single airport within 100miles of me has NO hangar space. I have a citabria 7gcbc. Give me a grass strip and a cheap metal t hangar and I’d be happy. Even the private airports are full. Please!!! More hangar space.
I manage a small airport in Ohio and is really tough to keep the hangar prices reasonable when there the only source of income for a general aviation airport. I have so many ideas for how to bring in customers but find constant roadblocks with the owner who isn’t a pilot . It’s a struggle
I also had this idea! I hate to see the smaller airports going under. And get turned into houses.
2) help with sport pilot training it’s not easy finding instructors that want to do sport pilot training
3) back to my first one the county airports also need help keeping funding coming in for up keep.
4) medical reform for the faa, I have a medical for driving semis and have no problems with keeping it but can’t get a faa medical due to past medical issues and the faa wanting records that I can’t get anymore due to doctors not keeping them over 20 years
Member of EAA, COPA, ORAA. The slothfully slowness of the STC approval process. It's gotten slower since Covid in 2020 and now they've revised it to be slower yet. How can advances be made with such a hindering bloated system, even having a complete RTCA DO160 passed Series of testing. Should be a slam dunk at that point, especially having done a few 337 field approvals too.
The only sustainable way for the industry to flourish and the airports to make money is increase supply of hangar space
These 2 dudes are not human. How do I/we all get a fraction of the energy that feeds them and gives them this positivity.
Do you do know that Mark is a lifestyle coach/motivational speaker?
@@weschaeffler88 That doesn't surprise me.
ESTP Personality type. Good parenting. Good schools. (E.g. Good Philosophy).
kratom
Well their drive for hard work and success are huge motivators as they're built that way. And the multi multi millions they make off their success are motivators as they want more and aren't happy sitting stagnant.
So glad you're both ok! Absolutely yes to the Albatross!!
First off, I'm greatful you're both still alive! Your passion and joy for your work is contagious.
If you really want a BIG project, I have an idea! With the shortage of mechanics, especially in general aviation, I would like to see an online, or at least partially online, A&P training program. Lectures can easily be delivered through virtual classrooms or pre recorded. Pre recording has the benefit of editing for accuracy. Some labs could be completed in a garage or home workshop by sending materials to students. The students would then record themselves completing the work. Teachers would then review the videos and when it's done correctly, the student sends the material back to the school. This would work well for some smaller items about the size of a magneto. The bigger parts and projects that require more specialized tools would still require students to travel to a training facility. Training facilities could be either a centeral campus, or a partner school that teaches the hands on portion of this program. Alternatively, build a curriculum and license it to schools. A completely different way to accomplish this would be to use an online model to facilitate obtaining an A&P license through experience. Perhaps the student buys an airplane to be restored and pays a membership fee to have licensed mechanics advise and supervise the work. I think the hardest part would be satisfying the FAA because they tend to be risk averse.
Mark Patey for Congress! I almost joke, but honestly I see a lot of challenges that come from the FAA and a lack of ability for the administrators of the FAA to relate and build relationships with GA. I think there is a lack of communication and they rely on confrontational ways of meeting the goals of safety in aviation. I truly believe that if the FAA was a solid partner with general aviation, and not just an enforcement agency, safety would increase and it would be easier to lead people into GA.
Outstanding idea! America needs can do men in Washington!
Mark Patey for the next president and CEO of AOPA.
Ahh, you’re all awesome 🤣👍. Thanks for the kind words.
@@801pilotI have a valiant idea to maximize impact. I just wish I knew an email address to send my ideas to you guys.
Military Veterans. Millions of hours of talent that have since fluttered.
Gonna try and find a direct line to call you guys. I have big ideas.
Mike Patey for president
When James Bond fantasizes about who he wants to be, he pictures Mike Patey.
Mark looks much faster, without a gallbladder.
The aviation community is lucky to have these two. Everyone is fortunate that these two are still well. Much love.
@pfsmith007: what Bond's Q was to gadgets, Mike Patey is to general aviation.
Guys, First of all thank you for all you do for GA! Been watching Mike for years and have had the pleasure of meeting both of you at Oshkosh and Sun And Fun. With your scary incidents we thank God you are both still with us! #1 Saving lives. Every year we loose way too many pilots, friends, and entire family’s in GA. The saddest thing is that so many of those accidents are totally preventable. I know this all hits very close to home with you both recently loosing Creighton King. I actually met him a couple times over the last several years and had spoken to him just last year at Oshkosh. What a great guy he appeared to me in just the little I knew about him. Tragic loss. I have been flying for nearly 25 years and believe Creighton is the first person I actually knew that had lost their life in an aviation accident. I don’t have the answers, and I do know there are great resources out there, such as the Air Safety Foundation and others, but we need to figure out something more. Something better, more effective, what ever how ever, to keep from having more accidents and deaths that could be prevented. Better training, better conditioning, more awareness, what ever it takes, we need to figure out a more effective way. You know Dan Gryder. Love him or hate him, he is very motivated and dedicated to this cause, and I do believe he has helped many pilots be safer, and more prepared for when something does happen, by using his You Tube channel and speaking events sharing AQP. As you both know at sometime, that something, will happen to you! #2 Saving lives, #3 Saving lives. Just my thought on priorities. Yes there are many other issues in GA that can use attention and I am sure you will get a lot of good ideas presented here. And yes there is a lot of great things going on for GA in very positive ways! I have been a member of AOPA, EAA, and RAF, for many years. I believe they all do great things for GA, although some struggle as they become so large. And Mike, for sure build the Albatross! And make sure Kermit Weeks is following. 😁 Thanks again guys! Hope to see you and say hi at Sun and Fun and Oshkosh. Best.
YES on the Albatross!!!!!! One of my favorites. Team with Margaritaville and call it the Hemisphere Dancer II.
I agree! Phins Up!! Always! Hard to believe Jimmy is in his beach house on the moon. Hemisphere Dancer II, has such a nice ring! 🦈to the left! 🦈to the right, I'm the only girl in town!! 🌴🦜
1. GA, as a whole, is still going strong.
2. The price of entry is very high, and it can be difficult to find good flight schools that aren't crazy expensive.
3. I've been a member of AOPA for nearly 10 years now.
Y'all will never lose our attention!
Mark, we are so blessed you are still with us and keep fighting the good fight.
This world needs you both.
4 month passed fast, looking back to plane destroyed, friends lost, and lives re-lived….
All the components for a phoenix aviation/or
Phoenix albatrosssss…
Always makes us happy seeing and hearing all of your protects
Godspeed
Yours
Sergio
Hell yes to the "Patey Albatross"!!!!!!! Knowing what could happen with your Engineering god brain, I am dying to see what that turns into and long live Draco!
Wow guys… what an absolute miracle. As a paramedic, I have a very good understanding of how serious this was. I’m so thankful that you are still here with everyone, Mark. Even though I have never met either of you (yet) I care very much about y’all. Praise God for such a miracle!!!
Your bond as twins is an incredibly special thing that most of the world will never understand. My dad is a twin (his name is Mark and my uncle's name is Mike!), and to this day they still experience uncanny things and know things about each other that neither of them should rightly know, even when they're separated from each other. I have no doubt, Mike, that your voice and presence when Mark was in the ICU is what brought him back (as I'm sure you know). The presence of family can help access the deepest memories and feelings your body holds and can give you an incredible amount of strength when you need it most. This hold more true for twins than with almost any bond I have ever observed. As an observer of your life, it is an incredible inspiration to see what you and Mark have done with your families and careers. Thank you for sharing a piece of your life with us, and thank you for your continued service to your fellow man!
5 plus year member of EAA and AOPA, your third question reveals the way Mark can have the largest positive impact on general aviation. Mark should replace Mr. Baker at AOPA if and only if the board will give him the authority and support to refocus the organization to improve general aviation. The numbers and infrastructure are there, it just needs a wise leader with the right goals and motivations.
Mark, your story resonates with me. Seven years ago I went down with sepsis. I was a different bacteria but it leveled me. I was one sick puppy and the doctors told my wife I may not make it. I spent two week in hospital, but am still here. I am glad you are too.
1. There's great momentum and community building going on general aviation right now.
2. General aviation still seems to be plagued with accidents and a high incident to death ratio.
3. No association affiliations.
I'm a fan of general aviation. I've had my face pressed against the glass, looking in at all the fun, for many years. From an outsiders perspective, here are the key barriers that I, or anyone in my position, will need to overcome in order to become an insider:
•Enormous financial startup costs and significant ongoing maintenance costs.
•Sometimes the "general" in general aviation makes it difficult to decifer which camp is right for me.
•Space. Aircraft kits are just to bulky to assemble. They are overly time consuming to build so a modest privateer like myself feels pushed toward entry level ultralights and less safe decision making.
My proposal for the Patey Bros:
• Design a GA aircraft that has zero kit components, rather, only accessible materials. One that is the safest in the skies. A plane that is a true quick build. Maybe it uses advanced adhesives instead of rivets. It needs to be jaw dropping cheap ($10-$15k) all in. It needs to operate like a conventional fixed wing aircraft as an ideal time/experience builder. It should be docile and intuitive with just enough delight in flight. It absolutely must be trailer friendly for at-home storage. Lastly, it needs to be a fine looking bird, with charm and simplicity that instills confidence and pride of ownership. The Volkswagen bug of the skies.
In short, I think the greatest contribution you two could give to GA is accessibility.
Love the channel, and so glad Mark is healthy. Best regards,
Ben
I agree completely. Flying should not have to be a life-or-death decision. Better technology could reduce the chances of the pilot making deadly errors.
100% nailed it. Flying is cost-prohibitive, and when something does go wrong in the air, the death ratio shows a HUGE gap in how we've handled the evolution of aircraft vs automobiles.
I know some people dislike ballistic chutes, but if an engine blows and you aren't near a viable strip, or a rookie pilot gets into a spin they can't recover, a parachute WILL save your life. And not just your life, but in many cases will preserve your plane as well (minus repairs). It just seems like such an easy cost-saver / life-saver, I don't understand why they aren't more widespread. Cirrus gets it. Many ultralights get it. It's high time the rest of GA/LSA does too.
@@thecheesedip I don't dislike Ballistic chutes but the repack costs are horrible, the Sirrus chute is 20k to inspect and repack.
@wb6anp sounds prohibitively costly. Crash structures are passive and can be extremely light and cost effective (f1 cars), there seems to be a pursuit of lightness and efficiency that's incompatible with crumple zones, roll cages, bolstered seating. If the aircraft can be designed for passive crash protection, it becomes sacrificial in a crash scenario. I'd be quite happy to walk away from a crash if my aircraft is a total loss...if it only costs $10-$15k.
@@rickwhite2567I have about a million miles of highway driving under my belt.
Technology does not help people keep their eyes on their surroundings. Too busy watching cameras or TV's or phones inside their vehicles. Just like flight eyes out unless imc.
What needs to happen is People paying attention. Driving at resonable speeds.
people paying attention.
people having consideration for other people around them
People paying attention.
People maintaining their vehicles.
People paying attention.
In my opinion if you can't pay attention to what is going on around whatever vehicle you are in, you shouldn't be controlling a vehicle. It should be a privilege and not an entitlement.
Mike and Mark Patey are my two best HEROES! God Bless you and yours!
Thank you for everything you both do for the GA community and for helping foster excitement in aviation and STEM for not only the folks already involved, but also for the next generation! Glad you get to continue together on this journey!
1. The community is very welcoming and inclusive. I'm relatively low-time and have had nothing but positive and enthusiastic interactions with everyone I've met in the GA world. The good side of social media helping spread the enthusiasm for GA
2. The concerning growth (possibly also the dark side of social) of NIMBY efforts caused at least in part by misinformation due to a lack of understanding as well as intentionally being misrepresented due to developers wanting to take over valuable real estate. Aviation in general isn't a cheap endeavor but the most recent issues highlighted in Vegas show other threat vectors to keeping GA for everyone
3. Not quite 5 years, but a member of and supporting both EAA and AOPA
And heck YES to the Albatross!
1. Flight training is booming and manufacturers are staying in business.
2. The lack of hangar space is a problem across the country. This has caused sky high t-hangar rental rates. A Patey mission to build nice T-hangars across the country would help the industry immensely.
3. USHPA, AOPA, EAA, APA
WOW, I had no idea we almost lost Mark!! Thank God he pulled through that! Great project lineup, fellas - can’t wait to see them all.👍👍
Not being funny or anything, but why would you thank god? We should be thanking the doctors and nurses and other emergency services staff that saved him. Or Marks body for pulling through.
@@MrOvertSandStormdo you not recognize God in this story? How he pulled thru miraculously, or when the brothers talk about "what's important?"
@@jefferyg3504 No I don't. I'm pretty agnostic to atheist, so I never think about 'god'. Surely this happened through the skill and wonder of modern scientific medicine, and by the chemistry of Mark's body, which was able to recover during his time in intensive care. In this day and age, you honestly believe this was divine intervention? These are my thoughts anyway, not trying to insult anyone.
God certainly had a hand in this. You have to know that God has been and will be in chef from the beginning to the end.
@@jefferyg3504 With some, “You can lead a horse to water …” .
1) The community of GA is wholesome and welcoming.
2) The entry and financial help for blue collar working Americans. Most scholarships are based around high school/college students (which is great!) But severely limits men and women that wish to accomplish their dreams later in life. Certified low cost workshops even for the ground portion would be a immense help. Who doesn’t work with someone that says “I always wanted to be a pilot, but could never afford it”
3) I only started flying two years ago so no memberships at this time.
You guys are really the essence of what I aspire to be! You guys are talking about leaving more behind, than 'just' showing us, you having fun. I can tell you, you guys 'just' having fun - has already moved thousands of people and everybody is praising your contribution to this wonderful world of aviation!
Thank you. Thank you for everything you have done and thank you for what you are going to do in the future! If I could, I would love to contribute to your questions, but I still have my PPL waiting for me in my near future! Thank you for moving my attention into aviation, there is no doubt in my mind that it is also where I will spend a lot of my time, for the rest of my life. Much love to both you, Mike, and you wonderful brother Mark and your beautiful families!
God speed and much respect from a young guy in Denmark!!
BACK TO WORK!! 💪
I'm happy both of you are here among us! I really like the idea of the modernized "Van-Life" Albatross!
Areas to Address:
Reduce the overall costs for flying a plane-
1. Economical GA airplane power plants- The Diesel engine (EPS Aero) is a huge loss for GA.
It could have been a family of extremely reliable, reasonable engines (4-8 cyls) which could be retrofitted into older airframes / kitplanes and deliver a reasonable per hour costs of flying. Perhaps resurrect the project and figure out how to make production affordable.
Include propeller pitch control... The reduced pilot workload of a water cooled, single lever engine operation could attract new pilots.
2. A PC based Arduino/PC flight panel that is reasonably priced to be able to retrofit into older airplanes & new build kits. Something with pre-assembled wiring harnesses to make quick and fast installation for the most popular aircraft in GA.
3. Get the FAA to set a maximum limit liability for GA lawsuit awards.
All the best,
M-
Be careful we still need You guys!!!😮😢😊
My dad is a GA pilot, brother is a commercial pilot, and I am just starting flight training and building a kit experimental helicopter in parallel. My experience in GA is limited as I am just getting started. The cost of GA has been a huge deterrent for me.
1. What's going right? Without question, the community. Aviation brings people together and for the most part is filled with extremely generous individuals who are happy to share their passion and support others, whether it's taking someone up on their first flight, or helping someone with their home built. I am sure you both will get a lot of support in making GA better for everyone because we are all in this together.
2. What's going wrong?
2.1 The cost of GA has far out paced the wages in the last 20 years. My father was able to buy and fly plane as a middle class individual, but I don't think that is possible today. Light sport, and experimental kits seem to be the only real entry point, and even then, it's still pretty expensive. Reducing the regulations might make things cheaper, but at the cost of safety? I don't know what the solution is. Operating cost is huge when you consider annuals and purchasing certified parts. Not everyone should be working on their own planes, but for those who enjoy building and maintaining planes a much as we fly them, there should be a solution for those individuals.
2.2 Finding quality flight instructors. Many of them are using it for time building. Turnover is huge and the training is poor.
3. I haven't been part of an association for more than 5 years.
🙏🏼Praise God we still have you two guys still with us ……
Got my degree in Aeronautical Operations Administration in 1978 with an eye on a career in GA. Went to work for Cessna Finance Corp as an entry step. The price of aircraft was soaring every year, blamed mostly on product liability lawsuits. The market for planes was dropping. Even though I had a company 172 and was getting to pretty much make my own schedule visiting Cessna dealers, I ended up bailing out of the industry after less than four years. 30+ years of not flying, mostly due to life getting int the way, I joined a local EAA chapter and subsequently joined three other guys in an RV12 build. Sold that shortly before retiring and adjusting to living on the proverbial fixed income. A subsequent disqualifying medical development has left me scheming to acquire an ultralight plane. So, having said all that, I believe the FAA should consider broadening the UL rules to allow high enough weights for ULs to more closely align with light airplanes, ie conventional control surfaces including flaps and trim tabs, four stroke power plants for better reliability and safety, and more instrumentation. Then allow the hours flown to be counted toward a PPL. This would help alleviate to some extent the financial barrier that is contributing to the pilot shortage. Next, we need to get aviation into high schools and jr colleges to create a better awareness of career opportunities in aviation. Pilots, mechanics, aeronautical engineers, ATC personnnel will all be in short supply soon. Building interest and enthusiasm for aviation might boost interest among kids in CAP, military enlistment (which is suffering) and also the pursuit of degrees from aviation schools such as ERAU. The Pateys’ CZcams channel has my interest and enthusiasm, so my suggestion for that is to try to come up with ways to promote viewership, particularly among younger people. (I have no suggestions for how.) The aviation community is so cool to be around and involved with. The upcoming generation needs to know that so they might consider a career in aviation. In the short term, maybe consider The Mike and Mark Flying Circus fly-in and airshow promotions company to encourage local fly-ins particularly of experimental and antique airplanes as well as the broad GA fleet and anything else that flies, coordinating with local FBOs, aviation museums, and high schools and junior colleges. If interest grows, the industry may grow. It starts with awareness.
Oh, and about the Albatross. That would be cool, but my vote would have to be a PBY.
I’ve been a private pilot for about 3 1/2 years. 630 hours. Working on IR currently.
What’s going right in GA?
The freedoms to fly that we ave in America are incredible.
GA opens up so many amazing opportunities.
What’s going wrong? This list is longer.
It’s gotten cost prohibitive.
Hangars are virtually impossible to come by.
FAA medical needs a complete overhaul.
Instruction is primarily done by youngsters who are just building hours and not fully dedicated to instruction.
I’ll reiterate; it’s gotten cost prohibitive for the common man/woman to buy, fly, and maintain an aircraft.
I own a couple of businesses and do pretty well and it’s still a stretch to operate my 182. I don’t know what can be done to change that, but the barrier to entry for GA is insurmountable for many.
I am HONESTLY worried when the (Insane, Literally) government tries to take that right away from us. I'm very serious too!!!
Hi guys. A UK based guy here. I think you already give back a tremendous amount by sharing your lives, builds and aviation experiences with the world, evidenced by the comments you receive on every post I have watched over the years.
However, in the UK there is a charity called Aerobility that you might like to Google. I think something similar in the US fronted by Icons like yourselves would be huge. Just think of the joy you could bring to individuals less fortunate than ourselves. All the best to you in finding your way forward with these fantastic aspirations. You guys are amazing.
You guys are amazing! I love your thoughtfulness and drive to create.
Don't normally do this but here goes.
Skydiving, paragliding, base jumping, built an RV 12 with friends, decided to buy a plane last night (OK, few wines involved) It will probably a Sling. He is a kind of ninja in twin turbine helicopters.
3 deaths in three weeks and cancer diagnosis (including my sis is Australia) plus employee and and a friend gets you down. Your video lifted me up. Thank you.
You and your spouses need to book a holiday to Namibia. Nobody will know you and you will have the time of your life.
1) We have a shortage of A&P ... possibly sponsor people into this critical element of Aviation... help folks see this as a worthy life goal ... 2) What can you do to help us kit builders who don't have your level of knowledge and confidence complete successfully ? what seminars could you hold or workshops ? ... the kit arena is so necessary given the cost of cert. planes ... helping to grow would be wonderful. 3) Maybe become your own honor system where you award builders / Pilots with recognition having completed necessary work through your efforts. You two are amazing ... I really appreciate you and your individual and collective efforts ... thanks !
The biggest problem being an A&P is pay and the up/down cycles of aviation as a whole. I left being an A&P and went into the medical field, much better pay, never have to get skydrol in my eyes, never have to work outside in -15 to 100 degree temps, No getting stuck between the rudder pedals of a lear 35.... When I got out of A&P school McDonalds was paying more than 1/2 of the industry. In 2000 our shop rate was $55 hr for piston and $65hr for turbine work. Most auto dealerships were charging $90-130hr. Remember the old saying the only reason you can't find people is because you're not paying enough! Pay and they will come!
Its hard to survive on A&P wages these days, combined with the liability and bureaucracy it kills the passion pretty quickly. I still work in aviation, but won't be touching civilian aircraft for the foreseeable future. Even when I do, I hope its only my own homebuilt, if I ever get around to building one.
You two make me wish my brother liked me. What a joy having your best pal as a coworker, and business partner.
I think they have their faults, but their attributes is they are rational, calm, and clear-headed which augments their relationships. No doubt they're good and well meaning dudes.
yeah.. im only 23 and my bro is 25, havent talked to him in 2 years. this stuff gets me man. im just glad theyre alive though. these guys are such an inspiration
Man I wish I had a brother, it’s so cool seeing you guys just hanging out. I have identical twin daughters, I hope they stay this close as they get older.
I'm a life long aviation enthusiast. Currently a Student Sport pilot (At 57 years old I wanted to check off the bucket list item)
1. The community in Aviation is strong. As an older student pilot I have been welcomed by many local pilots, instructors and others. It's great!
2. I have a few items for this list :)
a. Cost. You know the thing. It is really expensive to learn to fly these days.
b. Medical - I have a couple of things that would require more paperwork to get my medical. I don't want to sit on the ground for 6 or more months to do that while I could be learning and flying. As a sport pilot, you only need a driver's license. I see no reason why that couldn't also be for Private pilot . Maybe VFR only or whatever limits, but I would have gone for private if it were not for the medical delays.
c. Small airports. We need to save airports. A lot of them are closing.
3. I belong and participate in my local EAA, National EAA, Eagle flights (as a ground helper) and AOPA.
As a side-note, I had all the book knowledge needed to fly. Just none of the skills. I'm getting there now. I have 33 hours now and do just fine for Light Sport. (Flying an RV12is). If I would have started at 18, it would have been easier to learn the skills, but maybe not the book stuff...
1. Whats going right in Aviation - positive social media (ex. You Both, Cletus and Dave Sparks). Whats going wrong in Aviation - the actual cost for the average citizen (license, flight time / training). Not enough people around us to support said adventure. 3. 5 year falloff is real, 3 year fall off is real, in fact 2 year falloff is most likley if your #2 is not met. You just become a spectator, ill watch and research type of person, wish i could type of person,a rc plane type of person. As close as i can get type of person.
Apologies for not having any current suggestions. I used to fly- was knocking out the last steps to get my license but got too expensive. There isn’t much you can do about that. But, I tune in because I love the content and the “get back to work drive.” Much respect to the both of you and to your families. You are truly just good people.
You guys are both incredible human beings. You should both run for president. With you in charge the country would have a chance.
I must admit, I had tears in my eyes when Mark talked about his near death experience. Good to see you're back at it!
My greatest thought about aviation where I live, Norway, is that it's extremely expensive. Not many have funds to own their own aircrafts, and the few clubs available have not that many "time share" aircrafts as I call them. You buy a piece of the craft and share all expenses on it, and have limited time to the aircraft for flying. This works, but there should be more available, and prices should be more manageable.
I really want my own motorized glider. My grandfather was a WW2 fighter pilot and one of his biggest dreams was for me to become a pilot myself. When my time came for mandatory military service, the military placed me in the Navy. (Not complaining, I've had loads of fun and it have opened many doors for me later on). But my ticket to a pilot license and the actually use for it went out the window as I kind of relied on getting on through the military.
Now, as I've become older, past my 40's and racing close to 50. I'm in a good place with family, work, financial etc. But aircrafts are still CRAZY expensive here in Norway, and gliders are a bit cheaper. And... another reason for me wanting to get a glider is... My grandfather always wanted me to start with gliders from I was 16 years old, but my parents did not approve of it. Norway is a beautiful country from both land and air, and sailing above, relaxing and "disconnect" from work is a dream for me.
So, option 2 is probably the only thing I can answer you on that can give a meaningful output.
If Mark (or both of you) start a "Time Share" aircraft leasing business to help others into getting up in the air. You could stand as the majority owner of a craft, and have spots open for others. This might be a way into getting more active pilots... Might also be a paper nightmare with lawyers, so you should consider the drawbacks as well.
PS: If I'm one of the random to get a gift. Please donate to something Children's Hospital ore something similar. I'm always donating to an organization called "Stiftelsen Sykehusbarn" here In Norway.
Thank god you’re both still with us, the world would be worse off without either of you.
Back in the early 70's my dad was seaplane fishing on a lake in Canada and came across a guy with a PBY Catalina converted into a RV/motorhome. It had a full bathroom with a gravity shower, master bedroom, and kitchen. He told my dad he was considering putting turbines on it instead of the Pratt & Whitneys, who knows what became of it? YES Build it and film IT!!!!!
Mike and Mark, your message hits home hard, both the carpe diem, and the awe of what aviation can give us. I'm a 1300 hour SEL pilot, grew up in central Alaska, dad was a government health aid worker, rescue mountaineer, glider pilot, glider instructor, CAP volunteer pilot, and had a Taylorcraft that we adventured in when I was a teen. I taught him how to snowboard when he was 65 and he became a certified instructor at 70, teaching in Utah. Sadly, he died the next year. Got my license at age 34 in a C-140 taildragger. Dad said if I could learn in a taildragger, they'd just seem like airplanes, not some exotic threat. That was some of the best advice I ever took. I helped a friend build a Glasair Sportsman, and have ended up owning and modifying two Glastars, rigging the latest one one with a T3 tailwheel and 31" Alaska Bushwheels, and touring the backcountry in my home state of Alaska.
1) I feel so privileged that I've been able to keep a license, and own two airplanes, and move freely from certified to EAB. Compared to many places, GA is incredibly open in the US. But there's a lot to do to keep it that way.
2) It's not that hard to argue that insurance has more power over us pilots than government, and that's a tough problem. I'm trying to set up my 17 year old son to learn in the same plane I learned in, a Cessna 140 -- a certified aircraft! used for training for decades -- and literally EVERYTHING is lined up to make it work, yet insurance may literally have the final say about whether he can live that dream or not. Seems pretty wrong.
2a) I think every small airplane on the planet should have calibrated audio angle of attack with at least three if not FOUR distnict audio signal levels, and the practice of landing to proper lift reserve should be integrated 100% into fundamental training for EVERY STUDENT PILOT. Landing to a well calibrated audio angle of attack keeps the pilot's eyes ENTIRELY outside the plane, automatically compensates for loading and density, and yet delivers the most consistent, safest information to the pilot to create safe landings in essentially every condition. If you need a high performance STOL landing, the audio angle of attack comes closer to guaranteeing it than anything else I've experienced. Plus, properly training the initial super-conservative AoA audio levels can be used to keep the aircraft completely out of the stall-spin zone. Distracted or simply unrefined student accidentally comes too close to spin/stall in a poorly executed pattern? first level Audio AoA comes on and student has been trained to automatically lower the nose and add power no matter what. Out of trouble just like that. I have never seen a more powerful tool for keeping landings consistently controlled and pilots safe. What if all landings by every pilot were safer? Heck, might even help with the insurance issue.
3)I'm an AOPA member and an EAA member for many years, and I've been a Young Eagles pilot for many kids, and mentored many of them into deeper involvement in aviation.
Hi Mike and Mark. First of all thank you for being aviation pioneers of our generation, ya'll are living legends. I am inspired and a big fan.
My name is Leso from South Africa. I am a certified FAA A&P+IA and private pilot.
I only have one suggestion, and it is as follows:
1. Being an Aircraft Mechanic for a good amount of years and a passionate aviator, my biggest concern and fear is a catastrophic engine failure.
I commend Rotax for the development of the new engines to help the entry flying market with new, affordable and reliable engines.
Take nothing away from the traditional engine marker like Lycoming and Continetal their engines stood the test of time but the fact is that something has to be done about the recent spike in engine failures that leads to loss of lives of the inexperienced student pilots. Yes we overhaul the engines but what is not noted or spoken about is the bad habits the engines had to endure in operation for the last 50 years. Metal has memory.
Solution. Mark and Mike, please look into building a new aviation engine and get STCs for such engines to be used on all or most of traditional trainer airplanes.
I am a member of Aviation Development Africa and EAA.
I’m glad you made it Mark. We need people like you around.
Glad you're both still here - the world would be worse off without you!
The albatross idea sounds awesome! Go for it! You guys are awesome, God bless you two!
I am glad the both of you are OK. You are an inspiration for all of us amateur builders and business owners, or at the very least to me!
As for your questions, I am most interested and hopeful in what is coming down the pipe with MOSAIC. I think expanding the Light Sport category is a great idea. I would love to see the sport category regulations include more advanced aircraft, similar to Europe, where a constant speed prop or even retractable gear are allowed. I have high hopes for what the future holds in the world of LSA's (OK, I mostly fly LSA's and both aircraft I have built/am building qualify as LSA's, so that is a particular interest of mine). Many people seem to discount the light sport arena, but I think it has a lot to offer, especially in the experimental realm. Plus, I think options like the Light Sport Repairman are a great thing, opening doors for people to be more involved with their own aircraft and helping keep costs of ownership down, making aviation more accessible to more people. It even has started a whole new business path for folks wanting to be aviation mechanics, which is great considering the world today.
The biggest concern I have is around medical certification for airmen. I am switching to BasicMed as it meets my needs, so I am happy that there has been some improvement in this arena. The issue I see is one of fairness. I know several pilots who have had medical incidents that are 'disqualifying' and lost their flying privileges with no hope for getting them back. In almost all of these cases there would be no risk at all for operating a LSA or other GA aircraft, but due to the circumstances, the FAA has denied a medical and that is that. Hard stop. Meanwhile, with a slightly different set of circumstances, I know of other pilots who still fly with virtually identical histories who can just operate under either BasicMed or the LSA 'drivers license' requirements. This raises a huge issue where someone who is more than competent and medically capable is not allowed to fly, where another, who is in the same boat, is. I would love to see someone push on the FAA to reform the medical regulations to make them more inclusive to folks who have had issues but are fully recovered and can have medical professionals back that claim. This is a huge issue and I know of several folks who have really been beaten down by the FAA on this despite full medical clearance from multiple professionals. I do understand that for a professional ATP pilot, caution needs to be taken around medical issues or conditions, but for someone wanting to fly a LSA or a 172, it's a different story.
OK, I'll get off my soap-box. As for the third question, I am a long-time EAA member (15+ years), and have visited several local chapters, and in the past was much more active in the local chapter. I am also a long-time AOPA member (also 15+ years), but not very active on that front.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do! I look forward to seeing the next big projects you guys both bring to fruition!
I, too, have had a near death issue. Started vomiting, then went to bed with a bucket. 6 days later, I wake up in recovery with a lovely nurse saying the 2 neurosurgeons went up my nose & took my swollen, bleeding with a benine tumor piturity gland out. They said I am 1 in 2.5 million that survive. I love your channel's Mike & Mark....😊
Good to hear you survived. How is your recovery doing and if i may ask how did you get to the hospital?
@@dontknow3886 helicopter a Kawasaki.
Recovery is slow. My life has done a complete 360....
Wow!! Me too! Some plaque broke loose and plugged my Widow maker. I was dead for 4 minutes. Thank god my wife was sitting there or I wouldn't have survived! I was in ICU for 5 days as well. They were really worried about my brain surviving Annoxia! I was a healthy fit guy and I never had angina. I got sick at the kitchen sink , threw up, sat on the couch and died. I then spent two weeks in a rehab center and I recovered quickly. Wonderful surgeon and everyone who saved me. I feel so lucky to be here!! 😁
I can add my 2cents. Notice the small improvements and work on being grateful. Have short term and long term goals that include other's help and planning. Being close to death gives you a valuable insight.
I noticed that when my goals get put out there they end up being answered prayers. I am pretty careful about my requests these days.
Keep on getting better.
@kensnyder2340 Yes, Ken, was a real eye opener as I just went to bed, slept, then awoke. They also said this was happening over a 8 year period. Ever so slowly going downhill, without ever noticing. Only two things that i did notice was I couldn't click my fingers and couldn't whistle. Never thought anything of it...???
Both Mike and Mark have already done SO MUCH for aviation... I can't even fathom asking them for more. They've been incredible ambassadors for General Aviation and are 2 of the best guys to ever come out o Utah. Love them both.
First off, I can not imagine aviation without either one of you in it, at this point. You are definitely the Rutan of this century. It is really awesome for my son and I to watch these videos and vicariously through your achievements and builds.
1. There are a LOT of things going right in aviation. There are so many opportunities out there, for young kids to get started in aviation (as a career and/or as a hobby/passion). There are channels, programs, classes, and seminars that promote safety, awareness, competency, and currency. The glass cockpits of today's world are a far cry from when I earned my license back in 1993. Although, maybe a reason why a lot of pilots are not honing those airman skills enough, as the GPS, software, and aids are doing it all for them, and in turn making us rely on them too much. ( NOT that is a bad thing!!!) but there is something to be said for going out and just flying stick and rudder, VFR dead reckoning every once in a while. Just like Juan Browne does. I guarantee he is a MUCH better 777 pilot, because of his hobbies. These builds that you do.... these aircraft push the boundaries of what was once available in dreams. KEEP IT UP!!!!!! You have given my love for aviation and helped me tremendously to pass it along to my son, which is heartwarming!!!! We are also ADHD, and it is so nice to see others excel, that also have this condition!
2. There are a LOT of things that are also going wrong in aviation!!! We are losing TOO MANY people to senseless crashes. Love him or hate him, But Gryder's AQP for GA is a BIG start!! So, is overhauling the overly bureaucratic FAA. Look at the Palmer case. Look at the senseless crashes that could be avoided if there was a more safety driven approach to the FAA's rules, guidance, and interaction. Yes, they are THE ones with the power. But, if something needs to be fixed, the FAA is known for throwing the judge's gavel at you, instead of mandatory retraining, or a safety driven approach. Mark, I know you probably are not wanting to get into politics, but the FAA needs an OVERHAUL!!!!!! We need to get more people to adopt the 3 strikes rule. I want Gryder to not have anything to post about!! I want us to be as accident free as we have ever been!!!
I would LOVE to see a A&P or a pilot school that has a more cost-effective way to get into for a young adult. As we all know, Aviation is a very expensive hobby, and one must swallow the pill and dues up front in order to even get the training to become what you have always wanted. Yes, I understand that's a utopian dream, but you said think BIG!!!
3. I was a member of the AOPA but have stopped several years ago. They have become over bloated with very high paid upper management, that does not have the best interests of GA in their dockets. I am a member of the EAA.
I have not flown in several years, as life got in the way. I retire in 3 years and have started my own business the first of the year. Like you both, I have a TON of goals. One of which is to build my own kit aircraft after I sign the ink on my retirement paperwork, along with my son (military A&P here). I watch every single video you and Mark put out, as well as Juan Browne, PremereOne Driver, Jimmy's World, Gryder, Trent Palmer, Mentour Pilot, My Layover Life, Smarter everyday, Practical engineering, and a TON of others.
My son and I WILL make it out to your open house with the cars/ aircraft, etc. in the next few years.
I say, that you both ARE already helping out GA and aviation as a whole !!!!! You have no idea how may fires of excitement and seeds that you and your families plant every single day!!!! Your enthusiasm, zest for life, love of God, Family, and Country, and your support of fellow LEO's, and public safety as a whole does NOT go unnoticed!! In a world where you can identify as a pencil, and that is accepted, you are a breath of fresh air.
Thank you.... seriously, thank you for ALL that you and your families have done, and will continue to do. I am SOOO thankful that you are both still here with us all! You do not know me from Adam, but you are both family, to us.
We look forward to see what you both come up with next and continue to wait for the next Patey video!! Rock on, gentlemen!!!
BACK TO WORK!!!!!!!!!💪💪
My son and I have really enjoyed your ideas, designs, and engineering for years. I even have a small Draco model in my office and was also upset at the loss of that amazing aircraft. Pushing the envelope of what current minds think of as limits has been a motivation for both my son and myself in our business lives as well as our personal lives. We have designed and built customized adventure vehicles decades before overlanding was a fad and an over used term by the influencing crowd. My career is in Cybersecurity and Risk Management and I have been fortunate enough to build a successful company by pushing back on assumed limitations and asking the questions of why we do something a certian way and not just accepting it as the way it has always been done. In my industry I see people and organizations build compliance frameworks, products and even write requirements without possessing actual applicable or relevant experience. I see the same in aviation. There is a significant difference in authority and bureaucracy. I understand there needs to be authority otherwise we could dissolve into chaos, however, the amount of bureaucracy stifles, suppresses, and inhibits creativity. In this video you mentioned the mountain of paperwork required on just one of your current projects. When I have bandwidth, I also watch some of Dave Sparks vids on his helicopter acquisitions and he too laments on the volume of bureaucracy one must wade through to accomplish anything in aviation.
You asked 3 questions so I will provide my opinions:
Question 1 - What is right with aviation: As I have been researching the production aircraft offerings, I am drawn to Diamond Aircraft as I think they have captured a lot of what is going right. Simplistic controls of complex systems, simplified management and monitoring of redundant systems, use of diesel engines to leverage availability/accessibility of Jet A fuel, use of a gearbox to manage prop RPMs and automated hydraulic pitch control simplifying the constant monitoring and management by the pilot, and many other integrations with technologies introduced by Garmin as well as others. Their use of composites in the airframes and the integration of safety feature in the design of the aircraft systems like their fuel cells and landing gear that uses hydraulic pressure to maintain the retract status vs being used to deploy the gear so in the event of loss of electric power or hydraulic pressure the gear will automatically extend using gravity. Lastly the construction of a twin (DA-62) with flight characteristics previously limited to a Cessna SkyMaster with abilities to continue to fly, effectively maneuver and even climb with only a single operational engine. These are just a few of the advances in technology other aircraft manufactures should be deploying in production aircraft.
Question 2 - What is wrong with aviation: This one is much more difficult as I am not closely enough affiliated with the private aviation industry as I probably should be. I see things from the outside as being expensive, exclusive, restrictive, and not inviting to the general public. My father purchased a Cessna 172 SkyHawk when I was a young teenager and I grew-up flying it. We kept it at a little private grass strip. My uncle was an AP and performed all our annuals and we did all our own maintenance and repairs. We bounced around the southeast any time and any where we wanted in that little bird for over 20 years. However, now that I am older and my Dad sold that plane after owning it for close to 30 years with the last decade of 22Lima just gathering hanger rash, I have been considering purchasing a newer plane to make my business travel more convenient. However, the volume of paperwork, government over-sight, and ever-expanding restrictions is making me reconsider that decision. I think there is simply too much bureaucracy for the sake of control that goes way beyond simple safety measures. Like the FDA, CDC, EPA, TSA, NSA, IRS and other government agencies that are staffed by non-elected mid-level bureaucrats, the FAA is bloated and needs to justify their existence and budget. That control fixated bureaucracy staffed by pencil pushers that have never experienced the freedom of piloting an aircraft yet have the authority to manufacture and enforce restrictions is what I see as the single largest problem with general aviation adoption in the US today.
Question 3 - Associations: None.
Thank you for inviting comment. I am a 65 yo retired NZ salesman, private investigative author & blogger, with no aviation involvement but I love your honesty and enthusiasm for your passion for aviation. I joined your channel because of Mark's build videos. Whatever you choose to do, please ensure that those videos still keep coming.
Amen!!
Nothing changes the direction of your life more than a near death experience. Glad you both get another chance. Thanks for sharing!
Some background:
I’ve been in aviation one way or another my whole life. First in my family but started plane watching as a young kid. Glider pilot when I was 15. Graduated aircraft maintenance program, took a break but started flying again. Finished my ppl and Bought a plane (which I lost in an accident), finally building a rv-10 now.
What’s going right: as many have said the community is amazing. Through flying, building, loss, training; someone has always been there willing to help. I have met tons of amazing people.
What’s going wrong: This one is personal for me. I studied, watched all the accident videos. Analyzed every flight and in the end GA and decision making snuck up and bit me with the loss of my first plane in a fatal accident. I think the general structure of aviation training is inadequate when compared to the risk. The first stepping stone for a commercial pilot is to become a CFI. Don’t get me wrong, I have flown with some great CFI’s but where we are lacking is cold hard experience. Guys who’ve had close calls, learned lessons the hard way and can connect with students to better educate on hazards we face which aren’t black and white in a text book. Trying to figure out how to prevent accidents like mine and really pass that on to the next generation has kept me up at night since the day my plane went down. We need a better way of training and passing that knowledge down.
The last problem is cost. So many people want to be part of aviation but it’s so cost prohibitive that many people are loosing sight of the dream.
Finally I have been a member of AOPA and EAA.
You both are extremely generous of your time, experience and knowledge and are a huge asset to the aviation field at many levels.
1) What is going right in aviation. People like you offering encouragement and resources to many people. Local EAA chapters. Relaxed changes and procedures with basic med, etc.
2) What needs fixing? Cost has pushed General aviation beyond limits to most people and the changing economy is challenging it more as time goes on.
3) What associations are you supporting? EAA and AMA (model aviation).
I have flown RC planes since the late 70’s, got my PPL at 19 YO in 1987, worked aviation maintenance (jet engine Field Service tech) for 39 years and finding it more difficult to manage the cost of aviation.
I would love to see you scale way back and challenge yourself to design an all metal (preferred), quick fold wing, 4-stroke powered or twin engine 2-stroke powered (for reliability), STOL FAR part 103 ultralight. Or a light ELSA version would work too.😀
You have well proven your great talents with the complex design. Now look the other way an see what you can achieve. This could put many people in the air after they learn how to build a plane. Do the RC DRACO’s fly well?
Thank you both for all you do!
1. I’m retired aerospace. My father was a WWII vet who was a gunner on B-17s, later a Mechanic on P-47s. He always got us involved in Model Rockets, U-control model airplanes and RC model airplanes. For me this involvement resulted in a 35 year career in aerospace on some pretty awesome programs. Today, I still fly Model RC airplanes. What I notice in our club is there are no youngsters at all, just retired old guys. If you can figure out how to attract young people into aviation, whether it’s Model aviation or general aviation, that would create great possibilities, good times and possibly awesome careers. Please do something to get youngsters jazzed and involved in aerospace.
2. Safety seems to be a problem in commercial aircraft lately, this sucks and is dragging down the industry.
3. I’m a long time member of AMA, American Modelers Association, does this count, lol.
Love you guys, glad you are both ok.
gov regulation is killing the RC hobby and aviation. too much BS and cost for no reason.
Almost the exact same suggestion as me. I'm an engineer, not really an aviation nerd, but I got my drive for engineering when I was little from working on various projects with my dad. It has driven my whole career. Most people do not have any real passion, or very little drive. I want to see youth outreach programs to get kids interested as early as possible. Could be model airplanes, could be general aviation maintenance, etc. I just want kids to find something they're passionate about and make a career out of it instead of working meaningless jobs they hate for the rest of their lives.
Cost of entry to GA is too high, wages too low.
Nobody's thinking about owning an aircraft when they are having trouble putting food on the table.
Model aircraft are not exactly affordable either, and at least in Canada it's more trouble (paperwork) to fly model aircraft than it is to fly a real one, if you can even find a field you're allowed to fly at.
The kids that are getting into aviation now are doing so in front of their computer screens, with simulators and CZcams videos.
I was also in the aerospace industry, worked at Rocketdyne space engine division. I am also an rc flyer in the Boise area.
I have always enjoyed aviation, but i too have kept my experience strictly to rc models both planes, jets, and helicopters. Member of the AMA past 7 years
1) You two and other fun aviation content creators are the best thing happening in aviation right now. You’re stoking energy in the industry and introducing flying to new people.
2) By far the biggest expense of owning an airplane is the cost of the hangar, and they are usually dreary places to hang out. Perhaps you duplicate your Spanish Fork hangar complex in airports across the country.
2.1) Aircraft engines are the second biggest expense. Perhaps you could buy the EPS company and bring the diesel piston to market for the GA industry?
Wow, this is one of your best videos yet.
1. Aviation information is so easy to obtain these days.
2. There seems to be a lot more accidents these days. They also seem to be easily avoidable ones as well
3. Your influence in general aviation is already amazing. I could see you being a voice to pilots, NSTB and FAA. Training for GA needs a voice that you possess.
I’ve been a member of AOPA and AMA (RC) for years
I think the number one thing keeping people out of general aviation, and also not helping with the safety factor is finances. I can’t think of anyone I would rather learn more about business than you two. Please do some talks about business, starting companies, running them and selling them. Please make a business course and sell it. I will be the first customer and biggest fan!
The friendship between you two is very inspiring as a father of 2 boys. I always emphasize to them that they'll have eachother for life and that's the most precious thing. You guys are exactly what I would like them to be when they grow up, not necessarily in terms of financial success, but just how you treat your family.
Thanks guys for being such good influences for aviation!!
1. Mosaic a good thing
2. Shortage of a&p’s
3 lifetime member EAA
Good to see you both. Thank you for sharing.
1.Things gooding well: Flight training
2. Things not doing well: The cost of aviation and the unleaded fuel issue.
3. I’m a member of AOPA, EAA and NAFI
True brothers love! Family is life! Keep friends close and family closer! Cant wait for more content!
The big things that would help with general aviation: 1. Mental health reform with FAA. 2. Bringing down aircraft and insurance costs. Those two things will do wonders for getting more people into aviation. The cost for second hand aircraft over the last 10 years (last 3-4 specifically) has gone up significantly, which has barred me personally from pursuing an aircraft purchase.
Hi guys…I’m somewhat of a newcomer to aviation (got PPL in 20’s and then stopped flying for 20 years before deciding to become a pro pilot in May of last year) and I’ve been really enjoying your videos.
1. What’s going right in aviation? Well…in my world, the thing that is going right for me and the thousands of guys that have flocked to my channel is that the career opportunities in aviation have never been better. If you want to fly as your profession, this is literally the best time in history to do it.
2. What’s going wrong in aviation? From my POV, there is a few things that need fixing. #1 is the DPE shortage. The fact that pilots have to wait months for a check ride is nuts. #2 is the cost of training. Most schools tell students that they should expect to spend $100K and train for 12-18 months to become a CFI. That is nuts. I went from PPL to CFI in 91 days for $47K. Considering that most pilots become a CFI in approximately 250-270 hours, why on earth does it need to cost so much and take so long? 270 hours divided by 180 days is only 1.5 hours of flying a day. Bottom line: I think flight schools are broken and students are paying the price (literally).
3. I’m a member of NAFI…but only recently.
Should you choose to work on any of the problems above, I’d be happy to help!
Thanks!
1) The GA community as a whole is just amazing at helping new pilots/builders and are just really wholesome people
2) I’m starting to see a lot on negative with GA when it comes to training. Many schools are just trying to get students out the door and off on their way without really going in depth on particular subjects such as spins. I am 19 years old and have only about 50hrs TT in GA and many more in ultralight flying and I can say for a fact that most new pilots aren’t getting all the information they need to be safe competent pilots. I am also 2 semesters in at my A&P school and have been doing a lot of research on crashes lately and many are maintenance issues and that includes avionics upgrades as well. The other issues with maintenance is in the CZcams side of things, many channels are starting to restore aircraft on a “budget” and those two things don’t go together well.
3) I am a member of AOPA and EAA!
Thanks you guys for everything! I’ve been following y’all since the beginning and truly appreciate everything y’all do! BACK TO WORK 💪
Glad y’all are healthy and are able to be around to share your love but also be here for your families.
A very important need in GA is improving the safety. This will help ensure it's survival by preventing restrictive rules etc. as well as limiting insurance costs etc. Adding your game to what Dan Gryder is doing (not thinking finance but your endorsement as often as you can). This area (safety) is so impactful for all society, not just pilots, as the media only gets loud over accident, especially fatals. Thanks. Love you guys and so glad you are all well!
Thanks for the opportunity to add our input and thank you both for your passion about growing GA.
#1 - The community in GA is growing and vibrate
#2 - Serious shortage in GA mechanics, issue with small airports not being properly managed and driving people out due to lack of hangars
#3 - Member of EAA and AOPA
and cost of hangers, the cheapest near me is 300/month and that is on a private strip, most common is 600 to 1400 even those have a 2 yr or more waiting list. I have been considering selling my house and finding enough property somewhere big enough to build a strip and a house, it would be cheaper in the long run.
I'm currently studying aviation regulations and maintenance in France and I'm a member of a warbirds association.
1) I think that the aviation sector is contributing a lot to other industries. Aviation makes a lot of people dream.
2) Aviation is still an expensive sector for young people, and I think that it's maybe a barrier for those who wants to become pilots...
Safety is also one of the most topical subjects, we need to reinforce concept/building controls and training of pilots to make the aviation safer.
Despite the low part of carbon emissions of the sector, we won't be able to fly aircraft forever, we need to find some solutions to reduce the impact of the aviation sector on the planet. But I know that it's difficult because it takes a lot of time and money to develop new technologies... It would be nice to see you work on that ; I know that you are familiar with weight reduction (carbon fiber...), maybe it's a good way of research ?
3) I'm a member of the Ailes Anciennes de Corbas (Old wings of Corbas) association which restores and maintain vintage aircraft in flight. We have some aircraft mostly from the 40s to the 60s, which is the periods I like the most in aviation. I understand your project to modify an albatros, but personally I don't feel that good, because, you said it, those planes are rare. For me the only way to make your project while keeping respect and fame to these famous planes would be to limit to only add things on it to be able to restore it easily to it's original condition for the possible future owners. Or if you want to make modifications on it, it would be good to keep it historically accurate. Thank you.
AOPA member since 1989. Current EAA member. Owner FX-3 Carbon Cub and 1975 PA-28-180. The one thing I would like you do do for general aviation is to eliminate the requirement for yearly inspection of aircraft that have low utilization. It does more harm to an aircraft to take it apart for inspection than it does to operate it. Privately owned aircraft that are not in commercial service should not need inspection more frequently than 100 hours or 2 years.
Yea, But let's let that bird nest, or the wires that a mouse or rat chewed up, go unnoticed, because of not having the yearly annual check..... yep. NOT going to happen. It's your life, but we need to be doing things safer, NOT riskier... The annual is there for a reason.
@@Turbobrat_Motorsports You have an annual inspection and a week later a bird nests in your cowl and a rat chews your wiring. Are you going to operate the aircraft for another 11 months? Are you really so unaware of the condition of your aircraft that you need an A&P IA to tell you it's not safe to fly?
Thank you for what you both have done, and are doing for aviation. I have had the privilege of meeting both of you. Aviation has been in my family for many generations from the military to RC planes and will continue with my children. I’m part of EAA, AOPA, FAA, and 25:25 a controller in the ATL area and RV10 owner. I bleed aviation and love it as much as you.
1. Hanger space for GA
2. Cost of entry for student pilots
3. Skyrocketing landing or use fees for flying to lunch somewhere.
4. Uncertainties for AV gas regulations
5. Did I mention hanger space?
6. Airports only catering to Jets and not the local pilots.
Thanks again. Love you guys.
Now back to work, can’t wait to see this old and new projects come to life.
I'm happy that you're doing well now Mark. There's something to be said about the power of twins.
What’s most amazing is that there are two of you. Keep up the outstanding work.
STUDENT PILOTS!!! so many schools so many young pilots trying to figure out their path. Its so expensive and hard. But they could benefit from outreach from yall.. my son is currently finishing up TCC pilot program here in fort worth. Y'all could fly them in to your new facility with seminars educating them on all the exciting things they could get into. Help them fund school and give them the tools they need to succeed
Oh please buy the albatross asap. I have been in love with the albatross since i was a kid. You would be fulfilling a childhood dream for me. That would be the absolute #1 project.
1: General Aviation is growing! So awesome that aviation people have dove into CZcams and Instagram and continue to grow this awesome industry that we all love.
2: affordability and public perception are both really struggling in the industry right now. It's too much to go into here, but a renewed focus on PR issues surrounding aviation and accessibility is absolutely essential.
3: I've been an AOPA and EAA member for over a decade and strongly support both organizations, both for their work from a public policy/political standpoint, as well as how they support the aviation industry and pilot community.
Lastly, do a Mike Patey Edition turbine Albatross!! That would be incredible.
What’s right? The Aviation Community is still strong. It truly a family that helps each other regardless if they are strangers or best friends.
What needs fixing? Regulations that limit growth and increase costs.
Member of: AOPA 22years, CAF 20yrs, Angel Flight 7 yrs.
Thx for the great videos and inspirations. Keep flying and stay healthy and safe.
While not being pilots or involved with GA, we're still hugely enthused with aviation and flight. My sons (7 and 10) both know who Mike Patey and Draco are/was, and are gonna be over the moon to hear about Draco X! That look on a kids face who gets to fly an RC plane for the first time, even when it's on the buddy box, just demonstrates the magic and wonder of flight. Keep doing what you're doing to keep the nice guy/ freindly vibe going in aviation.
Guys, you are the best thing in aviation history today. I have followed and watched Mikes builds for a while. From my meager perspective to aviation is the cost. I got my pilots license in my 40’s. Growing up I have always thought that flying was for the wealthy. Today I am still far from wealthy. A friend and I have the privilege to acquire our LSRM certification in a couple months. I have been a member of EAA and AOPA since around 2014. Have been a volunteer for our local young eagles event two times a year since 2013. How can the average Joe enjoy the great world of aviation? Henry Ford understood that need in the automotive industry in his early days.
1. What’s going correct: safety is talked about more than ever and more scholarships for young people every day 2. There are two very different kinds of pilots out there, one seems to have money to burn and the other are sacrificing everything just to fulfill their dreams, it would be great if they had more scholarships for the older crowd to add on another rating , IFR / Commercial to possibly make a career change or just be a safer pilot 3. Proud EAA , AOPA and Minnesota pilots member. Keep doing what you’re doing, it definitely makes the world a better place
Welcome to the second life club, Mark. I died of a heart attack in 2018. It took 4 tries with the defibrillator to get me back and a tripple bypass. I made some major changes also and am still going strong. Best of luck.
So glad you're still both okay, you make the world a better place.
1) I love the passion that GA has. I got my PPL in Dec partially because of people like Mike Patey and Trent Palmer. I also love what CZcams has done for GA. It has shown what is possible and what is out there. I never knew these planes or even the industry at all until I started seeing videos on CZcams. So good job spreading the news there.
2) Cost. Everything is SO expensive. This might not be something you can truly help with, but as a regular Joe who does not fly for a business, I just fly out of my own pocket, it's expensive.
3) I'm and EAA Member and an AOPA member, but only since July of last year, as that's when I started my ground school. You guys are doing amazing things. I'm inspired by what you do, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
I work in aviation and I’m about to get my PPL license, just for fun. My flight school is nice but we’re still flying on 1978 C172N. My ideas to you: 1) Design a trainer that would revolutionize and lower the cost of initial PPL and IFR ratings (do what the Cessna Skycather was meant to do but unfortunately failed. 2) Another idea is to design a modern 2 seater to be an entry path into aircraft ownership. Better performing than typical LSAs but still docile and suitable to the average-skilled pilot (maybe a Cirrus-like 2 seater?). Love you guys! All the best, Breno
Mark/Mike, happy to hear you are both well, and always inspired by your passion, kindness, ingenuity, and drive. I’m a young engineer in KY with a CZcams-Only pilots license and excited to one day make it real. Here are some thoughts of someone viewing from the outside looking in.
1) The Good: The universal sense of community and inclusion, no other following is as welcoming and supportive. How universally serious the aviation community takes training, safety, and improving, no one jokes about this. A sense of freedom, nothing else can make you feel limitless reach and exploration as flying an aircraft. Incorporating STEM as an essential and natural path to learning to fly, such a great way to teach young kids, the aviation program at my high school helped me find my passion for engineering. But most of all, the amazing, crazy, out of this world PATEY builds.
2) The Bad: As passionate as I am, prepared to do the work , ready to pay for training to become a pilot, I can no longer ignore the reality of my concerns for safety. I used to think I understood the risk, but seeing so many AMAZING and CAPABLE people lose their life scares me. Suddenly I hear thoughts like, “is it really worth it”, “would I even want to take my family”, “can it really happen to anyone?”, “maybe I shouldn’t”. When I see pilots orders of magnitude more experienced than I’ll ever be, finding themselves in life threatening circumstances, that is not a good reality. Yes, there’s always a mis-step, mistake, or reason for these incidents. But if our best pilots make them, I will too. . Honestly, I am surprised there isn’t a more widely used life saving feature in the industry to at least provide a buffer from the risk of great harm. (the parachutes seem promising?) To make it worse, I’m just viewing on CZcams, how many more tragic stories are not publicized on the internet. I wonder how many others are hesitating to get involved when we see so many tragic stories of good people.
For Mark’s recommendations, I think I’ll leave that to those more involved in the aviation world already. But I know for certain, you both have an immense impact on the growth of GA and even more so on my life. I think I speak for many when I say we appreciate you and your family. Please take care of yourselves and enjoy life!
(Currently not in any clubs/memberships)
1. Access to information is good in GA - one can now learn and teach others much more easily!
2. A&P shortage - perhaps help experimental builders get A&P certification.
3. I've been a member of EAA for 4 years - met Mark in person at Oshkosh this year! (i've built a RotorWay helicopter recently and you talked to me about helicopters!)
Incredible stories guys! Glad you both are still here to keep enriching lives!
Love both of you guys.... Thinking of you and your families. Stay positive!
I know nothing about aviation, but the two of you ooze such enthusiasm that I find myself wanting to know about it. And that house, Mike - well, words fail me.
AOPA needs a new leader! You have that passion!
i always had a feeling there was a special connection between twins. so glad for mark and all of you that he pulled through. that would have been an nightmare. ❤
Enjoy your friends and family. A brother build would be great but either way you have both made an enormous impact on aviation!
I think you Patey brothers inspire in more ways than you imagine. While most of us want to fly, there's a segment of the aviation world that for either physical limitations like sight, or something as simple as funding, may never actually pilot a plane. To them, though, the excitement of merely designing the next Draco or Turbulence would be a dream come true. What about creating a Patey scholarship for an aeronautical engineering degree? Who knows, your reach may someday reach to Mars or beyond!
The Albatross project would be AWESOME!!! Who am I kidding …. All of your projects are awesome! Mark, very sorry to hear about your health scare, but very happy to see you doing well!