NYC's World's Fair Line - The Lost Subway
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- čas přidán 19. 04. 2024
- There was once a line in eastern Queens operated by the IND named the World's Fair Line. In this video, I give a full history of the line and explain why it doesn't exist anymore.
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#nycsubway #mta #worldsfair - Auta a dopravní prostředky
The most interesting part of this video is the fact that this line existed for the 1939-40 world's fair, meaning that it was around prior to the more well known 1964 world's fair
The later one may be more well known now, but the 1939 one was pretty famous at the time, and its symbols of the Trylon and Perisphere are still more well known than the boring metal globe of the 1964 fair that is still there.
@@emjayay well then, that's interesting
@@alexharris2495It's also very INACCURATE; even the right-of-way has been commandeered by one of Robert Moses' Hitler (autobahn) fantasies; the Van Wyck "expressway".
The 1939 NYC World's Fair is important for transit fans because the ideas of the "City Of The Future" were presented by the automobile companies and others. The City of Tomorrow consisted of highways and suburbs, single family homes with trees, grass and lawns and single family cars that the head of the house-hold uses to drive to the city center using brand new massive urban freeways that lead directly to the city center. No more clunky old elevated railroads or crowded subways with their very old grimey cars that were never washed as a way to prevent rust. Or ratty street cars clogging the roads. This City Of Tomorrow did not consist of minorities or poor folks living in old crowded tenements. Robert Moses was in the beginning of the height of his power. The seeds of major changes to NYC, and other urban areas were beginning. The issues related to the 1939 World's Fair was not only just that a short extension of the GG train was eliminated.
@michaelsherrell6389 this is some interesting insight....
The M or R line taking a similar path and terminating at Willets Point would be a really great project once the area around Citi Field is fully renovated. I'm not going to hold my breath for anyone proposing that, but just saying.
It would make more sense to build it before all of the new building is done, it will be exponentially cheaper
Not needed. The area covered by the line is mostly Flushing Meadows Park and is within close proximity to both the 7 Line and the Queens Blvd. Line. Plus, the Van Wyck Expressway was built on the right of way of the line (nit the LIE as the narrator stated in the video). The line terminated at the LIE, but ran along open space that is now the Van Wyck.
What is needed far more is an extension to the south that is very underserved. The Queens Link is the extension that is needed to connect the Queens Blvd. line to the abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach branch (which connects to the A line and JFK Airport and The Rockaways).
Love your videos. however you are mistaken. the train left Jamaica yard and followed what is today the south bound Van Wyck. Its station was just south of the Horace Harding XW
Thanks for the info
Actually, northbound GG trains went from D2 track, leaving 71 Ave-Continental Avenue to D6 to Jamaica Yard, then beyond to the fairgrounds via the same route as the present day Van Wyck Expwy...
Great video! Also slight correction: the present day ROW of this line that led to the station was demolished for 678, the Van Wyck Expressway, while the Long Island Expressway (495) goes east and west and might've ran perpendicular to the former station.
Thanks for the info!
Yupp I picked up on this too when I went to check it out on Google maps
Thanks, I was about to post the same info but decided to scroll the comments first to see if someone else picked up on it.
Finally someone covered up this line the (GG) went to it
What a squandered opportunity. If they had extended the line further into eastern Queens it could have changed the course of development vs. Robert Moses' vision of highways.
Yeah I’m pretty sure Robert Moses directly or intently had something to do with the demolishing of this extension, and somehow turning it into an additional part of the LIE.
@@calvinkendrick851The Worlds Fair Line is actually a North-south line, so it essentially became the Van Wyck Expressway.
@@TheRailLeaguer true. I think someone else pointed out the mistake as well confusing the expressways, But still, the idea of Robert Moses if anything supporting any idea of demolishing subways which maybe in this particular case may not have had too much of a negative impact because of the timing of the World’s Fair at the time in 1939-40, and when (Shea Stadium at the time) was built in 1964, which is a huge gap of any attractions in the area. Even if we had the line today, that would be redundant because the only thing in the area that is an attraction for everyone is Citi Field and sometimes US Open. The only other attractions are the Queens Museum, the Hall of Science, and Arthur Ashe stadium which are mainly for kids and teenagers.
@@calvinkendrick851You’re right, though instead, we could potentially replace the LIE with a new subway running along a restored Horace Harding Blvd up to Springfield Blvd and eventually to Little Neck.
@@TheRailLeaguer That’s right, or in other words, resume one of the original extension projects on all the lines that have been proposed since 1929, lol.
"Looks like a town straight outta florida" that is... amazing
Didn't understand that remark...grew up in Queens, currently live in FL. Don't get the joke/sarcasm/irony
@@terenceetullyjrIt pertains to the excessive automotive use that Florida (and far too any other states) is famous for.
Remember that the BMT and IRT systems had not yet been taken over by the City when the spur to the Fair was built. It was a competitive effort by the IND. Soon thereafter, however, in 1940 the City purchased the two systems. For the 1964-65 Fair (and professional sports events), the Flushing IRT, the LIRR, and bus lines must have been sufficient public transportation.
They should had kept the The IND World's Fair Line, with new stations in between.
Always wondered what happened to the World's Fair Line and what the area looks like today. Now I have my answers.
Slight correction : the Worlds Fair Line rode parallel to the Van Wyck
Wish you has drawn the line in on a current subway map to give us a better idea where the line ran.
If it still existed, would it intersect the 7 train?
no
It only ran to the general area where I-678 and I-495 meet.
MT: Posting rarely talked about transit history...
Me: Actually watching from Jamaica Yard...😂
The city should've left some lines alone and kept running, but I digress.
I said it before and i'll say it again: I would've kept the worlds fair line as well as extended it either into eastern queens and/or north to college point or something like that.
There was an idea to extend the 7 to those two areas. One branch going to either Bayside or a little beyond, and the other branching off into College Point.
I think we should reactivate what’s left of this line and rebuild what was torn down, probably as an extension to Flushing or points north of there
There is really nothing left of the line anymore except for the signals in Jamaica Yard.
@@TheRailLeaguerHowever, as long as nothing but that useless stuperhighway blocks it, it CAN be done, just by commandeering a part of the roadway itself for the line.
@@user-dj7wv5ok2x Even then there really isn’t much momentum to revive this route, since it takes an indirect route to Northern Queens and would result in low ridership, also considering that 3/4th of the route is parkland. However a separate light metro route could be built along the more commercially developed Main Street, which can better serve more people, especially since it links Jamaica and Flushing. There’s also potential to bring it to the Bronx. For removing the Van Wyck Expressway, it’s better off being replaced with a north-south bikeway and multi-use greenway to provide better access to Flushing Meadows-Corona Park.
That was a awesome video from you sir. It's unfortunate that the MTA didn't allow the world Fair Extention of the Queens Blvd Line aka the GG Line. The politicians and New York City could've found a way to keep the up and running to this day . But the Long Island Expressway had pretty much replaced the subway Extention. The World Fair Extention was a head of It's time and it had brought people straight to the World Fair of 1939.
The MTA did not come into existence until 1968, so how could the "MTA didn't allow the world Fair Extention of the Queens Blvd Line aka the GG Line?" The years 1939 and 1940 were well before the unification of the various subway lines, and well before the creation of the NYC Transit Authority.
2:58 it's 1939 not 1929😅
It would be interesting if they kept the worlds fair line and extend the northern part in between 7 and citi field. Then extend the southern part into the old rockaway park line. Also keep the connection for worlds fair and queens blvd line to run more trains for citi field and us open events.
I have the book, "Subway to the World's Fair", by Frederick A. Kramer.
Lots of photos of this line with historical information too.
This is amazing piece of history 0:27
Very interesting!
Terrific video, so there are no remnants left of the station or the line leading towards it?
Besides the signals inside of Jamaica Yard, no.
The price tags you quote here seem like a quick win by any standard, especially when compared to more recent projects \m/
You did a great job with this one man 3:25
Thank you for this. I never knew that line existed.
1:40 that train looks like it was flying at 55-60 mph 🔥
Queens Blvd has one of the fastest express services. However, the current speed limit is 48 MPH. But the tracks can support 60 MPH Trains. Looking at that train, u can tell it's going in-between 35-45 Mph
@@GabechrisplaysRoblox i live on queens blvd and i take the E and F trains daily. Whenever I’m going past Woodhaven Blvd or Rego Park, I see the trains clocking around 52-55 mph. Anywhere around 35-45 mph would be the M and R trains soeed
@@ishrakkhan5541 Oh? Have u ever looked in the Operators Cab and see the speed? Cus the speed limit is 48 MPH idk how u would see 52-55. The M and R would run under 40.
@@GabechrisplaysRobloxyes I have and that’s why I’m saying it has hit 55 mph max.
@@ishrakkhan5541 Speed Limit, not how fast the trains can actually go
I thought u were talking about the 1964 World's Fair on the 7 at First. Which is irrelevant since it was 1939 that this is. The 1964 World's Fair was back when the R33s were Blue and White.
"A town straight out of Florida". A damning indictment!
I attended the 1964 World's Fair. I may have taken the World's Fair Line I don't remember. I was in elementary school at the time. 😉
Did you mean construction of the Van Wyck Expressway?
💯
Did anyone tell you, your tales of the subway thumbnails look like Geoff Marshall's?
A lot of my videos are inspired by him and Jago Hazzard. I've been watching their channels for years.
@@MysticTransit that's great, both they're channels are very interesting I'm glad you're taking inspiration from the two goats of transport, I also am taking inspiration from Geoff making my videos
The World's Fair spur was where the Van Wyck Expressway is now.
Actually it wasn't built in 1964 because of Robert Moses
Call me crazy but maybe it did make sense to take it down after one year cause there's no point of keeping it up if it's just for the Worlds Fair and only goes to the park with no stations along the way for people to take the train to to commute or wherever they're going. I mean the Worlds Fair was only for 1 year and people would only take it for that and after that no one would ride it again so there was no point of them keeping it if that was the case. I know it would've been great if it was still around today but what's the point of keeping something if it's not going to be used again after the Worlds Fair was over.
Not to mention that the path of the line and later the Van Wyck was not located near any homes or places of interest, and there was zero potential for redevelopment. Essentially it was park and surrounding it the entire route.
Honestly, if there was to be a new north-south Queens route, a separate route could’ve been built along Main Street, a commercial roadway with development adjacent to the corridor, including Queens College. That would’ve been more worthwhile.
Van Wyck* It the Van Wyck Expressway who took over the right-of-way. Van Wyck goes N-S, LIE goes E-W.
Mystiic 😃
Why cant a branch of the 7 turn north at Shea Road and hug the highway to serve LGA??? Why is this a problem that cant be solved?
Extending the Ditmars line into LGA would make more sense.
It’s indirect and would take away service to Flushing. That line would be better off being extended eastward along Roosevelt and Northern to Bell Blvd and eventually into Nassau County.
@@TheRailLeaguer In both the 1929 and 1939 maps of the IND Second System, the Corona line has two branches after leaving Main Street; one goes to College Point, and the other continues eastward ....
@@TheRailLeaguer
That said, the deinterlined (E) and (K) trains (I'm calling them as proposed by TTA and vanshnookenraggen) would allow a third branch off of Queens Blvd to serve Union Turnpike. Probelm is, ridership is heavy only up to about 188 Street, more or less where Fresh Medows is, so I don't think a subway across the entire stroad will be feasible. That said, a Union Tpke branch up to about Francis Lewis Blvd would still provide numerous transit connections (including to St. John's University), and would arguably be the shortest of the three branches, which the Far Rockaway variant should take.
NYC Transit doesn't want A division/IRT trains overcrowded with tourists with suitcases because the cars are smaller.
Robert Moses was NOT going to let anyone run a train down the middle of his superhighways. That was some sort of cockamamie Chicago idea!
That came After Moses has been told off.
It actually WASN'T a "Chicago" idea; the Pacific Electric Railroad in southern California had such an arrangement long before Chicago even considered doing the same....
U can thank Robert mosses
3:00 you wrote 1929
train
America doesn't believe in railroads.
ONLY because the nation is being held hostage by the automotive industry, energy corporations, and the airline industry as well.