Should NYC Build Median Highway Lines?
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- This was inspired by a question on Reddit: / do_you_think_subway_ex...
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They say the worst type of station is a freeway median one (shoutout Alan Fisher), but the actual worst type of station is no station at all
If they had built the Sheridan Expressway northeast of West Farms, part of it could've had the IRT Dyre Avenue Line in the median.
you’re right a bad station is better than nothing
It absolutely is true think about it. The station is literally in the middle of no man’s land with highway and speeding cars on both sides no stores close by imposing large architecture because the freeway is built for cars.
"They" need to shutup cause its just like highway traffic bothways too. with direct connections to where destinations is at.
I took 3 buses along Horace Harding for high school and thought this every single day
Ohh man I get what you mean. Good thing is after the MTA fixes the Queens bus redesign, the Q88 will run on the Horace Harding Expressway the whole route. So you don’t gotta transfer from the Q30 to Q88.
@@matthewhernandez8342 I believe the newest MTA's redesign scrapped those changes.
An interesting fact about Co-op City is that it used to be a theme park dedicated to American history called Freedomland USA which consisted of over 40 attractions arranged in the shape of a large map of the contiguous US. Freedomland was conceived and built by C. V. Wood, a Texan who was the chief developer for Disneyland. After Disneyland's opening, Wood's relationship with Walt became strained because of various disputes, and he was ousted from Disneyland management in 1956. So he set out to open his own parks under his company Marco Engineering. This part of the Bronx was formerly marshland owned by the Webb and Knapp real estate firm, and under Marco Engineering, they worked together with Webb and Knapp and selected this site for Freedomland USA.
The park opened in 1960 but didn't last long because of financial issues they faced from their 65-million-dollar construction cost. They tried adding more exhibits to generate revenue, but that too didn't work, so it closed permanently in 1964, Co-Op City was announced for the site in 1965, construction began in 1966, residents began moving in in 1968, and was completed in 1973.
Absolutely however they need to be designed like the Montreal REM stations along their freeways which means enclosed station structures with advanced automated trains that have AC and HEPA filtration so that the air indoors is way cleaner than outside... Chinese have similar PM 2.5 cleaning tech and monitoring systems and seem obsessed with them for a good reasons...
Nothing in NY will ever be clean. Dirty people, dirty city.
Not exactly highway median stations, but the Bayonne stations of the HBLR are right next to NJ Route 440. This is because much of the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail uses old right-of-way that was already established for rail that came before the highway. In the case of the Bayonne stations, it uses old Central Railroad of New Jersey right-of-way and runs alongside Conrail freight trains. The CNJ right-of-way used to have six tracks, but 440 took some its right-of-way. Now despite being along a highway, it's not all that bad. 45th St has no parking lot and the west side of 45th St is all apartments, so for those who live nearby, it's a simple walk to the station. 8th Street station is on an elevated viaduct because it was gonna connect to the Bayonne Bridge for an extension to Staten Island, and was supposed to be a 50-spot park and ride, but they drastically changed it to just 10, and 8th Street's building was inspired by the old CNJ station there.
The "Defining the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail Catchment Area" report from January 2019 was done by the NJDOT is a thorough survey on the system with charts on ridership and how people got to the stations and according to the report for the Bayonne stations, nearly 14 percent got to 45th Street by car, 24 percent got to 34th Street by car, 24 percent got to 22nd Street by car, and 15 percent got to 8th Street by car. Now it doesn't sound bad at first, but when compared to extremely low percentages like 1.1 percent for 2nd Street or 2.2 percent for Jersey Ave, then it is! 34th Street uses its 440 location as a huge park and ride, and it's even served by a MTA bus to Staten Island!
Exactly, a median station on its own is poorly designed, but if you have the density to back it up AND have it enclosed in a way that you're protected from all that noise pollution like having platform screen doors like the REM stations in Montreal do, then it can be great design! Even better if there's a bus hub. And on the REM, it shares the Champlain bridge with a highway, so it's a necessity for Montreal transit, and connecting the suburbs. The more suburban drivers who choose rail over their car to get to work, errands, or see a show, the better! Du Quartier on the REM is next to a highway, but it was built to have access to the Dix30 shopping mall and there's nice housing too. I also have little issue with the Orange and Silver Lines of the DC Metro utilizing highways in their western segments (west of Ballston-MU). By the time you reach areas like Whiele-Reston East on the Silver Line or Dunn Loring on the Orange Line, the density is low enough that it makes more sense to save some cost and prioritize speed so you can get to the big TOD stations like Ballston-MU or the downtown DC stations like Farragut West.
On the LIRR, the Babylon Branch aren't median stations, but it runs along NY State Route 27 or Sunrise Highway. However, the Babylon Branch came way before the highway as it originally opened in the 1860s while the highway first opened in the mid-1920s, so the highway follows the trains, not the other way around. And the Babylon Branch is completely grade separated, but it wasn't always this way. When it got its start in the 1860s as part of South Side Railroad of Long Island, it was all ground-level crossings, and this became a problem as more people moved to the south shore of Long Island. So a mega project was launched in the 1950s to build the stations on elevated viaducts, with the last station along the branch to be elevated was Massapequa Park in 1980. To supplement Route 27, there is parking to lure people off the highway and different NICE and Suffolk Transit buses serve the stations as well, with the addition of Jones Beach bus service from Freeport making it possible to go to Jones Beach concerts by transit.
Environmental scientist here - @1:14 this is actually showing that air quality (in this case fine particulate matter PM2.5) improved significantly between the late-2000s and the mid-2010s which is a great thing. As for the highway median station option, with platform screen doors it is now possible to fully enclose a highway median station and shield it from outside noise, weather & pollution, see the new REM highway median stations in Montreal as a good example of this.
NYC and the MTA are struggling to build anything for even remotely acceptable costs, the costs of projects are insane, and unfortunately this seems to have lead to the insane decision to try and build the Interborough Express as a LR line with some street running to get an "easy win" on the board, whereas I would suggest an easy win for them could actually be to do the QueensLink and this suggested highway median line as subway extensions.
I showed the map at 1:14 because even when air pollution is down, which is a good thing, you still trace where the highways are by looking where are the darker lines.
And for your second point, I agree, which is why politics is so important. We need a pro transit mayor, which isn't as impossible as you may think. In 2021, Garcia only lost by 0.8 percent to Adams, and is way more pro transit than any mayoral candidate in my lifetime.
wow, how bad is the air by the Cross Bronx??????
I used to commute from the northern Bronx (lived near Woodlawn station on the 4 train) all the way to Queens College. I hated how nearly every other college in the city had a subway station on or near them , yet Queens College had none. I had to take the F train to Forest Hills and the Q64 to campus. The Horace Harding expressway line would've been a game changer.
I definitely propose an IND Long Island Expressway Line along with a BMT Union Turnpike Elevated Line & IND Utopia Parkway Elevated Line. The {BG} & {RF} should serve the IND Long Island Expressway Line running local, while the {BQE} & {FX} run express. The should serve the IND Utopia Parkway Elevated Line running local, while the {DK} runs express.
It would've probably be easier to take the Bx34 to Fordham, transfer to the Bx9/Bx22 to the Q44 (which will drop you off near Queens College on the Main Street Side). This is why we are pushing for the Queens Bus Redesign to extend the Q44 SBS to Fordham Plaza.
@@ahmadfrw1 I definitely considered finding some way to take the Q44 but the timing was at best the same. And buses tend to be a lot less reliable. The Q44 being extended or there being more bus service from The Bronx to Queens would be much nicer.
I want a Bronx to Queens train. In my fantasy map, I have a train line running under Laconia Ave then on Williamsbridge Rd after Pelham Pkwy, then under some houses to Bronxdale Ave, then through the Metropolitan Oval to Parkchester, then down White Plans Rd all the way to its southern end then underwater to Queens then through College Point, Flushing Main St, then all the way through main street, then finally taking over the airtrain to JFK.
Penn Station Access will already travel the route, i think it's mad there's no stop planned at Astoria or northern boulevard.
@@Joesolo13 the problem with that is it cost more to ride and mainly serves west Queens, which doesnt need it that badly since west Bronx and west Queens are already near Manhattan. East Bronx and East Queens need this more, although I'm not sure if it has the necessary demand for construction.
@@Joesolo13 I definitely propose an Astoria Station on the Long Island Railroad’s Throgs Neck Branch.
@@Joesolo13I got to speak with the MTA’s chairman on the matter at a hearing once. He wasn’t very predisposed to the idea of adding lines to a route whose main proposition was faster travel to Penn station.
Of course, if things operated ideally with commuter rail, then it wouldn’t be commuter rail, it would be regional, and the disconnected to disjointed systems would find a way to connect across what are currently 3 disjointed systems
I WILL CREATE NUMBER 0 TRAIN
That's why electric scooters and lightweight folding e bikes came to the rescue in filling in the gap of these subway transit deserts.
Nothing on this day and age beats the ease, convenience and cost effectiveness of these miraculous last mile devices as opposed to costly and difficult subway line extensions!
I am so proud to be an owner of one of these!
They should as that means there can be more subway lines
The 6 train extension, I say build it on the Co-op city Blvd rather than the existing Amtrak line since there are plans to built a station and the metro north is to serve the existing right of way, both of these can benefit in providing more transit options as there are going to be two more stations and the rail line parallels the 6 line
Well I think there should be a close enough connection to the right of way Amtrak. The question is if they plan to build the soon coming Metro North station directly under I95, or build it a little further north of it. If the second option, then the train should run a little along I-95, a little a long the Hutchinson River Parkway, and have a station there along with some footbridge to connect from the 6 to the metro north, then make a S curve onto Bartow Avenue and then onto Co-op city Blvd.
The biggest problem with a Cross-Bronx Expwy rapid transit line is that there is literally nowhere to put it without taking half of the road away (impossible - it's i95). There are so many narrow cuttings, tunnels, overpasses, viaduct portions, and extremely hard yet unstable rock it cuts through. Essentially you would have to build a new Cross-Bronx Expwy (for trains) parallel--already an incredibly difficult process the first time--but this time with way higher costs, environmental reviews, and the fact that it would be completely impossible politically.
it took 10 years to "build" 4 stations. Also, the stations are huge when in reality that much space is not needed. Also, way too many consultants and very little expertise when it comes to building new rail since that kind of job is done far in between.
@@the0ne809 even if we got it sorted we aren’t getting back to 1950s construction costs. It doesn’t matter anyway bc the right of way doesn’t exist
Exactly, Chicago was able to build roadways with trains in the median so it has to be plan in somewhat of a similar matter, but in NYC that task range from difficulty to impossible
Cross Bronx should never have been built.. both the neighborhood impact and that the Sheridan roughly parallels it.
@@JimAllen-Persona probably not in that place but it’s too late now, there aren’t any other ways to get through NYC region except with a giant detour to i287.
The Sheridan doesn’t even close to parallel it
Branching the N toward LGA starting at Astoria Blvd wouldn't work anyway. It would have to branch before that stop, since the station itself is literally on top of the highway - there is no way to turn *on to* the highway *after* that station. I'd love to see an N extension to LGA though, would bring some necessity of much needed love for a line that seems to always be delayed or out of service.
I instead propose 3 branches of the BMT Astoria Line:
The branch goes to Fordham Plaza via Astoria local, 21st Avenue, Van Alst Street, RFK Bridge, Saint Ann’s Avenue, & 3rd Avenue, while the (N) terminates at Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard.
The branch goes to Starlight Park-174th Street via Astoria local, the new East Bay Bridge, Manida Street, Southern Boulevard, West Farms Road, & Sheridan Boulevard, while the (W) terminates at Rikers Island.
The runs to Crocheron Park-217th Street via Astoria express, 21st Avenue, LaGuardia Airport, Astoria Boulevard, Roosevelt Avenue, Northern Boulevard, Crocheron Avenue, & 35th Avenue, while the (Q) should terminate at Ditmars Boulevard-111th Street.
@@bennythepenny5831Too many branches!
Hard to say, this requires study analysis of the expressways and the surrounding area, the one I'm going to disregard is the van wyck expressway since the JFK airtrain is built along the expressway between Jamaica and n & s conduit Blvds
New York is the exception because, in many cases, the high density hi-rises came before the highways existed.
I love these videos about building subway lines. I always look forward to them. Highway median lines I’ve been saying that Union Turnpike needs a line to travel along with the Q46. The Horace Harding line is much needed. I love the ingenious idea of extending the E on the right of way Atlantic Branch. Since the Montauk branch eventually joins with the Atlantic branch near Rosedale, the LIRRs can just travel there and still go to their Babylon, Long Beach, West Hempstead etc. terminals. Throggs Neck needs a line, and Lafayette is most appropriate. Extending the Astoria line after Ditmars and then turning is a great way. Extending the 6 would be great, but I think there needs to be room for some type of easier connection to the upcoming Penn Station Metro north access station at Co-Op City which is all the way at the back. Hopefully, they won’t try to use the Penn Station access as an excuse not to extend the 6. A crosstown line would be great to replace the BX12. I think a small tunnel would be the best solution at around Webster Avenue, but maybe a short length stone embankment around where I87 is. But these are great proposals.
Instead of building transit in highway/expressway medians, we should shift the car lanes to fill most of the median and build the transit on one side of the right of way. This takes stations out of the median and improves walking access, at least on the side of the highway the transit line is on.
Or elevated as well.
Extending the F train is the easiest project worth the cost but I would like to see Coop City get served. My biggest peeve is that LGA and JFK have not been served by the most extensive rapid transit network in the country. If Denver, DC, and San Francisco can do it, what’s up, New York?
Coop city is getting a metro north train station
Yes!!! This is the best idea that came about!! I thought about this idea just a few weeks ago. Build a subway line under the parkway/expressway and build a subway line under the Grand Central Pkwy to serve La Guardia Airport, Northern Blvd, Main St/Kissena Blvd/Sutphin Blvd, Long Island Expressway to Little Neck Pkwy, and extended eastwards via Northern Blvd to Little Neck Pkwy. Finally a plan that I will definitely support.
Even with bus feeders, it is a bad idea, because buses are unpredictable and there capacity is much lower if a train is late.
My birthplace - Perth, Australia - used freeway medians for two (with a third currently under construction) of their train lines, and it works well because almost every station on those lines have a convenient bus interchange (some literally on top of or underneath the train platforms), and the bus routes in those areas are designed specifically as feeders.
However, Perth (as a city) isn't great with land use, and most stations have park-and-rides - with that being said, the stations in higher density areas are more pedestrian-friendly, and the stations in greenfield areas will usually have at least a shopping centre within walking distance.
It's great fun speeding along on the train while watching angry drivers stuck in traffic at peak hour.
We do now have the AirTrain above the median of the Van Wyck Expressway. No station there, but the line itself runs there, with stations at both ends of that run pretty close to the highway, though not in the median. That might be a good model to follow. There's also the Metro-North Hudson line, which closely parallels the Major Deegan Expressway (as well as, perhaps confusingly, the Harlem River), and has two stations alongside it (and once had more).
A Van Wyck Expressway Line could make sense. However, most people along the Van Wyck corridor actually take dollar cabs that run along Sutphin Blvd. to the E, J & Z trains at Sutphin/Archer station
Great timing on this one, was working on some fantasy map ideas and wondered how best to do stuff along LIE and Staten Island Expressway without running into the issues of designs that'd work against the ridership and density along such suggestions.
Edit:
- Thank you for using Google Maps more now for your diagrams! It's a notable improvement for both readability as well as internalizing landmarks along a proposed route in these videos versus BNS and its offshoots.
- The Staten Island dilemma is always so fascinating to me since it really forms the core of where things should go with designing transit for the city in the rapidly approaching future. NYC *needs* to use all its available space more elegantly and equitably and here's a whole borough that is just stuck out of place consistently when some common sense says even just a basic connection to 4th Ave Lines would be game changing. I would like to ask though after seeing your diagrams on things, do you think the SIE alignment isn't good enough even with CUNY College of Staten Island being one of SI's largest job centers/general destinations? In my maps, the extension along the expressway is less about the idea of going the full length of the expressway through the borough and moreso about linking to CUNY SI with the intent of possibly building out more connections to other things (a north-south line over Bayonne Bridge or a Victory Blvd station near Willowbrook) to truly enable the island to see faster routes to this as well as other connections off island. On this same note, how would you handle a line to Mall of Staten Island (and beyond) as that is also somewhat nearby and a decent enough destination?
- There was a point where I also had the idea for the subway moving along the initial portions of the SIE until Wagner College before going up Clove Road to then rejoin another proposed 59th St (Bklyn) - St. George - Forest Avenue line. I stepped away from it because I didn't want the services chosen (the deinterlined Broadway ( N ) & ( Q ) expresses) to have a double merge situation befall them but I'd love to hear any thinking you have on the viability of this. If this winds up being good, it changes my thoughts on handling SI expansion quite a bit.
Can you go more into depth with the cross bronx section ? I was thinking about using one side of Pelham parkway for a right of way then after southern go with median transit until Jerome , where its a trench and back to median transit. Then using landing road to cross the river and merge underground in this strange undeveloped piece of land between the yard and 207th street. I also have a different alignment in plan
Hey I have a question. I remember you did your IND and IRT ratings months ago and was wondering when or if you will ever do the BMT ratings?
Longer distance transit with limited stops at greater spacing might be a better use of highway medians generally. That would minimise the number of the less desirable median stations and make it more practical for a route to leave the median at some stations for a better site, It's difficult to make the areas around a median pleasantly walkable, and the platforms quieter. This also affects those transferring from parking lots and connecting bus stops. In NY that might mean new express tracks for subways or LIRR/MN with very limited median stops that join onto new sections of traditional subway or parts of existing lines to create new express service tiers.
The problem with your analysis is that you're assuming that transit can only be used to serve existing density, whereas thehistorical best use of transit has been to spark an increase in the density of an area. Up zoning some of these areas to allow mid rises and high rises, and discouraging single-family housing, could produce ridership in areas that currently have low density
First of all, what is wrong with building lines where it is the most effective, not where it is the least expensive?
And second of all, density is not the only problem with median highway lines. Median highway lines are extremely hostile and very few people want to live near a highway thanks to the elevated levels of noise and air pollution it brings.
These should be the stations on the LaGuardia AirTrain via Grand Central Parkway & Van Wyck Boulevard:
Ⓜ️ Terminal A
Ⓜ️ Terminal B
Ⓜ️ Terminal C
Ⓜ️ Forest Hills
Ⓜ️ Jamaica
Highways never should go inside cities. They should stop at the edge of the metro area, and go around them.
These roads can be replaces by a 2+2 lane arterial, and a tram/S-Bahn line
That means all trucks delivering goods are at street level and peds and bicyclists have to deal with them much more than they do with freeways. Everything you buy at every store, all food, etc., is delivered by truck. You would kill off downtowns of many cities without freeways since those in the suburbs will not use mass transit to get to them. Not worth it. I hate mass transit and riding with smelly slobs.
@@povertyspec9651 It's not an issue. These trucks are smaller than a bus. Although sometimes the trucks blocks a lane, which may cause issues in the city center.
But the situation overall is way better compared to a highway inside the city. Highways are tearing up the texture of the city, creating impassable barriers for pedestrians (and mostly for cyclists too). Highways decrease the quality level of life in cities. Those who can move buy houses in the suburb, starting an avalanche effect. Only the poor stays in the city center, and local businesses are closing. Many-many cities in the US is in this phase. Meanwhile cities in Europe (without highway through the city center) remained livable.
@@povertyspec9651No it does not, though this can be alleviated with ring roads around cities, something other municipalities can handle. Also, improved mass transit and general rail connections can be helpful too.
As a result, removing freeways will not kill off downtowns. In fact, when Rochester removed the Inner Loop freeway, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE was rejoicing. For all the other New Yorkers across the state, please don’t stop the freeway removals.
@@NapiRockAndRollDefinitely the right idea, and even Rochester is getting into it, removing the inner loop freeway.
Perhaps one can see some highways be replaced with HSR, with the HSRs traveling in the median of the interstates and once inside the city center, they replace the highways (generally).
That section of I-95 is called THE BRUCKNER EXPRESSWAY/NEW ENGLAND THRUWAY!!!!!.
I definitely want the 6 to be extended to Co-Op City Boulevard since that area is a transit dessert. But for this to happen, multiple things would need to happen.
1: We would need to convert Pelham Bay Park into an express station, as well as having it serve that new third track.
2: We would have 6 local trains end at Pelham Bay Park while the 6 express continues to Co-Op City.
3: We would need to build 2 new flyover tracks for 6 local trains to turn around.
4: As you said, the line would need to be built on the infamous I-95 corridor, also known as the Cross Bronx Expressway.
5: If necessary, we would also need to convert Westchester Square East Tremont Avenue into an express station just in case we need to store 6 trains at the Westchester Yard.
2 and 3 are unnecessary. Why cut local service ONE, I repeat ONE, stop? Run both local and express to Bay Plaza like both 7 local/express run to Flushing.
That section of I-95 is both near where the Bruckner Expressway ends and the New England Thruway begins. I-95 leaves the Cross Bronx at the Bruckner Interchange. I like the idea of extending the 6 trains (IRT Pelham Line) into Co-Op City, but I also like the idea of extending Bruckner Boulevard frontage roads there too.
That could be a good idea to extend the Bruckner frontage roads. As I said, there needs to be a subway line in Co-Op City and I think 6 trains are the perfect example of that.
As a person who lives in Perth, Western Australia. A city which has this type of passenger rail. I would suggest not doing it if possible and opt for options for greater integration. Though, in other cities without a public transport culture, I think it may be useful.
Cross Bronx Expressway would connect to the 4 line at Jerome Ave, 2 & 5 lines at Boston Road and 6 line at Parkchester 100 ft from White plains rd
7:26 I would send the E to the Rockaways via Valley Stream
They can actually run a train line down the belt parkway from the Verrazano bridge all the way through Queens and make a loop or somewhat of a loop and into that Belmont Park, the racetrack that was served so many Brooklyn and Queens people that live in transit deficit areas
Your elevated structure must resemble what interstate 678 has from where it meets Long Island Railroad down to JFK Airport. That would fit Interstate 495 and 95 well.
Lafayette Avenue in the Bronx was actually part of the Second Avenue subway Bronx Branch the 1920s version and for the Bruckner Expressway it has the bx5. Had my parents drive me down Fordham Road and one thing I can say about it it's very bumpy on a car and a bx12. If you make a cross Staten Island line how are you going to retrofit the Verrazano Bridge to carry train tracks
The Horace Harding is something I've wanted for a while. However I see it as not a median design but rather an elevated viaduct above the highway and with express tracks as well.
I should have made this more clear, that all of the lines here will be elevated, above ground, like the JFK AirTrain.
would you still think the penn station access project if the 6 was expanded to co op city??
Metro - City
Tramways and brt - peripheral suburbs
Commuter rail - larger sprawl
Peoplemover - neighborhood connector
IMO, the key to successful highway median stations is strong transfer support. in other words very frequent bus service. This is because the land value around highways is low, so the few blocks around them tend to be lower value and density, as compared to a short distance away. Excellent bicycle options (large bike garaages, easy bike rentals, good protected bike lanes) are also a big plus.
You can make an argument that building along the expressway would help eventually turning then in boulevard and increasing density along with.
Park being turned into a railyard….seems really unpopular
LIRR to Jones Beach via Meadowbrook Parkway. Probably not the median though--that wouldn't be possible. But using the same causeway with new bridges
I would start by running coach busses along the existing highways. Possible charging a subway fare instead of express buss fare. This could be done the fastest without any fancy infrastructure and would be less likely to be cancelled due to funding overruns compared to some of the other options. It would then provide a better idea of what ridership demand is before expanding into something bigger and better.
A Fordham Road / Pelham Bay Parkway Line definitely would be better than something along the Cross Bronx Expressway. At the very least it needs to be trackless trolley BRT because of the necessary tunnels, although light rail would be better and a subway would be best. I envision a tunnel though, under Fordham from Webster Avenue all the way west to the Washington Heights (8th Avenue Subway) Line. Because the east end of the line at the triangle formed by the Pelham Bay Parkway, the Hutchinson River Parkway, and the Bruckner Expressway (Route 95), I would have that line continue to or into Co-op City.
I already thought of that, as it should be the branch of the new IND 9th Avenue Line for express trains, while local trains run to Inwood-207th Street via Dyckman Street & Broadway. The (X) runs local to Inwood-207th Street, while the runs express to Pelham Bay Park. The (X) & should also connect to the BMT Rockaway Boulevard Elevated Line via the Williamsburg Bridge trackage & BMT Jamaica Elevated Line.
@@bennythepenny5831 I would love to see that on a map!
@@user-uo7fw5bo1o Thanks, I just subscribed! 😉
the actual problem is that we can't have nice things because ain't nobody got money for that
I have been saying for the longest time, extend the 6 train into Co-Op City! Now that they're extending the Metro North New Haven line and building a station in Co-Op City, it makes more sense now. I even said extend the D Train crosstown underneath either Gun Hill Road or Burke Avenue into Co-Op City as well. They have been talking about that for decades. So now if you have the D, the 6, and the Metro North in Co-Op City, you can have a big Transportation Hub there. Residents would be so much Happier. You will now have access to areas in The Bronx South and West into Manhattan!! Definitely a no-brainer to me!
Not sure if this has come up in past videos but Riverdale is almost completely cut off from the rest of the Bronx. There should b a shuttle train connection between the 2 train & the 1 train.
1:10 my neighborhood Rego Park looking NE.
Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) runs trains adjacent to freeways, but not along their medians.
All 5 boroughs of NYC are more densely populated than most US cities, so, Yes. NYC should and could build median lanes for mass transit on highways & expressways.
They are plenty of street that could entertain a rail line without using a highway. And the streets are wide enough that construction wouldn't have such a major impact. And it is closer to where people live.
The only way i see a rail line, if it was run by another authority. It would operate as a lower capacity line feedet to the subway, since not as many people would use it. But it would provide access to the people who really need it.
It would use smaller cars. And less cars per train. It would have much smaller stations. Because of this, construction cost would be significantly cheaper.
Some people call it light metro.
It will exist only in the highway medium. It fares would be zone based, as not to compete with the subway. But transfers would be a small fee as not to overwhelm the lower capacity of these line.
One suggestion was to take over the Cross Bronx or to share it medium. Than it can operate over the whitestone and throggs neck into Flushing. It can go to the airports if the momentum is there.
But it is an idea
Especially seeing how beneficial it can be in the Bronx from the GWB , 178 into Coop City.
I always thought extending the A train into the Bronx along Fordham Road/Pelham Pkwy is a great idea
The highway by Co-Op City is not the Cross Bronx Expressway. Its the New England Thruway
Where is this 145th street and Bronx Park. Never heard of that one before.
I recommend two services in the area where the LIE serves, two lines provides convenience in more transit options and back up to work around service disruptions
Sure you don’t want to bring the 6 up Co-Op city Boulevard?
Edit: It’s the best as it more directly serves areas adjacent to the mall and the houses. That would be a pretty good expansion because it can be the new terminus of the Pelham express while local trains can end at Pelham Bay Park. Pelham Bay Park should be expanded to allow us.
I instead propose the to City Island-Rochelle Street via Pelham Express, while the (6) terminates at Pelham Bay Park.
@@bennythepenny5831 Did you watch the video?
Co-Op City needs the subway more than City Island
@@collectivelyimprovingtrans2460 I already have the to Co-Op City via Concourse local, while the (K) terminates at Fordham Road.
Can barely hear you turn your audio up
turn your volume up lmao
@@cheef825nah but he speaks low
@@Itsatrap365 sure but there's literally no other sound in the video besides his voice. just turn it up. you need everything done for ya?
THANK YOU!!! I thought it was just me. Plus it mumbled throughout the video
@@cheef825volume at 100% and still can barely hear him.
Definetely need a rail line crossing parallel to the george washington bridge to the bus station in washington heights and meeting cbe.
I’d extend the F on Hillside Avenue from Forest hills to Mineola where you can add a transfer to LIRR.
With the way the Queens Blvd subway is built, having it built to Mineola would be too much of a stretch.
1:20 - JFK AirTran is built in a highway median. Does that count?
I feel as though some parts of eastern Queens are so underserved that you may as well consider them Long Island
You should actually connect the air train with both airports. Just like the Air train go down the Van wyck from JFK to Sutton boulevard. They should also have a go to LaGuardia also, that way you could transfer airports through the air train
It’s not like you fly into JFK but your connecting flight is out of LGA.
The pollutants from highways seem more like a margin of error compared to the surrounding areas simply due to population density itself.
No, the Staten Island Railway (SIR) does not run every fifteen minutes. Except for rush hours, the SIR runs every thirty minutes - double what you suggested. If you miss a train that might be have been a couple of minutes early, the next train might be late and the long wait can be challenging in bad weather; moreover, it may mean you miss the ferry you were going to take (those also run every thirty minutes except during rush hours).
City planners love high-rise apartments, for other people, but they don't live in them themselves. These structures are expensive to build and maintain and are not conducive to families with younger children. Generally only two or max three bedrooms and no family room. Playgrounds if any, are small and many stories below where you live. This is why is why families move out to the suburbs once they can afford, this has been made worse been made worse by forces that encourage developers to only build mcmansions rather than the Levittown homes that are cheaper to build and on smaller lots. The move out of the city proper has been made worse by the awful condition of city school systems that are educational failures while spending huge amounts per student. Transit is important but so are roads, roads are used by trucks, police, fire engines as well as cars.
I mean, the backwards AirTrain makes a tiny bit of sense. It can be post-security thanks to Citi Field.
The only way this could happen if some of the population could be build over the rail line over the highway. It would be around the station and provide the station with a usuable population. The only real peoblem would be for drivers. They would loose some lanes. And construction would cause even more delays for finishing the rail line. And i can't imagine years of delays for drivers.
TTA you should do a video on your reaction to RethinkNYC.
We need trains in places where there's no subway stop between one borough and the next. Brooklyn to Queens & vice versa the Bronx to Manhattan to the Bronx. Queens to Manhattan and vice versa, Queens to Staten Island, and vice versa. Brooklyn to Staten Island and vice versa. Let's propose a line along the Triborough Bridge/RFK bridge besides the only line on the N/W at Astoria Blvd. We need more trains but there's no one wanting to really work for money after the pandemic. Most of the people rather take drugs in NYC after the pandemic. In Germany, all bus routes are connected to their train line.
I think Horace Harding would be one of the best alternatives, and would serve Eastern Queens with a direct one-seat ride to Manhattan. As for the Astoria to LGA route, it's only three long blocks beyond the current terminal before the line would turn right towards LGA. Can the NIMBYism of three blocks of residents be overcome finally? It's embarrassing that NYC has no one-seat direct rail service to either of its airports, unlike most other major world capitals. I also agree with the E Train being extended along that LIRR route. I never understood why the LIRR has two parallel branches that run so close to each other. Can't one of those branches handle the current level of service via St. Albans? As for Coop City, they're going to build a new Metro North Station there on its eastern edge, so I'm less in favor of spending funds to extend the 6.
Horace Harding can be built a bit later. Instead, priority should go to extending the Queens Blvd Line along Hillside Avenue to Springfield Blvd and the Archer Avenue line to both Rosedale (upper levels via the LIRR Atlantic Branch takeover) and to 168th Street (lower levels via Archer Avenue) for Southeast Queens and the IRT Flushing Line extension via Northern Blvd for Northeast Queens. These would increase capacity on existing subway corridors and better serve each respective sector of eastern Queens.
With the momentum for a Rockaway Beach Branch reactivation to fill in a crucial gap in the network, a Horace Harding Line would have to wait until new subway capacity is found, unless you want trains to operate every 8 minutes, which is not ideal.
Also for the LIRR service, the St. Albans routing does have spare capacity to take on all LIRR service (current and future). An E train takeover of the line would also help improve service resilience in case of a service disturbance.
For Co-op City, a 6 train extension can still be built, given that the Metro-North project would serve a different market.
The trains should be underground in tunnels. There’s to much infrastructure in the way to build above ground.
The 6 doesn’t need to be on the highway. Baychester Ave works fine
Flatlands Avenue bk train line from gateway to coney island
Won’t that technically demolish some buildings though if we do that
It would be smart to implement those lines and slowly eradicate the highways but good luck trying that
So Fordham/pehlam parkway LRT why don’t we also send it to flushing Main Street or even LGA so people from the Bronx don’t have to go via the 2,D,4,5 or 6 trains and transfer at 42nd or 59th to get to LaGuardia
5:47 why is it a non-starter? It's completely possible. Additionally the elevated structure isn't that high.
13:25 Considering there are few if any urban highways that are not superfluous
why don't we instead of building median highway lines
just start converting them to sustainable corridors already?
(Perhaps with one low-capacity lane in each direction for cars,
a couple mid-capacity lanes for bikes and pedestrians,
one for high-capacity i e maybe a subway extension...
and whatever's left rezoned for some mixed use TOD,
in order to alleviate the housing crisis?)
Housing prices will go up under your plan. Density is correlated with higher rents.
@@jasonpoole2093
genuinely unsure on whether you're joking or not...😅
🇦🇺 🇳🇿 🇺🇸 🇨🇦, etc = sprawliest cities in the world, with the deepest housing crises
(just because they have dense [expensive] cores don't make cores the root problem, other countries not on the list above prove it's the lack of supply that got us here)
Not superfluous? LMAO Get real.
@@povertyspec9651
so which ones aren't?
@@povertyspec9651 So you’re saying that you’re the one who needs to get real?
WERE BACK
Another reason not to build the LGA branch, is the fact that the El train structure will interfere with the flight path for runway 4 at LGA, wich would limit LGA even further
BMT ASTORIA LINE N AND W TRAINS
Why was the airtrain to LaGuardia a bad Idea. ???
From Manhattan, the source of most trips, It would be slower than driving or taking a bus.
i chose co op city blvd for 6 train
You’re saying we shouldn’t build rapid transit in low density areas. Did you ever think that maybe rapid transit can make areas a little less sparse?
And FYI, Throggs Neck is to the EAST of Westchester Creek. No Bronxite in their right mind would ever refer to the area around Castle Hill Avenue and White Plains Road as Throggs Neck.
To your first point, have you watched the video? What is wrong with building transit where it is the most effective, not where it is the least expensive?
And to your second point, point taken.
@@techtransitassociation If we can’t bring rapid transit to the masses, then maybe we can bring the masses to rapid transit. As a St. John’s graduate, I am quite familiar with the Union Turnpike, LIE, and GCP corridors (so many people were packed onto the Q46 bus that you had to see it to believe it). While the first of the three may be the most dense, construction along the other two would require less hoops to jump through.
This is more cost effective Pomonok needs at least 1 subway line
Ask Chicago
Except for a few occasions having the Metro North or LIRR nearby doesn't really help the communities they're running through...unless you make them run at 10-15 min intervals all day, you shouldn't use the existence of one as a disqualification for having a subway line there
If you read what regional rail is, it means having trains run every 4 minutes on Metro North and reopening closed stops. No one is advocating 20 minute headways is a replacement for a subway.
Metro North and LIRR City Zones should also be integrated into the MTA fare system ($2.90, free transfer) if they're going to substitute the subway
@techtransitassociation the metro north and LIRR will never run like regional rail unless there is a shake up on the way MTA runs itself which isn't happening any time soon
@@Alexander-ru3qc It is still way more realistic than building a 3rd Ave subway under the Bronx. This plan assumes that a pro transit administration is elected, and if you think that is impossible, Garcia, who was the pro-transit candidate, lost only by 0.8 percent to Eric Adams. This is why I am following the 2025 NYC mayoral race heavily.
@techtransitassociation having a pro transit mayor only helps part of the problem with the MTA. Especially when the state seems to hold a lot of power over it....I agreed with a lot of the plans you mentioned I just don't have any confidence that Metro North, LIRR are going to run like a regional rail all of a sudden....if they do then my problem with them goes away
Extend the E along the LIRR to Rosedale. Light rail the Montauk branch of the LIRR from LIC to Jamaica. Reactivate the Rockaway Beach branch keeping it part of the LIRR to Howard Beach / JFK.
That’s exactly my idea, though it’s kinda better to just take over the whole ROW to do so, similar to what the MTA proposed in 1968. It’s also nothing different compared to the Rockaway Beach Branch.
Also no need for an LIRR supplement for the Rockaway Beach Branch. Not just yet. Maybe the AirTrain extension can do for now too, but we will see.
Taking over the ROW (while adding a 3rd or 4th track to the Montauk Branch to preserve LIRR capacity thru SE Queens) is likely the best option nowadays. The original '68 plan to buuld additional trackage alongside the LIRR tracks would be harder to do today as more houses have been built alongside the ROW. In some cases you'd have to take over people's backyards just to expand the right of way to 4 tracks.
Expanding the Montauk Branch, which is less hemmed in by houses/yards and actually passes by a number of warehouses (less people to piss off) would be a more palatable option today.
@@Netbook451It is the best option.
Got to think towards the future.Like the guy that hated transit.He ain't around anymore.So in 50 years that whole area can be changed due to transit.The human population keeps growing and space is always an issue.Lack of housing and connectivity can kill a neighborhood and area but good transit can make anywhere flourish.
Did you watch why highway median stations are a bad idea? It isn't just about density.
@techtransitassociation Yeah I watched the whole video and while the lines are good the highways shaped the neighborhood but still having the option can change the outlook in the future.There are states that have removed their highways to improve their neighborhoods and having a transit option can help with that process.Or build underground but we all know they wouldn't do it since it too expensive.
Fewer freeways = higher costs to businesses and thus, you. Longer delivery times. More fuel wasted. More trucks driving at grade and passing through at-grade intersections beside pedestrians and bicyclists. Fun fact: EVERYTHING you buy, ALL food, etc., is delivered by truck to the final destination. Rail has never delivered a single loaf of bread to your local grocery store. Rail has never delivered your sick grandma to the hospital either.
That’s not necessarily true as rail can replace MOST trucks and vehicles in general, combined with alternatives to trucks.
Umm no..what MTA should have done was create a beltway subway line that went to all the major landmarks of NY.
I think most people overestimate the number of passengers going to and from an airport. Also, airports love to tax people going to or from the airports. You'd think a train to the airport is a good idea, but the airports generally want $10 per passenger for this privilege. Airport rail becomes expensive.
I mean, O'Hare is one of the most used stations in the CTA network, not just because it is really convenient, but also, airport workers.
Constable Hook.
New York City could always use more transit. Everywhere . New lines can go from the bottom of Brooklyn, avoid Manhattan, and connect with other lines in the Bronx. Elevated costs four times as much as grade level, and underground costs 20 times as much. It makes better sense to go with elevated. Since there is no space in the medians of highways, they can build over them. A century ago cost was not a problem as much as it is today. If we could expand the subway now like we did back then, it would very much improve getting around the city. And since those highways separate neighborhood thanks to Robert Moses, subway lines over the highways could bridge those gaps and bring people back together again. They could also keep snow off the street below to save on manpower time, and rock salt. Just keep asking around: if money were no object, where should we build? Answer: everywhere there is people. We can also build it to be solar powered. No more excuses. Just do it.
Median highway lines are okay if you don’t have other options, but worse than other options if they’re available.
Highway medians are the best way to get around NIMBYs.
@@jaimerosado3896 Los Angeles is home to a highway train station so loud that it causes hearing damage if your ears are unprotected in under 5 minutes. It’s like 70 decibels. I’d like to avoid more of those here if at all possible - there’s a fight over expanding the Metro into South Bay via old abandoned freight right of way or highway right now
@@nickmhcQuestion: is the source of most of the noise the trains or the vehicular traffic?
@@jaimerosado3896 it’s the cars. Search “hostile transit infrastructure harbor freeway metro” for the video by metamodernism on how loud it is.
It’s better than nothing especially as a right of way for high speed rail and commuter rails, but it’s an awful option if anything else is available imo
If drivers whine about losing 2 lanes, there's more than enough room for an easy cut tunnel that would cost only slightly more than an elevated line.
They shouldn't lose any lanes. That doesn't mean a subway line shouldn't be built.
I think some of the expressways should be demolished and replaced subway lines
Its only logical